Is anyone else watching the commercials til it begins?
Edit:
On June 24 2012 14:09 GTR wrote: you can watch park tae-hwan dance with some kbz's and cups of tv dinners a limited amount of times until you go insane with the ad.
that guy is handsome when he's not in the weird dance suit thing.
my ears are begging for mercy. please let it start soon.
i'll do anything. i will fly to korea and buy 1 billion dollars worth of that haepen stuff. i will sacrifice my first born son and first born daughter.
On June 24 2012 14:21 sc2superfan101 wrote: crazyhydra vs horang, right? who would be favored in this matchup? i missed the beginging thing where they show the record.
horang2 sucks vs zerg nowadays. crazyhydra favored.
Almost all of Horang2's sairs fall No storm for Horang2, hydras gonna tear apart the protoss army Most of the hydras will die, but the mutas are still left Finally Horang2 is taking his mineral only This is X10A style PvZ mass units into late late third base
Finally a few HT are out on the map now Mutas just gonna brute force their way through two cannons, nexus going to take some fire DT's are out now Horang2 just going to move out with his army Nexus falls
Two corsairs going to get torn apart DT drop into the mineral only Crazy Hydra reacts perfectly Shuttle gets caught too Storm over the mutas too, a few mutas fall DT falls after getting two drones
Lurkers are on the ground now though Nice storms on the hydras, but CH has an overwhelming amount If this was an engagement 5-7 minutes ago, Horang2 would have been ahead right now Mineral only is up for Horang2 now, but drop is researched Mineral only is gonna get mass dropped then I think its going to be game over
Lings pass by the first marine, getting down very low, scvs going to buffer for the scvs Second marine falls Third marine is out, some lings fall to the scvs Only a single ling left, more are coming to reinforce
Overlord speed for Hoejja, poking into the nat of BByong Scouts the goliath count, and the goliath range upgrade Muta scourge out now In mech, tanks come out later right?
Single muta, gets picked off by the goliath force poking out Hoejja just cancelled his third too Vulture kills off the drone sent to the 12 oclock for another expo
BByong wants to take the 9 oclock as a fourth +1 ranged attack for Hoejja, he also expanded to the 12 oclock as a fourth Lurkers added now No comsat, no academy in sight! No vessels either
1-1 for the mech Starport is finished now Third is up for the terran player now Drop is researched for Hoejja uh oh Turret is poking away at an overlord Lurkers and hydras in the mineral line CC floated up Tanks and mines are good against hydras Tons of hydra lurk falls to try and kill the CC
Hoejja taking 5 oclock main Attempted drop in the main of BByong, one overlord falls, out of three Second armory and science facility is up now Mech still on 1-1 Hydra ling Lurk for Hoejja, defilers in play now
Pretty big counter at the 9 oclock BByong holds with a single tank though 3 oclock is going to die now Swarm finishes at the 3 oclock BByong holds Still no vessels for BByong WTFMAN
BByong just camping up on the high ground at 3 oclock Going to push into the 12 oclock Four lurkers push into the units at 12, but BByong swings around to the 11 oclock where Hoejja has an expo Ultra cavern up for Hoejja now
12 oclock is going to get rolled through by BByong's steel army Nydus canal falls at the 12 oclock Ultra cavern going to fall also Huge mines getting ripped apart by mines GG from Hoejja BBYONG <3
On June 24 2012 15:14 Release wrote: Rules changed? Does that mean Flash can play BW for every game until end?
still not confirmed or denied. but they still list the third set people if it ended 2-0, but I don't know if that's just for the current day eligibility or for next match eligibility (i.e. "well since we lost bw 2-0 we can send him to sctoo now!)
On June 24 2012 15:11 MountainDewJunkie wrote: Hoejja still stinks at ZvT? The more you know
Mmmm not that simple. His 9 pool attempt was too costly and BByong followed up pretty much ideally, not doing any kind of gimmicky shit, just taking his expo asap, getting more factories up and pumping. I thought there might be a brief timing window in which Hoejja could launch an attack but in retrospect I don't even think there was. Still, it was actually somewhat impressive that Hoejja managed to make the game "as close" as it was.
Any ground units under the dark swarm do not take direct damage from ranged attacks. Splash damage still applies. The defiler casts it, not the overlord.
On June 24 2012 15:13 sc2superfan101 wrote: hmm... what is that orange-ish gaseous substance the overlords seem to be pooping out?
The turret detonation animation, most of the animations in BW are recycled, thats a miniature dark swarm if I recall correctly
okay so it is called dark swarm.
what does dark swarm do? (im sorry if i seem stupid asking all these questions)
Dark swarm, is what the defiler casted, its makes everything under it practically invulnerable to ranged attack. The orange thing is just an animation, not the actual dark swarm. In Brood War, animations were reused in everything The defiler, the scorpion like thing, casted it during the engagements and overtop the mech army
On June 24 2012 15:13 sc2superfan101 wrote: hmm... what is that orange-ish gaseous substance the overlords seem to be pooping out?
The turret detonation animation, most of the animations in BW are recycled, thats a miniature dark swarm if I recall correctly
okay so it is called dark swarm.
what does dark swarm do? (im sorry if i seem stupid asking all these questions)
Negates all range attack damage. Only splash and melee and spells can be used. Burrowed units do not even receive splash damage. 1 lurker under dark swarm and hypothetically fend off 100 tanks in siege mode.
There was a post somewhere about animations being reused in BW heavily, does anyone remember that? I only remember dark swarm being used as turret detention animation
On June 24 2012 15:23 sc2superfan101 wrote: oh ok, thanks. that seems very, very powerful.
What makes SC:BW such a great game is that all three races are completely and utterly broken and therefore they balance out. The beauty is just how well everything balances.
Edit : Something is really wrong because I never see stats shaking his head and talking him self in the booth before a game . Pc what's up with you today ?
Leta going to scout correctly Core up for Stats, no spinning just yet Fact is up now for Leta Throws down the nexus, with the scouting probe Probe going to scout Leta first too
Goons are moving back to try and kill off the tanks Leta pushes at the front, for the vultures to kill the probes Some nice spider mines killed off two goons Everything is scouted also Archives and stargate for Stats now, two base arbs
Two probes sent to 11 oclock after the first get sniped I guess I have to stop multi watching during proleague No upgrades yet for Stats, emp getting researched Arbiter coming in for a recall Starport gets sniped Zealots try and mine drop into the main mineral line Leta loses a few units, the port and maybe a turret
Stats taking 11 main and 11 nat behind this 11? gates in the main for Stats didn't get a clear count Both 11 oclock expos are up Three more facts started for Leta, 6 total Leta taking an expo at 7 oclock, but an obs spots it
Leta's 7 oclock got forced canceled or killed off Another recall into the nat, emp was delayed Second recall into the third also! Stats picking Leta apart with arbiters
I realised that they stopped showing the minerals/gas/supply of the players recently, which is pissing off because i want to know them. Anyone know why?
Two vultures and a tank dropped in the 11 oclock main Leta pushing forwad with his army after this distraction emp on the arbiter Stats going to try and take the 7 oclock too Stasis on some vultures, gols and a vessel Leta is unsieged!
