For years broodwar had not been kind to its forgotten race, protoss. For years the likes of Reach,Nal_rA, Kingdom, and Anytime challenged the gods of BroodWar, and reach for the stars, punching holes in what seemed to be the unbreakable grasp of the metal lords known as terran, and the vile swarm of zerg. Flashes of brilliance, transient beauty, and moments of awe, had us convinced at times, protoss can do this, they can be dominant. But all fell short of one word....consitency. Sure protoss did well but when the finals came around, they won silver, or didn't show up. No one seemed to be able to solve the problem of how to deal with the other races, outside of quick gimmicks, capitalizing on mistakes, or just sheer luck. That was until 2005 when two protoss, broke into the top 30 kespa ranks. Quietly over two years they refined the macthup until 2007, when there [Teak Bang] era was at hand. Whispers of greatness were heard.Revolutions were held. Changing the game] forever these two would lead theyre respective mactchups to new heights.Bisu, who saw no answer changed the rules of PvZ.
Bisu in his MSL victory over Savior
Stork would solved terran, enough said, when this kid puts his cell phone down, his pvt is unparalled.
Stork in his OSl victory over Fantasy
The Taek bang era changed protoss forever, both times, these two protoss players showed us that protoss can not only just win, but keep wining. Stork would lead Samsung KHAN to victory, and Bisu would lead SK Telecom T1 to theres. They are now two of the most consistent players in brood war....And now we witness the battle for the protoss thrown!
The sky will fall, the earth shall part, and we will see who is the last toss standing + Show Spoiler +
My goodness, there are only 2 games I care about tonight - Jaedong/Midas and Bisu/Stork.
I can't pick who I want to win between Jaedong and Midas - I think I will be fairly happy with either. Midas comes from the old school class, and it'd be great to see him win a SL. However, Jaedong has been my favourite player for at least the last 1-2 years.
Hoping for a Bisu win, but only just because of all the hype that's he's "coming back".
If Jaedong doesn't win I will be a sad panda. I mean I liek teh baby bear too, but seriously I want to see a JvBisu/Stork Bo5 again. Even if the games themselves aren't awe inspiring, the tension that comes from watching giants fight is always a rush =) And the chances of sick games coming out are always higher with them :p
Go Hydra, Midas, and Bisu!! Although I don't really care who really wins in these games, I only really hope that Classic gets schooled by Hydra badly... Classic doesn't seem to belong in the Round of 16 imo. :/ And if Jaedong loses to the baby bear, that will make this MSL even more spiced up than before, ufufufuu. >:3
We shall see who the true current dominant toss is in the last match. I really hope that I don't fall asleep early/can wake up in time for these seemingly epic games. Why do we have to have another ZvZ plague us again though? (No pun intended.)
Stork vs Bisu, is this a nightmare? Its too soon.... At least let them fight on a Best of Five. Best of 3 ugh. I wish Stork summons all his power from Khala and Bisu to unleash his forces of the Void. God this feels like Adun vs Tassadar.
We must have Bisu v. Jaedong for MSL finals. Please BW gods do not deny us. If you give us this I promise to sacrifice 5 copies of SC2 and 2 goats in your honor.
Aw, animated GIF's aren't transparent. Well, this ruins my banner-designing mood. Oh well, Bisu fighting! Also, I hope Jaedong makes it. This could be a good MSL for a change.
Btw light that was a great msl post you had, i hope i didnt steal your thunder, if theres anything you want to add, feel free to tell me
No worries, I'm glad someone else wants to make this. Besides, I should probably be doing my homework soon. Although there is something I'd like to add, I'll PM it to you when it's done.
I hope Classic brings his A-game tonight, even though I wouldn't mind Hydra advancing. Jaedong needs to prove some prowess versus Terran tonight, even though Midas is just going to bunker rush him again. Great vs. Action is probably going to be one-sided in Great's favour, and the last game... Meh.
Bisuuuuuu! He totally has this, then Stork can go on and win the OSL Probably wont be able to stay up to watch this, wish nukethestars did MSL games too.
Oh dear. Now that I have work at 7am, I can't stay up at ALL to catch the BW games I'm so sad now. Hopefully, the vods will go up pretty soon, so I can catch up ASAP!!
Thanks for this thread. As a Toss fan first and foremost I love any Toss-related hype.
Really looking forward to tonight's games. I'd like JD to get back on track, and while I'm a fan of Stork, he's my second favourite player behind Bisu, so here's hoping KTY comes out of their Bo3 on top (Storkuuu can win the OSL).
i think having to face flash all last year in individual leagues and oz sucking as always has really taken its toll on JD.. i hope he wins so we don't get so many depressing interviews.
On January 06 2011 18:30 Fenrax wrote: in the replay Classics play didnt look that bad
he was doing decently, just failed to hit that crucial hanbang timing that Valkionic relies on to work. It's not really something you can transition out of easily lol..
On January 06 2011 18:34 Spica wrote: Ah replaying that Kal vs. Shine game, it deserves to be ranked #1. Beautiful game that was. Insane action happening everywhere...
I was just about to post that. Such beautiful play. Kal looks invincible.
On January 06 2011 18:30 Fenrax wrote: in the replay Classics play didnt look that bad
he was doing decently, just failed to hit that crucial hanbang timing that Valkionic relies on to work. It's not really something you can transition out of easily lol..
You can miss out on that timing and still transition pretty well into mech, i.e. Flash vs. Kwanro / Iris vs. Soulkey / Midas build.
