StarCraft®: Remastered Italian Esports Open Invitational Eight of the best StarCraft players from past and present will battle on the Cathedral stage to determine the champion of the first Italian Esports Open and take home a share of the $16,000 USD prize pool!
Italian Esports Open is an international event that involves some of the best players from all over the world in a unique location: the Lucca's Esports Cathedral. The Esports Cathedral is a deconsecrated church (church of St.Romano), which has hosted various events in the past years, located in a unique and suggestive location.
A total of five players will be invited to compete, representing Italy, Europe, the United States and South Korea. An additional three competitors will earn access to the offline finals through open qualifiers for Italian and European players.
Who will participate
1 player from Italy, 2 players from Europe, 1 player from United States and 1 player from South Korea are going to be invited to the main event
1 player from Italy and 2 players from Europe are going to be qualified through Open Cups
Qualifiers:
During the course of the 4 Qualifiers, players will rank up and acquire points. The Top 8 by the end of the qualifiers will placed on the playoffs. The European Playoffs will seed 2 players into the main event, while the Italian Playoffs will seed 1 player. All travel and hotel expenses for the Lucca finalists will be fully covered by the organization.
This is great event, but why invite korean players, that makes the others pointless. Big foreign only tournaments will be of huge benefit to the scene. New players will start practice hard for the big prizes, with koreans no one would bother to jump on this.
On September 14 2017 05:26 _Animus_ wrote: This is great event, but why invite korean players, that makes the others pointless. Big foreign only tournaments will be of huge benefit to the scene. New players will start practice hard for the big prizes, with koreans no one would bother to jump on this.
There is still 1000$ difference between 2nd and 3rd. And at least $1000 + expenses paid for everyone who qualifies/gets invited. I am sure people will practice hard for this even if 1st seems out of reach.
i really appreciate the event but..... donating 1000$ each for inviting 5 players + paying their trips? who are the invited players? please change nostalgia and arcadia2, they are extremly outdated, everybody is vetoing them.
On September 14 2017 05:26 _Animus_ wrote: This is great event, but why invite korean players, that makes the others pointless. Big foreign only tournaments will be of huge benefit to the scene. New players will start practice hard for the big prizes, with koreans no one would bother to jump on this.
There is still 1000$ difference between 2nd and 3rd. And at least $1000 + expenses paid for everyone who qualifies/gets invited. I am sure people will practice hard for this even if 1st seems out of reach.
the first legitimate (ESL) big LAN event for BW in god knows how many years and people still try and find something to complain about
edit: my personal invite list would be
us - sero/ty2 europe - too many to choose from, biased me goes ret/draco italy - cloud? korea - scan (remember ASL is on at the same time)
as for map pool changes, my suggestions: Outsider -> Gold Rush New Bloody Ridge -> Crossing Field Arcadia 2 -> La Mancha Nostalgia -> Tau Cross Python -> Gladiator
yeah one of the bad things is the map pool i would remove Nostalgia, Arcadia2, also Outsider, and i would also take down FS because it's too overused, every player has already figure it out what to do in that map in every single way, so it makes things look boring. i would replace those maps with Eddy, Reap of the Storm, Kingdom of Clouds and Uzi Sara
On September 14 2017 05:26 _Animus_ wrote: This is great event, but why invite korean players, that makes the others pointless. Big foreign only tournaments will be of huge benefit to the scene. New players will start practice hard for the big prizes, with koreans no one would bother to jump on this.
There is still 1000$ difference between 2nd and 3rd. And at least $1000 + expenses paid for everyone who qualifies/gets invited. I am sure people will practice hard for this even if 1st seems out of reach.
the first legitimate (ESL) big LAN event for BW in god knows how many years and people still try and find something to complain about
edit: my personal invite list would be
us - sero/ty2 europe - too many to choose from, biased me goes ret/draco italy - cloud? korea - scan (remember ASL is on at the same time)
From the US i would invite Nyoken, he looks pretty good rigth now, from Korea, Savior, i know everyone love him
I honestly think from Europe Eonzerg should get an invite. He is by far one of the most active and best players from nowadays. Ofcourse legends like Draco should be considered but they have just reappeared on stage. I do not understand the tourney having a Korean. At this moment they are far superior then us. If remastered gains momentum and we non Kors have time to climb up the ladder and be on a more close level then ok... but as of now it would be landslide and we will all be playing for spot2 and down!
But as many have mentioned before: the plan to invite a korean seems to be flawed. If just won't produce good games when a korean dominates every game. Will there be at least a loser bracket? Otherwise it really seems a bit unfair and a lot will depend in bracket luck.
Also you should maybe swap nostalgia and arcadia. It's not I complain about unusual old maps. I think one gas play could really produce fun games. It's more about positional imbalances because the maps were made when mapmaking wasn't as advanced as nowadays.
How are you doing an invite only event when there's no EXISTING SCENE L M F A O. How do you justify any one invite over another when there's no competition.
Why throw money at an event like this. You could literally throw this money at a TSL 5 or something and actually get people playing again, not some obscure Italian offline event.
Italian eSports OPEN > over half the spots are invites.
Great Stuff.
OBVIOUSLY it's a really good thing to have offline events pop up and stuff again, and hopefully it becomes a trend, but how's no one appalled at how disconnected event organizers are from any reality whatsoever. They don't really give a shit about breathing life into BW (DESPITE THE FACT THAT, CLEARLY, THEY HAVE THE RESOURCES TO CONTRIBUTE TO IT), they're just gambling and hoping to get views off the (possibly no longer existent) SC:R hype.
I mean I don't get it, do they just look at the ladder mappool and shove it all in there? "Eh, I guess this is good enough." Game's been dead for over 7 year's? Let's just host an invitational, seems good. God forbid we incentivize competition. This isn't how you grow a scene guys but hey thanks for throwing the money at the game I guess : ))))
On September 14 2017 14:11 TheRealNeMu wrote: I honestly think from Europe Eonzerg should get an invite. He is by far one of the most active and best players from nowadays. Ofcourse legends like Draco should be considered but they have just reappeared on stage. I do not understand the tourney having a Korean. At this moment they are far superior then us. If remastered gains momentum and we non Kors have time to climb up the ladder and be on a more close level then ok... but as of now it would be landslide and we will all be playing for spot2 and down!
jaeh draco just reappeared but hes already better then the rest
On September 14 2017 15:46 .gypsy wrote: What's wrong with people?
Garbage map pool.
How are you doing an invite only event when there's no EXISTING SCENE L M F A O. How do you justify any one invite over another when there's no competition.
Why throw money at an event like this. You could literally throw this money at a TSL 5 or something and actually get people playing again, not some obscure Italian offline event.
Italian eSports OPEN > over half the spots are invites.
Great stuff.
how you justify crying about this great event ? tahts wa way better question why u bother invites i mean it doesnt affect you as u would never be able to qualify so there will be no difference in watching this
there are american events that are american only so lets be happy there is 1 american
Yeah I'm not sure about the whole invite thing. I mean it's great to secure some attention but from competition point of view there aren't really players that stick out in a way that they should be invited. Maybe after 2-3 events like that we can say who is currently the best non-kor player but it's too early to say. I would really like this to be 7-8 qualifiers with maybe that one korean participant as long as he is someone like lowest tier progamer that is very popular (nal_ra, boxer etc.)
how you justify crying about this great event ? tahts wa way better question why u bother invites i mean it doesnt affect you as u would never be able to qualify so there will be no difference in watching this
there are american events that are american only so lets be happy there is 1 american
how you justify crying about this great event ? tahts wa way better question why u bother invites i mean it doesnt affect you as u would never be able to qualify so there will be no difference in watching this
there are american events that are american only so lets be happy there is 1 american
how you justify crying about this great event ? tahts wa way better question why u bother invites i mean it doesnt affect you as u would never be able to qualify so there will be no difference in watching this
there are american events that are american only so lets be happy there is 1 american
On September 14 2017 14:11 TheRealNeMu wrote: I honestly think from Europe Eonzerg should get an invite. He is by far one of the most active and best players from nowadays. Ofcourse legends like Draco should be considered but they have just reappeared on stage. I do not understand the tourney having a Korean. At this moment they are far superior then us. If remastered gains momentum and we non Kors have time to climb up the ladder and be on a more close level then ok... but as of now it would be landslide and we will all be playing for spot2 and down!
jaeh draco just reappeared but hes already better then the rest
On September 14 2017 15:46 .gypsy wrote: What's wrong with people?
Garbage map pool.
How are you doing an invite only event when there's no EXISTING SCENE L M F A O. How do you justify any one invite over another when there's no competition.
Why throw money at an event like this. You could literally throw this money at a TSL 5 or something and actually get people playing again, not some obscure Italian offline event.
Italian eSports OPEN > over half the spots are invites.
Great stuff.
how you justify crying about this great event ? tahts wa way better question why u bother invites i mean it doesnt affect you as u would never be able to qualify so there will be no difference in watching this
there are american events that are american only so lets be happy there is 1 american
thats a pretty bm thing to say man. how do you know he wouldnt qualify? and there are american events? which ones? do any of them have a 16k prizepool?
On September 14 2017 22:57 Sinistro wrote: Regarding the maps, that listing is final and won't be subjected to change.
What a bad decision. The organizers have ever played broodwar before?, are they aware of the current BW metagame?, If they are, then they must want to have bad games in their event
On September 14 2017 07:55 GTR wrote: us - sero/ty2 europe - too many to choose from, biased me goes ret/draco italy - cloud? korea - scan (remember ASL is on at the same time)
as for map pool changes, my suggestions: Outsider -> Gold Rush New Bloody Ridge -> Crossing Field Arcadia 2 -> La Mancha Nostalgia -> Tau Cross Python -> Gladiator
Totally should change the maps!
But (unfortunately) I don't think inviting Scan is the right choice, he's too good for all other mentioned... It's possible that everyone else would feel like their fighting for 2nd place the whole time. One of the former pros could fit well.
If the Europe qualifiers are for europeans only I guess it will be better to not be required to play on turn rate 8 but higher as I understood 12 and 16 are significantly better for playing.
Everything is understandable, the split between invited players and qualified players, the right to choose to invite whoever organizers want to, but why the hell with another tournament noone cares about the players? I just cant understand it, why are we forced to play in 8 turn rate. Noone forces korean players to play in this sad latency... And why we have to play outdated maps, which are SUPER imbalanced nowadays?
On September 15 2017 01:41 Demurity wrote: I agree with trutaacz completely.
$16,000 is a significant amount to hold a tournament, but the response to players' voices is disheartening.
Somewhat disagree, the organizers are clearly just basing the map pool off of the Blizzard ladder, if players want to complain about the map pool, they should do so to Blizzard, not every tournament host that comes up. Like it or not, most (all) people hosting large events were not active in the Brood War community from 2010-2017, so it's kind of unrealistic to assume that they would come in with any other map pool than what Blizzard picked.
The only thing for me is that it should not be called "Open" when there are 3 QF spots of 8, but that's a minor aesthetic.
On September 15 2017 01:26 Trutaacz wrote: Everything is understandable, the split between invited players and qualified players, the right to choose to invite whoever organizers want to, but why the hell with another tournament noone cares about the players? I just cant understand it, why are we forced to play in 8 turn rate. Noone forces korean players to play in this sad latency... And why we have to play outdated maps, which are SUPER imbalanced nowadays?
Regarding Turn Rate:8 that's set as default, but if both players agree it's possible to set an higher value. We'll update the rules on the qualifiers page.
On the link above, don't change anything in the dropdown menus, just add a Subject and leave feedback/suggestion/questions on the text field. This way you can get a proper answer from the organization of the event.
On September 15 2017 01:41 Demurity wrote: I agree with trutaacz completely.
$16,000 is a significant amount to hold a tournament, but the response to players' voices is disheartening.
Somewhat disagree, the organizers are clearly just basing the map pool off of the Blizzard ladder, if players want to complain about the map pool, they should do so to Blizzard, not every tournament host that comes up. Like it or not, most (all) people hosting large events were not active in the Brood War community from 2010-2017, so it's kind of unrealistic to assume that they would come in with any other map pool than what Blizzard picked.
The only thing for me is that it should not be called "Open" when there are 3 QF spots of 8, but that's a minor aesthetic.
I understand your point. It's not so far-fetched to think that they could consider adjusting the map pool.
It's not that it's unfair, its just less ideal for the bw fans who would be the most interested in this event. I.e. It's not unfair to have an event organizer to set the rules and say, we want the best players... buttttt you need to ride a unicycle while you play.
I'm just a 3rd party spectator. I'm not here to argue, but it's interesting to see how these events go. I'll watch regardless.
HsDLTitich, ilovemmy, thanks for the answers. What happens in the event a certain player decides to exploit it in his favour as a terran can easily just refuse to play on turn rate higher than 8 to gain advantage over a zerg player while turn rate 12 or 16 are completely fine for both players?
On September 15 2017 02:38 LRM)TechnicS wrote: HsDLTitich, ilovemmy, thanks for the answers. What happens in the event a certain player decides to exploit it in his favour as a terran can easily just refuse to play on turn rate higher than 8 to gain advantage over a zerg player while turn rate 12 or 16 are completely fine for both players?
Hope that won't be the case during the tournament and everone will play fair to preserve the tournament sportmanship, however in particular cases an admin will have the last word on it.
On September 15 2017 02:38 LRM)TechnicS wrote: HsDLTitich, ilovemmy, thanks for the answers. What happens in the event a certain player decides to exploit it in his favour as a terran can easily just refuse to play on turn rate higher than 8 to gain advantage over a zerg player while turn rate 12 or 16 are completely fine for both players?
Hope that won't be the case during the tournament and everone will play fair to preserve the tournament sportmanship, however in particular cases an admin will have the last word on it.
Sounds more than reasonable, thanks for clarifying this.
A qualifier for North America would be cool, as it's hard to tell who the current top players in NA are. Many old players from the US and Canada have recently returned. If the flight cost isn't an issue, as one player from the US is getting invited either way, why not hold a qualifier to determine who the best player is and who should be invited?
On September 15 2017 03:21 EndingLife wrote: A qualifier for North America would be cool, as it's hard to tell who the current top players in NA are. Many old players from the US and Canada have recently returned. If the flight cost isn't an issue, as one player from the US is getting invited either way, why not hold a qualifier to determine who the best player is and who should be invited?
would be better an America's qualifier, currently the best players from the continent are from South America
On September 15 2017 01:41 Demurity wrote: I agree with trutaacz completely.
$16,000 is a significant amount to hold a tournament, but the response to players' voices is disheartening.
Somewhat disagree, the organizers are clearly just basing the map pool off of the Blizzard ladder, if players want to complain about the map pool, they should do so to Blizzard, not every tournament host that comes up. Like it or not, most (all) people hosting large events were not active in the Brood War community from 2010-2017, so it's kind of unrealistic to assume that they would come in with any other map pool than what Blizzard picked.
The only thing for me is that it should not be called "Open" when there are 3 QF spots of 8, but that's a minor aesthetic.
I understand your point. It's not so far-fetched to think that they could consider adjusting the map pool.
It's not that it's unfair, its just less ideal for the bw fans who would be the most interested in this event. I.e. It's not unfair to have an event organizer to set the rules and say, we want the best players... buttttt you need to ride a unicycle while you play.
I'm just a 3rd party spectator. I'm not here to argue, but it's interesting to see how these events go. I'll watch regardless.
So do you have to be Italian to play in the Italian quali or what? According to the residence it's for IT residents only. I guess the EU quali will be for all Europe though.
On September 18 2017 00:55 Jonoman92 wrote: So do you have to be Italian to play in the Italian quali or what? According to the residence it's for IT residents only. I guess the EU quali will be for all Europe though.
you are clicking in the wrong qual,there is one for italy and other for europe.
On September 18 2017 00:55 Jonoman92 wrote: So do you have to be Italian to play in the Italian quali or what? According to the residence it's for IT residents only. I guess the EU quali will be for all Europe though.
you are clicking in the wrong qual,there is one for italy and other for europe.
these are all the nationalities allowed in the european qualifier: ad, al, at, ba, be, bg, by, ch, cy, cz, de, dk, ee, es, fi, fo, fr, gi, gr, hr, hu, ie, is, li, lt, lu, lv, mc, md, me, mk, mt, nl, no, pl, pt, ro, rs, ru, se, si, sk, sm, tr, ua, uk, va, xk
they rly seems to not want any promotion for this tournament xD they have no cast in qualifiers, and they dont even allow draco to cast it ... i mean a former kespa pro casting ur games for free on english why would u ban that xD
In the original announcement post, there was a mention about players' travel expenses being paid for I think? That seems to have disappeared from the post now. Is that no longer being offered?
On September 18 2017 05:22 Sayle wrote: In the original announcement post, there was a mention about players' travel expenses being paid for I think? That seems to have disappeared from the post now. Is that no longer being offered?
That's a mistake editing the news, thanks for pointing this out. Qualified players for the main event will get all the travel and hotel expenses fully covered by ESL Italy.
On September 18 2017 07:06 Esp1noza wrote: It was one of the most interesting tournaments in terms of participants, and no cast Anyone knows why Ret didn't attend?
I'm going to take a wild guess and say he and Draco are the invites from Europe.
On September 18 2017 17:45 iD.BunDy wrote: i think such players as Trutacz, KenZy, Bonyth, Eonzerg (active these last years) deserve more the invitation than Draco or Ret.
I second this. Trutacz, KenZy, Bonyth, eonzerg, Dewalt, kogeT are players to consider for invites (sorry if I'm forgetting anyone) before the old schoolers. But again this is up to the organizers and I think there's a risk they'll invite fan favorites rather than the top players outside of korea.
but expect from eonzerg and sziky i dont see anyone of these even have slight chances from skill vs draco. hes back and active so it should nit count who was active before remaster but who is active now and who is the best also hes doing alot stream which is alos nice
On September 18 2017 17:45 iD.BunDy wrote: i think such players as Trutacz, KenZy, Bonyth, Eonzerg (active these last years) deserve more the invitation than Draco or Ret.
I guess there are few possible factors that could determine who may get such invitation: - Current skill - Achievments - Popularity/Recognition - Equal race distribution in the tournament - Targeting specific market (country)
I dont think that past activity it self matters anyhow.
On September 18 2017 17:45 iD.BunDy wrote: i think such players as Trutacz, KenZy, Bonyth, Eonzerg (active these last years) deserve more the invitation than Draco or Ret.
I second this. Trutacz, KenZy, Bonyth, eonzerg, Dewalt, kogeT are players to consider for invites (sorry if I'm forgetting anyone) before the old schoolers. But again this is up to the organizers and I think there's a risk they'll invite fan favorites rather than the top players outside of korea.
Sorry, but no one of them deserves invites, even if they have highest skill outside of korea, it is still very low. Only qualifiers should say who deserves it.
This is not totally about the skill, of course it counts, but i just said they "deserve more", for example it would be fairer to invite Scan from Korea than other Korean even if they are better. Eonzerg, Trutacz, Kenzy, Bonyth, Scan just did more for the community these last years.
On September 18 2017 20:47 iD.BunDy wrote: This is not totally about the skill, of course it counts, but i just said they "deserve more", for example it would be fairer to invite Scan from Korea than other Korean even if they are better. Eonzerg, Trutacz, Kenzy, Bonyth, Scan just did more for the community these last years.
What if the only reason ESL Italy is making this event if cuz ret draco nony and more old school players are back to remastered ? then we must be extremely grateful,anyone invite deserves it cuz the organisers decided it.Personally its my dream to play an offline event and its up to me getting further in quals to get it.We will see Well spx lets hope u dont face sziky in round 1 in every qual,otherwise i think u will think a bit different :D
that said,lets hope someone (BLIZZARD LOVE LETTER) one day think about the loyal players that keep training improving and make a f*cking event for us :D
On September 18 2017 16:03 Bonyth wrote: Draco said on his stream that he won't be able to attend the qualification's finals, so there is no point for him to participate in the 4 qualifiers.
Well, convenient that he doesn't have to if he's invited.
On September 18 2017 20:47 iD.BunDy wrote: This is not totally about the skill, of course it counts, but i just said they "deserve more", for example it would be fairer to invite Scan from Korea than other Korean even if they are better. Eonzerg, Trutacz, Kenzy, Bonyth, Scan just did more for the community these last years.
What if the only reason ESL Italy is making this event if cuz ret draco nony and more old school players are back to remastered ? then we must be extremely grateful,anyone invite deserves it cuz the organisers decided it.Personally its my dream to play an offline event and its up to me getting further in quals to get it.We will see Well spx lets hope u dont face sziky in round 1 in every qual,otherwise i think u will think a bit different :D
that said,lets hope someone (BLIZZARD LOVE LETTER) one day think about the loyal players that keep training improving and make a f*cking event for us :D
Well, yeah, the format doesn't make the most sense for qualifiers, you're a good example, because of your position in the bracket in the first qualifier, it could become very difficult for you to secure a spot.
On September 18 2017 17:45 iD.BunDy wrote: i think such players as Trutacz, KenZy, Bonyth, Eonzerg (active these last years) deserve more the invitation than Draco or Ret.
I second this. Trutacz, KenZy, Bonyth, eonzerg, Dewalt, kogeT are players to consider for invites (sorry if I'm forgetting anyone) before the old schoolers. But again this is up to the organizers and I think there's a risk they'll invite fan favorites rather than the top players outside of korea.
Sorry, but no one of them deserves invites, even if they have highest skill outside of korea, it is still very low. Only qualifiers should say who deserves it.
Well. Normally I would agree with you that no one deserves an invite, because I personally don't like invite-based tournaments. But now the rules clearly state that two european players will be invited, in that case, I think it's only fair that these two people should be picked based on highest individual skill (in terms of foreigners, they can't compare to koreans I know) not on merits from the past.
