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On July 22 2011 22:03 Gescom wrote:
Everyone make sure to let Bisu know how you feel about PvZ on your way. Don't be mad Jangbi played like a butt.
i am mad for Jangbi playing bad, that's not resist anyone to find alternative answers. Thats why terrans and Zergs are evolving and protoss stay in their conservative world like it was still protoss dragons era.
Likely they still believe that corsairs and storms are the only possible option to beat Zerg.
But hell, its pros problem, not mine 
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Sad to see no protoss in the ro8. Here is to hoping some terran can save us from another horrible ZvZ finals.
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How does it look in Group D now that Modesty won?
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On July 22 2011 22:09 hitthat wrote:Show nested quote +On July 22 2011 22:03 Gescom wrote:
Everyone make sure to let Bisu know how you feel about PvZ on your way. Don't be mad Jangbi played like a butt. i am mad for Jangbi playing bad, that's not resist anyone to find alternative answers. Thats why terrans and Zergs are evolving and protoss stay in their conservative world like it was still protoss dragons era. Likely they still believe that corsairs and storms are the only possible option to beat Zerg. But hell, its pros problem, not mine
exactly my thoughts
Protoss WAY too conservative.
tt
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On July 22 2011 22:11 Dandy4 wrote:
How does it look in Group D now that Modesty won?
Modesty winning was ideal for Jaedong. If Jaedong loses to hyvaa, there's still a chance for tiebreakers if Hyuk beats Modesty. Tiebreaker will be between Hyuk, Modesty, JD.
If Jaedong wins against hyvaa and Modesty beats Hyuk, there's going to be a three way tiebreak between Hyuk, Modesty, JD.
If JD loses and Hyuk loses against Modesty, it's over for JD.
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Canada2480 Posts
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On July 22 2011 22:11 Sinedd wrote:Show nested quote +On July 22 2011 22:09 hitthat wrote:On July 22 2011 22:03 Gescom wrote:
Everyone make sure to let Bisu know how you feel about PvZ on your way. Don't be mad Jangbi played like a butt. i am mad for Jangbi playing bad, that's not resist anyone to find alternative answers. Thats why terrans and Zergs are evolving and protoss stay in their conservative world like it was still protoss dragons era. Likely they still believe that corsairs and storms are the only possible option to beat Zerg. But hell, its pros problem, not mine exactly my thoughts Protoss WAY too conservative. tt
It fits with the lore.
Terrans are adaptive by nature and Zergs evolve every cycle.
Blame the conclave for favoring tradition instead of experimentation. 
PS
still waiting for protoss to find a good strategy that involves hallucination...
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On July 22 2011 22:17 Evs wrote:Show nested quote +On July 22 2011 22:11 Sinedd wrote:On July 22 2011 22:09 hitthat wrote:On July 22 2011 22:03 Gescom wrote:
Everyone make sure to let Bisu know how you feel about PvZ on your way. Don't be mad Jangbi played like a butt. i am mad for Jangbi playing bad, that's not resist anyone to find alternative answers. Thats why terrans and Zergs are evolving and protoss stay in their conservative world like it was still protoss dragons era. Likely they still believe that corsairs and storms are the only possible option to beat Zerg. But hell, its pros problem, not mine exactly my thoughts Protoss WAY too conservative. tt It fits with the lore. Terrans are adaptive by nature and Zergs evolve every cycle. Blame the conclave for favoring tradition instead of experimentation. PS still waiting for protoss to find a good strategy that involves hallucination...
this is a good spell, but storm is just awsome cheap spell. So its just a little shame to put energy for something like this, when you can have your little nuke to mass murder drones/probes/scvs
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On July 22 2011 22:05 kuroshiroi wrote:Show nested quote +On July 22 2011 21:59 Elyvilon wrote:On July 22 2011 21:55 Winechu wrote:On July 22 2011 21:51 hitthat wrote:
Actually most of this is not about balance complain but about theorycrafting to find an answer in actual state of balance. Why are you think it's all whinig? -scout the hydra den and yet still skimp on cannons I agree with a lot of your post, but this part is tough. If you build like 10 cannons or whatever, you're not going to lose immediately, but you're going to lose in 10 minutes since you can't pressure. It can be tricky to figure out whether a zerg is really hydrabusting or just wants you to think he is. Make a corsair, scout. Probe scout till you get a corsair. PvZ early game is mostly scouting.
