[SPL] KT Rolster vs Hwaseung OZ - Page 28

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gimmeateeshitkent

Australia80 Posts

June 15 2011 06:10 GMT

#541

oz protoss are so happy

Quarz

448 Posts

June 15 2011 06:10 GMT

#542

OZ have won 3 times in regular league^^

Kipsate

Netherlands45349 Posts

June 15 2011 06:10 GMT

#543

yay OZ winning!

IamBach

United States1059 Posts

June 15 2011 06:10 GMT

#544

Look how happy they are!

Dandy4

United States493 Posts

June 15 2011 06:11 GMT

#545

It saddens me that I will not get to see the winner's interview.

salito

1649 Posts

June 15 2011 06:11 GMT

#546

Everything fell into place for Oz today. All their victories had something to them that I enjoyed. Sucks for Lomo though. I think he's good enough to beat zergs at a 50% rate.

Winechu

Singapore1186 Posts

June 15 2011 06:12 GMT

#547

Really tough loss to stomach. No way KT is winning PL this year.

These guys need to shape up. Stats and CH need to be more consistent. Action and Tempest need to stop failing. Flash needs to turn on his godmode. The rookies need to improve quickly and do their part. Whatever happened to winning it all for Violet? :/ No resolve in their play at all.

jjhchsc2

Korea (South)2393 Posts

June 15 2011 06:12 GMT

#548

On June 15 2011 14:59 mierin wrote:

Show nested quote +

On June 15 2011 14:56 blade55555 wrote:

On June 15 2011 14:54 champignones wrote:

On June 15 2011 14:46 blade55555 wrote:

On June 15 2011 14:39 champignones wrote:

On June 15 2011 14:37 blade55555 wrote:

On June 15 2011 14:36 champignones wrote:
its funny all these people talk about the great zvt from flash when he only won by a muta lame attack, tell me when he win flash in a long macro game and we will talk about having good zvt.

tell me when flash stops making mistakes so that jaedong doesn't have to kill him early, then we can have a good zvt

this only proves flash messed up big time and thats it, jd will gain my respect again when he win flash in a BO5 in a league final or semifinal ,but i promise you he will lose as he always do against flash.

well he's not going to let flash get away with 14 cc, and being super greedy like he was. That is suicide due to terran having a way better economy. So you count a macro game where flash is ahead in economy from the get go? No that isn't how it should work, so till Flash stops being so greedy (moving his force over to the third + making a bunker to make it so jaedong would be way behind while also 14 CC'ing). He deserves to lose.

flash could hold that attack regarding he made 14 cc , his mistake was that he divide his forces in order to try to deny third, and jaedong simply took advantage and went for the main. as i told you this shows nothing about jaedong skill at all, this only shows he .... does mutalisk?, i wanted to see defiler swarm terran advancing retreating, etc. if jaedong would have won in that way then i would say his zvt is just godly like the last time they play when he clearly outmacroed flash, unfortunately flash wasnt able to show his late game play due to that mistake.

I want to see it to i'm just saying letting flash do all that is being greedy and should be punished. Like I said he sent most of his forces and made a bunker at jaedongs third to deny it longer then normal and be that much more ahead economically. Instead Jaedong punishes him (whether by scouting or by luck) and wins.

Just like jaedong deserved to lose when he was mass expanding while making no units then flash would come out and kill him in like alot of the finals. He deserved to lose for being to greedy just like flash, flash didn't beat him in a macro game, jaedong lost because he was being to greedy like flash trying to get a huge advantage to where if flash let it go untouched, would be rolled over like a pancake.

Pretty much 100% my thoughts. These players don't seem to lose to each other "legitimately" much any more...it's just BO wins or punished excessive greed.

Lol the last time i remember a legit win from JvF was in the 3rd set of bigfile msl final on fighting spirit. There also that game from winner's league ace match where jd made a huge blunder and lost. And also that game in the death group.

Any from watching JvF i have learnt that it's all mind games right now. Man remember the Korean air Osl 2 final?
So much cheese and unorthodox builds in the last series they met in Bo5

TwoToneTerran

United States8841 Posts

June 15 2011 06:12 GMT

#549

On June 15 2011 15:04 tbrown47 wrote:

Show nested quote +

On June 15 2011 15:01 TwoToneTerran wrote:

On June 15 2011 14:58 tbrown47 wrote:

On June 15 2011 14:54 TwoToneTerran wrote:

On June 15 2011 14:52 tbrown47 wrote:

On June 15 2011 14:41 Carnivorous Sheep wrote:

On June 15 2011 14:39 konadora wrote:

On June 15 2011 14:39 Carnivorous Sheep wrote:

On June 15 2011 14:37 Winechu wrote:

On June 15 2011 14:35 disciple wrote:
how the game went imo:

