|
Format taken from Kona's threads last year. Thanks to Quasar for making the new custom Teamliquid banner for WCG 2010.![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/lwBOm.jpg) August 12th 12:00 KST  Stork vs Pure EffOrt vs  fOrGGAll matches are Best of 3. Map PoolSet 1: Polaris RhapsodySet 2: Fighting SpiritSet 3: Match PointResults:+ Show Spoiler +How to watch:Please add below if anyone has any =D http://kr.wcg.com/Championship/Broadcast/2010/Broadcast.asphttp://www.teamliquid.net/video/userstream.php?user=MystlordRecommended Games+ Show Spoiler + Set 1: Games were very different from your standard PvP... but the games had the same things happen so watch game 1 if you want, but the decision making and micro was questionable.
Set 2 Game 1: Very aggressive play from a player making the other player have to make a comeback from a tight spot by playing aggressively himself. The game is recommended as it is a break from the often turtling Terran and good control from both players.
Set 2 Game 2: Strong plays from both players, until towards the end where loser ends up starting to slip up in control, and winner being able to make a giant comeback from an almost for sure lost game. Poll: Who will win?Dinotoss (48) 75% Pure (16) 25% 64 total votes Your vote: Who will win? (Vote): Dinotoss
(Vote): Pure
Poll: Who will win?Messiah (35) 51% Pretender (33) 49% 68 total votes Your vote: Who will win? (Vote): Messiah
(Vote): Pretender
|
Again with the PvPs...dammit, as long as stork gets through, would love to see him in finals again
|
FREEAGLELAND26781 Posts
EffOrt vs fOrGG ought to be hella good.
|
Can no one think of a good nick name for Pure?
|
Canada2480 Posts
stork effort
cant watch T_T
|
Tough night for ForGG - has to play both of last season's OSL finalists in BoX's all in one day
|
I think fOrGG can pull out a win here, his TvZ is underrated, not as good as Flash and Light but better than the majority of A-team Terrans.
|
"Messiah" never quite caught on.
Alien Zerg fit him much better.
|
Hmm I think I'll stay up for Effort vs ForGG. I would say forGG should just go mech, because Effort croaks vs mech, but ForGG's mech got 2-0ed by Action... I foresee a 2-0 for Effort regardless of bio or mech, but I really hope ForGG wins somehow.
|
|
|
3 Lions
United States3705 Posts
On August 12 2010 07:44 SimonB wrote:
"Messiah" never quite caught on.
Alien Zerg fit him much better.
Messiah caught on in Korea.
But here most people call him the alien lolol
|
Although I'm still pissed that ForGG beat mOvie, I think ForGG beats Effort.
|
United States10774 Posts
|
Wow, ForGG has to play Flash and Effort in the same day. It's 2008 all over again.
|
effort v forgg ! im defo gonna watch this
|
Yeah!
Stork and Effort gogo!
|
|
|
don't see a stream up, starting mine.
|
|
|
On August 12 2010 12:00 tbrown47 wrote:
don't see a stream up, starting mine.
tbrown, which station broadcasts wcg?
|
On August 12 2010 12:02 JohnColtrane wrote:Show nested quote +On August 12 2010 12:00 tbrown47 wrote:
don't see a stream up, starting mine. tbrown, which station broadcasts wcg?
OGN.
|
No stream? 
|
im watching on the ogn site if anyone wants a LR?
|
Mystlord
United States10264 Posts
I was out at dinner and just got back. Well my stream's in the sidebar so yeah.
|
On August 12 2010 12:03 maximuspita wrote:No stream?
Mystlord is live.
I'm shutting mine down, since his is up. Don't want to lag my friend playing internet gamezez unless I have to.
|
|
|
Fenrax
United States5018 Posts
I am very very worried for Stork. I did LB him btu now I think he will lose.
|
They're still going with Blind Guardian in regards to the music, I don't mind it at all.
Hopefully Stork can pull through.
|
Fenrax
United States5018 Posts
Oh, and like always. Huge thanks to Mystlord.
|
effort is called Messiah? I've never heard that before.
|
FYI, the Korean WCG stream is running smoothly and in HD.
Gogogo Storku!
|
On August 12 2010 12:08 Xinliben wrote:
effort is called Messiah? I've never heard that before.
considering the nicknames in his profile, i prefer hawkeye to messiah
|
Fenrax
United States5018 Posts
|
how kind of the producers to temporarily remove the top banner to show us if the core was spinning in pures base ^^
|
Does Stork not like reavers or what? That 2-reaver push by Pure could have ended the game.
|
|
|
O BOI HERE WE GO
ARMYS AT EACH OTHERS NATS
Really wish they fought instead.
|
pure defintely has a lot more cannons in his fourth expo..
|
christ I just watched this game
|
Hahahaha stork's hidden pylon gets found. He's building another one.
|
FREEAGLELAND26781 Posts
Hahaha Pure is rebuilding. Don't think Stork's going to win this.
|
On August 12 2010 12:31 integral wrote:
christ I just watched this game
This so hard. Just like yesterday's game with the base trading
|
pure cant afford to lose this game, more food, and possibility of an extra base
|
|
|
LOL Pure is like standing rigth out of range of stork's hidden pylon
AND HE MISSES IT lmfao.
|
Both players don't really have anything but units. Pure is trying to rebuild, Stork is hiding pylons.
Stork has no money so he's fucked if the pylons are spotted. Pure misses the one in the top right.
|
Stork has a ninja pylon but Pure has the 9 o'clock running.
|
this game looks oddly like Stork vs Free from last night
|
Pure contains Stork's army in his old main. GG.
|
Stork gg's after failing to bust out of pure's old main.
|
stork gives away his units and gg's
|
|
|
Stork needed to hit the expo, not the main.
|
FREEAGLELAND26781 Posts
|
hmm that's an interesting commercial between KT and SKT coaches... what's that about?
|
Why does this Pure even cometing. Even if he wins with toss he will embarass himself when any zerg comes.
|
On August 12 2010 12:35 newvsoldschool wrote:
hmm that's an interesting commercial between KT and SKT coaches... what's that about?
All-star game
|
On August 12 2010 12:36 Rewera wrote:
Why does this Pure even cometing. Even if he wins with toss he will embarass himself when any zerg comes.
I guess Best should retire then.
On August 12 2010 12:36 Neighbor wrote:Show nested quote +On August 12 2010 12:35 newvsoldschool wrote:
hmm that's an interesting commercial between KT and SKT coaches... what's that about? All-star game
Ah I see
|
On August 12 2010 12:35 newvsoldschool wrote:
hmm that's an interesting commercial between KT and SKT coaches... what's that about?
They're choosing the all star lineups for saturday (probably not really but its a commercial). They won't be revealed until that day.
|
Stork will bounce back, pure will choke.
Seems like playing Bisu so much helped Pure's PvP
|
Stork + non-T = LOSS
as with most Proti in the game these days...
(except Stork seems to turn it up vs. Jaedong)
|
stork for silver WOOT!!!
Stork fighting
|
Fenrax
United States5018 Posts
|
|
|
|
|
Fenrax
United States5018 Posts
On August 12 2010 12:40 MyLifeForIron wrote:
Stork + non-T = LOSS
as with most Proti in the game these days...
(except Stork seems to turn it up vs. Jaedong)
Yeah, clearly a lot of Proti are losing the mirror matches these days. Totally imba.
|
Interestingly, both players scout crossmap, and find each other first.
Both going gate gas core to start.
|
Huh. I guess 1 gate range expand is the new thing for crossmap positions.
|
Both players expand, but Stork starts his first.
Stork now going 3gate; Pure also adding up to 3-gate. Mirrored builds, but Pure is about 20-30 seconds slower for some reason.
Stork goes for a push into Pure's nat! Nice goon micro, Pure has to pull all his nat probes . .. traps Stork's goons, tears them up. Big victory there for Pure, who is now countering.
|
wow since when did Pure get such good goon/zeal micro
|
Stork suicides a bunch of units and is 10 food behind.
|
On August 12 2010 12:42 QuothTheRaven wrote:
Interestingly, both players scout crossmap, and find each other first.
Both going gate gas core to start.
on FS I always scout cross position first. This way you know if your opponent is "near" or far, which is crucial for the early-mid game (how to defend or perform pushes)
|
|
|
Stork with a nice goon concave behind his fat bridge, Pure can't push in.
Stork has a reaver about to finish! Pure still on 4-gate, by the looks of it, and getting ready to push.
Going in! Nice AI pylon by Stork there. Pure has more forces but Stork's are in much better position, so he manages to hold off until the reaver comes, which forces Pure back.
|
Pure ahead in supply by about 16 psi? how is this happening?
|
pure opt to go templar tech while stork went with goon reavers
|
Stork pushing out, but he's at a substantial supply deficit so he'll have to make miracles happen to stay in this.
|
Lets not loose those two reavers ok stork?
Well you just did, god damnit.
|
FREEAGLELAND26781 Posts
Whoops let's lose those two reavers okay Stork?
|
|
|
Damn, Pure's pretty awesome when he plays like this. I guess he has an on/off switch somewhere
|
Battle engages! Pure goes in, snipes the shuttle!
Reaver shots annihilate some clumped goons, doing lots of damage--but Pure just has way too many goons for Stork to handle, and cleans up the battle.
Stork now behind by 25 food.
|
stork is going to lose. 20 supply behind
|
pure awarded himself with an expansion...
stork is still on two base.
wow stork is taking an hidden expo at the botton right corner of the map.
|
um why doesn't pure have Reavers or HT yet?
|
Those templars of Pure will hurt Stork.
|
Ah, Stork goes for a ninja expansion in the bottom right main! Pure has a probe heading to 6, but as of yet hasn't spotted the expo.
|
|
|
I should have bet on Pure. What's Stork doing :|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Pure scouts the expansion!
Stork moves out on the map to hold it, though, and does some reaver harass at 3 to buy time.
Both players dancing around in the center with their armies.
Pure distracts Stork's forces with a small group, then sends his whole army into Stork's nat while Stork's forces are out of position! Stork going for Pure, base trade incoming!
|
sheesh another elimination race?
|
not again
|
|
|
51398 Posts
|
FREEAGLELAND26781 Posts
|
|
|
IVE SEEN THIS GAME BEFORE!
|
I think Pure got the better of the exchange.
mass cannons for stork on his ninja expansion.
|
pure is way ahead. stork should gg now
|
half the food, supply blocked, using all the minerals for cannons, storks day just cant get any worse
does stork even realize pure as 12?
|
Stork's weakness base trades!
|
United States12607 Posts
lol so uh.....wtf is going on in this game here guys?
|
On August 12 2010 12:58 JWD wrote:
lol so uh.....wtf is going on in this game here guys?
same thing that happened in game 1
|
Pure is a really good player, but his big battle micro seemed a bit lacking last I saw.
Stork decides not to take advantage of this and instead avoid any sort of confrontation every game?
;____;
|
Damn it stork you screw up my LB twice in a row. I don't even...
|
Stork really wanted to go to LA I guess
|
This game kinda reminded of stork vs bisu game 5 of the msl final..
|
United States12607 Posts
On August 12 2010 12:59 AppleTart wrote:Show nested quote +On August 12 2010 12:58 JWD wrote:
lol so uh.....wtf is going on in this game here guys? same thing that happened in game 1
I tuned in to see blue on 1base with 99999 cannons at his ramp, and orange with the whole map.
this looks like something you would encounter on US East, that annoying opponent who won't leave the game!
|
Stork needs a second base to match Pure's, but he has no way to defend one.
I guess he'll go for shuttle/reaver harass because he has no army.
|
Philadelphia, PA10406 Posts
On August 12 2010 12:58 AppleTart wrote:
Stork's weakness base trades!
Well, Pure's done well to force them when he's been ahead, rather than risk a battle that he could conceivably be out-micro'd in.
|
Pure played really well. Bisu is down so Stork is down again.
|
Storku... </3 Pure might as well go for carriers.
