On June 28 2011 18:00 BLinD-RawR wrote: JD vs Bogus pls.
Worst case scenario. Hope I can take it like a man.
Bogus won the last time they played in PL. Of course, JD was still losing ace games at the time and JD has since then respectfully won against Bogus in the OSL but...
STX looks even worse off than last time Hwaseung and STX played. I think this will continue the pattern of the teams I don't want to win to win this week.
Hiya moving tank/vulture to break classic's southern tank line on the S ridge - gains some ground but Classic brings in more forces to the west - and Hiya lost a lot of stuff
Classic moving 3 dropships out now - probably doesn't even need them to close out the game - Hiya's tank lines can't effectively defend with so few in number
Kal adding 5 more cannons to his nat choke (6) His zealots running from Hydraling right into Killer's main - souct score some drone kills if Killer isn't careful at least 3 so far
DT heading to Killer's 3rd just as the ovie starts pulling away???
mutas almost never work in zvp. Just don't make them please. EVER. Or scout before you fly them into enemy's base for the case he has some over-powered shit that beats them all in 1 hit.
That game was so worth it, if only for the maelstrom.
On June 28 2011 18:56 3 wrote: burrow is such a rare event in most BW games right?
Yes, it's rarely gotten. Burrow is kinda flawed in BW. Units take too long to begin attacking after unburrowing, so its utility for ambushes is pretty nonexistent. Mostly its used for info gathering and occasionally backstabs.
On June 28 2011 18:58 _Quasar_ wrote: mutas almost never work in zvp. Just don't make them please. EVER. Or scout before you fly them into enemy's base for the case he has some over-powered shit that beats them all in 1 hit.
Yes, so many ways toss can really make mutas like nothing - archon, storm, corsairs.
how the f did jd build so many mutas off like 4 drones on minerals? did calm really lose that many?
JD's lings + forcing a sunken evened the drone count. Plus he also pulled a miner off gas back onto mins at some point. And SO many scourge hits put him ahead in air.
1 DT swiping at Bogus's army as it pulls away from 12
And Anytime once again flies his carriers near Goliaths
Considering how few units Anytime relatively has he's actually doing very well in these engagements...but he shakes his head as his entire ground army falls
Wow Hiya and Killer. Way to fail when the team needs you the most. No playoffs for Oz (i know there's still like a one in a million chance even if they lose this match but let's be realistic here).
Zealot speed done just in time for them to retreat from Hydraling approaching
A few more cannons placed at Hyo's choke
2nd gate done in the main, a 3rd added
Hydra quickly breaking down the 2 finished cannons at Hyo's choke, and take down another just-finished cannon and another another 4 placed, 1 more taken down zealots finish off the last hydra
Hmm, everyone except JD lost. Is JD too good or the others just too lousy? JD is now on an 8 winning streak, but there's no time to celebrate at all...
Yes, but STX needs to lose to WMF in a close game, OZ needs to 4-0/4-1 Khan, and then WMF has to lose their last game to WJN by a large margin as well.
On June 28 2011 19:59 baubo wrote: Man, Flash looks questionable for KT and Jaedong ever closer to being out of the playoffs. So sad.
Not to mention Stork in a bad slump, TBLS is falling, except Bisu
meh, I don't really care about Stork much in the PL. He's never great in the PL anyways. In this regards he's like the anti-Bisu, failing in PL and succeeding in SL. Khan's in the playoffs more due to team effort than Stork. The reason I lament for KT and Oz is because they're worthless without their top players.
On a side note, every time I post about Stork and Bisu, I lament that they're 2 players not one. And BW will end without a single true dominant protoss.
On June 28 2011 20:29 shurgen wrote: Yes, but STX needs to lose to WMF in a close game, OZ needs to 4-0/4-1 Khan, and then WMF has to lose their last game to WJN by a large margin as well.
Thats almost imposible to happen. OZ is 99.99% out of the playoffs
Great team you have there, JD. But honestly, with this performance they would exit the playoffs the in first round, so they may as well let Jaedong prepare for osl.
On June 28 2011 20:42 zdubius wrote: Great team you have there, JD. But honestly, with this performance they would exit the playoffs the in first round, so they may as well let Jaedong prepare for osl.
