That decision from soulkey to send the 8 lings he had in the main down to try to bust seems so silly, those 8 lings could probably have killed the nexus or starport and at least a good few probes.
bisu only had 1 zealot up and it had to stay at choke
bisu looking really sloppy there, the multitasking from soulkey was insane though. If Soulkey had known about the 1 o clock expansion that game ended with the first drop for sure
excellent play from soulkey. really dropped all around bisu and taxed his apm with that triple prong attack. then the muta switch after killing off all the corsairs was beautiful once again.
if only he found that top left base and was able to kill it early on the game would have ended 5 minutes earlier.
Soulkey's build super un-optimized and questionable droning periods that game. Not sure I'm a fan of what just happened. Great control from Bisu to handle that push so well, but I still think Soulkey should have been able to easily hold if he made units on time.
Yeah I think he took the second min only a little too fast and became a little too reliant on static d. I guess he needed to get a little more hydras when he had enough hatcheries to allow for massing the hydras. It would give him more map control at the very least.
On May 30 2017 20:05 EsportsJohn wrote: Soulkey's build super un-optimized and questionable droning periods that game. Not sure I'm a fan of what just happened. Great control from Bisu to handle that push so well, but I still think Soulkey should have been able to easily hold if he made units on time.
This is a bit similar to when protosses die to hydra busts, coz their cannons are 3-4 sec. late. Now soulkey's sunkens/army was several seconds late
On May 30 2017 19:55 Arrian wrote: Looks like another all in from SK. Does he ever do anything else, seriously
It was not an all in. He forced cannon and picked of probes. It was never all or nothing from Soulkey.
i think he said that right when the hydra den went down off 3 hatch. from there i thought it was a pretty easy game win for soulkey as well with the 3 hatch hydra bust since bisu only had 1 cannon and only later got the 2nd and 3rd cannons. very uncharacteristic since soulkey used the next 6 larva on drones and only after got 5-6 hydras.
On May 30 2017 19:55 Arrian wrote: Looks like another all in from SK. Does he ever do anything else, seriously
It was not an all in. He forced cannon and picked of probes. It was never all or nothing from Soulkey.
That's a situational judgment. Any all in can result in damage that equalizes and allows for the stabilization of the game (although that's usually not how it turns out). Arguably, that's exactly what happened in this case. So many cannons and probes killed equaled the damage SK did to himself by not droning. The question is whether an all in was what was intended, and as I said, it looked like an all in. Didn't mean it had to be that way.
On May 30 2017 20:29 M2 wrote: i dont think either bisu or soulkey put a lot of effort into that match, maybe bisu had an advantage since he was preparing vs zerg for the ro4
I think Bisu's mid-game was his focus because he never allowed the game to last far too long. He anticipated SKs pushes and looked to counter with Mantoss gameplay.
Not as climactic as arbiter tech but solid gameplay nontheless. He got the job done. Thats what counts in the end.
I don't normally like trashing series or the efforts of the players, but that series was god awful to me. The only real highlight was that amazing drop play by Soulkey on Outsider...the rest was just all kinds of wtf. Wish we could have seen some better games from two of the best BW players out there right now.
Cost of living in urban areas is far higher in Korea. None of the players make much money off of prizes right now, and very few (if any at all) make money through official sponsorship. Most of them make their money via streaming on Afreeca.
On May 30 2017 20:41 EsportsJohn wrote: Cost of living in urban areas is far higher in Korea. None of the players make much money off of prizes right now, and very few (if any at all) make money through official sponsorship. Most of them make their money via streaming on Afreeca.
SSL is so much better at rewarding the players. Hope SSL and that format will become more popular.
Yeah, the difference between 3rd and 4th was 900$. Still very little money overall. But of course I'm love these guys and would watch them whether they'd be playing for 1 million or bragging right. Just wish they'd get more, a whole lot more.
On May 30 2017 20:57 VioleTAK wrote: Yeah, the difference between 3rd and 4th was 900$. Still very little money overall. But of course I'm love these guys and would watch them whether they'd be playing for 1 million or bragging right. Just wish they'd get more, a whole lot more.
I agree. But in SSL all the 8 players that participated pretty much made a living from it, because you were even rewarded 86 dollar if you lost and it was round rubin so every player got 7 games at least.
Also the majority of their income comes from streaming revenue. So a lot of players are making a living from pretty much just playing BW, thanks to the generous korean fans.
On May 30 2017 20:35 EsportsJohn wrote: I don't normally like trashing series or the efforts of the players, but that series was god awful to me. The only real highlight was that amazing drop play by Soulkey on Outsider...the rest was just all kinds of wtf. Wish we could have seen some better games from two of the best BW players out there right now.
Yeah I agree completely. That series was boring as fuck I think Soulkey is hiding stuff though, because of free. And I would do as well, because he can still win SSL. Would be priority to me.