No Storku in WCG 2010.
|
Haha Stork hides a templar behind the tree to storm while his shuttle is away.
|
guys, stork just took 4 probes
hes gonna win
lol sike thats right pure has 3 full bases and triple storks army
|
stork finally ggs, hes out =[
|
Poll: Recommend any games this set?NOOO STOP PLAYING WoW STORK (24) 80% Game 1 (3) 10% Watch if you have time (2) 7% Neither (1) 3% Game 2 (0) 0% Both (0) 0% 30 total votes Your vote: Recommend any games this set? (Vote): Game 1
(Vote): Game 2
(Vote): Both
(Vote): Neither
(Vote): Watch if you have time
(Vote): NOOO STOP PLAYING WoW STORK
|
Poor Stork.
|
United States12607 Posts
ooooo EffOrt fOrGG should be a pretty sweet matchup.
|
|
|
On August 12 2010 13:02 usopsama wrote:Pure Stork.
Fixed.
|
Oh god I need forgg to come through for me today to make sure it isn't a failure.
|
I WANTED TO SEE YOU IN LA STORK, DAMMIT
|
On August 12 2010 13:02 JWD wrote:
ooooo EffOrt fOrGG should be a pretty sweet matchup.
Let's hope so!
|
United States12607 Posts
On August 12 2010 13:02 tree.hugger wrote:All Pure needed to do was say in chat "I have triple your food" and Stork would've gg'd immediately. Poor Stork though, no return to WCG.
These qualifiers always seem like a bit of a crapshoot to me. In a Bo3 almost anything can happen, but the real issue is that I don't think anyone actually prepares for these matches...leading to a lot of cheeses and "upsets".
The sad thing is, of course, that it doesn't really matter which of these players Korea sends to WCG...
|
Stork is supposed to win
|
Stork...stop disappointing me. ;____;
Can things get any worse for the Protoss race?
On the bright side, Stork didn't even bother to practice PvP in the first place, so we can easily excuse his recent PvP losses.
If ForGG wins against Effort...I will abandon brood war.
|
On August 12 2010 13:02 tree.hugger wrote:All Pure needed to do was say in chat "I have triple your food" and Stork would've gg'd immediately. Poor Stork though, no return to WCG.
Why not?
|
Stork got purexed
am i rite? am i rite??
|
On August 12 2010 13:04 JWD wrote:Show nested quote +On August 12 2010 13:02 tree.hugger wrote:All Pure needed to do was say in chat "I have triple your food" and Stork would've gg'd immediately. Poor Stork though, no return to WCG. These qualifiers always seem like a bit of a crapshoot to me. In a Bo3 almost anything can happen, but the real issue is that I don't think anyone actually prepares for these matches...leading to a lot of cheeses and "upsets". The sad thing is, of course, that it doesn't really matter which of these players Korea sends to WCG...
I don't know, Pure's battle micro is bad enough that he could conceivably manage to lose to a foreigner if he somehow made the final.
|
On August 12 2010 13:07 Musoeun wrote:Show nested quote +On August 12 2010 13:04 JWD wrote:On August 12 2010 13:02 tree.hugger wrote:All Pure needed to do was say in chat "I have triple your food" and Stork would've gg'd immediately. Poor Stork though, no return to WCG. These qualifiers always seem like a bit of a crapshoot to me. In a Bo3 almost anything can happen, but the real issue is that I don't think anyone actually prepares for these matches...leading to a lot of cheeses and "upsets". The sad thing is, of course, that it doesn't really matter which of these players Korea sends to WCG... I don't know, Pure's battle micro is bad enough that he could conceivably manage to lose to a foreigner if he somehow made the final.
Given that the best BW players switched to SC2 no chances for seeing that. Koreans will own the thing once again.
|
![[image loading]](http://www.beautysnob.com/images2009/sea%20pure.jpg)
I like to think that Pure would use this - being a pretty boy and all.
(Pure... you win when I don't want you to)
|
This is the same Pure that played against Jaedong yesterday?
|
On August 12 2010 13:09 okum wrote:
This is the same Pure that played against Jaedong yesterday?
Maybe he just practiced for the one game he could win while not violating any laws of nature.
|
The girl in the commercial with the Mario music in the background looks like Hyungjoon...
|
On August 12 2010 13:09 okum wrote:
This is the same Pure that played against Jaedong yesterday?
Maybe he only practiced for WCG...
|
Alright Effort you got this!
|
On August 12 2010 13:07 Musoeun wrote:Show nested quote +On August 12 2010 13:04 JWD wrote:On August 12 2010 13:02 tree.hugger wrote:All Pure needed to do was say in chat "I have triple your food" and Stork would've gg'd immediately. Poor Stork though, no return to WCG. These qualifiers always seem like a bit of a crapshoot to me. In a Bo3 almost anything can happen, but the real issue is that I don't think anyone actually prepares for these matches...leading to a lot of cheeses and "upsets". The sad thing is, of course, that it doesn't really matter which of these players Korea sends to WCG... I don't know, Pure's battle micro is bad enough that he could conceivably manage to lose to a foreigner if he somehow made the final.
Even Pure's battle micro is better than any foreigners. Also he showed some nice micro today against Stork so I have no idea what game you were watching.
|
On August 12 2010 13:11 Ace wrote:Show nested quote +On August 12 2010 13:07 Musoeun wrote:On August 12 2010 13:04 JWD wrote:On August 12 2010 13:02 tree.hugger wrote:All Pure needed to do was say in chat "I have triple your food" and Stork would've gg'd immediately. Poor Stork though, no return to WCG. These qualifiers always seem like a bit of a crapshoot to me. In a Bo3 almost anything can happen, but the real issue is that I don't think anyone actually prepares for these matches...leading to a lot of cheeses and "upsets". The sad thing is, of course, that it doesn't really matter which of these players Korea sends to WCG... I don't know, Pure's battle micro is bad enough that he could conceivably manage to lose to a foreigner if he somehow made the final. Even Pure's battle micro is better than any foreigners. Also he showed some nice micro today against Stork so I have no idea what game you were watching.
I'm still bitter about those two idiotic losses to Bisu in PL playoffs. I was rooting for WeMade. :/
|
|
|
LOL I love the poll on page 6
|
On August 12 2010 13:07 Musoeun wrote:Show nested quote +On August 12 2010 13:04 JWD wrote:On August 12 2010 13:02 tree.hugger wrote:All Pure needed to do was say in chat "I have triple your food" and Stork would've gg'd immediately. Poor Stork though, no return to WCG. These qualifiers always seem like a bit of a crapshoot to me. In a Bo3 almost anything can happen, but the real issue is that I don't think anyone actually prepares for these matches...leading to a lot of cheeses and "upsets". The sad thing is, of course, that it doesn't really matter which of these players Korea sends to WCG... I don't know, Pure's battle micro is bad enough that he could conceivably manage to lose to a foreigner if he somehow made the final.
What foreigner is left that is over A-? T_T
|
FREEAGLELAND26781 Posts
I actually think Stork is playing Farmville more... I remember reading an interview...
|
|
|
On August 12 2010 13:14 flamewheel wrote:
I actually think Stork is playing Farmville more... I remember reading an interview...
Are you sure it's not One Piece?
|
Philadelphia, PA10406 Posts
On August 12 2010 13:14 Ursadon-n-Pals wrote:Show nested quote +On August 12 2010 13:07 Musoeun wrote:On August 12 2010 13:04 JWD wrote:On August 12 2010 13:02 tree.hugger wrote:All Pure needed to do was say in chat "I have triple your food" and Stork would've gg'd immediately. Poor Stork though, no return to WCG. These qualifiers always seem like a bit of a crapshoot to me. In a Bo3 almost anything can happen, but the real issue is that I don't think anyone actually prepares for these matches...leading to a lot of cheeses and "upsets". The sad thing is, of course, that it doesn't really matter which of these players Korea sends to WCG... I don't know, Pure's battle micro is bad enough that he could conceivably manage to lose to a foreigner if he somehow made the final. What foreigner is left that is over A-? T_T
 iNfeRnaL is the best foreigner that I haven't heard of playing Sc2.
And lest we forget, (and we always do, though) Pure has actually been playing pretty solidly recently, especially in PvP. I used to think he was pretty bad, but he's improved recently.
Go EffOrt!
|
FREEAGLELAND26781 Posts
For some reason I associate One Piece with Harem. I don't know why.
|
Almost as if he didn't care in that 2nd game. 3 gate fails ok i lose wanna trade bases again?
....god dam it stork.....
|
|
|
|
|
On August 12 2010 13:16 flamewheel wrote:
For some reason I associate One Piece with Harem. I don't know why.
That's funny, One Piece is one of the last manga to NOT have a harem, or any remote resemblance of romance for that matter. In fact, "love" is a subject to be poked fun at in One Piece.
|
Ares[Effort]
DEMACIA6550 Posts
Thing is even if all the foreigners were active and Pure made it to wcg finals, he would still beat them, no offense but his chances of loosing to foreigners even in their prime is very very slim.
|
On August 12 2010 13:20 dukethegold wrote:Show nested quote +On August 12 2010 13:16 flamewheel wrote:
For some reason I associate One Piece with Harem. I don't know why. That's funny, One Piece is one of the last manga to NOT have a harem, or any remote resemblance of romance for that matter. In fact, "love" is a subject to be poked fun at in One Piece.
He's talking about the poster, lol  .
|
FREEAGLELAND26781 Posts
|
|
|
|
|
Wow effort looks like he's going to die to this ~6 marine no medic timing push? At the very least, he's lost an overlord and a ton of drones, plus all his lings.
He survives, but he's at 13 food vs. 42.
|
On August 12 2010 13:23 QuothTheRaven wrote:
Wow effort looks like he's going to die to this ~6 marine no medic timing push? At the very least, he's lost an overlord and a ton of drones, plus all his lings.
He survives, but he's at 13 food vs. 42.
TIMING ATTACK
IT WASN'T A PUSH
|
|
|
Wow that is some nice rine micro from ForGG.
|
|
|
|
|
its like effort fell asleep and forgot that marines can walk
|
United States33196 Posts
Kwanro and ForGG are so strange, people know that they love the early attacks yet they like losing to them anyway -_-;
|
FREEAGLELAND26781 Posts
Rofl frogg has terrible anti-muta micro.
|
|
|
Effort at 15 drones, ouch.
|
effort making some more drones
he sure could use them lol
|
Muta micro is so imba
|
oh my god these posts are so unhelpful. i have no idea what's going on;;
|
Effort is catching up on the food count. Go go go go!
|
lolwat.
THIS GAME
EVEN FOOD?
WTF
|
FREEAGLELAND26781 Posts
|
Wow lmao mutas gonna win effort the game
|
|
|
effort overtaking forgg in food
|
On August 12 2010 13:26 Issor wrote:
oh my god these posts are so unhelpful. i have no idea what's going on;;
Forgg does this 6(?) marine timing attack. Effort loses like 5-6 drones and tons of lings.
Then his mutas come out and he micros like a fucking champ into even supply.
|
Forgg caught Effort by suprise with 6 marines.
|
Even if Effort loses this game everyone needs to watch that. Harassing between the nat and main with massive turrets and a bunker and still raping.
|
effort decides its time to take a 3rd
|
On August 12 2010 13:27 King K. Rool wrote:Show nested quote +On August 12 2010 13:26 Issor wrote:
oh my god these posts are so unhelpful. i have no idea what's going on;; Forgg does this 6(?) marine timing attack. Effort loses like 5-6 drones and tons of lings. Then his mutas come out and he micros like a fucking champ into even supply.
Ahhh, thank you.
ForGG fighting etc
|
|
|
effort has a den and a decent no of drones now
|
OOO Forgg catches mutas unawares, but sort of worth it for effort, delays push enough for lurker to start morphing.
|
FREEAGLELAND26781 Posts
Ouch, three mutas for one marine... yeah...
|
Effort totally focused too much on the mutas, going to die to this attack.
|
On August 12 2010 13:29 NobleHelium wrote:
Effort totally focused too much on the mutas, going to die to this attack.
hes got lurkers
|
Lurkers stop the Terran advance. Effort's still got a chance in this!
|
FREEAGLELAND26781 Posts
Lurkers out for EffOrt, fOrGG repelled for now. EffOrt behind in food 58-74.
|
|
|
Nice baited stop lurkers. Rest of marines retreat from the third LOL JUST IN TIME FOR 2 LURKERS TO GO IN.
|
Hong Kong20321 Posts
WOW THIS game is super tense!! >_<
|
hold lurkers help kill a bunch of marines
effort gets 2 lurkers at his 3rd now
|
FREEAGLELAND26781 Posts
STOP LURKER RAPE!
