SKT is doing better than ever, but I have no idea how Entus is doing right now. They just came off of a win from OZ, but their two stars, Snow and Leta, are quite unpredictable in their success rate. This can either be a close game or horribly one-sided, but Entus honestly lacks a good ace for this scenario. I just hope Best is better and some of the supporting SKT members feel like playing well. Bisu > Hydra Kwanro < HoGiL BeSt > Leta Fantasy < Snow Hyuk < sKyHigh s2 > Horang2 Bisu > Leta
Set 1: s2 <Fortress> sKyHigh Set 2: n.Die_soO <Benzene> Hydra Set 3: Fantasy <Grand Line SE> Movie Set 4: By.Sun <Empire of the Sun> Leta Set 5: <Aztec> Set 6: <Icarus> Set 7: <Circuit Breaker>
On December 12 2010 12:46 GeLaar wrote: vs ACE would've been more interesting, but at least SKT is playing...
yeah this
i didnt see ACE vs SKT thread so i copied off this, then i realised it's the same date, so i returned here and checked number of pages then i went like.. "Oh."
On December 12 2010 12:51 mishimaBeef wrote: i thought ace was garbagio? isn't this a better match?
ACE vs SKT has always been epic yo, watcha talking about!?
Plus ACE is actually quite awesome now. When they actually do play each other, I sure hope SKT is gonna show their strength and not underestimate ACE like the last two teams...
I just hope the teams knew about the changed schedule sooner than we found out. It'd be pretty funny if they'd yanked the entire Khan team out of bed like two hours before the game. Hah...
On December 12 2010 13:14 night terrors wrote: Can someone explain me the game? I just read the LR thread but dont catch what went on.
Skyhigh went for standard mech opening then went two factory while upgrading speed vultures. s2 did a simcity but a single sunken wasn't enough to stop a handful of marines, SCVs and speed vultures from breaking through and killing basically every drone. s2's mutalisks pop out but types out when he see Skyhigh's turrets.
As long as FBB can win their games, this shouldn't be a problem. But everyone drops a game here and there. And this is looking a lot like PL finals, where SKT's zergs failed them when it mattered most.
On December 12 2010 13:39 Lightwip wrote: As long as FBB can win their games, this shouldn't be a problem. But everyone drops a game here and there. And this is looking a lot like PL finals, where SKT's zergs failed them when it mattered most.
well it definitely doesn't "matter most" since the team in 2nd dropped a game giving T1 even more room.
On December 12 2010 13:39 Lightwip wrote: As long as FBB can win their games, this shouldn't be a problem. But everyone drops a game here and there. And this is looking a lot like PL finals, where SKT's zergs failed them when it mattered most.
well it definitely doesn't "matter most" since the team in 2nd dropped a game giving T1 even more room.
That's true, this match is pretty irrelevant in the long run. But they(zergs) can't just keep losing forever. Eventually it will matter.
On December 12 2010 13:47 Lightwip wrote: SKT should field its protoss more, I think they have more potential to be honest.
You think? Really? The line-up that has been keeping SKT alive all these years has more potential than the players who've been giving out tens of free wins to their opponents? Do go on...
On December 12 2010 13:47 Lightwip wrote: SKT should field its protoss more, I think they have more potential to be honest.
You think? Really? The line-up that has been keeping SKT alive all these years has more potential than the players who've been giving out tens of free wins to their opponents? Do go on...
On December 12 2010 13:47 Lightwip wrote: SKT should field its protoss more, I think they have more potential to be honest.
You think? Really? The line-up that has been keeping SKT alive all these years has more potential than the players who've been giving out tens of free wins to their opponents? Do go on...
Sun and Paralyze I mean....
i agree. and with best and bisu, they at least have someone on the team who can teach them how to be a successful player. who can the skt zergs look up to or ask for advice?
Movie really putting on the pressure, Fantasy dealing with it well though, Movie with reaver tech on it's way, he has three gates and his nat is running
Movie has a large army of goons/zealots. Dropship out for Fantasy, spotted by an observer. Movie moving in,doesn't look like fantasy will survive this attack
Hello Coach Park, not to be presumptuous and assume I know better how to do your job than you do...but perhaps you might consider not taking more than 2 risks a day, in the players you send and the strategies that they have prepared? That last couple wins were pretty razor-thin...
On December 12 2010 14:01 ArvickHero wrote: well lets see.. there Bisu, Best, Kwanro, Paralyze and Sun vs.. Snow, Hogil, horang2 and Leta.
I can't see this going to the ACE match :\
They can get to ACE if they get extremely lucky with match ups... aka Bisu vs HogiL, (if hogil doesn't all in?), BeSt vs Leta, and maybe Kwanro vs Horang2 which would be interesting... all in vs ex-all in player =P.
On December 12 2010 14:01 ArvickHero wrote: well lets see.. there Bisu, Best, Kwanro, Paralyze and Sun vs.. Snow, Hogil, horang2 and Leta.
I can't see this going to the ACE match :\
hope for some real awesome pairing.
Bisu vs Hogil Best vs Leta Kwanro vs Snow
something i guess lol
I think even Snow would beat Kwanro given his current form.. in fact Hyuk seems to be the best third choice at the moment due to his good ZvP (as long as he doesnt run into Leta)
On December 12 2010 14:00 renzy wrote: ... is SKT trolling today or something?.... I am speechless by fantasy's medic....
Could be, though I'm not convinced yet. I'll agree that they're trolling if they make it to ace and then send out another Zerg.