11 oclock drop finally gets cleaned up Leta, expand please TT He keeps sacing vultures, does he have enough to buffer? +3 weapons for the terran mech now Leta's vultures are not in position to buffer for the tanks Huge storm on a clump of tanks Leta look sin trouble now
Wow. Stats determined to throw this game away. Stacking his arbs so Leta can EMP all at once. Having all his HT storm the same group of tanks instead of doing Jangbi-esque storming across the screen.
Stats taking 7 oclock natural now 11 oclock is the next target of the steel army of the terran LOL Stats mining gas with like 8 probes at 12 oclock Stats going to counter attack now Huge minefield though, softens up a ton of units
On June 24 2012 16:07 X10A wrote: Maybe this will turn out like Leta vs Pure on CB Leta's army at 11 oclock is going to get rolled through now Fleet beacon for Stats
Pure has the brains of a gnat. I think stats looks like the nerdy kid people pick on.
On June 24 2012 16:05 HighTemper wrote: Sigh, not a good position to base trade. Why didn't Leta even try to take 7...
He did earlier in the game, but it was killed off
Yeah, by 2 zealots when Stats double expands 10 and 11. But he has two opportunities to try again after the 2 recall attacks, he didn't even try over the 5+ time span.
Okay, so, I used to consider creep spread as the sign of SC2 skill in Proleague, but I'm moving more towards hotkeys. Two weeks ago, Flash won a game when he dropped his opponent's main and the opponent (Bogus, I think?) moved his whole army back to deal with it, leaving his tanks undefended.
JangBi did a drop with a similar effect last week, but it was too little too late.
So I'm keeping an eye on who's splitting their armies properly this week.
On June 24 2012 16:15 Ribbon wrote: Okay, so, I used to consider creep spread as the sign of SC2 skill in Proleague, but I'm moving more towards hotkeys. Two weeks ago, Flash won a game when he dropped his opponent's main and the opponent (Bogus, I think?) moved his whole army back to deal with it, leaving his tanks undefended. .
On June 24 2012 16:09 Ksquared wrote: BW PvT is so much more tense than its SC2 counterpart.
a few weeks ago i might have told you to bite your tongue.
now i am biting mine.
You should se BW PvP!
SC2 PvP is so terrible. It's devolves into who has the most Tripods, and it's really sad
I can't believe I miss 4gate vs 4gate, but at least there was micro in that. Modern SC2 PvP is 20 minutes of turtling into lasers into gg, and it's even worse at the SPL level.
On June 24 2012 16:15 Mortality wrote: BW is such a better game to watch IMO. I think some fans would probably say TvT is better in SC2, but to them I say: Flash vs Fantasy.
SC2 PvP is like all the bad parts of BW TvT, and I actually really like BW TvT (which might be why I like SC2?)
On June 24 2012 16:15 Mortality wrote: BW is such a better game to watch IMO. I think some fans would probably say TvT is better in SC2, but to them I say: Flash vs Fantasy.
Oh c'mon, we don't need S-class to enjoy TvT. Leta, Bogus, FBH, skyHigh (when he was good) all play pretty enjoyable TvTs.
Flash has improved a lot since his first SCToo match with Effort (where he tried to turtle against a Zerg, which isn't a good idea in SC2). I think he can take Effort this time around.
SC2 matchups are foreign and I dont really consider many of them as entertaining just yet. TvT is just weird (bio vs bio???) and PvP is atrocious. ZvP and ZvZ are more fun SC2 matchups to watch. Especially ZvZ. Its not so much of a toss up or BO matchup. SC2 ZvZ offers a lot more diversity in play styles.
On June 24 2012 16:20 raga4ka wrote: Effort show them what an S - class zerg's mechanics can do in SC2 .
TSL.Symbol has suddenly burst out with way better mechanics than anyone in SC2, and he's been dominating lately (I think he's on a 14 game win streak). Which is awesome, because it proves such a thing is possible.
But Symbol is way better than Effort at SC2, and will be for quite some time.
On June 24 2012 16:22 TheShimmy wrote: SC2 matchups are foreign and I dont really consider many of them as entertaining just yet. TvT is just weird (bio vs bio???) and PvP is atrocious. ZvP and ZvZ are more fun SC2 matchups to watch. Especially ZvZ. Its not so much of a toss up or BO matchup. SC2 ZvZ offers a lot more diversity in play styles.
I've heard people calling ZvZ the best SC2 matchup at top levels recently, but I haven't seen any tip-top ZvZs in a while, so I don't know.
Flash going 14CC, obviously. I think it's actually safer in SC2 than it is in BW.
Flash cheerful says I will beat everyone in sc2 then vacation to Canada, I approve of this <3 Pool is done at the same time the hatch is, rax and gas for Flash after the CC
Fire vultures moving around for map control greenScarab building on the way now too greenScarab, speedling and 1.5 tier hydra all in? +1 armor and +1 weapons for bio upgrading No extra stim or stim yet I think
Roach-bling bust is a very strong early bust which if you play greedily (which flash is doing right now) it can straight up kill you. You need tanks to be completely safe from it.
greenScarabs morphing in Flash is pretty dead greenScarabs kill the depots and the bunkers 1.5 tier hydras pushing through the wall Flash pulling all scvs greenScarabs get into the main gg from Flash
On June 24 2012 16:27 J1.au wrote: You guys have got to explain for SC2 newbies like me. ><
Flash opened with a very greedy opening that doesn't really hit its stride until about 10 mins - it's a 3 CC, fast upgrade build. Effort scouted it, and chose an extremely aggressive 2 base all-in, which crushed Flash. In order to hold that build he would have needed banshees or tanks, but neither of those options allows for much ability to attack until deeper into the game, as opposed to the bio/hellion build which would have given Flash alot of agency if he hadn't died.
I'm actually miffed at Effort. Yes, all-inning a guy who plays super-greedy is smart, but it also robs us of a Flash/Effort macro game. What about MY needs, Effort?
On June 24 2012 16:29 DMXD wrote: Effort is like the only zerg that punish Flash for being geedy as hell.
I have two accounts in gm with terran, I use that opener all the time.. its a MKP opener and it can defend roach/bane all ins all day.. on that map 6 hellions is good.. but he didn;t transfer the factory to the techlab rax and get tanks as fast as he could have after the hellions.. he also got only 1 bunker behind his other..he executed the build incorrectly = /
On June 24 2012 16:15 Mortality wrote: BW is such a better game to watch IMO. I think some fans would probably say TvT is better in SC2, but to them I say: Flash vs Fantasy.
Oh c'mon, we don't need S-class to enjoy TvT. Leta, Bogus, FBH, skyHigh (when he was good) all play pretty enjoyable TvTs.
OMFG, GOD VS MESSIAH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
With the exception of Bogus, all those players were at one point S-class in TvT so...
Personally, I'm a huge fan of TvT. Always have been. Sometimes it does get a bit boring if the wrong 2 players are involved and there was that period back when TvT was dominated by the likes of Canata where everyone was just building tank lines and splitting the map into hour long BC-fests, but on the whole I love the match-up.
On June 24 2012 16:27 J1.au wrote: You guys have got to explain for SC2 newbies like me. ><
Flash opened with a very greedy opening that doesn't really hit its stride until about 10 mins - it's a 3 CC, fast upgrade build. Effort scouted it, and chose an extremely aggressive 2 base all-in, which crushed Flash. In order to hold that build he would have needed banshees or tanks, but neither of those options allows for much ability to attack until deeper into the game, as opposed to the bio/hellion build which would have given Flash alot of agency if he hadn't died.
