WCSFor quick reference:
Savior > Boxer Araknoid
Savior > Boxer Blitz
Savior > Boxer Longinus
Yellow > Boxer Jungle Story
Boxer > Yellow Ragranok
Boxer > Yellow Arcadia 2
Yellow > Boxer Peaks
Boxer > Yellow Longinus
Superfight Game Discussion
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DTDominion
United States2148 Posts
For quick reference: Savior > Boxer Araknoid Savior > Boxer Blitz Savior > Boxer Longinus Yellow > Boxer Jungle Story Boxer > Yellow Ragranok Boxer > Yellow Arcadia 2 Yellow > Boxer Peaks Boxer > Yellow Longinus | ||
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DTDominion
United States2148 Posts
Boxer's initial strategy was to allow Savior, the best game control Zerg in the world, to control the dynamic of the game, no way Boxer was going to win this. Boxer vs. Savior on Blitz Even though I didn't like Boxer's strategy I'm still surprised at how Savior just totally manhandled him. I guess Boxer's micro and macro were just weaker. EDIT: Boxer's micro this game was terrible though :/ Boxer vs. Savior on Longinus I'm not sure whether Boxer having his factory scouted was luck by Savior or Savior scouting logically and intelligently. Even at that point, Boxer still needlessly lost his first M&M group which put him hopelessly behind. Which sucked, because Boxer was intensely microing and macroing the entire game after that minor fiasco. Still, Boxer's early game play was terrible. Overall comments Boxer basically ceded control of the game flow to Savior strategically every game. The most intelligent strategy I've seen against Savior is to go 8 rax or to go 1/2 rax fast CC, which Boxer didn't do any of the games. In his post game interview Boxer said that attempting a Bunker rush was necessary against zergs of Savior's level. So why not!?!?!? If Boxer had put his all into these games and still lost I wouldn't really care, because Savior is simply a best and you can only do so much, but Boxer didn't seem to be trying at all.  | ||
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DTDominion
United States2148 Posts
I acctually liked Boxer's strategy a lot in one sense, because it was a logically constructed defend/expand game. But the path finding on Jungle Story is abysmal to begin with, and on top of the Goliath pathfinding it eventually became impossible for Boxer to react to Yellow's mutas. I'm surprised the mass muta counter never came up in practice. Boxer vs. Yellow at Ragronok This game was unbelievably painful to watch. Neither player decided it was necessary to macro, which did lead to a very old school style confrontation, but this was still terrible play by both players for the most part. Boxer's micro was beast this game though. Boxer vs. Yellow at Arcadia 2 Yellow's strategy was unbelievably terrible. Going straight Lurker/ling against the best M&M user alive was disaster in the making, and Boxer made sure not to pass up on the opportunity, killing one of Yellow's expansions and generally causing havoc during the early game with his M&M troops roaming aroiund the map. This was Boxer's best game strategically too. His simple 8 rax into fast expansion gave him the flexibility necessary to keep up with Yellow and eventually achieve victory. Yellow's micro and overall troop management just wasn't up to par. This wasn't an amazing game by either Boxer or Yellow, but at least Boxer finally, after five fucking matches, played a game which could be construed as him playing well. His proxy rax against Yellow's expansion was pimp by the way. Boxer vs. Yellow at Peaks I remember seeing Casy vs. Chojja on this map and thinking about Casy's play "dude, this is totally how Boxer would play this map, I wanna see Boxer TvZ on Peaks!" Unfortunately Boxer's play was dissapointing After a killer Bunker rush opening Boxer chose to go for some useless proxy buildings which set his defense too far behind to resist Yellow's zergling swarms. Boxer turtled against the inevitable muta onslaught but it wasn't enough and Yellow crushed him. This was probably Yellow's best game of the series, incredible game management and micro, with solid macro to boot.Boxer vs. Yellow at Longinus And thus it came down to one last epic final battle for the championship. For the most part it didn't dissapoint. Even though Boxer's early attack was a definite wtf move (though maybe he had no reason to believe Yellow had 8 or so Hydras in reserve), the rest of the game was definitely a titanic struggle worthy of being called superfight. After Boxer's awesome hold at his entrance, both players struggled for map control, with Boxer being able to move out and almost attacking Yellow's main, though he backed off at the last moment. The critical moment of the game was when Yellow dropped Boxer's base from the northern end. Boxer, using the true Boxer's like intuition which endeared us toward his play in the first place, effortlessly blocked Yellow's attempt and then set up his defenses in a manner that would continue to deny Yellow's drops. Boxer then moved in for the final blow, killing Yellow's expansion while moving in on his main for the kill. In an epic seige worthy of comparison to Lord of the Rings, Boxer slowly but surely moved in on Yellow's base, keeping a multi-screen wide arc that slowly but surely anihilated Yellow's troops, forcing a GG. This was definitely Boxer's best game of the night, even with the mistake early he convincingly came back to crush Yellow. Overall thoughts Yellow didn't really impress or dissapoint. Good player with definite knowledge of the game, but doesn't have what it takes to beat Boxer at full strength. I think after the Jungle story game Boxer's outlook on this series must have drastically changed, switching to a very standard startegic paradigm in games 2,3, and 5. But ultimately I'd rather see Boxer win by just playing fucking awesome StarCraft than losing by doing something crazy. Definitely check out game 2 if you like to see very old school flavored SC. Game 3 for Boxer's most intelligent play of the night, game 4 if you're a Yellow fan (Yellow did pretty much everything righ this game), and game 5 for Boxer being Boxer. | ||