On January 06 2011 18:37 Spica wrote: Fffff, seeing 9 Zerg and 3 Protoss going to happen soon pisses me off...
Hopefully, Bisu/Stork will go on a Zerg slaughterfest when they advance.
Well Midas Classic and Ssak are not the best terran out there..I wish for better players rather than bad players advancing just to keep terrans in the msl.
On January 06 2011 18:37 Spica wrote: Fffff, seeing 9 Zerg and 3 Protoss going to happen soon pisses me off...
Hopefully, Bisu/Stork will go on a Zerg slaughterfest when they advance.
Well Midas Classic and Ssak are not the best terran out there..I wish for better players rather than bad players advancing just to keep terrans in the msl.
I'm pretty sure he's not talking about advancing or Terran. Just unhappy that there are only 4 Protoss in Ro16 compared to 9 Zergs. I don't know though...
On January 06 2011 18:37 Spica wrote: Fffff, seeing 9 Zerg and 3 Protoss going to happen soon pisses me off...
Hopefully, Bisu/Stork will go on a Zerg slaughterfest when they advance.
Well Midas Classic and Ssak are not the best terran out there..I wish for better players rather than bad players advancing just to keep terrans in the msl.
I'm pretty sure he's not talking about advancing or Terran. Just unhappy that there are only 4 Protoss in Ro16 compared to 9 Zergs. I don't know though...
Lmao anyone remember Jaedong vs Fantasy in OSL? SAME SHIT. Got a bunker up, Jaedong has 4 drones, Jaedong keeps going lings, takes bunker with marines down. KILLER. Both games I thought JD had lost.
On January 06 2011 18:46 FabledIntegral wrote: Lmao anyone remember Jaedong vs Fantasy in OSL? SAME SHIT. Got a bunker up, Jaedong has 4 drones, Jaedong keeps going lings, takes bunker with marines down. KILLER. Both games I thought JD had lost.
Dude I so thought about that. lolol SCVs still imba though.
On January 06 2011 18:46 FabledIntegral wrote: Lmao anyone remember Jaedong vs Fantasy in OSL? SAME SHIT. Got a bunker up, Jaedong has 4 drones, Jaedong keeps going lings, takes bunker with marines down. KILLER. Both games I thought JD had lost.
Indeed, so baller so baller
This is the first time I've seen an offensive Drone rush ZvT without it being a counter, sick sick play from JD, I can't believe he won after midas got the bunker up.
ok that was sweet of jaedong to pull that off, but seriously, all midas had to do was just block that rush by maybe putting just a few of his scvs in the spaces between the bunker and barracks so there would be no runbys.
even after the lings entered, midas should have surrounded the bunker with like 2-3 scvs to make sure a zergling surround would be harder.
i think it was due to midas' bad decision making that jaedong won the game
Midas is an absolute dumbass. That was a won game.
1) He could've brought SCV's much much earlier. 2) Why did he let his bunker get surrounded?
Jesus christ it's almost as if all terrans except for Flash have forgotten how to defend against early rushes (including 2 hatch lurker). Terrans have been sucking so hard recently and need to pull their heads out of their asses.
ok seeing the replay, midas really should have done something about blocking the second wave of lings after getting his scvs to see it. what was he doing? kind of foolish to think that jaedong wouldnt think of a runby
Jump on me,but JD,s ling micro was very bad in the first attack.He could have finished the game on the spot there if he didn't lose like 6 lings killing 1 scv with them... Anyway the hole game i was laughing this was hilarious!
Way to nearly give me a heart attack there Jaedong. Thought he had lost that for sure after the bunker held and he lost all the initial lings and drones. Lots of SCVs must have been on really low health after that though, they did very quickly in the second wave.
On January 06 2011 18:51 Givos wrote: Midas is an absolute dumbass. That was a won game.
1) He could've brought SCV's much much earlier. 2) Why did he let his bunker get surrounded?
Jesus christ it's almost as if all terrans except for Flash have forgotten how to defend against early rushes (including 2 hatch lurker). Terrans have been sucking so hard recently and need to pull their heads out of their asses.
Same thing happened vs. Fantasy...I think building next to bunker (which lessens surface area for lings) seems to hurt terran... o_O
On January 06 2011 18:51 thestool91 wrote: ok seeing the replay, midas really should have done something about blocking the second wave of lings after getting his scvs to see it. what was he doing? kind of foolish to think that jaedong wouldnt think of a runby
It was a pretty good fake on Jaedong's part. It looked like he was going to go for the marine/bunker so scvs got pulled around to repair, taking the route above the bunker/rax.
On January 06 2011 18:51 thestool91 wrote: ok seeing the replay, midas really should have done something about blocking the second wave of lings after getting his scvs to see it. what was he doing? kind of foolish to think that jaedong wouldnt think of a runby
Sea made the same mistake against Shine I think. There's not a single terran to really look up to these days. I think the only players I've been impressed with recently are Hydra and Stork.
Jaedong really has balls of steel, but he loses that game if Midas had the sense of mind to simply put some SCV in the hole between bunker and rax. He even scouted the additional lings coming in, but simply didn't respond at all. Doubt this would work vs Flash
On January 06 2011 18:51 Givos wrote: Midas is an absolute dumbass. That was a won game.
1) He could've brought SCV's much much earlier. 2) Why did he let his bunker get surrounded?
Jesus christ it's almost as if all terrans except for Flash have forgotten how to defend against early rushes (including 2 hatch lurker). Terrans have been sucking so hard recently and need to pull their heads out of their asses.