54-70 still though.
fOrGG going for third.
Defending lurkers taken out, hatch under fire.
|
Hong Kong20321 Posts
NOOOOOOOOOOOoooooooo EFFORTTTT
|
FREEAGLELAND26781 Posts
Two marines and like 6 medics finish off the third hahaha.
|
|
|
No more mutas. 3rd base down. :[...
|
FREEAGLELAND26781 Posts
Hmm I don't think consume is going to finish in time...
Backstab!
But beaten off.
DEFILER FAIL.
|
|
|
Consume out in time. This is tense.
|
|
|
FREEAGLELAND26781 Posts
1:30 goes down again hahaha.
|
effort slowly withering away
|
FREEAGLELAND26781 Posts
|
Effort cant get a 3rd, he's about to die.
|
Lmao too much to fight back it seemed. Muta micro was intense. GG.
|
|
|
|
|
FREEAGLELAND26781 Posts
GG lol.
Muta micro was good, but not enough.
|
Poll: Recommend Game?Yes (15) 83% No (2) 11% Watch if you have time (1) 6% 18 total votes Your vote: Recommend Game? (Vote): Yes
(Vote): No
(Vote): Watch if you have time
|
|
|
I like ForGG's aggressive play this game :D a nice breath of fresh air from the turtle terrans. Just what I prefer : )
|
Philadelphia, PA10406 Posts
On August 12 2010 13:37 flamewheel wrote:
GG lol.
Muta micro was good, but not enough.
It was two marines short. Exciting game though, if that defiler had made it to that group of lurkers EffOrt might've force the nat to lift and it could've been a different game there too. Tough map for zerg.
EffOrt can pull it back, though. Go go go!
|
Fenrax
United States5018 Posts
Man Effort played AWESOME. He fought so incredibly hard after that game was already lost after 4 minutes and NEARLY got back in. True fighting spirit.
|
Good, just one more, Forgg.
|
Voted yes to recommend, but only for the sexy rine attack in the first 5 minutes. Rest of the game was so-so.
|
I'm sad for forgg, he has to play flash later today
|
muta harass did quite a good job but the first timing attack was the reason why lurkers and 3rd expo were so delayed.
|
I hope ForGG beats Effort for reasons other than KTism. I don't want what happened last time with Much in OSL and Stork in WCG to happen again, today, with Effort and Flash. If he comes out of WCG and MSL today with one win he hopefully won't slump again.
|
the music! thats a nirvana song :D great version of it 
OK forGG time to dieee!
|
|
|
Effort runs by the bunker with 8 lings.
How did forGG not see that coming? -_-
|
forGG manages to clean up the zerglings with relatively little consequence.
|
Think he lost about 4 SCVs. Effort going 3 hatch muta/ling.
|
i really hope effort doesnt lose to a dud like forgg
|
I really hate Effort's play style, why not sit back and macro and give us entertaining games with big armies instead of stupid "early aggression/rush" that ruins the game.
|
On August 12 2010 13:50 kmdarkmaster wrote:
I really hate Effort's play style, why not sit back and macro and give us entertaining games with big armies instead of stupid "early aggression/rush" that ruins the game.
this IS interesting
|
AHHHHHH effort runs into forgg's base with mutas, forgg looked like he was going for counter but backs off.
|
lol forgg runs halfway to efforts nat then decides to turn back
|
|
|
On August 12 2010 13:50 JohnColtrane wrote:Show nested quote +On August 12 2010 13:50 kmdarkmaster wrote:
I really hate Effort's play style, why not sit back and macro and give us entertaining games with big armies instead of stupid "early aggression/rush" that ruins the game. this IS interesting
agreed. starcraft is just as much about intense, early game micro fights as it is about big macro wars.
|
|
|
On August 12 2010 13:50 kmdarkmaster wrote:
I really hate Effort's play style, why not sit back and macro and give us entertaining games with big armies instead of stupid "early aggression/rush" that ruins the game.
um...maybe because if he tried that ForGG would run over him with his giant 4 rax army? lol
|
|
|
7 or so lurkers morphing at efforts nat
|
forgg with a bunch of marines and junk moving out
|
defiler den not even done yet, wont have consume for a while
|
|
|
g spire up, guards morphing
|
On August 12 2010 13:50 JohnColtrane wrote:Show nested quote +On August 12 2010 13:50 kmdarkmaster wrote:
I really hate Effort's play style, why not sit back and macro and give us entertaining games with big armies instead of stupid "early aggression/rush" that ruins the game. this IS interesting
How is it interesting seeing 6 zerglings vs 12 SCV or 2 control groups of hydra vs 3 zealots ?
I prefer max 200/200 army battle from both side after some 15+ minute than a <5 minute game with zergling fighting workers.
|
ForGG so fun to watch hahaha. Running past Dswarm
|
On August 12 2010 13:56 kmdarkmaster wrote:Show nested quote +On August 12 2010 13:50 JohnColtrane wrote:On August 12 2010 13:50 kmdarkmaster wrote:
I really hate Effort's play style, why not sit back and macro and give us entertaining games with big armies instead of stupid "early aggression/rush" that ruins the game. this IS interesting How is it interesting seeing 6 zerglings vs 12 SCV or 2 control groups of hydra vs 3 zealots ? I prefer max 200/200 army battle from both side after some 15+ minute than a <5 minute game with zergling fighting workers.
because theres much more micro and less inefficient unit wasting compared to large scale battles
|
Lmfao forgg runs past the 2 lurkers. Seems like pretty obvious thing to do but no one every does it
WHOA shit gets sandwiched. Effort slaughters all rines in his base.
|
forgg still on two bases, hes gonna get bone dry pretty soon
|
|
|
On August 12 2010 13:56 kmdarkmaster wrote:Show nested quote +On August 12 2010 13:50 JohnColtrane wrote:On August 12 2010 13:50 kmdarkmaster wrote:
I really hate Effort's play style, why not sit back and macro and give us entertaining games with big armies instead of stupid "early aggression/rush" that ruins the game. this IS interesting How is it interesting seeing 6 zerglings vs 12 SCV or 2 control groups of hydra vs 3 zealots ? I prefer max 200/200 army battle from both side after some 15+ minute than a <5 minute game with zergling fighting workers.
And I like both. There's a reason why progames have no 10-minute-no-rush rules.
|
effort gets his 3rd up, big supply deficit in favour of forgg
|
Man I always find it so weird how zerg is like 40 supply behind
WOW firebat galre.
|
Hong Kong20321 Posts
holy shit so many firebats
|
|
|
I'm so glad ForGG didn't switch to mech
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Philadelphia, PA10406 Posts
|
Wow... this is a really good game. Effort and ForGG should play more often : )
|
|
|
|
|
Hahaha firebats > everything not lurkers.
|
And forgg just kind of a-moves into both fronts and is killing effort.
ZvT has been looking pretty miserable lately.
edit: effort manages to hold out.
|
|
|
|
|
Hong Kong20321 Posts
what the fuck when did forgg tvz become so good lol
|
On August 12 2010 14:02 alffla wrote:
what the fuck when did forgg tvz become so good lol
There once was a terran who 3-0'd Jaedong.
Both are on KT. 8)
|
Jesus christ that timing was amazing
|
FREEAGLELAND26781 Posts
On August 12 2010 14:03 phyren wrote:
Jesus christ that timing was amazing
I really feel like that describe's fOrGG's TvZ in one sentence hahaha.
|
It's uncanny how he knew to attack so perfectly before ultras.
|
|
|
On August 12 2010 14:03 phyren wrote:
Jesus christ that timing was amazing
Yea he caught effort before the ultra switch came in. Probably all those attacks that made Effort waste gas on lurkers to defend.
|
|
|
effort is still in the game somehow
|
|
|
omg ForGG come on dude. You sealed this game 5 minutes ago. Just fucking defend your expo
|
Efforts last ultras don't know where to go.
They decide to they their luck at 3 oclock, take out the tanks, and die to reinforcements.
|
1 drop in effort's main would finish this :/ he can't let effort back in this.
|
Hong Kong20321 Posts
wow effort and forgg deliverrr the good gamess
|
very thrilling game, recommended imho.
imho effort is gonna win this...
|
I hope effort wins, i want to see a third game :D.
|
What the fuck? Effort tripled expanded?
|
Why is forgg not countering T__T
|
Hong Kong20321 Posts
|
SO MANY MEDICS
WOW
MARINE SLAUGHTER
BUT FORGG STILL HAS ALOT
|
Hong Kong20321 Posts
oh shi too many marines though >_<
|
lol more medics than marines xD
|
ForGG moving on the offensive now, going to finish off Effort's main and nat.
Effort trying to stall for time to get his expos up.
Forgg moves in, Effort surrounds him nicely taking out most of the marines, but ForGG still ends up on top, barely.
The attack on the nat commences.
|
On August 12 2010 14:08 alffla wrote:
wow effort and forgg deliverrr the good gamess
Yeah definitely. Their GOM series was also awesome ^^
|
FREEAGLELAND26781 Posts
This game is impressive o.0
|
I wish he would use defilers more
|
On August 12 2010 14:10 Nytefish wrote:I wish he would use defilers more
He doesn't have a mound lol.
|
Effort's gonna win >< ughhh
|
3 mining bases to 1.
Not looking good for forGG
|
Hong Kong20321 Posts
oeffort needs to get defilers againn
|
FORGG BUILD 2 BUNKERS AT 3 AND GG THIS SHIT ALREADY
|
|
|
Wow effort should have this game haha
|
On August 12 2010 14:01 Ace wrote:
Effort about to GG
F-A-I-L
|
On August 12 2010 14:10 King K. Rool wrote:He doesn't have a mound lol.
Haha I haven't been focusing on the game much and just noticed his main was missing.
|
|
|
Wow ForGG you are terrible
|
WHAT THE FUCK GG
HOLY SHIT
THAT WAS THE MOST AMAZING ZVT COMEBACK I'VE SEEN IN A LOOOOOONNNNNNNNG TIME
|
WTF ForGG
How did you lose that.
|
wow
great play by effort
awesome
|
Bah, I can't believe he waited long enough for Effort to get 9 and 6.5 up again. He should have moved up on the main a few minutes ago.
|
FREEAGLELAND26781 Posts
|
Philadelphia, PA10406 Posts
EFFORT! EFFORT! EFFORT!
SHEER FUCKING FORCE OF WILL!
|
|
|
Fenrax
United States5018 Posts
|
|
|
HOLY NUTS, Yes Effort!!!!
|
Hong Kong20321 Posts
LOL epic i guess he just needs to get 214214 ultralisks and win.
wow how did effort win i thoguht he was dead when 2 huge groups of firebats were raping his bases
|
|
|
Wow ForGG...
Nice comeback by effort though
|
Hahaha, Effort's second ultra cavern built soon before his hive went down won him the game.
|
WOW, nice comeback effort!!!
|
|
|
such an awesome comeback
there were many many times i tough effort was done
superb
|
NICE COMEBACK EFFORT!
i totally recommend that game
sad i won't be able to see set3. too late for me. cya
|
On August 12 2010 14:12 Graham wrote:
WTF ForGG
How did you lose that.
lol...that was terrible...isntaed of attacking while effort attacked he waited until effort killed everything, retreated his ultras and then attacked...
|
|
|
Man, that was such bad play from ForGG. Take the fucking bottom right main and turtle with tanks Flash style and it's GG.
|
That was one of the best comebacks ever
|
We need that Savior vs Iris @ Arkanoid type results. RAWR :O
|
ultralisks so freaking good against bio, so wonder terrans been going for the mech transition...=D
|
WHAT!!! i saw effort getting his natural + expansion natural demolished and he wins... i must see this
|
haha i switched the game off when effort lost 2 hatches at once, i was like "how did forgg win that"?
answer: he didn't rofl
|
reminded me of JD vs flash
|
FREEAGLELAND26781 Posts
Time to write a BR for this game!
|
I was not expecting this. Especially without defilers, but effort did it. Zerg power!
|
Forgg was playing really good for a while, but that was pretty lousy at the end.
