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On April 09 2012 10:55 Xiphos wrote:Show nested quote +On April 09 2012 10:43 catabowl wrote:
You know, when players ATTACK Flash early and cause him to get "thrown" off his timing... he has lost.
I still remember the Epic Ever OSL when Movie had an advantage in every game but instead of pressing... he teched up to Arbiters giving Flash freedom to clear his head and mount his army.
I'm not saying this is the way to beat Flash... but to throw his timing off and his mind off a bit every once and awhile is not a bad idea.
Remember, Bisu did this in the Winners League Final too (early aggression with zlots) and he beat Flash that time as well. Just saying! You can't give him time to recuperate. When you keep him busy, that's his mechanical side you are dealing with. But when the aggression cease, you are confronting with him on a strategical level. In terms of tactical decisions, Flash might be very well the best of the all of Bisu, Jaedong, Stork, and Fantasy. However, in the micromanagement category, he falls behind by a very slight margin. As long as you are able to keep him on the toes and take him in a straight up struggle while continuing to dent on his armor, eventually it will get punctured.
Exactly. I went back and watched some old OSL games where Flash steamrolled. Very little early aggression against him... The games he lost... there was some early aggression. Cannot wait to see how he reacts in the OSL.
I hope they can bring back BW for at least one more season.
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On April 09 2012 10:55 Xiphos wrote:Show nested quote +On April 09 2012 10:43 catabowl wrote:
You know, when players ATTACK Flash early and cause him to get "thrown" off his timing... he has lost.
I still remember the Epic Ever OSL when Movie had an advantage in every game but instead of pressing... he teched up to Arbiters giving Flash freedom to clear his head and mount his army.
I'm not saying this is the way to beat Flash... but to throw his timing off and his mind off a bit every once and awhile is not a bad idea.
Remember, Bisu did this in the Winners League Final too (early aggression with zlots) and he beat Flash that time as well. Just saying! You can't give him time to recuperate. When you keep him busy, that's his mechanical side you are dealing with. But when the aggression cease, you are confronting with him on a strategical level. In terms of tactical decisions, Flash might be very well the best of the all of Bisu, Jaedong, Stork, and Fantasy. However, in the micromanagement category, he falls behind by a very slight margin. As long as you are able to keep him on the toes and take him in a straight up struggle while continuing to dent on his armor, eventually it will get punctured.
No one can create a siege line as good as he can.
No one can use MnM against mutas as well as he can.
No one can use MnM against lurkers as well as he can.
The list goes on.
Flash's main problem is that he relies to heavily on scouting. Bisu denied flash scouting very well, and flash kept pushing out with insufficient Marine SCV forces.
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man what a time for flash to lose twice TT
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On April 09 2012 11:00 Release wrote:Show nested quote +On April 09 2012 10:55 Xiphos wrote:On April 09 2012 10:43 catabowl wrote:
You know, when players ATTACK Flash early and cause him to get "thrown" off his timing... he has lost.
I still remember the Epic Ever OSL when Movie had an advantage in every game but instead of pressing... he teched up to Arbiters giving Flash freedom to clear his head and mount his army.
I'm not saying this is the way to beat Flash... but to throw his timing off and his mind off a bit every once and awhile is not a bad idea.
Remember, Bisu did this in the Winners League Final too (early aggression with zlots) and he beat Flash that time as well. Just saying! You can't give him time to recuperate. When you keep him busy, that's his mechanical side you are dealing with. But when the aggression cease, you are confronting with him on a strategical level. In terms of tactical decisions, Flash might be very well the best of the all of Bisu, Jaedong, Stork, and Fantasy. However, in the micromanagement category, he falls behind by a very slight margin. As long as you are able to keep him on the toes and take him in a straight up struggle while continuing to dent on his armor, eventually it will get punctured. No one can create a siege line as good as he can. No one can use MnM against mutas as well as he can. No one can use MnM against lurkers as well as he can. The list goes on. Flash's main problem is that he relies to heavily on scouting. Bisu denied flash scouting very well, and flash kept pushing out with insufficient Marine SCV forces.
That's because there aren't any terran players with micro as good as him. It's commonly accepted that Jaedong and Bisu overtake him in terms of micro, granted it's a paper-thin difference however it's a difference nonetheless. Flash is not the best at everything
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Pretty sick finals. KTZerg are insane. Game 7 was great. Hoejja using queens is awesome.
Nicely played series by SKT
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If anyone is interested here is the full 5 hour VOD with nothing cut out so you can see the ending ceremony + montage + pre game stuff.
http://www.twitch.tv/ensignn7/b/314326683
first game starts about 49 minutes in. Ending montage at about 5 hours 3 minutes
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Brazil37 Posts
On April 09 2012 10:22 Lebesgue wrote:
Damn, I thought Bisu was fucked after Flash sieged the cliff. Can't believe that Flash lost it... Damn zealots are unstoppable without mines.