Agree. He knew exaclyt the amount of lings JD had in Terran main, and he saw the lings in front of his nat. Even a D- player would guess a surround on the bunker. He had a decent nr of SCV so I would have put a few round it for the inevitable attack.
On January 06 2011 18:51 Givos wrote: Midas is an absolute dumbass. That was a won game.
1) He could've brought SCV's much much earlier. 2) Why did he let his bunker get surrounded?
Jesus christ it's almost as if all terrans except for Flash have forgotten how to defend against early rushes (including 2 hatch lurker). Terrans have been sucking so hard recently and need to pull their heads out of their asses.
i agree with the part where midas did not defend well, and guys dont start saying im not a pro so i should shut up. midas should have pulled the scvs because his scouting scv SAW THE SECOND WAVE OF ZERGLINGS coming. what was he doing just not giving a shit about a very probable runby? the lings then go in, obviously theres going to be an attempted surround, and midas should have been more defensive because he knew jaedong had all those lings. this game was fun to watch but it was painful to watch on midas' behalf.
On January 06 2011 18:52 Magus wrote: That was the greatest game of Starcraft I have seen in my life. That was amazing.
Jaedong Hwaiting!
Call me a hater, but I thought that was awful. It was creative play from JD, but I wouldn't say it was a brilliant game. Midas just failed hard though. Sometimes I question how Midas has such a good win rate when he plays like that.
On January 06 2011 18:51 Teogamer wrote: I think we should all thank Jaedong for considering us foreigners' bedtimes. All we got left is a quick ZvZ and then...
STORK VS BISU
Lolz, hopefully it'll be quick!
Oh pleasepleaseplease don't let either one go to hive tech...
Jd had a lot of things go right for him in the early game which made the feasible. Correct scouting ol and close positions were a must. Definitely something JD had thought about but not planned to do
On January 06 2011 18:51 mdb wrote: I missed the game. What happened?
Lucky overlord scout saw 14cc, drone rushed midas, delaying his rax a bit and killing his first 2 marines + some scvs.
Once drones died, bunker went up, but only 2 marines in there. first wave of lings ran by into the main and destroyed it, and then came back from behind while a 2nd wave attacked the nat from the front. Bunker was destroyed. gg.
On January 06 2011 18:52 lastreason wrote: omg , jaedong is really angry at life , amazing victory ........... i don't know how he kept confident after initial fail
Not sure it actually was confidence. Could just as easily be despair as he really had to finish the game right there to have a chance. He probably realises how lucky he got
On January 06 2011 18:52 Magus wrote: That was the greatest game of Starcraft I have seen in my life. That was amazing.
Jaedong Hwaiting!
Call me a hater, but I thought that was awful. It was creative play from JD, but I wouldn't say it was a brilliant game. Midas just failed hard though. Sometimes I question how Midas has such a good win rate when he plays like that.
I agree, it's honestly depressing that people are blown away by something like this
Did JD not KNOW about this strategy/tactic in the OSL and MSL finals? I dont see how T can defend it, he had no Marines. So is that a safe counter?
no, it's not
Jaedong pulled out PERFECT drone micro, he still lost many. Midas failed to repair his bunker early enough.
Midas was practically ahead.
This game shows how AWESOME JD is, not how awesome drone rush is
I think that Midas microed pretty well. He kept the single Marine alive way longer than he was supposed to. I think this might be a viable counter, like the Terran Bunker rush to Toss Nexus first.
I think if Midas had lifted his main CC at the same time as he retreated his last SCVs to his expo and left the Depots to die, he could have used it to block off at least one side of the Bunker.
On January 06 2011 18:52 Magus wrote: That was the greatest game of Starcraft I have seen in my life. That was amazing.
Jaedong Hwaiting!
Call me a hater, but I thought that was awful. It was creative play from JD, but I wouldn't say it was a brilliant game. Midas just failed hard though. Sometimes I question how Midas has such a good win rate when he plays like that.
I agree, it's honestly depressing that people are blown away by something like this
On January 06 2011 18:56 GeLaar wrote: I think if Midas had lifted his main CC at the same time as he retreated his last SCVs to his expo and left the Depots to die, he could have used it to block off at least one side of the Bunker.
CC wouldn't have had time to float to the nat and land. Leaving it in the main bought him a bit of time.
On January 06 2011 18:52 Magus wrote: That was the greatest game of Starcraft I have seen in my life. That was amazing.
Jaedong Hwaiting!
Call me a hater, but I thought that was awful. It was creative play from JD, but I wouldn't say it was a brilliant game. Midas just failed hard though. Sometimes I question how Midas has such a good win rate when he plays like that.
I agree, it's honestly depressing that people are blown away by something like this
So glad I'm not alone here...
Well, I'm blown away by Jaedongs insanity/balls to pull a move like this. I doubt we will ever see it used succesfully again though as his rush basically failed
On January 06 2011 18:56 GeLaar wrote: I think if Midas had lifted his main CC at the same time as he retreated his last SCVs to his expo and left the Depots to die, he could have used it to block off at least one side of the Bunker.
CC wouldn't have had time to float to the nat and land. Leaving it in the main bought him a bit of time.
No need for the CC even. A 2nd bunker or just clogging the holes with SCV when he sees 2nd round of lings incoming would probably hold it off
People seem really confused about JD's build order. It was 12 hatch 11 pool. He was pumping lings from 2 hatches. The point where he pulled his drones for the drone rush is around the time where zerg might get a 3rd hatch so thats probably how he had enough minerals to support ling production from 2 hatcheries despite only having 4 drones mining.
