Well I cant even do what savior did here, because I wont know my opponent until after ive selected a race. And my point still stands that all major foreign tournaments have allowed it

rauk

United States2228 Posts

August 24 2017 18:56 GMT

#182

yea but savior wasn't playing in a team league when he did that. idk what nationscup/iccupcl/etc did for team leagues but did they really have you send lineups without the race of the player in question? seems like if you're trying to do a PL style league, it makes sense that you should be rewarded for strategizing for the maps; if you think you can snipe the other team's toss by playing Z on a map you should submit your race as Z

FyRe_DragOn

Canada2056 Posts

August 24 2017 19:04 GMT

#183

This isnt about sniping other players, its about being able to play the matchups that ive played for my whole bw "career". Ive played in every team league and nation league since sc2 came out, and they all allowed racepicking. ICCupCL, GambitsCup, SWBINationleague, ICCupNationleague, maybe even others that im forgetting. There was never any issue of racepicking, and plenty of players did it.

EndingLife

United States1598 Posts

August 24 2017 19:29 GMT

#184

On August 25 2017 03:01 Psyonic_Reaver wrote:
Name a major tournament that has allowed it.

Blizzcon?
WCS?
ESL?
Redbull?
Dreamhack?
WCG?
MSL?
OSL?
GSL?

I get that this tournament is for fun but I've stated this clearly that it would be following a ProLeague format. This is how I am running it.

Now drop it everyone and start practicing. This is my last post regarding the issue.

I'm pretty sure almost ALL foreign tournaments in the past allowed race-picking. You seem to be confusing Korean tournaments with foreign tournaments of the past.

Jealous

10256 Posts

August 24 2017 19:42 GMT

#185

This seems to be turning into the same thing we saw with HAY/FilthyCup and Scan. If the admin said "this is how it is," and then answered your complaints and then said "this is how it will remain," then the ball is in your court to either play or not play I think? Filthy got so frustrated with the community posting non-stop about Scan that he stopped running his tournaments. Maybe we can learn from that experience and not pester the admins of leagues after they have already heard your complaints and given a response? This is his tournament, he is putting in work and money. This isn't Nation League 2 or whatever, it's something totally separate and run by a different person.

Personally, as Dragon knows with CPL, I don't have a problem with race-picking or switching or whatever. I do understand where you're coming from. And so does he I am sure - but you have to respect his decision about his league.

Ultimately I think this might be for the best. Blizzard is unlikely to implement race picking into ladder, ladder is likely going to be the measuring stick for the future, so this definitely falls in line with that AND latter-day ProLeague, which Psy said is his intent. Try to see the positives. If not, then to play or not to play is still your choice.

sicklucker

Canada16987 Posts

August 24 2017 21:01 GMT

#186

i pretty but played random and race picking my whole bw career I competed in top teams nation leagues and was A icup

sicklucker

Canada16987 Posts

August 24 2017 21:01 GMT

#187

AND YOU NERDS ARE MAKING ME PLAY ZVT YOU CUCKS

sicklucker

Canada16987 Posts

August 24 2017 21:02 GMT

#188

but i dont really mind it for this format. not much you can do

sicklucker

Canada16987 Posts

August 24 2017 21:06 GMT

#189

race picking is a thing but its also something your allowed to exploit. For example whenever I knew I was vs a race picker I would always random. I cheesed my way through round one of tsl with that shit

sicklucker

Canada16987 Posts

August 24 2017 21:10 GMT

#190

do you think the host is gonna let me submit zerg. UNLESS IM VS AS RACE PICKER. with a note in the lineups.

No you just gotta submit one race in this format. This is not a new format for foreigners either west had a clan league where you had to do that

User was warned for this post

sicklucker

Canada16987 Posts

August 25 2017 00:59 GMT

#191

why was i warned..

oh...

lumire3

1 Post

August 25 2017 02:33 GMT

#192

Korean tournaments actually allowed race picking when given a weeks notice.

Savior actually picked Terran vs Gorush in an MSL.

Julyzerg also went random in proleague a while back.

Those are just the ones I know about.

Jealous

10256 Posts

August 25 2017 05:32 GMT

#193

On August 25 2017 11:33 lumire3 wrote:
Korean tournaments actually allowed race picking when given a weeks notice.