On June 24 2012 16:31 Ribbon wrote: I'm actually miffed at Effort. Yes, all-inning a guy who plays super-greedy is smart, but it also robs us of a Flash/Effort macro game. What about MY needs, Effort?
On June 24 2012 16:31 Ribbon wrote: I'm actually miffed at Effort. Yes, all-inning a guy who plays super-greedy is smart, but it also robs us of a Flash/Effort macro game. What about MY needs, Effort?
Well CJ will most likely win the SC2 so he will come out for the ACE match to redeem himself .
On June 24 2012 16:31 Ribbon wrote: I'm actually miffed at Effort. Yes, all-inning a guy who plays super-greedy is smart, but it also robs us of a Flash/Effort macro game. What about MY needs, Effort?
Well CJ will most likely win the SC2 so he will come out for the ACE match to redeem himself .
On June 24 2012 16:27 J1.au wrote: You guys have got to explain for SC2 newbies like me. ><
Flash opened with a very greedy opening that doesn't really hit its stride until about 10 mins - it's a 3 CC, fast upgrade build. Effort scouted it, and chose an extremely aggressive 2 base all-in, which crushed Flash. In order to hold that build he would have needed banshees or tanks, but neither of those options allows for much ability to attack until deeper into the game, as opposed to the bio/hellion build which would have given Flash alot of agency if he hadn't died.
Yeah, Zergs are getting wise to Terrans 3 CC opening strat. They know there will be no Tanks or Bashees so go Roach and Baneling to bust their way in.
Out of TLBS Flash is still the best, but compared to the rest now - TLBS is not even average. Of course I am not judging this because this game. It's my general impression so far. Hopefully they will become strong again.
It occurs to me that both of the Flash/Effort games had Flash play greedy, Effort making a sensible response (playing hilariously greedy opening day, doing an all-in now), and Flash being caught off-guard.
On June 24 2012 16:36 Ribbon wrote: It occurs to me that both of the Flash/Effort games had Flash play greedy, Effort making a sensible response (playing hilariously greedy opening day, doing an all-in now), and Flash being caught off-guard.
Dude needs to improve his scouting :|
its not scouting... just bad execution of build.. and the hellions are for scouting.. but he chased lings to his main = /
Flash needs to just retire.. He is hurting his legacy more than helping it at this point.. The fact is he started playing ScToo to late in the game, and at a point were Terrans have been nerfed into meaninglessness.. Even top Terrans who have played since beta are having a rediculously hard time winning right now, and it doesnt appear to be changing anytime soon.
On June 24 2012 16:22 TheShimmy wrote: SC2 matchups are foreign and I dont really consider many of them as entertaining just yet. TvT is just weird (bio vs bio???) and PvP is atrocious. ZvP and ZvZ are more fun SC2 matchups to watch. Especially ZvZ. Its not so much of a toss up or BO matchup. SC2 ZvZ offers a lot more diversity in play styles.
I've heard people calling ZvZ the best SC2 matchup at top levels recently, but I haven't seen any tip-top ZvZs in a while, so I don't know.
Flash going 14CC, obviously. I think it's actually safer in SC2 than it is in BW.
It's actually a really greedy play and he got punished for it. 1 rax FE is alot safer than what Flash has been doing. Suprised his opponents havent been punishing it more. Doing some type of CC first works when your not playing a Bo1 and you know your opponent likes to play greedy and you want to play a macro game with him.
On June 24 2012 16:35 jaQi wrote: Out of TLBS Flash is still the best, but compared to the rest now - TLBS is not even average. Of course I am not judging this because this game. It's my general impression so far. Hopefully they will become strong again.
On June 24 2012 16:35 jaQi wrote: Out of TLBS Flash is still the best, but compared to the rest now - TLBS is not even average. Of course I am not judging this because this game. It's my general impression so far. Hopefully they will become strong again.
On June 24 2012 16:35 jaQi wrote: Out of TLBS Flash is still the best, but compared to the rest now - TLBS is not even average. Of course I am not judging this because this game. It's my general impression so far. Hopefully they will become strong again.
Wad is TLBS?
TaekBangLeeSang Stands for Bisu Stork Jaedong and Flash Taek for Bisu Bang as a nickname for Stork I believe Lee Sang meaning two Lee, Lee JaeDong and Lee YoungHo
On June 24 2012 16:38 sGs.Stregon wrote: Flash needs to just retire.. He is hurting his legacy more than helping it at this point.. The fact is he started playing ScToo to late in the game, and at a point were Terrans have been nerfed into meaninglessness.. Even top Terrans who have played since beta are having a rediculously hard time winning right now, and it doesnt appear to be changing anytime soon.
Wow, as much as I don't like SCtoo, I wouldn't say that until Kespa completely switch to SCtoo. Just wait till OSL is over, Flash will roflstomp left and right.
On June 24 2012 16:38 sGs.Stregon wrote: Flash needs to just retire.. He is hurting his legacy more than helping it at this point.. The fact is he started playing ScToo to late in the game, and at a point were Terrans have been nerfed into meaninglessness.. Even top Terrans who have played since beta are having a rediculously hard time winning right now, and it doesnt appear to be changing anytime soon.
Are you just trolling? Lol?
Wait until after the first ALL SC2 OSL and first ALL SC2 PL. The PLers will have a plethora of S class players. I dont see the problems with terrans winning either? Plenty are doing well in the NASL and GSL.
On June 24 2012 16:38 sGs.Stregon wrote: Flash needs to just retire.. He is hurting his legacy more than helping it at this point.. The fact is he started playing ScToo to late in the game, and at a point were Terrans have been nerfed into meaninglessness.. Even top Terrans who have played since beta are having a rediculously hard time winning right now, and it doesnt appear to be changing anytime soon.
Not to get into a balance whine thread, but Terran couldn't beat Protoss back in April, and they managed to work that out.
Terrans don't know how to open aggressively right now, and Zerg are playing greedier than they should be able to in response. I'm sure that'll be fixed soon enough.
And, anyway, I've yet to see an SPL player do the 6 queen opening GSL terrans are sad about.
Okay, a ZvP. That's not too...aw, it's hero[join], of the hilarious opening day game.
On June 24 2012 16:36 Ribbon wrote: It occurs to me that both of the Flash/Effort games had Flash play greedy, Effort making a sensible response (playing hilariously greedy opening day, doing an all-in now), and Flash being caught off-guard.
Dude needs to improve his scouting :|
its not scouting... just bad execution of build.. and the hellions are for scouting.. but he chased lings to his main = /
MKP uses that build for pure bio more than siege tank openings, siege tank openings allow the zerg to get 90 drones, 3 ocs become irrelevant.
On June 24 2012 16:38 sGs.Stregon wrote: Flash needs to just retire.. He is hurting his legacy more than helping it at this point.. The fact is he started playing ScToo to late in the game, and at a point were Terrans have been nerfed into meaninglessness.. Even top Terrans who have played since beta are having a rediculously hard time winning right now, and it doesnt appear to be changing anytime soon.
Flash still gets like what 250 000 $ a year in salary alone ? Doesn't matter if he plays checkers with that income . As bad as SC2 is right now Blizzard promises to make it better with the expansions in the future .
hero[join] doesn't have the APM to keep up the probe mining denial.