Sad sad day. First my date cancels on me again and then I find out that KT lost with Flash losing both of his game...
At least there are much more women in world right. Much more than Proleague finals... So you can redeem part of your sad day in the next ones.
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On April 09 2012 11:07 Dakkas wrote:Show nested quote +On April 09 2012 11:00 Release wrote:On April 09 2012 10:55 Xiphos wrote:On April 09 2012 10:43 catabowl wrote:
You know, when players ATTACK Flash early and cause him to get "thrown" off his timing... he has lost.
I still remember the Epic Ever OSL when Movie had an advantage in every game but instead of pressing... he teched up to Arbiters giving Flash freedom to clear his head and mount his army.
I'm not saying this is the way to beat Flash... but to throw his timing off and his mind off a bit every once and awhile is not a bad idea.
Remember, Bisu did this in the Winners League Final too (early aggression with zlots) and he beat Flash that time as well. Just saying! You can't give him time to recuperate. When you keep him busy, that's his mechanical side you are dealing with. But when the aggression cease, you are confronting with him on a strategical level. In terms of tactical decisions, Flash might be very well the best of the all of Bisu, Jaedong, Stork, and Fantasy. However, in the micromanagement category, he falls behind by a very slight margin. As long as you are able to keep him on the toes and take him in a straight up struggle while continuing to dent on his armor, eventually it will get punctured. No one can create a siege line as good as he can. No one can use MnM against mutas as well as he can. No one can use MnM against lurkers as well as he can. The list goes on. Flash's main problem is that he relies to heavily on scouting. Bisu denied flash scouting very well, and flash kept pushing out with insufficient Marine SCV forces. That's because there aren't any terran players with micro as good as him. It's commonly accepted that Jaedong and Bisu overtake him in terms of micro, granted it's a paper-thin difference however it's a difference nonetheless. Flash is not the best at everything
I have to disagree with this. When you talk about micro there are different types. For example, vulture micro Fantasy probably the best, but MM I think Flash is better. Flash doesnt play zerg so who knows how good his muta control compared to JD, sair/dt micro (Bisu) or carriers/arbiter (Stork) or storms(jangbi). All of those micros are different so it is hard to say who is actually better. "It's commonly accepted that Jaedong and Bisu overtake him in terms of micro" this is just not true at all. I think you are the only one that accepts that. I do agree completely that you have to throw Flash off his game to increase your chance of winning and even in that case it is still really small. Ofc Flash is not the best at everything. His macro may not even as good as Best but then again they play different races so it is hard to say.
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On April 09 2012 11:22 thanhbao86 wrote:Show nested quote +On April 09 2012 11:07 Dakkas wrote:On April 09 2012 11:00 Release wrote:On April 09 2012 10:55 Xiphos wrote:On April 09 2012 10:43 catabowl wrote:
You know, when players ATTACK Flash early and cause him to get "thrown" off his timing... he has lost.
I still remember the Epic Ever OSL when Movie had an advantage in every game but instead of pressing... he teched up to Arbiters giving Flash freedom to clear his head and mount his army.
I'm not saying this is the way to beat Flash... but to throw his timing off and his mind off a bit every once and awhile is not a bad idea.
Remember, Bisu did this in the Winners League Final too (early aggression with zlots) and he beat Flash that time as well. Just saying! You can't give him time to recuperate. When you keep him busy, that's his mechanical side you are dealing with. But when the aggression cease, you are confronting with him on a strategical level. In terms of tactical decisions, Flash might be very well the best of the all of Bisu, Jaedong, Stork, and Fantasy. However, in the micromanagement category, he falls behind by a very slight margin. As long as you are able to keep him on the toes and take him in a straight up struggle while continuing to dent on his armor, eventually it will get punctured. No one can create a siege line as good as he can. No one can use MnM against mutas as well as he can. No one can use MnM against lurkers as well as he can. The list goes on. Flash's main problem is that he relies to heavily on scouting. Bisu denied flash scouting very well, and flash kept pushing out with insufficient Marine SCV forces. That's because there aren't any terran players with micro as good as him. It's commonly accepted that Jaedong and Bisu overtake him in terms of micro, granted it's a paper-thin difference however it's a difference nonetheless. Flash is not the best at everything I have to disagree with this. When you talk about micro there are different types. For example, vulture micro Fantasy probably the best, but MM I think Flash is better. Flash doesnt play zerg so who knows how good his muta control compared to JD, sair/dt micro (Bisu) or carriers/arbiter (Stork) or storms(jangbi). All of those micros are different so it is hard to say who is actually better. "It's commonly accepted that Jaedong and Bisu overtake him in terms of micro" this is just not true at all. I think you are the only one that accepts that.
