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Superfight Game Discussion

Forum Index > Brood War Tournaments
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1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 Next All
DTDominion
Profile Joined November 2005
United States2148 Posts
Last Edited: 2006-10-03 08:15:34
October 03 2006 08:14 GMT
#1
Pretty simple premise. Break down/discuss/deconstruct the Superfight matches here.

For quick reference:

Savior > Boxer Araknoid
Savior > Boxer Blitz
Savior > Boxer Longinus

Yellow > Boxer Jungle Story
Boxer > Yellow Ragranok
Boxer > Yellow Arcadia 2
Yellow > Boxer Peaks
Boxer > Yellow Longinus
DTDominion
Profile Joined November 2005
United States2148 Posts
Last Edited: 2006-10-03 09:20:45
October 03 2006 08:24 GMT
#2
Boxer vs. Savior on Araknoid
Boxer's initial strategy was to allow Savior, the best game control Zerg in the world, to control the dynamic of the game, no way Boxer was going to win this.

Boxer vs. Savior on Blitz
Even though I didn't like Boxer's strategy I'm still surprised at how Savior just totally manhandled him. I guess Boxer's micro and macro were just weaker.

EDIT: Boxer's micro this game was terrible though :/

Boxer vs. Savior on Longinus
I'm not sure whether Boxer having his factory scouted was luck by Savior or Savior scouting logically and intelligently. Even at that point, Boxer still needlessly lost his first M&M group which put him hopelessly behind. Which sucked, because Boxer was intensely microing and macroing the entire game after that minor fiasco. Still, Boxer's early game play was terrible.

Overall comments
Boxer basically ceded control of the game flow to Savior strategically every game. The most intelligent strategy I've seen against Savior is to go 8 rax or to go 1/2 rax fast CC, which Boxer didn't do any of the games. In his post game interview Boxer said that attempting a Bunker rush was necessary against zergs of Savior's level. So why not!?!?!? If Boxer had put his all into these games and still lost I wouldn't really care, because Savior is simply a best and you can only do so much, but Boxer didn't seem to be trying at all.
DTDominion
Profile Joined November 2005
United States2148 Posts
October 03 2006 08:47 GMT
#3
Boxer vs. Yellow at Jungle Story
I acctually liked Boxer's strategy a lot in one sense, because it was a logically constructed defend/expand game. But the path finding on Jungle Story is abysmal to begin with, and on top of the Goliath pathfinding it eventually became impossible for Boxer to react to Yellow's mutas. I'm surprised the mass muta counter never came up in practice.

Boxer vs. Yellow at Ragronok
This game was unbelievably painful to watch. Neither player decided it was necessary to macro, which did lead to a very old school style confrontation, but this was still terrible play by both players for the most part. Boxer's micro was beast this game though.

Boxer vs. Yellow at Arcadia 2
Yellow's strategy was unbelievably terrible. Going straight Lurker/ling against the best M&M user alive was disaster in the making, and Boxer made sure not to pass up on the opportunity, killing one of Yellow's expansions and generally causing havoc during the early game with his M&M troops roaming aroiund the map. This was Boxer's best game strategically too. His simple 8 rax into fast expansion gave him the flexibility necessary to keep up with Yellow and eventually achieve victory. Yellow's micro and overall troop management just wasn't up to par. This wasn't an amazing game by either Boxer or Yellow, but at least Boxer finally, after five fucking matches, played a game which could be construed as him playing well.

His proxy rax against Yellow's expansion was pimp by the way.

Boxer vs. Yellow at Peaks
I remember seeing Casy vs. Chojja on this map and thinking about Casy's play "dude, this is totally how Boxer would play this map, I wanna see Boxer TvZ on Peaks!" Unfortunately Boxer's play was dissapointing After a killer Bunker rush opening Boxer chose to go for some useless proxy buildings which set his defense too far behind to resist Yellow's zergling swarms. Boxer turtled against the inevitable muta onslaught but it wasn't enough and Yellow crushed him. This was probably Yellow's best game of the series, incredible game management and micro, with solid macro to boot.

Boxer vs. Yellow at Longinus
And thus it came down to one last epic final battle for the championship. For the most part it didn't dissapoint. Even though Boxer's early attack was a definite wtf move (though maybe he had no reason to believe Yellow had 8 or so Hydras in reserve), the rest of the game was definitely a titanic struggle worthy of being called superfight. After Boxer's awesome hold at his entrance, both players struggled for map control, with Boxer being able to move out and almost attacking Yellow's main, though he backed off at the last moment. The critical moment of the game was when Yellow dropped Boxer's base from the northern end. Boxer, using the true Boxer's like intuition which endeared us toward his play in the first place, effortlessly blocked Yellow's attempt and then set up his defenses in a manner that would continue to deny Yellow's drops. Boxer then moved in for the final blow, killing Yellow's expansion while moving in on his main for the kill. In an epic seige worthy of comparison to Lord of the Rings, Boxer slowly but surely moved in on Yellow's base, keeping a multi-screen wide arc that slowly but surely anihilated Yellow's troops, forcing a GG.