What he was doing was mining from Action's minerals and canceling before the probe actually got the minerals. It blocks the patch while the probe is mining, but hero let the probe get a mineral much sooner than most SC2 pros do.
On June 24 2012 16:38 sGs.Stregon wrote: Flash needs to just retire.. He is hurting his legacy more than helping it at this point.. The fact is he started playing ScToo to late in the game, and at a point were Terrans have been nerfed into meaninglessness.. Even top Terrans who have played since beta are having a rediculously hard time winning right now, and it doesnt appear to be changing anytime soon.
Wow, as much as I don't like SCtoo, I wouldn't say that until Kespa completely switch to SCtoo. Just wait till OSL is over, Flash will roflstomp left and right.
in regards to ScToo, Flash is no were near ((nor would he be even after OSL)) the level of the likes of MVP or MKP.. I would even go so far as the say that Thorzian/Polt/Puma will be better than Flash.. Its going to take more than just 1 more season for Flash to catch these players, and the way the game is going currently ((balance wise)) Terran, as a race, wont be reciving any sort of love ((in the form of actuall Buffs and/or nerfs to the other races)) to help them win. So it is nothing but an uphill battle at this point for Flash, and if he conitues the journey, he will damage his legacy more than build upon it..
On June 24 2012 16:38 sGs.Stregon wrote: Flash needs to just retire.. He is hurting his legacy more than helping it at this point.. The fact is he started playing ScToo to late in the game, and at a point were Terrans have been nerfed into meaninglessness.. Even top Terrans who have played since beta are having a rediculously hard time winning right now, and it doesnt appear to be changing anytime soon.
Flash still gets like what 250 000 $ a year in salary alone ? Doesn't matter if he plays checkers with that income . As bad as SC2 is right now Blizzard promises to make it better with the expansions in the future .
You are right, he still makes bank ((untill the full shift into ScToo, at which point his salary drops considerably, because he isnt preforming in a fashion to deserve that kind of pay)), but he is still damaging the reputation he has built for himself, and if he contiues playing, he will only hurt it further than what he already has..
On June 24 2012 16:38 sGs.Stregon wrote: Flash needs to just retire.. He is hurting his legacy more than helping it at this point.. The fact is he started playing ScToo to late in the game, and at a point were Terrans have been nerfed into meaninglessness.. Even top Terrans who have played since beta are having a rediculously hard time winning right now, and it doesnt appear to be changing anytime soon.
Flash still gets like what 250 000 $ a year in salary alone ? Doesn't matter if he plays checkers with that income . As bad as SC2 is right now Blizzard promises to make it better with the expansions in the future .
More than promises, HotS is generally agreed to be an improvement, due to more interesting units requiring more multitasking and thus more APM and mechanical skill. It's prob only 10-20 APM more, but there's also a lot more anti-deathball AOE, so, you know. Baby steps.
Third base on the way for Action Hero scout this, but his probe is getting chased by lings Manages to get back home with just one or two hits left on it
On June 24 2012 16:46 ev3r wrote: 7 terrans in the GSL RO16. nuff said.
?GSL is about preparation for specific opponents, trying to exploit their weaknesses, you rarely see standard builds being used, which means that general strength of a race has way less impact than preparation/mental stability, etc, nuff said.
eh, I know this is super late but the third set wasn't good and dunno why the yes:no ratio is as high. after drop and cute 4th denial leta and stats played super duper passive and even stats sat around for forever even after having 2 obs out. you don't just leave goons/obs sitting at natural.
stats should have been able to take that fourth easily and did really quite cost inefficient recalls (recalls much better when terran out of position). Leta also never even tried to build a cc to float after his ninja fourth was spotted.
Lair morphing in for Action, ling speed on the way, evo and 1.5 tier hydra building are both in the making imbagates have just finished, citadel on the way Hero decides to take a really quick third
Spire for Action now too +1 melee attack is just about to fniish +1 air attack is started mutas on the way Robo is up, tripod building on the way dtGoon flash is on the way Action has a fourth already
On June 24 2012 16:49 N.geNuity wrote: eh, I know this is super late but the third set wasn't good and dunno why the yes:no ratio is as high... + Show Spoiler +
after drop and cute 4th denial leta and stats played super duper passive and even stats sat around for forever even after having 2 obs out. you don't just leave goons/obs sitting at natural.
stats should have been able to take that fourth easily and did really quite cost inefficient recalls (recalls much better when terran out of position). Leta also never even tried to build a cc to float after his ninja fourth was spotted.
/random sidenote
Notice the BW polls are all biased towards the Yes side lately compare to say 2 years ago?
I think most of us BW fans would like to enjoy the game while it lasts...
Action's mutas pick off the core +2 air attack upgrading All the probes are dead for Hero Tripods are naked, and both get killed off to muta ling Fourth of Action gets killed
On June 24 2012 16:38 sGs.Stregon wrote: Flash needs to just retire.. He is hurting his legacy more than helping it at this point.. The fact is he started playing ScToo to late in the game, and at a point were Terrans have been nerfed into meaninglessness.. Even top Terrans who have played since beta are having a rediculously hard time winning right now, and it doesnt appear to be changing anytime soon.
Wait, what? Of anyone, Flash probably has the best chance to win OSL. Shine should be a walk-over. He's virtually guaranteed Ro4 appearance.
Flash will then face either Zero or the winner of Fantasy vs Soo. I'm not sure which. If it's Zero, then although Zero is good when he's "on" and has beaten Flash convincingly before, he has never won a series against Flash and Flash has an incredible TvZ record in BW right now while Zero is recovering from a slump. If he faces Fantasy, that's his hardest match, but if he faces Fantasy then that means Zero faces Jangbi and I'd pick Zero as the favorite there, while I think an in-form Jangbi might be a bit harder for Flash right now. If Soo wins and Flash faces Soo then he's just gonna ROFLSTOMP him all the way to the bank.
On June 24 2012 16:38 sGs.Stregon wrote: Flash needs to just retire.. He is hurting his legacy more than helping it at this point.. The fact is he started playing ScToo to late in the game, and at a point were Terrans have been nerfed into meaninglessness.. Even top Terrans who have played since beta are having a rediculously hard time winning right now, and it doesnt appear to be changing anytime soon.
Wow, as much as I don't like SCtoo, I wouldn't say that until Kespa completely switch to SCtoo. Just wait till OSL is over, Flash will roflstomp left and right.
in regards to ScToo, Flash is no were near ((nor would he be even after OSL)) the level of the likes of MVP or MKP.. I would even go so far as the say that Thorzian/Polt/Puma are better than Flash.. Its going to take more than just 1 more season for Flash to catch these players, and the way the game is going currently ((balance wise)) Terran, as a race, wont be reciving any sort of love ((in the form of actuall Buffs and/or nerfs to the other races)) to help them win. So it is nothing but an uphill battle at this point for Flash, and if he conitues the journey, he will damage his legacy more than build upon it..
Stop posting shit posts like this . You can't read skill levels at all and even if Flash is below the players you mention right now he will overtake them in HOTS . Read my previous post , why would Flash retire when he is probably the most payed progamer in history . He is making over a million $ playing BW and he will still get 6 figure salary in SC2 .