Why did he float his CC for like 5 minutes across the map? Did he think the 12 o'clock expo was just completely undefendable? It's not like Effort had defilers.
|
lol Effort with epic comeback!
but yeah...terrible play for forgg.
maybe effort has a chance to win the series, i dunno...
|
Terrible terrible terrible play by ForGG.
Once again Effort lucks a win through his opponent's stupidity.
|
You know what they say about ZvT.
1 ling 2 ling 3 ling 4, camp 4 gas then ultra whore.
Epic comeback, recommended.
|
Holy shit.
Those sandwiches on those marines were so sexy.
|
FFFFFFFF- fOrGG. He took a lesson from Hyuk before this game.
|
Huge mistake by Forgg in not securing another expo. Awesome comeback by Effort, though.
|
|
|
OMG incredeable multitasking , Great comeback. I bet 90 % zergs would GG at 20 minute.
|
|
|
United States7481 Posts
all the people calling it "most amazing comeback ever" are ignoring the fact that effort was ahead for a good 90% of the game, way ahead early then still at an advantage late when his ultra cavern was still up?
|
Still can't believe Effort won that
|
How could they not install an air conditioner in the booth ? Screw organizer you really damage your company's image when you let programers sweet like that in the booth.
|
On August 12 2010 14:14 Antoine wrote:
all the people calling it "most amazing comeback ever" are ignoring the fact that effort was ahead for a good 90% of the game, way ahead early then still at an advantage late when his ultra cavern was still up?
??? did you miss the part of the game where Effort was down by like 40 supply?
|
On August 12 2010 14:14 monstar123 wrote:
OMG incredeable multitasking , Great comeback. I bet 90 % zergs would GG at 20 minute.
I fail to see what incredible play or multitasking Effort did.
He basically just kept making Ultras on a two-base economy, which eventually overwhelmed a stupid one-base M&M terran.
|
On August 12 2010 14:14 Antoine wrote:
all the people calling it "most amazing comeback ever" are ignoring the fact that effort was ahead for a good 90% of the game, way ahead early then still at an advantage late when his ultra cavern was still up?
Wow, what game were you watching?
|
On August 12 2010 14:15 Ace wrote:Show nested quote +On August 12 2010 14:14 Antoine wrote:
all the people calling it "most amazing comeback ever" are ignoring the fact that effort was ahead for a good 90% of the game, way ahead early then still at an advantage late when his ultra cavern was still up? ??? did you miss the part of the game where Effort was down by like 40 supply?
And lost all of his tech buildings.
|
is awesome32271 Posts
On August 12 2010 14:13 okum wrote:
Terrible terrible terrible play by ForGG.
Once again Effort lucks a win through his opponent's stupidity.
What? did you see EffOrt's army movements? he completely set forGG off. He also made amazing flanks, always sending Ultras first making sure forGG focus fire them and then sending the lings, perfect arcs, etc.
He also made his ultra worth it, not sending them to die each time he attacked like most Z's do.
|
On August 12 2010 14:16 SimonB wrote:Show nested quote +On August 12 2010 14:14 monstar123 wrote:
OMG incredeable multitasking , Great comeback. I bet 90 % zergs would GG at 20 minute. I fail to see what incredible play or multitasking Effort did. He basically just kept making Ultras on a two-base economy, which eventually overwhelmed a stupid one-base M&M terran.
Most zergs in that situation would have been at lost as to what to do. this is great decision making we are seeing here. comebacks against Terran is so so difficult to pull off, comebacks against zergs, not so much.
|
WTF FORGG? Why didn't you finish the bunker?!?!?! He's at a huge disadvantage now... my mind is spinning.
|
Effort had amazing flanks, and constant harassment on the 3 oclock, and preserved ultras pretty well.
|
United States7481 Posts
On August 12 2010 14:15 Ace wrote:Show nested quote +On August 12 2010 14:14 Antoine wrote:
all the people calling it "most amazing comeback ever" are ignoring the fact that effort was ahead for a good 90% of the game, way ahead early then still at an advantage late when his ultra cavern was still up? ??? did you miss the part of the game where Effort was down by like 40 supply?
that would be the 10% of the game he was behind
|
Proxy rax ->bunker rush vs fast expand. Effort microes his drones like a champ and stalls.
|
effort with a big advantage now
|
forgg loves 2 factory against zerg..o-o
|
stupid zergling rush again, I become too sick of that now.
|
On August 12 2010 14:21 DMXD wrote:
forgg loves 2 factory against zerg..o-o
considering his position it's almost certainly 2 fact goliath though
|
effort pumping drones like no tomorow
|
Philadelphia, PA10406 Posts
On August 12 2010 14:19 Antoine wrote:Show nested quote +On August 12 2010 14:15 Ace wrote:On August 12 2010 14:14 Antoine wrote:
all the people calling it "most amazing comeback ever" are ignoring the fact that effort was ahead for a good 90% of the game, way ahead early then still at an advantage late when his ultra cavern was still up? ??? did you miss the part of the game where Effort was down by like 40 supply? that would be the 10% of the game he was behind
What is it they say about haters?
Meanwhile, in game 3, fOrGG proxy-rax bunker rushes, but EffOrt deflects it. Barracks and zerglings race for forGG's choke, and the barracks wins. EffOrt kills the supply depot in anger, but scvs block it off, and forGG doesn't die to the first six lings. forGG meching, two factories, one base, with goliaths. Three hatch hydra from EffOrt, which means... he knows!
|
On August 12 2010 14:21 kmdarkmaster wrote:
stupid zergling rush again, I become too sick of that now.
hahahaha what.
|
On August 12 2010 14:21 kmdarkmaster wrote:
stupid zergling rush again, I become too sick of that now.
lmao what? Who zergling rushed?
|
On August 12 2010 14:21 kmdarkmaster wrote:
stupid zergling rush again, I become too sick of that now.
That's a standard response to the forward rax. If he had snuck lings into ForGG's main, it would've been bad for the terran.
|
is awesome32271 Posts
On August 12 2010 14:21 kmdarkmaster wrote:
stupid zergling rush again, I become too sick of that now.
LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOL
|
On August 12 2010 14:21 kmdarkmaster wrote:
stupid zergling rush again, I become too sick of that now.
LOOOOOL
have you ever even played this game?
|
I think fOrGG's getting charon boosters vs hydras, or has he canceled it by now
|
United States7481 Posts
On August 12 2010 14:21 tree.hugger wrote:Show nested quote +On August 12 2010 14:19 Antoine wrote:On August 12 2010 14:15 Ace wrote:On August 12 2010 14:14 Antoine wrote:
all the people calling it "most amazing comeback ever" are ignoring the fact that effort was ahead for a good 90% of the game, way ahead early then still at an advantage late when his ultra cavern was still up? ??? did you miss the part of the game where Effort was down by like 40 supply? that would be the 10% of the game he was behind What is it they say about haters? Meanwhile, in game 3, fOrGG proxy-rax bunker rushes, but EffOrt deflects it. Barracks and zerglings race for forGG's choke, and the barracks wins. EffOrt kills the supply depot in anger, but scvs block it off, and forGG doesn't die to the first six lings. forGG meching, two factories, one base, with goliaths.
How am I a hater? I'm giving him credit for preventing the 3rd for so long early and having the foresight to add an extra ultra cavern, knowing it would be enormously successful against the bio of forGG.
|
Philadelphia, PA10406 Posts
On August 12 2010 14:22 IntoTheWow wrote:Show nested quote +On August 12 2010 14:21 kmdarkmaster wrote:
stupid zergling rush again, I become too sick of that now. LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOL
LOL haters.
Bisu's watching this and saying "I know this build."
On August 12 2010 14:23 Antoine wrote:Show nested quote +On August 12 2010 14:21 tree.hugger wrote:On August 12 2010 14:19 Antoine wrote:On August 12 2010 14:15 Ace wrote:On August 12 2010 14:14 Antoine wrote:
all the people calling it "most amazing comeback ever" are ignoring the fact that effort was ahead for a good 90% of the game, way ahead early then still at an advantage late when his ultra cavern was still up? ??? did you miss the part of the game where Effort was down by like 40 supply? that would be the 10% of the game he was behind What is it they say about haters? Meanwhile, in game 3, fOrGG proxy-rax bunker rushes, but EffOrt deflects it. Barracks and zerglings race for forGG's choke, and the barracks wins. EffOrt kills the supply depot in anger, but scvs block it off, and forGG doesn't die to the first six lings. forGG meching, two factories, one base, with goliaths. How am I a hater? I'm giving him credit for preventing the 3rd for so long early and having the foresight to add an extra ultra cavern, knowing it would be enormously successful against the bio of forGG.
Just because he had an econ advantage that he later rode to victory does not mean he was ahead. He had to control his army very well to survive the whole second half of that game.
|
I come in and see stork will not represent korea for the first time in 3 years, disappointment. =(
|
why didn't effort finish the bunker....
|
FREEAGLELAND26781 Posts
THE BUNKER LIVES
LOL
JAEDONG VS FLASH HANA DAETOO G3 REPEAT
|
Urk brb hopefully I don't miss the entire game but LR and tell me if you recommend it because these fOrGG vs EffOrt games are AMAZING
|
Effort adding another expand at bottom right, if Forgg doesn't do something now, he will be in trouble.
|
Effort just lost a ton of mutas for nothing.
|
Effort finally realizes mass expanding and pumping hydra/muta works vs mech
|
Philadelphia, PA10406 Posts
|
|
|
They trade armies, but now Effort's macro should be kicking in.
|
who needs siege mode anyway..
|
armies traded, good for the zerg
|
No seige for forgg.
All of efforts shit dies, but forgg down to one tank, one goli.
WORTH IT.
Oh wait here's another small army at his base, still not enough, hydra production > tank/goli.
|
lollll did ForGG really forget siege
|
ForGG comes out on top of an epic struggle (barely, with 1 tank and 2 goliath).
However, Effort can replish his army much faster with his econ.
|
Forgg, still no siege.
Not having a lot of confidence in you lately.
|
Both trade armies, which sucks for ForGG because now he has to wait for more tanks off of 2 facts to push out.
|
Philadelphia, PA10406 Posts
EffOrt knows how to play against mech. Surely he's unbeatable now.
GG. YEAH EFFORT! COMEBACKUUUUU
That game was completely inevitable, no way forGG was winning game three after what happened in game two.
|
Forgg GGs. And there goes my liquidbet XD.
|
I don't think I've ever seen effort react correctly to mech like this before.
Getting his 5th base, fourth gas at forgg's top left.
GG.
|
On August 12 2010 14:22 matjlav wrote:Show nested quote +On August 12 2010 14:21 kmdarkmaster wrote:
stupid zergling rush again, I become too sick of that now. LOOOOOL have you ever even played this game?
I'm a protoss player, and i was never get rushed by Terran, but Zerg always do those lame strategies every game, that makes me soo sick. And in the proscene now Effort is the "representative" of that lame play style. Good reason enough to hate that cheeser ?
|
Another showdown in the middle, Effort wins it cause he's on 4 bases :/
Effort now taking ForGG's 4th and attacks.
ForGG GGs.
fuck.
|
lol, always hilarious to read the CJ fan comments.
|
Man, ForGG you could have 2-0'ed easily.
|
Hong Kong20321 Posts
wow sick gg efffort kills the fUCKIN meCH!!
|
FREEAGLELAND26781 Posts
LOL EFFORT MOVES ONNNNNNNNN
|
great job effort, i'm glad you're through
|
wow, effort's drone micro was insane, and his macro good too, 4 bases under 200 min/gas
|
wow. game 2 and 3 were epic epic fail by forgg.
|
Why was his siege so late? He could've held off that first attack by effort much better if he had siege.
|
is awesome32271 Posts
On August 12 2010 14:29 kmdarkmaster wrote:Show nested quote +On August 12 2010 14:22 matjlav wrote:On August 12 2010 14:21 kmdarkmaster wrote:
stupid zergling rush again, I become too sick of that now. LOOOOOL have you ever even played this game? I'm a protoss player, and i was never get rushed by Terran, but Zerg always do those lame strategies every game, that makes me soo sick. And in the proscene now Effort is the "representative" of that lame play style. Good reason enough to hate that cheeser ?