Also, I'm not sure why people think Midas had it. Even after that bunker went up, he wasn't in that great of a position considering he only had about 1 marine, and lings were easily able to sneak into the main and take out both his supply depots. I think building those depots in the main, instead of having building them at the natural for a wall-in, cost him the game.
On January 06 2011 18:56 usopsama wrote: A player like Flash would probably have threw down a second bunker just to be safe.
he would also build 108 turrets in one game
Say whatever you want,but i'm sure Flash would have won that.He has so many clutch defenses with terran,that he probably would have defended this without any difficulty.Especially after JD's bad initial ling micro .
On January 06 2011 18:52 Magus wrote: That was the greatest game of Starcraft I have seen in my life. That was amazing.
Jaedong Hwaiting!
Call me a hater, but I thought that was awful. It was creative play from JD, but I wouldn't say it was a brilliant game. Midas just failed hard though. Sometimes I question how Midas has such a good win rate when he plays like that.
I agree, it's honestly depressing that people are blown away by something like this
So glad I'm not alone here...
third. the first thing i thought when jaedong won was "i hope im not the only one on teamliquid who thinks midas failed hard and jaedong won because of it"
On January 06 2011 18:51 Givos wrote: Midas is an absolute dumbass. That was a won game.
1) He could've brought SCV's much much earlier. 2) Why did he let his bunker get surrounded?
Jesus christ it's almost as if all terrans except for Flash have forgotten how to defend against early rushes (including 2 hatch lurker). Terrans have been sucking so hard recently and need to pull their heads out of their asses.
i agree with the part where midas did not defend well, and guys dont start saying im not a pro so i should shut up. midas should have pulled the scvs because his scouting scv SAW THE SECOND WAVE OF ZERGLINGS coming. what was he doing just not giving a shit about a very probable runby? the lings then go in, obviously theres going to be an attempted surround, and midas should have been more defensive because he knew jaedong had all those lings. this game was fun to watch but it was painful to watch on midas' behalf.
i agree, Jaedong was brilliant but he was way behind after his first 6 lings died. All Midas had to do was to prevent the run-by OR repair the bunker by lifting his CC
the cheese was executed perfectly but sadly 60 HP SCVs required Terran player to make a mistake in order to lose.
On January 06 2011 18:56 usopsama wrote: A player like Flash would probably have threw down a second bunker just to be safe.
he would also build 108 turrets in one game
Say whatever you want,but i'm sure Flash would have won that.He has so many clutch defenses with terran,that he probably would have defended this without any difficulty.Especially after JD's bad initial ling micro .
Light, Flash, and maybe Fantasy would've defended that. Honestly, JD got lucky that Midas didn't do that well.
On January 06 2011 18:56 usopsama wrote: A player like Flash would probably have threw down a second bunker just to be safe.
he would also build 108 turrets in one game
Say whatever you want,but i'm sure Flash would have won that.He has so many clutch defenses with terran,that he probably would have defended this without any difficulty.Especially after JD's bad initial ling micro .
Light, Flash, and maybe Fantasy would've defended that. Honestly, JD got lucky that Midas didn't do that well.
eh, not so sure about light seeing how he lost that game on polaris ...
On January 06 2011 18:52 Magus wrote: That was the greatest game of Starcraft I have seen in my life. That was amazing.
Jaedong Hwaiting!
Call me a hater, but I thought that was awful. It was creative play from JD, but I wouldn't say it was a brilliant game. Midas just failed hard though. Sometimes I question how Midas has such a good win rate when he plays like that.
His SCV micro in the first engagement after the lings arrived was impressive. I doubt Midas has much practice in situations like that. Under duress, a small mistake is easy to make. Jaedong also played impeccably. His decision making and micro were pretty much faultless. Saying Midas played badly isn't wholly accurate, though there was a mistake probably derived from misplaced confidence. Saying Midas lost himself the game doesn't give enough credit to Jaedong, who played great.
There's also the issue of entertainment value as opposed to perfect play. I like to see people playing perfect Starcraft as much as anyone, but I feel that a lot of fans let mistakes take away from their enjoyment of a game. I put more stock in a tight and exciting game than one played with no mistakes. That was a great game to watch.
On January 06 2011 18:56 usopsama wrote: A player like Flash would probably have threw down a second bunker just to be safe.
he would also build 108 turrets in one game
Say whatever you want,but i'm sure Flash would have won that.He has so many clutch defenses with terran,that he probably would have defended this without any difficulty.Especially after JD's bad initial ling micro .
1 crucial thing Flash does differently with his 14cc openings is that he walls off with the supply depots so the ling follow-up we saw after that couldn't have possibly worked.
On January 06 2011 18:56 usopsama wrote: A player like Flash would probably have threw down a second bunker just to be safe.
he would also build 108 turrets in one game
Say whatever you want,but i'm sure Flash would have won that.He has so many clutch defenses with terran,that he probably would have defended this without any difficulty.Especially after JD's bad initial ling micro .
Light, Flash, and maybe Fantasy would've defended that. Honestly, JD got lucky that Midas didn't do that well.
eh, not so sure about light seeing how he lost that game on polaris ...
He defended that last all-in that JD did pretty well. Also JD isn't as good as he was before MSL finals.
