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[SWL] Winner League Finals KT Rolster vs SK Telecom T1 - P…

Forum Index > Brood War Tournaments
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Spica
Profile Joined December 2010
United States5582 Posts
April 09 2011 14:01 GMT
#4181
On April 09 2011 23:01 Lightwip wrote:
I'm gonna go to sleep now. If the Bisu vs Flash VOD is up when I return, I'll make a gif of it.

Huzzah \O/

I will make sure that there is plenty of Bisu in the next PL writeup then. ;D
How to pronounce the name: "SPY-ka" | Proud to share the same birthday with Shin (神) Dong Won and the almighty BoxeR | 리쌍도 나무에서 떨어진다. | To YellOw: "2位じゃダメなんですか?" ㅋㅋㅋ | Rest in peace, Violet. 08/23/12
erin[go]bragh
Profile Joined December 2008
United States815 Posts
April 09 2011 14:03 GMT
#4182
Please people, let us not attack each other over the forums, let us rejoice that BW is still kicking ass and taking names and keeping us entertained! I was pumped for all of tonights games.

Trying to get an adrenaline rush out of watching SC2 is like trying to get a hard on watching paint dry.
JulyZerg! by.hero, effOrt, KTY.
WeRRa
Profile Joined December 2010
378 Posts
April 09 2011 14:04 GMT
#4183
prob the map is imba, but in this game flash would have lost on any other map aswell.
the reason flash was not the map he just got outplayed at any point.
there was never a point in the game where u could say, wow on a other map flash would have done better.
InnoVation Fighting!!!
mustaju
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
Estonia4505 Posts
April 09 2011 14:04 GMT
#4184
*cries*
WriterBrows somewhat high. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ndFysO2JunE
Spica
Profile Joined December 2010
United States5582 Posts
April 09 2011 14:05 GMT
#4185
On April 09 2011 23:04 mustaju wrote:
*cries*

Oh mustaju, your sig rings so true right now.
How to pronounce the name: "SPY-ka" | Proud to share the same birthday with Shin (神) Dong Won and the almighty BoxeR | 리쌍도 나무에서 떨어진다. | To YellOw: "2位じゃダメなんですか?" ㅋㅋㅋ | Rest in peace, Violet. 08/23/12
doubleupgradeobbies!
Profile Blog Joined June 2008
Australia1353 Posts
April 09 2011 14:06 GMT
#4186
On April 09 2011 23:04 mustaju wrote:
*cries*

From joy that your favourite player reinforced his authority over this false god I hope
MSL, 2003-2011, RIP. OSL, 2000-2012, RIP. Proleague, 2003-2012, RIP. And then there was none... Even good things must come to an end.
]343[
Profile Blog Joined May 2008
United States10328 Posts
April 09 2011 14:07 GMT
#4187
On April 09 2011 23:04 mustaju wrote:
*cries*


there, there mustaju. wait for MSL Group D :D?
Writer
Herry
Profile Joined March 2011
England681 Posts
April 09 2011 14:07 GMT
#4188
I missed the games , anyone know where/when the vods will go up?
Legatus Lanius
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
2135 Posts
April 09 2011 14:07 GMT
#4189
On April 09 2011 23:00 hauton wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 09 2011 22:56 Womwomwom wrote:
On April 09 2011 22:51 Lightwip wrote:
On April 09 2011 22:50 ]343[ wrote:
On April 09 2011 22:49 Lightwip wrote:
On April 09 2011 22:47 ]343[ wrote:
On April 09 2011 22:41 BoldMan wrote:
lol all you guys complaining about map balance etc etc


Did you know that map imbalance *gasp* exists? And that Aztec is *gasp* 65% PvT?

Did you know that as of now, your rights to complain about Bisu whining about map imba are forfeit?
I'll agree that there's map imbalance though.


I had the right to "complain" that Bisu whines about map imba? Probably not, but I think I have the right to quote him saying "I lost due to the maps"...

To be fair, Flash pretty much said "I lost due to maps" about Bloody Ridge.


On April 09 2011 22:51 hauton wrote:
On April 09 2011 22:49 Lightwip wrote:
On April 09 2011 22:47 ]343[ wrote:
On April 09 2011 22:41 BoldMan wrote:
lol all you guys complaining about map balance etc etc


Did you know that map imbalance *gasp* exists? And that Aztec is *gasp* 65% PvT?

Did you know that as of now, your rights to complain about Bisu whining about map imba are forfeit?
I'll agree that there's map imbalance though.

I don't even begrudge Bisu beating Flash on this map.

I begrudge this map being in the rotation for THREE HUNDRED GAMES without being taken out. That's just obnoxious.