Or ssak T_T Seriously, I don't know what the coach is thinking. If only he had switched Soo and s2 we would have got a win I think :s And even if Fantasy played ez-mode against Flying recently, it doesn't mean he can be arrogant enough to go medics while down 0-2 :|
On December 12 2010 14:00 renzy wrote: ... is SKT trolling today or something?.... I am speechless by fantasy's medic....
Could be, though I'm not convinced yet. I'll agree that they're trolling if they make it to ace and then send out another Zerg.
Or ssak T_T Seriously, I don't know what the coach is thinking. If only he had switched Soo and s2 we would have got a win I think :s
you're aware the coach doesn't know the other team's line-up ?
Yea, but in this case he should've been worried even after seeing just his team's line-up. And if he knew what Fantasy was planning to do, he should've really made some adjustments (like locking Fantasy in the cellar).
12/12 (Sunday) ► Hite Entus vs SKTelecom T1 OnGameNet 13:00 Game 1: < Fortress > Game 2: < Benzene > Game 3: < Grand Line SE > Game 4: < Empire of the Sun > Game 5: < Aztec > Game 6: < Icarus > Ace: < Circuit Breakers >
Well, our team hasn't been 4-0'd in quite a while. Guess it was bound to happen at some point. At the very least this should serve as a wake-up call for them to get their shit together.
Leta is sniping obs like a fiend. CC blocked by pylon, leta moving his units in to remove the pylon lol Looks like sun has placed a few pylons around, he's adding gates.
Sun takes his fourth, Leta building turrets around his base, he has like five factories pumping units. First arb is out, lone vulture scouting and sees the arb First vessel out for Leta, arbiter and co moving around the map, they engage in the tank line stasis hits a lot of tanks
it's not enough to overcome the tank line though Looks liek sun has expoed to 5, vultures raiding 5, single zealot dies there, tanks dropped there too, nexus canceleed
Leta with 2-1 upgrades, sun with 2-0 Mines are slowing down goon movement, Sun has a lot of observers around the map. Goons engage in vulture gang and a single tank at 5, goons backing off. Leta moving his army towards Sun's main, zealots engage, a lot of zealots, emp on arb Vultures arrive to back up the tanks but goons flank! Leta retreating his units
leta with 2-2 upgrades now, zealots clearing leta's units at 5 arb and co on the move again, both contesting for the middle. Leta careful to only seige up on higher ground. Sun engages again, Leta has a lot of vults, Sun snipes a vessel before backing away. Sun has 2-1 upgrades now
Sun expanding to 5.5, losing a zealot carelessly to a mine. Both armies moving around the center ridges. Somehow Leta's army looks bigger, armies engage once again, zealots flank, they get into the tank line, there are so few goons though. Leta comes out on top
I know why SKT send this lineup today : this is the line up they prepared for ACE before the change of schedule. When the match schedule was changed Coach Park was probably like "WTF ?" and decided to let the team have a relax match lol
Lone arb sniped by goliath. Leta's army advancing on both 4 and 2.5 Tanks move in and probes run. Sun expoing at 5, scan goes off there so leta knows. Zealots and a few goons clear up the terran units at 2, but there are more sitting up on higher ground close by. Dropship drops tank and vultures at 5.5
leta moving down towards 3.5 - 1 tank 2 vulture drop at 5! sun has to run probes sun has so little vision around the map now that most of his obs have been destroyed
sun attack towards leat's remaining forces at 3 - emp on arbiter misses!
leta moving out a fresh new army through the center of the map! sun greats it with goons both arbiters emp'd but a stasis still landed
sun committing to the fight! leta's army destroyed!
On December 12 2010 14:33 kamikami wrote: I know why SKT send this lineup today : this is the line up they prepared for ACE before the change of schedule. When the match schedule was changed Coach Park was probably like "WTF ?" and decided to let the team have a relax match lol
On December 12 2010 14:33 kamikami wrote: I know why SKT send this lineup today : this is the line up they prepared for ACE before the change of schedule. When the match schedule was changed Coach Park was probably like "WTF ?" and decided to let the team have a relax match lol
looool it makes sense!
lol i was thinking of the same thing haha too bad i wouldn't see bisu play
sun finally clears the dropped tank at 5, and kills the dropship too
sun must be mining very little though
leta moving out another army to the center of the map, destroys another obs - that's probably sun's last obs around the map he's using one with his army to clear mines though
Leta positioning his army in the center of the map again, goons moving to contest that psition, no they're moving around it, but they end up engaging tanks anyway, few goons and zealots die, the rest retreat.
Sun has resumed mining at his expos after all that harass, gang of vults move in on 2, probes are dying left and right, they lay mines there too
Nexus sniped by vults there are the zealots are in hold position?
finally leta runs scvs away from 8.5, vultures come to save it
leta now mining on one base as 8.5 depletes
another obs lost
sun with more than 2 groups of zealots moving out arbiter freezes 2 tanks - mass zealots surrouing leta's army in the middle leta's vultures were at 8.5!
but leta's army has some depth - all the zealots evaporate
sun's probably in bad shape one dt among leta's army, scan, destroyed
leta's army moving to threaten sun's last mining bases at 5 and 4.5
Leta almost mined out at 9, he's got one mining base at 8, Sun engages again at the middle, he's getting deep in the tank line but not deep enough, Leta still has too many units. Leta's army is on the move and they're heading towards 5.5. and 5
5.5 falls easily as there's no defense there, this looks like it might be the end for Sun. Leta has more units en route. Leta moves into 5 to take down whatever buildings are there
Instead of engaging the center, he could've used his damn arbiters to recall to kill that only freaking expansion leta has...he lost who knows how many damn units trying to take down the center.