On January 06 2011 18:51 zmeqt wrote: Jump on me,but JD,s ling micro was very bad in the first attack.He could have finished the game on the spot there if he didn't lose like 6 lings killing 1 scv with them... Anyway the hole game i was laughing this was hilarious!
I don't think JD micro was bad, SCV is a strong unit when they surround, so I think JD did all he could to micro, Midas should have had 2 scv's near bunker for repair, so this cost him a game, I like how JD uses any opportunity to win, this what makes a good player
On January 06 2011 18:59 DarkMatter_ wrote: Also, I'm not sure why people think Midas had it. Even after that bunker went up, he wasn't in that great of a position considering he only had about 1 marine, and lings were easily able to sneak into the main and take out both his supply depots. I think building those depots in the main, instead of having building them at the natural for a wall-in, cost him the game.
You really don't think Midas was in a great position after bunker went up? Jaedong has like 3 or 4 drones mining. Midas had like 10+ scvs and secured 2 base against unsaturated Zerg 2 base.
Even the korean commentators kept talking about how JD cannot come back, he needs to attack now
Really some people are overreacting.The second game was not good at all i think.Yeah surprising and unexpected,probably worth watching,but not good.Both players failed pretty hard.
Great: "If Action doesn't wanna see ultralisks in his base... He better GG quickly today." Action: "Great thinks that he's so awesome at ZvZ and all that hot stuff. We'll see who'll be the last one laughing here today."
On January 06 2011 18:59 DarkMatter_ wrote: Also, I'm not sure why people think Midas had it. Even after that bunker went up, he wasn't in that great of a position considering he only had about 1 marine, and lings were easily able to sneak into the main and take out both his supply depots. I think building those depots in the main, instead of having building them at the natural for a wall-in, cost him the game.
You really don't think Midas was in a great position after bunker went up? Jaedong has like 3 or 4 drones mining. Midas had like 10+ scvs and secured 2 base against unsaturated Zerg 2 base.
Even the korean commentators kept talking about how JD cannot come back, he needs to attack now
midas definitely had the advantage for sure after he blocked the first wave well. had midas played more defensively, he would have won. but oh well. its always the ifs......
It wasn't an amazing game so to speak but it is definitely worth watching. I wouldn't call 5-minute-long games "amazing", this is not what I watch SC:BW for.
On January 06 2011 18:56 usopsama wrote: A player like Flash would probably have threw down a second bunker just to be safe.
he would also build 108 turrets in one game
Say whatever you want,but i'm sure Flash would have won that.He has so many clutch defenses with terran,that he probably would have defended this without any difficulty.Especially after JD's bad initial ling micro .
Like he did against Effort? I'm not trolling, mind you. Just saying.
On January 06 2011 18:56 usopsama wrote: A player like Flash would probably have threw down a second bunker just to be safe.
he would also build 108 turrets in one game
Say whatever you want,but i'm sure Flash would have won that.He has so many clutch defenses with terran,that he probably would have defended this without any difficulty.Especially after JD's bad initial ling micro .
Like he did against Effort? I'm not trolling, mind you. Just saying.
Anyway, BISU-STORK. STORK-BISU. STOBSU. BORK. =D
Funny that i was a big Effort fan and this game totally made my day,but that's the only bad defence i can think of from Flash.And i can think of ALOT of clutch ones like against Snow on Destination or against Huyk in the Proleague final and more...
On January 06 2011 18:56 usopsama wrote: A player like Flash would probably have threw down a second bunker just to be safe.
he would also build 108 turrets in one game
Say whatever you want,but i'm sure Flash would have won that.He has so many clutch defenses with terran,that he probably would have defended this without any difficulty.Especially after JD's bad initial ling micro .
Like he did against Effort? I'm not trolling, mind you. Just saying.
Anyway, BISU-STORK. STORK-BISU. STOBSU. BORK. =D
Yeah, people act as if Flash hasn't failed on numerous occasions to early aggression in the dumbest ways
For example, Effort vs. Flash Set 5 Korean Air OSL Season 1 Jaedong vs. Flash Set 3 WCG Korea 2010 Jaedong vs. Flash Set 4 Bigfile MSL Jaedong vs. Flash Set 2 Korean Air OSL Season 2
This game has rolled around a lot quicker than I expected this evening. Can't believe it's about to start after waiting for the recent mini-break to end.
The only think I don't like about Stork winning is that KT fans enjoy it. Oh well, we'll see how it ends when the Bo3 is finished. I can't be upset about Stork if he wins this unless he manages to lose in a horrible fashion in the next round. It really came down to that reaver snipe at the end imo.
On January 06 2011 19:45 endy wrote: What's the result of Action vs Great ? I'm at office, lazy to go through the live report and OP is not updated. Thanks.
On January 06 2011 19:45 endy wrote: What's the result of Action vs Great ? I'm at office, lazy to go through the live report and OP is not updated. Thanks.
On January 06 2011 19:45 endy wrote: What's the result of Action vs Great ? I'm at office, lazy to go through the live report and OP is not updated. Thanks.
On January 06 2011 19:45 endy wrote: What's the result of Action vs Great ? I'm at office, lazy to go through the live report and OP is not updated. Thanks.
On January 06 2011 19:42 disciple wrote: how stork had double the bisu's army - I just dont know
earlier expand I think
yup, it's definitely because of the early expansion. the moment stork didn't gg in bisu's reaver harrass, i know bisu would lose -- bisu only expanded after his harrassment.
This reminds me a lot of that IEF game that Bisu and Stork played where Bisu did damage with his reaver then lost. Hopefully it'll also be the same in that Bisu will win the next 2 sets.