We've gotten approval from Blizzard so I will be casting the qualifier this Sunday! Given how big this event is, I will be adding a 3-minute delay on my stream to avoid any shenanigans.
On September 23 2017 01:26 Sayle wrote: We've gotten approval from Blizzard so I will be casting the qualifier this Sunday! Given how big this event is, I will be adding a 3-minute delay on my stream to avoid any shenanigans.
The more the merrier. What connection this tourney has with Blizzard?
On September 23 2017 01:26 Sayle wrote: We've gotten approval from Blizzard so I will be casting the qualifier this Sunday! Given how big this event is, I will be adding a 3-minute delay on my stream to avoid any shenanigans.
The more the merrier. What connection this tourney has with Blizzard?
Because the tournament is licensed by Blizzard Entertainment, to organize a tournament you need to get an approval first and you must follow the Blizzard Entertainment guidelines based on the type of license given to the tournament.
I have some issue with sign for the tour. I wanted change player name but cos of my mistake i changed my id bn account to a player name , and now i cant re-assign my previous bn account.
I receives the message: your account already exists.
I sent a request for support, but I would like a quick answer because I want to participate in today's tournament.
On September 24 2017 19:45 Predator_pl wrote: Dear admin,
I have some issue with sign for the tour. I wanted change player name but cos of my mistake i changed my id bn account to a player name , and now i cant re-assign my previous bn account.
I receives the message: your account already exists.
I sent a request for support, but I would like a quick answer because I want to participate in today's tournament.
Quick reminder, in less than 3 hours the 2nd qualifier begins.
Sign-ups are still open at the following link -> Subscribe here
Don't forget also to confirm your spot in the qualifier, check-in starts at 17:30 CEST. (In-case you are not able to check-in in time will not be possible to add a player to the bracket as soon the tournament starts)
If you wish to commentate and stream the qualifier please send your request here -> Community Stream
We are still looking for casters to provide a good coverage to the event.
NeV won again in the Italian Qualifier, gg! Also worth noting that Reynor at least tried but he got knocked out in the first round.
eonZerg and trutacz played a really exciting finals series for the European Qualifier, but in the end the polish player won! Also shoutout to our casters that made this cup much more enjoyable :D
sadly there are no good terrans from Europe Maybe its best to invite a funny random player <<<<< Nemu maybe idk... just was on the top of my head :D:D:D
On September 26 2017 03:08 TheRealNeMu wrote: sadly there are no good terrans from Europe Maybe its best to invite a funny random player <<<<< Nemu maybe idk... just was on the top of my head :D:D:D
Agreed about no good terrans from Europe. There are good TvZ players from Europe, but not many good terran players. I'm guessing Ret and Draco are the invites from Europe? What about the US invite? I'd say a lower tier, yet known player like incontrol gets invited.
There are a bunch of good European terrans, and just a few top notch, but I`m pretty sure the terran players overall are the busiest with life nowdays (or at least seems so).
I just wanted to say it feels so good to watch competitive foreign BW commented by Sayle. Somehow it reminds me of my university years when I was religiously watching TSL/TSL2.
can we fix that mappool ? today in my game vs dewalt i played in that fake bloody ridge,i dont even know from where u guys got it but i made a lurker in the top leftt expo and it got trap close to the minerals,i have no idea if dewalt did up the replays,but u can check it if he did. here is the real new bloody ridge
I have to say, as an admin, I would have ruled in favor of Bonyth, but what you guys did to TrutaCz by putting the decision to re or not on him was unacceptable. I think a lot of players would re even if they didn't want to and then it just builds animosity for no reason.
Also, you guys need to fix your policy for playing on bad maps... Either re-game or disqualify... How can a bad map be accepted for the set result? I've never seen that in any sponsored event before.
On October 02 2017 07:14 Eywa- wrote: I have to say, as an admin, I would have ruled in favor of Bonyth, but what you guys did to TrutaCz by putting the decision to re or not on him was unacceptable. I think a lot of players would re even if they didn't want to and then it just builds animosity for no reason.
Also, you guys need to fix your policy for playing on bad maps... Either re-game or disqualify... How can a bad map be accepted for the set result? I've never seen that in any sponsored event before.
If someone by mistake creates the wrong map and also the opponent doesn't notice, proceeding to start and finish the game I would take that as both of them accepted to play on that map. Considering valid the result.
- 1 DQ both of the players would be unfair.
- 2 This is not the first time thtat's happening, happened sometimes also in the past but mostly for SC2 tournaments. ESL started only recently to host StarCraft Remastered tournaments. And that always been the regulation regarding this matter.
However I agree with you that there's some inconsistency in the rules regarding this aspect and it will be fixed.
Also if you guys have any other feedback and / or suggestion to share you are more than welcome to do so.
if you check the vods of that link u will see there is a difference,i for example never did play that version we re using in the italian qual,i dont know if this version is a 2017 update from a foreigner mapmaker and non one did mention the changes or just a mistake from tl,in any case that map is different from the one used for years in tournaments and proleague.
On October 02 2017 07:14 Eywa- wrote: I have to say, as an admin, I would have ruled in favor of Bonyth, but what you guys did to TrutaCz by putting the decision to re or not on him was unacceptable. I think a lot of players would re even if they didn't want to and then it just builds animosity for no reason.
Also, you guys need to fix your policy for playing on bad maps... Either re-game or disqualify... How can a bad map be accepted for the set result? I've never seen that in any sponsored event before.
If someone by mistake creates the wrong map and also the opponent doesn't notice, proceeding to start and finish the game I would take that as both of them accepted to play on that map. Considering valid the result.
- 2 This is not the first time thtat's happening, happened sometimes also in the past but mostly for SC2 tournaments. ESL started only recently to host StarCraft Remastered tournaments. And that always been the regulation regarding this matter.
However I agree with you that there's some inconsistency in the rules regarding this aspect and it will be fixed.
Also if you guys have any other feedback and / or suggestion to share you are more than welcome to do so.
I'm sorry if I'm misunderstanding what you're trying to say...
It fair to assume that both players have checked the exact version of the map and therefore, they are considered to have agreed to play it
Yet, it's unfair to DQ both players for shared responsibility of playing an illegal map because they might not be aware that it's an illegal map?
On October 02 2017 07:14 Eywa- wrote: I have to say, as an admin, I would have ruled in favor of Bonyth, but what you guys did to TrutaCz by putting the decision to re or not on him was unacceptable. I think a lot of players would re even if they didn't want to and then it just builds animosity for no reason.
Also, you guys need to fix your policy for playing on bad maps... Either re-game or disqualify... How can a bad map be accepted for the set result? I've never seen that in any sponsored event before.
If someone by mistake creates the wrong map and also the opponent doesn't notice, proceeding to start and finish the game I would take that as both of them accepted to play on that map. Considering valid the result.
- 1 DQ both of the players would be unfair.
- 2 This is not the first time thtat's happening, happened sometimes also in the past but mostly for SC2 tournaments. ESL started only recently to host StarCraft Remastered tournaments. And that always been the regulation regarding this matter.
However I agree with you that there's some inconsistency in the rules regarding this aspect and it will be fixed.
Also if you guys have any other feedback and / or suggestion to share you are more than welcome to do so.
I'm sorry if I'm misunderstanding what you're trying to say...
It fair to assume that both players have checked the exact version of the map and therefore, they are considered to have agreed to play it
Yet, it's unfair to DQ both players for shared responsibility of playing an illegal map because they might not be aware that it's an illegal map?
Is that right?
Yes that's correct, any dispute should arise in the lobby and / or during the early stage of the game. Not after finishing the match. I think that would be unfair to DQ both of them for something that they didn't in purpose.
On October 02 2017 07:14 Eywa- wrote: I have to say, as an admin, I would have ruled in favor of Bonyth, but what you guys did to TrutaCz by putting the decision to re or not on him was unacceptable. I think a lot of players would re even if they didn't want to and then it just builds animosity for no reason.
Also, you guys need to fix your policy for playing on bad maps... Either re-game or disqualify... How can a bad map be accepted for the set result? I've never seen that in any sponsored event before.
If someone by mistake creates the wrong map and also the opponent doesn't notice, proceeding to start and finish the game I would take that as both of them accepted to play on that map. Considering valid the result.
- 1 DQ both of the players would be unfair.
- 2 This is not the first time thtat's happening, happened sometimes also in the past but mostly for SC2 tournaments. ESL started only recently to host StarCraft Remastered tournaments. And that always been the regulation regarding this matter.
However I agree with you that there's some inconsistency in the rules regarding this aspect and it will be fixed.
Also if you guys have any other feedback and / or suggestion to share you are more than welcome to do so.
I'm sorry if I'm misunderstanding what you're trying to say...
It fair to assume that both players have checked the exact version of the map and therefore, they are considered to have agreed to play it
Yet, it's unfair to DQ both players for shared responsibility of playing an illegal map because they might not be aware that it's an illegal map?
Is that right?
Yes that's correct, any dispute should arise in the lobby and / or during the early stage of the game. Not after finishing the match. I think that would be unfair to DQ both of them for something that they didn't in purpose.
Well, if it's viewed as a mistake, then it can't also be viewed as consent. That's the point I'm trying to make...
On October 02 2017 07:14 Eywa- wrote: I have to say, as an admin, I would have ruled in favor of Bonyth, but what you guys did to TrutaCz by putting the decision to re or not on him was unacceptable. I think a lot of players would re even if they didn't want to and then it just builds animosity for no reason.
Also, you guys need to fix your policy for playing on bad maps... Either re-game or disqualify... How can a bad map be accepted for the set result? I've never seen that in any sponsored event before.
If someone by mistake creates the wrong map and also the opponent doesn't notice, proceeding to start and finish the game I would take that as both of them accepted to play on that map. Considering valid the result.
- 1 DQ both of the players would be unfair.
- 2 This is not the first time thtat's happening, happened sometimes also in the past but mostly for SC2 tournaments. ESL started only recently to host StarCraft Remastered tournaments. And that always been the regulation regarding this matter.
However I agree with you that there's some inconsistency in the rules regarding this aspect and it will be fixed.
Also if you guys have any other feedback and / or suggestion to share you are more than welcome to do so.
I'm sorry if I'm misunderstanding what you're trying to say...
It fair to assume that both players have checked the exact version of the map and therefore, they are considered to have agreed to play it
Yet, it's unfair to DQ both players for shared responsibility of playing an illegal map because they might not be aware that it's an illegal map?
Is that right?
Yes that's correct, any dispute should arise in the lobby and / or during the early stage of the game. Not after finishing the match. I think that would be unfair to DQ both of them for something that they didn't in purpose.
Well, if it's viewed as a mistake, then it can't also be viewed as consent. That's the point I'm trying to make...
No admin can join every game before it starts and re-check every small detail. At some point the players are required to do that yourself. If no player involved realizes beforehand, it usually is a mistake by both, yet both agree to play the map, even if the consent is done out of ignorance: If one had a problem, he would have noticed (especially in the case of a map version that is indicated by the map name).
Cases like the one for tacz is rare and the admin has to call the shot. If anyone should be able to comment about it, it should be tacz, bonyth and the admins, not random bystanders.
On October 02 2017 07:14 Eywa- wrote: I have to say, as an admin, I would have ruled in favor of Bonyth, but what you guys did to TrutaCz by putting the decision to re or not on him was unacceptable. I think a lot of players would re even if they didn't want to and then it just builds animosity for no reason.
Also, you guys need to fix your policy for playing on bad maps... Either re-game or disqualify... How can a bad map be accepted for the set result? I've never seen that in any sponsored event before.
If someone by mistake creates the wrong map and also the opponent doesn't notice, proceeding to start and finish the game I would take that as both of them accepted to play on that map. Considering valid the result.
- 1 DQ both of the players would be unfair.
- 2 This is not the first time thtat's happening, happened sometimes also in the past but mostly for SC2 tournaments. ESL started only recently to host StarCraft Remastered tournaments. And that always been the regulation regarding this matter.
However I agree with you that there's some inconsistency in the rules regarding this aspect and it will be fixed.
Also if you guys have any other feedback and / or suggestion to share you are more than welcome to do so.
I'm sorry if I'm misunderstanding what you're trying to say...
It fair to assume that both players have checked the exact version of the map and therefore, they are considered to have agreed to play it
Yet, it's unfair to DQ both players for shared responsibility of playing an illegal map because they might not be aware that it's an illegal map?
Is that right?
Yes that's correct, any dispute should arise in the lobby and / or during the early stage of the game. Not after finishing the match. I think that would be unfair to DQ both of them for something that they didn't in purpose.
Well, if it's viewed as a mistake, then it can't also be viewed as consent. That's the point I'm trying to make...
No admin can join every game before it starts and re-check every small detail. At some point the players are required to do that yourself. If no player involved realizes beforehand, it usually is a mistake by both, yet both agree to play the map, even if the consent is done out of ignorance: If one had a problem, he would have noticed (especially in the case of a map version that is indicated by the map name).
Cases like the one for tacz is rare and the admin has to call the shot. If anyone should be able to comment about it, it should be tacz, bonyth and the admins, not random bystanders.
Given the discussions (or lack thereof) you've had with both players about the issue, you're the random bystander here. It's fine though, I've said what I have to say.
1) A bad map should never be counted as the result 2) The decision should never be put on the players
On October 04 2017 22:08 Liquid`Ret wrote: so cool that nony's gonna compete!
I was totally expecting IncontroL.
We need the good old who's who thread to come back so that we can check up on ClouD and Nony's ladder ranks. Top level players should get the reps checked when they run into a foreigner they don't know ;d.
On a side note, I fully expect the non-korean invites to finish 5-8. :-/
i really hope tournaments as good as this one will still happen from december onwards...... or else i will miss my chances again. because of work i cant take part here. gl hf to everybody who still tries to get in. may the best zerg win.
Hey guys today at 18 CEST we will have the last qualifier which means it's the last chance to grab points for the playoffs. Don't forget to signup ! Signup -> Here
Looking forward to streaming/casting some of the games tonight from the European Qualifier #4 on https://www.twitch.tv/RAPiDCasting . Not sure how to get my stream listed on TL under the event but I'll be there!
these invites are really bad and most likely those to come will be bad too.
NonY and ClouD are set, we are most likely going to see either Ret, Draco or MaNa for the two remaining spots in Europe.
What do this players have in common? They have a great following and are very prominent and have had no major tournament success in Broodwar since 2009. 2009
Either the organisation of this tournament is ignorant to the fact, that major events were played between 2010 and the SC:R Launch or they simply choose to go with invites that will generate more viewership. im fine with the second options in theory, but if you want to have the fan favourites, make a showmatch. Such a thing has no place in a major tournament, where invite spots should have been given on merit of good tour results that are not just outdated.
Invite trutaCz, eOnzErG, Dandy or Michael for NA/SA and a third european player in favor of the italy spot, let the community favourites play the qualifier. Would've been more fair in my opinion.
On October 08 2017 23:36 rapidtransit247 wrote: Looking forward to streaming/casting some of the games tonight from the European Qualifier #4 on https://www.twitch.tv/RAPiDCasting . Not sure how to get my stream listed on TL under the event but I'll be there!
On October 08 2017 23:36 rapidtransit247 wrote: Looking forward to streaming/casting some of the games tonight from the European Qualifier #4 on https://www.twitch.tv/RAPiDCasting . Not sure how to get my stream listed on TL under the event but I'll be there!
On October 09 2017 00:31 Cele wrote: these invites are really bad and most likely those to come will be bad too.
NonY and ClouD are set, we are most likely going to see either Ret, Draco or MaNa for the two remaining spots in Europe.
What do this players have in common? They have a great following and are very prominent and have had no major tournament success in Broodwar since 2009. 2009
Either the organisation of this tournament is ignorant to the fact, that major events were played between 2010 and the SC:R Launch or they simply choose to go with invites that will generate more viewership. im fine with the second options in theory, but if you want to have the fan favourites, make a showmatch. Such a thing has no place in a major tournament, where invite spots should have been given on merit of good tour results that are not just outdated.
Invite trutaCz, eOnzErG, Dandy or Michael for NA/SA and a third european player in favor of the italy spot, let the community favourites play the qualifier. Would've been more fair in my opinion.
That's your opinion. To me those invited players with a bit of practice can be easily the best foreigner even nowadays. Moreover Starcraft Remastered made many old players come back for the first time since SC2 was released, so it makes sense from a organizational point of view to invite the best players from that old era, since they appeal to a wider audience.
On October 09 2017 00:31 Cele wrote: these invites are really bad and most likely those to come will be bad too.
NonY and ClouD are set, we are most likely going to see either Ret, Draco or MaNa for the two remaining spots in Europe.
What do this players have in common? They have a great following and are very prominent and have had no major tournament success in Broodwar since 2009. 2009
Either the organisation of this tournament is ignorant to the fact, that major events were played between 2010 and the SC:R Launch or they simply choose to go with invites that will generate more viewership. im fine with the second options in theory, but if you want to have the fan favourites, make a showmatch. Such a thing has no place in a major tournament, where invite spots should have been given on merit of good tour results that are not just outdated.
Invite trutaCz, eOnzErG, Dandy or Michael for NA/SA and a third european player in favor of the italy spot, let the community favourites play the qualifier. Would've been more fair in my opinion.
That's your opinion. To me those invited players with a bit of practice can be easily the best foreigner even nowadays. Moreover Starcraft Remastered made many old players come back for the first time since SC2 was released, so it makes sense from a organizational point of view to invite the best players from that old era, since they appeal to a wider audience.
i didn't say the invited players don't stand a fair chance in this tournament. Obviously they still have the talent and game understanding. I was saying tournament invites should be based on recent results in major tours and not size of the TL fan club. It's understandable from an organizers PoV as you said, but the wrong approach for an open major tournament. Like i pointed out, that would fit for a show match type event much better.
It's a bit like WCG in the past where the WCG Korea qualifier was the most competitive part of the tournament and not the eventual world finals. I'd be happy to eat my words though
For the playoffs, is every round Bo3? Also, since top 2 qualify, there will be no grand finals right. Winner of WB-Finals + winner of LB RO 2b will advance to the LAN?
Guys If I'm not wrong this tournament will be casted at Lucca Comics so in addition to StarCraft you can have a good time with all the events and games while exploring an amazing medieval city (the walls are impressive) :D
On October 09 2017 06:21 Sayle wrote: For the playoffs, is every round Bo3? Also, since top 2 qualify, there will be no grand finals right. Winner of WB-Finals + winner of LB RO 2b will advance to the LAN?
BO3 with the two finals (winner and loser brackets) being BO5. And yes, the winners from these two matches advance to the LAN.
On October 09 2017 06:30 AntiHack wrote: Guys If I'm not wrong this tournament will be casted at Lucca Comics so in addition to StarCraft you can have a good time with all the events of and games while exploring an amazing medieval city (the walls are impressive) :D
They really are! Bear in mind this event will be inside Lucca Comics and Games, which is also the biggest comics and gaming convention in Europe.
On October 09 2017 06:21 Sayle wrote: For the playoffs, is every round Bo3? Also, since top 2 qualify, there will be no grand finals right. Winner of WB-Finals + winner of LB RO 2b will advance to the LAN?
BO3 with the two finals (winner and loser brackets) being BO5. And yes, the winners from these two matches advance to the LAN.
On October 09 2017 06:30 AntiHack wrote: Guys If I'm not wrong this tournament will be casted at Lucca Comics so in addition to StarCraft you can have a good time with all the events of and games while exploring an amazing medieval city (the walls are impressive) :D
They really are! Bear in mind this event will be inside Lucca Comics and Games, which is also the biggest comics and gaming convention in Europe.
The sad thing here is that EU qualifier will have a much higher level than the final 8 on the lan party (of course unless you invite Flash or other Korean pros but it doesn't prove anything I guess)
Not surprised at all by the ClouD invite. I remember thinking it's a 100% guaranteed invite as soon as I checked the qualifiers and saw that cloud wasn't playing in any of them.
Nony was a surprise though. As much as I like the guy, he's gonna get smashed.
On October 09 2017 00:31 Cele wrote: these invites are really bad and most likely those to come will be bad too.
NonY and ClouD are set, we are most likely going to see either Ret, Draco or MaNa for the two remaining spots in Europe.
What do this players have in common? They have a great following and are very prominent and have had no major tournament success in Broodwar since 2009. 2009
Either the organisation of this tournament is ignorant to the fact, that major events were played between 2010 and the SC:R Launch or they simply choose to go with invites that will generate more viewership. im fine with the second options in theory, but if you want to have the fan favourites, make a showmatch. Such a thing has no place in a major tournament, where invite spots should have been given on merit of good tour results that are not just outdated.
Invite trutaCz, eOnzErG, Dandy or Michael for NA/SA and a third european player in favor of the italy spot, let the community favourites play the qualifier. Would've been more fair in my opinion.
That's your opinion. To me those invited players with a bit of practice can be easily the best foreigner even nowadays. Moreover Starcraft Remastered made many old players come back for the first time since SC2 was released, so it makes sense from a organizational point of view to invite the best players from that old era, since they appeal to a wider audience.
i didn't say the invited players don't stand a fair chance in this tournament. Obviously they still have the talent and game understanding. I was saying tournament invites should be based on recent results in major tours and not size of the TL fan club. It's understandable from an organizers PoV as you said, but the wrong approach for an open major tournament. Like i pointed out, that would fit for a show match type event much better.
Invitational tournaments have more appeal to the public when you invite popular players and if I'm not mistaken this one also has open qualifiers. I have never seen an invite tournament outside Korea where all the best players have been invited.
On October 09 2017 00:31 Cele wrote: these invites are really bad and most likely those to come will be bad too.