On June 24 2012 16:38 sGs.Stregon wrote: Flash needs to just retire.. He is hurting his legacy more than helping it at this point.. The fact is he started playing ScToo to late in the game, and at a point were Terrans have been nerfed into meaninglessness.. Even top Terrans who have played since beta are having a rediculously hard time winning right now, and it doesnt appear to be changing anytime soon.
Wait, what? Of anyone, Flash probably has the best chance to win OSL. Shine should be a walk-over. He's virtually guaranteed Ro4 appearance.
Flash will then face either Zero or the winner of Fantasy vs Soo. I'm not sure which. If it's Zero, then although Zero is good when he's "on" and has beaten Flash convincingly before, he has never won a series against Flash and Flash has an incredible TvZ record in BW right now while Zero is recovering from a slump. If he faces Fantasy, that's his hardest match, but if he faces Fantasy then that means Zero faces Jangbi and I'd pick Zero as the favorite there, while I think an in-form Jangbi might be a bit harder for Flash right now. If Soo wins and Flash faces Soo then he's just gonna ROFLSTOMP him all the way to the bank.
Zero is playing Jangbi on the other side of the bracket. If Flash wins vs Shine, will play either Fantasy or Soo in the second semi-final.
On June 24 2012 16:38 sGs.Stregon wrote: Flash needs to just retire.. He is hurting his legacy more than helping it at this point.. The fact is he started playing ScToo to late in the game, and at a point were Terrans have been nerfed into meaninglessness.. Even top Terrans who have played since beta are having a rediculously hard time winning right now, and it doesnt appear to be changing anytime soon.
Wait, what? Of anyone, Flash probably has the best chance to win OSL. Shine should be a walk-over. He's virtually guaranteed Ro4 appearance.
Flash will then face either Zero or the winner of Fantasy vs Soo. I'm not sure which. If it's Zero, then although Zero is good when he's "on" and has beaten Flash convincingly before, he has never won a series against Flash and Flash has an incredible TvZ record in BW right now while Zero is recovering from a slump. If he faces Fantasy, that's his hardest match, but if he faces Fantasy then that means Zero faces Jangbi and I'd pick Zero as the favorite there, while I think an in-form Jangbi might be a bit harder for Flash right now. If Soo wins and Flash faces Soo then he's just gonna ROFLSTOMP him all the way to the bank.
Zero is playing Jangbi on the other side of the bracket. If Flash wins vs Shine, will play either Fantasy or Soo in the second semi-final.
Okay, so that's pretty much ideal then for Flash. A victory over Soo (lol at the chances of that match even happening) would be certain and if he plays Fantasy then win or lose it gets that match out of the way, because he'd very likely have to face Fantasy in the finals anyway.
action made the perfect desicion to go for muta in the game, its nearly impossible to defend well enough against muta if you go for such a sentry heavy build
same thing happened to sun. "mutas? guess I'll go colossus". though I don't think people really go hardcore muta (I think I saw crazymoving do it while ago, in my limited sctoo watching).
On June 24 2012 16:59 N.geNuity wrote: same thing happened to sun. "mutas? guess I'll go colossus". though I don't think people really go hardcore muta (I think I saw crazymoving do it while ago, in my limited sctoo watching).
Zergs go hardcore muta when they have the chance to, at least they used to do that, protoss has a very hard time dealing with it, current meta is all about infestor play though.
On June 24 2012 16:54 Ribbon wrote: Okay, hero[join] is just fucking bad at SC2.
as bad as Flash would you say?
Flash is playing greedy and blind.
Hero is just awful around the board.
Do you think flash of all people would simply "play blind" for no reason?
yes. that's all flash does in bw too. he just has insane game sense (don't want to bother to dig up thread, but there are videos of him just like randomly scanning an area above a cliff and seeing like dropships incoming; some translations of koreans calling him "hacker" or wahtever for his game knowledge). Terran also can take a much more defensive posture in bw.
but he doesn't have as much sc2 sense yet, as well as the design of terran being completely different (and game in general).
On June 24 2012 16:54 Ribbon wrote: Okay, hero[join] is just fucking bad at SC2.
as bad as Flash would you say?
Flash is playing greedy and blind.
Hero is just awful around the board.
Do you think flash of all people would simply "play blind" for no reason?
Well....he did, twice, so.....yeah.
He has a reason, I guess, Effort did a good job of distracting with lings (and splitting them to maximize the time Flash spent killing them!), but still. If you go 14CC, you can afford a scan.
On June 24 2012 16:54 Ribbon wrote: Okay, hero[join] is just fucking bad at SC2.
as bad as Flash would you say?
Flash is playing greedy and blind.
Hero is just awful around the board.
I dont know if you know this or not.. But the current state of TvZ in ScToo is the Terran HAS to play greedy, because they cannot effectivly harass and/or contain Zerg ((because Queen range buff)).. and Terran playing greedy is succeptable to 2 base all ins from zerg, if the zerg doesnt decide to just out greed the Terran and win late game regardless.. What I am saying is the current state of TvZ in ScToo is if your Terran just GG out as soon as the game starts, because every second that passes by, your chances or winning reduce considerably.. ((better all-in with whatever forces you have and all of your scv's by the 10 min mark if you want to win))
Glad the OP is updating the results for sc2 as well
If you aren't going to do both sets don't make a thread T_T I missed all the games but from what I gather flash played effort and lost as efforts sexy and action won the next game?
On June 24 2012 16:59 N.geNuity wrote: same thing happened to sun. "mutas? guess I'll go colossus". though I don't think people really go hardcore muta (I think I saw crazymoving do it while ago, in my limited sctoo watching).
Zergs go hardcore muta when they have the chance to, at least they used to do that, protoss has a very hard time dealing with it, current meta is all about infestor play though.
Range Phoenixes gigglestomp mutas, but aren't good for much else, so the "proper" response is Psi Storm, unless you already opened stargate.
On June 24 2012 16:59 N.geNuity wrote: same thing happened to sun. "mutas? guess I'll go colossus". though I don't think people really go hardcore muta (I think I saw crazymoving do it while ago, in my limited sctoo watching).
Zergs go hardcore muta when they have the chance to, at least they used to do that, protoss has a very hard time dealing with it, current meta is all about infestor play though.
Range Phoenixes gigglestomp mutas, but aren't good for much else, so the "proper" response is Psi Storm, unless you already opened stargate.
I consider toss not opening stargate all the chance zerg needs to go mass muta, even against storm.
Btw, Nestea is doing mass muta right now in the IPL5 KR regionals.
On June 24 2012 16:59 Windwaker wrote: action made the perfect desicion to go for muta in the game, its nearly impossible to defend well enough against muta if you go for such a sentry heavy build
On June 24 2012 17:01 blade55555 wrote: Glad the OP is updating the results for sc2 as well
If you aren't going to do both sets don't make a thread T_T I missed all the games but from what I gather flash played effort and lost as efforts sexy and action won the next game?
Flash vs EffOrt = Flash dying to roach/ling.bane all in after he went cc first into reactor hellions into 3rd cc into double upgrades (oh flash...)
Next game action went muta/ling off 3 base and herO went stalker/colossus and attempted a half-hearted base trade scenario.