It's not micro that he gets overtaken in, Bisu's multi-task, when he's on point like today, is what he has over Flash. I'm not even a fan of Bisu but there are times when his multi-tasking is literally inhuman.
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GG SKT1
WP..
See you next season.
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On April 09 2012 11:25 Skwid1g wrote:Show nested quote +On April 09 2012 11:22 thanhbao86 wrote:On April 09 2012 11:07 Dakkas wrote:On April 09 2012 11:00 Release wrote:On April 09 2012 10:55 Xiphos wrote:On April 09 2012 10:43 catabowl wrote:
You know, when players ATTACK Flash early and cause him to get "thrown" off his timing... he has lost.
I still remember the Epic Ever OSL when Movie had an advantage in every game but instead of pressing... he teched up to Arbiters giving Flash freedom to clear his head and mount his army.
I'm not saying this is the way to beat Flash... but to throw his timing off and his mind off a bit every once and awhile is not a bad idea.
Remember, Bisu did this in the Winners League Final too (early aggression with zlots) and he beat Flash that time as well. Just saying! You can't give him time to recuperate. When you keep him busy, that's his mechanical side you are dealing with. But when the aggression cease, you are confronting with him on a strategical level. In terms of tactical decisions, Flash might be very well the best of the all of Bisu, Jaedong, Stork, and Fantasy. However, in the micromanagement category, he falls behind by a very slight margin. As long as you are able to keep him on the toes and take him in a straight up struggle while continuing to dent on his armor, eventually it will get punctured. No one can create a siege line as good as he can. No one can use MnM against mutas as well as he can. No one can use MnM against lurkers as well as he can. The list goes on. Flash's main problem is that he relies to heavily on scouting. Bisu denied flash scouting very well, and flash kept pushing out with insufficient Marine SCV forces. That's because there aren't any terran players with micro as good as him. It's commonly accepted that Jaedong and Bisu overtake him in terms of micro, granted it's a paper-thin difference however it's a difference nonetheless. Flash is not the best at everything I have to disagree with this. When you talk about micro there are different types. For example, vulture micro Fantasy probably the best, but MM I think Flash is better. Flash doesnt play zerg so who knows how good his muta control compared to JD, sair/dt micro (Bisu) or carriers/arbiter (Stork) or storms(jangbi). All of those micros are different so it is hard to say who is actually better. "It's commonly accepted that Jaedong and Bisu overtake him in terms of micro" this is just not true at all. I think you are the only one that accepts that. It's not micro that he gets overtaken in, Bisu's multi-task, when he's on point like today, is what he has over Flash. I'm not even a fan of Bisu but there are times when his multi-tasking is literally inhuman.
Totally agree with this. Bisu multitasking is famous with his super high APM. FPVOD of Bisu is crazily fast as he stops on each screen like only 1 second and still able to complete all the tasks he needs to do.
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On April 09 2012 11:22 thanhbao86 wrote:Show nested quote +On April 09 2012 11:07 Dakkas wrote:On April 09 2012 11:00 Release wrote:On April 09 2012 10:55 Xiphos wrote:On April 09 2012 10:43 catabowl wrote:
You know, when players ATTACK Flash early and cause him to get "thrown" off his timing... he has lost.
I still remember the Epic Ever OSL when Movie had an advantage in every game but instead of pressing... he teched up to Arbiters giving Flash freedom to clear his head and mount his army.
I'm not saying this is the way to beat Flash... but to throw his timing off and his mind off a bit every once and awhile is not a bad idea.
Remember, Bisu did this in the Winners League Final too (early aggression with zlots) and he beat Flash that time as well. Just saying! You can't give him time to recuperate. When you keep him busy, that's his mechanical side you are dealing with. But when the aggression cease, you are confronting with him on a strategical level. In terms of tactical decisions, Flash might be very well the best of the all of Bisu, Jaedong, Stork, and Fantasy. However, in the micromanagement category, he falls behind by a very slight margin. As long as you are able to keep him on the toes and take him in a straight up struggle while continuing to dent on his armor, eventually it will get punctured. No one can create a siege line as good as he can. No one can use MnM against mutas as well as he can. No one can use MnM against lurkers as well as he can. The list goes on. Flash's main problem is that he relies to heavily on scouting. Bisu denied flash scouting very well, and flash kept pushing out with insufficient Marine SCV forces. That's because there aren't any terran players with micro as good as him. It's commonly accepted that Jaedong and Bisu overtake him in terms of micro, granted it's a paper-thin difference however it's a difference nonetheless. Flash is not the best at everything I have to disagree with this. When you talk about micro there are different types. For example, vulture micro Fantasy probably the best, but MM I think Flash is better. Flash doesnt play zerg so who knows how good his muta control compared to JD, sair/dt micro (Bisu) or carriers/arbiter (Stork) or storms(jangbi). All of those micros are different so it is hard to say who is actually better. "It's commonly accepted that Jaedong and Bisu overtake him in terms of micro" this is just not true at all. I think you are the only one that accepts that. I do agree completely that you have to throw Flash off his game to increase your chance of winning and even in that case it is still really small. Ofc Flash is not the best at everything. His macro may not even as good as Best but then again they play different races so it is hard to say.