NonY and ClouD are set, we are most likely going to see either Ret, Draco or MaNa for the two remaining spots in Europe.
What do this players have in common? They have a great following and are very prominent and have had no major tournament success in Broodwar since 2009. 2009
Either the organisation of this tournament is ignorant to the fact, that major events were played between 2010 and the SC:R Launch or they simply choose to go with invites that will generate more viewership. im fine with the second options in theory, but if you want to have the fan favourites, make a showmatch. Such a thing has no place in a major tournament, where invite spots should have been given on merit of good tour results that are not just outdated.
Invite trutaCz, eOnzErG, Dandy or Michael for NA/SA and a third european player in favor of the italy spot, let the community favourites play the qualifier. Would've been more fair in my opinion.
That's your opinion. To me those invited players with a bit of practice can be easily the best foreigner even nowadays. Moreover Starcraft Remastered made many old players come back for the first time since SC2 was released, so it makes sense from a organizational point of view to invite the best players from that old era, since they appeal to a wider audience.
i didn't say the invited players don't stand a fair chance in this tournament. Obviously they still have the talent and game understanding. I was saying tournament invites should be based on recent results in major tours and not size of the TL fan club. It's understandable from an organizers PoV as you said, but the wrong approach for an open major tournament. Like i pointed out, that would fit for a show match type event much better.
Invitational tournaments have more appeal to the public when you invite popular players and if I'm not mistaken this one also has open qualifiers. I have never seen an invite tournament outside Korea where all the best players have been invited.
On October 09 2017 00:31 Cele wrote: these invites are really bad and most likely those to come will be bad too.
NonY and ClouD are set, we are most likely going to see either Ret, Draco or MaNa for the two remaining spots in Europe.
What do this players have in common? They have a great following and are very prominent and have had no major tournament success in Broodwar since 2009. 2009
Either the organisation of this tournament is ignorant to the fact, that major events were played between 2010 and the SC:R Launch or they simply choose to go with invites that will generate more viewership. im fine with the second options in theory, but if you want to have the fan favourites, make a showmatch. Such a thing has no place in a major tournament, where invite spots should have been given on merit of good tour results that are not just outdated.
Invite trutaCz, eOnzErG, Dandy or Michael for NA/SA and a third european player in favor of the italy spot, let the community favourites play the qualifier. Would've been more fair in my opinion.
That's your opinion. To me those invited players with a bit of practice can be easily the best foreigner even nowadays. Moreover Starcraft Remastered made many old players come back for the first time since SC2 was released, so it makes sense from a organizational point of view to invite the best players from that old era, since they appeal to a wider audience.
i didn't say the invited players don't stand a fair chance in this tournament. Obviously they still have the talent and game understanding. I was saying tournament invites should be based on recent results in major tours and not size of the TL fan club. It's understandable from an organizers PoV as you said, but the wrong approach for an open major tournament. Like i pointed out, that would fit for a show match type event much better.
Invitational tournaments have more appeal to the public when you invite popular players and if I'm not mistaken this one also has open qualifiers. I have never seen an invite tournament outside Korea where all the best players have been invited.
the question is, would inviting, Nony for example, really appease more people than inviting someone who has actually been around for the last 5 years, and has been kicking ass. I highly doubt it.
Isn't Nony the North American Invite? If we only take North America, then who would be more deserving to get invited?
Michael? Sero? Ty2? An inactive DraW? Nyoken? For myself the only real contender is actually DraW, since he would have a serious shot at getting second place, if he came back and trained a lot. Other than that yes for me personally NonY is more appeasing than the other contenders. Not to take away something from the other guys I mentioned, but to see NonY back in business after his marvelous Courage Tournament run and the astonishing TSL2 win (fak you Tyler, why didn't you let Mondragon win :DD) is just a nice feeling. And to be fair NonY was the best protoss in the foreigner scene before the SC2 beta (and ClouD probably the second best, just to be complete).
Of course if this was an all american invite, then someone like Dandy or TerrOr would have deserved it more with their current form, but as I understood it, it was a North American Invite.
And judging by people like Draco, MaNa, Ret, NotForU etc. those ex-pro-foreigners can get back to form very quickly. I am sure NonY won't go out of the tournament without a fight.
On October 10 2017 18:20 chrisolo wrote: Isn't Nony the North American Invite? If we only take North America, then who would be more deserving to get invited?
Michael? Sero? Ty2? An inactive DraW? Nyoken?.
What kinda question is this. Obviously Ty2 is the best of them, including those ex-pros you mentioned.
You are basically giving free money and paid holiday for the invites. I think alot more people atm are deserving of them and that includes everyone strugling in the qualifiers. I mean whats the point of playing and evolving in this game if current players are not rewarded for their efforts. Nony and Cloud aren't keeping starcraft alive... its players like eonzerg and bonyth etc... Let the best man win... not the most famous once upon a time played the game guy...(that means giving everyone the equal opportunity). Even i was making good decent money for a kid back in the day playing starcraft but that doesn't mean i deserve it now or expect to be sponsored again etc... You gotta earn it again if you want it thats how human life progresses.I'm telling you right now all the players who qualified to the playoffs and dont make top2(excluding myself i dont give a f...k)are gonna be most likely dissapointed. Just for the sake of the argument if you are gonna invite oldschool players who are "deserving" what is the criteria? If we are gonna choose who impacted more the game... well its a big debate. Lets always intive only boxer from Korea for 100years you know... just because he started to play the game before most of us lol ? This is just my two cents guys. Hope no one is offended.
On October 10 2017 21:11 TheRealNeMu wrote: You are basically giving free money and paid holiday for the invites. I think alot more people atm are deserving of them and that includes everyone strugling in the qualifiers. I mean whats the point of playing and evolving in this game if current players are not rewarded for their efforts. Nony and Cloud aren't keeping starcraft alive... its players like eonzerg and bonyth etc... Let the best man win... not the most famous once upon a time played the game guy...(that means giving everyone the equal opportunity). Even i was making good decent money for a kid back in the day playing starcraft but that doesn't mean i deserve it now or expect to be sponsored again etc... You gotta earn it again if you want it thats how human life progresses.I'm telling you right now all the players who qualified to the playoffs and dont make top2(excluding myself i dont give a f...k)are gonna be most likely dissapointed. Just for the sake of the argument if you are gonna invite oldschool players who are "deserving" what is the criteria? If we are gonna choose who impacted more the game... well its a big debate. Lets always intive only boxer from Korea for 100years you know... just because he started to play the game before most of us lol ? This is just my two cents guys. Hope no one is offended.
The concept of deserving something can be twisted in a thousand ways.
You say people keeping Brood War scene alive before remastered came out deserve it more, and it makes a lot of sense. But what about tournament organizers, don't they deserve the most attention possible from the public? Do you think inviting Sziky would have the same result for them as inviting Nony? What does Blizzard deserve, having people who basically played Brood War for the love of it (which is great, I respect this a lot) or people who moved to their worse game and provided a lot of content for them and help them grow their fanbase by a lot? What does Starcraft deserve, the most possible attention from the public or making the very few people who kept watching foreign Brood War happier?
I'm not saying what's right or wrong, but what's worthy of deservedness greatly changes based on the point of view and the result you want to achieve. If I was a tournament organizer I would do exactly the same thing.
Anyway I could also say that whoever else is invited, Nony, and me to a lesser extent (even though I am very well known in Italy as I was the only progamer for strategy games) contributed to creating foreign eSports a thousand times more than the current Brood War top players. Am I shitting on them? No, I actually really respect their dedication and love for this beautiful game, but things are simply like this. I have said countless times in interviews when I was a SC2 progamer that Brood War is infinitely better, but if you truly wanted to be competitive your only choice was to switch games, and this did great things for eSports as a whole and lit a passion for many people for the RTS genre. People who might very well come and be part of Remastered community.
Anyway I'm actually probably losing quite a bit of money to come to this tournament (not working for two days for me is worse than taking the money given to participants) and I don't really need to do a vacation in Italy, but I will still be super excited to come because I love Starcraft. I really wanted to surpass my past self for this tournament, but unfortunately I couldn't train much because I was victim of a violent assault by two homeless people around the time I stopped streaming a couple months ago and they really hurt my right arm. I should be more or less fine right now and I will try my best to offer the best possible games I can. I hope that will be enough for most of you guys.
On October 10 2017 18:20 chrisolo wrote: Isn't Nony the North American Invite? If we only take North America, then who would be more deserving to get invited?
Michael? Sero? Ty2? An inactive DraW? Nyoken? For myself the only real contender is actually DraW, since he would have a serious shot at getting second place, if he came back and trained a lot. Other than that yes for me personally NonY is more appeasing than the other contenders. Not to take away something from the other guys I mentioned, but to see NonY back in business after his marvelous Courage Tournament run and the astonishing TSL2 win (fak you Tyler, why didn't you let Mondragon win :DD) is just a nice feeling. And to be fair NonY was the best protoss in the foreigner scene before the SC2 beta (and ClouD probably the second best, just to be complete).
Of course if this was an all american invite, then someone like Dandy or TerrOr would have deserved it more with their current form, but as I understood it, it was a North American Invite.
And judging by people like Draco, MaNa, Ret, NotForU etc. those ex-pro-foreigners can get back to form very quickly. I am sure NonY won't go out of the tournament without a fight.
Out of the players you named, Michael is the only one who's won a serious tournament in 2017. He also was one of the best foreign players during 2011-2014 and he had an a significant following when he was an active streamer. While I could also get behind a DraW invite, he isn't active on time for the event (though I hear he might be soon-ish).
I think Draco and Ret are good invites due to their frequent streaming and viewer count (hosting an invite tour, I would invite them).
As for NonY, ANYONE who has contributed to the scene in any way since 2010 would be a better invite in my opinion. He doesn't stream, play in events or interact with the BW community in any way. In that regard, I don't think he has a tremendous amount of public appeal. If you can't find another player to replace him, make it a qualifier or invite from somewhere else.
On October 09 2017 18:24 abuse wrote: Not surprised at all by the ClouD invite. I remember thinking it's a 100% guaranteed invite as soon as I checked the qualifiers and saw that cloud wasn't playing in any of them.
Nony was a surprise though. As much as I like the guy, he's gonna get smashed.
On October 10 2017 21:11 TheRealNeMu wrote: You are basically giving free money and paid holiday for the invites. I think alot more people atm are deserving of them and that includes everyone strugling in the qualifiers. I mean whats the point of playing and evolving in this game if current players are not rewarded for their efforts. Nony and Cloud aren't keeping starcraft alive... its players like eonzerg and bonyth etc... Let the best man win... not the most famous once upon a time played the game guy...(that means giving everyone the equal opportunity). Even i was making good decent money for a kid back in the day playing starcraft but that doesn't mean i deserve it now or expect to be sponsored again etc... You gotta earn it again if you want it thats how human life progresses.I'm telling you right now all the players who qualified to the playoffs and dont make top2(excluding myself i dont give a f...k)are gonna be most likely dissapointed. Just for the sake of the argument if you are gonna invite oldschool players who are "deserving" what is the criteria? If we are gonna choose who impacted more the game... well its a big debate. Lets always intive only boxer from Korea for 100years you know... just because he started to play the game before most of us lol ? This is just my two cents guys. Hope no one is offended.
The concept of deserving something can be twisted in a thousand ways.
You say people keeping Brood War scene alive before remastered came out deserve it more, and it makes a lot of sense. But what about tournament organizers, don't they deserve the most attention possible from the public? Do you think inviting Sziky would have the same result for them as inviting Nony? What does Blizzard deserve, having people who basically played Brood War for the love of it (which is great, I respect this a lot) or people who moved to their worse game and provided a lot of content for them and help them grow their fanbase by a lot? What does Starcraft deserve, the most possible attention from the public or making the very few people who kept watching foreign Brood War happier?
I'm not saying what's right or wrong, but what's worthy of deservedness greatly changes based on the point of view and the result you want to achieve. If I was a tournament organizer I would do exactly the same thing.
Anyway I could also say that whoever else is invited, Nony, and me to a lesser extent (even though I am very well known in Italy as I was the only progamer for strategy games) contributed to creating foreign eSports a thousand times more than the current Brood War top players. Am I shitting on them? No, I actually really respect their dedication and love for this beautiful game, but things are simply like this. I have said countless times in interviews when I was a SC2 progamer that Brood War is infinitely better, but if you truly wanted to be competitive your only choice was to switch games, and this did great things for eSports as a whole and lit a passion for many people for the RTS genre. People who might very well come and be part of Remastered community.
Anyway I'm actually probably losing quite a bit of money to come to this tournament (not working for two days for me is worse than taking the money given to participants) and I don't really need to do a vacation in Italy, but I will still be super excited to come because I love Starcraft. I really wanted to surpass my past self for this tournament, but unfortunately I couldn't train much because I was victim of a violent assault by two homeless people around the time I stopped streaming a couple months ago and they really hurt my right arm. I should be more or less fine right now and I will try my best to offer the best possible games I can. I hope that will be enough for most of you guys.
this is the exact reason i told the zotac guys to invite me as the guy who gives water to the casters or players,and just in case and accident happens to the player i can tke their place,look now clouds hand is useless after being attacked ,bros im here ready to the action
That's not entirely true, Eywa. NonY has streamed on Twitch for at least two days in the last week or so that I've seen. He's been laddering on the account iamtheprotoss which is currently 30-8 at 2129 MMR.
On October 10 2017 23:23 Sayle wrote: That's not entirely true, Eywa. NonY has streamed on Twitch for at least two days in the last week or so that I've seen. He's been laddering on the account iamtheprotoss which is currently 30-8 at 2129 MMR.
Oh, that's cool. If he's going to be an active streamer, I take it back. I just haven't seen his stream up whereas I've seen the others many many times.
The vast majority of my practice is off stream on a separate account. I streamed a few of my first sessions but now I'm practicing privately full time. My practice style isn't very streaming-friendly anyway. I take frequent breaks and I spend time studying replays and vods and I tinker on builds against AI. Even if some people want to watch that, the extra mental task of thinking about my stream being on is something I don't want to worry about. And of course I want to keep my abilities and builds secret.
I don't know what to say to anyone who hoped the invited players would do a lot of community interaction and content in addition to participating in the tournament. I'm going to prepare for the tournament and play my best. I don't feel like that is taking a free vacation and collecting some automatic prize money, even if I don't win a single map. I'm spending a lot of time and frankly a lot of mental anguish on this, as we all know how difficult it is to improve at BW. The trip itself will be pretty tightly scheduled, as I've got plans for the weekend immediately after the tournament. I'll be doing little else than flying in and resting, adjusting to the time zone, and focusing on playing well, and then flying out. People want to know what would happen if I practiced BW again, even if it's not quite long enough to get fully back to 100%, and you're going to find out.
On October 11 2017 02:28 NonY wrote: My practice style isn't very streaming-friendly anyway. I take frequent breaks and I spend time studying replays and vods and I tinker on builds against AI. Even if some people want to watch that, the extra mental task of thinking about my stream being on is something I don't want to worry about. And of course I want to keep my abilities and builds secret.
On October 11 2017 02:28 NonY wrote: The vast majority of my practice is off stream on a separate account. I streamed a few of my first sessions but now I'm practicing privately full time. My practice style isn't very streaming-friendly anyway. I take frequent breaks and I spend time studying replays and vods and I tinker on builds against AI. Even if some people want to watch that, the extra mental task of thinking about my stream being on is something I don't want to worry about. And of course I want to keep my abilities and builds secret.
I don't know what to say to anyone who hoped the invited players would do a lot of community interaction and content in addition to participating in the tournament. I'm going to prepare for the tournament and play my best. I don't feel like that is taking a free vacation and collecting some automatic prize money, even if I don't win a single map. I'm spending a lot of time and frankly a lot of mental anguish on this, as we all know how difficult it is to improve at BW. The trip itself will be pretty tightly scheduled, as I've got plans for the weekend immediately after the tournament. I'll be doing little else than flying in and resting, adjusting to the time zone, and focusing on playing well, and then flying out. People want to know what would happen if I practiced BW again, even if it's not quite long enough to get fully back to 100%, and you're going to find out.
Very well explained even though you don't owe an explanation to anyone. Since you're already practicing again, any chance we will see you in the Zotac cup tourney? That would be nice to watch.
On October 10 2017 21:11 TheRealNeMu wrote: You are basically giving free money and paid holiday for the invites. I think alot more people atm are deserving of them and that includes everyone strugling in the qualifiers. I mean whats the point of playing and evolving in this game if current players are not rewarded for their efforts. Nony and Cloud aren't keeping starcraft alive... its players like eonzerg and bonyth etc... Let the best man win... not the most famous once upon a time played the game guy...(that means giving everyone the equal opportunity). Even i was making good decent money for a kid back in the day playing starcraft but that doesn't mean i deserve it now or expect to be sponsored again etc... You gotta earn it again if you want it thats how human life progresses.I'm telling you right now all the players who qualified to the playoffs and dont make top2(excluding myself i dont give a f...k)are gonna be most likely dissapointed. Just for the sake of the argument if you are gonna invite oldschool players who are "deserving" what is the criteria? If we are gonna choose who impacted more the game... well its a big debate. Lets always intive only boxer from Korea for 100years you know... just because he started to play the game before most of us lol ? This is just my two cents guys. Hope no one is offended.
The concept of deserving something can be twisted in a thousand ways.
You say people keeping Brood War scene alive before remastered came out deserve it more, and it makes a lot of sense. But what about tournament organizers, don't they deserve the most attention possible from the public? Do you think inviting Sziky would have the same result for them as inviting Nony? What does Blizzard deserve, having people who basically played Brood War for the love of it (which is great, I respect this a lot) or people who moved to their worse game and provided a lot of content for them and help them grow their fanbase by a lot? What does Starcraft deserve, the most possible attention from the public or making the very few people who kept watching foreign Brood War happier?
I'm not saying what's right or wrong, but what's worthy of deservedness greatly changes based on the point of view and the result you want to achieve. If I was a tournament organizer I would do exactly the same thing.
Anyway I could also say that whoever else is invited, Nony, and me to a lesser extent (even though I am very well known in Italy as I was the only progamer for strategy games) contributed to creating foreign eSports a thousand times more than the current Brood War top players. Am I shitting on them? No, I actually really respect their dedication and love for this beautiful game, but things are simply like this. I have said countless times in interviews when I was a SC2 progamer that Brood War is infinitely better, but if you truly wanted to be competitive your only choice was to switch games, and this did great things for eSports as a whole and lit a passion for many people for the RTS genre. People who might very well come and be part of Remastered community.
Anyway I'm actually probably losing quite a bit of money to come to this tournament (not working for two days for me is worse than taking the money given to participants) and I don't really need to do a vacation in Italy, but I will still be super excited to come because I love Starcraft. I really wanted to surpass my past self for this tournament, but unfortunately I couldn't train much because I was victim of a violent assault by two homeless people around the time I stopped streaming a couple months ago and they really hurt my right arm. I should be more or less fine right now and I will try my best to offer the best possible games I can. I hope that will be enough for most of you guys.
On October 11 2017 02:28 NonY wrote: The vast majority of my practice is off stream on a separate account. I streamed a few of my first sessions but now I'm practicing privately full time. My practice style isn't very streaming-friendly anyway. I take frequent breaks and I spend time studying replays and vods and I tinker on builds against AI. Even if some people want to watch that, the extra mental task of thinking about my stream being on is something I don't want to worry about. And of course I want to keep my abilities and builds secret.
I don't know what to say to anyone who hoped the invited players would do a lot of community interaction and content in addition to participating in the tournament. I'm going to prepare for the tournament and play my best. I don't feel like that is taking a free vacation and collecting some automatic prize money, even if I don't win a single map. I'm spending a lot of time and frankly a lot of mental anguish on this, as we all know how difficult it is to improve at BW. The trip itself will be pretty tightly scheduled, as I've got plans for the weekend immediately after the tournament. I'll be doing little else than flying in and resting, adjusting to the time zone, and focusing on playing well, and then flying out. People want to know what would happen if I practiced BW again, even if it's not quite long enough to get fully back to 100%, and you're going to find out.
I think my initial argument was misunderstood here or others have put in arguments that i think don't make a lot of sense to follow through with.
I dind't raise the question of "who is more deserving" of a spot in this tournament as in invite for a good reason. It's a futile question and one where answers given will be taken negative by one side either way. Defining what somebody has achieved for this great game is a thing i can't do and i think neither can somebody else make such a judgement call.
Neither did i put in question if the invites are skilled enough to be invited. Of course Cloud and Nony have been inactive, but they are great players who'll give their best, so who knows?
But i raised the question how the spots should have been given, in my opinion, to foster the growth of competitive Starcraft and to reward players who have performed well in recent years. The only reliable metric to do so is to look at tournament results. I did that and looked at results for major tours, TLS mainly.
That's why i expressed my unhappiness with the invites we know and those we're likely to see next. This tournament is labeled as an open invitational not a show match. Thus i still lack understanding for invites that are based on fan following alone.
No offense to any invited player, since i personally am a big Nony fan and Cloud is a great guy. It just doesn't seem right to me.
On October 11 2017 02:28 NonY wrote: The vast majority of my practice is off stream on a separate account. I streamed a few of my first sessions but now I'm practicing privately full time. My practice style isn't very streaming-friendly anyway. I take frequent breaks and I spend time studying replays and vods and I tinker on builds against AI. Even if some people want to watch that, the extra mental task of thinking about my stream being on is something I don't want to worry about. And of course I want to keep my abilities and builds secret.