They'd likely play the Flash-less KT, so on the contrary, perhaps not.
Btw, surprised at the number of KT fans relative to Oz fans. Similar number of post. But KT playing a meaningless match without Flash. And Oz fighting for their playoff spot with Jaedong.
On June 28 2011 19:59 baubo wrote: Man, Flash looks questionable for KT and Jaedong ever closer to being out of the playoffs. So sad.
Not to mention Stork in a bad slump, TBLS is falling, except Bisu
meh, I don't really care about Stork much in the PL. He's never great in the PL anyways. In this regards he's like the anti-Bisu, failing in PL and succeeding in SL. Khan's in the playoffs more due to team effort than Stork. The reason I lament for KT and Oz is because they're worthless without their top players.
On a side note, every time I post about Stork and Bisu, I lament that they're 2 players not one. And BW will end without a single true dominant protoss.
protoss too easy, so it's not challenging. Thats why truly outstanding personalities choose Terran or Zerg.
On June 28 2011 20:29 shurgen wrote: Yes, but STX needs to lose to WMF in a close game, OZ needs to 4-0/4-1 Khan, and then WMF has to lose their last game to WJN by a large margin as well.
Oz is -1 game diff against WMF. It's close if it comes down to game diff. The "large" margins you speak of don't need t happen.
Fuck proleague. What's the point of even having the playoff matches with the teams in the 3rd to 6th spots. Let SKT and CJ play each other and be done with shitty broken tournament.
On June 28 2011 19:59 baubo wrote: Man, Flash looks questionable for KT and Jaedong ever closer to being out of the playoffs. So sad.
Not to mention Stork in a bad slump, TBLS is falling, except Bisu
meh, I don't really care about Stork much in the PL. He's never great in the PL anyways. In this regards he's like the anti-Bisu, failing in PL and succeeding in SL. Khan's in the playoffs more due to team effort than Stork. The reason I lament for KT and Oz is because they're worthless without their top players.
On a side note, every time I post about Stork and Bisu, I lament that they're 2 players not one. And BW will end without a single true dominant protoss.
protoss too easy, so it's not challenging. Thats why truly outstanding personalities choose Terran or Zerg.
Too easy yet theres never been a dominant protoss.
On June 28 2011 19:59 baubo wrote: Man, Flash looks questionable for KT and Jaedong ever closer to being out of the playoffs. So sad.
Not to mention Stork in a bad slump, TBLS is falling, except Bisu
meh, I don't really care about Stork much in the PL. He's never great in the PL anyways. In this regards he's like the anti-Bisu, failing in PL and succeeding in SL. Khan's in the playoffs more due to team effort than Stork. The reason I lament for KT and Oz is because they're worthless without their top players.
On a side note, every time I post about Stork and Bisu, I lament that they're 2 players not one. And BW will end without a single true dominant protoss.
protoss too easy, so it's not challenging. Thats why truly outstanding personalities choose Terran or Zerg.
Too easy yet theres never been a dominant protoss.
Logic is flawless.
It's not challenging enough to play this race. So it's generally chosen by lazy and relaxed people, and the winners are almost exclusively hard-working and never fully satisfied ones. Look for example at Flash and Jaedong.
btw Bisu had been kind of dominant. Just not enough long to be called a bonjwa, but there was such a period. Even his loss to Mind afaik looked something like Flash<Effort @ OSL final... sad case yes but not meaning that player ceased to be #1.
I may be one of the few people happy for STX, but I'm still very worried about the match with FOX. I hope we'll give it our best shot. Also, a Calm victory is way overdue. Too bad Good Guys have to fight over these spots while the Bad Guys already preemptively gloat over their championship trophy. -.-
On June 29 2011 01:53 mustaju wrote: I may be one of the few people happy for STX, but I'm still very worried about the match with FOX. I hope we'll give it our best shot. Also, a Calm victory is way overdue. Too bad Good Guys have to fight over these spots while the Bad Guys already preemptively gloat over their championship trophy. -.-
Dont worry, STX will destroy anyone world in 2012.
I honestly think that once Jaedong is out of the slump, the rest of Oz started to take it easy and somehow think it still winner's league and can just count on Jaedong for the win.
On June 29 2011 03:29 Ryusei-R1 wrote: Every time Jaedong plays like a motherfucking badass, the rest of Oz loses.