I mixed up APM and micro, though they do have areas that are similar. Jaedong and Bisu have higher apm is what I should have said
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Wow...I can't believe Flash lost twice... Was really hoping KT would win.
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Bisu's multi-tasking is definitely his greatest strength. If you talk about Bisu, I think the multi-tasking has to be on top of his greatest strength list. He was ALL over Flash, I don't think Flash was really expecting Bisu to be that aggressive.
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On April 09 2012 11:30 Dakkas wrote:Show nested quote +On April 09 2012 11:22 thanhbao86 wrote:On April 09 2012 11:07 Dakkas wrote:On April 09 2012 11:00 Release wrote:On April 09 2012 10:55 Xiphos wrote:On April 09 2012 10:43 catabowl wrote:
You know, when players ATTACK Flash early and cause him to get "thrown" off his timing... he has lost.
I still remember the Epic Ever OSL when Movie had an advantage in every game but instead of pressing... he teched up to Arbiters giving Flash freedom to clear his head and mount his army.
I'm not saying this is the way to beat Flash... but to throw his timing off and his mind off a bit every once and awhile is not a bad idea.
Remember, Bisu did this in the Winners League Final too (early aggression with zlots) and he beat Flash that time as well. Just saying! You can't give him time to recuperate. When you keep him busy, that's his mechanical side you are dealing with. But when the aggression cease, you are confronting with him on a strategical level. In terms of tactical decisions, Flash might be very well the best of the all of Bisu, Jaedong, Stork, and Fantasy. However, in the micromanagement category, he falls behind by a very slight margin. As long as you are able to keep him on the toes and take him in a straight up struggle while continuing to dent on his armor, eventually it will get punctured. No one can create a siege line as good as he can. No one can use MnM against mutas as well as he can. No one can use MnM against lurkers as well as he can. The list goes on. Flash's main problem is that he relies to heavily on scouting. Bisu denied flash scouting very well, and flash kept pushing out with insufficient Marine SCV forces. That's because there aren't any terran players with micro as good as him. It's commonly accepted that Jaedong and Bisu overtake him in terms of micro, granted it's a paper-thin difference however it's a difference nonetheless. Flash is not the best at everything I have to disagree with this. When you talk about micro there are different types. For example, vulture micro Fantasy probably the best, but MM I think Flash is better. Flash doesnt play zerg so who knows how good his muta control compared to JD, sair/dt micro (Bisu) or carriers/arbiter (Stork) or storms(jangbi). All of those micros are different so it is hard to say who is actually better. "It's commonly accepted that Jaedong and Bisu overtake him in terms of micro" this is just not true at all. I think you are the only one that accepts that. I do agree completely that you have to throw Flash off his game to increase your chance of winning and even in that case it is still really small. Ofc Flash is not the best at everything. His macro may not even as good as Best but then again they play different races so it is hard to say. I mixed up APM and micro, though they do have areas that are similar. Jaedong and Bisu have higher apm is what I should have said
True that, higher APM allows you to multitask better. Someone here already stated that the reason Bisu was able to win. Yah you are completely right about the APM/multitasking skill.
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2155 Posts
Did the montage get uploaded yet? I missed it first time around
edit - nvm, post with a link to it on this page
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So he's human after all? 
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United States7639 Posts
LOL this is so cute
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/pkTHw.jpg)
I love this team ;u; ♥
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Fuck y Skt1, just caught up on the Vods. So many sick, sick games. Fantasy still most clutch player in the history of PL Grand Finals. Undefeated all-day every day baby. SKT1 Fighting Forever! Also Lulz at the LR from Ace Match
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Game 7 was epic, thrilling and super intense from start to finish, but what I don't understand is why progamers insist on NOT walling off. Had Flash walled off his reverse ramp at the start of the game he wouldn't have had to deal with that early zealot aggression. I'm not sure if it's possible to wall of your natural, but it certainly would helped if had placed some structures there.
Well, a great final overall. BW is still damn strong.
EDIT: And I really hope Flash won't slump due to his losses today. =/
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EPT