I don't know what to say to anyone who hoped the invited players would do a lot of community interaction and content in addition to participating in the tournament. I'm going to prepare for the tournament and play my best. I don't feel like that is taking a free vacation and collecting some automatic prize money, even if I don't win a single map. I'm spending a lot of time and frankly a lot of mental anguish on this, as we all know how difficult it is to improve at BW. The trip itself will be pretty tightly scheduled, as I've got plans for the weekend immediately after the tournament. I'll be doing little else than flying in and resting, adjusting to the time zone, and focusing on playing well, and then flying out. People want to know what would happen if I practiced BW again, even if it's not quite long enough to get fully back to 100%, and you're going to find out.
Thanks for clarifying your situation. Note, my remarks are nothing against your as a player. It's more directed at the event, your post basically solidifies my position on why I wouldn't have invited you. Don't get me wrong, I am glad that you're participating, I just would have liked to see you in qualifiers instead.
On October 11 2017 02:28 NonY wrote: The vast majority of my practice is off stream on a separate account. I streamed a few of my first sessions but now I'm practicing privately full time. My practice style isn't very streaming-friendly anyway. I take frequent breaks and I spend time studying replays and vods and I tinker on builds against AI. Even if some people want to watch that, the extra mental task of thinking about my stream being on is something I don't want to worry about. And of course I want to keep my abilities and builds secret.
I don't know what to say to anyone who hoped the invited players would do a lot of community interaction and content in addition to participating in the tournament. I'm going to prepare for the tournament and play my best. I don't feel like that is taking a free vacation and collecting some automatic prize money, even if I don't win a single map. I'm spending a lot of time and frankly a lot of mental anguish on this, as we all know how difficult it is to improve at BW. The trip itself will be pretty tightly scheduled, as I've got plans for the weekend immediately after the tournament. I'll be doing little else than flying in and resting, adjusting to the time zone, and focusing on playing well, and then flying out. People want to know what would happen if I practiced BW again, even if it's not quite long enough to get fully back to 100%, and you're going to find out.
Thanks for clarifying your situation. Note, my remarks are nothing against your as a player. It's more directed at the event, your post basically solidifies my position on why I wouldn't have invited you. Don't get me wrong, I am glad that you're participating, I just would have liked to see you in qualifiers instead.
On October 11 2017 02:28 NonY wrote: The vast majority of my practice is off stream on a separate account. I streamed a few of my first sessions but now I'm practicing privately full time. My practice style isn't very streaming-friendly anyway. I take frequent breaks and I spend time studying replays and vods and I tinker on builds against AI. Even if some people want to watch that, the extra mental task of thinking about my stream being on is something I don't want to worry about. And of course I want to keep my abilities and builds secret.
I don't know what to say to anyone who hoped the invited players would do a lot of community interaction and content in addition to participating in the tournament. I'm going to prepare for the tournament and play my best. I don't feel like that is taking a free vacation and collecting some automatic prize money, even if I don't win a single map. I'm spending a lot of time and frankly a lot of mental anguish on this, as we all know how difficult it is to improve at BW. The trip itself will be pretty tightly scheduled, as I've got plans for the weekend immediately after the tournament. I'll be doing little else than flying in and resting, adjusting to the time zone, and focusing on playing well, and then flying out. People want to know what would happen if I practiced BW again, even if it's not quite long enough to get fully back to 100%, and you're going to find out.
Thanks for clarifying your situation. Note, my remarks are nothing against your as a player. It's more directed at the event, your post basically solidifies my position on why I wouldn't have invited you. Don't get me wrong, I am glad that you're participating, I just would have liked to see you in qualifiers instead.
There were no US/NA qualifiers for this tourney.
I would have much rather seen a US qualifier over a US invite to be honest. I asked why there was an invite and not a qualifier in the first few pages of this thread, but didn't get a response.
On October 11 2017 02:28 NonY wrote: People want to know what would happen if I practiced BW again, even if it's not quite long enough to get fully back to 100%, and you're going to find out.
Oh. Shit.
No, it would never bother me that you don't stream or don't contribute. What matters to me is being able to see the conservative, iron fist that is NonY, smash nerds. It's been a while since I've seen NonY winning, respected and crushing people, I need that back in my life.
I couldn't be happier with the invite, best of luck everyone.
On October 12 2017 21:36 ppp87 wrote: So only 2 of the current top foreigners will be able to take part in the finals in Italy. Great tournament though but surely something went wrong.
They did state that there would be 1 player from Italy, and 2 players from Europe who would qualify through qualifiers. Unless the other top foreigners got invited, which seemed highly unlikely, there would only be 2 top foreigners playing in the finals either way. This tourney obviously isn't catered to the current best foreigners, as there were only 2 Europe qualifiers. Since I asked this earlier and have yet to receive an answer, why invite a US player instead of holding a qualifier?
Well incontrol and nony both have such higher marketing value than other players. Nony was also a great player back in the time so there is possibility that he might recover his skill
still it's saddening to see no response whatsoever from ESL regarding the debate going on here.i like Morrow and Draco, but it strikes me as the same decision. Players got invited for past glory, not for recent tournament wins or dominant play in foreigner tours.
On October 13 2017 01:21 Trutaacz wrote: Well incontrol and nony both have such higher marketing value than other players. Nony was also a great player back in the time so there is possibility that he might recover his skill
I would have understood if you of all people would be unhappy this decision. You should have gotten an invite for certain i think. But you don't seem to bother about it?
On October 13 2017 01:40 elKa-ThE-FeArEd wrote: Actually i really like the idea with the older pro's being invited, meaning more older players will probably watch
Hopefully the other organizers will jump onboard the train and add more tournaments which is open for everyone in the future.
Although it would be cool to see some tournament with 50% old invites / 50% newschooler invites.
Now i only miss Mondragon, Eriador and blackman / androide
On October 13 2017 01:32 Cele wrote: still it's saddening to see no response whatsoever from ESL regarding the debate going on here.i like Morrow and Draco, but it strikes me as the same decision. Players got invited for past glory, not for recent tournament wins or dominant play in foreigner tours.
On October 13 2017 01:21 Trutaacz wrote: Well incontrol and nony both have such higher marketing value than other players. Nony was also a great player back in the time so there is possibility that he might recover his skill
I would have understood if you of all people would be unhappy this decision. You should have gotten an invite for certain i think. But you don't seem to bother about it?
Sure, but there is nothing i can do. I don't have any marketing value besides that i am good player. It hurts if u were carrying somehow the game when it was in really bad condition, but lets face the reality and just accept what organizers want to do.
On October 13 2017 01:40 elKa-ThE-FeArEd wrote: Actually i really like the idea with the older pro's being invited, meaning more older players will probably watch
Hopefully the other organizers will jump onboard the train and add more tournaments which is open for everyone in the future.
Although it would be cool to see some tournament with 50% old invites / 50% newschooler invites.
Now i only miss Mondragon, Eriador and blackman / androide
well actually i prefer to watch soulkey or larva rather then [NC]YellOw or Savior. Much better play, much more exciting games
On October 13 2017 01:32 Cele wrote: still it's saddening to see no response whatsoever from ESL regarding the debate going on here.i like Morrow and Draco, but it strikes me as the same decision. Players got invited for past glory, not for recent tournament wins or dominant play in foreigner tours.
On October 13 2017 01:21 Trutaacz wrote: Well incontrol and nony both have such higher marketing value than other players. Nony was also a great player back in the time so there is possibility that he might recover his skill
I would have understood if you of all people would be unhappy this decision. You should have gotten an invite for certain i think. But you don't seem to bother about it?
To be honest, I think a non-response from the organizer in this case is the best scenario. There's no way that they can explain their choices that will appease people who aren't happy about it. It's best for them to let the games speak for themselves.
I think whatever 2 players emerge from the european qualifier can beat FBH. Hope the invites really show up, almost everybody has a legit chance if they apply themselves their hardest. :p
On October 14 2017 00:44 Liquid`Drone wrote: I think whatever 2 players emerge from the european qualifier can beat FBH. Hope the invites really show up, almost everybody has a legit chance if they apply themselves their hardest. :p
On October 14 2017 00:44 Liquid`Drone wrote: I think whatever 2 players emerge from the european qualifier can beat FBH. Hope the invites really show up, almost everybody has a legit chance if they apply themselves their hardest. :p
Firebathero is one of the ajae that's still VERY strong. I don't think he can't be beaten, but even a 2009' NonY or current Bonyth/Trutacz/Eon is going to be a major underdog.
On October 14 2017 00:44 Liquid`Drone wrote: I think whatever 2 players emerge from the european qualifier can beat FBH. Hope the invites really show up, almost everybody has a legit chance if they apply themselves their hardest. :p
u didnt see the foreigners vs ajae looks like.
I did! And like sure he's a favorite but I think bonyth can beat him like 30% of the time, and while it's probably harder for the zergs, the rest of you aren't far behind, especially not if you guys prepare some tailored builds. Which everybody should do, seeing as this type of shot isn't gonna come around too often.
On October 14 2017 00:44 Liquid`Drone wrote: I think whatever 2 players emerge from the european qualifier can beat FBH. Hope the invites really show up, almost everybody has a legit chance if they apply themselves their hardest. :p
u didnt see the foreigners vs ajae looks like.
I did! And like sure he's a favorite but I think bonyth can beat him like 30% of the time, and while it's probably harder for the zergs, the rest of you aren't far behind, especially not if you guys prepare some tailored builds. Which everybody should do, seeing as this type of shot isn't gonna come around too often.
TBH, if you're going to spend time preparing tailored builds, it's best to do it for the foreigners to guarantee a higher placement. The odds of winning 2nd are much higher, if you spend all your time preparing for FBH by build order advantage and you get eliminated by a foreigner Zerg it's going to feel pretty bad.
On October 14 2017 00:44 Liquid`Drone wrote: I think whatever 2 players emerge from the european qualifier can beat FBH. Hope the invites really show up, almost everybody has a legit chance if they apply themselves their hardest. :p
Firebathero is one of the ajae that's still VERY strong. I don't think he can't be beaten, but even a 2009' NonY or current Bonyth/Trutacz/Eon is going to be a major underdog.
On October 14 2017 00:44 Liquid`Drone wrote: I think whatever 2 players emerge from the european qualifier can beat FBH. Hope the invites really show up, almost everybody has a legit chance if they apply themselves their hardest. :p
Firebathero is one of the ajae that's still VERY strong. I don't think he can't be beaten, but even a 2009' NonY or current Bonyth/Trutacz/Eon is going to be a major underdog.
You haven't seen 2017 NonY yet.
Damn this is gonna be so amazing!!! All my childhood heroes are coming back and kicking ass!
On October 14 2017 00:44 Liquid`Drone wrote: I think whatever 2 players emerge from the european qualifier can beat FBH. Hope the invites really show up, almost everybody has a legit chance if they apply themselves their hardest. :p
Firebathero is one of the ajae that's still VERY strong. I don't think he can't be beaten, but even a 2009' NonY or current Bonyth/Trutacz/Eon is going to be a major underdog.
Glad to see a Korean invited who is not an auto tournament winner. I could definitely see people take games off fbh. Really pumped to see nony play again, too. But why would you ever hold a tournament on a Wednesday+Thursday? I certainly won't be able to watch any of it live. Tournaments are supposed to be on weekends, you know?
On October 15 2017 23:10 Lorch wrote: Glad to see a Korean invited who is not an auto tournament winner. I could definitely see people take games off fbh. Really pumped to see nony play again, too. But why would you ever hold a tournament on a Wednesday+Thursday? I certainly won't be able to watch any of it live. Tournaments are supposed to be on weekends, you know?
Because Blizzcon is happening on Saturday and Sunday
No Sziky, TrutacZ, eOn, or Bonyth. Grats to those who made it through, but that's really quite surprising. I'd have assumed that at least one or two of those guys would have shown up and been able to make it through, even if number of spots were tight.
Well I know who ISN'T going to win, the one without a liquipedia entry who made it through the easy Italian qualifier
kind of funny anyone thinks some foreigner can win a progamer like firebathero.the champion is already known and the second place will depends who faces firebathero early on.
Well I know who ISN'T going to win, the one without a liquipedia entry who made it through the easy Italian qualifier
kind of funny anyone thinks some foreigner can win a progamer like firebathero.the champion is already known and the second place will depends who faces firebathero early on.
Usually I'm a fan of letting Korean players in, especially when there is double elimination or the like, but it does feel a little wierd for this tournament. Anybody on FBH side of the bracket is definitely the unlucky draw.
I won't go so far as to say Firebathero won't win, but he is certainly a HUGE favorite. I can see him losing if someone brought their peak game and had some good prepared builds.
I'd be relatively okay with it if they used the Chinese rule, where you have to offrace at least every other game (or even all games). Progamers offrace is usually good, but not win one series out of a thousand good.
Looking at the given situation, FBH is and always will be the favorite to win this thing, but there's only one Zerg in the tournament and quite a few protosses. Three of those protosses (I don't know about Dewalt, but he's been posting promising results) already have a history of being able to take down Korean terrans, Draco took out Midas in Midas prime in WCG.
Now, I know the argument, Draco, Nony and Cloud are all "old timers" and we can't possibly know their current form. But their history show that they are all very capable, on a good day, to take out someone like FBH in a bo3. Especially considering FBH is notoriously known for being horrible in TvP. So yeah, I'll go with being carefully optimistic about this one. There's definitely a chance that FBH goes out to a foreing protoss at least.
On October 16 2017 15:59 Bonyth wrote: i don't agree with the statement above. Granted, he is the favourite, but starcraft shows that favourites to win don't actually always win.
firebathero is not in the list of favourites.is other term that my poor english doesnt let me give a very specific description.anyway you must be really blind to not see it.scan destroyed the foreigner scene.scan is very far from firebathero.i remember we play iccup final ifu vs iwl and firebathero was part of the iwl team and scan was partvof ifu.at the time firebathero was inactive and he still smashed scan.we were all in shock and very surprised how good and the difference of skill.
I agree with eonzerg, most people doesn't seem to realize the size of the skill gap. fbh can't be beaten by a foreigner, there is 0% chance it will happen. I also hope both russians players will be able to go to Italy, visa problems are so common especially for russian residents.
On October 16 2017 15:59 Bonyth wrote: i don't agree with the statement above. Granted, he is the favourite, but starcraft shows that favourites to win don't actually always win.
firebathero is not in the list of favourites.is other term that my poor english doesnt let me give a very specific description.anyway you must be really blind to not see it.scan destroyed the foreigner scene.scan is very far from firebathero.i remember we play iccup final ifu vs iwl and firebathero was part of the iwl team and scan was partvof ifu.at the time firebathero was inactive and he still smashed scan.we were all in shock and very surprised how good and the difference of skill.
Same race match up is always the easiest match up to recover skills. ZvZ hasn't changed anything for like more than 10 years. Same for TvT and PvP.
I don't think it's right to compare only one specific match up "TvT" to differentiate how strong i was and how strong firebathero was in 2013 or 14. Meta has somewhat changed, I also improved more on TvT(It's my weakest). Also, firebathero is a known player who was a monster at TvZ and TvT in KeSPA Scene. Memorable TvT match from firebathero is fbh vs flash on Neo Medusa. Proleague Ace match up I believe.
In addition, NaDa is like a 2nd generation dominant after Boxer, and he won against Last many times and ahead of score in this year. Will you say that NaDa is better than Last? Probably not a lot of people would say in that way.
Sometimes I'm surprised with those somewhat non-sense comparison from TL comments lol. Way too different thoughts from KR
On October 16 2017 17:49 ppp87 wrote: I agree with eonzerg, most people doesn't seem to realize the size of the skill gap. fbh can't be beaten by a foreigner, there is 0% chance it will happen. I also hope both russians players will be able to go to Italy, visa problems are so common especially for russian residents.
Luckily for this event, Russians have 1% of rejections on Schenghen visa (that's extremely little compared to visas to other countries, including US, Australia, UK etc). So i think its going to be fine, if its requested in time.
I have to agree to Bonyth. Yes it is very likely that FBH will just cruise through this tour with ease, but there is potential that he loses. Draco, Nony, NotforU and Dewalt all have the chance to beat FBH, even if it is very small. Would I need to bet on a winner of this tour, I would definitly bet all my money on FBH. Still this does not mean he is invincible and I believe in the aforementioned players to give FBH a run for his money, if not even beat him once or twice. Out of all the ASL participants this season, FBH was certainly one of the weakest and in my oppinion Scan might be even better than FBH (sure Scan hasn't qualified, but comparising the raw skill he is still better IMO) and still sometimes Scan is beaten by foreigners.
I believe that this will be a good tournament and in the end eOn will probably be right about the fact that the foreigner will play out the second place, but it will be a nice tournament nevertheless.
While Scan beats foreigners 98% of the time (stats from foreigners elo rank page) it's pretty cocky to say his raw skill is superior to fbh. The guy has one of the most insane pro background, had pro level training for years, can handle any kind pressure, knows everything about the game and constantly training with top players. It gives an idea about how dead amateur foreigners are.
I knew you would call me out for it. You might have a better rating of their skills, hence I wrote a bolded "IMO" behind it and still you do it. That is kind of lame, but whatever. If you really think that FBH can't lose at all, that says it all. There were even upsets in past WCG tournaments where foreigners were getting wins against the top koreans. Sure it was a rarity, but at least one upset happend pretty much every WCG tournament. Draco-Midas, Mondragon-Savior, A2-Jaedong, just to name a few and quite frankly FBH is nowhere near Midas, Savior and JD respectively in their time. To be fair the foreigners probably are also a lot weaker.
Again if you might read my posting, you would actually recognize that I actually agree with you that FBH will probably cruise through that tournament, but you make it sound like it would be the eigth world wonder if FBH lost a game at that tournament, which is just not true.
I think there is an innate problem with comparing WCG upsets to this one here.
Theory: There were upsets in WCG, therefore there could be an upset in this ESL
Supporting points:
- FBH is weaker than the Koreans from WCG
Counter points:
- The foreigners are also weaker
- This tour is likely worth more (dollar wise) to FBH than WCG was to the top level Koreans
- There are fewer events for FBH to focus on, he can actually spend a couple hours to see what might be coming his way
- Since 2004, only 2 foreigners have eliminated Koreans from WCG, those were Androide (TvT) and PJ (PvZ)
I'm not saying it's impossible, just unlikely. The only chance is if Foreigners train a ton and FBH takes for granted that he's going to win (who knows... Maybe?)
I guess the invites have one significant advantage compared to the regular BW players and that is time to practice. If I am not mistaken, they are all streamers, so they basically can practice 24/7 for 2 weeks to prepare for 3 games vs FBH.
On October 19 2017 02:31 HsDLTitich wrote: Finals map pool: Tau Cross, Fighting Spirit, Gladiator, Crossing Field, Gold Rush, Neo Jade, Outsider
If I can give you my opinion about it and I think most will agree with me: it's way too much maps for a tournament, it's definitely not standard at all to have 7 maps and it will be very hard for the players to train all match-ups on all of these. Standard is 4 to 5 maps.
On October 19 2017 02:31 HsDLTitich wrote: Finals map pool: Tau Cross, Fighting Spirit, Gladiator, Crossing Field, Gold Rush, Neo Jade, Outsider
Can you confirm this with the players please? I just mentioned it to NonY on stream and he seemed to be under the impression that Nostalgia and Arcadia are still in the map pool and that the maps would not be changed from the qualifier stage.
On October 19 2017 02:31 HsDLTitich wrote: Finals map pool: Tau Cross, Fighting Spirit, Gladiator, Crossing Field, Gold Rush, Neo Jade, Outsider
You might want to message all of the players directly about the new map pool as they aren't necessarily keeping up to date with the thread.
Players should receive an email tomorrow with all the details (including the map pool). I just wanted to make sure people here knew asap about the change re maps because I guess they're still training on the wrong maps...
IMO it is very very very dumb you guys invited FBH. It's like SC2 mentality that Koreans and Foreign players should coexist, and then Koreans dominate everything because they are better. I won't even follow this tournament because of the denseness of Firebathero getting invited. Feel free to quote me after he easily wins here.
zzzz would have appreciated a little more notice. Never heard of (1) qualifier maps and finals maps being different and (2) announcing finals maps less than 2 weeks before.
I agree with NonY. Changing the map pool 10 days before the tournament is something I can hardly undurstand. Expecially if you consider the fact that more than half of those are modern maps. I'm not sure if the organizers realize how long it takes to prepare for a single map in StarCraft 1. This is not StarCraft 2.
It's also strange that there are 7 maps in the map pool when we obviously will not play any bo7 matches.
definitely agree that the map pool should be cut down to 4. 7 is way too many for a bw tournament, especially when half of them are going to be veto'd and never played anyway.
keep FS and outsider as they were used in the qualifiers imo the last two should be circuit breaker (as it was a qualifier map as well) and new bloody ridge (only 2p map used in qualifiers)
not the greatest pool but should be considered out of fairness for everyone
edit: also not a fan of straight up bo7 grand finals. too long. i suggest either bo5 reset or bo7 with 1 game advantage to winners finalist.
Circuit Breaker, Tau Cross, New Bloody Ridge, Gladiator and Neo Jade.
That's a diverse map pool full of maps the players should already know and it gives you a 5 map pool finals/the ability to veto 2 maps to find the Bo3.
I've been head admin of tournament section at PGTour.net and head admin of PGTour.net later on and I've never experienced map pool change after qualifiers - this is simply a thing you don't do, especially when you deal with 16k prize pool tournament.
There are 7 maps, only 3 widely known and 2 available on blizzard ladder - when most of the action happen. 4 new maps equals 12 matchups to learn within 10-12 days - with 0 availability of them on blizzard ladder - how you guys think it is possible to play 50 (at least) matches in each matchup on each map to prepare? People now play only ladder and those maps are not there.