Park's risky lineup finally caught up to him. Honestly, the fact that the last few games went to ace was just bad. Hopefully this can be a lesson in lineups. Only the protoss player showed skill, yet Park insists on sending zergs. Why? Who knows.
I woke up at 5 AM just to watch this series...and knowing it´s against SKT gave me a bad feeling. But now this. Unfortunately it wasn´t against SKT´s A-Team with Bisu and Best not playing but I can live with that.
On December 12 2010 14:46 LichtgestaltSC wrote: YES !! 4-0ed SKT !! Go Hite Entus ...
I woke up at 5 AM just to watch this series...and knowing it´s against SKT gave me a bad feeling. But now this. Unfortunately it wasn´t against SKT´s A-Team with Bisu and Best not playing but I can live with that.
No, fortunately (for you) it wasn't against SKT's A-team..
What's with all the people complaining about Sun before Bisu/Best. Since Fantasy failed to pull off a win, they needed a 3rd win to send it to ace. What's the point of playing Bisu/Best only to lose in the 6th set. The coaches obviously sent the player they felt would perform the best on that map apart from star trio.
On December 12 2010 14:45 SniperVul5 wrote: I donno if it's me, but I find that Sun always loses his chance to win whenever he loses. This kinda reminds me of his game vs shuttle.
yeah! i think his teammates (bisu and best) already told this to him. but he won against shuttle, right?
Oddly enough, Sun reminds me of Bisu 50% of the time right now: Extremely skilled but with some questionable decision-making. Except vZ. No one seems to have PvZ skill but Bisu and sometimes Kal.
On December 12 2010 14:50 Lightwip wrote: Oddly enough, Sun reminds me of Bisu 50% of the time right now: Extremely skilled but with some questionable decision-making.
Sun takes after Bisu while Paralyze is Best's apprentice
If you need to blame somebody, blame Fantasy. Sun is a rookie and he went up against Leta while Fantasy lost to Movie with some cute BS. There's no comparison here.
On December 12 2010 14:58 kuroshiroi wrote: If you need to blame somebody, blame Fantasy. Sun is a rookie and he went up against Leta while Fantasy lost to Movie with some cute BS. There's no comparison here.
I think Park is to blame here for taking 4 risks in a row. 2 zergs, 1 fantasy build(letting him do it), and a rookie with poor decision-making.
On December 12 2010 14:57 pieisamazing wrote: and the superior team triumphs
Fighting B-teamers and holding off a cheese-like build from an A-teamer don't make your team superior. To know which team is superior, look at the overall performance of the current season (or would i say, of every season lol)
On December 12 2010 14:58 kuroshiroi wrote: If you need to blame somebody, blame Fantasy. Sun is a rookie and he went up against Leta while Fantasy lost to Movie with some cute BS. There's no comparison here.
I think Park is to blame here for taking 4 risks in a row. 2 zergs, 1 fantasy build(letting him do it), and a rookie with poor decision-making.
Indeed. Blaming Sun should be the last thing SKT1 fans should do, he had the hardest matchup, with the possible exception of Soo.
On December 12 2010 14:46 LichtgestaltSC wrote: YES !! 4-0ed SKT !! Go Hite Entus ...
I woke up at 5 AM just to watch this series...and knowing it´s against SKT gave me a bad feeling. But now this. Unfortunately it wasn´t against SKT´s A-Team with Bisu and Best not playing but I can live with that.
No, fortunately (for you) it wasn't against SKT's A-team..
Well, arrogance should always be punished. And since it was your teams coach that fielded that (un)fortunate line-up... Then again, I´m not sure at all if two games with Bisu and Best really would have gotten two wins and even if, that´s still not enough to take it to the ace-game...
As a final thought: SKT got crushed by CJ and all the wins were deserved !
On December 12 2010 14:57 pieisamazing wrote: and the superior team triumphs
Fighting B-teamers and holding off a cheese-like build from an A-teamer don't make your team superior. To know which team is superior, look at the overall performance of the current season (or would i say, of every season lol)
Nah, this just proves that preceding part of the season was a fluke ;-)
On December 12 2010 14:50 Lightwip wrote: Oddly enough, Sun reminds me of Bisu 50% of the time right now: Extremely skilled but with some questionable decision-making. Except vZ. No one seems to have PvZ skill but Bisu and sometimes Kal.
Bisu said that Sun's weakness was being unable to finish off games.. and it seems to hold true :\
On December 12 2010 14:50 Lightwip wrote: Oddly enough, Sun reminds me of Bisu 50% of the time right now: Extremely skilled but with some questionable decision-making. Except vZ. No one seems to have PvZ skill but Bisu and sometimes Kal.
On December 12 2010 14:46 LichtgestaltSC wrote: YES !! 4-0ed SKT !! Go Hite Entus ...
I woke up at 5 AM just to watch this series...and knowing it´s against SKT gave me a bad feeling. But now this. Unfortunately it wasn´t against SKT´s A-Team with Bisu and Best not playing but I can live with that.
No, fortunately (for you) it wasn't against SKT's A-team..
Well, arrogance should always be punished. And since it was your teams coach that fielded that (un)fortunate line-up... Then again, I´m not sure at all if two games with Bisu and Best really would have gotten two wins and even if, that´s still not enough to take it to the ace-game...
As a final thought: SKT got crushed by CJ and all the wins were deserved !