More like lack of scouting. Probe scouting vs speedlings is near impossible at best, and the corsair is usually able to see the hydras as they march to your nat, which is a little bit too late.
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Mmhm.
Welcome to ShinHan Bank OSL Season 1 everyone!
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On July 22 2011 22:19 hitthat wrote:Show nested quote +On July 22 2011 22:17 Evs wrote:On July 22 2011 22:11 Sinedd wrote:On July 22 2011 22:09 hitthat wrote:On July 22 2011 22:03 Gescom wrote:
Everyone make sure to let Bisu know how you feel about PvZ on your way. Don't be mad Jangbi played like a butt. i am mad for Jangbi playing bad, that's not resist anyone to find alternative answers. Thats why terrans and Zergs are evolving and protoss stay in their conservative world like it was still protoss dragons era. Likely they still believe that corsairs and storms are the only possible option to beat Zerg. But hell, its pros problem, not mine exactly my thoughts Protoss WAY too conservative. tt It fits with the lore. Terrans are adaptive by nature and Zergs evolve every cycle. Blame the conclave for favoring tradition instead of experimentation. PS still waiting for protoss to find a good strategy that involves hallucination... this is a good spell, but storm is just awsome cheap spell. So its just a little shame to put energy for something like this, when you can have your little nuke to mass murder drones/probes/scvs
im just waiting for protoss to start using they damned skills/spells not only storm and stasis ;(
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ffs. I hate this.
Being a toss fan sucks hard.
But, it IS flash and I guessss Killer's been on a roll...
dammit Khandudes
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who is going to save the toss race ???? Let's see Stork ? nope 0-2 in osl hmm how about jangbi 0-2 errr no . So where's bisu well he didn't even make it into osl . So protoss dreams to enter osl has already been crushed T_T".
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Fenrax
United States5018 Posts
On July 22 2011 22:17 Evs wrote:Show nested quote +On July 22 2011 22:11 Sinedd wrote:On July 22 2011 22:09 hitthat wrote:On July 22 2011 22:03 Gescom wrote:
Everyone make sure to let Bisu know how you feel about PvZ on your way. Don't be mad Jangbi played like a butt. i am mad for Jangbi playing bad, that's not resist anyone to find alternative answers. Thats why terrans and Zergs are evolving and protoss stay in their conservative world like it was still protoss dragons era. Likely they still believe that corsairs and storms are the only possible option to beat Zerg. But hell, its pros problem, not mine exactly my thoughts Protoss WAY too conservative. tt It fits with the lore. Terrans are adaptive by nature and Zergs evolve every cycle. Blame the conclave for favoring tradition instead of experimentation. PS still waiting for protoss to find a good strategy that involves hallucination...
idra is sc2 now, so who would fall for it...
anyway, jangbi didnt play bad, it was extremely bad luck imo
soos timing was lucky. you can call it perfect timing but it involved a ton of luck imo. his attack came right before the one reaver came back from harass and the other had built his first scarab. if that attack came two seconds later jangbi would have held easily. he got a bit greedy with his harass, but imo that was okay. the result was not foreseeable from his position. shit happens and your opponent usually wont hit his 2 second window.
unlike stork whose game against flash was just horrible jangbi is still playing well. he just had extremely hard competion (top tier zergs) and tough luck in the last 4 games, thats all. unless he himself starts thinking that he slumps he is a contender for the individual leagues.