Why is it when Jaedong played bad for a few games the rest of Oz picked it up, but then when he comes back into form the rest of Oz slumps again?
I have this theory that Killer and Hiya are really clutch, so if Killer needs to win a game 6 in a 2-3 scenario, he will win. Similarly, Hiya can take ace matches or do well in WL when JD is slumping. But when those two are the first to play and they know JD will win, they think them losing doesn't matter, as there are plenty of other games to be played.
On the other hand, maybe Hiya just sucks at TvT right now, Killer isn't better than Kal, Anytime was outclassed by Bogus and Hyo is a rookie in the worst possible situation he could have faced.
On June 29 2011 03:29 Ryusei-R1 wrote: Every time Jaedong plays like a motherfucking badass, the rest of Oz loses.
Why is it when Jaedong played bad for a few games the rest of Oz picked it up, but then when he comes back into form the rest of Oz slumps again?
I have this theory that Killer and Hiya are really clutch, so if Killer needs to win a game 6 in a 2-3 scenario, he will win. Similarly, Hiya can take ace matches or do well in WL when JD is slumping. But when those two are the first to play and they know JD will win, they think them losing doesn't matter, as there are plenty of other games to be played.
On the other hand, maybe Hiya just sucks at TvT right now, Killer isn't better than Kal, Anytime was outclassed by Bogus and Hyo is a rookie in the worst possible situation he could have faced.
It's one or the other, really
I think Oz is one decent player away from being a playoff team. Right now Princess, Perfectman, and Hiya just aren't the answer... Hiya should have been that decent player but has been god frickin awful this season with a few redeeming moments. I feel Killer has developed alot this year and I hope his continues to progress, but Oz really needs a decent consistent player to truly get out of this mediocre JD Oz image.
On June 29 2011 04:46 DarkMatter_ wrote: I really wish we got to see more of Shy. He's played some pretty nice games and in general, I can't recall any facepalm-worthy games from him.
The problem with OZ is fairly obvious: after Jaedong, their best players are Killer (who has improved dramatically over his two years as an A-teamer, and should keep getting better) and Anytime (savvy old veteran).
HiyA ought to be/used to be a second ace threat but he's fallen off horribly over the last year or so (almost as bad as Jangbi before the recent resurrection).
After those four, OZ has Lomo, and a slew of young promising Protoss (Dear, sHy (probably the best of them), sky, Perfectman (may have lost the "promising" title by now), hyo who is actually sky, lol, etc.).
Basically, if we were still doing Bo5 I guarantee OZ makes the playoffs.
On June 29 2011 05:17 VGhost wrote: The problem with OZ is fairly obvious: after Jaedong, their best players are Killer (who has improved dramatically over his two years as an A-teamer, and should keep getting better) and Anytime (savvy old veteran).
HiyA ought to be/used to be a second ace threat but he's fallen off horribly over the last year or so (almost as bad as Jangbi before the recent resurrection).
After those four, OZ has Lomo, and a slew of young promising Protoss (Dear, sHy (probably the best of them), sky, Perfectman (may have lost the "promising" title by now), hyo, etc.).
Basically, if we were still doing Bo5 I guarantee OZ makes the playoffs.
I dunno about "guarantee" because Bo5 means STX, MBC and Fox would be getting more wins as well.
I completely agree that Oz is 1 A-class player away from being a solid playoff contender. JD is pretty much autowin for two games so they just need two fuckin wins from everyone else. Its just sad to see them continue to be Jaedong Oz. I almost wish one of the other teams would disband so Oz can pickup a solid player in the draft...
Well JD has lost some important Ace matches as well vs Bogus and Zero and some other important game. Yes it is maybe to much for JD to carry his team but his ace match appearance was not good this season.
On June 29 2011 05:17 VGhost wrote: The problem with OZ is fairly obvious: after Jaedong, their best players are Killer (who has improved dramatically over his two years as an A-teamer, and should keep getting better) and Anytime (savvy old veteran).
HiyA ought to be/used to be a second ace threat but he's fallen off horribly over the last year or so (almost as bad as Jangbi before the recent resurrection).