This was definitely Boxer's best game of the night, even with the mistake early he convincingly came back to crush Yellow.

Overall thoughts
Yellow didn't really impress or dissapoint. Good player with definite knowledge of the game, but doesn't have what it takes to beat Boxer at full strength.

I think after the Jungle story game Boxer's outlook on this series must have drastically changed, switching to a very standard startegic paradigm in games 2,3, and 5. But ultimately I'd rather see Boxer win by just playing fucking awesome StarCraft than losing by doing something crazy.

Definitely check out game 2 if you like to see very old school flavored SC. Game 3 for Boxer's most intelligent play of the night, game 4 if you're a Yellow fan (Yellow did pretty much everything righ this game), and game 5 for Boxer being Boxer.
jkillashark
Profile Blog Joined November 2005
United States5262 Posts
October 03 2006 08:53 GMT
#4
I have to wait for the VODs first T_T.
Do your best, God will do the rest.
[angst]chraej
Profile Joined January 2006
1445 Posts
October 03 2006 08:55 GMT
#5
there was a thread about watching GOM, can you view the games in FP now? or only when they were playing live?
An open mind is like a fortress with its gates unbarred and unguarded
Last Romantic
Profile Blog Joined June 2006
United States20661 Posts
October 03 2006 09:04 GMT
#6
Jungle Story game was hilarious. YellOw triple secret expo, boxer going gols, YellOw's muta overrun everything, and he finishes BoxeR with a queen.

Ragnarok game was rather painful to watch, with both players playing very sub-par.

Third game... yellow's strategy choice was not very good, I think.

Fourth game was my favorite game of the series, very intense micro game from both players, though BoxeR's strategy choice after the first few minutes was a bit circumspect.

Last game was sufficiently epic.
ㅋㄲㅈㅁ
Vin{MBL}
Profile Blog Joined September 2006
5185 Posts
October 03 2006 09:09 GMT
#7
gg's boxer.... and yes i want the vods T.T
hasuprotoss
Profile Blog Joined March 2004
United States4612 Posts
October 03 2006 09:17 GMT
#8
On October 03 2006 18:09 vinsc wrote:
gg's boxer.... and yes i want the vods T.T


I'm dl'ing them at about 250 kB/s right now, will up when I can
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/index.php?viewdays=0&show_part=5 <--- Articles Section on TL
DTDominion
Profile Joined November 2005
United States2148 Posts
October 03 2006 09:21 GMT
#9
hasuprotoss, are those just the main game vods or do you have the FPVODs too?

The FPVODs would be sex.
Drowsy
Profile Blog Joined November 2005
United States4876 Posts
October 03 2006 09:21 GMT
#10
On October 03 2006 18:17 hasuprotoss wrote:
     [removed quote within quote]

I'm dl'ing them at about 250 kB/s right now, will up when I can


<3 hasuprotoss.
Our Protoss, Who art in Aiur HongUn be Thy name; Thy stalker come, Thy will be blunk, on ladder as it is in Micro Tourny. Give us this win in our daily ladder, and forgive us our cheeses, As we forgive those who play zerg against us.
Ilikestarcraft
Profile Blog Joined November 2004
Korea (South)17727 Posts
October 03 2006 09:23 GMT
#11
The games were actually disappointing. Especially boxer's control on blitz. He got manhandled.
Savior's choice of guards was really good.
"Nana is a goddess. Or at very least, Nana is my goddess." - KazeHydra
Magician
Profile Joined October 2006
Korea (South)13 Posts
October 03 2006 09:53 GMT
#12
On October 03 2006 18:17 hasuprotoss wrote:
     [removed quote within quote]

I'm dl'ing them at about 250 kB/s right now, will up when I can


<3 <3 <3 <3
Protoss Magician ^^
decafchicken
Profile Blog Joined January 2005
United States20019 Posts
October 03 2006 09:56 GMT
#13
On October 03 2006 18:17 hasuprotoss wrote:
[removed quote within quote]

I'm dl'ing them at about 250 kB/s right now, will up when I can


<3
how reasonable is it to eat off wood instead of your tummy?
mrdx
Profile Blog Joined October 2004
Vietnam1555 Posts
October 03 2006 11:31 GMT
#14
Anyone else thinks that Savior is way overrated and just 3-0ed Boxer 'cos the Emperor cared about playing against Yellow much more than against him thus didn't prepare well at all?
BoxerForever.com - the one and only international Boxer fansite since 2006 :)
Raidern
Profile Joined February 2005
Brazil3811 Posts
October 03 2006 11:38 GMT
#15
On October 03 2006 20:31 mrdx wrote:
Anyone else thinks that Savior is way overrated and just 3-0ed Boxer 'cos the Emperor cared about playing against Yellow much more than against him thus didn't prepare well at all?