I would suggest you dear organizers to limit numbers of maps to 5 (FS, Tau Cross, Outsider + Neo Jade, Circuit Breakers) and also final as BO7 is questionable - average game at this level is 25-30 minutes - final can take almost 4 hours - it is simply not responsible and boring for the audience and the players. It is not possible to play 3-4 hours with full focus when prize is 5k$.
On October 19 2017 23:36 Zany_pl wrote: I've been head admin of tournament section at PGTour.net and head admin of PGTour.net later on and I've never experienced map pool change after qualifiers - this is simply a thing you don't do, especially when you deal with 16k prize pool tournament.
There are 7 maps, only 3 widely known and 2 available on blizzard ladder - when most of the action happen. 4 new maps equals 12 matchups to learn within 10-12 days - with 0 availability of them on blizzard ladder - how you guys think it is possible to play 50 (at least) matches in each matchup on each map to prepare? People now play only ladder and those maps are not there.
I would suggest you dear organizers to limit numbers of maps to 5 (FS, Tau Cross, Outsider + Neo Jade, Circuit Breakers) and also final as BO7 is questionable - average game at this level is 25-30 minutes - final can take almost 4 hours - it is simply not responsible and boring for the audience and the players. It is not possible to play 3-4 hours with full focus when prize is 5k$.
Zany, SC Fan :-)
To be fair (to the Bo7), part of tournament success is also endurance. If you look to other esports for comparison, dota 2 for instance is 30+ minutes and the LB team at TI has to play a Bo3 followed by a Bo5. Sure, the game doesn't require as much constant clicking and focus, but it does require a certain spontaneous quickness and mental discipline both of which tend to fade off during a long match.
The main argument against a Bo7 shouldn't be the length, but the comeback potential. It's far lower than a Bo5 and the better player is far more likely to win... Making it generally less exciting to watch.
On October 19 2017 23:36 Zany_pl wrote: I've been head admin of tournament section at PGTour.net and head admin of PGTour.net later on and I've never experienced map pool change after qualifiers - this is simply a thing you don't do, especially when you deal with 16k prize pool tournament.
There are 7 maps, only 3 widely known and 2 available on blizzard ladder - when most of the action happen. 4 new maps equals 12 matchups to learn within 10-12 days - with 0 availability of them on blizzard ladder - how you guys think it is possible to play 50 (at least) matches in each matchup on each map to prepare? People now play only ladder and those maps are not there.
I would suggest you dear organizers to limit numbers of maps to 5 (FS, Tau Cross, Outsider + Neo Jade, Circuit Breakers) and also final as BO7 is questionable - average game at this level is 25-30 minutes - final can take almost 4 hours - it is simply not responsible and boring for the audience and the players. It is not possible to play 3-4 hours with full focus when prize is 5k$.
Zany, SC Fan :-)
Scientifically that's actually the max amount of time you can have full focus
On October 19 2017 23:36 Zany_pl wrote: I've been head admin of tournament section at PGTour.net and head admin of PGTour.net later on and I've never experienced map pool change after qualifiers - this is simply a thing you don't do, especially when you deal with 16k prize pool tournament.
There are 7 maps, only 3 widely known and 2 available on blizzard ladder - when most of the action happen. 4 new maps equals 12 matchups to learn within 10-12 days - with 0 availability of them on blizzard ladder - how you guys think it is possible to play 50 (at least) matches in each matchup on each map to prepare? People now play only ladder and those maps are not there.
I would suggest you dear organizers to limit numbers of maps to 5 (FS, Tau Cross, Outsider + Neo Jade, Circuit Breakers) and also final as BO7 is questionable - average game at this level is 25-30 minutes - final can take almost 4 hours - it is simply not responsible and boring for the audience and the players. It is not possible to play 3-4 hours with full focus when prize is 5k$.
Zany, SC Fan :-)
Scientifically that's actually the max amount of time you can have full focus
Yeah, you are very right my friend, but this is two day event. Day one is group play, day two is de bracket I suppose, so before that there will couple hours of intense play anyway ;-)
its aint porfessional to change mappool that late still glad see draco and nony in it as they are my 2 favorite players (but strangly not enough zergs in this)
On October 23 2017 13:51 MymSlorm wrote: I have a very important question, when is the Lan tourny going to be played?. i couldn't find the date in the thread
Wow that looks like a dream draw for Notforu. Also that's a pretty hardcore number of games. I'm really excited to see how the players do in the live setting, especially Morrow and NonY who I have no idea how their form is.
On October 27 2017 02:37 nurle wrote: Morrow's invite is honestly shocking. Still can't get my head wrapped around it
Maybe they wanted to prolong the tour or something by inviting a player who never attacks and has an average game length of 1 hour.
Wasnt Morrow like a really talented BW player back before the switch to SC2? I remember him getting to second place on the TSL 2 ladder only behind Idra even though he was fairly new then. But i dont really know, i think Brat_OK would have been a better choice as a terran invite since he used to be a top terran for quite some time and is still quite known for his BW past. On those grounds he would have deserved it more. As long as we are going with inviting the "new-old" players.
I dont know about Morrow's style or anything. I wish him the best of luck and wont say no to more foreign terrans either.
Anyone know where to find Gold Rush and Crossing Field to download? I have not had any luck finding them and haven't received a map pack from the tournament director.
On October 28 2017 11:08 NonY wrote: Anyone know where to find Gold Rush and Crossing Field to download? I have not had any luck finding them and haven't received a map pack from the tournament director.
Its a real, real shame that Dewalt is unable to take up the challenge for Visa issues. Im not sure if he messed up, or if the authorities of russia (or possibly italy) are messing with him, or if maybe the time in between qualifiers and final are too short notice for the authorities, but either way its a real sad state of affair.
Dewalt is commited to the game for a long time and he won this rightful place. Lets not forgot there is a ton of money on the line and in personal opinion, Dewalt, he could likely have reached second place, looking at the lineup.
On October 31 2017 09:19 GTR wrote: Interesting how Dewalt was unable to get a visa in time, but Notforu was - what are some circumstances that allow this to happen?
There always seems to be some randomness involved is my experience (I do recall world cyber games of the past having issues with one or two players from a particular country not being granted entry while several others from the same country got it, with no apparent reason given), or it could be that Dewalt applied slightly later. Or Notforu splashed some cash.
On October 31 2017 09:19 GTR wrote: Interesting how Dewalt was unable to get a visa in time, but Notforu was - what are some circumstances that allow this to happen?
I recently had a Russian guy renting a room in my apartment. During that period I was renewing my passport. Being Norwegian and us having a highly efficient bureaucracy, the new passport was in my mailbox a mere two days after I applied for it. When I told him, he asked me how much I paid and what the difference in cost between 2 days and 1 month was - he was basically used to there being 3-4 different costs associated with any type of government paper depending on how quickly you needed it, according to him you could pay a lot and get it in 2 days, a bit less and get it in a week, a small extra fee and get it in 2 weeks, or you could not pay any extra and maybe you got it in a month. :p
I mean let me be clear, I'm not actually saying that notforu bribed people, I dunno anything about that. Can be lots of reasons.
Another thing to consider is the volume of applicants. There are times where it's busy and it'll take a month while in general, it may only need 2 weeks.
On October 31 2017 09:38 Liquid`Drone wrote: I recently had a Russian guy renting a room in my apartment. During that period I was renewing my passport. Being Norwegian and us having a highly efficient bureaucracy, the new passport was in my mailbox a mere two days after I applied for it. When I told him, he asked me how much I paid and what the difference in cost between 2 days and 1 month was - he was basically used to there being 3-4 different costs associated with any type of government paper depending on how quickly you needed it, according to him you could pay a lot and get it in 2 days, a bit less and get it in a week, a small extra fee and get it in 2 weeks, or you could not pay any extra and maybe you got it in a month. :p
I mean let me be clear, I'm not actually saying that notforu bribed people, I dunno anything about that. Can be lots of reasons.
Thats true. In Moscow i pay 30€ for visa and 30€ for agency. It took 4 days - a standard period of time to get italian visa. You can always pay something about 450-500€ and you will get visa in 1 day if your documents are ok , but only if you live in Moscow. Dewalt lives far away and received his rejection 30 oct. Had no time to resend all docs even if he wanted to pay tons of money...
Good luck tommorow Cadenzie and Sayle! Wish I could be there with you *grumbles about passport office again*, but I will live vicariously through your stories when you get back!
On November 01 2017 03:35 MymSlorm wrote: i hope Sayle takes photos and makes a blog about this tour and meeting with the rest of the guys
Unfortunately I'm still quite sick so I'm just focusing on not dying XD
Take some big doses of Vitamin C if you can find it in pure powder form it will be the best. Its a proven strategy and will help you recover immensely.
On November 01 2017 08:54 Qikz wrote: Good luck tommorow Cadenzie and Sayle! Wish I could be there with you *grumbles about passport office again*, but I will live vicariously through your stories when you get back!
they did invite you and cadenza as casters? i didnt even know cadenza cast bw O-O ,damn italy esports why u didnt invite the coach as a caster atleast :/ #jealousasfuck. #godraco #go3heads
On November 01 2017 08:54 Qikz wrote: Good luck tommorow Cadenzie and Sayle! Wish I could be there with you *grumbles about passport office again*, but I will live vicariously through your stories when you get back!
they did invite you and cadenza as casters? i didnt even know cadenza cast bw O-O ,damn italy esports why u didnt invite the coach as a caster atleast :/ #jealousasfuck. #godraco #go3heads
I think they invited myself and Sayle and when I couldn't go Cadenzie stepped in. It's why she's been casting loads of stuff with Sayle over the past 2 weeks to get some practice in. ^^
On November 01 2017 18:07 oDieN[Siege] wrote: FirebatHero has decent English~
I'm glad he likes pizza, but the one they're eating in Lucca is not quite that genuine ;D
where do you find the genuinest pizza in Italy?
I've eaten pizza in Lucca and it's usually quite bad. The best pizza is of course in Campania (Napoli, Caserta, Salerno), but you can find nice pizza places even in Rome.
Couldn't you get an express one at your local airport though? I mean Britain is still in the EU, so it shouldnt be a problem to get an temporary express one at the airport. Too bad you couldn't make it
On November 01 2017 18:31 juvenal wrote: Sayle, if you're reading this, can you do anything to disable the dynamic lighting? It's objectively worse for discerning units, especially in TvTs.
edit: maybe it's just me, here's a poll
Poll: Do you prefer dynamic lighting for viewing?
No (17)
85%
Yes (2)
10%
What does it matter (1)
5%
20 total votes
Your vote: Do you prefer dynamic lighting for viewing?
(Vote): Yes (Vote): No (Vote): What does it matter
On November 01 2017 18:31 juvenal wrote: Sayle, if you're reading this, can you do anything to disable the dynamic lighting? It's objectively worse for discerning units, especially in TvTs.
edit: maybe it's just me, here's a poll
Poll: Do you prefer dynamic lighting for viewing?
No (17)
85%
Yes (2)
10%
What does it matter (1)
5%
20 total votes
Your vote: Do you prefer dynamic lighting for viewing?
(Vote): Yes (Vote): No (Vote): What does it matter
On November 01 2017 18:42 AncientSion wrote: Why couldnt you got, Qikz ?
No passport and the UK passport office said I'd have to wait 6 weeks to get one (never had one before, never needed)
I'm sorting out my passport now though!
Sad to hear both Cadenzie and Sayle got sick. I'm watching, but without sound from work!
Do you need a passport to go from UK to Italy? I went from Italy to UK and my italian ID was enough, is it different from UK? :<
UK never joined Shengen and we never accepted ID cards so yeah we need a passport
Yeah I know you aren't in Schengen, but when I went to the UK (with so short notice that I didn't had the time to get a passport) they let me through, they just did a couple of more checks with my ID and I was good to go. Maybe it's different for british citizens going abroad, that sucks :\
On November 01 2017 19:24 Tarson wrote: Do you realize how much time consuming and exhausting it is to cast very match, Its impossible to do for only two casters.
you dont need to have it casted by the live casters, just have community casters cast them.. that's something they would have needed to set up beforehand but it wouldn't have been hard to do -_-
On November 01 2017 19:24 Tarson wrote: Do you realize how much time consuming and exhausting it is to cast very match, Its impossible to do for only two casters.
you dont need to have it casted by the live casters, just have community casters cast them.. that's something they would have needed to set up beforehand but it wouldn't have been hard to do -_-
sc2 tourneys work like that
seems like they didnt thought about it, preety sure there will be a polish caster to cast draco/koget games and some russian caster to cast notforu
On November 01 2017 19:24 Tarson wrote: Do you realize how much time consuming and exhausting it is to cast very match, Its impossible to do for only two casters.
you dont need to have it casted by the live casters, just have community casters cast them.. that's something they would have needed to set up beforehand but it wouldn't have been hard to do -_-
sc2 tourneys work like that
seems like they didnt thought about it, preety sure there will be a polish caster to cast draco/koget games and some russian caster to cast notforu
i hope so, really wanted to watch draco's match and n4u vs nony..
On November 01 2017 20:11 chrisolo wrote: Why aren't you there? Can you somehow get in touch with the people on site and tell them that the observer should stop using the zoom function?
I'm trying to give them some feedback, but I guess they're too busy and not reading our chat
where i could find updated results ? i mean all games... http://www.italianopen.eu/sc-remastered/ shows nothing, TeamLiquid also shows only few A group results, but not all...
On November 01 2017 20:53 True_Spike wrote: I love how most of the players are invited (purely for fame-related reasons) and we haven't even seen most of their games.
On November 01 2017 20:53 True_Spike wrote: I love how most of the players are invited (purely for fame-related reasons) and we haven't even seen most of their games.
that's because they lost so fast
Yeah, but what's the point of inviting them then? They were bound to lose first.
Invites make sense only when you stream all the games.
This tournament is really poorly managed. But I guess we could've predicted that from the start with how the invites were selected and so on.
pretty nice prize pool, but no passion or anyone with deeper brood war knowledge behind, producing the stream. No marketing, no hype building, no vision, nothing to rail viewers in.
SC:BW is much better than SC2, but when tournaments you throw on are this poorly run, you're better off not doing anything.
ESL should know better. If they are going to make a budget available for a brood war tournament at least get some brood war people involved from the very start of the progress. So that people who actually care about making bw look good can ensure some quality.
Only positive thing about this tournament is sayle and cadenza casting, keep it up guys.
On November 01 2017 21:02 Liquid`Ret wrote: This tournament is really poorly managed. But I guess we could've predicted that from the start with how the invites were selected and so on.
pretty nice prize pool, but no passion or anyone with deeper brood war knowledge behind, producing the stream. No marketing, no hype building, no vision, nothing to rail viewers in.
SC:BW is much better than SC2, but when tournaments you throw on are this poorly run, you're better off not doing anything.
ESL should know better. If they are going to make a budget available for a brood war tournament at least get some brood war people involved from the very start of the progress. So that people who actually care about making bw look good can ensure some quality.
Only positive thing about this tournament is sayle and cadenza casting, keep it up guys.
i second that. You don't feel the atmosphere of the place, i actually don't like the interviews a lot and would have preferred someone with a solid Broodwar background to do them, same goes for the observer. You don't feel the atmosphere of the site, which i would've loved to. The only good thing really is Sayle being invited as a caster and i like Cadenzie too.
Big bummer is we are seeing roughly half the matches that are being played in groupstages. Really doesn't make a lot of sense to invite Cloud, Nony and Morrow as fan favourites when you don't cover their games enough. The invite spot to italy kinda grinds my gears too. I was sceptical about it in the first place, because i doubted how deep the pool of italian talent actually is. Nothing against Pro, i think he deserves Kudo's for going out there and defeating Draco is really a great thing, but his skill level is just not.. for the grand stage i guess? Don't wanna disrespect him, but if you have followed BW before SC:R you know we had no top players from italy since Alfio retired.
Is Pro known under some ICCUp or FISH aka that im missing?
On November 01 2017 22:02 Lambertus wrote: Im so sad! :-( No NonY? Hope for replays...but ESL should know better! Good casting though...
invite NonY to his first BW tourney in 8 years, proceed to not cast any of his games
Yea I am sad, especially since its only 2:30 pm and we only get one more series. Could have shown Nony vs NotforU and still manage to end the stream before 4:30 pm (the scheduled end of stream).
On November 01 2017 21:02 Liquid`Ret wrote: This tournament is really poorly managed. But I guess we could've predicted that from the start with how the invites were selected and so on.
pretty nice prize pool, but no passion or anyone with deeper brood war knowledge behind, producing the stream. No marketing, no hype building, no vision, nothing to rail viewers in.
SC:BW is much better than SC2, but when tournaments you throw on are this poorly run, you're better off not doing anything.
ESL should know better. If they are going to make a budget available for a brood war tournament at least get some brood war people involved from the very start of the progress. So that people who actually care about making bw look good can ensure some quality.
Only positive thing about this tournament is sayle and cadenza casting, keep it up guys.
I agree, I'm really sad that they have mismanaged the event to such an extent.
My (abbreviated) list of improvements needed: 1) Bracket needs to be available and updated as matches happen. 2) We should have a thread here for the actual main event. 3) Qualifiers/Invites need to ensure players of similar skill level. 4) Twitch chat should be moderated. 5) Optimal playing conditions for the players should be weighed more heavily. If you want a blue/red tint on their face, do it on the production side. 6) With such a limited player pool, all games should be casted. Have a B and C stream, let people cast those remotely, something!
I could go on but I'm sure most of us could. I just wanted to list some of my (hopefully constructive) criticisms so organizers can improve future events!
On November 01 2017 23:10 Trizz wrote: is cadenzie trans? serious question, if it wasn't for the accent i wouldn't be able to tell if it was cadenzie or scarlett casting.
Congrats to Morrow, but also big thanks to koget for contributing with his fighting spirit and making the games long and fun. I know he is good enough to advance and may be disappointed with the result, but still i want to thank him for the games he showed.
I just caught up on the games. I wonder why observers use the zoom at all... Sometimes when they zoom out, you can't even see the units or projectiles properly unless you're fullscreen...
On November 02 2017 00:52 Eywa- wrote: I just caught up on the games. I wonder why observers use the zoom at all... Sometimes when they zoom out, you can't even see the units or projectiles properly unless you're fullscreen...
I zoom when I'm observing, not that much but it is really useful if an engagement is happening over one screen.
Honestly TvT I wish I could observe slightly zoomed out all the time. It makes it so much easier.
On November 02 2017 00:52 Eywa- wrote: I just caught up on the games. I wonder why observers use the zoom at all... Sometimes when they zoom out, you can't even see the units or projectiles properly unless you're fullscreen...
I zoom when I'm observing, not that much but it is really useful if an engagement is happening over one screen.
Honestly TvT I wish I could observe slightly zoomed out all the time. It makes it so much easier.
I don't agree, the only time zoom is necessary is for a zoom in on a 30 kill DT and his friend who has 20 kills.
If you're obsing and casting at the same time, it's understandable that you would want to zoom out because it's easier, but an obs should be able to capture all of the important points of a battle without zooming out... It's already widescreen with a much larger viewpoint than back in the day.
I'm like - assuming I got this right - really fucking surprised that an invite only (almost) tournament does not broadcast and VOD each individual matchup. What is the point of having a "high profile" tournament with so few participants if you are not going to high light each game? I mean really.
On November 02 2017 01:13 merz wrote: I'm like - assuming I got this right - really fucking surprised that an invite only (almost) tournament does not broadcast and VOD each individual matchup. What is the point of having a "high profile" tournament with so few participants if you are not going to high light each game? I mean really.
This is a good point, if you're not going to broadcast the games anyway, you might as well allow people to come to the event at their own expense and have a larger group stage.
btw the mistery of nony.no one did heard about him for years,then we know he is going to italy,we dont really much about his skill more than his post that he is training with a secret id,then the day has come and the only we know is that nony is indeed in italy cuz we saw him in the presentation but basically all we know is that he loss 1-2 vs gorynich and 0-2. vs draco without letting viewers fans any screen time of the TSL2 champion.something must be wrong here.
Hey guys, thanks for all the feedback! I'm going to ask the ESL guys if they can make the replays either publically available or at least give them to me to do a cast at a later date
On November 02 2017 02:21 JelloKitty wrote: Sayle sounds so different :D
My nose was getting more and more stuffy as the day went on. During the last game, I would basically mute my mic whenever Cadenzie was talking to sniffle/wipe my nose >_<
On November 02 2017 02:21 Sayle wrote: Hey guys, thanks for all the feedback! I'm going to ask the ESL guys if they can make the replays either publically available or at least give them to me to do a cast at a later date
Edit: btw Jorosar is effin awesome :D
pretty please. Public replays would be the very best and i'd totally support a "best of uncasted games" show with you+Qikz!
On November 02 2017 01:46 [sc1f]eonzerg wrote: btw the mistery of nony.no one did heard about him for years,then we know he is going to italy,we dont really much about his skill more than his post that he is training with a secret id,then the day has come and the only we know is that nony is indeed in italy cuz we saw him in the presentation but basically all we know is that he loss 1-2 vs gorynich and 0-2. vs draco without letting viewers fans any screen time of the TSL2 champion.something must be wrong here.
On November 02 2017 02:21 Sayle wrote: Hey guys, thanks for all the feedback! I'm going to ask the ESL guys if they can make the replays either publically available or at least give them to me to do a cast at a later date
Edit: btw Jorosar is effin awesome :D
pretty please. Public replays would be the very best and i'd totally support a "best of uncasted games" show with you+Qikz!
On November 02 2017 01:46 [sc1f]eonzerg wrote: btw the mistery of nony.no one did heard about him for years,then we know he is going to italy,we dont really much about his skill more than his post that he is training with a secret id,then the day has come and the only we know is that nony is indeed in italy cuz we saw him in the presentation but basically all we know is that he loss 1-2 vs gorynich and 0-2. vs draco without letting viewers fans any screen time of the TSL2 champion.something must be wrong here.
yep, couldn't agree more.
