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[SPL] Grand Final: SK Telecom T1 vs KT Rolster - Page 360

Forum Index > Brood War Tournaments
Post a Reply
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MountainDewJunkie
Profile Blog Joined June 2009
United States10346 Posts
April 09 2012 03:13 GMT
#7181
I mean, look, KT could have rolled the dice and sent out CH (best record as zerg this season) or the red-hot Hoejja, but really, the backlash would have been too much to bear. If your entire season is riding on one game, map or not, wouldn't you send your best player? If you hesitate, then ask yourself, would send not just your best player, but the best player in the game? Flash had two opportunities to defend his post as The Terminator and failed. You feel bad for the guy, you really do. But you can't blame KT tosses, because on the other hand KT zergs swept. What did you expect? For KT to win every game? Of course not. This shoulda woulda coulda is a waste, what happened happened. But if you can't shake that, you can look at it from the other side. You could argue that SKT should have closed out soon enough and not even let it get to Ace. I mean, losing to Action and Hoejja? Ssak losing in his so-called specialty matchup? Best getting bullied even though he had the best PvZ record this season? See? You can pick apart anything.
[21:07] <Shock710> whats wrong with her face [20:50] <dAPhREAk> i beat it the day after it came out | <BLinD-RawR> esports is a giant vagina
malady
Profile Joined November 2010
United States600 Posts
April 09 2012 03:17 GMT
#7182
wow I started tearing up at the end


GO BISU!
dumchu
lequinow
Profile Joined November 2010
Canada17 Posts
April 09 2012 03:29 GMT
#7183
What I remind of the live report of the Final Fantasy:

KT fans:
Oh god, Flash is playing so bad.
Everyone else:
Fanta is going god mode!

(Suddenly, Fantasy lose a bunch of tanks in a bad push.)

KT fans:
Epic deffense from Flash!
Everyone else:
Well, that wasn't a very good push...

Those fanboys, we love them
I really like Flash, but Fantasy outplayed him on every level.
Slow Motion
Profile Blog Joined July 2009
United States6960 Posts
April 09 2012 03:33 GMT
#7184
I was watching VODs and my heart was still pounding. Then I read through this entire thread to re-experience the epicness. I love you Broodwar and TL.
mOojc
Profile Joined September 2009
Australia460 Posts
April 09 2012 03:41 GMT
#7185
O god rewatching that montage makes me want to CRY! Long live Brood War! =(
Starburst
Profile Joined November 2011
United States108 Posts
April 09 2012 03:42 GMT
#7186
Kiett, show us more Fomos pictures/post the link to 'em. I'm looking for a new background. ;O
Lightwip
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States5497 Posts
April 09 2012 03:43 GMT
#7187
I'm glad that if this is the end, at least Brood War has a happy ending. The hero Bisu takes down the villain Flash to acchieve true victory.
If you are not Bisu, chances are I hate you.
Skeny
Profile Joined March 2008
Australia121 Posts
April 09 2012 03:46 GMT
#7188
Holy shit. I couldn't watch the games live and I just watched the final game even though it had been spoiled for me.

Even so, half way through the match I was SURE i misread the spoiler. I cannot believe Bisu won...! So exciting!
<3 poopfeast420
wussleeQ
Profile Blog Joined June 2009
United States3130 Posts
April 09 2012 03:50 GMT
#7189
fuck. i fell asleep at 2-2 T_T
BW -> League -> CSGO
shaftofpleasure
Profile Blog Joined December 2011
Korea (North)1375 Posts
April 09 2012 04:02 GMT
#7190
On April 09 2012 12:13 MountainDewJunkie wrote:
I mean, look, KT could have rolled the dice and sent out CH (best record as zerg this season) or the red-hot Hoejja, but really, the backlash would have been too much to bear. If your entire season is riding on one game, map or not, wouldn't you send your best player? If you hesitate, then ask yourself, would send not just your best player, but the best player in the game? Flash had two opportunities to defend his post as The Terminator and failed. You feel bad for the guy, you really do. But you can't blame KT tosses, because on the other hand KT zergs swept. What did you expect? For KT to win every game? Of course not. This shoulda woulda coulda is a waste, what happened happened. But if you can't shake that, you can look at it from the other side. You could argue that SKT should have closed out soon enough and not even let it get to Ace. I mean, losing to Action and Hoejja? Ssak losing in his so-called specialty matchup? Best getting bullied even though he had the best PvZ record this season? See? You can pick apart anything.