After those four, OZ has Lomo, and a slew of young promising Protoss (Dear, sHy (probably the best of them), sky, Perfectman (may have lost the "promising" title by now), hyo, etc.).
Basically, if we were still doing Bo5 I guarantee OZ makes the playoffs.
Oz may have gotten destroyed, but I'm still happy that Jaedong won. Am I a terrbile fan?
On June 29 2011 05:37 jyLee wrote: I completely agree that Oz is 1 A-class player away from being a solid playoff contender. JD is pretty much autowin for two games so they just need two fuckin wins from everyone else. Its just sad to see them continue to be Jaedong Oz. I almost wish one of the other teams would disband so Oz can pickup a solid player in the draft...
To be fair, Jaedong hasn't really preformed up to the standard of an Ace player this season. He's dropped quite a few games and his Ace record this year wasn't exactly "jaedong-esque" if I can remember correctly. I do agree Oz needs another very good player who can deliver results on a consistent basis and be almost guarenteed to win games against weaker players (like KT has stats). Oz isn't as bad in paper but Lomo's fallen, Killer still has consistency issues, and Hiya is prone to going on slumps for long periods of time. Oh and the lack of a half-decent Protoss really hurts too; there are some up and comers but they still need time to develop.
On June 29 2011 06:49 Release wrote: Whenever OZ loses, it's a consolation prize to see Jaedong win, so it's not all bad, but Khan and Stars are definitely the contenders now.
Lol thats exactly how I feel, except I'd happier seeing Jd win than i am seeing oz win D:
On June 29 2011 05:37 jyLee wrote: I completely agree that Oz is 1 A-class player away from being a solid playoff contender. JD is pretty much autowin for two games so they just need two fuckin wins from everyone else. Its just sad to see them continue to be Jaedong Oz. I almost wish one of the other teams would disband so Oz can pickup a solid player in the draft...
To be fair, Jaedong hasn't really preformed up to the standard of an Ace player this season. He's dropped quite a few games and his Ace record this year wasn't exactly "jaedong-esque" if I can remember correctly. I do agree Oz needs another very good player who can deliver results on a consistent basis and be almost guarenteed to win games against weaker players (like KT has stats). Oz isn't as bad in paper but Lomo's fallen, Killer still has consistency issues, and Hiya is prone to going on slumps for long periods of time. Oh and the lack of a half-decent Protoss really hurts too; there are some up and comers but they still need time to develop.
Even if JD is not playing up to his usual standards in ace games what other players not named Flash/JD would anyone put actual money down on in ace matches. Bisu? Stork? Zero? lol no thanks. JD/Flash in massive slump mode > anyone else. JD loses a couple matches in a row and thats considered a huge slump but when players like Bisu go on slumps they are done for entire seasons. This really isnt fanboyism and just shows how scarily consistent those two players are. Give JD one REAL A-class player with Hiya as the 3rd option and Oz would easily be a top 3 contender. Hiya just isnt consistent enough to be playing the second best players on other teams regularily but would crush your regular A-teamer.
Even as a Jaedong fan, you should enjoy it when Oz wins despite JD losing. It means he can feel less burdened knowing that his teammates can actually hold their own once in a while. As a Jaedong fan, it's painful watching Jaedong being consistently let down by his teammates.
Although, I still think last season was worse. I'm actually surprised that Oz managed to do as well as they did with the Bo7 format. Some of the players (Killer, Perfectman) definitely stepped up their game and several of the losses were partially due to JD under performing as the team's ace and losing a bunch of ace matches in the earlier rounds.
On June 29 2011 06:33 TheSubtleArt wrote: Oz may have gotten destroyed, but I'm still happy that Jaedong won. Am I a terrbile fan?
On June 29 2011 05:37 jyLee wrote: I completely agree that Oz is 1 A-class player away from being a solid playoff contender. JD is pretty much autowin for two games so they just need two fuckin wins from everyone else. Its just sad to see them continue to be Jaedong Oz. I almost wish one of the other teams would disband so Oz can pickup a solid player in the draft...