Yeah I m with you guys. Maybe I am a bit biased, with being the TL-FanClub-Representative and all, but this could have been a nice litte hype but instead for me it feels like a wasted opportunity.
But ok otherwise, what I want to say:
Positive for me was the whole idea of the tournament! its cool to see that an organization like ESL puts some money into SC:R. Lets hope they do it again and some feedback is taken seriously.
Yes that's right. Also, I believe we've arranged for a replay pack of all the games to be collected and made available for you guys, but don't take that as an official statement yet
On November 02 2017 04:02 ne4aJIb wrote: Did FBH dominate everyone?
yes, pretty hard. I dont understand the invitation, he will, as i said before, win this tournament easy, some dudes from the organisation who thought that fbh is at the same skill as the top foreigners xd, what a joke. In a Bo3 he will not lose. Nony was a joke too, sry but totally unecessary to invite this dude. He did nothing in the last few years to represent broodwar, dont take it personally but it was not ok to take the spot, there was no good reason for the invitation of the mentioned ppl, if someone can explain this to me it would be a pleasure.
umm can someone spoil the 2nd game of FBH vs draco for me? I was trying to look at it every now and then during work, but when I took a peek it was already gg and everyone in chat were saying stuff that made me curious on what the winner did.
On November 02 2017 18:47 abuse wrote: umm can someone spoil the 2nd game of FBH vs draco for me? I was trying to look at it every now and then during work, but when I took a peek it was already gg and everyone in chat were saying stuff that made me curious on what the winner did.
They were almost replaying the game of flash vs bisu. draco went 2 base carrier and FBH opted for a timing bio push. draco skipped reaver for early game to get carrier faster, kinda, and had not much defense against the marines and tanks.
On a side not: Both players were analysing the game yesterday together, on how flash lost in it.
why do post match interviews need to be so cringy all the time...."talk us through your emotions bla bla" jesus christ. yeah i bet he as a korean progamer almost shat his pants playing on an italian stage playing for 5 grand only. why cant there be competent interviewers with competent questions
On November 02 2017 19:24 MotherOfRunes wrote: why do post match interviews need to be so cringy all the time...."talk us through your emotions bla bla" jesus christ. yeah i bet he as a korean progamer almost shat his pants playing on an italian stage playing for 5 grand only. why cant there be competent interviewers with competent questions
Interviews always are. Most overused question, in different shapes and forms, is "how do you feel?". Though this game was quiet changing a bit in who is ahead and might win it.
Also FBH is not only playing for the miney, he is representing Korea. So it should be a question of honor and proud too.
On November 02 2017 19:24 MotherOfRunes wrote: why do post match interviews need to be so cringy all the time...."talk us through your emotions bla bla" jesus christ. yeah i bet he as a korean progamer almost shat his pants playing on an italian stage playing for 5 grand only. why cant there be competent interviewers with competent questions
Our translator is from the embassy in Florence and isn't familiar with StarCraft, so there's a limited amount of technical vocabulary we can use when preparing questions.
It's possible for me to do this for planned interviews (such as the beginning of day 1), but not possible to prepare more in-depth than 'basic' questions when we are needed on-stage at a moment's notice basically on standby from the middle of game 3 onwards.
Firebathero and I discussed this yesterday - if I have the chance to get a bit more technical later with the questions, I will.
Plus, the opening question was about the tactics used in the final game rather than launching into general "you've won, well done, how do you feel". I can't help if the answer is "my opponent played well, I'm glad I won" and not something more technical. Where possible, I always try to ask something interesting and I also dislike cookie-cutter questions - but it's also circumstantial and this cannot be done every single time.
It's almost like it's worth asking whether there's a reason things are done a certain way before launching into attacking someone's competence. :thinking:
On November 02 2017 19:24 MotherOfRunes wrote: why do post match interviews need to be so cringy all the time...."talk us through your emotions bla bla" jesus christ. yeah i bet he as a korean progamer almost shat his pants playing on an italian stage playing for 5 grand only. why cant there be competent interviewers with competent questions
Interviews always are. Most overused question, in different shapes and forms, is "how do you feel?". Though this game was quiet changing a bit in who is ahead and might win it.
Also FBH is not only playing for the miney, he is representing Korea. So it should be a question of honor and proud too.
i know what he is representing and stuff. it was just an example why this is not an emotional roller coaster for him that is worth being asked about. its just bullshitty questions and im sick of it. sorry for venting here :D
he could have had a shot with his speedlot followup in g5 if he decided to allin with it rather than attempt a bust when fbh moved out to take his 3rd (or maybe just try to take out the turret with his goons and dt in the early game, bit risky tho his turret was well placed)
yeah it was good by draco realizing normal games wont take him anywhere vs fbh. and instead he went straight for the throat the next games. would have been nice to see him take that G5
On November 02 2017 20:12 abuse wrote: wait what? draco 2:3 FBH? whoa. Will there be vods available? when? where?
VODs should be appear in small vod 2.0 thread. Also, afair, replays will be available...somethingsomething Sayle said earlier in this thread could happen.
On November 02 2017 20:12 abuse wrote: wait what? draco 2:3 FBH? whoa. Will there be vods available? when? where?
VODs should be appear in small vod 2.0 thread. Also, afair, replays will be available...somethingsomething Sayle said earlier in this thread could happen.
I think it would've been great if this tourney was with more broadcasted games, less koreans and real qualifiers with no invites. Maybe invite some famous names after they did good in the qualifiers.
On November 02 2017 22:05 Good1 wrote: I think it would've been great if this tourney was with more broadcasted games, less koreans and real qualifiers with no invites. Maybe invite some famous names after they did good in the qualifiers.
Also better caster maybe?Or at least let Sayle cast solo...
On November 02 2017 22:05 Good1 wrote: I think it would've been great if this tourney was with more broadcasted games, less koreans and real qualifiers with no invites. Maybe invite some famous names after they did good in the qualifiers.
Also better caster maybe?Or at least let Sayle cast solo...
More experienced and well known castters won't hurt, but i think Cadenza is ok, she has an insight into the game but lacks experience in the presentation part.
I think the only series upset so far is Koget < Morrow... Otherwise, everything has finished exactly as predicted going into the tournament. (Draco vs FBH 2-3 is surprising, but still not a win)
It would have been interesting to see Dewalt and Bonyth play in this, PvT is definitely favorable over ZvT (Notforu of course deserves to be there, but he definitely wouldn't be my first choice if I had to pick a player to play vs FBH) .
why did it have to start so early? its not like this tournament was hosted in russia or even outside europe. Thx anyway ESL but please, more players/casted games and start later in the day, at least if its on a work day (if there is a) next time.
Cadenza has been fine, her understanding is significantly better than the average nonkorean caster, and it's been especially helpful for Sayle in the tvz games. She doesn't have that much experience as a caster and the dynamic between them isn't perfect yet, but I'm pleased.
On November 02 2017 22:18 Liquid`Drone wrote: Cadenza has been fine, her understanding is significantly better than the average nonkorean caster, and it's been especially helpful for Sayle in the tvz games. She doesn't have that much experience as a caster and the dynamic between them isn't perfect yet, but I'm pleased.
I like Cadenza in general, but when it comes to her casting, it's not good. If you really scrutinize it, she's not really adding anything to the cast. Sayle just has way more experience, more knowledge, and a louder voice for the actual play-by-play casting. I was asking myself this while watching: what is she contributing that is substantial? But, if she was literally the only other possible caster to accompany Sayle, well then, que sera sera.
Side note: Not to make it a hot take, but has anyone else noticed how when casting (in general) is talked about, when there is a poor caster, a common upside to the argument is always that the caster is better geared to talk to low level players? Like why is this seen as a good thing lol
On November 02 2017 22:18 Liquid`Drone wrote: Cadenza has been fine, her understanding is significantly better than the average nonkorean caster, and it's been especially helpful for Sayle in the tvz games. She doesn't have that much experience as a caster and the dynamic between them isn't perfect yet, but I'm pleased.
I like Cadenza in general, but when it comes to her casting, it's not good. If you really scrutinize it, she's not really adding anything to the cast. Sayle just has way more experience, more knowledge, and a louder voice for the actual play-by-play casting. I was asking myself this while watching: what is she contributing that is substantial? But, if she was literally the only other possible caster to accompany Sayle, well then, que sera sera.
Side note: Not to make it a hot take, but has anyone else noticed how when casting (in general) is talked about, when there is a poor caster, a common upside to the argument is always that the caster is better geared to talk to low level players? Like why is this seen as a good thing lol
Her voice is just distracting.She doesnt really tell anything either so she is just white noise to me.
On November 02 2017 22:18 Liquid`Drone wrote: Cadenza has been fine, her understanding is significantly better than the average nonkorean caster, and it's been especially helpful for Sayle in the tvz games. She doesn't have that much experience as a caster and the dynamic between them isn't perfect yet, but I'm pleased.
I like Cadenza in general, but when it comes to her casting, it's not good. If you really scrutinize it, she's not really adding anything to the cast. Sayle just has way more experience, more knowledge, and a louder voice for the actual play-by-play casting. I was asking myself this while watching: what is she contributing that is substantial? But, if she was literally the only other possible caster to accompany Sayle, well then, que sera sera.
Side note: Not to make it a hot take, but has anyone else noticed how when casting (in general) is talked about, when there is a poor caster, a common upside to the argument is always that the caster is better geared to talk to low level players? Like why is this seen as a good thing lol
Good players are able to follow the action anyway and depend less on the cast. I actually agree that it's better to gear the cast towards low level players. But I don't follow that being less good at the game makes you better at explaining it to a low level player, it just makes you focus on the less significant aspects. :p
ya, sayle for some reason got worse with his cast over the last couple of weeks almost like he lost part of his game sense and knowledge cadenza(zy)(zie)? actually knows what she's talking about and is kinda the only casting zerg i know thats nice for a change
On November 02 2017 23:12 [AS]Rattus wrote: ya, sayle for some reason got worse with his cast over the last couple of weeks almost like he lost part of his game sense and knowledge cadenza(zy)(zie)? actually knows what she's talking about and is kinda the only casting zerg i know thats nice for a change
I'll let Sayle correct me if I'm wrong, but I do believe he's been sick...
Arent u tired of complaining nerds?what about actually commenting all that knowledge,plz tell us,i dont even know why i check lr threads anymore,is depressing.
NotForU in the finals. I hope the guy has some all-in prepared for FBH...
This is the worst idea ever. You will not beat someone who is good at the game with an all in. It'll never work if they're playing standard.
Actually, you will never beat someone who is far better at the game by playing entirely standard... He's right... I didn't see the games, but I heard Draco won with 2 all ins. Actually, all ins are typically done by the lesser skilled player.
On November 02 2017 21:50 Good1 wrote: Who organized this tournament on whose money? Good that it is here but its soo strange and doesnt make sense.
ESL organised it on ESL money.
NotForU in the finals. I hope the guy has some all-in prepared for FBH...
This is the worst idea ever. You will not beat someone who is good at the game with an all in. It'll never work if they're playing standard.
Actually, you will never beat someone who is far better at the game by playing entirely standard... He's right... I didn't see the games, but I heard Draco won with 2 all ins. Actually, all ins are typically done by the lesser skilled player.
On November 02 2017 21:50 Good1 wrote: Who organized this tournament on whose money? Good that it is here but its soo strange and doesnt make sense.
ESL organised it on ESL money.
NotForU in the finals. I hope the guy has some all-in prepared for FBH...
This is the worst idea ever. You will not beat someone who is good at the game with an all in. It'll never work if they're playing standard.
Actually, you will never beat someone who is far better at the game by playing entirely standard... He's right... I didn't see the games, but I heard Draco won with 2 all ins. Actually, all ins are typically done by the lesser skilled player.
Tvz is a different matchup .
Yeah, that's why I said it would have been cool if Dewalt and Bonyth qualified, I think PvT has far better odds for successful all ins.
On November 02 2017 22:18 Liquid`Drone wrote: Cadenza has been fine, her understanding is significantly better than the average nonkorean caster, and it's been especially helpful for Sayle in the tvz games. She doesn't have that much experience as a caster and the dynamic between them isn't perfect yet, but I'm pleased.
I like Cadenza in general, but when it comes to her casting, it's not good. If you really scrutinize it, she's not really adding anything to the cast. Sayle just has way more experience, more knowledge, and a louder voice for the actual play-by-play casting. I was asking myself this while watching: what is she contributing that is substantial? But, if she was literally the only other possible caster to accompany Sayle, well then, que sera sera.
Side note: Not to make it a hot take, but has anyone else noticed how when casting (in general) is talked about, when there is a poor caster, a common upside to the argument is always that the caster is better geared to talk to low level players? Like why is this seen as a good thing lol
I disagree with Cadenza having less knowledge about the game. It is obvious that she is not as used to the casting role as Sayle is, but from the VODS I've caught up on so far (Morrow vs Koget and Cloud vs Koget) I think her assement of the situation in the game and her analysis is a lot more on point than Sayles at times. I don't mean to hate on Sayle, I think he does a fine job as a caster too.
Also I find her voice extremly soothing to listen to while Sayle just has the scream and make loud noices approach. To each their own though.
And to be fair, in my opinion the role of a more experienced caster is to adjust to the situation at hand. Sayle does not adjust his style to his co-caster, which is necessary in situations like this. A lot of the time in the vod vs Morrow and Koget he was just talking over Cadenza.
On November 02 2017 23:39 aiwekas wrote: i think its stupid call firebathero who already win this tourn before start.gl hf
Going in with this attitude is why foreigners will never beat koreans. This is a LAN setting, no lag. If there's a perfect time for a foreigner to train and win it would be now.
Also I hope people are not this negative about my casting with Sayle, it's not very nice to Cadenza who is a) sick and b) doing imo a damn good job from the vods I saw yesterday.
On November 02 2017 23:39 aiwekas wrote: i think its stupid call firebathero who already win this tourn before start.gl hf
Going in with this attitude is why foreigners will never beat koreans. This is a LAN setting, no lag. If there's a perfect time for a foreigner to train and win it would be now.
Also I hope people are not this negative about my casting with Sayle, it's not very nice to Cadenza who is a) sick and b) doing imo a damn good job from the vods I saw yesterday.
what the hell re u talking about qikz? how is possible that people that cant reach b- on iccup are always shit talking and spreading statements like this one lol
On November 02 2017 23:39 aiwekas wrote: i think its stupid call firebathero who already win this tourn before start.gl hf
Going in with this attitude is why foreigners will never beat koreans. This is a LAN setting, no lag. If there's a perfect time for a foreigner to train and win it would be now.
Also I hope people are not this negative about my casting with Sayle, it's not very nice to Cadenza who is a) sick and b) doing imo a damn good job from the vods I saw yesterday.
what the hell re u talking about qikz? how is possible that people that cant reach b- on iccup are always shit talking and spreading statements like this one lol
I didn't mean anything horrible by the statement, but there's a lot of people who say foreigners can't beat koreans because of lag. There's no lag at a LAN.
On November 02 2017 23:39 aiwekas wrote: i think its stupid call firebathero who already win this tourn before start.gl hf
Going in with this attitude is why foreigners will never beat koreans. This is a LAN setting, no lag. If there's a perfect time for a foreigner to train and win it would be now.
Also I hope people are not this negative about my casting with Sayle, it's not very nice to Cadenza who is a) sick and b) doing imo a damn good job from the vods I saw yesterday.
what the hell re u talking about qikz? how is possible that people that cant reach b- on iccup are always shit talking and spreading statements like this one lol
I didn't mean anything horrible by the statement, but there's a lot of people who say foreigners can't beat koreans because of lag. There's no lag at a LAN.
there is a guy that lived in a pro house for 10 years training with the best players in the world everyday 12 + hours.again.what the hell re u talking about?
On November 02 2017 22:17 [AS]Rattus wrote: why did it have to start so early? its not like this tournament was hosted in russia or even outside europe. Thx anyway ESL but please, more players/casted games and start later in the day, at least if its on a work day (if there is a) next time.
It's inside a comics convention and after a certain hour they get kicked out of the cathedral xd
context matters.im sure if u invited a korean from ladder 3000 mmr u will be abble to watch good games in live stage.where online a terran player will obviously laughs at the zerg .but this is a waste of time arguing with low skill players viewers.any high lvl player will understand it.
On November 03 2017 00:00 [sc1f]eonzerg wrote: context matters.im sure if u invited a korean from ladder 3000 mmr u will be abble to watch good games in live stage.where online a terran player will obviously laughs at the zerg .but this is a waste of time arguing with low skill players viewers.any high lvl player will understand it.
Sorry for having an opinion eon. I'll be sure to increase my MMR next time I want to talk with anyone.
On November 03 2017 00:00 [sc1f]eonzerg wrote: context matters.im sure if u invited a korean from ladder 3000 mmr u will be abble to watch good games in live stage.where online a terran player will obviously laughs at the zerg .but this is a waste of time arguing with low skill players viewers.any high lvl player will understand it.
Sorry for having an opinion eon. I'll be sure to increase my MMR next time I want to talk with anyone.
I wasn't trying to insult you or anyone else.
He has a point, if you can't arbitrarily increase your skill, then what makes you think the top foreigners can? You can train for 2 weeks without dramatically increasing your skill level. You asking the top foreigner players to beat top level Koreans is like me asking you to beat top level foreigners, it just won't happen. Sure, you can train, but your opponent is also training... Yes, you have work and other commitments, so do top foreigners.
Compare this to foreigners vs Koreans... If eonzerg (or any other foreigner) went full time, he needs to close the skill gap against another player who is much better than him and who is already playing full time, improving their own skills against better opponents in a better environment (in the same environment it would be tough).
Why doesn't Scan qualify for ASL? - He simply isn't good enough, he can't arbitrarily increase his skill by sheer power of will... Expecting someone to do so is ridiculous, the progress is gradual, but you're competing against other players who are also progressing their skill.
I mean, if you're looking for that one-time snipe and not actually a level playing field, then that might be achievable, but it's kind of a silly goal.
On November 03 2017 00:00 [sc1f]eonzerg wrote: context matters.im sure if u invited a korean from ladder 3000 mmr u will be abble to watch good games in live stage.where online a terran player will obviously laughs at the zerg .but this is a waste of time arguing with low skill players viewers.any high lvl player will understand it.
Sorry for having an opinion eon. I'll be sure to increase my MMR next time I want to talk with anyone.
I wasn't trying to insult you or anyone else.
He has a point, if you can't arbitrarily increase your skill, then what makes you think the top foreigners can? You can train for 2 weeks without dramatically increasing your skill level. You asking the top foreigner players to beat top level Koreans is like me asking you to beat top level foreigners, it just won't happen. Sure, you can train, but your opponent is also training... Yes, you have work and other commitments, so do top foreigners.
Compare this to foreigners vs Koreans... If eonzerg (or any other foreigner) went full time, he needs to close the skill gap against another player who is much better than him and who is already playing full time, improving their own skills against better opponents in a better environment (in the same environment it would be tough).
Why doesn't Scan qualify for ASL? - He simply isn't good enough, he can't arbitrarily increase his skill by sheer power of will... Expecting someone to do so is ridiculous, the progress is gradual, but you're competing against other players who are also progressing their skill.
I mean, if you're looking for that one-time snipe and not actually a level playing field, then that might be achievable, but it's kind of a silly goal.
LOL?
If i was in fbh's bracket for busan qualifiers, i wouldve done it just like fbh can. Dont bring up my name and talk about skills when you dont know much.
On November 03 2017 00:00 [sc1f]eonzerg wrote: context matters.im sure if u invited a korean from ladder 3000 mmr u will be abble to watch good games in live stage.where online a terran player will obviously laughs at the zerg .but this is a waste of time arguing with low skill players viewers.any high lvl player will understand it.
Sorry for having an opinion eon. I'll be sure to increase my MMR next time I want to talk with anyone.
I wasn't trying to insult you or anyone else.
He has a point, if you can't arbitrarily increase your skill, then what makes you think the top foreigners can? You can train for 2 weeks without dramatically increasing your skill level. You asking the top foreigner players to beat top level Koreans is like me asking you to beat top level foreigners, it just won't happen. Sure, you can train, but your opponent is also training... Yes, you have work and other commitments, so do top foreigners.
Compare this to foreigners vs Koreans... If eonzerg (or any other foreigner) went full time, he needs to close the skill gap against another player who is much better than him and who is already playing full time, improving their own skills against better opponents in a better environment (in the same environment it would be tough).
Why doesn't Scan qualify for ASL? - He simply isn't good enough, he can't arbitrarily increase his skill by sheer power of will... Expecting someone to do so is ridiculous, the progress is gradual, but you're competing against other players who are also progressing their skill.
I mean, if you're looking for that one-time snipe and not actually a level playing field, then that might be achievable, but it's kind of a silly goal.
LOL?
If i was in fbh's bracket for busan qualifiers, i wouldve done it just like fbh can. Dont bring up my name and talk about skills when you dont know much.
Dude, all I'm saying is that there are a ton of Koreans who also didn't qualify for ASL who are all high in skill, but they can't arbitrarily increase their skill... Am I wrong?
Also, you ask for your name to not be brought up because you think it's BM and you simultaneously bring up someone else's name and say you are much better than them and they basically only made it due to an easy bracket?
On November 02 2017 23:39 aiwekas wrote: i think its stupid call firebathero who already win this tourn before start.gl hf
Going in with this attitude is why foreigners will never beat koreans. This is a LAN setting, no lag. If there's a perfect time for a foreigner to train and win it would be now.