In case you didn't notice. EffOrt didn't rush that game. forGG did though!
|
|
|
On August 12 2010 14:29 kmdarkmaster wrote:Show nested quote +On August 12 2010 14:22 matjlav wrote:On August 12 2010 14:21 kmdarkmaster wrote:
stupid zergling rush again, I become too sick of that now. LOOOOOL have you ever even played this game? I'm a protoss player, and i was never get rushed by Terran, but Zerg always do those lame strategies every game, that makes me soo sick. And in the proscene now Effort is the "representative" of that lame play style. Good reason enough to hate that cheeser ?
I guess you haven't played starcraft enough then.
|
Haha wow, fOrGG fails so hard.
|
On August 12 2010 14:29 kmdarkmaster wrote:Show nested quote +On August 12 2010 14:22 matjlav wrote:On August 12 2010 14:21 kmdarkmaster wrote:
stupid zergling rush again, I become too sick of that now. LOOOOOL have you ever even played this game? I'm a protoss player, and i was never get rushed by Terran, but Zerg always do those lame strategies every game, that makes me soo sick. And in the proscene now Effort is the "representative" of that lame play style. Good reason enough to hate that cheeser ?
TL is the last place on the internet you'd want to spout biased, and wrong, SC knowledge. This will be fun to read.
|
United States7481 Posts
On August 12 2010 14:30 Black Gun wrote:
wow. game 2 and 3 were epic epic fail by forgg.
game 3 i can agree, game 2 it was a miracle he got ahead at all after how far behind he was early
|
After being raped by Light last week with mech Effort says fuck it and gets +1 air Carapace, +1 hydra weapons and mass expands.
Gets the win.
|
On August 12 2010 14:29 kmdarkmaster wrote:Show nested quote +On August 12 2010 14:22 matjlav wrote:On August 12 2010 14:21 kmdarkmaster wrote:
stupid zergling rush again, I become too sick of that now. LOOOOOL have you ever even played this game? I'm a protoss player, and i was never get rushed by Terran, but Zerg always do those lame strategies every game, that makes me soo sick. And in the proscene now Effort is the "representative" of that lame play style. Good reason enough to hate that cheeser ?
haha it's called a ling run-by and it costs 150 minerals, it's not a rush at all just a cheap way to do some economic damage
|
that was a terrible game by ForGG. He should know better that zergs can replenish their units faster then terran mech. Also during that large battle, there was no siege mode, and he knew that Effort was mass expanding.
|
Fenrax
United States5018 Posts
Effort is effing smart, I can't believe it. This was just awesome in every way. The counter to ForGGs push just before Siege finished was just brilliant.
|
On August 12 2010 14:29 kmdarkmaster wrote:Show nested quote +On August 12 2010 14:22 matjlav wrote:On August 12 2010 14:21 kmdarkmaster wrote:
stupid zergling rush again, I become too sick of that now. LOOOOOL have you ever even played this game? I'm a protoss player, and i was never get rushed by Terran, but Zerg always do those lame strategies every game, that makes me soo sick. And in the proscene now Effort is the "representative" of that lame play style. Good reason enough to hate that cheeser ?
Yeah, you're soooo right. I don't know why Zergs don't just refrain from making units at all until lair tech!
Nice job to Effort, pulling off the 2-1. He seems to have a penchant for winning series just when people least expect it.
|
Philadelphia, PA10406 Posts
On August 12 2010 14:32 FireGuyX wrote:
that was a terrible game by ForGG. He should know better that zergs can replenish their units faster then terran mech. Also during that large battle, there was no siege mode, and he knew that Effort was mass expanding.
His bunker rush just put him too far behind. Simple as that.
On August 12 2010 14:31 Ace wrote:
After being raped by Light last week with mech Effort says fuck it and gets +1 air Carapace, +1 hydra weapons and mass expands.
Gets the win.
I hope he takes that lesson to heart...
|
On August 12 2010 14:29 kmdarkmaster wrote:Show nested quote +On August 12 2010 14:22 matjlav wrote:On August 12 2010 14:21 kmdarkmaster wrote:
stupid zergling rush again, I become too sick of that now. LOOOOOL have you ever even played this game? I'm a protoss player, and i was never get rushed by Terran, but Zerg always do those lame strategies every game, that makes me soo sick. And in the proscene now Effort is the "representative" of that lame play style. Good reason enough to hate that cheeser ?
Not sure if you are a retard or a troll, either way your post is really stupid. Opening 9 pool is considered cheese now? Thats news to me. Not to mention I don't even think he even 9 pooled (although I wasnt paying attention at the beginning). You've never been rushed by a terran? Guess you aren't good enough to try a 14 nexus anyways lol.
|
sigh forgg slump incoming. Just like 08.
|
One less(non-SKT) terran win is always a good thing.
|
On August 12 2010 14:33 tree.hugger wrote:Show nested quote +On August 12 2010 14:32 FireGuyX wrote:
that was a terrible game by ForGG. He should know better that zergs can replenish their units faster then terran mech. Also during that large battle, there was no siege mode, and he knew that Effort was mass expanding. His bunker rush just put him too far behind. Simple as that.
Oh I didn't see the beginning.
|
On August 12 2010 14:33 Bigpon86 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 12 2010 14:29 kmdarkmaster wrote:On August 12 2010 14:22 matjlav wrote:On August 12 2010 14:21 kmdarkmaster wrote:
stupid zergling rush again, I become too sick of that now. LOOOOOL have you ever even played this game? I'm a protoss player, and i was never get rushed by Terran, but Zerg always do those lame strategies every game, that makes me soo sick. And in the proscene now Effort is the "representative" of that lame play style. Good reason enough to hate that cheeser ? Not sure if you are a retard or a troll, either way your post is really stupid. Opening 9 pool is considered cheese now? Thats news to me. Not to mention I don't even think he even 9 pooled (although I wasnt paying attention at the beginning). You've never been rushed by a terran? Guess you aren't good enough to try a 14 nexus anyways lol.
It wasn't a 9 pool, it was 12 hatch with gas before pool. That's what made the defense so amazing.
|
On August 12 2010 14:29 kmdarkmaster wrote:Show nested quote +On August 12 2010 14:22 matjlav wrote:On August 12 2010 14:21 kmdarkmaster wrote:
stupid zergling rush again, I become too sick of that now. LOOOOOL have you ever even played this game? I'm a protoss player, and i was never get rushed by Terran, but Zerg always do those lame strategies every game, that makes me soo sick. And in the proscene now Effort is the "representative" of that lame play style. Good reason enough to hate that cheeser ?
How is it possible to post something like this and not get banned? Lol...
|
What gets me is it wasn't just a fail on not getting siege mode. Forgg knew that and he still committed to the fight. He could've easily just backed off a little to hold onto his mech army since there was a choke that Effort wouldn't dare send his hydras through.
So it's like triple fail in that one game alone, forgetting a really awful game 2 ending.
|
On August 12 2010 14:34 Lightwip wrote:
One less(non-SKT) terran win is always a good thing.
Yeah, we had too many of those terran scumbags representing Korea in 2009 and 2008 already. Wait, those were all zerg and protoss.
Edit: though, I'm very happy that ForGG won't get to represent Korea.
|
ForGG should have went mnm. Mech is only effective if done right.
|
Bunker rush transition into mech play is pretty normal.
I think forgg should went two port wraith considering how effort was trash by leta last week.
|
OMG wtf
i stopped watching game 2 when forgg broke effort's nat and 4th, assuming he'd lose. now i find out he came back 2-1?
>.>
|
On August 12 2010 14:35 okum wrote:Show nested quote +On August 12 2010 14:34 Lightwip wrote:
One less(non-SKT) terran win is always a good thing. Yeah, we had too many of those terran scumbags representing Korea in 2009 and 2008 already. Wait, those were all zerg and protoss. Edit: though, I'm very happy that ForGG won't get to represent Korea.
They need to have a Flash icon so the KT posers can move on.
|
On August 12 2010 14:35 okum wrote:Show nested quote +On August 12 2010 14:34 Lightwip wrote:
One less(non-SKT) terran win is always a good thing. Yeah, we had too many of those terran scumbags representing Korea in 2009 and 2008 already. Wait, those were all zerg and protoss. Edit: though, I'm very happy that ForGG won't get to represent Korea.
Terrans are inherently bad to have because of gay turtle mech. Terrans had too many ages of prosperity, they need to go back to mediocrity.
Frankly, I'm tired of seeing terrans win everything. The MSL terran count is just too high.
|
On August 12 2010 14:31 King K. Rool wrote:
I guess you haven't played starcraft enough then.
I tried but my schedule is very heavy.
On August 12 2010 14:31 jalstar wrote:
haha it's called a ling run-by and it costs 150 minerals, it's not a rush at all just a cheap way to do some economic damage
Everything involving aggressive early ling and hydra usage is considered "lame" to me, and who care what is the name loool.
One day I was so sick of those strategies that I downloaded map hack and modified the map so that I have unlimited resources and that marked the doom of those zerg haha. I built like 8 cannons at my nat no lame rush can break this haha. One zerg dropped lurkers into my main and destroyed my nexus but I didn't care I built shitload of cannons in the middle of destination and in my bases and my max 200/200 zeal/goon/templar/reaver with 3/3 upgrades just rolled the map and zerg bases were destroyed one by one. At the end I built like 20 gateways and a-attack the zerg to death haha. When he was near dead I told him I cheated and he was very mad and I was very happy because finally the zerg got punished for their lame rush strategies hahaha.
loool
User was banned for this post.
|
On August 12 2010 14:44 moopie wrote:Show nested quote +On August 12 2010 14:35 okum wrote:On August 12 2010 14:34 Lightwip wrote:
One less(non-SKT) terran win is always a good thing. Yeah, we had too many of those terran scumbags representing Korea in 2009 and 2008 already. Wait, those were all zerg and protoss. Edit: though, I'm very happy that ForGG won't get to represent Korea. They need to have a Flash icon
![[image loading]](http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/images/teams/icons/2.png)
couldn't resist mate
|
On August 12 2010 14:44 Lightwip wrote:Show nested quote +On August 12 2010 14:35 okum wrote:On August 12 2010 14:34 Lightwip wrote:
One less(non-SKT) terran win is always a good thing. Yeah, we had too many of those terran scumbags representing Korea in 2009 and 2008 already. Wait, those were all zerg and protoss. Edit: though, I'm very happy that ForGG won't get to represent Korea. Terrans are inherently bad to have because of gay turtle mech. Terrans had too many ages of prosperity, they need to go back to mediocrity. Frankly, I'm tired of seeing terrans win everything. The MSL terran count is just too high.
What the fuck are you talking about?. What the fuck is this "everything" terrans are winning? -_-
|
On August 12 2010 14:45 kmdarkmaster wrote:
One day I was so sick of those strategies that I downloaded map hack and modified the map so that I have unlimited resources and that marked the doom of those zerg haha. I built like 8 cannons at my nat no lame rush can break this haha. One zerg dropped lurkers into my main and destroyed my nexus but I didn't care I built shitload of cannons in the middle of destination and in my bases and my max 200/200 zeal/goon/templar/reaver with 3/3 upgrades just rolled the map and zerg bases were destroyed one by one. At the end I built like 20 gateways and a-attack the zerg to death haha. When he was near dead I told him I cheated and he was very mad and I was very happy because finally the zerg got punished for their lame rush strategies hahaha.