To be fair, Jaedong hasn't really preformed up to the standard of an Ace player this season. He's dropped quite a few games and his Ace record this year wasn't exactly "jaedong-esque" if I can remember correctly. I do agree Oz needs another very good player who can deliver results on a consistent basis and be almost guarenteed to win games against weaker players (like KT has stats). Oz isn't as bad in paper but Lomo's fallen, Killer still has consistency issues, and Hiya is prone to going on slumps for long periods of time. Oh and the lack of a half-decent Protoss really hurts too; there are some up and comers but they still need time to develop.
Even if JD is not playing up to his usual standards in ace games what other players not named Flash/JD would anyone put actual money down on in ace matches. Bisu? Stork? Zero? lol no thanks. JD/Flash in massive slump mode > anyone else. JD loses a couple matches in a row and thats considered a huge slump but when players like Bisu go on slumps they are done for entire seasons. This really isnt fanboyism and just shows how scarily consistent those two players are. Give JD one REAL A-class player with Hiya as the 3rd option and Oz would easily be a top 3 contender. Hiya just isnt consistent enough to be playing the second best players on other teams regularily but would crush your regular A-teamer.
I don't disagree, Jaedong is still frighteningly good even when he's slumping. Just saying, this season's preformance wasn't his best and there were some stretches where he was letting the team down and other players were carrying the burden. It's all relative, of course. Jaedong in his current form is still probably better than almost any player out there, but as a big Jaedong fan, and having watched what he did up to last year, this season was a little bit of a letdown.
On June 29 2011 06:33 TheSubtleArt wrote: Oz may have gotten destroyed, but I'm still happy that Jaedong won. Am I a terrbile fan?
On June 29 2011 05:37 jyLee wrote: I completely agree that Oz is 1 A-class player away from being a solid playoff contender. JD is pretty much autowin for two games so they just need two fuckin wins from everyone else. Its just sad to see them continue to be Jaedong Oz. I almost wish one of the other teams would disband so Oz can pickup a solid player in the draft...
To be fair, Jaedong hasn't really preformed up to the standard of an Ace player this season. He's dropped quite a few games and his Ace record this year wasn't exactly "jaedong-esque" if I can remember correctly. I do agree Oz needs another very good player who can deliver results on a consistent basis and be almost guarenteed to win games against weaker players (like KT has stats). Oz isn't as bad in paper but Lomo's fallen, Killer still has consistency issues, and Hiya is prone to going on slumps for long periods of time. Oh and the lack of a half-decent Protoss really hurts too; there are some up and comers but they still need time to develop.
Even if JD is not playing up to his usual standards in ace games what other players not named Flash/JD would anyone put actual money down on in ace matches. Bisu? Stork? Zero? lol no thanks. JD/Flash in massive slump mode > anyone else. JD loses a couple matches in a row and thats considered a huge slump but when players like Bisu go on slumps they are done for entire seasons. This really isnt fanboyism and just shows how scarily consistent those two players are. Give JD one REAL A-class player with Hiya as the 3rd option and Oz would easily be a top 3 contender. Hiya just isnt consistent enough to be playing the second best players on other teams regularily but would crush your regular A-teamer.
I would put money down on Bisu in an ace match against anyone that's not Flash..
On June 29 2011 05:17 VGhost wrote: The problem with OZ is fairly obvious: after Jaedong, their best players are Killer (who has improved dramatically over his two years as an A-teamer, and should keep getting better) and Anytime (savvy old veteran).
HiyA ought to be/used to be a second ace threat but he's fallen off horribly over the last year or so (almost as bad as Jangbi before the recent resurrection).
After those four, OZ has Lomo, and a slew of young promising Protoss (Dear, sHy (probably the best of them), sky, Perfectman (may have lost the "promising" title by now), hyo, etc.).
Basically, if we were still doing Bo5 I guarantee OZ makes the playoffs.
I dunno about "guarantee" because Bo5 means STX, MBC and Fox would be getting more wins as well.
I'll take Jaedong against Calm, Kal, Bogus, Mind, BaBy, RorO, Jaehoon, or Sea any day. ANY DAY.
Jaedong's maybe not at his 2009 peak, relatively speaking, but the only players I'd worry about him facing are Bisu, Stork, and Flash - probably in that order. Whereas STX ace players are known for blinding inconsistency, MBC has replaced Sea-Light with Sea-Jaehoon (not as good), and FOX... I don't know what to make of FOX, honestly. If they had T1 or CJ coaching I think they'd rip up everybody, but as is they're maddening (I sympathize as a Stars fan, lol).