On January 06 2011 19:45 endy wrote: What's the result of Action vs Great ? I'm at office, lazy to go through the live report and OP is not updated. Thanks.
Great outplays Action.
Nice, that means I'm 4/4 for the first match of the bo3 ! Looks good !
On January 06 2011 19:46 Spica wrote: Well played Stork- Bisu made too many mistakes with his control there, along with not being as greedy as you.
If it's Stork that beats the Beesuit, then that's fine! We'll see who prevails next week though... ;P Congrats to the Dinotoss!
totally agree on this! good thing stork is my 2nd favorite protoss! but stork, please give this msl to bisu, you have osl anyway, don't be greedy lol... i hope bisu will come back next week, we'll see who's the best protoss then.
Thanks Fedor for streaming; Bisu and Stork's game epically delivered as always, definitely game of the night today.
And even if Stork beats Bisu, I'm just happy that we still have a skilled Protoss player in this MSL. Waaay too many zergs in this MSL for their own good. Do we really wanna see another ZvZ final again? :|
It's gonna be depressing for me if Bisu loses this Bo3 since he's had a bunch of times where he was one series win away from playing a league full of Zergs all the rest of the way =\
I always like when Stork wins but this time I still think its not a good thing. I like Bisu aswell and bisu and stork is the protoss power now. I dont think STork can manage both MSL and OSL and going far in both might actually lose him both and that would be so sad when he has such a good chance. Bisu is stronger vs Zerg and there are alot of those in MSL. Stork is pvt god and have a great chance of getting terrans in osl.
I hope that Bisu turns this around so that Stork can focus 100% on OSL and Bisu on MSL.
Epic though that Stork do beat Bisu when he have had alot of time to focus only on stork, while stork also had to put focus on Hiya in the OSL bo3.
Am watching jd vs midas now because the video is the first up and i just got to the point where jd scouts midas' 14cc Just insanely awesome Ahaha JD played so well considering the circumstances
On January 06 2011 21:50 purpose wrote: I always like when Stork wins but this time I still think its not a good thing. I like Bisu aswell and bisu and stork is the protoss power now. I dont think STork can manage both MSL and OSL and going far in both might actually lose him both and that would be so sad when he has such a good chance. Bisu is stronger vs Zerg and there are alot of those in MSL. Stork is pvt god and have a great chance of getting terrans in osl.
I hope that Bisu turns this around so that Stork can focus 100% on OSL and Bisu on MSL.
Epic though that Stork do beat Bisu when he have had alot of time to focus only on stork, while stork also had to put focus on Hiya in the OSL bo3.
Well look at it this way. If Stork wins both this OSL and MSL, he will become the greatest protoss player ever. His Bo5 against Jaedong in the last OSL was really close so if he practices very hard, he is more than capable of beating all the other zergs on the way to the MSL final. I don't think he will push one tournament aside for the other. He will probably ditch proleague practice for the starleagues. Khan are doing sufficiently well in the proleague for him to do this.
On January 06 2011 21:50 purpose wrote: I always like when Stork wins but this time I still think its not a good thing. I like Bisu aswell and bisu and stork is the protoss power now. I dont think STork can manage both MSL and OSL and going far in both might actually lose him both and that would be so sad when he has such a good chance. Bisu is stronger vs Zerg and there are alot of those in MSL. Stork is pvt god and have a great chance of getting terrans in osl.
I hope that Bisu turns this around so that Stork can focus 100% on OSL and Bisu on MSL.
Epic though that Stork do beat Bisu when he have had alot of time to focus only on stork, while stork also had to put focus on Hiya in the OSL bo3.
Well look at it this way. If Stork wins both this OSL and MSL, he will become the greatest protoss player ever. His Bo5 against Jaedong in the last OSL was really close so if he practices very hard, he is more than capable of beating all the other zergs on the way to the MSL final. I don't think he will push one tournament aside for the other. He will probably ditch proleague practice for the starleagues. Khan are doing sufficiently well in the proleague for him to do this.
Well, he did ditch MSL quarterfinal with Kal to practice for Incruit OSL final , so it's not that unlikely. The one difference is that now the leagues are closer to each other, but I still can see Stork choosing not to prepare for MSL semi and focus on OSL final.
On January 06 2011 23:32 composition wrote: losing 2-3 to one of the dragons is not "ditching" MSL.
He spoke in his interview that he basically practiced only for the OSL(I think this was the semi against Best). The fact that he still only lose 2-3 to Kal simply showed how awesome his PvP was at the time.
On January 06 2011 18:56 usopsama wrote: A player like Flash would probably have threw down a second bunker just to be safe.
he would also build 108 turrets in one game
Say whatever you want,but i'm sure Flash would have won that.He has so many clutch defenses with terran,that he probably would have defended this without any difficulty.Especially after JD's bad initial ling micro .
1 crucial thing Flash does differently with his 14cc openings is that he walls off with the supply depots so the ling follow-up we saw after that couldn't have possibly worked.
Kinda like how he did vs. Effort in the OSL finals game 5?
On January 06 2011 18:56 usopsama wrote: A player like Flash would probably have threw down a second bunker just to be safe.
he would also build 108 turrets in one game
Say whatever you want,but i'm sure Flash would have won that.He has so many clutch defenses with terran,that he probably would have defended this without any difficulty.Especially after JD's bad initial ling micro .
Light, Flash, and maybe Fantasy would've defended that. Honestly, JD got lucky that Midas didn't do that well.
