On October 10 2017 18:20 chrisolo wrote: Isn't Nony the North American Invite? If we only take North America, then who would be more deserving to get invited?
Michael? Sero? Ty2? An inactive DraW? Nyoken? For myself the only real contender is actually DraW, since he would have a serious shot at getting second place, if he came back and trained a lot. Other than that yes for me personally NonY is more appeasing than the other contenders. Not to take away something from the other guys I mentioned, but to see NonY back in business after his marvelous Courage Tournament run and the astonishing TSL2 win (fak you Tyler, why didn't you let Mondragon win :DD) is just a nice feeling. And to be fair NonY was the best protoss in the foreigner scene before the SC2 beta (and ClouD probably the second best, just to be complete).
Of course if this was an all american invite, then someone like Dandy or TerrOr would have deserved it more with their current form, but as I understood it, it was a North American Invite.
And judging by people like Draco, MaNa, Ret, NotForU etc. those ex-pro-foreigners can get back to form very quickly. I am sure NonY won't go out of the tournament without a fight.
Out of the players you named, Michael is the only one who's won a serious tournament in 2017. He also was one of the best foreign players during 2011-2014 and he had an a significant following when he was an active streamer. While I could also get behind a DraW invite, he isn't active on time for the event (though I hear he might be soon-ish).
I think Draco and Ret are good invites due to their frequent streaming and viewer count (hosting an invite tour, I would invite them).
As for NonY, ANYONE who has contributed to the scene in any way since 2010 would be a better invite in my opinion. He doesn't stream, play in events or interact with the BW community in any way. In that regard, I don't think he has a tremendous amount of public appeal. If you can't find another player to replace him, make it a qualifier or invite from somewhere else.
On October 09 2017 18:24 abuse wrote: Not surprised at all by the ClouD invite. I remember thinking it's a 100% guaranteed invite as soon as I checked the qualifiers and saw that cloud wasn't playing in any of them.
Nony was a surprise though. As much as I like the guy, he's gonna get smashed.
On October 10 2017 21:11 TheRealNeMu wrote: You are basically giving free money and paid holiday for the invites. I think alot more people atm are deserving of them and that includes everyone strugling in the qualifiers. I mean whats the point of playing and evolving in this game if current players are not rewarded for their efforts. Nony and Cloud aren't keeping starcraft alive... its players like eonzerg and bonyth etc... Let the best man win... not the most famous once upon a time played the game guy...(that means giving everyone the equal opportunity). Even i was making good decent money for a kid back in the day playing starcraft but that doesn't mean i deserve it now or expect to be sponsored again etc... You gotta earn it again if you want it thats how human life progresses.I'm telling you right now all the players who qualified to the playoffs and dont make top2(excluding myself i dont give a f...k)are gonna be most likely dissapointed. Just for the sake of the argument if you are gonna invite oldschool players who are "deserving" what is the criteria? If we are gonna choose who impacted more the game... well its a big debate. Lets always intive only boxer from Korea for 100years you know... just because he started to play the game before most of us lol ? This is just my two cents guys. Hope no one is offended.
The concept of deserving something can be twisted in a thousand ways.
You say people keeping Brood War scene alive before remastered came out deserve it more, and it makes a lot of sense. But what about tournament organizers, don't they deserve the most attention possible from the public? Do you think inviting Sziky would have the same result for them as inviting Nony? What does Blizzard deserve, having people who basically played Brood War for the love of it (which is great, I respect this a lot) or people who moved to their worse game and provided a lot of content for them and help them grow their fanbase by a lot? What does Starcraft deserve, the most possible attention from the public or making the very few people who kept watching foreign Brood War happier?
I'm not saying what's right or wrong, but what's worthy of deservedness greatly changes based on the point of view and the result you want to achieve. If I was a tournament organizer I would do exactly the same thing.
Anyway I could also say that whoever else is invited, Nony, and me to a lesser extent (even though I am very well known in Italy as I was the only progamer for strategy games) contributed to creating foreign eSports a thousand times more than the current Brood War top players. Am I shitting on them? No, I actually really respect their dedication and love for this beautiful game, but things are simply like this. I have said countless times in interviews when I was a SC2 progamer that Brood War is infinitely better, but if you truly wanted to be competitive your only choice was to switch games, and this did great things for eSports as a whole and lit a passion for many people for the RTS genre. People who might very well come and be part of Remastered community.