On June 29 2011 06:33 TheSubtleArt wrote: Oz may have gotten destroyed, but I'm still happy that Jaedong won. Am I a terrbile fan?
On June 29 2011 05:37 jyLee wrote: I completely agree that Oz is 1 A-class player away from being a solid playoff contender. JD is pretty much autowin for two games so they just need two fuckin wins from everyone else. Its just sad to see them continue to be Jaedong Oz. I almost wish one of the other teams would disband so Oz can pickup a solid player in the draft...
To be fair, Jaedong hasn't really preformed up to the standard of an Ace player this season. He's dropped quite a few games and his Ace record this year wasn't exactly "jaedong-esque" if I can remember correctly. I do agree Oz needs another very good player who can deliver results on a consistent basis and be almost guarenteed to win games against weaker players (like KT has stats). Oz isn't as bad in paper but Lomo's fallen, Killer still has consistency issues, and Hiya is prone to going on slumps for long periods of time. Oh and the lack of a half-decent Protoss really hurts too; there are some up and comers but they still need time to develop.
Even if JD is not playing up to his usual standards in ace games what other players not named Flash/JD would anyone put actual money down on in ace matches. Bisu? Stork? Zero? lol no thanks. JD/Flash in massive slump mode > anyone else. JD loses a couple matches in a row and thats considered a huge slump but when players like Bisu go on slumps they are done for entire seasons. This really isnt fanboyism and just shows how scarily consistent those two players are. Give JD one REAL A-class player with Hiya as the 3rd option and Oz would easily be a top 3 contender. Hiya just isnt consistent enough to be playing the second best players on other teams regularily but would crush your regular A-teamer.
I would put money down on Bisu in an ace match against anyone that's not Flash..
I still remember during the last msl selection ceremony how hard Bisu cried about being stuck in the group of death but Flash/JD both said they didnt care. Good luck with bankruptcy.
On June 29 2011 06:33 TheSubtleArt wrote: Oz may have gotten destroyed, but I'm still happy that Jaedong won. Am I a terrbile fan?
On June 29 2011 05:37 jyLee wrote: I completely agree that Oz is 1 A-class player away from being a solid playoff contender. JD is pretty much autowin for two games so they just need two fuckin wins from everyone else. Its just sad to see them continue to be Jaedong Oz. I almost wish one of the other teams would disband so Oz can pickup a solid player in the draft...
To be fair, Jaedong hasn't really preformed up to the standard of an Ace player this season. He's dropped quite a few games and his Ace record this year wasn't exactly "jaedong-esque" if I can remember correctly. I do agree Oz needs another very good player who can deliver results on a consistent basis and be almost guarenteed to win games against weaker players (like KT has stats). Oz isn't as bad in paper but Lomo's fallen, Killer still has consistency issues, and Hiya is prone to going on slumps for long periods of time. Oh and the lack of a half-decent Protoss really hurts too; there are some up and comers but they still need time to develop.
Even if JD is not playing up to his usual standards in ace games what other players not named Flash/JD would anyone put actual money down on in ace matches. Bisu? Stork? Zero? lol no thanks. JD/Flash in massive slump mode > anyone else. JD loses a couple matches in a row and thats considered a huge slump but when players like Bisu go on slumps they are done for entire seasons. This really isnt fanboyism and just shows how scarily consistent those two players are. Give JD one REAL A-class player with Hiya as the 3rd option and Oz would easily be a top 3 contender. Hiya just isnt consistent enough to be playing the second best players on other teams regularily but would crush your regular A-teamer.
I would put money down on Bisu in an ace match against anyone that's not Flash..
I still remember during the last msl selection ceremony how hard Bisu cried about being stuck in the group of death but Flash/JD both said they didnt care. Good luck with bankruptcy.
and Bisu has the highest number of wins in Proleague. I think I'd make a pretty nice profit lol
EPT
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/XIt8I.png)
Banner by Prototype!![[image loading]](http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/images/teams/5.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/images/teams/11.jpg)
Classic «La Mancha» 
Kal «aLternative» 
Killer
![[image loading]](http://www.teamliquid.net/staff/R1CH/Happy2.gif)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/llZXa.gif)