This post alone is better than most entire LR threads.
|
On August 12 2010 14:45 kmdarkmaster wrote:Show nested quote +On August 12 2010 14:31 King K. Rool wrote:
I guess you haven't played starcraft enough then. I tried but my schedule is very heavy. Show nested quote +On August 12 2010 14:31 jalstar wrote:
haha it's called a ling run-by and it costs 150 minerals, it's not a rush at all just a cheap way to do some economic damage Everything involving aggressive early ling and hydra usage is considered "lame" to me, and who care what is the name loool. One day I was so sick of those strategies that I downloaded map hack and modified the map so that I have unlimited resources and that marked the doom of those zerg haha. I built like 8 cannons at my nat no lame rush can break this haha. One zerg dropped lurkers into my main and destroyed my nexus but I didn't care I built shitload of cannons in the middle of destination and in my bases and my max 200/200 zeal/goon/templar/reaver with 3/3 upgrades just rolled the map and zerg bases were destroyed one by one. At the end I built like 20 gateways and a-attack the zerg to death haha. When he was near dead I told him I cheated and he was very mad and I was very happy because finally the zerg got punished for their lame rush strategies hahaha. loool
you think rushing is lame and then you go ahead and tell us a story about you maphacking and rigging maps?
you wanna know what else is lame, big chief?
|
On August 12 2010 14:46 huameng wrote:Show nested quote +On August 12 2010 14:44 Lightwip wrote:On August 12 2010 14:35 okum wrote:On August 12 2010 14:34 Lightwip wrote:
One less(non-SKT) terran win is always a good thing. Yeah, we had too many of those terran scumbags representing Korea in 2009 and 2008 already. Wait, those were all zerg and protoss. Edit: though, I'm very happy that ForGG won't get to represent Korea. Terrans are inherently bad to have because of gay turtle mech. Terrans had too many ages of prosperity, they need to go back to mediocrity. Frankly, I'm tired of seeing terrans win everything. The MSL terran count is just too high. What the fuck are you talking about?. What the fuck is this "everything" terrans are winning? -_-
He's mad about NaDa, Oov and Flash, and forgetting about Bisu, JD, Savior and July.
|
On August 12 2010 14:48 moopie wrote:Show nested quote +On August 12 2010 14:46 huameng wrote:On August 12 2010 14:44 Lightwip wrote:On August 12 2010 14:35 okum wrote:On August 12 2010 14:34 Lightwip wrote:
One less(non-SKT) terran win is always a good thing. Yeah, we had too many of those terran scumbags representing Korea in 2009 and 2008 already. Wait, those were all zerg and protoss. Edit: though, I'm very happy that ForGG won't get to represent Korea. Terrans are inherently bad to have because of gay turtle mech. Terrans had too many ages of prosperity, they need to go back to mediocrity. Frankly, I'm tired of seeing terrans win everything. The MSL terran count is just too high. What the fuck are you talking about?. What the fuck is this "everything" terrans are winning? -_- He's mad about NaDa and Flash, and forgetting about Bisu, JD, Savior and July.
dont forget boxer and oov
|
On August 12 2010 14:46 huameng wrote:Show nested quote +On August 12 2010 14:44 Lightwip wrote:On August 12 2010 14:35 okum wrote:On August 12 2010 14:34 Lightwip wrote:
One less(non-SKT) terran win is always a good thing. Yeah, we had too many of those terran scumbags representing Korea in 2009 and 2008 already. Wait, those were all zerg and protoss. Edit: though, I'm very happy that ForGG won't get to represent Korea. Terrans are inherently bad to have because of gay turtle mech. Terrans had too many ages of prosperity, they need to go back to mediocrity. Frankly, I'm tired of seeing terrans win everything. The MSL terran count is just too high. What the fuck are you talking about?. What the fuck is this "everything" terrans are winning? -_-
MSL Ro8.
Also, there's been quite a few nights with 4 terrans and 4 terran wins because of turtle mech.
Not really something I like, at all.
|
On August 12 2010 14:44 Lightwip wrote:Show nested quote +On August 12 2010 14:35 okum wrote:On August 12 2010 14:34 Lightwip wrote:
One less(non-SKT) terran win is always a good thing. Yeah, we had too many of those terran scumbags representing Korea in 2009 and 2008 already. Wait, those were all zerg and protoss. Edit: though, I'm very happy that ForGG won't get to represent Korea. Terrans are inherently bad to have because of gay turtle mech. Terrans had too many ages of prosperity, they need to go back to mediocrity. Frankly, I'm tired of seeing terrans win everything. The MSL terran count is just too high.
Things terran have won in the last 2 years:
Flash, Hana Daetoo MSL 2010
Flash, Ever OSL 2009
ForGG, Arena MSL 2008
Going all the way back to 2007 gives us
Flash, Bacchus OSL 2008
Mind, GOMTV3 MSL 2007
That's it. 5 titles in over 3 years. 9 seasons. 18 MSLs/OSLs.
|
On August 12 2010 14:54 TwoToneTerran wrote:Show nested quote +On August 12 2010 14:44 Lightwip wrote:On August 12 2010 14:35 okum wrote:On August 12 2010 14:34 Lightwip wrote:
One less(non-SKT) terran win is always a good thing. Yeah, we had too many of those terran scumbags representing Korea in 2009 and 2008 already. Wait, those were all zerg and protoss. Edit: though, I'm very happy that ForGG won't get to represent Korea. Terrans are inherently bad to have because of gay turtle mech. Terrans had too many ages of prosperity, they need to go back to mediocrity. Frankly, I'm tired of seeing terrans win everything. The MSL terran count is just too high. Things terran have won in the last 2 years: Flash, Hana Daetoo MSL 2010 Flash, Ever OSL 2009 ForGG, Arena MSL 2008
Arena MSL isn't the last 2 years anymore. If you want to be all-inclusive, you can add:
Flash, GOMTV Classic Season 3, 2009.
|
On August 12 2010 14:44 moopie wrote:Show nested quote +On August 12 2010 14:35 okum wrote:On August 12 2010 14:34 Lightwip wrote:
One less(non-SKT) terran win is always a good thing. Yeah, we had too many of those terran scumbags representing Korea in 2009 and 2008 already. Wait, those were all zerg and protoss. Edit: though, I'm very happy that ForGG won't get to represent Korea. They need to have a Flash icon so the KT posers can move on.
The way ForGG was playing today, he was an embarrassment to KT.
|
Edited the post to be a little more concise. Since the fall of Savior it's been 4 protoss, 5 terran, and the rest zerg. Zerg has utterly and completely dominated the scene, titlewise, for a decent bit.
|
just replace the KT icon with a picture of Flash drinking pocari sweat
|
is awesome32271 Posts
On August 12 2010 14:57 TwoToneTerran wrote:
Edited the post to be a little more concise. Since the fall of Savior it's been 4 protoss, 5 terran, and the rest zerg. Zerg has utterly and completely dominated the scene, titlewise, for a decent bit.
That's saying a bit too much. It would be like saying the Swiss have been dominating tennis for the past 5 years, or something like that.
What would be interesting would be to recompile stats from ro8 onwards or something like that. Maybe with a weighted system. ro32 1 pt per player of each race, ro16 2 points and so on. See how many points each race has.
|
On August 12 2010 15:02 IntoTheWow wrote:Show nested quote +On August 12 2010 14:57 TwoToneTerran wrote:
Edited the post to be a little more concise. Since the fall of Savior it's been 4 protoss, 5 terran, and the rest zerg. Zerg has utterly and completely dominated the scene, titlewise, for a decent bit. That's saying a bit too much. It would be like saying the Swiss have been dominating tennis for the past 5 years, or something like that. What would be interesting would be to recompile stats from ro8 onwards or something like that. Maybe with a weighted system. ro32 1 pt per player of each race, ro16 2 points and so on. See how many points each race has.
should take about 20 minutes, I'll get on it
|
Hmm, both polls were wrong.
Way to let me down Stork, we're really short on potentially good toss right now.
|
On August 12 2010 14:57 okum wrote:Show nested quote +On August 12 2010 14:44 moopie wrote:On August 12 2010 14:35 okum wrote:On August 12 2010 14:34 Lightwip wrote:
One less(non-SKT) terran win is always a good thing. Yeah, we had too many of those terran scumbags representing Korea in 2009 and 2008 already. Wait, those were all zerg and protoss. Edit: though, I'm very happy that ForGG won't get to represent Korea. They need to have a Flash icon so the KT posers can move on. The way ForGG was playing today, he was an embarrassment to KT.
For real? The first two games were action-packed. Losing doesn't equate embarassment... bad showing does.
|
omg a WCG without Stork :'(
I am so disappointed. Bisu out of leagues and Stork out of WCG....
|
is awesome32271 Posts
On August 12 2010 15:05 TwoToneTerran wrote:Show nested quote +On August 12 2010 15:02 IntoTheWow wrote:On August 12 2010 14:57 TwoToneTerran wrote:
Edited the post to be a little more concise. Since the fall of Savior it's been 4 protoss, 5 terran, and the rest zerg. Zerg has utterly and completely dominated the scene, titlewise, for a decent bit. That's saying a bit too much. It would be like saying the Swiss have been dominating tennis for the past 5 years, or something like that. What would be interesting would be to recompile stats from ro8 onwards or something like that. Maybe with a weighted system. ro32 1 pt per player of each race, ro16 2 points and so on. See how many points each race has. should take about 20 minutes, I'll get on it
Awesome, can't wait for it!
|
The fighting spirit win was Effort's 200th win and 150th televised win. What a way to set that milestone.
|
Holy shit Effort won? I stopped watching game 2 when Effort lost two of his bases and figured there was no way he could win at that point against a 3 base Terran.
|
Lots of funky games tonight. Disappointed that stork couldn't make it through
|
On August 12 2010 15:30 DarkMatter_ wrote:
Holy shit Effort won? I stopped watching game 2 when Effort lost two of his bases and figured there was no way he could win at that point against a 3 base Terran.
lol me too
|
TwoToneTerran's looks better.
sorry for ninja'ing,but i didn't refresh the thread.
|
On August 12 2010 15:11 IntoTheWow wrote:Show nested quote +On August 12 2010 15:05 TwoToneTerran wrote:On August 12 2010 15:02 IntoTheWow wrote:On August 12 2010 14:57 TwoToneTerran wrote:
Edited the post to be a little more concise. Since the fall of Savior it's been 4 protoss, 5 terran, and the rest zerg. Zerg has utterly and completely dominated the scene, titlewise, for a decent bit. That's saying a bit too much. It would be like saying the Swiss have been dominating tennis for the past 5 years, or something like that. What would be interesting would be to recompile stats from ro8 onwards or something like that. Maybe with a weighted system. ro32 1 pt per player of each race, ro16 2 points and so on. See how many points each race has. should take about 20 minutes, I'll get on it Awesome, can't wait for it!
Okay, just got done with the MSL, this is gonna be a longish post so brace yourselves. I'm starting right with the fall of savior MSL, if everyone's alright with that. The scoring will be Ro32 = 1 point, Ro16 = 2 points, Ro8 = 4 poinst, Ro4 = 8 points, Ro2 = 16, Winner = 20 (32 seems a bit high, it's easy enough to change to that if you want though).
