A 1:1 loss/win economy-wise is a win in every situation for the Zerg. You have to factor the actual "unit combat value" which is very high for most Terrans and quite low for Zerg. Therefore killing 10 tanks sacrificing equal (or even more, since you will probably be on more bases than terran) worth resources of mutalisk is worth it 9/10 times simply because if you were to kill these tanks using other methods like simple lurker ling (mb ultra) defiler play you will not only risk losing all of them and succeeding in nothing, but you will also probably waste more resources [than if you made the mutas] even if you do succeed with it.

Edit: Approximately 14 tanks, 1 vessel, 5-6 turret, 4-5 goliaths, 5-6+ scvs for 17-20 mutas (or 11-14 since ~5-6 survive). Certainly not a bad deal at this stage of the game imo

.

Either way, gg, bit to close though.

Really sucks about Stork, wanted him to beat Hydra so bad. Praying for 2-1 comeback.

Warrior Madness

Canada3791 Posts

April 29 2011 19:27 GMT

#1102

Not gonna lie, I haven't watched too many bw games ever since flash demolished Jaedong. Twice. That was crippling to watch. Of course now I'm playing catchup, trying to watch as many VODs as I can now.

For someone with a crappy tvz reality really brought it to Jaedong that game. In fact I was really worried, not only about this game but about JD's games versus flash in the future. How the Hell are you supposed to beat FLASH when he goes bio, splits the map and mechs? I mean JD was dropping, attacking and defending everywhere. He maybe should've focused on upper left a little bit more but it was madness. But still, Reality held. But then JD made queens O_O. And he broke a tank contain with ling drops, hydras and defilers, and then he destroyed three mining bases with a queen push. My reaction: + Show Spoiler +

So which handsome zerg came up with this brilliant strategy? What are a few games you recommend? What was the first game where this appeared?

419

Russian Federation3631 Posts

April 29 2011 20:35 GMT

#1103

On April 30 2011 04:27 Warrior Madness wrote:
Not gonna lie, I haven't watched too many bw games ever since flash demolished Jaedong. Twice. That was crippling to watch. Of course now I'm playing catchup, trying to watch as many VODs as I can now.

For someone with a crappy tvz reality really brought it to Jaedong that game. In fact I was really worried, not only about this game but about JD's games versus flash in the future. How the Hell are you supposed to beat FLASH when he goes bio, splits the map and mechs? I mean JD was dropping, attacking and defending everywhere. He maybe should've focused on upper left a little bit more but it was madness. But still, Reality held. But then JD made queens O_O. And he broke a tank contain with ling drops, hydras and defilers, and then he destroyed three mining bases with a queen push. My reaction: + Show Spoiler +

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O4ZFIWCCGNo#t=31

So which handsome zerg came up with this brilliant strategy? What are a few games you recommend? What was the first game where this appeared?

I think one of the games where there was good queen play was Crazy-Hydra vs Sea on Circuit Breakers:

But Soulkey really unlocked (HEH) the full potential of the queen in this insane comeback vs Fantasy (7 kill queen!)

maybenexttime

Poland5855 Posts

April 29 2011 20:39 GMT

#1104

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O4ZFIWCCGNo#t=31

So which handsome zerg came up with this brilliant strategy? What are a few games you recommend? What was the first game where this appeared?

Some other recent games involving Queens:

Warrior Madness

Canada3791 Posts

April 29 2011 22:15 GMT

#1105

Thanks for the links guys. I've never seen that many tanks ever.... I can't believe soulkey killed all of them. Speaking of soulkey. Wow. Even in just a few games his control of his queens has improved sooo much. Comparing his ro32 games with his more recent proleague matches. He's so much better now at running in with his queens and keeping them alive afterwards. He moves them in small groups of 4 now. Also liked that he waited until the science vessel count was low or way out of position before using them. I can't wait to see Jaedong's twist on this o_o, if it becomes a solid lategame strategy.

infinity2k9

United Kingdom2397 Posts

April 30 2011 02:05 GMT

#1106

Jaedong's game was so impressive.. his ZvT lately is insane. No other Z makes it look like this, and Reality certainly isn't a bad player, he played excellent as well. But JD damn he was literally everywhere at once. Funny when he only uses 3 groups for units but somehow controls everything at once... the observer can never even keep up with everything he's doing, the camera switches and theres swarms up all of a sudden and hydras targetting specific units under it.

I love to see him use broodlings as well.. him using it basically 'legitimizes' the strategy. You know it's viable if hes doing it. He looked in control of things the entire game when anyone else would have crumbled against 4/5 base T going bio -> mech. Awesome stuff. I hope so much that he can claim this MSL... he really deserves it.

Edit: i just read his interview and he was disappointed with the game. crazy mentality he's got, he definitely didn't lose any of his hunger despite last years disappointing finals losses.

Wicelo

45 Posts

May 08 2011 00:24 GMT

#1107

how do you know that jeadong is using 3groups for units only ? are you serious ?

DarkMatter_

Canada1774 Posts

May 08 2011 00:48 GMT

#1108

On May 08 2011 09:24 Wicelo wrote:
how do you know that jeadong is using 3groups for units only ? are you serious ?

Check out some of his replays from WCG. I think he even mentioned in an interview that he has small fingers so he only uses 1-8 with 1-3 for units and the rest for hatcheries.

_Quasar_

Russian Federation4405 Posts

May 08 2011 10:21 GMT

#1109

On April 30 2011 11:05 infinity2k9 wrote:
I love to see him use broodlings as well.. him using it basically 'legitimizes' the strategy.

Haha, I thought of it exactly the same way

That if Jaedong used this, it would become an officially approved Zerg strategy.

And here it is!

BTW I'm waiting for JD, ZerO and Soulkey to bring the full power of Queen to ZvP too. I think with Zerg trend recently to play mass muta+scourge vs mass sair and get early 4th base, it would be very wise to get 1-2 Queen with ensnare very early to prevent sairs from running away from scourge. A carefully adjusted Queen timing would give Zerg much much more air control.