No.
For the Swarm!
IdrA
Profile Blog Joined July 2004
United States11541 Posts
October 03 2006 11:42 GMT
#16
oh yes, saviors zvt only today received attention and praise, only because of this one series. every part of his game is insane, perfect micro, perfect macro, perfect strategical control of the game. he is not overrated.
http://www.splitreason.com/product/1152 release the gracken tshirt now available
himurakenshin
Profile Blog Joined April 2006
Canada1845 Posts
October 03 2006 11:43 GMT
#17
On October 03 2006 20:31 mrdx wrote:
Anyone else thinks that Savior is way overrated and just 3-0ed Boxer 'cos the Emperor cared about playing against Yellow much more than against him thus didn't prepare well at all?


I wish so, however boxer did get it handed to him. He definitely wasn't playing at his best vs ipx who was clearly playing the best he has ever, so it doesn't necessarily mean on another occasion, savior would of destroyed boxer like he did. I personally think that boxer could of given a better fight and won vs savior, he just wasn't playing the way which has brought him to this point, he was playing really poorly. I really wish there was a rematch.
Mortality
Profile Blog Joined December 2005
United States4790 Posts
October 03 2006 11:47 GMT
#18
LOL...Savior man handled Boxer. And no, Boxer wasn't "saving" anything for Yellow. If you read his interview, it was clear that he had prepared strategies to fight Savior. The problem is that Savior's game sense is just a step above the rest. Watch those games carefully. Savior had his eyes out for anything unusual and then he would force Boxer into a position where Boxer was playing Savior's game.

In my mind, nobody has been this dominating over his opponents since NaDa's reign. In fact, Savior is quite possibly the most dominating player in the history of Starcraft. Boxer never was the kind of player who adjusted the tempo to his will but rather he was the kind of player who would find holes in his opponent's tempo and exploit them. July was similar. Even Oov, as good as he was about setting the tempo to his taste, often relied on the fact that he would consistently overpower his opponent and in every confrontation, Oov's army would grow in relative size to his opponent's. In some cases, it would even appear as if his army grew in absolute size.

No, the only player who ever compared with Savior in terms of setting the tempo of the game and forcing his opponent to play his game was NaDa from his prime. That's what I loved so much in NaDa and what I am now loving so much in Savior -- it's perfection.



I would also like to add some thoughts with respect to IEF. Some people watching those games between Savior and Oov thoght that Savior threw them. Well, the game 12/3 LT was most certainly doomed from the start since 12/3 ZvT against a monster like Oov is about as tough as it gets. But in game 2, we saw a different side to Savior where he wasn't playing as his usual macro-oriented self. In his games vs Boxer, Savior was being extremely prudent about searching for proxies and cheese. I think that Savior had it in his mind that Boxer would try to force him into a low econ game so Savior decided to practice his low econ game. Just a hunch, and maybe it's totally wrong. Still, Savior played uncharateristically.
Even though this Proleague bullshit has been completely bogus, I really, really, really do not see how Khan can lose this. I swear I will kill myself if they do. - nesix before KHAN lost to eNature
Leath
Profile Blog Joined July 2006
Canada1724 Posts
October 03 2006 11:48 GMT
#19
On October 03 2006 20:31 mrdx wrote:
Anyone else thinks that Savior is way overrated and just 3-0ed Boxer 'cos the Emperor cared about playing against Yellow much more than against him thus didn't prepare well at all?


No, and I believe my opnion to be unbiased, since Savior doesnt appeal to me in any level. But I will give him that he is definetly the best Zerg player right, now. Savior's ZvT is just frightning! He has beaten down so many good terrans like Oov, Nada, Midas and, now, Boxer.

I know Boxer has been around forever but he is not the best terran anymore. Boxer may be the best in his own style, for sure, however it doesnt make the cut against those newer top guys.




I need to see the games before I comment
http://www.kongregate.com/?referrer=Sagess
Peanuts.
Profile Blog Joined December 2004
United States378 Posts
October 03 2006 12:36 GMT
#20
So im guessing no more PimpestPlays without Boxer =/
We Are All One
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