Also I hope people are not this negative about my casting with Sayle, it's not very nice to Cadenza who is a) sick and b) doing imo a damn good job from the vods I saw yesterday.
what the hell re u talking about qikz? how is possible that people that cant reach b- on iccup are always shit talking and spreading statements like this one lol
I didn't mean anything horrible by the statement, but there's a lot of people who say foreigners can't beat koreans because of lag. There's no lag at a LAN.
there is a guy that lived in a pro house for 10 years training with the best players in the world everyday 12 + hours.again.what the hell re u talking about?
you can win against a player of FBH calibre as a foreigner if you do it like Draco and play the right cheese at the right time. Im sure he thought hard about those beforehand and prepared them with FBH in mind. Yeah that doesn't get you better in the long run and you can't cheese every game w/o getting to predictable. But heck, it's a 32k $ prize pool, this is the time to go for winning at all costs if any.
On November 02 2017 23:39 aiwekas wrote: i think its stupid call firebathero who already win this tourn before start.gl hf
Going in with this attitude is why foreigners will never beat koreans. This is a LAN setting, no lag. If there's a perfect time for a foreigner to train and win it would be now.
Also I hope people are not this negative about my casting with Sayle, it's not very nice to Cadenza who is a) sick and b) doing imo a damn good job from the vods I saw yesterday.
what the hell re u talking about qikz? how is possible that people that cant reach b- on iccup are always shit talking and spreading statements like this one lol
I didn't mean anything horrible by the statement, but there's a lot of people who say foreigners can't beat koreans because of lag. There's no lag at a LAN.
there is a guy that lived in a pro house for 10 years training with the best players in the world everyday 12 + hours.again.what the hell re u talking about?
you can win against a player of FBH calibre as a foreigner if you do it like Draco and play the right cheese at the right time. Im sure he thought hard about those beforehand and prepared them with FBH in mind. Yeah that doesn't get you better in the long run and you can't cheese every game w/o getting to predictable. But heck, it's a 32k $ prize pool, this is the time to go for winning at all costs if any.
infernal wasn't invited tho. He earned his spot in WCG Germany, which at this time was arguably one of the top 5 foreign teams in BW, so huge competition, and faced Flash regularly during the WCG. Sure he lost horribly. He has probably in a much better shape than Draco today, but FBH ain't Flash
Flyingdrone: i meant to say that infernal vs Flash was of course much more of an uphill battle then Draco vs FBH today. Simply because Flash was already known as the ultimate weapon when he played infernal. + Show Spoiler +
Pretty much a no brainer, i added that for some other folks who might enjoy information on the context of the linked game.
On November 02 2017 23:39 aiwekas wrote: i think its stupid call firebathero who already win this tourn before start.gl hf
Going in with this attitude is why foreigners will never beat koreans. This is a LAN setting, no lag. If there's a perfect time for a foreigner to train and win it would be now.
Also I hope people are not this negative about my casting with Sayle, it's not very nice to Cadenza who is a) sick and b) doing imo a damn good job from the vods I saw yesterday.
what the hell re u talking about qikz? how is possible that people that cant reach b- on iccup are always shit talking and spreading statements like this one lol
I didn't mean anything horrible by the statement, but there's a lot of people who say foreigners can't beat koreans because of lag. There's no lag at a LAN.
there is a guy that lived in a pro house for 10 years training with the best players in the world everyday 12 + hours.again.what the hell re u talking about?
you can win against a player of FBH calibre as a foreigner if you do it like Draco and play the right cheese at the right time. Im sure he thought hard about those beforehand and prepared them with FBH in mind. Yeah that doesn't get you better in the long run and you can't cheese every game w/o getting to predictable. But heck, it's a 32k $ prize pool, this is the time to go for winning at all costs if any.
infernal wasn't invited tho. He earned his spot in WCG Germany, which at this time was arguably one of the top 5 foreign teams in BW, so huge competition, and faced Flash regularly during the WCG. Sure he lost horribly. He has probably in a much better shape than Draco today, but FBH ain't Flash
lol that reply wasn't to you tho. Also i didn't get what you meant with your last phrase.
On November 02 2017 23:39 aiwekas wrote: i think its stupid call firebathero who already win this tourn before start.gl hf
Going in with this attitude is why foreigners will never beat koreans. This is a LAN setting, no lag. If there's a perfect time for a foreigner to train and win it would be now.
Also I hope people are not this negative about my casting with Sayle, it's not very nice to Cadenza who is a) sick and b) doing imo a damn good job from the vods I saw yesterday.
what the hell re u talking about qikz? how is possible that people that cant reach b- on iccup are always shit talking and spreading statements like this one lol
I didn't mean anything horrible by the statement, but there's a lot of people who say foreigners can't beat koreans because of lag. There's no lag at a LAN.
there is a guy that lived in a pro house for 10 years training with the best players in the world everyday 12 + hours.again.what the hell re u talking about?
you can win against a player of FBH calibre as a foreigner if you do it like Draco and play the right cheese at the right time. Im sure he thought hard about those beforehand and prepared them with FBH in mind. Yeah that doesn't get you better in the long run and you can't cheese every game w/o getting to predictable. But heck, it's a 32k $ prize pool, this is the time to go for winning at all costs if any.
you re a low skill player sorry amigo
you too. You didn't even qualify.
finished top 5,thats a good result i guess.im sure u need 20 years playing non stop and me no playing 19 to you have a 45% chance to win me :/
On November 02 2017 23:39 aiwekas wrote: i think its stupid call firebathero who already win this tourn before start.gl hf
Going in with this attitude is why foreigners will never beat koreans. This is a LAN setting, no lag. If there's a perfect time for a foreigner to train and win it would be now.
Also I hope people are not this negative about my casting with Sayle, it's not very nice to Cadenza who is a) sick and b) doing imo a damn good job from the vods I saw yesterday.
what the hell re u talking about qikz? how is possible that people that cant reach b- on iccup are always shit talking and spreading statements like this one lol
I didn't mean anything horrible by the statement, but there's a lot of people who say foreigners can't beat koreans because of lag. There's no lag at a LAN.
I've hardly ever seen people say that foreigners can't beat koreans because of lag. People are saying they don't enjoy playing in lag, not necessarily that their chances at winning increases. Eonzerg himself pretty much seemed to blame lag for a victory he had against Scan (where he followed up by giving scan a W.O. despite being up 1-0). Then some people are saying that facing terran, specifically zvt muta micro and Bonyth style reaver micro, is something that is negatively affected more so than the terran counter-micro is, when you go from TR12 to TR8.
Incidentally a LAN environment, while obviously less laggy, can be detrimental towards europeans for the opposite reason; they're not used to playing with that instantaneous response times. I know that the few games I've played against other Scandinavians with TR16, my muta micro has become worse than it is on TR12 because I end up pulling back before the mutas actually shoot, as I'm used to including a tiny delay. So LAN environment does not equate to a more level playing field than a LAG environment does, but it does equate to a significantly more enjoyable playing field.
On November 03 2017 00:00 [sc1f]eonzerg wrote: context matters.im sure if u invited a korean from ladder 3000 mmr u will be abble to watch good games in live stage.where online a terran player will obviously laughs at the zerg .but this is a waste of time arguing with low skill players viewers.any high lvl player will understand it.
Sorry for having an opinion eon. I'll be sure to increase my MMR next time I want to talk with anyone.
I wasn't trying to insult you or anyone else.
He has a point, if you can't arbitrarily increase your skill, then what makes you think the top foreigners can? You can train for 2 weeks without dramatically increasing your skill level. You asking the top foreigner players to beat top level Koreans is like me asking you to beat top level foreigners, it just won't happen. Sure, you can train, but your opponent is also training... Yes, you have work and other commitments, so do top foreigners.
Compare this to foreigners vs Koreans... If eonzerg (or any other foreigner) went full time, he needs to close the skill gap against another player who is much better than him and who is already playing full time, improving their own skills against better opponents in a better environment (in the same environment it would be tough).
Why doesn't Scan qualify for ASL? - He simply isn't good enough, he can't arbitrarily increase his skill by sheer power of will... Expecting someone to do so is ridiculous, the progress is gradual, but you're competing against other players who are also progressing their skill.
I mean, if you're looking for that one-time snipe and not actually a level playing field, then that might be achievable, but it's kind of a silly goal.
LOL?
If i was in fbh's bracket for busan qualifiers, i wouldve done it just like fbh can. Dont bring up my name and talk about skills when you dont know much.
Dude, all I'm saying is that there are a ton of Koreans who also didn't qualify for ASL who are all high in skill, but they can't arbitrarily increase their skill... Am I wrong?
Also, you ask for your name to not be brought up because you think it's BM and you simultaneously bring up someone else's name and say you are much better than them and they basically only made it due to an easy bracket?
no. There are not a ton of Koreans who didn't qualify for ASL who are in high level. But I agree that they couldn't arbitrarily increase their skills.
I don't recall myself bringing up someone else's names and bragging that I am much better than them. The reason why I started making a comment because you brought up my fucking name and downgrading my effort where I achieved lots of things. Your first 2 sentences from "Why doesn't Scan qualify for ASL? - He simply isn't good enough ~~~" already stopped me from reading all of your words and pulled my trigger.
On November 02 2017 23:39 aiwekas wrote: i think its stupid call firebathero who already win this tourn before start.gl hf
Going in with this attitude is why foreigners will never beat koreans. This is a LAN setting, no lag. If there's a perfect time for a foreigner to train and win it would be now.
Also I hope people are not this negative about my casting with Sayle, it's not very nice to Cadenza who is a) sick and b) doing imo a damn good job from the vods I saw yesterday.
what the hell re u talking about qikz? how is possible that people that cant reach b- on iccup are always shit talking and spreading statements like this one lol
I didn't mean anything horrible by the statement, but there's a lot of people who say foreigners can't beat koreans because of lag. There's no lag at a LAN.
there is a guy that lived in a pro house for 10 years training with the best players in the world everyday 12 + hours.again.what the hell re u talking about?
you can win against a player of FBH calibre as a foreigner if you do it like Draco and play the right cheese at the right time. Im sure he thought hard about those beforehand and prepared them with FBH in mind. Yeah that doesn't get you better in the long run and you can't cheese every game w/o getting to predictable. But heck, it's a 32k $ prize pool, this is the time to go for winning at all costs if any.
you re a low skill player sorry amigo
you too. You didn't even qualify.
finished top 5,thats a good result i guess.im sure u need 20 years playing non stop and me no playing 19 to you have a 45% chance to win me :/
true, but what has that to do with the point i made? Don't get me wrong, im not the kind of C rank player who wishes to teach good players about builds, timings, meta game or something like that. Im aware that better players are.. well better and thus understand these matters better than me.
However what i said was very broad and we all were able to see the execution today on stream by Draco. Im not theory crafting here. it's factual that a strong foreigner, like Draco or somebody else IS able to take multiple games of AJAE Pro's by preparing specific cheeses for specific maps and executing them well. It will not always work, it will not often work, but we saw it can work.
So, as the player who understand this game better than i do, do me the courtesy of explaining where my thought process went wrong instead of just saying "you noob". I'm not aware i was unfriendly towards you here or that my idea is obviously wrong. if there is something wrong with my logic, im eager to learn what it is tho.
Definitely echoing the sentiment that strong cheeses are how you beat a superior player. That's not even debatable imo. If you are a slightly inferior player then you can increase your chances at winning through instead playing extra greedy because the superior player expects a cheese, but this is far more applicable to pvt or zvp than it is to zvt. (in pvz, protoss needs extra cannons and delayed units to be cheese-safe, in tvp terran needs extra turrets, both limit their ability to be aggressive and punish your economic style of play, but in tvz a superior player adding one or two extra bunkers hardly delays the aggression, certainly not in a comparable fashion. )
On November 03 2017 00:00 [sc1f]eonzerg wrote: context matters.im sure if u invited a korean from ladder 3000 mmr u will be abble to watch good games in live stage.where online a terran player will obviously laughs at the zerg .but this is a waste of time arguing with low skill players viewers.any high lvl player will understand it.
Sorry for having an opinion eon. I'll be sure to increase my MMR next time I want to talk with anyone.
I wasn't trying to insult you or anyone else.
He has a point, if you can't arbitrarily increase your skill, then what makes you think the top foreigners can? You can train for 2 weeks without dramatically increasing your skill level. You asking the top foreigner players to beat top level Koreans is like me asking you to beat top level foreigners, it just won't happen. Sure, you can train, but your opponent is also training... Yes, you have work and other commitments, so do top foreigners.
Compare this to foreigners vs Koreans... If eonzerg (or any other foreigner) went full time, he needs to close the skill gap against another player who is much better than him and who is already playing full time, improving their own skills against better opponents in a better environment (in the same environment it would be tough).
Why doesn't Scan qualify for ASL? - He simply isn't good enough, he can't arbitrarily increase his skill by sheer power of will... Expecting someone to do so is ridiculous, the progress is gradual, but you're competing against other players who are also progressing their skill.
I mean, if you're looking for that one-time snipe and not actually a level playing field, then that might be achievable, but it's kind of a silly goal.
LOL?
If i was in fbh's bracket for busan qualifiers, i wouldve done it just like fbh can. Dont bring up my name and talk about skills when you dont know much.
Dude, all I'm saying is that there are a ton of Koreans who also didn't qualify for ASL who are all high in skill, but they can't arbitrarily increase their skill... Am I wrong?
Also, you ask for your name to not be brought up because you think it's BM and you simultaneously bring up someone else's name and say you are much better than them and they basically only made it due to an easy bracket?
no. There are not a ton of Koreans who didn't qualify for ASL who are in high level. But I agree that they couldn't arbitrarily increase their skills.
I don't recall myself bringing up someone else's names and bragging that I am much better than them. The reason why I started making a comment because you brought up my fucking name and downgrading my effort where I achieved lots of things. Your first 2 sentences from "Why doesn't Scan qualify for ASL? - He simply isn't good enough ~~~" already stopped me from reading all of your words and pulled my trigger.
Yeah, I don't mean any disrespect, you're obviously incredibly high skilled to even be in the conversation. I just meant it as I explained the second time.
Bro watched some games JD vs FBH. JD won but if was not an easy win for him, at all. This guy have so advantage. I better not even try it in my best shape =)
On November 03 2017 00:57 g0rynich wrote: Bro watched some games JD vs FBH. JD won but if was not an easy win for him, at all. This guy have so advantage. I better not even try it in my best shape =)
Well played that game 1 vs draco was something else really.
On November 03 2017 00:00 [sc1f]eonzerg wrote: context matters.im sure if u invited a korean from ladder 3000 mmr u will be abble to watch good games in live stage.where online a terran player will obviously laughs at the zerg .but this is a waste of time arguing with low skill players viewers.any high lvl player will understand it.
Sorry for having an opinion eon. I'll be sure to increase my MMR next time I want to talk with anyone.
I wasn't trying to insult you or anyone else.
He has a point, if you can't arbitrarily increase your skill, then what makes you think the top foreigners can? You can train for 2 weeks without dramatically increasing your skill level. You asking the top foreigner players to beat top level Koreans is like me asking you to beat top level foreigners, it just won't happen. Sure, you can train, but your opponent is also training... Yes, you have work and other commitments, so do top foreigners.
Compare this to foreigners vs Koreans... If eonzerg (or any other foreigner) went full time, he needs to close the skill gap against another player who is much better than him and who is already playing full time, improving their own skills against better opponents in a better environment (in the same environment it would be tough).
Why doesn't Scan qualify for ASL? - He simply isn't good enough, he can't arbitrarily increase his skill by sheer power of will... Expecting someone to do so is ridiculous, the progress is gradual, but you're competing against other players who are also progressing their skill.
I mean, if you're looking for that one-time snipe and not actually a level playing field, then that might be achievable, but it's kind of a silly goal.
LOL?
If i was in fbh's bracket for busan qualifiers, i wouldve done it just like fbh can. Dont bring up my name and talk about skills when you dont know much.
Dude, all I'm saying is that there are a ton of Koreans who also didn't qualify for ASL who are all high in skill, but they can't arbitrarily increase their skill... Am I wrong?
Also, you ask for your name to not be brought up because you think it's BM and you simultaneously bring up someone else's name and say you are much better than them and they basically only made it due to an easy bracket?
no. There are not a ton of Koreans who didn't qualify for ASL who are in high level. But I agree that they couldn't arbitrarily increase their skills.
I don't recall myself bringing up someone else's names and bragging that I am much better than them. The reason why I started making a comment because you brought up my fucking name and downgrading my effort where I achieved lots of things. Your first 2 sentences from "Why doesn't Scan qualify for ASL? - He simply isn't good enough ~~~" already stopped me from reading all of your words and pulled my trigger.
Yeah, I don't mean any disrespect, you're obviously incredibly high skilled to even be in the conversation. I just meant it as I explained the second time.
Ok. Thx for understanding, and I'm not an incredibly, high skilled player
On November 02 2017 23:39 aiwekas wrote: i think its stupid call firebathero who already win this tourn before start.gl hf
Going in with this attitude is why foreigners will never beat koreans. This is a LAN setting, no lag. If there's a perfect time for a foreigner to train and win it would be now.
Also I hope people are not this negative about my casting with Sayle, it's not very nice to Cadenza who is a) sick and b) doing imo a damn good job from the vods I saw yesterday.
what the hell re u talking about qikz? how is possible that people that cant reach b- on iccup are always shit talking and spreading statements like this one lol
I didn't mean anything horrible by the statement, but there's a lot of people who say foreigners can't beat koreans because of lag. There's no lag at a LAN.
there is a guy that lived in a pro house for 10 years training with the best players in the world everyday 12 + hours.again.what the hell re u talking about?
you can win against a player of FBH calibre as a foreigner if you do it like Draco and play the right cheese at the right time. Im sure he thought hard about those beforehand and prepared them with FBH in mind. Yeah that doesn't get you better in the long run and you can't cheese every game w/o getting to predictable. But heck, it's a 32k $ prize pool, this is the time to go for winning at all costs if any.
you re a low skill player sorry amigo
you too. You didn't even qualify.
finished top 5,thats a good result i guess.im sure u need 20 years playing non stop and me no playing 19 to you have a 45% chance to win me :/
Really awesome event! Thanks so much for organizing it! Fun games, great production value, amazing venue, really great casting! Props to Sayle and Cadenza, they made for a great duo — Cadenza had great game-knowledge, made good points, and she added a very welcome splash of colour to the event. Sayle and KogeT was also a great pairing, KogeT has the most amazing game knowledge and apparently he is really good at casting too: good synergy with Sayle and has a dynamic, fluent, knowledgeable and exciting way of talking. He did disregard a few rules of standard English ("he could went", "he did researched", etc), but to be honest it wasn't bothersome in the least, because of his fluency, good vocabulary and the above mentioned qualities (-- perhaps it was even a positive addition, similar to Cadenza's lovely Scottish accent).
So once again big props to the players, organisers, casters, cameramen, announcers and ESL gaming -- hopefully this event was a success and we get to see more of you in the future!
Special shoutout to Sayle who most of us have followed on his caster's journey for a long time now -- thanks Sayle for providing us with countless hours of entertainment throughout the years, for being with us through thick and thin, for the pure, genuine passion for this special game. What a great and professional caster you have become, just casually throwing it out there in the first few minutes that this is, in fact, your first live appearence! Keep being the great, funny, witty and passionate person that you are.
Yeah baby! :D Realy fantastic tournament, congrulation FBH, Gorynich and Draco! Thank's so much ESL <3 I hope, there will be a lot of tournaments on the Star Craft Remastered!
On November 03 2017 02:04 Ty2 wrote: I know people are saying there's no chance for gorynich to have beaten firebathero....but when you have gorynich expressing everything but confidence what can you rlly expect hah. I have been in his shoes before and at that point when you're entering a series like that, losing becomes a formality. You play with a really subdued mindset that's too caught up with being awestruck by the player you perceive as insurmountably better as opposed to playing with the mindset of a true champion to make the series a domination. You've gotta go into the game with a Jaedong mindset. Honestly, from what I saw of FBH against gorynich I wasn't particularly impressed. That is easy for me to say though and I can't truly say what it felt like for gory to play FBH or what FBH's performance was like from his perspective.
Good tournament and great production, though not sure why it was played on a Thursday midday and not a weekend at a later time, as it would've attracted a bigger audience.
On November 03 2017 02:04 Ty2 wrote: I know people are saying there's no chance for gorynich to have beaten firebathero....but when you have gorynich expressing everything but confidence what can you rlly expect hah. I have been in his shoes before and at that point when you're entering a series like that, losing becomes a formality. You play with a really subdued mindset that's too caught up with being awestruck by the player you perceive as insurmountably better as opposed to playing with the mindset of a true champion to make the series a domination. You've gotta go into the game with a Jaedong mindset. Honestly, from what I saw of FBH against gorynich I wasn't particularly impressed. That is easy for me to say though and I can't truly say what it felt like for gory to play FBH or what FBH's performance was like from his perspective.
Guys you gotta understand you only look as good as your opponents lets you! This is very important and people don't seem to recognize it. Playing high level koreans almost everyone would look pathetic. No matter what rank you are you feel the difference and dominiance of a higher skilled player. Realistically only toss has a small chance as Draco showed to even take a game or two from someone. On the other hand i think ZvT its pretty much mission impossible.
Starcraft is mainly a game of skill rather than luck. Maybe not as extreme as chess for instance but pretty damn close. I feel as if only ZvP and PvT are the matchups where people have somewhat of a chance for an upset. Lets say you give me scan i would say atm i have a 5% chance to win or less but give me bisu on CB with my hand on my heart i would say i have a 20-30% chance. Its just that in some matchups the gap is way bigger.