Yup, CJ's win was well deserved. No team should win if they play the way SKT played today. But let's not kid ourselves about CJ's chances vs. SKT's best...
wait wait wtf? Wait... this... wait did OP get it wrong? I mean the hentus team in results is bolded and underlined and it says 0-4 SKT - Hite Entus... and I mean this only got 20 pages, because ... wtf this can't be happening... is this a joke thread?!! WHY IS THIS?? MY WEEK HAS BEEN MADE SHITTIER.... *btw...with all this disbelief and rage, it makes me wonder if there are starcraft hooligans in S.K. like football hooligans in england...
Yup, CJ's win was well deserved. No team should win if they play the way SKT played today. But let's not kid ourselves about CJ's chances vs. SKT's best...
Not too sure what to think about that to be honest. Looking at their line-up it shows that at least three if not all the players are fielded regularly in this season and I think it´s fair to say that the zergs (including Kwanro) were responsible for quite some upsets in the season´s beginning and with those they helped SKT a lot. Now, both their strongest (?!) zergs were defeated solildly. Arguably Skyhigh won just because of the build order advantage and usually he´s not so strong against anything that´s not terran, but I think he now tries to overcome his weakness through strategy, maybe actually taking notes from Fantasy´s style. Hydra on the other hand is momentarly just really good, can´t argue against that. Fantasy, the expected heavy-weight and strong contender, chose a special build to counter a 12 Nexus but was out-stragedised. Imagine if he had won with this against the predicted 12 Nex he would be praised as a strategical genius to go for a risky build like that. Sun was doing good but lost to Leta, no need to feel too bad about this.
So all there´s left are Bisu, Best and maybe Hyuk....
What I´m trying to say is I strongly disagree that CJ has no or little chance against the "good SKT". Not in the sense of CJ will take every series against them in today´s fashion of course but I think CJ can put up a close fight against SKT every time they meet and probably win some and loose some.
On December 12 2010 16:45 BloodRupture wrote: Why didn't they send Paralyze? Wasn't he the one who knocked Leta out of OSL?
To be honest, Sun is by far better. He just can't finish games. If you watched him without knowing who it is, you would probably think that he's a dragon. And it's not just one game like Action, he's consistently shown impressive play. Instead of a zerg, that would probably be a good idea.
coach park... I don't know if your Phil Jackson, but god damn it, build a dynasty, you've got a triangle offense with FBB and some other peeps... although you got lousy point guards (SKT Zergs) they can come up big on times... , but your team will only stay like that so long, gotta get shit straight.
On December 12 2010 16:45 BloodRupture wrote: Why didn't they send Paralyze? Wasn't he the one who knocked Leta out of OSL?
Paralyze is actually quite a horrible player. If you seen his game vs Hyuk, you'll realize he is indecisive, and has little game sense
I've got this one covered. Here's how it went down:
Everyone at SKT knows that Paralyze, with his afro powers, can easily beat Flash/Kal, so the coaches had him give the win to Hyuk, thus increasing the team's overall chances of getting both players to advance.
Long story short, Paralyze can do anything, except make a PvZ loss against Hyuk look believable.
On December 12 2010 18:29 Adr4melecH wrote: damn nooo SKT
Also i wonder if the players are pre-determined before the match or not.
Can anyone clarify this for me please?
Yes they are. You don't know the opposing lineup until a few minutes before starting though. Only ace match isn't predetermined. It's chosen when the time comes.
On December 12 2010 18:29 Adr4melecH wrote: damn nooo SKT
Also i wonder if the players are pre-determined before the match or not.
Can anyone clarify this for me please?
Yes they are. You don't know the opposing lineup until a few minutes before starting though. Only ace match isn't predetermined. It's chosen when the time comes.
I see. The leta vs sun match-up while SKT are down 0-3 makes sense now.
Both Skyhigh and Movie putting the hurt on SKT and their lack of Bisu/Best. One small step for Hentus in R2, hopefully they will do well in Winners League (Pull it together, Leta!)
On December 12 2010 14:48 Jackle wrote: What's with all the people complaining about Sun before Bisu/Best. Since Fantasy failed to pull off a win, they needed a 3rd win to send it to ace. What's the point of playing Bisu/Best only to lose in the 6th set. The coaches obviously sent the player they felt would perform the best on that map apart from star trio.
I would think you would still root against SKT as they're the first place team unless you're content to just fight over 2nd place.
Sure first place would be nice but right now all the teams are bunched up together. It is in MBC's interest that their closest rivals lose to SKT, making it easier to secure a play-off spot. If other teams beat SKT, it puts even more pressure on MBC to do the same or face dropping down the league rankings. I'll worry about first place after they've pulled away from the bottom 6 teams.
On December 12 2010 18:29 Adr4melecH wrote: damn nooo SKT
Also i wonder if the players are pre-determined before the match or not.
Can anyone clarify this for me please?
Yes they are. You don't know the opposing lineup until a few minutes before starting though. Only ace match isn't predetermined. It's chosen when the time comes.
Lightwip, could you please point me to where you got that information from? I've been wondering about this for a while, but so far I've been unable to verify it.
On December 12 2010 18:29 Adr4melecH wrote: damn nooo SKT
Also i wonder if the players are pre-determined before the match or not.
Can anyone clarify this for me please?
Yes they are. You don't know the opposing lineup until a few minutes before starting though. Only ace match isn't predetermined. It's chosen when the time comes.