GomTV MSL1 (addendum: the old tl archive doesn't have a Ro32, so we'll just treat its Ro16 like every other Ro16)
Ro16: 5 Zerg, 5 Protoss, 6 Terran
Ro8: 2 Zerg, 2 protoss, 5 Terran
Ro4: 1 Zerg, 2 protoss, 1 Terran
Ro2: 1 Zerg, 1 Protoss
W: 1 Protoss
Overall:
Zerg, 42
Protoss: 70
Terran: 40
GomTV MSL 2
Ro32: 7 zerg, 8 protoss, 17 terran
Ro16: 4 Zerg, 4 protoss, 8 terran
Ro8: 3 Zerg, 2 protoss, 3 Terran
Ro4: 1 zerg, 2 protoss, 1 terran
Ro2: 2 protoss
W: 1 protoss
Overall:
Zerg: 35
Protoss: 92 (PvP finals yaaaa)
Terran: 53
GomTV MSL 3:
Ro32: 7 zerg, 7 protoss, 18 terran
Ro16: 3 zerg, 4 protoss, 9 terran
Ro8: 2 zerg, 3 protoss, 3 terran
Ro4: 3 protoss, 1 terran
Ro2: 1 protoss, 1 Terran
W: 1 Terran (where did you go Mind D: )
Overall:
Zerg: 21 (goddamn)
Protoss: 67
Terran 88
GomTV MSL 4:
Ro32: 10 zerg, 7 protoss, 15 terran
Ro16: 5 zerg, 3 protoss, 8 terran
Ro8: 1 zerg, 2 protoss, 5 terran
Ro4: 1 zerg, 2 protoss, 1 terran
Ro2: 1 zerg, 1 protoss
W: 1 Zerg (Yaaay jaedong :D)
Overall:
Zerg:64
Protoss: 53
Terran: 59
Arena MSL
Ro32: 8 Zerg, 9 protoss, 15 terran
ro16: 2 zerg, 4 protoss, 10 terran
ro8: 1 zerg, 3 protoss, 4 terran
ro4: 1 zerg, 1 protoss, 2 terran
ro2: 1 zerg, 1 terran
W: 1 terran (Jaedong? ezpz)
Overall:
Zerg: 54
Protoss: 37
Terran: 112 (ubwaaaah)
Clubday MSL (WE ALL KNOW HOW THIS IS GOING)
Ro32: 5 zerg, 10 protoss, 17 terran
Ro16: 3 zerg, 6 protoss, 7 terran
Ro8: 5 protoss, 2 terran
Ro4: 4 protoss
Ro2: 2 protoss
W: 1 protoss
Zerg: 11 (roffffl)
Protoss: 126 (double roffffffl)
Terran: 39
Lost Saga MSL
Ro32: 9zerg, 9 protoss, 14 terran
Ro16: 5 terran, 4 protoss, 7 terran
Ro8: 3 zerg, 2 Protoss, 3 terran
Ro4: 2 zerg, 2 protoss
Ro2: 1 zerg, 1 protoss
W: 1 zerg
Overall:
Zerg: 83
Protoss: 57
Terran: 40
Avalon MSL
Ro32: 7 zerg, 9 protoss, 16 terran
Ro16: 5 zerg, 3 Protoss, 8 terran
Ro8: 5 zerg, 1 protoss, 2 terran
Ro4: 3 zerg, 1 terran
Ro2: 2 zergs
W: Zerg
Overall:
Zerg: 106
Protoss: 19
terran: 48
Nate MSL
Ro32: 16 zerg, 8 protoss, 8 terran
Ro16: 6 zerg, 5 protoss, 5 terran
Ro8: 2 zerg, 3 protoss, 3 terran
Ro4: 2 zerg, 1 protoss, 1 terran
Ro2: 1 zerg, 1 terran
W: 1 zerg (1 power outage)
Overall:
Zerg: 88
Protoss: 38
Terran: 54
Hana Daetoo MSL
Ro32: 12 zerg, 10 protoss, 10 terran
Ro16: 4 zerg, 4 protoss, 8 terran
Ro8: 3 zerg, 1 protoss, 4 terran
Ro4, 2 zerg, 1 protoss, 1 terran
Ro2: 1 zerg, 1 terran
W: 1 terran (1 lack of power outage )
Overall:
Zerg: 64
Protoss: 30
Terran 86
SO, after all of that, the total impartial score goes:
Zerg: 568
Protoss: 589
Terran: 619
Over a total possible points of 1776, the deviation from lowest to highest is 51. Fuck this horrendously well balanced game. >:
edit: augh it took me 30 minutes just to put together this post you lazy ninja'ing jerk. =(
|
On August 12 2010 15:30 DarkMatter_ wrote:
Holy shit Effort won? I stopped watching game 2 when Effort lost two of his bases and figured there was no way he could win at that point against a 3 base Terran.
Forgg was only mining 1 base though..
|
WOW O__O Much appreciated stats. Funny to see Avalon, Clubday, and Arena. >< At least each race had its turn.
|
It just goes to show how well zergs operate in crunchtime, as well. Despite having the lowest average of success in tournaments, they win more titles. Atleast in the current era. If you go back to like 2001 or something then it's just nada and boxer taking all the points. :>
I'll throw together a nice looking OSL one now, as well. Might make a blog or something out of it who knows.
|
On August 12 2010 16:33 TwoToneTerran wrote:
It just goes to show how well zergs operate in crunchtime, as well. Despite having the lowest average of success in tournaments, they win more titles. Atleast in the current era. If you go back to like 2001 or something then it's just nada and boxer taking all the points. :>
The power of Jaedong.
|
On August 12 2010 16:26 TwoToneTerran wrote:
Over a total possible points of 1776, the deviation from lowest to highest is 51. Fuck this horrendously well balanced game. >:
You're forgetting one very important thing.
+ Show Spoiler +Terrans are mote hate-worthy than either protoss or zerg.
|
On August 12 2010 16:34 Letmelose wrote:Show nested quote +On August 12 2010 16:33 TwoToneTerran wrote:
It just goes to show how well zergs operate in crunchtime, as well. Despite having the lowest average of success in tournaments, they win more titles. Atleast in the current era. If you go back to like 2001 or something then it's just nada and boxer taking all the points. :> The power of Jaedong.
Not entirely! This is MSL, Jaedong only won twice. He's actually behind Bisu in that regard. It's just zerg has some secondary players who were capable of taking home gold in Calm/Luxury. Terran has an even spread with Mind/Flash/ForGG.
Expect the OSL to be much more one sided. :o
|
Couple of notes on TTT's lovely post:
1. GOMTV MSL 1 didn't have a round of 32, the format was different. The current format started with GOMTV MSL 2.
2. Maps used to be a lot more imba, specifically T-favored. Look at any OSL/MSL from around 2003-2008 (before they overcorrected for Zerg and Toss with maps like Desti, Outsider, HBR) and you'll see a lot of OSLs with 8+ terrans in the Ro16 and MSLs with 16+ terrans in the Ro32. And people are complaining about 5 terrans in the bigfile Ro8.
Speaking of map imba, it's amazing how balanced Fighting Spirit has been. It's not the most fun map, but it's like the creators just said fuck gimmicks, let's make the most balanced map ever.
|
On August 12 2010 16:40 TwoToneTerran wrote:Show nested quote +On August 12 2010 16:34 Letmelose wrote:On August 12 2010 16:33 TwoToneTerran wrote:
It just goes to show how well zergs operate in crunchtime, as well. Despite having the lowest average of success in tournaments, they win more titles. Atleast in the current era. If you go back to like 2001 or something then it's just nada and boxer taking all the points. :> The power of Jaedong. Not entirely! This is MSL, Jaedong only won twice. He's actually behind Bisu in that regard. It's just zerg has some secondary players who were capable of taking home gold in Calm/Luxury. Terran has an even spread with Mind/Flash/ForGG. Expect the OSL to be much more one sided. :o
If I remember correctly.
Ro16, Offlines, Offlines, 1st place, 2nd place, Ro16, Ro32, Ro4, 1st place, 2nd place.
Jaedong has 85 points according to your system
1st place, 1st place, 2nd place, Ro32, Ro32, 1st place, Ro32, Ro8, Ro32, Ro32
Bisu has 85 points according to your system.
They're even, but zerg has faced harder times overall. Can you name ANY other player that reached two finals in a row, while being the only representative of his race in the round of eight both times?
|
On August 12 2010 16:50 Letmelose wrote:Show nested quote +On August 12 2010 16:40 TwoToneTerran wrote:On August 12 2010 16:34 Letmelose wrote:On August 12 2010 16:33 TwoToneTerran wrote:
It just goes to show how well zergs operate in crunchtime, as well. Despite having the lowest average of success in tournaments, they win more titles. Atleast in the current era. If you go back to like 2001 or something then it's just nada and boxer taking all the points. :> The power of Jaedong. Not entirely! This is MSL, Jaedong only won twice. He's actually behind Bisu in that regard. It's just zerg has some secondary players who were capable of taking home gold in Calm/Luxury. Terran has an even spread with Mind/Flash/ForGG. Expect the OSL to be much more one sided. :o If I remember correctly. Ro16, Offlines, Offlines, 1st place, 2nd place, Ro16, Ro32, Ro4, 1st place, 2nd place. Jaedong has 85 points according to your system 1st place, 1st place, 2nd place, Ro32, Ro32, 1st place, Ro32, Ro8, Ro32, Ro32 Bisu has 85 points according to your system. They're even, but zerg has faced harder times overall. Can you name ANY other player that reached two finals in a row, while being the only representative of his race in the round of eight both times?
No but that's kind of a silly and arbitrary way to state that Jaedong's great. We all know Jaedong's great, why are you being a jerk and shoving it down my throat when I'm just doing this out of the kindness of my morbidly curious heart? :> waaaah Zergs have it rough they've only won more titles than everyone in the modern era.
:p
Making the OSL post as we speak.
On August 12 2010 16:49 jalstar wrote:Couple of notes on TTT's lovely post: 1. GOMTV MSL 1 didn't have a round of 32, the format was different. The current format started with GOMTV MSL 2. 2. Maps used to be a lot more imba, specifically T-favored. Look at any OSL/MSL from around 2003-2008 (before they overcorrected for Zerg and Toss with maps like Desti, Outsider, HBR) and you'll see a lot of OSLs with 8+ terrans in the Ro16 and MSLs with 16+ terrans in the Ro32. And people are complaining about 5 terrans in the bigfile Ro8. Speaking of map imba, it's amazing how balanced Fighting Spirit has been. It's not the most fun map, but it's like the creators just said fuck gimmicks, let's make the most balanced map ever.
I noticed the difference of format so I started with the equivalent group stage of the MSL back then, the Ro16, and just scaled the points up to match.
|
On August 12 2010 17:00 TwoToneTerran wrote:Show nested quote +On August 12 2010 16:50 Letmelose wrote:On August 12 2010 16:40 TwoToneTerran wrote:On August 12 2010 16:34 Letmelose wrote:On August 12 2010 16:33 TwoToneTerran wrote:
It just goes to show how well zergs operate in crunchtime, as well. Despite having the lowest average of success in tournaments, they win more titles. Atleast in the current era. If you go back to like 2001 or something then it's just nada and boxer taking all the points. :> The power of Jaedong. Not entirely! This is MSL, Jaedong only won twice. He's actually behind Bisu in that regard. It's just zerg has some secondary players who were capable of taking home gold in Calm/Luxury. Terran has an even spread with Mind/Flash/ForGG. Expect the OSL to be much more one sided. :o If I remember correctly. Ro16, Offlines, Offlines, 1st place, 2nd place, Ro16, Ro32, Ro4, 1st place, 2nd place. Jaedong has 85 points according to your system 1st place, 1st place, 2nd place, Ro32, Ro32, 1st place, Ro32, Ro8, Ro32, Ro32 Bisu has 85 points according to your system. They're even, but zerg has faced harder times overall. Can you name ANY other player that reached two finals in a row, while being the only representative of his race in the round of eight both times? No but that's kind of a silly and arbitrary way to state that Jaedong's great. We all know Jaedong's great, why are you being a jerk and shoving it down my throat when I'm just doing this out of the kindness of my morbidly curious heart? :> waaaah Zergs have it rough they've only won more titles than everyone in the modern era. :p Making the OSL post as we speak.
Take Jaedong away, and the entire statistics will be changed for his race more so than any other player out there in the modern era. That was the point I was trying to make. Don't pretend otherwise, terrans have always been the dominating race in Starcraft ever since the 1.08 patch, and is least affected even if you take away the player of the highest score within the race. Jaedong just happens to be awesome enough to keep the zerg race even statistically.
I'm just using your pointing system. According to it, Jaedong, along with Bisu, is the most successful player in the MSL in recent years. Despite that, zergs have lower overall points than the other two races. Is there any clearer way of saying that non-Jaedong zergs have been struggling to keep up with the other two races? Your claim that zergs have dominated the modern era cannot be backed up if you take Jaedong out of the picture. Sure, you could say the same for every race out there, but statistics quite evidently shows that Jaedong fills a much larger role than you give him credit for.