JD opens with early game ling aggression, Flash sees it coming and block it on the ramp outside of his natural. JD is behind on drones and economy so he decides to 2 base all-in. For some reason Flash thinks JD would take a 3rd on 9 o'clock and gets his entire army there and leaves 2 firebats in the bunker outside of his nat. JD goes in with muta, and flash seems to have enough turrets. JD brings in a control group of lings to clean up and turrets while it takes half a day for flash to bring back his forces from 9 o'clock. GG

It was aggressive, but it wasn't an all-in IMO

Definitely all-in. 14cc vs. forced to mass two groups of lings, 2 sunkens, and no third? Definitely all-in :3

wouldn't be enough to call it all-in, tbh

If that attack did anything less than kill like 20 SCVs and a bazillion marines, Jaedong would've lost :3 Pretty all-in ;o

all-in is such a misused word

all-in means if the attack doesnt win the game then the all-iner loses. you just admitted yourself the attack wasn't all-in by saying "20 scvs/a lot of marines" isn't killing the opponent

the term "all-in" itself is a dumb word anyway, nothing is "all-in" if you think about it. as long as you do equal damage that you put into it its cost effective.

You just admitted you don't know what killing your opponent is when you think that killing their entire army and 2/3rds of their workers isn't killing them. It was all in -- if a zerg uses only 3 hatches to make nothing but units and skips drones and goes from mutas directly to lurkers without taking a third it is a straight all in. There is nothing embarassing or shameful about doing an all in.

That isn't "all-in" though. All in means ALL or NOTHING, win or lose, etc. If he did enough damage, but Flash still survived, the game could've transitioned into something somewhat normal.

If you invest, for example, 1000 minerals and 500 gas into an early attack by not expanding/teching then you deal 1000 minerals and 500 gas with that attack, then you didn't kill your opponent or kill yourself. You are on an even footing. I understand what people mean when they say "all-in", it is just a stupid word to describe the form of play, imo.

This is pedantic bordering nonsense. If the attack does not do enough to kill flash then it's 2 base vs 2 base which is a dead situation for zerg everytime. The intent of the play is to kill the opponent or expect a loss. It is a one in a thousand scenario when attacks like these just cancel out. Favoring the aberration is silly.

You are making it sound like they have to cancel eachother out exactly. Besides 2 base Z vs 2 base T with ALOT less SCVs doesn't mean T wins. It isn't an abberation at all, I was just using that as an example. JD did enough damage there, if his mutalisks would've died somehow there the game could've transitioned into something normal. That isn't the definition of the term "all-in".

edit:

I think you are losing perspective of what I'm arguing, or I didn't make it clear. To me, there really isn't any "all-in" in Starcraft, because there are never only 2 options, win or lose. There are too many factors that dictate the game. All-in is a misused word.

Then you're just being pedantic and don't get how TvZ works. This particular attack WAS all in because if the attack does not work then Flash has a complete mnm force roaming the map and zerg can do nothing to win in this situation -- you don't produce enough units on that economy with only 3 hatches to beat even one control group of MnM. From there you just die once the terran decides to make a tank, because the only thing to stop terran from killing your nat is the 3 lurkers you could bother to afford to defend it. There is no conceivable scenario where if that attack does not win the game that Flash doesn't win. This is not always the case with cheeses, but atleast in this scenario it was all in.

Unless you want to declassify it as a non-allin because if it failed and Flash decided to just stop playing, took his hands off his mouse and keyboard, and let Jaedong do whatever he wants then yes Jaedong could've gotten back in the game. I don't live in a fantasy world.

Djagulingu

Germany3605 Posts

June 15 2011 06:13 GMT

#550

KT even thought that they have a chance after first set.

Hero.SP

Chile711 Posts

June 15 2011 06:13 GMT

#551

Flash : Keeping his mm force at 9
Stats: Exp at a place easily destroyed by siege tanks.
Tempest: DT exp with no damage from DT.

Yeah it sucks for today

Z3kk

4099 Posts

June 15 2011 06:13 GMT

#552

NICE!

Oz like a boss! :D

WWJDD

India342 Posts

June 15 2011 06:15 GMT

#553

Where's my comment??

Brycks7

Peru183 Posts

June 15 2011 06:15 GMT

#554

Yay Oz!

rainei

Canada1316 Posts

June 15 2011 06:15 GMT

#555

Yay Go OZ!!

Interesting fact. Today's lone ZvZ was the longest game today, and longer than the next three games, a ZvT, TvP, and a PvP combined lol.

Tenhou

1052 Posts

June 15 2011 06:16 GMT

#556

On June 15 2011 15:13 Hero.SP wrote:
Flash : Keeping his mm force at 9
Stats: Exp at a place easily destroyed by siege tanks.
Tempest: DT exp with no damage from DT.

Yeah it sucks for today

Don't forget action lost from some advantage in the beginning.

Scaramanga

Australia8093 Posts

June 15 2011 06:16 GMT

#557

So many antifans lol