Lightwip, could you please point me to where you got that information from? I've been wondering about this for a while, but so far I've been unable to verify it.
I've heard this story before but I've yet to see evidence. I think that it's a misunderstanding grown from the sudden change from a predetermined lineup to an unpredetermined one. There are no rules, as far as we know, that force the teams to predetermine their lineups. Rather, the matchups are decided on the spot, and the coaches send in little notes with their choice. That the coaches often do predetermine their lineups is their own business, but is not compulsory. Correct me if I'm wrong, though.
Bad result but absolutely ZERO worries cuz Bisu/Best duo did not play at all - coach mistake that do happen sometimes. Zergs slumping is becoming a problem and T1 have resources not to play their Zerg line at all But it is a long season and it could play out big in PO's when all roster players have experience. I doubt team coaches know who they send their players against before us and By.Sun was sent to get a PvP which he didn't get.
On December 12 2010 18:29 Adr4melecH wrote: damn nooo SKT
Also i wonder if the players are pre-determined before the match or not.
Can anyone clarify this for me please?
Yes they are. You don't know the opposing lineup until a few minutes before starting though. Only ace match isn't predetermined. It's chosen when the time comes.
Lightwip, could you please point me to where you got that information from? I've been wondering about this for a while, but so far I've been unable to verify it.
I've heard this story before but I've yet to see evidence. I think that it's a misunderstanding grown from the sudden change from a predetermined lineup to an unpredetermined one. There are no rules, as far as we know, that force the teams to predetermine their lineups. Rather, the matchups are decided on the spot, and the coaches send in little notes with their choice. That the coaches often do predetermine their lineups is their own business, but is not compulsory. Correct me if I'm wrong, though.
When the change happened last year, what I understood from the translated article was that the lineups were still predetermined, and that the referee was the only one to know both.
On December 12 2010 21:22 SkyLegenD wrote: Man what the hell was Coach Park thinking sending 3/4 scrubs to play Hite. Where the hell was Bisu, Best and Kwanro?
Kwanro's not gotten much playtime - and he hasn't done real well. BeSt's rumored to be sick. Bisu was probably being saved.
1st game: Fortress is heavily T>Z but also heavily Z>P at the moment - but a little bit P>T. Leta's been struggling with his TvZ this season and sKyHigh... just isn't good at it most of the time. More bad luck than anything that this didn't work for SKT.
2nd game: Benzene's a solid Zerg map (though Bisu's played here and won too) and soo's been SKT's best Zerg so far. hite largely doesn't play well against Zerg (Hydra's the exception) - so more bad luck.
3rd game: fantasy lost to Movie. Can't put that on the coach.
4th game: I'm not sure about this. I would have but Bisu out here and Sun on the (far more P-favored) Aztec. But Bisu and Sun were probably the best players SKT had left (assuming BeSt was out), while Entus had Leta (obviously), Horang2, HoGiL, and Snow left. If Sun had been focusing practice on EotS, and Bisu on Aztec, then Coach Park probably thought the win was more likely sticking with the plan than switching "just" because he was down 0-3.
TL;DR: This season s2's the only "scrub" of the players who got sent last night, and even he's got a winning record.
On December 12 2010 18:29 Adr4melecH wrote: damn nooo SKT
Also i wonder if the players are pre-determined before the match or not.
Can anyone clarify this for me please?
Yes they are. You don't know the opposing lineup until a few minutes before starting though. Only ace match isn't predetermined. It's chosen when the time comes.
Lightwip, could you please point me to where you got that information from? I've been wondering about this for a while, but so far I've been unable to verify it.
I've heard this story before but I've yet to see evidence. I think that it's a misunderstanding grown from the sudden change from a predetermined lineup to an unpredetermined one. There are no rules, as far as we know, that force the teams to predetermine their lineups. Rather, the matchups are decided on the spot, and the coaches send in little notes with their choice. That the coaches often do predetermine their lineups is their own business, but is not compulsory. Correct me if I'm wrong, though.
When the change happened last year, what I understood from the translated article was that the lineups were still predetermined, and that the referee was the only one to know both.
Now if you could point to some piece of writing somewhere that confirms it that would be great!
I would think you would still root against SKT as they're the first place team unless you're content to just fight over 2nd place.
Sure first place would be nice but right now all the teams are bunched up together. It is in MBC's interest that their closest rivals lose to SKT, making it easier to secure a play-off spot. If other teams beat SKT, it puts even more pressure on MBC to do the same or face dropping down the league rankings. I'll worry about first place after they've pulled away from the bottom 6 teams.
Are Playoff next month? This is only Round 2 all the teams have a long way to go before worrying about playoffs.
I would think you would still root against SKT as they're the first place team unless you're content to just fight over 2nd place.
Sure first place would be nice but right now all the teams are bunched up together. It is in MBC's interest that their closest rivals lose to SKT, making it easier to secure a play-off spot. If other teams beat SKT, it puts even more pressure on MBC to do the same or face dropping down the league rankings. I'll worry about first place after they've pulled away from the bottom 6 teams.
Are Playoff next month? This is only Round 2 all the teams have a long way to go before worrying about playoffs.
Every match counts towards the overall placing at the end of the season. That's the whole point of proleague. I don't know what your issue is when you're the one who brought up the idea of being "content to just fight over 2nd place".
I would think you would still root against SKT as they're the first place team unless you're content to just fight over 2nd place.
Sure first place would be nice but right now all the teams are bunched up together. It is in MBC's interest that their closest rivals lose to SKT, making it easier to secure a play-off spot. If other teams beat SKT, it puts even more pressure on MBC to do the same or face dropping down the league rankings. I'll worry about first place after they've pulled away from the bottom 6 teams.