I seem to remember Jaedong beating Fantasy in almost the exact same way, minus the drone attack.
Only FlaSh and Light would have been able to repel Jaedong's rush; FanTaSy has fallen to a similar rush before when playing against Jaedong and no other player can really match FlaSh and Light's TvZ prowess, particularly against a player like Jaedong.
If Bisu loses to Stork here, then this MSL belongs to Jaedong. Stork is a great player, but Stork + Finals + vJaedong = Jaedong (finally) acquiring his Golden Badge.
On January 07 2011 03:26 MuffinDude wrote: Who did op? Not doing recommended games or anything.
And isn't it MSL ro16? Not MSL ro16 day 1? So whats up with people announcing their liquibet result when its not finalized yet.
Recommended games Game 1: A typical (not) macro TvZ. Watch if you have time Game 2: Entertaining game indeed. It is worth watching the game. Game 3: ZvZ what do you expect at least the winner showed great micro. Game 4: Def watch it.
It is MSL ro16 day 1. But many people prematurely think that all the winners today will advance to ro8 w/ 2-0 or 2-1.
On January 07 2011 05:05 HitoriTomoyo wrote: Only FlaSh and Light would have been able to repel Jaedong's rush; FanTaSy has fallen to a similar rush before when playing against Jaedong and no other player can really match FlaSh and Light's TvZ prowess, particularly against a player like Jaedong.
If Bisu loses to Stork here, then this MSL belongs to Jaedong. Stork is a great player, but Stork + Finals + vJaedong = Jaedong (finally) acquiring his Golden Badge.
Agreed. I like Stork but Bisu's the only one with a shot at beating JD in this MSL. If Stork beats Bisu he'll just lose to JD in the finals.
On January 07 2011 05:17 G.K. wrote: It is MSL ro16 day 1. But many people prematurely think that all the winners today will advance to ro8 w/ 2-0 or 2-1.
The problem is that the winner of today rides a decent momentum going into Day Two, which presents a slight mental advantage for today's winners (though the advantage is only very slight to begin with). There are exceptions at times obviously (for example, if Midas has won today, Jaedong would have most likely turned it around easily in Day Two), but for two players that are equally matched, any advantage, no matter how miniscule, can keep the series in their favour.
Mostly referring to Stork vs Bisu here.
On January 07 2011 05:19 Slow Motion wrote: Agreed. I like Stork but Bisu's the only one with a shot at beating JD in this MSL. If Stork beats Bisu he'll just lose to JD in the finals.
IIRC, there hasn't been a (seriously) competitive BoX series involving Stork and Jaedong where Stork has emerged victorious. Stork came close in Korean Air S2, but Jaedong is just too good in BoX series games, especially when he's facing a Protoss.
No way man, BoX doesn't have any particular significance outside of the psychological. Stork is just as good of a BoX player as Jaedong is. I think the SvJ record speaks for itself in terms of how good Stork is.
How can you say that when Stork has lost every significant finals series besides the one vs. Fantasy? Before Jaedong started losing to Flash he was easily considered the best Bo5 player ever.
Stork traditionally does much better against Jaedong than other zergs. With bo5 starting next round, if Stork advances it will be interesting to see how he plays against another zerg in that format (if he even plays against zerg). While he has undoubtedly improved his PvZ, I still cannot say Stork is the easy favorite to go to the finals on his side of the bracket.
Ahahaha, just watched the game between JD and Midas, and I went O____O when I saw him pulling the drones. JD is so cool. :D And I'm happy that Stork won as well in a pretty entertaining game. JD vs Stork in the finals, gogo!
Ok so could someone who understand this game better then me explain the bisu vs stork game?
Stork goes for faster expo and bisu goes for faster harass. He takes out 12 probes but it still seem that stork came out on top. Seem easier to go fast expo then since you can lose 12 probes and still be ahead.
After that I have one question? At the big battle in the end, how did stork came out on top? He attack in a really bad possition. BIsu had a good hold and stork had to move over 2 bridges that got alot of his army stuck and out of action. Was it only due to the storms and more zeals that won him that battle?
Asl for MSL and OSL, If stork beat Bisu I dont think he will even reach the final. STork is good as shit but I still think the best thing that can happen is that he lose to Bisu. It sounds strange I know but STork cant handle bo5 in both MSL and OSL at the same time, since Khan also want him to practice for WL and SPL. Impossible.
But first stork need to take one more game vs hiya tomorrow.
Pretty much, whoever wins next week between Stork and Bisu should go to the finals. Unless one of them chokes.
If they meet Jaedong in the finals, I think Bisu has a much better shot at beating Jaedong than Stork does. It also doesn't help that I'm a Bisu fanboy, but in all honesty can anyone seriously predict that Stork has a good chance against Jaedong in the finals? If it was Flash then I'd probably be more okay with Stork winning as then it'd make sense for Stork to go to the finals.
I just don't want Stork to beat Bisu just so we can have another JD MSL. So fucking boring. Since I think Stork pretty much has the OSL finals down I'd rather see a double Protoss Starleague. Here's to hoping that Bisu can play two amazing games next week.
@purpose, Bisu killed a lot of probes, yeah. But Stork had a bigger army and then basically killed all of Bisu's army. So it was probably about even with Stork in a slightly better position as his army was bigger and Bisu had to completely rebuild his. The big battle at the middle went bad for Bisu because Stork got HTs out and pushed before Bisu had them. Had Stork not gotten the fast HTs I think that Bisu likely could've won especially with that third expo.