On June 24 2012 16:59 N.geNuity wrote: same thing happened to sun. "mutas? guess I'll go colossus". though I don't think people really go hardcore muta (I think I saw crazymoving do it while ago, in my limited sctoo watching).
its used to be used alot, but it has grown out of style because a archon/2 hts(with awarenes) and enough cannons can practily defend vs any number of mutas and archon ht(also protosses started establishing their thirds alot earlier wich is pretty tough when mutas were out) shits on ling mutas in any direct engaments, so nowadays mutas are used hardcore less often.
I think all people who said Flash should be reitire now are stupid becuase he just play only few month and he must concentrate OSL too. In addition, nowadays zerg is imba. MKP has only 10 percent win rate of TVZ.
On June 24 2012 17:09 Zerofinal wrote: I think all people who said Flash should be reitire now are stupid becuase he just play only few month and he must concentrate OSL too. In addition, nowadays zerg is imba. MKP has only 10 percent win rate of TVZ.
dtGoon out first, going to deny the scv scout Wooki expanding, imbagates researching Nat is up and running for Skyhigh now Two more gates, 3 total for Wooki
On June 24 2012 17:09 Zerofinal wrote: I think all people who said Flash should be reitire now are stupid becuase he just play only few month and he must concentrate OSL too. In addition, nowadays zerg is imba. MKP has only 10 percent win rate of TVZ.
On June 24 2012 17:09 Zerofinal wrote: I think all people who said Flash should be reitire now are stupid becuase he just play only few month and he must concentrate OSL too. In addition, nowadays zerg is imba. MKP has only 10 percent win rate of TVZ.
Wow, you create a new account to post this?
This is my first account
First = New account.. So HighTemper's post is still valid.
Skyhigh could've killed wooki by either dropping on his face(not enough stalkers), dropping his main, or even just stimming with all his scvs, wooki had like no army, at all.
Pretty big engagement Wooki crushes through Skyhigh's bioball Still no football player slow +3, cloaking and +1 air attacks on the way 3/3 done for Toss now Skyhigh taking a fifth now 12 gates now
Wooki starting to produce tripods again 7 oclock third is the 5th base Skyhigh sends a small task force to snipe a tripod Skyhigh adding rax, banking 4 digit minerals and gas
The main is just about dead, Wooki has a nexus at the 7 oclock third now Scans and sees Wooki's forces Four groundArbiters, rampStasis would kill that force
Skyhigh should sac a portion of his army, and load up his healing dropships and drop all over the nexus and pylons Huge engagement midmap Storm on a ton of his units GG from Skyhigh KT takes the match
On June 24 2012 16:54 Ribbon wrote: Okay, hero[join] is just fucking bad at SC2.
as bad as Flash would you say?
Flash is playing greedy and blind.
Hero is just awful around the board.
I dont know if you know this or not.. But the current state of TvZ in ScToo is the Terran HAS to play greedy, because they cannot effectivly harass and/or contain Zerg ((because Queen range buff)).. and Terran playing greedy is succeptable to 2 base all ins from zerg, if the zerg doesnt decide to just out greed the Terran and win late game regardless.. What I am saying is the current state of TvZ in ScToo is if your Terran just GG out as soon as the game starts, because every second that passes by, your chances or winning reduce considerably.. ((better all-in with whatever forces you have and all of your scv's by the 10 min mark if you want to win))
Newsflash: Code S Zergs still die to MarineTankMedivac pushes when controlled properly. The only problem is that they have to siege on creep, but terrans start to explore different options, like Bio only (no siege) or Ravens (creep denial) in late-midgame. Give terrans a bit time, they'll come up with something.
Why can't you harass the Zerg because of the Queen buff? Your statement is just very wrong.
On June 24 2012 16:54 Ribbon wrote: Okay, hero[join] is just fucking bad at SC2.
as bad as Flash would you say?
Flash is playing greedy and blind.
Hero is just awful around the board.
I dont know if you know this or not.. But the current state of TvZ in ScToo is the Terran HAS to play greedy, because they cannot effectivly harass and/or contain Zerg ((because Queen range buff)).. and Terran playing greedy is succeptable to 2 base all ins from zerg, if the zerg doesnt decide to just out greed the Terran and win late game regardless.. What I am saying is the current state of TvZ in ScToo is if your Terran just GG out as soon as the game starts, because every second that passes by, your chances or winning reduce considerably.. ((better all-in with whatever forces you have and all of your scv's by the 10 min mark if you want to win))
Newsflash: Code S Zergs still die to MarineTankMedivac pushes when controlled properly. The only problem is that they have to siege on creep, but terrans start to explore different options, like Bio only (no siege) or Ravens (creep denial) in late-midgame. Give terrans a bit time, they'll come up with something.
Why can't you harass the Zerg because of the Queen buff? Your statement is just very wrong.
Because the 6 queen build can basically stop every all in or pressure. You can't do anything with hellions.
On June 24 2012 16:54 Ribbon wrote: Okay, hero[join] is just fucking bad at SC2.
as bad as Flash would you say?
Flash is playing greedy and blind.
Hero is just awful around the board.
I dont know if you know this or not.. But the current state of TvZ in ScToo is the Terran HAS to play greedy, because they cannot effectivly harass and/or contain Zerg ((because Queen range buff)).. and Terran playing greedy is succeptable to 2 base all ins from zerg, if the zerg doesnt decide to just out greed the Terran and win late game regardless.. What I am saying is the current state of TvZ in ScToo is if your Terran just GG out as soon as the game starts, because every second that passes by, your chances or winning reduce considerably.. ((better all-in with whatever forces you have and all of your scv's by the 10 min mark if you want to win))
Newsflash: Code S Zergs still die to MarineTankMedivac pushes when controlled properly. The only problem is that they have to siege on creep, but terrans start to explore different options, like Bio only (no siege) or Ravens (creep denial) in late-midgame. Give terrans a bit time, they'll come up with something.
Why can't you harass the Zerg because of the Queen buff? Your statement is just very wrong.
Because the 6 queen build can basically stop every all in or pressure. You can't do anything with hellions.
No it can't. It denies Hellions better, but it's not the Holy Grail of ZvT as you still need spines against pretty much every all-in. I don't kow why this even comes up. Also, you still have map control with Hellions unless Zerg makes a ton of Zerglings at this point (which they shouldn't if they want to saturate third base).
If they do not saturate and let you get up third base, you can push with upgrades and trade very well. Am i the only one here who actually plays TvZ?
On June 24 2012 16:54 Ribbon wrote: Okay, hero[join] is just fucking bad at SC2.
as bad as Flash would you say?
Flash is playing greedy and blind.
Hero is just awful around the board.
I dont know if you know this or not.. But the current state of TvZ in ScToo is the Terran HAS to play greedy, because they cannot effectivly harass and/or contain Zerg ((because Queen range buff)).. and Terran playing greedy is succeptable to 2 base all ins from zerg, if the zerg doesnt decide to just out greed the Terran and win late game regardless.. What I am saying is the current state of TvZ in ScToo is if your Terran just GG out as soon as the game starts, because every second that passes by, your chances or winning reduce considerably.. ((better all-in with whatever forces you have and all of your scv's by the 10 min mark if you want to win))
Newsflash: Code S Zergs still die to MarineTankMedivac pushes when controlled properly. The only problem is that they have to siege on creep, but terrans start to explore different options, like Bio only (no siege) or Ravens (creep denial) in late-midgame. Give terrans a bit time, they'll come up with something.
Why can't you harass the Zerg because of the Queen buff? Your statement is just very wrong.