Are Playoff next month? This is only Round 2 all the teams have a long way to go before worrying about playoffs.
Every match counts towards the overall placing at the end of the season. That's the whole point of proleague. I don't know what your issue is when you're the one who brought up the idea of being "content to just fight over 2nd place".
If you want first place then hoping that SKT1 loses would seem most logical as SKT1 is in first place by a lot at the moment. If SKT1 keeps winning it secures their first place spot. Other teams that want first place should want all the other teams to do about the same making it easier to rise to the top, if one team consistently dominates like SKT1 is doing than first place should be hard to achieve.
However if you don't care about getting first place than cheering for them to beat every other team besides your favorite is fine. I understand that all these games matter, I just don't understand why you would care about 2nd ranking placing so early on in the season unless that's your long term goal.
I would think you would still root against SKT as they're the first place team unless you're content to just fight over 2nd place.
Sure first place would be nice but right now all the teams are bunched up together. It is in MBC's interest that their closest rivals lose to SKT, making it easier to secure a play-off spot. If other teams beat SKT, it puts even more pressure on MBC to do the same or face dropping down the league rankings. I'll worry about first place after they've pulled away from the bottom 6 teams.
Are Playoff next month? This is only Round 2 all the teams have a long way to go before worrying about playoffs.
Every match counts towards the overall placing at the end of the season. That's the whole point of proleague. I don't know what your issue is when you're the one who brought up the idea of being "content to just fight over 2nd place".
If you want first place then hoping that SKT1 loses would seem most logical as SKT1 is in first place by a lot at the moment. If SKT1 keeps winning it secures their first place spot. Other teams that want first place should want all the other teams to do about the same making it easier to rise to the top, if one team consistently dominates like SKT1 is doing than first place should be hard to achieve.
However if you don't care about getting first place than cheering for them to beat every other team besides your favorite is fine. I understand that all these games matter, I just don't understand why you would care about 2nd ranking placing so early on in the season unless that's your long term goal.
My comment on 2nd place was a response to Zona's post on the current rankings. Like I explained, the broader aim is just to pull away from the bottom 6 teams, that is all.
To all you fanboys saying that it was SKT1s B teamers, Hite still had had Snow, HoGiL and Horang2. Two of which are protoss snipers and Snow is arguably the best player on Hites Team (ranked sixthedON the Power poll). Horang2 has been playing extremly well, and could take a Game against Bisu.
On December 13 2010 03:03 pugowar wrote: To all you fanboys saying that it was SKT1s B teamers, Hite still had had Snow, HoGiL and Horang2. Two of which are protoss snipers and Snow is arguably the best player on Hites Team (ranked sixthedON the Power poll). Horang2 has been playing extremly well, and could take a Game against Bisu.
I honestly wouldn't favor anyone on Hentus against Bisu, not even Leta. Hogil would no doubt be defeated easily by Bisu, and unless he somehow played better than we're used to, Best would even beat him. Snow isn't anything close to resembling a favorite against SKT's tosses, neither is Horang honestly. SKToss, especially Bisu+Best, are really really good. Basically, Best is an autoloss against a good zerg, but other than that both of them should win their games unless their opponent is S class or close to it.
On December 13 2010 03:03 pugowar wrote: To all you fanboys saying that it was SKT1s B teamers, Hite still had had Snow, HoGiL and Horang2. Two of which are protoss snipers and Snow is arguably the best player on Hites Team (ranked sixthedON the Power poll). Horang2 has been playing extremly well, and could take a Game against Bisu.
I honestly wouldn't favor anyone on Hentus against Bisu, not even Leta. Hogil would no doubt be defeated easily by Bisu, and unless he somehow played better than we're used to, Best would even beat him. Snow isn't anything close to resembling a favorite against SKT's tosses, neither is Horang honestly. SKToss, especially Bisu+Best, are really really good. Basically, Best is an autoloss against a good zerg, but other than that both of them should win their games unless their opponent is S class or close to it.
Its not like they have no chance either.
Regardless, SKT needed someone other than BB to win. That someone didn't
On December 13 2010 03:03 pugowar wrote: To all you fanboys saying that it was SKT1s B teamers, Hite still had had Snow, HoGiL and Horang2. Two of which are protoss snipers and Snow is arguably the best player on Hites Team (ranked sixthedON the Power poll). Horang2 has been playing extremly well, and could take a Game against Bisu.
I honestly wouldn't favor anyone on Hentus against Bisu, not even Leta. Hogil would no doubt be defeated easily by Bisu, and unless he somehow played better than we're used to, Best would even beat him. Snow isn't anything close to resembling a favorite against SKT's tosses, neither is Horang honestly. SKToss, especially Bisu+Best, are really really good. Basically, Best is an autoloss against a good zerg, but other than that both of them should win their games unless their opponent is S class or close to it.
no one would favor movie against fantasy and yet, he won
On December 13 2010 03:03 pugowar wrote: To all you fanboys saying that it was SKT1s B teamers, Hite still had had Snow, HoGiL and Horang2. Two of which are protoss snipers and Snow is arguably the best player on Hites Team (ranked sixthedON the Power poll). Horang2 has been playing extremly well, and could take a Game against Bisu.