Savior actually picked Terran vs Gorush in an MSL. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J7LMb3cxouY

Julyzerg also went random in proleague a while back. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mwsrKsR3jg4

Those are just the ones I know about.

The difference is that in these cases, as briefly mentioned before, is

a) they knew their opponent ahead of time and thus he didn't "racepick" in the sense of a blanket "I always TvZ" but he submitted it like "I know I am facing GoRush, so I am submitting T for this match." Both parties got adequate notice of this fact and I don't think it's comparable because Savior submitting ONE race for a pre-determined match doesn't have much bearing on this format.

b) there was some weird rule (according to someone else in the thread) that you couldn't send two of the same race back to back, or something. Also not applicable.

It should be noted that in latter-day ProLeague, after the matchfixing scandal, there was not a single race-pick in non-event games. This is because line-ups were kept hidden, just as they are in this case.

Can we stop talking about this now? T_T I really don't want to see a repeat of what I mentioned earlier...

Psyonic_Reaver

United States4339 Posts

August 25 2017 06:15 GMT

#194

I've created the PATL Season 1 Thread.
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/bw-tournaments/526165-patl-season-1

The purpose of THAT thread is to keep discussion THERE focused PURELY on smack talk, matches, finding play times, etc. That is also where I'll post lineups and results.

This thread will remain to discuss the league in general and where people can bring their questions for me to answer.

You know I also want to take this moment to thank someone that is not part of our community anymore but is the person that taught me HOW to run tournaments, even if it does not make you popular at times. I watched him run many, many tournaments over the years and if I hadn't, I don't think I would have the heart to attempt this.

Duran "Xeris" Parsi. Thank you.

This guy. This guy has done SO much for the American scene between 2002 and 2014 and it's really sad that there isn't a Liquipedia page on him. He has run SO many tournaments big (NASL) and small (Yankee League).

He used to run weekly, monthly, yearly tournaments ALL the time and I have no idea how he did it. He was considered by MANY players the best Admin to run any tournament, he was often consulted by WCG on how to run the USA tournaments.

He also took a chance on me to cast Yankee League when it first started, arguably him giving me that opportunity lead me to being noticed more and more around the community as a caster. I worked hard to promote myself but I will admit. If Xeris never took the chance on me, I do not think I would have ever gained the popularity that I did that allowed me to participate in the casting crew for THREE WCGs in a row.

Xeris. I deticate this League to you. Wherever you are.

Wadong

16 Posts

August 25 2017 19:09 GMT

#195

Xeris <3. Super excited for this. If I have the extra funds I'll def throw in some $$$, to up the winnings. This is just another step forward for brood war and the community. Thanks psyonic for making this possible!!!

Psyonic_Reaver

United States4339 Posts

August 25 2017 19:28 GMT

#196

SIGN UPS ARE CLOSED.

I will begin seeding teams. Keep an eye on the PATL Season 1 thread for week 1 matches.

Edit: week 1 matches are posted. I've also updated the OP and moved/removed unnecessary information. Check the PATL Season 1 thread for more intimate details pertaining to Season 1. That keeps this thread more in line with how PATL should run OVERALL.

Jealous

10256 Posts

August 25 2017 22:02 GMT

#197

Just want to double check, Random is also not allowed in 2v2? And ZZ is allowed?

Psyonic_Reaver

United States4339 Posts

August 25 2017 23:37 GMT

#198

Random is not allowed in 2v2. I know ProLeague DID technically allow it but I feel it's not fair to ban it for 1v1 and leave it open for 2v2.

BUT

I am open to discussion. If people really feel having 1 Random on each team in 2v2 is fine. I'm okay doing that. (I'll only allow 1 random per team in 2v2s) For week 1 and week 2 Random shall be banned. I will make a decision BEFORE Sept 8th about allowing Randon for 2v2s by Week 3. The poll will decide.

Poll: Allow Random in 2v2, 1 per team?

No (26)

59%

Yes (18)

41%

44 total votes

Your vote: Allow Random in 2v2, 1 per team?

(Vote): Yes
(Vote): No

Jealous

10256 Posts

August 26 2017 03:12 GMT

#199

Random was allowed but this is largely a consequence of ZZ not being allowed in 2s because of imba. If ZZ is allowed then 2v2 should follow the same rules as 1v1 imo. It's because you said you wanted to follow ProLeague format that I ask this, and I know many people out there main in 1v1 but random in 2v2, so I felt it should be asked at least.