How many teams do you root for anyway? I see you juggle STX and T1. lol
It's either the holes of my nose are getting smaller or my fingers are getting bigger. /// Always Rooting for the Underdog. Hyuk/Sin/Jaehoon/Juni/Hyvva/Hoejja/Canata //// Hiding in thread somewhere where BW is still in it's pure form here on TL.
eviltomahawk
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States11135 Posts
April 09 2012 04:09 GMT
#7191
On April 09 2012 12:50 wussleeQ wrote:
fuck. i fell asleep at 2-2 T_T

Me too! High five through the internet!

I stayed up all night. The sun was rising. I decided to watch from my bed, which turned out to be an unwise idea, since I missed the first half of game 5 and woke up to Stats losing his natural. Then I passed out again during the commercials before game 6.

But the vods were pretty good.
ㅇㅅㅌㅅ
MountainDewJunkie
Profile Blog Joined June 2009
United States10346 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-04-09 04:22:39
April 09 2012 04:21 GMT
#7192
On April 09 2012 13:02 shaftofpleasure wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 09 2012 12:13 MountainDewJunkie wrote:
I mean, look, KT could have rolled the dice and sent out CH (best record as zerg this season) or the red-hot Hoejja, but really, the backlash would have been too much to bear. If your entire season is riding on one game, map or not, wouldn't you send your best player? If you hesitate, then ask yourself, would send not just your best player, but the best player in the game? Flash had two opportunities to defend his post as The Terminator and failed. You feel bad for the guy, you really do. But you can't blame KT tosses, because on the other hand KT zergs swept. What did you expect? For KT to win every game? Of course not. This shoulda woulda coulda is a waste, what happened happened. But if you can't shake that, you can look at it from the other side. You could argue that SKT should have closed out soon enough and not even let it get to Ace. I mean, losing to Action and Hoejja? Ssak losing in his so-called specialty matchup? Best getting bullied even though he had the best PvZ record this season? See? You can pick apart anything.


How many teams do you root for anyway? I see you juggle STX and T1. lol

Since you're new, you'll see my entire history on TL is riddled with respectful dislike of SKT (and general dislike of Stork, though I always admit that he's a damn good player).

EDIT: less dislike for Stork than say 4 years ago, I caught myself rooting for him in KAS2, where he fucked up twice making just one cannon vs JD holy shit, how you can be one of TBLS and pull that shit twice in the same series, sorry, I can't stop myself
[21:07] <Shock710> whats wrong with her face [20:50] <dAPhREAk> i beat it the day after it came out | <BLinD-RawR> esports is a giant vagina
L_Master
Profile Blog Joined April 2009
United States8017 Posts
April 09 2012 04:21 GMT
#7193
On April 09 2012 11:30 Dakkas wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 09 2012 11:22 thanhbao86 wrote:
On April 09 2012 11:07 Dakkas wrote:
On April 09 2012 11:00 Release wrote:
On April 09 2012 10:55 Xiphos wrote:
On April 09 2012 10:43 catabowl wrote:
You know, when players ATTACK Flash early and cause him to get "thrown" off his timing... he has lost.

I still remember the Epic Ever OSL when Movie had an advantage in every game but instead of pressing... he teched up to Arbiters giving Flash freedom to clear his head and mount his army.

I'm not saying this is the way to beat Flash... but to throw his timing off and his mind off a bit every once and awhile is not a bad idea.


Remember, Bisu did this in the Winners League Final too (early aggression with zlots) and he beat Flash that time as well. Just saying!


You can't give him time to recuperate. When you keep him busy, that's his mechanical side you are dealing with. But when the aggression cease, you are confronting with him on a strategical level. In terms of tactical decisions, Flash might be very well the best of the all of Bisu, Jaedong, Stork, and Fantasy. However, in the micromanagement category, he falls behind by a very slight margin. As long as you are able to keep him on the toes and take him in a straight up struggle while continuing to dent on his armor, eventually it will get punctured.

No one can create a siege line as good as he can.
No one can use MnM against mutas as well as he can.
No one can use MnM against lurkers as well as he can.
The list goes on.