Well not the best series for sure, but Soulkey didn't have time to prepare so it's understandable. His ZvP has been looking questionable to me since he came back, even in ASL2 he 3 hatch hydra'd Movie and then lost the macro game on EotS. Without Outsider and Andromeda, I can see Free winning their series if he survives the early game
If you want them to make more money then spectators have to pay for it. Afreeca youtube videos in English get like 30k viewers. If from every english viewer they received 3 dollars and 1/3rd went towards the prize pool then tada, we contribute 30k to the players. But alas, we contribute next to nothing to the Korean scene.
On May 30 2017 20:41 EsportsJohn wrote: Cost of living in urban areas is far higher in Korea. None of the players make much money off of prizes right now, and very few (if any at all) make money through official sponsorship. Most of them make their money via streaming on Afreeca.
Depends pretty massively on where in korea and where in US no? I pay 1k a month usd for a 3 bedroom / 2 bath apartment (with a huge livingroom) and its right next to a subway station. 30 min from fairly central seoul.
That would get me like... a sublet room in someone elses apartment in new york I think :D
Although I guess there is a 30k deposit which is partially why rent is so cheap.
Yeah that was a disappointing series. Idk it seems like Soulkey isn't very confident in his zvp. He played very aggressive vs Best and the only reason he won (imo) was because Best was doing a bad job blocking the runby's.
Maybe he's hiding something for free, but I think he might just be struggling with zvp right now going by his ASL ro8 match and this one.
On May 31 2017 01:59 StylishVODs wrote: Maybe I'm way too slow, but this OP really spoiled the results in the Semi-Finals for me.
I would recommend not looking at the tourney section (or really going to BW forums) if you don't want to be spoiled. Those matches were played a few days ago. When I don't want to be spoiled I avoid places that could potentially spoil it.
Nobody ever practices hard for 3rd place matches, and a good player who can expect to go deep in tournaments in the future is incentivized to save whatever good builds he might have anyway. Unfortunately this is about what you can expect from a consolation match, which is a big part of the reason BW mostly stopped doing them.
I don't have any idea why SoulKey decided to bring the lings from the main - where he just broke - back to the natural in game 1? Was this a mistake or just a gamble?
I don't understand why do you people consider those 900$ little money? Do you make comparable to 900$ a day? That is 240k a year, just so that you can have a better feeling.
Series wasn't too bad imo, that Andromeda game felt really close with the bust. With hydra busting being so popular, I think protoss players should anticipate them and make a second cannon then if a bust is coming, try and hold on while you get more.
On May 31 2017 03:46 arbiter_md wrote: I don't understand why do you people consider those 900$ little money? Do you make comparable to 900$ a day? That is 240k a year, just so that you can have a better feeling.
More like $2700 a year if you assume 3 ASLs every year and assuming you even manage to make this match, not 240k a year -_-
Watching the games right now and I honestly can't believe how badly they read the first game. Yes Bisu had a moment where the lings could have done some serious damage, but after that he was so far ahead he could probably have won with 1 hand. "Yes bisu is still in this"
On May 31 2017 03:00 gngfn wrote: Nobody ever practices hard for 3rd place matches, and a good player who can expect to go deep in tournaments in the future is incentivized to save whatever good builds he might have anyway. Unfortunately this is about what you can expect from a consolation match, which is a big part of the reason BW mostly stopped doing them.
But I I believe that Soulkey still wanted to win. 1) That's still 900$ 2) Defeating Bisu always increases your reputation 3) A win boosts his confidence for the match vs Free in the SSL where he can still win it all.
When will other protoss players be good at pvz, and take lessons from bisu. There never has been an influential protoss like bisu in a very long time, always zerg or terran players
Other than shuttles 1st asl win, it never seems protoss ever dominates the scene like the other races have.
On May 31 2017 04:37 usopsama wrote: Shine's builds seem broken because they are so optimized. Also, Shine's micro is almost flawless. His scourge and defiler micro is fucking scary.
I think Shine just allocates his APM differently in comparison to say Soulkey as we saw his micro lacking in large parts of his games vs Flash in the semis.
On May 31 2017 04:37 usopsama wrote: Also, Shine's micro is almost flawless.
I so strongly disagree with this, there were so many times in the games vs Bisu where his micro was subpar at best. But that is because he so effectively spent his APM on more important things.
His micro in crucial moments where great, but overall it wasn't that good at all. But since his strategy wasn't dependent on good micro in every encounter it worked out perfectly anyway.
It wasn't Shine or his strategies winning the games. It was Bisu donating games. I imagine already how bad Shine will look in the finals, and how the effectively spent APM will suddenly disappear.
Not an impressive series. Didn't the osl used to seed 3rd place deeper in the tournament than 4th place, creating something big for the players to play for?
On May 31 2017 02:12 blade55555 wrote: Yeah that was a disappointing series. Idk it seems like Soulkey isn't very confident in his zvp. He played very aggressive vs Best and the only reason he won (imo) was because Best was doing a bad job blocking the runby's.
Maybe he's hiding something for free, but I think he might just be struggling with zvp right now going by his ASL ro8 match and this one
right now? It's been like this for a long time since he came back to BW. He's one of the last afreecan zergs to watch if you want to improve your zvp.