That is a reasonable sentiment. I'm simply referring to those who complain when Bisu says "map imba."


Its a shitty meme spread by awful gimmick posters. There's nothing wrong with complaining about map imba if its actually there, I think all *sensible* people agree with this and its better if progamers start bashing shitty maps so they can be taken out of rotation faster.

I'd go further: why does it take progamers complaining? What the hell is KeSPA doing aside from sitting on their ass? "300 games and Terrans are playing half as much because there's a 30% handicap across both matchups? NOT OUR PROBLEM HA HA HA"


im not saying its true, but theres always the possibility that progamers dont consider maps as imba as statistics suggest, and that it could be partially attributed to things like strong vs weak players, build order etc. not saying its necessarily the case for this map, just something to consider
"He's the Triple H of Brood War." - Ribbon on Flash | "He's more like the John Cena of Brood War." - Aus)MaCrO on Flash
gongryong
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
Korea (South)1430 Posts
April 09 2011 14:08 GMT
#4190
On April 09 2011 22:45 TYJ.Aoy wrote:
I blame it on the map more than anything, and trust me, I don't even like FlaSh( since I'm a die hard JD fan).


WTF with the scv icon then!
traitor :p
JAEDONG ÜBERBONJWA!
saint_fu
Profile Joined April 2010
Canada61 Posts
April 09 2011 14:08 GMT
#4191
On April 09 2011 23:04 WeRRa wrote:
prob the map is imba, but in this game flash would have lost on any other map aswell.
the reason flash was not the map he just got outplayed at any point.
there was never a point in the game where u could say, wow on a other map flash would have done better.


I don't think I would go as far as to say Flash would have lost on any other map. Even if Aztec is imbalanced, the fact that KT was in the position where they had to send Flash out on that map means SKT just outplayed them.
andrewlt
Profile Joined August 2009
United States7702 Posts
April 09 2011 14:08 GMT
#4192
Face it. SKT is just better prepared with builds. Fantasy abused Stork in OSL on Aztec so much that it looked like Terran imba on that map.
Bisu-Fan
Profile Joined January 2010
Russian Federation3339 Posts
April 09 2011 14:11 GMT
#4193
On April 09 2011 23:00 xarthaz wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 09 2011 22:52 JinDesu wrote:
On April 09 2011 22:49 Bisu-Fan wrote:
On April 09 2011 22:44 kuroshiroi wrote:
On April 09 2011 22:39 Murderotica wrote:
On April 09 2011 22:27 Musou wrote:
On April 09 2011 22:25 kamikami wrote:
it just showed early game that Flash couldn't catch up with Bisu multitask (attack on many places at the same time). He never got attacked like that before just because he's Terran (precisely a turtle Terran) and there was no way to use that kind of multi-harassment against him. Now Bisu just found a way to make it work and win lol.

You mean the fact that zealots are by far the strongest early game units, so if he just gets 2 to attack separate places he can basically a-move while Flash actually has to micro marines to avoid them and SCVs to block?

You clearly haven't played this game enough (hence you not knowing that Zeal micro is intense vs scv/rine and can really put you in the hole, that it slows your tech and thus makes you vulnerable to vultures or counter-pressure, etc.) and you clearly are too biased to give any credit where it's due because Bisu WAS microing and not a-moving. Please pull your head out of you know where.
Indeed. Microing Zealots is Bisu's forte, I doubt he'd even break a sweat while microing 3 at a time while making probes and stuff.

ok... i play protoss.... and i like bisu... wow huge surprise looking at my name...
i love Bisu's play style... and I love early game harass with zeals and dragoons... I do it a lot~
and i have moderate sucess with it... but then once he's done with the early game harass, he pushes out and I find out that I have 1 or 2 gateways, no multis over 1000 minerals and a terrible situation at hand~ haha i'm not good but zealot micro while base managing is sooo hard and he micro'd them so impeccably... he'd move half a hex to avoid the scvs while killing the marines


Seeing the zealots move that half a hex was pretty awesome though.

That kind of micro is quite limited with slow lots. why? They are so freaking slow, and melee. So all the scarce time must be used to keep up with the enemy, even if they too are using slow units(marines, albeit who have the kiting advantage).

it may be limited to zealots, but bisu used it crazy well... the scvs were having a hard time hitting them too
The Revolutionist Shall Rise Again! No. 1 Kim Taek Yong Fan 어헣↗ GO JAEDONG!!!!!!! GO ACE!!! 태연 <3 윤아 <3 승연 <3
mustaju
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
Estonia4505 Posts
April 09 2011 14:11 GMT
#4194
On April 09 2011 23:07 ]343[ wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 09 2011 23:04 mustaju wrote:
*cries*


there, there mustaju. wait for MSL Group D :D?