Flash's main problem is that he relies to heavily on scouting. Bisu denied flash scouting very well, and flash kept pushing out with insufficient Marine SCV forces.


That's because there aren't any terran players with micro as good as him. It's commonly accepted that Jaedong and Bisu overtake him in terms of micro, granted it's a paper-thin difference however it's a difference nonetheless. Flash is not the best at everything

I have to disagree with this. When you talk about micro there are different types. For example, vulture micro Fantasy probably the best, but MM I think Flash is better. Flash doesnt play zerg so who knows how good his muta control compared to JD, sair/dt micro (Bisu) or carriers/arbiter (Stork) or storms(jangbi). All of those micros are different so it is hard to say who is actually better. "It's commonly accepted that Jaedong and Bisu overtake him in terms of micro" this is just not true at all. I think you are the only one that accepts that. I do agree completely that you have to throw Flash off his game to increase your chance of winning and even in that case it is still really small. Ofc Flash is not the best at everything. His macro may not even as good as Best but then again they play different races so it is hard to say.


I mixed up APM and micro, though they do have areas that are similar. Jaedong and Bisu have higher apm is what I should have said


Actually Bisu's APM is not that insanely high. In the 30-40 reps I've gathered of him he averaged 317. Fast but not insane mode (JD is usually higher 300's, occasionally over 400).

Where Bisu's insane mechanics and multitask come from is his incredibly high efficiency. Bisu has very, very low spam. Often under 25%, sometimes lower. So even with less APM he is doing more, far more, than most other players with similar APM. If you watch his FPVoDs you'll also see he is extremely precise and very accurate with his mouse clicks and also has zero wasted motion. It's like the epitome of smooth/clean play (from the mechanical side anyway).

His speed
EffOrt and Soulkey Hwaiting!
Chimpalimp
Profile Joined May 2010
United States1135 Posts
April 09 2012 04:26 GMT
#7194
I sadly fell asleep right as 5:00 in the morning rolled around. Sunday night I managed to get some time to watch the finals, and it was rather epic. A hell of a finals, definitely not a lackluster ending.

Bisu fanboy or not, Bisu played outstanding in every way during the finals. He controlled the pace of the game both against Wooki and Flash. His decision making, his multitask, and his superb game sense really showed why he was the MVP. And the hero probe, oh the hero probe... After seeing the proxy gate, I was on my feet and tense as hell, it was just amazing.

Hooray for SKT, and what a fitting end to a good season.
I like money. You like money too? We should hang out.
Mindcrime
Profile Joined July 2004
United States6899 Posts
April 09 2012 04:27 GMT
#7195
On April 09 2012 12:43 Lightwip wrote:
I'm glad that if this is the end, at least Brood War has a happy ending. The hero Bisu takes down the villain Flash to acchieve true victory.


Trying to ignore the OSL eh?

That wasn't any act of God. That was an act of pure human fuckery.
DMXD
Profile Joined February 2008
United States4064 Posts
April 09 2012 04:38 GMT
#7196
Since we are on the topic of bisu's apm usage and efficiency, here is a fpvod of bisu vs Jaedong classic game
+ Show Spoiler +


I watch the ace match like 3 times already the early mirco battles...so good..>_<
Dante08
Profile Blog Joined February 2008
Singapore4148 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-04-09 04:51:54
April 09 2012 04:49 GMT
#7197
On April 09 2012 11:25 Skwid1g wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 09 2012 11:22 thanhbao86 wrote:
On April 09 2012 11:07 Dakkas wrote:
On April 09 2012 11:00 Release wrote:
On April 09 2012 10:55 Xiphos wrote:
On April 09 2012 10:43 catabowl wrote:
You know, when players ATTACK Flash early and cause him to get "thrown" off his timing... he has lost.

I still remember the Epic Ever OSL when Movie had an advantage in every game but instead of pressing... he teched up to Arbiters giving Flash freedom to clear his head and mount his army.

I'm not saying this is the way to beat Flash... but to throw his timing off and his mind off a bit every once and awhile is not a bad idea.


Remember, Bisu did this in the Winners League Final too (early aggression with zlots) and he beat Flash that time as well. Just saying!