I honestly wouldn't favor anyone on Hentus against Bisu, not even Leta. Hogil would no doubt be defeated easily by Bisu, and unless he somehow played better than we're used to, Best would even beat him. Snow isn't anything close to resembling a favorite against SKT's tosses, neither is Horang honestly. SKToss, especially Bisu+Best, are really really good. Basically, Best is an autoloss against a good zerg, but other than that both of them should win their games unless their opponent is S class or close to it.
no one would favor movie against fantasy and yet, he won
You should know that Fantasy has a 20% chance of doing something utterly stupid in any given situation and losing to the weakest of players. Bisu and Best are less known for that. When they're on top of their game, they aren't going to lose like that. Fantasy always does and makes his fans cry. Basically, Fantasy did something risky when he had no real need to, so he lost. Not that it matters though, one of the zergs or Sun should've won. The fact that SKT took so many risks is very questionable.
On December 13 2010 06:07 amazingoopah wrote: guess SKT wanted to spot the rest of the league a few games??? Why play Soo, Sun???
To be fair, Soo and s2 would've probably won if they faced the other opponent. Also, Sun is really skilled, he just can't end games. Honestly, Sun's games look like those of a dragon who's a bit off his game rather than those of a decent rookie. He just needs to fix that one problem and he can be a good player. Soo is bad ZvZ and he keeps getting that match.
Maybe I'm wrong but T1 Zergs started losing all together (s2, soO, Kwanro and Hyuk) after they brought a lot of wins, they started to get one loss after another.... s2 did win a game but team Zergs are like 1-2 wins and ~8 losses in their last 10 games. Sun has this problem of not finishing his opponent but he is a rookie and it makes games more entertaining to watch :D
On December 13 2010 06:31 Hazard wrote: Maybe I'm wrong but T1 Zergs started losing all together (s2, soO, Kwanro and Hyuk) after they brought a lot of wins, they started to get one loss after another.... s2 did win a game but team Zergs are like 1-2 wins and ~8 losses in their last 10 games.
I think the problem is that the zergs don't really have anyone to look up to, and so a lot of their wins are basically driven by momentum. Sun/Paralyze have the current best protoss duo on their team, so they do have someone to look up to. Zergs really have no one, so they can suck easily. Also, no new terrans because frankly, SKT only has one terran that's actually capable of being good.
On December 13 2010 06:07 amazingoopah wrote: guess SKT wanted to spot the rest of the league a few games??? Why play Soo, Sun???
To be fair, Soo and s2 would've probably won if they faced the other opponent. Also, Sun is really skilled, he just can't end games. Honestly, Sun's games look like those of a dragon who's a bit off his game rather than those of a decent rookie. He just needs to fix that one problem and he can be a good player. Soo is bad ZvZ and he keeps getting that match.
How is this true? Soo, with his awe inspiring 47% winrate vs terran? You guys act like no matter what T1 never loses a game. Ever. Like they are the best BW players on the planet. Also, lets let Sun play more then 41 games (with a stunning 39% winrate) before we call him a "dragon". If 39% is so much better then a decent rookie...what would a decent rookie's numbers look like, 25%? And being able to finish games is not just one problem dude. If he cannot handle three bases at once and attacking multiple places at once he will probably peak at 39%.
Wow, can't believe I missed this game - just watched the vods and wow. What an unexpected result, maybe Hite is not a team to be counted out? They seem to be slowly recovering from the loss of EffOrt and might just have the potential to be as good as (and similiar in many ways to) STX.
On December 13 2010 06:07 amazingoopah wrote: guess SKT wanted to spot the rest of the league a few games??? Why play Soo, Sun???
To be fair, Soo and s2 would've probably won if they faced the other opponent. Also, Sun is really skilled, he just can't end games. Honestly, Sun's games look like those of a dragon who's a bit off his game rather than those of a decent rookie. He just needs to fix that one problem and he can be a good player. Soo is bad ZvZ and he keeps getting that match.
How is this true? Soo, with his awe inspiring 47% winrate vs terran? You guys act like no matter what T1 never loses a game. Ever. Like they are the best BW players on the planet. Also, lets let Sun play more then 41 games (with a stunning 39% winrate) before we call him a "dragon". If 39% is so much better then a decent rookie...what would a decent rookie's numbers look like, 25%? And being able to finish games is not just one problem dude. If he cannot handle three bases at once and attacking multiple places at once he will probably peak at 39%.
With rookies, you really can't look at their stats because throughout most of those games they will be mediocre. You really have to look at how they play. And Sun/Soo are better than their stats say they are(most of the time).
Grats to HEntus. They thoroughly deserved their win, and while it wasn't against SKT's strongest line-up, it definitely wasn't against their B team either. With the exception of s2, all of the players who played have been regular starters this season.
I'm disappointed not to see Bisu and BeSt play, but my guess is BeSt is still recovering from his sickness.
All teams have off days, and yesterday was one of them for SKT. Back to the drawing board, and move on to the next one. The PL season's a marathon not a sprint.
On December 12 2010 18:29 Adr4melecH wrote: damn nooo SKT
Also i wonder if the players are pre-determined before the match or not.
Can anyone clarify this for me please?
Yes they are. You don't know the opposing lineup until a few minutes before starting though. Only ace match isn't predetermined. It's chosen when the time comes.
Lightwip, could you please point me to where you got that information from? I've been wondering about this for a while, but so far I've been unable to verify it.
I've heard this story before but I've yet to see evidence. I think that it's a misunderstanding grown from the sudden change from a predetermined lineup to an unpredetermined one. There are no rules, as far as we know, that force the teams to predetermine their lineups. Rather, the matchups are decided on the spot, and the coaches send in little notes with their choice. That the coaches often do predetermine their lineups is their own business, but is not compulsory. Correct me if I'm wrong, though.