To see him knock out Jaedong too?
That will be a joyous day indeed. Because everything associated with Bisu will be joyous for the next month.
+ Show Spoiler +
Hate does not even BEGIN to describe my current state. I DARE this day to become worse.
WriterBrows somewhat high. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ndFysO2JunE
Sawamura
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
Malaysia7602 Posts
April 09 2011 14:12 GMT
#4195
F****** HELL I Came back just to see this kind of result damn you kt T_T how could you lose omg >< Cries in a corner...
BW/KT Forever R.I.P KT.Violet dearly missed ..
BLinD-RawR
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
ALLEYCAT BLUES51298 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-04-09 14:14:14
April 09 2011 14:13 GMT
#4196
On April 09 2011 23:08 gongryong wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 09 2011 22:45 TYJ.Aoy wrote:
I blame it on the map more than anything, and trust me, I don't even like FlaSh( since I'm a die hard JD fan).


WTF with the scv icon then!
traitor :p


hidden JaeJae fans.

edit:I have cried out my emotions,now I am rational and emotionless.
Brood War EICWoo Jung Ho, never forget.| Twitter: @BLinDRawR
ghrur
Profile Blog Joined May 2009
United States3786 Posts
April 09 2011 14:13 GMT
#4197
On April 09 2011 22:42 Zona wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 09 2011 22:34 ghrur wrote:
On April 09 2011 22:31 letian wrote:
On April 09 2011 22:27 Zona wrote:
Both Flash and fans were dismissing the idea that a build could get the better of Flash, but time to eat your words. 1 gate expo (before core!) with zealot pump worked perfectly to set up Bisu for a significant eco advantage midgame

finally some wise analysis I am looking for among countless empty "Bisu is so imba" posts.
I still think its not that difficult to prepare a good build when you know your enemy. And todays Bisu victory also lies on the shoulders of his teammates.


Idk, I feel that the build worked because
A. It's a reverse ramp, Rines can't just shoot from the highground
B. Flash scouted Bisu second, and so wasn't expecting so many lots from a forward-gate
C. No bunker for the hurt marines

I think if Flash scouted bisu first, he could've gone for a bunker rush and caused a gg right there. I mean, we all saw how pretty his rine micro was.

Uh, Bisu's early zealots would have made a bunker rush very difficult to pull off, and a failed bunker rush would've similarly put flash economically behind


Were Bisu's zealots early? I thought he just went the normal 1gate expo, which forward rax+bunker rush can counter as flash has shown before. It just requires SCV pulling.

Also, I think flash putting the bunker where the Sup-Depot was and then placing his next supply below the gas, but shifted 2 hexes left would've helped prevent the zealot pressure. The bunkers would shoot at the zealots while they go by, cover the depot side, help control the area around the CC, and SCVs can just block both paths zealots try to take.
darkness overpowering
Prototype
Profile Joined November 2009
Sweden56 Posts
April 09 2011 14:13 GMT
#4198
Interestingly, Flash lost trying to use Fantasy's build from the osl finals (rax fe, semi-walloff with depot and cc, early goliaths and vessels into two base timing push/contain + third) against Bisu.

Using it against an SKT player probably was not the best idea.
"Do we live to play, or do we play to live?"
Bisu-Fan
Profile Joined January 2010
Russian Federation3339 Posts
April 09 2011 14:14 GMT
#4199
On April 09 2011 23:07 Herry wrote:
I missed the games , anyone know where/when the vods will go up?

wow i kind of feel bad for you... i missed the 3 first games and felt bad for myself... but then bisu's bouncing in his seat made up for it a bit
The Revolutionist Shall Rise Again! No. 1 Kim Taek Yong Fan 어헣↗ GO JAEDONG!!!!!!! GO ACE!!! 태연 <3 윤아 <3 승연 <3
Bisu-Fan
Profile Joined January 2010
Russian Federation3339 Posts
April 09 2011 14:15 GMT
#4200
On April 09 2011 23:03 erin[go]bragh wrote:
Please people, let us not attack each other over the forums, let us rejoice that BW is still kicking ass and taking names and keeping us entertained! I was pumped for all of tonights games.

Trying to get an adrenaline rush out of watching SC2 is like trying to get a hard on watching paint dry.

HEAR HEAR wow... this is so true... SC2 is really also hard to enjoy because you don't know what's going on as much... i may be wrong and a noob to at watching sc2 so I dont' know... but yeah... BW is just such a perfect game
The Revolutionist Shall Rise Again! No. 1 Kim Taek Yong Fan 어헣↗ GO JAEDONG!!!!!!! GO ACE!!! 태연 <3 윤아 <3 승연 <3
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