On February 05 2015 13:24 N.geNuity wrote: mm hiya with a lot stronger economy though?
map being split, with hiya being faster in establishing the split
however, will he be split thin anywhere? particular with ssaks wraith squad
Ssak does have positional advantage and game 3 of previous series shows that having better economy early isn't necessary the end all.
well it's more the way the map splits, sin peaks is a weird path to travel, and yamato much better in strict 1 line vs 1 line (2 spots on map of high ground squares to focus on)
anyways I am a scrub, hiya armories had to be spinning, he has 2-2 wraiths
hiya assaults bottom right and takes it out, but wraiths have a hard time running out. they do eventually, now in ssak's main
On February 05 2015 13:46 Ender2701 wrote: Why is no one building valkaries?
I think it's because with these kind of wraith numbers you need a lot of them to make an impact, they can't cloak so they would just be popped in a second.
sonic has pretty typical viewership, im always confused at the random fluctuations throughout sbenu. Like, it always grows in the broadcast to 15-20k range (more 15-16k), but like, who tunes in randomly in the middle of sets? I would imagine people watching would watch from the start.
one note is he is spreading his buildings out, partly in last's interview he mentioned scanning the 7 factories of mong let him decide to go bc's and go for long game + yamato play
its odd how this series has differed from last/mong so much. blue storm was a vulture haven in old days, but both mong/last expanded pretty quick and mong followed up with starport
hiya gets down the little nook in center of brood to siege the nat a little. gets down a turret and kills ssak's 3 or 4 wraiths + 1 valkyrie with his own wraith squad!
hiya was kinda lower on scv count (and ssak took his third min only) but isn;t going to be able to use his natural for mineral mining
ssak with good consistent harass with vultures but hiya is free to take his min only and fourth simultaneously
valkyries for ssak are scary but hiya getting cloak, can he run in and snipe them>>? or does he even need to?
ssak though, gets the siege pressure on his natural away, with enough valks to scare any wraiths from providing vision (and kill floating building), plus took out some tanks in a pretty even exchange from the high ground wrapping around
able to circumnavigate the center and go to the 12 oclock area, ssak pretty safely has split map
hiya gets good mileage out of his wraith cloaks though, picking off probably like 5 wraiths overtime (kill 2, run away) without getting punished. has built up dropships behind all this, 5 are out
drops right behind ssak's natural minerals. annoying, but not end of the world
drops right at the cliff at the 12 and forces ssak to lift though, will be tough for ssak to reland that ever if hiya relands some more forces there/gives proper air defence
so this split map isn't even on gases; hiya has the 6 oclock running
hiya at 3-3 but very worried face, loses a lot dropping the natural of ssak (to be fair a lot of vultures and dropships, supply he needed gone anyways; well, dropships still all alive) but he verbally is talking to himself in the booth
the resources are split but how is he ever going to advance on ssak? the answer is he won't, and yamato is far more cost effective long term
He does huge drop at 12 and retains good goliath numbers, so he takes down the CC and should be safe there too! but can he stop ssak from retaking it?
aahhh sloppy as hiya tried to seize a great chance!
while bc's of ssak at the 12, attacked the ground army of ssak. takes a little more effort than he would have hoped (not quite sieging tanks properly, giving bc's time to come back and get some snipes) but hiya does push it down
ssak without the money to probably take back 12!!!! only 110 supply or so, a control group of tanks and 6 bcs
hiya lands at 12 now, but he took a lot of unnecessary hits going into a small engage against ssak's tank support with two front tanks getting dmatrixed
all bc's get a yamato off, really widdles down tank numbers of hiya
hiya though knows what to do! as ssak finally moves up to 12, he just walks around and goes to kill the base
What was Hiya doing? Why didn't he just take the 12 when he had map control? Why didn't he send his full army to kill ssak's main instead of just using a few vultures? Ssak wouldn't have had any space in the 12 base to rebuild enough depots to make more units.