You can't give him time to recuperate. When you keep him busy, that's his mechanical side you are dealing with. But when the aggression cease, you are confronting with him on a strategical level. In terms of tactical decisions, Flash might be very well the best of the all of Bisu, Jaedong, Stork, and Fantasy. However, in the micromanagement category, he falls behind by a very slight margin. As long as you are able to keep him on the toes and take him in a straight up struggle while continuing to dent on his armor, eventually it will get punctured.

No one can create a siege line as good as he can.
No one can use MnM against mutas as well as he can.
No one can use MnM against lurkers as well as he can.
The list goes on.

Flash's main problem is that he relies to heavily on scouting. Bisu denied flash scouting very well, and flash kept pushing out with insufficient Marine SCV forces.


That's because there aren't any terran players with micro as good as him. It's commonly accepted that Jaedong and Bisu overtake him in terms of micro, granted it's a paper-thin difference however it's a difference nonetheless. Flash is not the best at everything

I have to disagree with this. When you talk about micro there are different types. For example, vulture micro Fantasy probably the best, but MM I think Flash is better. Flash doesnt play zerg so who knows how good his muta control compared to JD, sair/dt micro (Bisu) or carriers/arbiter (Stork) or storms(jangbi). All of those micros are different so it is hard to say who is actually better. "It's commonly accepted that Jaedong and Bisu overtake him in terms of micro" this is just not true at all. I think you are the only one that accepts that.


It's not micro that he gets overtaken in, Bisu's multi-task, when he's on point like today, is what he has over Flash. I'm not even a fan of Bisu but there are times when his multi-tasking is literally inhuman.


Yeah I've seen his fpvods lol sick
Kiett
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
United States7639 Posts
April 09 2012 04:50 GMT
#7198
I'm still kind of thrown by how much Bisu's brother looks like the perfect fusion between himself and Perfectman o_o

[image loading]
Writer:o
Lightwip
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States5497 Posts
April 09 2012 04:50 GMT
#7199
On April 09 2012 13:27 Mindcrime wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 09 2012 12:43 Lightwip wrote:
I'm glad that if this is the end, at least Brood War has a happy ending. The hero Bisu takes down the villain Flash to acchieve true victory.


Trying to ignore the OSL eh?


I already accepted terran scum victory in that as a foregone conclusion. See my thread on the topic.
But PL finals is more important. A Bisu > Flash to end BW is a victory for justice.
If you are not Bisu, chances are I hate you.
erin[go]bragh
Profile Joined December 2008
United States815 Posts
April 09 2012 05:03 GMT
#7200
I managed to avoid spoiling myself and just watched all the vods back to back!

Absolutely amazing series. I can't think of a better way a final could have been played out. So mad I couldn't watch it live.

Seeing Hoejja win was awesome, I remember becoming a fan of his after watching his very first PL appearance. He disappeared for a while after that, but I always knew he'd be back. So happy to see him doing so well!

But I really have to comment on something that seriously bothered me reading through the LR thread. I understand it can be sad or frustrating when your favorite player loses, but some of the things I've read in this thread are down right childish. I've never loved a BW player as much as I loved JulyZerg, but I've never felt hate towards anyone that ever beat him. In fact, some of my favorite games from him happen to actually be losses, just because of awesome tactics or play that is involved. And its usually a safe bet that in order to beat a great player, you have to play a great game.

What I'm trying to say is, everyone has their heros, but you should be loyal to BW above all else. Now more than ever, we should all be relishing in these amazing games. This final played out absolutely beautifully. To see people say crap like they want BW to die just because their favorite player lost? It boils my blood. If you're enjoyment of Brood War hinges on the performance of a single person or team to the point where you cant just sit back and enjoy a good game, or at the very least not shit all over everyone else, you should really reexamine why you watch this game in the first place.

And honestly, if Flash losing is enough to make you wish for an end to BW, even if its the heat of the moment, then you can feel free to get the fuck away from our Brood War and never come back.

+ Show Spoiler +
I'm not saying everyone should hold hands and I'm not asking KT fans to be jumping for joy that they lost, but the line needs to be drawn somewhere. Reading "i hope bw dies now" from supposed long time BW fans just honestly shocked and angered me.
JulyZerg! by.hero, effOrt, KTY.
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