Anyway I'm actually probably losing quite a bit of money to come to this tournament (not working for two days for me is worse than taking the money given to participants) and I don't really need to do a vacation in Italy, but I will still be super excited to come because I love Starcraft. I really wanted to surpass my past self for this tournament, but unfortunately I couldn't train much because I was victim of a violent assault by two homeless people around the time I stopped streaming a couple months ago and they really hurt my right arm. I should be more or less fine right now and I will try my best to offer the best possible games I can. I hope that will be enough for most of you guys.
this is the exact reason i told the zotac guys to invite me as the guy who gives water to the casters or players,and just in case and accident happens to the player i can tke their place,look now clouds hand is useless after being attacked ,bros im here ready to the action
That's not entirely true, Eywa. NonY has streamed on Twitch for at least two days in the last week or so that I've seen. He's been laddering on the account iamtheprotoss which is currently 30-8 at 2129 MMR.
On October 10 2017 23:23 Sayle wrote: That's not entirely true, Eywa. NonY has streamed on Twitch for at least two days in the last week or so that I've seen. He's been laddering on the account iamtheprotoss which is currently 30-8 at 2129 MMR.
Oh, that's cool. If he's going to be an active streamer, I take it back. I just haven't seen his stream up whereas I've seen the others many many times.
The vast majority of my practice is off stream on a separate account. I streamed a few of my first sessions but now I'm practicing privately full time. My practice style isn't very streaming-friendly anyway. I take frequent breaks and I spend time studying replays and vods and I tinker on builds against AI. Even if some people want to watch that, the extra mental task of thinking about my stream being on is something I don't want to worry about. And of course I want to keep my abilities and builds secret.
I don't know what to say to anyone who hoped the invited players would do a lot of community interaction and content in addition to participating in the tournament. I'm going to prepare for the tournament and play my best. I don't feel like that is taking a free vacation and collecting some automatic prize money, even if I don't win a single map. I'm spending a lot of time and frankly a lot of mental anguish on this, as we all know how difficult it is to improve at BW. The trip itself will be pretty tightly scheduled, as I've got plans for the weekend immediately after the tournament. I'll be doing little else than flying in and resting, adjusting to the time zone, and focusing on playing well, and then flying out. People want to know what would happen if I practiced BW again, even if it's not quite long enough to get fully back to 100%, and you're going to find out.
On October 11 2017 02:28 NonY wrote: My practice style isn't very streaming-friendly anyway. I take frequent breaks and I spend time studying replays and vods and I tinker on builds against AI. Even if some people want to watch that, the extra mental task of thinking about my stream being on is something I don't want to worry about. And of course I want to keep my abilities and builds secret.
On October 11 2017 02:28 NonY wrote: The vast majority of my practice is off stream on a separate account. I streamed a few of my first sessions but now I'm practicing privately full time. My practice style isn't very streaming-friendly anyway. I take frequent breaks and I spend time studying replays and vods and I tinker on builds against AI. Even if some people want to watch that, the extra mental task of thinking about my stream being on is something I don't want to worry about. And of course I want to keep my abilities and builds secret.
I don't know what to say to anyone who hoped the invited players would do a lot of community interaction and content in addition to participating in the tournament. I'm going to prepare for the tournament and play my best. I don't feel like that is taking a free vacation and collecting some automatic prize money, even if I don't win a single map. I'm spending a lot of time and frankly a lot of mental anguish on this, as we all know how difficult it is to improve at BW. The trip itself will be pretty tightly scheduled, as I've got plans for the weekend immediately after the tournament. I'll be doing little else than flying in and resting, adjusting to the time zone, and focusing on playing well, and then flying out. People want to know what would happen if I practiced BW again, even if it's not quite long enough to get fully back to 100%, and you're going to find out.
Very well explained even though you don't owe an explanation to anyone. Since you're already practicing again, any chance we will see you in the Zotac cup tourney? That would be nice to watch.
On October 10 2017 21:11 TheRealNeMu wrote: You are basically giving free money and paid holiday for the invites. I think alot more people atm are deserving of them and that includes everyone strugling in the qualifiers. I mean whats the point of playing and evolving in this game if current players are not rewarded for their efforts. Nony and Cloud aren't keeping starcraft alive... its players like eonzerg and bonyth etc... Let the best man win... not the most famous once upon a time played the game guy...(that means giving everyone the equal opportunity). Even i was making good decent money for a kid back in the day playing starcraft but that doesn't mean i deserve it now or expect to be sponsored again etc... You gotta earn it again if you want it thats how human life progresses.I'm telling you right now all the players who qualified to the playoffs and dont make top2(excluding myself i dont give a f...k)are gonna be most likely dissapointed. Just for the sake of the argument if you are gonna invite oldschool players who are "deserving" what is the criteria? If we are gonna choose who impacted more the game... well its a big debate. Lets always intive only boxer from Korea for 100years you know... just because he started to play the game before most of us lol ? This is just my two cents guys. Hope no one is offended.