On February 05 2015 15:36 iamho wrote: What was Hiya doing? Why didn't he just take the 12 when he had map control? Why didn't he send his full army to kill ssak's main instead of just using a few vultures? Ssak wouldn't have had any space in the 12 base to rebuild enough depots to make more units.
with the bcs the space wouldnt be an issue eventually, yamato would slowly but surely push out hiya to clear space
but it was dumb losing a whole lot of stuff attacking up the middle-ramp into 2 dmatrixed tanks rather than completely cut off the path to 12
In game 1 hiya shouldve won, with much more solid play he lead the game, he had the ballz to go deep in the enemy territory with wraiths wreaking havoc, however his aggressive style hurt him later in the game little by little, while sSak won the game playing the pussy terran. Admirations for hiya's aggressive play, because in TvT being absolutelly patient leads to boredome. Im up to watch the next two games.
damn what games there were, indeed if it was boxer he would have d-matrixed the ghost or used the medic to optic flare, sad that hiya didn't take a game.
On February 07 2015 05:09 _Animus_ wrote: In game 1 hiya shouldve won, with much more solid play he lead the game, he had the ballz to go deep in the enemy territory with wraiths wreaking havoc, however his aggressive style hurt him later in the game little by little, while sSak won the game playing the pussy terran. Admirations for hiya's aggressive play, because in TvT being absolutelly patient leads to boredome. Im up to watch the next two games.
NO.game 1 just showed how bad is Hiya in the matchup,sSak was defensive when he needed to and agro in the right time,except one mistake of attacking hiya siege tanks with only gols his game was very very well done.in the other hand Hiya just waste and waste his army all the time.
On February 07 2015 07:18 ne4aJIb wrote: damn what games there were, indeed if it was boxer he would have d-matrixed the ghost or used the medic to optic flare, sad that hiya didn't take a game.
Yeah, man we dont see enough creativity like in the old days, its mostly because too many standarts are set and constant practice on certaing things just to be able to perform at high level hurts the creativity alot. Thats why i find old vods very entertaining, u see lots of crazy stuff that worked back in the days.
Poor magicarp, he did well tho trying to play aggresive making the games more fun.
It's been a few days since I saw that game (set 1), but I had a different impression of how it went. Ssak got an important advantage early on with how much ground he was able to make, and Hiya struggled all game to get it back. The Hiya made a big play with mass wraiths and was able to stop ssak from mining one or two of his 6 gases. Meanwhile Hiya had taken one of the mineral onlies, which Ssak had elected to ignore, which made the wraith attack more significant than it otherwise would have been. Unfortunately Hiya wasn't able to actually solidify a position that would have cut off Ssak from the bottom right of the map, and Ssak managed to take his expos back and take advantage of what he'd done early on, which was denying the gas third of the top left position. Hiya wasn't able to properly secure that base, and he wasn't able to deny for long enough the gas advantage Ssak had, which is why Hiya ultimately ran out of steam before Ssak did. Hiya did some nice vulture raid plays that I wouldn't have expected so late in the game, and they gave him a really good fighting chance to finally take his unmined third, but Ssak just pushed better and took advantage of Hiya who wasn't able to dedicate enough forces to that area of the map.
TvT is a matchup where you can't enjoy it if you don't analyse the minimap. You can't just look at the wraith play and think that was the only thing that happened the whole game. TvT is like some weird combination of Go and American Football. It's a game of territory, it's a game of inches. Especially on this map where you're always fighting on a slope, Hiya giving that much ground to Ssak set him behind the whole game. Some of that is positional imbalance, Ssak had a shorter distance to deny Hiya's third, but a lot of it is just Hiya failing to get a foothold on the center and having to spend lots of units just barely defending the line to his expos in the top right.
I'm a little surprised we didn't see any heavy vulture strategies on this map, since the free mineral onlies would seem to encourage it, and the importance of presence in the center and tank pushing would seem to favour vulture plays. But I guess because the center is unbuildable, you have to emphasize taking and defending gas expos so that you can afford goliaths or wraiths to defend against air.
There seemed to be a lot of places in set1 and set2 where if Hiya had had an extra hand or something to play faster and manage more places at once and think about more things, he could have secured the game because he got into a pretty advantageous but difficult to manage position in both games more than once. I thought I could see the disappointment in his face when I saw it slip away from him. The set 2 play of just abandoning the south hill on peaks to make a super attack on the north was really a hilarious gambit though. It kinda worked out ? At least he didn't get caught with his pants down in the middle of it.
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