On November 03 2017 01:11 fazek42 wrote: Really awesome event! Thanks so much for organizing it! Fun games, great production value, amazing venue, really great casting! Props to Sayle and Cadenza, they made for a great duo — Cadenza had great game-knowledge, made good points, and she added a very welcome splash of colour to the event. Sayle and KogeT was also a great pairing, KogeT has the most amazing game knowledge and apparently he is really good at casting too: good synergy with Sayle and has a dynamic, fluent, knowledgeable and exciting way of talking. He did disregard a few rules of standard English ("he could went", "he did researched", etc), but to be honest it wasn't bothersome in the least, because of his fluency, good vocabulary and the above mentioned qualities (-- perhaps it was even a positive addition, similar to Cadenza's lovely Scottish accent).
So once again big props to the players, organisers, casters, cameramen, announcers and ESL gaming -- hopefully this event was a success and we get to see more of you in the future!
Special shoutout to Sayle who most of us have followed on his caster's journey for a long time now -- thanks Sayle for providing us with countless hours of entertainment throughout the years, for being with us through thick and thin, for the pure, genuine passion for this special game. What a great and professional caster you have become, just casually throwing it out there in the first few minutes that this is, in fact, your first live appearence! Keep being the great, funny, witty and passionate person that you are.
Sayle's Teamliquid star is long overdue. He literally saved english Broodwar casting during the Dark Ages.
On November 03 2017 02:04 Ty2 wrote: I know people are saying there's no chance for gorynich to have beaten firebathero....but when you have gorynich expressing everything but confidence what can you rlly expect hah. I have been in his shoes before and at that point when you're entering a series like that, losing becomes a formality. You play with a really subdued mindset that's too caught up with being awestruck by the player you perceive as insurmountably better as opposed to playing with the mindset of a true champion to make the series a domination. You've gotta go into the game with a Jaedong mindset. Honestly, from what I saw of FBH against gorynich I wasn't particularly impressed. That is easy for me to say though and I can't truly say what it felt like for gory to play FBH or what FBH's performance was like from his perspective.
Lets say i have jd in my heart but also i have a realistic point of view. I saw what JD did and how he did to win fbh in series. For no one outside korea it is possible. You may have any fighting spirit within you but you just outmicroed outmacroed outmechanized etc. I played good i think. May be not 100% of me effort but definely above 80%. Just thats another level of game in which i really dont know how to win.
Besides my tvz i think is really bad. May be trutacz eon or ret would take some games.
On November 03 2017 01:11 fazek42 wrote: Really awesome event! Thanks so much for organizing it! Fun games, great production value, amazing venue, really great casting! Props to Sayle and Cadenza, they made for a great duo — Cadenza had great game-knowledge, made good points, and she added a very welcome splash of colour to the event. Sayle and KogeT was also a great pairing, KogeT has the most amazing game knowledge and apparently he is really good at casting too: good synergy with Sayle and has a dynamic, fluent, knowledgeable and exciting way of talking. He did disregard a few rules of standard English ("he could went", "he did researched", etc), but to be honest it wasn't bothersome in the least, because of his fluency, good vocabulary and the above mentioned qualities (-- perhaps it was even a positive addition, similar to Cadenza's lovely Scottish accent).
So once again big props to the players, organisers, casters, cameramen, announcers and ESL gaming -- hopefully this event was a success and we get to see more of you in the future!
Special shoutout to Sayle who most of us have followed on his caster's journey for a long time now -- thanks Sayle for providing us with countless hours of entertainment throughout the years, for being with us through thick and thin, for the pure, genuine passion for this special game. What a great and professional caster you have become, just casually throwing it out there in the first few minutes that this is, in fact, your first live appearence! Keep being the great, funny, witty and passionate person that you are.
Sayle's Teamliquid star is long overdue. He literally saved english Broodwar casting during the Dark Ages.
On November 03 2017 01:11 fazek42 wrote: Really awesome event! Thanks so much for organizing it! Fun games, great production value, amazing venue, really great casting! Props to Sayle and Cadenza, they made for a great duo — Cadenza had great game-knowledge, made good points, and she added a very welcome splash of colour to the event. Sayle and KogeT was also a great pairing, KogeT has the most amazing game knowledge and apparently he is really good at casting too: good synergy with Sayle and has a dynamic, fluent, knowledgeable and exciting way of talking. He did disregard a few rules of standard English ("he could went", "he did researched", etc), but to be honest it wasn't bothersome in the least, because of his fluency, good vocabulary and the above mentioned qualities (-- perhaps it was even a positive addition, similar to Cadenza's lovely Scottish accent).
So once again big props to the players, organisers, casters, cameramen, announcers and ESL gaming -- hopefully this event was a success and we get to see more of you in the future!
Special shoutout to Sayle who most of us have followed on his caster's journey for a long time now -- thanks Sayle for providing us with countless hours of entertainment throughout the years, for being with us through thick and thin, for the pure, genuine passion for this special game. What a great and professional caster you have become, just casually throwing it out there in the first few minutes that this is, in fact, your first live appearence! Keep being the great, funny, witty and passionate person that you are.
Sayle's Teamliquid star is long overdue. He literally saved english Broodwar casting during the Dark Ages.
Can't second this enough.
+1 to this. We all <3 Sayle for what he's done for the BW community.
I think if there are 2 matchups that are pretty much impossible to win vs progamers of that lvl its ZvT and TvP... also maybe some people underestimate FBH now but he was pretty active at the top lvl until almost the final days of BW. Maybe if they invited someone like Nada a foreigner would have a shot at winning :D
On November 03 2017 01:11 fazek42 wrote: Really awesome event! Thanks so much for organizing it! Fun games, great production value, amazing venue, really great casting! Props to Sayle and Cadenza, they made for a great duo — Cadenza had great game-knowledge, made good points, and she added a very welcome splash of colour to the event. Sayle and KogeT was also a great pairing, KogeT has the most amazing game knowledge and apparently he is really good at casting too: good synergy with Sayle and has a dynamic, fluent, knowledgeable and exciting way of talking. He did disregard a few rules of standard English ("he could went", "he did researched", etc), but to be honest it wasn't bothersome in the least, because of his fluency, good vocabulary and the above mentioned qualities (-- perhaps it was even a positive addition, similar to Cadenza's lovely Scottish accent).
So once again big props to the players, organisers, casters, cameramen, announcers and ESL gaming -- hopefully this event was a success and we get to see more of you in the future!
Special shoutout to Sayle who most of us have followed on his caster's journey for a long time now -- thanks Sayle for providing us with countless hours of entertainment throughout the years, for being with us through thick and thin, for the pure, genuine passion for this special game. What a great and professional caster you have become, just casually throwing it out there in the first few minutes that this is, in fact, your first live appearence! Keep being the great, funny, witty and passionate person that you are.
Well said! I agree with everything here, thanks for the event it was great!
sorry if i wrong guys but i think guys so many tourney lost so many viewers cuz of koreans cuz no point watch stream if u know he will win.just wasting your time.european ppl train hard (eon/tru/bon/dew and others)to play tourn like this and u kill any tourney with koreans (scan,shinee,firebathero,miso) sorry if i wrong but thats what i think + i never watch any stream if these koreans play vs ppl from europe.i think we must learn from TL tourney and send koreans to koreans tourneys gl hf
i think its stupid to say its amazing tourney when u know who will win plz..............................................................................................
On November 03 2017 03:51 aiwekas wrote: sorry if i wrong guys but i think guys so many tourney lost so many viewers cuz of koreans cuz no point watch stream if u know he will win.just wasting your time.european ppl train hard (eon/tru/bon/dew and others)to play tourn like this and u kill any tourney with koreans (scan,shinee,firebathero,miso) sorry if i wrong but thats what i think + i never watch any stream if these koreans play vs ppl from europe.i think we must learn from TL tourney and send koreans to koreans tourneys gl hf
Totally agree! Major flaw in the tourney. Not the only one unfortunately.
On November 03 2017 03:51 aiwekas wrote: sorry if i wrong guys but i think guys so many tourney lost so many viewers cuz of koreans cuz no point watch stream if u know he will win.just wasting your time.european ppl train hard (eon/tru/bon/dew and others)to play tourn like this and u kill any tourney with koreans (scan,shinee,firebathero,miso) sorry if i wrong but thats what i think + i never watch any stream if these koreans play vs ppl from europe.i think we must learn from TL tourney and send koreans to koreans tourneys gl hf
Totally agree! Major flaw in the tourney. Not the only one unfortunately.
Agreed. I'm all for allowing Koreans in SOME tournaments, but for a big scale offline tourney that's held in Europe? I would have rather seen 8 of the top Europeans batting it out.
On November 03 2017 02:26 ReTr0[p.S] wrote: Good tournament and great production, though not sure why it was played on a Thursday midday and not a weekend at a later time, as it would've attracted a bigger audience.
The Italian Esports Open is not SCR only, in the next few days there will be a Quake Champions tournament and an Overwatch event, so we weren't the focus I guess. Also there's Blizzcon now, so it wouldn't be wise to put the SCR tournament in the very same days as the WCS finals
Yup, Quake Champions is tomorrow and Saturday, and Overwatch is on Sunday. SC: Remastered finished the day before the Blizzcon opening ceremony. Probably not a coincidence
Hello from the gang! See you (well, I will, anyway!) tomorrow for Quake. :D
On November 03 2017 03:51 aiwekas wrote: sorry if i wrong guys but i think guys so many tourney lost so many viewers cuz of koreans cuz no point watch stream if u know he will win.just wasting your time.european ppl train hard (eon/tru/bon/dew and others)to play tourn like this and u kill any tourney with koreans (scan,shinee,firebathero,miso) sorry if i wrong but thats what i think + i never watch any stream if these koreans play vs ppl from europe.i think we must learn from TL tourney and send koreans to koreans tourneys gl hf
Totally agree! Major flaw in the tourney. Not the only one unfortunately.
I didn't see other games than Morrow vs Notforu, but Draco went 2-3 vs FBH so it's not like FBH just came to collect easy win!
Anyways thanks for the casters and ESL for the great tournament, I hope we get to see more in the future
On November 03 2017 04:47 oDieN[Siege] wrote: Sayle and kogeT did a great job casting yesterday! Obs was a tad bit better last night than the first night, but still needs some work.
I think need some context regarding the observing of this tournament, I was the observer for the first and second day and a half then got fired and kogeT took over.
The main stream was the italian one and I could only hear from them regarding the calls during the game, I had no way to listen to the english cast of the tournament and what they were talking about. The video feed was the same for both streams, also had to adapt because the player cameras were covering half of the screen during the game and some things were impossible to shown.
Ive seen this stomp before However firebathero is not flash and since draco went 3-2 against him he is definitely beatable. The mindset of most foreigneers was just "oh we better just prepare for the other players and leave FBH take the title". Its true that its pretty much handicaped match but still its a competition and price is high. Hats off for Draco, that was unexpected.
On November 03 2017 03:51 aiwekas wrote: sorry if i wrong guys but i think guys so many tourney lost so many viewers cuz of koreans cuz no point watch stream if u know he will win.just wasting your time.european ppl train hard (eon/tru/bon/dew and others)to play tourn like this and u kill any tourney with koreans (scan,shinee,firebathero,miso) sorry if i wrong but thats what i think + i never watch any stream if these koreans play vs ppl from europe.i think we must learn from TL tourney and send koreans to koreans tourneys gl hf
Totally agree! Major flaw in the tourney. Not the only one unfortunately.
I didn't see other games than Morrow vs Notforu, but Draco went 2-3 vs FBH so it's not like FBH just came to collect easy win!
Anyways thanks for the casters and ESL for the great tournament, I hope we get to see more in the future
On November 03 2017 02:04 Ty2 wrote: I know people are saying there's no chance for gorynich to have beaten firebathero....but when you have gorynich expressing everything but confidence what can you rlly expect hah. I have been in his shoes before and at that point when you're entering a series like that, losing becomes a formality. You play with a really subdued mindset that's too caught up with being awestruck by the player you perceive as insurmountably better as opposed to playing with the mindset of a true champion to make the series a domination. You've gotta go into the game with a Jaedong mindset. Honestly, from what I saw of FBH against gorynich I wasn't particularly impressed. That is easy for me to say though and I can't truly say what it felt like for gory to play FBH or what FBH's performance was like from his perspective.
Guys you gotta understand you only look as good as your opponents lets you! This is very important and people don't seem to recognize it. Playing high level koreans almost everyone would look pathetic. No matter what rank you are you feel the difference and dominiance of a higher skilled player. Realistically only toss has a small chance as Draco showed to even take a game or two from someone. On the other hand i think ZvT its pretty much mission impossible.
Starcraft is mainly a game of skill rather than luck. Maybe not as extreme as chess for instance but pretty damn close. I feel as if only ZvP and PvT are the matchups where people have somewhat of a chance for an upset. Lets say you give me scan i would say atm i have a 5% chance to win or less but give me bisu on CB with my hand on my heart i would say i have a 20-30% chance. Its just that in some matchups the gap is way bigger.
On November 03 2017 04:46 JoRoSaR wrote: Yup, Quake Champions is tomorrow and Saturday, and Overwatch is on Sunday. SC: Remastered finished the day before the Blizzcon opening ceremony. Probably not a coincidence
Hello from the gang! See you (well, I will, anyway!) tomorrow for Quake. :D
You also got the italian legend NeV aka Pastalpesto aka OrsoBalorso there! Nice
I'm happy for FirebatHero, i will never forget his beach ceremony during the Proleague Finals almost 10 years ago (damn!). It's cool that ESL paid him a holiday in Italy as a parting gift for a great pro.
On November 03 2017 04:46 JoRoSaR wrote: Yup, Quake Champions is tomorrow and Saturday, and Overwatch is on Sunday. SC: Remastered finished the day before the Blizzcon opening ceremony. Probably not a coincidence
Hello from the gang! See you (well, I will, anyway!) tomorrow for Quake. :D
Meeting all you guys was a great experience! I will never forget this day =) Thanks to Firebathero, who was unbelievably kind and down to earth and offered to pay dinner for everyone.
Sayle, Candenzie and Koget did great casting. Sayle good as always, Cadenzie seemed a lot more comfortable than on day one, Koget just great, I had the feeling if you give him just the minimap and tell him which colour is which player he could cast the whole match with only that flawlessly.
Observing was still bad BUT a lot better than on day 1 (much less zooming around), so at least improvements there. And thanks again to Koget for taking over obsing for the later games. Draco taking FBH to a game 5 was definitly the highlight for me. Though over all I'am bit sad when I think about how amazing this tournament could have been for the foreign scene if it was via qualifiers only, just imagine eon, trutacz, sziky, Terr0r, Bonyth and the others being there with Koget, notforu and some oldschoolers.
On November 03 2017 04:46 JoRoSaR wrote: Yup, Quake Champions is tomorrow and Saturday, and Overwatch is on Sunday. SC: Remastered finished the day before the Blizzcon opening ceremony. Probably not a coincidence
Hello from the gang! See you (well, I will, anyway!) tomorrow for Quake. :D
On November 03 2017 03:51 aiwekas wrote: sorry if i wrong guys but i think guys so many tourney lost so many viewers cuz of koreans cuz no point watch stream if u know he will win.just wasting your time.european ppl train hard (eon/tru/bon/dew and others)to play tourn like this and u kill any tourney with koreans (scan,shinee,firebathero,miso) sorry if i wrong but thats what i think + i never watch any stream if these koreans play vs ppl from europe.i think we must learn from TL tourney and send koreans to koreans tourneys gl hf
Totally agree! Major flaw in the tourney. Not the only one unfortunately.
I didn't see other games than Morrow vs Notforu, but Draco went 2-3 vs FBH so it's not like FBH just came to collect easy win!
Anyways thanks for the casters and ESL for the great tournament, I hope we get to see more in the future
Because Draco was in a Korean B-Team, somehow he is a progamer like fbh but still not in the same class even if the result was 3-2 the timings and everything else from fbh so pro..., i still dont get it, i like him i love terrans but he earns not bad from streaming i think and other ppl, player, should get the money
NonY was eliminated in day1 and decided to see some sights for day2. He was on stage playing a Showmatch that ran after the event since it officially ended earlier, but that was not on the stream.
On November 03 2017 04:46 JoRoSaR wrote: Yup, Quake Champions is tomorrow and Saturday, and Overwatch is on Sunday. SC: Remastered finished the day before the Blizzcon opening ceremony. Probably not a coincidence
Hello from the gang! See you (well, I will, anyway!) tomorrow for Quake. :D
So... NonY wasn't in Italy at all?
You nearly got us all. Nice one, ESL.
Community is the heart of Esports! You guys keep rocking!
Hey guys! I've read through all the comments in this thread and appreciate all the kind words and constructive criticism. I'll be doing an unofficial replay cast tomorrow of all the games that were not shown on the main stream. I'll also spend some time afterwards to talk about my experience at the event and answer any questions you guys might have. I'm planning to start the stream around 19:00 GMT (+00:00) tomorrow (Saturday).
On November 04 2017 04:16 Cryoc wrote: The commentary was really top notch, especially when Koget joined the cast. Tastosis could learn something from that.
Yea Koget is a natural at casting. He should do it more often. Sayle ofcourse did a good job as always and Cadenza improved.
This was a wonderful event for me and I'm really happy I was able to meet all the players and casters. I'll leave a few words about everyone because even though the tournament didn't last long I really felt connected to everybody. Starcraft brings together people even after 20 years
Koget - really outgoing, funny and smart guy. For some reason before this tournament I thought he would be quiet and introverted but in truth he is the kind of guy who always improves your social experience and provides quality company.
FirebatHero + girlfriend - I was really impressed at how well they both speak english. FBH is a brilliant man in many aspects and he was also humble and incredibly friendly. FBH's GF also is an out of the ordinary person and every interaction with them was incredibly smooth and pleasurable.
Morrow - he's my pupil at poker and I love this guy a lot. He just comes and crushes the group even though everybody thought he was an underdog. He is in trollmode 24/7.
Draco - other than being a great player he's a very interesting guy. He has a lot of interesting/uncommon opinions and seems to think a lot about everything. He might have given years ago the impression he's an aloof guy but in real life he's all smiles and is nice to everybody.
Notforu - calm and collected guy. Once you start speaking to him you can find how many things he knows and how much of a man he is. He has several interests and is a guy that likes to go deep and is very knowledgeable about everything he talks about. I really wish I had a friend like him, unfortunately we are really far away and both my and his spoken english aren't nearly as good as our main language :\
Nony - after he defeated me in that tournament years ago I really respect this guy. He mostly kept to himself but it was evident that once he becomes familiar with people he is a very likeable fellow. I wish his games were streamed but Sayle saves the day and is going to cast them soon!
Pro - probably unknown to most of you guys, he used to be one of the best italian players of all times and he did really well in his matches against Draco. I got to know him personally aswell and I'm happy I had the opportunity to do so.
Jorosar - natural born showman. Other than being an impressive host he's the guy that brings life to the party (just like Koget). In my opinion he does a terrific job and he deserves to be invited to more eSports events. Also he loves italian food so much that I know nothing about it compared to him.
Sayle - I didn't manage to hear him casting with Cadenzie at the tournament but I watched a few of his videos online and I enjoyed them a lot. We didn't speak too much and I would have liked to know him better. I would definitely suggest any Starcraft fan to watch his cast.
Cadenzie - she was interesting to talk to and the fact she only plays seriously from february and manages to have her current mmr is impressive to me. I would have also liked to know her better but there wasn't much time and she is super shy. I will definitely watch some of her casts with Sayle in the following days.
Hopefully there will be one more event like this in the future. I have to say I was a bit disappointed ret wasn't there and I would have loved to see what kind of performance he could give and how far he would have gone in the tournament. Other than this I feel lucky I got to take part to the event and I also hope other people managed to enjoy it as much as I did.
A really, really great initiative having a sponsored LAN event with such a big prize pool. Awesome for the scene.
At the same time, the great prize pool doesn't automatically justify how poorly this event was managed. There are quite a lot of things that could have, and should have, been handled a lot better. The overall impression was that the whole event was made by people who didn't really have a passion for, or knowledge of, the game. This was shown quite clearly on how they changed the map pool and handled the invites and so on. What was the purpose of inviting big names (from the past)? Probably to draw viewers right? Then, why not cast a single game from NonY? Some things just didn't make sense and made the event feel unorganized.
Either way, it's always easier to write about things that could have been better. Overall I'm all for the initiative and I hope we get more in the future and that organizers take some constructive critisism to make it better!
I want to give a special thanks to kogeT who managed to bring the broadcast up quite a few notches in professionalism, really awesome work on your casting and observing. I think CadenZie was doing alright, but was maybe not the right person to cast such a big event. Sayle was doing fine as always and works great together with a more knowledgeable analyst by his side.
Also I want to mention that it's my subjective opinion that top players of today deserves a bit... more. These guys are driven by the pure passion for the game and have rarely seen any real money go their way. More tournaments should be dedicated to these people who kept brood war alive in the foreign scene when everyone else left. It's a shame these guys had to fight through a ruthless qualification to let only two of them participate in the tourney and then inviting a korean progamer to snatch the biggest price foreign brood war has seen in many years. Quite ironically, FBH's ceremonies were spot on. Thank you for my money=) <3 FBH though.
EPT![[image loading]](https://i.imgur.com/758Okgz.png)
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NeV won again in the Italian Qualifier, gg! Also worth noting that 
eonZerg and ![[image loading]](https://i.imgur.com/x6K3cfF.jpg)
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TLS![[image loading]](https://scontent-mxp1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t31.0-8/22382058_10155873679804225_1237195273221753355_o.png?oh=d590b391a4b1f1ffacca2566e5f732ce&oe=5A80B9AA)
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