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AND it was a hydra bust?!
AND it was Failierrs?
DAMMIT!!!
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On July 22 2011 21:55 Winechu wrote:Show nested quote +On July 22 2011 21:51 hitthat wrote:
Actually most of this is not about balance complain but about theorycrafting to find an answer in actual state of balance. Why are you think it's all whinig? Most Ps deserve to be hydra busted -scout the hydra den and yet still skimp on cannons -go for a tech build like double stargate + dt without a follow up plan -don't make enough units and play greedy It's not the fault of Zs hydra busting if Ps decide to play like this, it gets the job done and players have to do what they have to to win. It is not a balance issue. It can be rectified by simply playing better. Hydra busts have been around forever. Ps should know better.
Remember Zero V Stork game a while ago, where zero didn't even build a lair, stork saw it, made a ton of cannons, and zero just continued to make a TON of drones, and then stork got SMASHED? Now, imagine the zerg DIDN'T delay his tech, and you, with minimal scouting toss builds more cannons, turns out, zerg wasn't hydra busting, and... you still get smashed.
Toss sortof needs to "commit" to a tech path. If 2 stargate + DT didn't work, do you think 1 stargate DT would work? or just DT would work? Those plans have a "follow up plan" but if 2 stargate DT didn't work, plans that have a follow up would get even more hard-smashed. (don't say, if they weren't prepared it would work, that goes as well for 2 stargate DT, or any other committed build)
Toss units, without HT/Reaver, are NEVER cost efficient against mass hydras, or lurkers, or lings...IDK if you mean "greedy" as in greedy tech, or greedy econ, but zerg almost always has an army advantage untill we get to high tech. (even a 2 base V 2 base, without reavers or HT, zerg wins) so we have to either tech quickly fast, OR catch up on econ fast.
The point of toss is to try to cut corners and get to high tech ASAP, but the problem is the margin of corner you can cut is paper thin. If you cut too much you get hydra busted, if you don't cut enough, zerg gets too big too quickly. (doesn't apply for our measly "non-pro ppl" as much though.) anyways... I hope toss finds an answer soon.
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On July 22 2011 22:15 DarkMatter_ wrote:Show nested quote +On July 22 2011 22:11 Dandy4 wrote:
How does it look in Group D now that Modesty won? Modesty winning was ideal for Jaedong. If Jaedong loses to hyvaa, there's still a chance for tiebreakers if Hyuk beats Modesty. Tiebreaker will be between Hyuk, Modesty, JD. If Jaedong wins against hyvaa and Modesty beats Hyuk, there's going to be a three way tiebreak between Hyuk, Modesty, JD. If JD loses and Hyuk loses against Modesty, it's over for JD.
Thanks hun, So I assume if JD wins againstHyvaa and Hyuk beats Modesty, then they both advance.
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On July 22 2011 23:33 Dandy4 wrote:Show nested quote +On July 22 2011 22:15 DarkMatter_ wrote:On July 22 2011 22:11 Dandy4 wrote:
How does it look in Group D now that Modesty won? Modesty winning was ideal for Jaedong. If Jaedong loses to hyvaa, there's still a chance for tiebreakers if Hyuk beats Modesty. Tiebreaker will be between Hyuk, Modesty, JD. If Jaedong wins against hyvaa and Modesty beats Hyuk, there's going to be a three way tiebreak between Hyuk, Modesty, JD. If JD loses and Hyuk loses against Modesty, it's over for JD. Thanks hun, So I assume if JD wins againstHyvaa and Hyuk beats Modesty, then they both advance.
That is correct.
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The best thing for toss is to protect own units from getting snipe for nothing which bisu has done well. But that isn't enough strategy against all zergs. The best vZ protoss still lose because the zergs actually practice solely vP matchup in individual leagues, not like proleague when u don't know who they send out, needing to practice vP vT vZ for the zerg player.
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EPT