jkillashark
United States5262 Posts
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[angst]chraej
1445 Posts
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Last Romantic
United States20596 Posts
Ragnarok game was rather painful to watch, with both players playing very sub-par. Third game... yellow's strategy choice was not very good, I think. Fourth game was my favorite game of the series, very intense micro game from both players, though BoxeR's strategy choice after the first few minutes was a bit circumspect. Last game was sufficiently epic. | ||
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Vin{MBL}
5184 Posts
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hasuprotoss
United States4284 Posts
On October 03 2006 18:09 vinsc wrote: gg's boxer.... and yes i want the vods T.T I'm dl'ing them at about 250 kB/s right now, will up when I can  | ||
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DTDominion
United States2148 Posts
The FPVODs would be sex. | ||
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Drowsy
United States4871 Posts
On October 03 2006 18:17 hasuprotoss wrote: [removed quote within quote] I'm dl'ing them at about 250 kB/s right now, will up when I can <3 hasuprotoss. | ||
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Ilikestarcraft
Korea (South)17663 Posts
Savior's choice of guards was really good. | ||
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Magician
Korea (South)13 Posts
On October 03 2006 18:17 hasuprotoss wrote: [removed quote within quote] I'm dl'ing them at about 250 kB/s right now, will up when I can <3 <3 <3 <3 | ||
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decafchicken
United States19432 Posts
On October 03 2006 18:17 hasuprotoss wrote: [removed quote within quote] I'm dl'ing them at about 250 kB/s right now, will up when I can <3 | ||
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mrdx
Vietnam1555 Posts
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Raidern
Brazil3771 Posts
On October 03 2006 20:31 mrdx wrote: Anyone else thinks that Savior is way overrated and just 3-0ed Boxer 'cos the Emperor cared about playing against Yellow much more than against him thus didn't prepare well at all? No. | ||
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IdrA
United States11540 Posts
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himurakenshin
Canada1845 Posts
On October 03 2006 20:31 mrdx wrote: Anyone else thinks that Savior is way overrated and just 3-0ed Boxer 'cos the Emperor cared about playing against Yellow much more than against him thus didn't prepare well at all? I wish so, however boxer did get it handed to him. He definitely wasn't playing at his best vs ipx who was clearly playing the best he has ever, so it doesn't necessarily mean on another occasion, savior would of destroyed boxer like he did. I personally think that boxer could of given a better fight and won vs savior, he just wasn't playing the way which has brought him to this point, he was playing really poorly. I really wish there was a rematch. | ||
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Mortality
United States4790 Posts
In my mind, nobody has been this dominating over his opponents since NaDa's reign. In fact, Savior is quite possibly the most dominating player in the history of Starcraft. Boxer never was the kind of player who adjusted the tempo to his will but rather he was the kind of player who would find holes in his opponent's tempo and exploit them. July was similar. Even Oov, as good as he was about setting the tempo to his taste, often relied on the fact that he would consistently overpower his opponent and in every confrontation, Oov's army would grow in relative size to his opponent's. In some cases, it would even appear as if his army grew in absolute size. No, the only player who ever compared with Savior in terms of setting the tempo of the game and forcing his opponent to play his game was NaDa from his prime. That's what I loved so much in NaDa and what I am now loving so much in Savior -- it's perfection. I would also like to add some thoughts with respect to IEF. Some people watching those games between Savior and Oov thoght that Savior threw them. Well, the game 12/3 LT was most certainly doomed from the start since 12/3 ZvT against a monster like Oov is about as tough as it gets. But in game 2, we saw a different side to Savior where he wasn't playing as his usual macro-oriented self. In his games vs Boxer, Savior was being extremely prudent about searching for proxies and cheese. I think that Savior had it in his mind that Boxer would try to force him into a low econ game so Savior decided to practice his low econ game. Just a hunch, and maybe it's totally wrong. Still, Savior played uncharateristically. | ||
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Leath
Canada1724 Posts
On October 03 2006 20:31 mrdx wrote: Anyone else thinks that Savior is way overrated and just 3-0ed Boxer 'cos the Emperor cared about playing against Yellow much more than against him thus didn't prepare well at all? No, and I believe my opnion to be unbiased, since Savior doesnt appeal to me in any level. But I will give him that he is definetly the best Zerg player right, now. Savior's ZvT is just frightning! He has beaten down so many good terrans like Oov, Nada, Midas and, now, Boxer. I know Boxer has been around forever but he is not the best terran anymore. Boxer may be the best in his own style, for sure, however it doesnt make the cut against those newer top guys. I need to see the games before I comment | ||
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Peanuts.
United States378 Posts
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