When the change happened last year, what I understood from the translated article was that the lineups were still predetermined, and that the referee was the only one to know both.
Now if you could point to some piece of writing somewhere that confirms it that would be great!
I would think you would still root against SKT as they're the first place team unless you're content to just fight over 2nd place.
Sure first place would be nice but right now all the teams are bunched up together. It is in MBC's interest that their closest rivals lose to SKT, making it easier to secure a play-off spot. If other teams beat SKT, it puts even more pressure on MBC to do the same or face dropping down the league rankings. I'll worry about first place after they've pulled away from the bottom 6 teams.
Are Playoff next month? This is only Round 2 all the teams have a long way to go before worrying about playoffs.
Every match counts towards the overall placing at the end of the season. That's the whole point of proleague. I don't know what your issue is when you're the one who brought up the idea of being "content to just fight over 2nd place".
If you want first place then hoping that SKT1 loses would seem most logical as SKT1 is in first place by a lot at the moment. If SKT1 keeps winning it secures their first place spot. Other teams that want first place should want all the other teams to do about the same making it easier to rise to the top, if one team consistently dominates like SKT1 is doing than first place should be hard to achieve.
However if you don't care about getting first place than cheering for them to beat every other team besides your favorite is fine. I understand that all these games matter, I just don't understand why you would care about 2nd ranking placing so early on in the season unless that's your long term goal.
If you worry about playoffs only during the closing rounds, then you have alot of hard work before you and there's a high chance for you to fail to make it. Actually aiming for 2nd place makes alot of sense in PL format since 2nd place gets a bye to the semi-finals while 3rd-6th place have to duke it out in basically an Ro16.
this the problem with finished LR threads .. Fanboys arguing blindly ..
its still B-teamers though, not to disregard Hite's A-Teamers, its just that if the coach wanted to really win the match he could have sent the best player of his team.
On December 13 2010 12:37 aimaimaim wrote: this the problem with finished LR threads .. Fanboys arguing blindly ..
its still B-teamers though, not to disregard Hite's A-Teamers, its just that if the coach wanted to really win the match he could have sent the best player of his team.
but im not implying that SKT = autowin ..
Yes, as you said, Fanboys arguing blindly and that´s what you are doing! It just wasn´t SKT´s B-Team! At least three out of the four players (excluding Sun) are fielded in most of SKT´s series, if not even all of them. Since when does Fantasy belong to the B-Team ? It´s a difference between not sending the best player (bisu) of your A-Team in the first four matches and sending a B-Team. And by saying it was SKT´s B-Players you´re trying to take away the meaning for CJ´s win.
--> Your A-Team got swept before its best player was fielded ! That is all.
And as others already said, on Hite also remained good players. Snow, Hogil and Horang2. --> Just to remind you, Horang2 has over 70% PvP ! It´s (statistically) better than Bests ans Bisus.
Well he probably belongs on the B team the 20% of the time he decides to do some awful failed build that doesn't work.
Again, the build itself would have been really strong against 12 Nex and other FEs as can be expected from Protoss on the map. Unfortunately for Fantasy, Movie did open with fast aggression and his build couldn´t defend good enough. As I already mentioned in another post, had Movie gone for a 12 Nex and therefor lost to that exact build by Fantasy, every SKT-fan would praise Fantasy´s strategy!
By the same logic, Bisu isn´t a B-Team-Member because he´s playing against shine...
On December 13 2010 17:31 LichtgestaltSC wrote: And as others already said, on Hite also remained good players. Snow, Hogil and Horang2. --> Just to remind you, Horang2 has over 70% PvP ! It´s (statistically) better than Bests ans Bisus.
Wow and Sun is 100% at PvZ but maybe when they play more games they will drop those a lil'. And it doesn't mean that Sun can take down Jaedong Besides Bisu/Best can still lose but they win most of the times this season so they are the main reason SKT T1 is #1 currently.
Wow and Sun is 100% at PvZ but maybe when they play more games they will drop those a lil'. And it doesn't mean that Sun can take down Jaedong Besides Bisu/Best can still lose but they win most of the times this season so they are the main reason SKT T1 is #1 currently.
Maybe ... just maybe this comparison isn´t really that good, but of course I know what is meant. And I would have agreed you before I looked up the stats for horang2 a while ago*. Sun is 1-0 in PvZ. The number of games played just isn´t quite high enough to judge him correctly I feel ;-) On the other hand, Horang2 ist 24-10 in his PvP, which are actually quite some games you´ve got to admit. On the other hand of course, I know that best and bisu have doule/4x more PvPs played and still high PvP stats. Something I don´t see Horang2 having after having played that number of games. Still I don´t expect him to drop to 30% ...
*I did this because I don´t like him and his style and I had such a hard time rooting for him (like I have with hogil as well)
Blah blah blah, Fantasy sucked too during his firstest games. Gotta build from somewhere. Stomping hite in the process woulda been sadistic and sweet. Too bad.
EPT![[image loading]](http://imgur.com/xeIvj.png)
![[image loading]](http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/images/teams/1.jpg)
vs ![[image loading]](http://imgur.com/x4ICU.png)
Bisu > 
Hydra
Leta![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/g5u8y.png)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/wKK2p.png)
![[image loading]](http://i1.ytimg.com/vi/pGFV7KwaqzI/hqdefault.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/lZAHM.png)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/EOLsI.jpg)