The concept of deserving something can be twisted in a thousand ways.
You say people keeping Brood War scene alive before remastered came out deserve it more, and it makes a lot of sense. But what about tournament organizers, don't they deserve the most attention possible from the public? Do you think inviting Sziky would have the same result for them as inviting Nony? What does Blizzard deserve, having people who basically played Brood War for the love of it (which is great, I respect this a lot) or people who moved to their worse game and provided a lot of content for them and help them grow their fanbase by a lot? What does Starcraft deserve, the most possible attention from the public or making the very few people who kept watching foreign Brood War happier?
I'm not saying what's right or wrong, but what's worthy of deservedness greatly changes based on the point of view and the result you want to achieve. If I was a tournament organizer I would do exactly the same thing.
Anyway I could also say that whoever else is invited, Nony, and me to a lesser extent (even though I am very well known in Italy as I was the only progamer for strategy games) contributed to creating foreign eSports a thousand times more than the current Brood War top players. Am I shitting on them? No, I actually really respect their dedication and love for this beautiful game, but things are simply like this. I have said countless times in interviews when I was a SC2 progamer that Brood War is infinitely better, but if you truly wanted to be competitive your only choice was to switch games, and this did great things for eSports as a whole and lit a passion for many people for the RTS genre. People who might very well come and be part of Remastered community.
Anyway I'm actually probably losing quite a bit of money to come to this tournament (not working for two days for me is worse than taking the money given to participants) and I don't really need to do a vacation in Italy, but I will still be super excited to come because I love Starcraft. I really wanted to surpass my past self for this tournament, but unfortunately I couldn't train much because I was victim of a violent assault by two homeless people around the time I stopped streaming a couple months ago and they really hurt my right arm. I should be more or less fine right now and I will try my best to offer the best possible games I can. I hope that will be enough for most of you guys.
On October 11 2017 02:28 NonY wrote: The vast majority of my practice is off stream on a separate account. I streamed a few of my first sessions but now I'm practicing privately full time. My practice style isn't very streaming-friendly anyway. I take frequent breaks and I spend time studying replays and vods and I tinker on builds against AI. Even if some people want to watch that, the extra mental task of thinking about my stream being on is something I don't want to worry about. And of course I want to keep my abilities and builds secret.
I don't know what to say to anyone who hoped the invited players would do a lot of community interaction and content in addition to participating in the tournament. I'm going to prepare for the tournament and play my best. I don't feel like that is taking a free vacation and collecting some automatic prize money, even if I don't win a single map. I'm spending a lot of time and frankly a lot of mental anguish on this, as we all know how difficult it is to improve at BW. The trip itself will be pretty tightly scheduled, as I've got plans for the weekend immediately after the tournament. I'll be doing little else than flying in and resting, adjusting to the time zone, and focusing on playing well, and then flying out. People want to know what would happen if I practiced BW again, even if it's not quite long enough to get fully back to 100%, and you're going to find out.
I think my initial argument was misunderstood here or others have put in arguments that i think don't make a lot of sense to follow through with.
I dind't raise the question of "who is more deserving" of a spot in this tournament as in invite for a good reason. It's a futile question and one where answers given will be taken negative by one side either way. Defining what somebody has achieved for this great game is a thing i can't do and i think neither can somebody else make such a judgement call.
Neither did i put in question if the invites are skilled enough to be invited. Of course Cloud and Nony have been inactive, but they are great players who'll give their best, so who knows?
But i raised the question how the spots should have been given, in my opinion, to foster the growth of competitive Starcraft and to reward players who have performed well in recent years. The only reliable metric to do so is to look at tournament results. I did that and looked at results for major tours, TLS mainly.
That's why i expressed my unhappiness with the invites we know and those we're likely to see next. This tournament is labeled as an open invitational not a show match. Thus i still lack understanding for invites that are based on fan following alone.
No offense to any invited player, since i personally am a big Nony fan and Cloud is a great guy. It just doesn't seem right to me.
On October 11 2017 02:28 NonY wrote: The vast majority of my practice is off stream on a separate account. I streamed a few of my first sessions but now I'm practicing privately full time. My practice style isn't very streaming-friendly anyway. I take frequent breaks and I spend time studying replays and vods and I tinker on builds against AI. Even if some people want to watch that, the extra mental task of thinking about my stream being on is something I don't want to worry about. And of course I want to keep my abilities and builds secret.