Because the 6 queen build can basically stop every all in or pressure. You can't do anything with hellions.
No it can't. It denies Hellions better, but it's not the Holy Grail of ZvT as you still need spines against pretty much every all-in. I don't kow why this even comes up. Also, you still have map control with Hellions unless Zerg makes a ton of Zerglings at this point (which they shouldn't if they want to saturate third base).
If they do not saturate and let you get up third base, you can push with upgrades and trade very well. Am i the only one here who actually plays TvZ?
You should teach GSL code A/S Terran because pretty much every single one of them complained about this MU.
so effort is a very savvy player to say the least. he seems to have a very good idea how to react to what he's being given. Flash shows signs of brilliance, but also shows a kind of stubbornness that might become worrisome. his mechanics are perfect, even his game sense seems legit, just like he's not used to the volatility of TvZ. so far i've been pretty impressed with him though, even with all his mistakes.
it's just such a wildly different game right now, and he probably switched at the worst possible time, being a terran. i don't want to get into balance issues, but the fact is that terran's are suffering a bit, a lot of it is just that the metagame(?) has shifted away from what it was, and also in my opinion, the zerg and protoss are starting to become much more figured out by their respective players. Flash, being a terran, is going to struggle because it's either up to him or another terran to figure out new styles of play to counter protoss and zerg greed (i still love you guys!)
he should NOT retire unless he just absolutely hates the game or is completely uninterested in it. i see something in his play that makes me excited to watch him. he's getting better, he's learning. it takes a lot of time to switch over to a completely different style of play. watching TvX in BW, the matchups are just... about as different as you can get imo. BW matchups are also MUCH more figured out and stable, which makes it easier for a player of his caliber to shine through. as it is, every week the MU changes form completely and is almost unrecognizable from the week before. i pray that HotS can fix a lot of these issues, and hopefully bring some balance to the force.
Flash would get rocked and rolled by Polt. yes. he would get rocked and rolled by most GSL code A players if not all of them. but that is nothing to be ashamed of or anything to worry about. if in six months he is still playing at a sub-Code A level, than we can worry about him. as of now, he's been focusing on SC2 for what? two months? maybe three? MVP and MKP have been playing this game at a high level for two and half years. he needs time to get his feet under him.
another thing to consider is this: whatever the fans feel about BW going away... Flash and players like him probably feel it about 10,000x worse. they would have to be made of stone to not have some worries and fears about their performance, and to not have a lot of regrets and worries about BW. that kind of mental "baggage" for lack of a better term is going to affect their play. until they get settled in and are able to focus on SC2 completely, they will have a tough time showing the sheer brilliance that they became legends for showing. the dude is what? 20 years old, if that? okay that isn't really a kid anymore, but that is still a really young guy. his life and career have been turned upside down. give them another couple of months before you start planning their funeral.
all is not lost. Flash annihilated the Kespa thing in MLG. Jaedong just won tonight. Effort is extraordinarily impressive in his play and game sense. none of the big names have quit yet, which speaks 1) to their unreal dedication and 2) to the fact that they haven't given up yet. the fans can't give up on them or else why are they even trying so hard to learn this new game at breakneck speed? sure a lot of it is probably for the money, but a lot of it is their fucking balls-to-the-walls pride. you can see it in the way they keep stepping up despite all the shit that's being thrown at them.
idk what point im making here. i'm fucking pumped, and you should be too, i guess is what im saying. no, thats not it either. if you don't like SC2 than you don't like SC2. no one should try to bully anyone into liking something they don't like. but if you love the players and love the teams, than just hang in there. they WILL get better. Flash will roflstomp MVP some day. I promise. it's gonna be painful for everyone until then, but hey, no pain no gain.
On June 24 2012 16:54 Ribbon wrote: Okay, hero[join] is just fucking bad at SC2.
as bad as Flash would you say?
Flash is playing greedy and blind.
Hero is just awful around the board.
I dont know if you know this or not.. But the current state of TvZ in ScToo is the Terran HAS to play greedy, because they cannot effectivly harass and/or contain Zerg ((because Queen range buff)).. and Terran playing greedy is succeptable to 2 base all ins from zerg, if the zerg doesnt decide to just out greed the Terran and win late game regardless.. What I am saying is the current state of TvZ in ScToo is if your Terran just GG out as soon as the game starts, because every second that passes by, your chances or winning reduce considerably.. ((better all-in with whatever forces you have and all of your scv's by the 10 min mark if you want to win))
Newsflash: Code S Zergs still die to MarineTankMedivac pushes when controlled properly. The only problem is that they have to siege on creep, but terrans start to explore different options, like Bio only (no siege) or Ravens (creep denial) in late-midgame. Give terrans a bit time, they'll come up with something.
Why can't you harass the Zerg because of the Queen buff? Your statement is just very wrong.
Because the 6 queen build can basically stop every all in or pressure. You can't do anything with hellions.
No it can't. It denies Hellions better, but it's not the Holy Grail of ZvT as you still need spines against pretty much every all-in. I don't kow why this even comes up. Also, you still have map control with Hellions unless Zerg makes a ton of Zerglings at this point (which they shouldn't if they want to saturate third base).
If they do not saturate and let you get up third base, you can push with upgrades and trade very well. Am i the only one here who actually plays TvZ?
6 queen opening? You don't need a single spine unless they double reactor mass hellions. Simcity, lings, and blocking your ramp with queens and popping early roaches after you drop 3rd hatch and defending with roach ling stops every single all in and still puts you on 3 base with creep to their wall in like 13 minutes. It's sickening.
On June 25 2012 00:16 reincremate wrote: Funny how KT has gone back to fielding its six best players instead of having Lizzy play some of the worst professional Starcraft ever shown on TV.
Oh come on... Lizzy isn't THAT bad. He's pretty good SC2 :D
FlaSh... TT.TT please do better. Just pretend that this is international plz
Hi folks, sorry for the off-topic, but does anyone know when Flash vs Shine is happening? The OSL English Rebroadcast is in the calendar but the event itself doesn't seem to be. I really don't want to miss it so I'm going a little crazy. Thanks in advance.
Didn't get to see this but nice to see Effort winning but sad to find out Flash lost in SC2. Call me old-fashioned but if this transfer is gonna happen, I'd rather that it result in SC2 have a little stability in terms of who's generally winning and what-not. May a real definite bonjwa rise. May Flash (or Effort or Bisu or JD) start winning practically everything.
On June 24 2012 19:57 sc2superfan101 wrote: so effort is a very savvy player to say the least. he seems to have a very good idea how to react to what he's being given. Flash shows signs of brilliance, but also shows a kind of stubbornness that might become worrisome. his mechanics are perfect, even his game sense seems legit, just like he's not used to the volatility of TvZ. so far i've been pretty impressed with him though, even with all his mistakes.
it's just such a wildly different game right now, and he probably switched at the worst possible time, being a terran. i don't want to get into balance issues, but the fact is that terran's are suffering a bit, a lot of it is just that the metagame(?) has shifted away from what it was, and also in my opinion, the zerg and protoss are starting to become much more figured out by their respective players. Flash, being a terran, is going to struggle because it's either up to him or another terran to figure out new styles of play to counter protoss and zerg greed (i still love you guys!)
he should NOT retire unless he just absolutely hates the game or is completely uninterested in it. i see something in his play that makes me excited to watch him. he's getting better, he's learning. it takes a lot of time to switch over to a completely different style of play. watching TvX in BW, the matchups are just... about as different as you can get imo. BW matchups are also MUCH more figured out and stable, which makes it easier for a player of his caliber to shine through. as it is, every week the MU changes form completely and is almost unrecognizable from the week before. i pray that HotS can fix a lot of these issues, and hopefully bring some balance to the force.