On January 07 2011 07:02 Kenpachi wrote: 4/4 LB fuck yea
The MSL RO16 LB isn't over, it's a BO3 match while the OSL RO8 LB seems to be split up into two. Anybody know the reasons?
The Hydra vs. Classic game was pretty darn awesome for a ZvT, offensive guardians at the absolutely right time, lurkers at the right place at the right time, valkyries, defiler snipe. Hydra has very impressive play. Classic looked downright confused at the end.
On January 07 2011 06:03 purpose wrote: Ok so could someone who understand this game better then me explain the bisu vs stork game?
Stork goes for faster expo and bisu goes for faster harass. He takes out 12 probes but it still seem that stork came out on top. Seem easier to go fast expo then since you can lose 12 probes and still be ahead.
After that I have one question? At the big battle in the end, how did stork came out on top? He attack in a really bad possition. BIsu had a good hold and stork had to move over 2 bridges that got alot of his army stuck and out of action. Was it only due to the storms and more zeals that won him that battle?
Asl for MSL and OSL, If stork beat Bisu I dont think he will even reach the final. STork is good as shit but I still think the best thing that can happen is that he lose to Bisu. It sounds strange I know but STork cant handle bo5 in both MSL and OSL at the same time, since Khan also want him to practice for WL and SPL. Impossible.
But first stork need to take one more game vs hiya tomorrow.
On January 07 2011 06:03 purpose wrote: Ok so could someone who understand this game better then me explain the bisu vs stork game?
Stork goes for faster expo and bisu goes for faster harass. He takes out 12 probes but it still seem that stork came out on top. Seem easier to go fast expo then since you can lose 12 probes and still be ahead.
After that I have one question? At the big battle in the end, how did stork came out on top? He attack in a really bad possition. BIsu had a good hold and stork had to move over 2 bridges that got alot of his army stuck and out of action. Was it only due to the storms and more zeals that won him that battle?
Stork's macro was just too good and yes, those storms perfectly softened up his army AND he sniped that shuttle with two reavers, putting him at an even greater advantage, since stork's reavers were wreaking havoc on his stormed troops.
I really REALLY hope Bisu takes the next 2. While I love Stork, being #2 to me in many ways, I want Bisu to win the MSL. Stork is obviously the favorite in OSL... comon already, give us JD vs Bisu finals for MSL.
On January 07 2011 06:03 purpose wrote: Ok so could someone who understand this game better then me explain the bisu vs stork game?
Stork goes for faster expo and bisu goes for faster harass. He takes out 12 probes but it still seem that stork came out on top. Seem easier to go fast expo then since you can lose 12 probes and still be ahead.
After that I have one question? At the big battle in the end, how did stork came out on top? He attack in a really bad possition. BIsu had a good hold and stork had to move over 2 bridges that got alot of his army stuck and out of action. Was it only due to the storms and more zeals that won him that battle?
Stork mentioned that Bisu's mineral patch was 150 more than Stork's, which meant that Stork mined a lot more than Bisu. Maybe not ~1000 more(pulled main probes faster), but probably more than offset the probe losses. It was a very large map, and Bisu cut probes heavily to get his speed-reaver out quickly. So take into all that, it seemed Bisu's harass wasn't as effective as it looked. Plus his half-dead shuttle was less useful in future battles.
Stork also won the first minor skirmish with like 5 more goons. Plus his tech was faster, even if it wasn't by alot: zealot production, zealot speed, and storm. Stork also added more gateways(further proof that Bisu must've really cut probes early in the game). So yes, Stork indeed attacked from a bad position map wise. But he was hitting the timing window when Bisu had no speedlots/HTs. So Stork had great army size AND better army composition.
I really wish MSL provide food counters to the games. It's much easier to see who has the advantage.
Aside from Bisu vs. Stork, I highly recommend Hydra vs. Classic. Hydra played very impressively, dealing with the initial valkyries well then countering the mech transition PERFECTLY. The guardians at the end were pure genius.
On January 08 2011 04:42 Jstor wrote: Will the drone rush ever be a reliable counter to 14CC?
I can see this as the same thing that happened to terran bunker rush vs toss 14 nex
No it won't. Jaedong said he did it because he saw how the rax was positioned badly to where marines have to walk around or something to that sort. Don't think it'll ever become a hardcounter though lol.
EPT
Day 1![[image loading]](http://img227.imageshack.us/img227/5526/pdpoparticlebannernewco.png)
Classic
Bisu < Benzene > ![[image loading]](http://files.myopera.com/kyon91/albums/774898/bisu-msl-win.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://www.mymym.com/gfx/Stork%20wins%20InCruit%20OSL1.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://www.mymym.com/tn/gfx/bisu_stork_fomos_1.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://imgur.com/8MULJ.png)
![[image loading]](http://www.teamliquid.net/staff/disciple/PDpop/PDpoparticlebannernew_copy.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/MPxq6.png)
![[image loading]](http://imgur.com/4hUwC.png)
.![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/UAsht.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/6Bhcl.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y37/UsopSama/873d0084.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y37/UsopSama/koreansc/25a3140f.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://imgur.com/S8Rbl.png)
![[image loading]](http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y37/UsopSama/9275abac.jpg)
but it's not over yet.
![[image loading]](http://img408.imageshack.us/img408/4029/10203437.gif)
![[image loading]](http://img146.imageshack.us/img146/133/94260589.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://img510.imageshack.us/img510/4986/37857103.jpg)