I don't know what to say to anyone who hoped the invited players would do a lot of community interaction and content in addition to participating in the tournament. I'm going to prepare for the tournament and play my best. I don't feel like that is taking a free vacation and collecting some automatic prize money, even if I don't win a single map. I'm spending a lot of time and frankly a lot of mental anguish on this, as we all know how difficult it is to improve at BW. The trip itself will be pretty tightly scheduled, as I've got plans for the weekend immediately after the tournament. I'll be doing little else than flying in and resting, adjusting to the time zone, and focusing on playing well, and then flying out. People want to know what would happen if I practiced BW again, even if it's not quite long enough to get fully back to 100%, and you're going to find out.
Thanks for clarifying your situation. Note, my remarks are nothing against your as a player. It's more directed at the event, your post basically solidifies my position on why I wouldn't have invited you. Don't get me wrong, I am glad that you're participating, I just would have liked to see you in qualifiers instead.
On October 11 2017 02:28 NonY wrote: The vast majority of my practice is off stream on a separate account. I streamed a few of my first sessions but now I'm practicing privately full time. My practice style isn't very streaming-friendly anyway. I take frequent breaks and I spend time studying replays and vods and I tinker on builds against AI. Even if some people want to watch that, the extra mental task of thinking about my stream being on is something I don't want to worry about. And of course I want to keep my abilities and builds secret.
I don't know what to say to anyone who hoped the invited players would do a lot of community interaction and content in addition to participating in the tournament. I'm going to prepare for the tournament and play my best. I don't feel like that is taking a free vacation and collecting some automatic prize money, even if I don't win a single map. I'm spending a lot of time and frankly a lot of mental anguish on this, as we all know how difficult it is to improve at BW. The trip itself will be pretty tightly scheduled, as I've got plans for the weekend immediately after the tournament. I'll be doing little else than flying in and resting, adjusting to the time zone, and focusing on playing well, and then flying out. People want to know what would happen if I practiced BW again, even if it's not quite long enough to get fully back to 100%, and you're going to find out.
Thanks for clarifying your situation. Note, my remarks are nothing against your as a player. It's more directed at the event, your post basically solidifies my position on why I wouldn't have invited you. Don't get me wrong, I am glad that you're participating, I just would have liked to see you in qualifiers instead.
On October 11 2017 02:28 NonY wrote: The vast majority of my practice is off stream on a separate account. I streamed a few of my first sessions but now I'm practicing privately full time. My practice style isn't very streaming-friendly anyway. I take frequent breaks and I spend time studying replays and vods and I tinker on builds against AI. Even if some people want to watch that, the extra mental task of thinking about my stream being on is something I don't want to worry about. And of course I want to keep my abilities and builds secret.
I don't know what to say to anyone who hoped the invited players would do a lot of community interaction and content in addition to participating in the tournament. I'm going to prepare for the tournament and play my best. I don't feel like that is taking a free vacation and collecting some automatic prize money, even if I don't win a single map. I'm spending a lot of time and frankly a lot of mental anguish on this, as we all know how difficult it is to improve at BW. The trip itself will be pretty tightly scheduled, as I've got plans for the weekend immediately after the tournament. I'll be doing little else than flying in and resting, adjusting to the time zone, and focusing on playing well, and then flying out. People want to know what would happen if I practiced BW again, even if it's not quite long enough to get fully back to 100%, and you're going to find out.
Thanks for clarifying your situation. Note, my remarks are nothing against your as a player. It's more directed at the event, your post basically solidifies my position on why I wouldn't have invited you. Don't get me wrong, I am glad that you're participating, I just would have liked to see you in qualifiers instead.
There were no US/NA qualifiers for this tourney.
I would have much rather seen a US qualifier over a US invite to be honest. I asked why there was an invite and not a qualifier in the first few pages of this thread, but didn't get a response.
On October 11 2017 02:28 NonY wrote: People want to know what would happen if I practiced BW again, even if it's not quite long enough to get fully back to 100%, and you're going to find out.
Oh. Shit.
No, it would never bother me that you don't stream or don't contribute. What matters to me is being able to see the conservative, iron fist that is NonY, smash nerds. It's been a while since I've seen NonY winning, respected and crushing people, I need that back in my life.
I couldn't be happier with the invite, best of luck everyone.
EPT
TLS
![[image loading]](https://scontent-mxp1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t31.0-8/22382058_10155873679804225_1237195273221753355_o.png?oh=d590b391a4b1f1ffacca2566e5f732ce&oe=5A80B9AA)