Flash would get rocked and rolled by Polt. yes. he would get rocked and rolled by most GSL code A players if not all of them. but that is nothing to be ashamed of or anything to worry about. if in six months he is still playing at a sub-Code A level, than we can worry about him. as of now, he's been focusing on SC2 for what? two months? maybe three? MVP and MKP have been playing this game at a high level for two and half years. he needs time to get his feet under him.
another thing to consider is this: whatever the fans feel about BW going away... Flash and players like him probably feel it about 10,000x worse. they would have to be made of stone to not have some worries and fears about their performance, and to not have a lot of regrets and worries about BW. that kind of mental "baggage" for lack of a better term is going to affect their play. until they get settled in and are able to focus on SC2 completely, they will have a tough time showing the sheer brilliance that they became legends for showing. the dude is what? 20 years old, if that? okay that isn't really a kid anymore, but that is still a really young guy. his life and career have been turned upside down. give them another couple of months before you start planning their funeral.
all is not lost. Flash annihilated the Kespa thing in MLG. Jaedong just won tonight. Effort is extraordinarily impressive in his play and game sense. none of the big names have quit yet, which speaks 1) to their unreal dedication and 2) to the fact that they haven't given up yet. the fans can't give up on them or else why are they even trying so hard to learn this new game at breakneck speed? sure a lot of it is probably for the money, but a lot of it is their fucking balls-to-the-walls pride. you can see it in the way they keep stepping up despite all the shit that's being thrown at them.
idk what point im making here. i'm fucking pumped, and you should be too, i guess is what im saying. no, thats not it either. if you don't like SC2 than you don't like SC2. no one should try to bully anyone into liking something they don't like. but if you love the players and love the teams, than just hang in there. they WILL get better. Flash will roflstomp MVP some day. I promise. it's gonna be painful for everyone until then, but hey, no pain no gain.
Starcraft needs more fans like this, fans who patiently wait for those they believe in, fans who still believe even when their heroes stop winning (whether or not it's the beginning of the end or if it's just a slump).
Bisu hasn't won an SC2 game yet in PL but I believe. I believe in his natural talent, I believe in his mechanics and I believe in his work ethic.
Flash hasn't dominated SC2 the way he has done so in BW but I believe in the bonjwa he is and the bonjwa he is meant to be even in what people (including me) say is a totally different game.
Despite these guys PL matches at the moment, I still believe. Despite Flash losing this, I still believe.
On June 24 2012 16:54 Ribbon wrote: Okay, hero[join] is just fucking bad at SC2.
as bad as Flash would you say?
Flash is playing greedy and blind.
Hero is just awful around the board.
I dont know if you know this or not.. But the current state of TvZ in ScToo is the Terran HAS to play greedy, because they cannot effectivly harass and/or contain Zerg ((because Queen range buff)).. and Terran playing greedy is succeptable to 2 base all ins from zerg, if the zerg doesnt decide to just out greed the Terran and win late game regardless.. What I am saying is the current state of TvZ in ScToo is if your Terran just GG out as soon as the game starts, because every second that passes by, your chances or winning reduce considerably.. ((better all-in with whatever forces you have and all of your scv's by the 10 min mark if you want to win))
Newsflash: Code S Zergs still die to MarineTankMedivac pushes when controlled properly. The only problem is that they have to siege on creep, but terrans start to explore different options, like Bio only (no siege) or Ravens (creep denial) in late-midgame. Give terrans a bit time, they'll come up with something.
Why can't you harass the Zerg because of the Queen buff? Your statement is just very wrong.
Because the 6 queen build can basically stop every all in or pressure. You can't do anything with hellions.
It's not really true. A standard medivac timing (like what Fantasy did recently) is still very effective. MKP has been using a new variant that is extremely strong. He did end up losing to Symbol with it recently, but that was partially due to his own miscontrol and Symbol playing safe.
Terrans are struggling, but it's mostly because traditional styles aren't working as well and zergs have more options overall now. If you really think terran can't win the matchup, just watch Fantasy's last TvZ for an example of nearly flawless and dominating play.
Ace is last, but with a closer differential than usual. I'm hoping they can climb up the ranks! Makes me giggle a bit to see SKT so low in the ranks, not cuz I dislike SKT or anything, just because they have the highest expectations I suppose. I do expect them to rise in the ranks, though.
Also, T8 fighting! I would love to see them make it to the finals.
Flash has lost a couple of games after practicing for a couple of months while also practicing Brood War for Proleague and preparing for the RO8. Calm the fuck down.
On June 25 2012 08:20 GolemMadness wrote: Flash has lost a couple of games after practicing for a couple of months while also practicing Brood War for Proleague and preparing for the RO8. Calm the fuck down.
On June 25 2012 08:20 GolemMadness wrote: Flash has lost a couple of games after practicing for a couple of months while also practicing Brood War for Proleague and preparing for the RO8. Calm the fuck down.
And yet your name suggest otherwise.
My name suggests otherwise from what? What are you talking about?
On June 25 2012 08:20 GolemMadness wrote: Flash has lost a couple of games after practicing for a couple of months while also practicing Brood War for Proleague and preparing for the RO8. Calm the fuck down.
And yet your name suggest otherwise.
My name suggests otherwise from what? What are you talking about?
On June 25 2012 07:01 silent_owl wrote: Didn't get to see this but nice to see Effort winning but sad to find out Flash lost in SC2. Call me old-fashioned but if this transfer is gonna happen, I'd rather that it result in SC2 have a little stability in terms of who's generally winning and what-not. May a real definite bonjwa rise. May Flash (or Effort or Bisu or JD) start winning practically everything.
Effort already IS winning everything. Take a look at his proleague stats for this season.
I feel the need to point out that there are some really ignorant comments here. Flash DID scout EffOrt again after his initial scout and verified no gas. EffOrt immediately threw down two gasses after that scout left and went for the all-in. Flash then moved out with 6 hellions to be active on the map and ran into the roaches as his first indication of the attack, which was quite a surprise. EffOrt tricked Flash, it wasn't as simple as Flash playing badly or greedy, he probably expected 3 hatch, then when he moved out with his hellions the first time, EffOrt drew away his attention with his speedlings which helped even more.
It's sad that people who don't understand the game oversimplify it when they would probably go crazy over the same exact situation in BW when they understand it. Yeah, it's an all-in, but it was still a good game with thought in it. These guys are damn good and they deserve some respect.
i actually expect flash to fail in a similar fashion in sc2 for a year; probably more since the game isn't even "done" yet
a lot of people who haven't followed flash from the beginning seem to think that he came out of nowhere to attain godhood flash is an incredibly stubborn player who will do the same thing over and over again regardless of how predictable he becomes and/or how many times he loses as a result
EPT![[image loading]](http://www.teamliquid.net/staff/Milkis/PLWriteup05/scandalousnew.jpg)
2011-2012 Proleague Season 2![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/1JFCq.png)
vs ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/EBina.png)
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