On May 31 2017 01:59 StylishVODs wrote: Maybe I'm way too slow, but this OP really spoiled the results in the Semi-Finals for me.
Ah, sorry about that. Granted, I have a 48 hour rule about spoilers and the semifinals were played 48 hours before this series and the LR thread went up literally as the day began so :/
Am I wrong but haven't Zergs been playing really aggressively against protoss a lot lately? Why are people so surprised that Soulkey did it here as well?
There were a few clutch moments where soulkey almost broke through and I thought it was really exciting.
Not the greatest games, no, but a lot of tense moments that I still enjoyed.
I miss the old style of Zerg that would beat Bisu. Back when hero won in the finals it was through superb standard play and simply being mechanically better. Soulkey and Shine just don't show the same level of mechnical talent that hero did and even Effort when he won. Credit to shine for winning with his head, but Soulkey's play just looked completely uninspired.
On May 31 2017 03:10 TaardadAiel wrote: I don't have any idea why SoulKey decided to bring the lings from the main - where he just broke - back to the natural in game 1? Was this a mistake or just a gamble?
He did it because he had brought in the 4 new lings and thought it'd be enough to rush down the cannon, allowing him to tip the scales and completely bust Bisu. Well, he got the cannon but there was another warping and the zealots still popping out, and so in the end it got him nowhere.
He took a risk that killing the cannon would mean he could keep doing prolonged damage, but instead yep, he just threw away those 8ish lings that had made it into the main for nothing. He could've done some real damage with them if he'd just stayed up in there =/
It was definitely a mistake in hindsight, but I think to Soulkey it was a "maybe I can just put the game away right now!".
On May 31 2017 10:02 BisuDagger wrote: I miss the old style of Zerg that would beat Bisu. Back when hero won in the finals it was through superb standard play and simply being mechanically better. Soulkey and Shine just don't show the same level of mechnical talent that hero did and even Effort when he won. Credit to shine for winning with his head, but Soulkey's play just looked completely uninspired.
I miss the mutalisks+scourage vs corsairs battles and dark templar drops. I'm seeing much more hydra busts now for some reason. Hopefully, ZvP goes back to that rather than what it currently is.
On May 31 2017 10:02 BisuDagger wrote: I miss the old style of Zerg that would beat Bisu. Back when hero won in the finals it was through superb standard play and simply being mechanically better. Soulkey and Shine just don't show the same level of mechnical talent that hero did and even Effort when he won. Credit to shine for winning with his head, but Soulkey's play just looked completely uninspired.
I miss the mutalisks+scourage vs corsairs battles and dark templar drops. I'm seeing much more hydra busts now for some reason. Hopefully, ZvP goes back to that rather than what it currently is.
I actually really miss watching a well executed corsair-reaver... Though this build disappeared mostly because Zerg players learned how to play against it, and it requires great multi-tasking and control from the Protoss player.
On May 31 2017 13:45 L1ghtning wrote: Man, Bisu.. Why can't you play well when it really matters?
Meh, as a Bisu fan you can't be upset with his results now or over the past 3 years. It's amazing how losing in the semifinals can make people turn against him so fast via the other LR thread. The competition gets better and better yet he still hangs at the top.
I think Bisu's mid-game is really strong against Zerg. He just knows when to commit his army for frontal attacks. Soulkey just couldn't get to late game against him.
On June 01 2017 04:44 polgas wrote: I think Bisu's mid-game is really strong against Zerg. He just knows when to commit his army for frontal attacks. Soulkey just couldn't get to late game against him.
Soulkey also didn't drone up enough but went for early aggression so he was always gonna be way behind in the late game unless he got major damage done.
On May 31 2017 13:45 L1ghtning wrote: Man, Bisu.. Why can't you play well when it really matters?
Bisu only plays as good as the opponent does let him play. Everbody plays awesome against weaker players and seems to suck against stronger players. Otherwise, the opponent would not be the stronger player.
On June 01 2017 20:16 Wolf wrote: Just be very clear, restreaming any of SPOTV's contents is not allowed. On Twitch, or any other platform.
Wolf, I will notify the frequent restreamers if I see them in the future and remove them from the Calendar. Also, you may want to post this in the SSL threads. PM me if you ever need anything. Hope your day is well. Cheers.
On June 01 2017 20:16 Wolf wrote: Just be very clear, restreaming any of SPOTV's contents is not allowed. On Twitch, or any other platform.
Wolf, I will notify the frequent restreamers if I see them in the future and remove them from the Calendar. Also, you may want to post this in the SSL threads. PM me if you ever need anything. Hope your day is well. Cheers.
LOL! Wrong thread sorry. Must have misclicked because posting on my phone.
OMG, im seeing a protoss army siegeing zerg natural late game and with endurance. I was genuinely surprised to see that phase of standart play happening, its like pvz doesnt go there anymore. Now i remember what i like in this matchup.
EPT
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![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/72c7W8g.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/XF3M9QD.png)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/6Jkl2DI.png)