Keep in mind that OSL has an Ro36 format instead of the Ro32 format of the MSL when you make the statistic.
|
On August 12 2010 17:08 Letmelose wrote:Show nested quote +On August 12 2010 17:00 TwoToneTerran wrote:On August 12 2010 16:50 Letmelose wrote:On August 12 2010 16:40 TwoToneTerran wrote:On August 12 2010 16:34 Letmelose wrote:On August 12 2010 16:33 TwoToneTerran wrote:
It just goes to show how well zergs operate in crunchtime, as well. Despite having the lowest average of success in tournaments, they win more titles. Atleast in the current era. If you go back to like 2001 or something then it's just nada and boxer taking all the points. :> The power of Jaedong. Not entirely! This is MSL, Jaedong only won twice. He's actually behind Bisu in that regard. It's just zerg has some secondary players who were capable of taking home gold in Calm/Luxury. Terran has an even spread with Mind/Flash/ForGG. Expect the OSL to be much more one sided. :o If I remember correctly. Ro16, Offlines, Offlines, 1st place, 2nd place, Ro16, Ro32, Ro4, 1st place, 2nd place. Jaedong has 85 points according to your system 1st place, 1st place, 2nd place, Ro32, Ro32, 1st place, Ro32, Ro8, Ro32, Ro32 Bisu has 85 points according to your system. They're even, but zerg has faced harder times overall. Can you name ANY other player that reached two finals in a row, while being the only representative of his race in the round of eight both times? No but that's kind of a silly and arbitrary way to state that Jaedong's great. We all know Jaedong's great, why are you being a jerk and shoving it down my throat when I'm just doing this out of the kindness of my morbidly curious heart? :> waaaah Zergs have it rough they've only won more titles than everyone in the modern era. :p Making the OSL post as we speak. Take Jaedong away, and the entire statistics will be changed for his race than any other player out there in the modern era. That was the point I was trying to make. Don't pretend otherwise, terrans have always been the dominating race in Starcraft ever since the 1.08 patch, and is least affected even if you take away the player of the highest score within the race. Jaedong just happens to be awesome enough to keep the zerg race even statistically. Keep in mind that OSL has an Ro36 format instead of the Ro32 format of the MSL when you make the statistic.
holy crap you are a broken record. You just stated that Bisu had the same impact in the overall scheme of things with my little rating system. Why are you saying I'm pretending Jaedong isn't great? You keep shoving words down my throat in defense of Jaedong, I've never said anything bad about Jaedong. You are really mad at something and it shouldn't be me, so I suggest you leave me be.
The statistic will scale fine, by the way. I start with the group stages which are the tournament proper. OSL pre Ro16 is a big changing mess each season anyway, especially with the match fixing scandal and ACE recruitment and blaaaah.
|
so, you counted players twice? like say, jaedong gets into the round of 16, youll give him points for both r32 and r16? (and further on in the tournament too)
and clubday lol. good times
|
On August 12 2010 17:16 TwoToneTerran wrote:Show nested quote +On August 12 2010 17:08 Letmelose wrote:On August 12 2010 17:00 TwoToneTerran wrote:On August 12 2010 16:50 Letmelose wrote:On August 12 2010 16:40 TwoToneTerran wrote:On August 12 2010 16:34 Letmelose wrote:On August 12 2010 16:33 TwoToneTerran wrote:
It just goes to show how well zergs operate in crunchtime, as well. Despite having the lowest average of success in tournaments, they win more titles. Atleast in the current era. If you go back to like 2001 or something then it's just nada and boxer taking all the points. :> The power of Jaedong. Not entirely! This is MSL, Jaedong only won twice. He's actually behind Bisu in that regard. It's just zerg has some secondary players who were capable of taking home gold in Calm/Luxury. Terran has an even spread with Mind/Flash/ForGG. Expect the OSL to be much more one sided. :o If I remember correctly. Ro16, Offlines, Offlines, 1st place, 2nd place, Ro16, Ro32, Ro4, 1st place, 2nd place. Jaedong has 85 points according to your system 1st place, 1st place, 2nd place, Ro32, Ro32, 1st place, Ro32, Ro8, Ro32, Ro32 Bisu has 85 points according to your system. They're even, but zerg has faced harder times overall. Can you name ANY other player that reached two finals in a row, while being the only representative of his race in the round of eight both times? No but that's kind of a silly and arbitrary way to state that Jaedong's great. We all know Jaedong's great, why are you being a jerk and shoving it down my throat when I'm just doing this out of the kindness of my morbidly curious heart? :> waaaah Zergs have it rough they've only won more titles than everyone in the modern era. :p Making the OSL post as we speak. Take Jaedong away, and the entire statistics will be changed for his race than any other player out there in the modern era. That was the point I was trying to make. Don't pretend otherwise, terrans have always been the dominating race in Starcraft ever since the 1.08 patch, and is least affected even if you take away the player of the highest score within the race. Jaedong just happens to be awesome enough to keep the zerg race even statistically. Keep in mind that OSL has an Ro36 format instead of the Ro32 format of the MSL when you make the statistic. holy crap you are a broken record. You just stated that Bisu had the same impact in the overall scheme of things with my little rating system. Why are you saying I'm pretending Jaedong isn't great? You keep shoving words down my throat in defense of Jaedong, I've never said anything bad about Jaedong. You are really mad at something and it shouldn't be me, so I suggest you leave me be. The statistic will scale fine, by the way. I start with the group stages which are the tournament proper. OSL pre Ro16 is a big changing mess each season anyway, especially with the match fixing scandal and ACE recruitment and blaaaah.
Why can't you deal with your own stastics being thrown at your face? Zergs have not been dominating the post-Savior era, and if it appears to be so, it's the power of Jaedong. What part of the total number of points being relied upon one player more so than any other race don't you get?
|
On August 12 2010 17:21 JohnColtrane wrote:
so, you counted players twice? like say, jaedong gets into the round of 16, youll give him points for both r32 and r16? (and further on in the tournament too)
and clubday lol. good times
Yeah, if they advance further they earn more points. It's kind of like the kespa rank in that sense. :D
|
On August 12 2010 17:29 Letmelose wrote:Show nested quote +On August 12 2010 17:16 TwoToneTerran wrote:On August 12 2010 17:08 Letmelose wrote:On August 12 2010 17:00 TwoToneTerran wrote:On August 12 2010 16:50 Letmelose wrote:On August 12 2010 16:40 TwoToneTerran wrote:On August 12 2010 16:34 Letmelose wrote:On August 12 2010 16:33 TwoToneTerran wrote:
It just goes to show how well zergs operate in crunchtime, as well. Despite having the lowest average of success in tournaments, they win more titles. Atleast in the current era. If you go back to like 2001 or something then it's just nada and boxer taking all the points. :> The power of Jaedong. Not entirely! This is MSL, Jaedong only won twice. He's actually behind Bisu in that regard. It's just zerg has some secondary players who were capable of taking home gold in Calm/Luxury. Terran has an even spread with Mind/Flash/ForGG. Expect the OSL to be much more one sided. :o If I remember correctly. Ro16, Offlines, Offlines, 1st place, 2nd place, Ro16, Ro32, Ro4, 1st place, 2nd place. Jaedong has 85 points according to your system 1st place, 1st place, 2nd place, Ro32, Ro32, 1st place, Ro32, Ro8, Ro32, Ro32 Bisu has 85 points according to your system. They're even, but zerg has faced harder times overall. Can you name ANY other player that reached two finals in a row, while being the only representative of his race in the round of eight both times? No but that's kind of a silly and arbitrary way to state that Jaedong's great. We all know Jaedong's great, why are you being a jerk and shoving it down my throat when I'm just doing this out of the kindness of my morbidly curious heart? :> waaaah Zergs have it rough they've only won more titles than everyone in the modern era. :p Making the OSL post as we speak. Take Jaedong away, and the entire statistics will be changed for his race than any other player out there in the modern era. That was the point I was trying to make. Don't pretend otherwise, terrans have always been the dominating race in Starcraft ever since the 1.08 patch, and is least affected even if you take away the player of the highest score within the race. Jaedong just happens to be awesome enough to keep the zerg race even statistically. Keep in mind that OSL has an Ro36 format instead of the Ro32 format of the MSL when you make the statistic. holy crap you are a broken record. You just stated that Bisu had the same impact in the overall scheme of things with my little rating system. Why are you saying I'm pretending Jaedong isn't great? You keep shoving words down my throat in defense of Jaedong, I've never said anything bad about Jaedong. You are really mad at something and it shouldn't be me, so I suggest you leave me be. The statistic will scale fine, by the way. I start with the group stages which are the tournament proper. OSL pre Ro16 is a big changing mess each season anyway, especially with the match fixing scandal and ACE recruitment and blaaaah. Why can't you deal with your own stastics being thrown at your face? Zergs have not been dominating the post-Savior era, and if it appears to be so, it's the power of Jaedong. What part of the total number of points being relied upon one player more so than any other race don't you get?
Haha you're gonna fucking love the OSL stats
|
On August 12 2010 17:29 TwoToneTerran wrote:Show nested quote +On August 12 2010 17:21 JohnColtrane wrote:
so, you counted players twice? like say, jaedong gets into the round of 16, youll give him points for both r32 and r16? (and further on in the tournament too)
and clubday lol. good times Yeah, if they advance further they earn more points. It's kind of like the kespa rank in that sense. :D
hmmm
i wonder how much the statistics would change if you just counted each player once
and no im far too lazy to do it
|
On August 12 2010 17:30 TwoToneTerran wrote:Show nested quote +On August 12 2010 17:29 Letmelose wrote:On August 12 2010 17:16 TwoToneTerran wrote:On August 12 2010 17:08 Letmelose wrote:On August 12 2010 17:00 TwoToneTerran wrote:On August 12 2010 16:50 Letmelose wrote:On August 12 2010 16:40 TwoToneTerran wrote:On August 12 2010 16:34 Letmelose wrote:On August 12 2010 16:33 TwoToneTerran wrote:
It just goes to show how well zergs operate in crunchtime, as well. Despite having the lowest average of success in tournaments, they win more titles. Atleast in the current era. If you go back to like 2001 or something then it's just nada and boxer taking all the points. :> The power of Jaedong. Not entirely! This is MSL, Jaedong only won twice. He's actually behind Bisu in that regard. It's just zerg has some secondary players who were capable of taking home gold in Calm/Luxury. Terran has an even spread with Mind/Flash/ForGG. Expect the OSL to be much more one sided. :o If I remember correctly. Ro16, Offlines, Offlines, 1st place, 2nd place, Ro16, Ro32, Ro4, 1st place, 2nd place. Jaedong has 85 points according to your system 1st place, 1st place, 2nd place, Ro32, Ro32, 1st place, Ro32, Ro8, Ro32, Ro32 Bisu has 85 points according to your system. They're even, but zerg has faced harder times overall. Can you name ANY other player that reached two finals in a row, while being the only representative of his race in the round of eight both times? No but that's kind of a silly and arbitrary way to state that Jaedong's great. We all know Jaedong's great, why are you being a jerk and shoving it down my throat when I'm just doing this out of the kindness of my morbidly curious heart? :> waaaah Zergs have it rough they've only won more titles than everyone in the modern era. :p Making the OSL post as we speak. Take Jaedong away, and the entire statistics will be changed for his race than any other player out there in the modern era. That was the point I was trying to make. Don't pretend otherwise, terrans have always been the dominating race in Starcraft ever since the 1.08 patch, and is least affected even if you take away the player of the highest score within the race. Jaedong just happens to be awesome enough to keep the zerg race even statistically. Keep in mind that OSL has an Ro36 format instead of the Ro32 format of the MSL when you make the statistic. holy crap you are a broken record. You just stated that Bisu had the same impact in the overall scheme of things with my little rating system. Why are you saying I'm pretending Jaedong isn't great? You keep shoving words down my throat in defense of Jaedong, I've never said anything bad about Jaedong. You are really mad at something and it shouldn't be me, so I suggest you leave me be. The statistic will scale fine, by the way. I start with the group stages which are the tournament proper. OSL pre Ro16 is a big changing mess each season anyway, especially with the match fixing scandal and ACE recruitment and blaaaah. Why can't you deal with your own stastics being thrown at your face? Zergs have not been dominating the post-Savior era, and if it appears to be so, it's the power of Jaedong. What part of the total number of points being relied upon one player more so than any other race don't you get? Haha you're gonna fucking love the OSL stats
Haven't seen it, but I guess Jaedong's great success in it, coupled with the lack of success from protoss have made your argument that zergs have wiped the floor with everybody in recent years more convincing?
It's not just the individual leagues I'm talking about here. Check the Proleague stastics, check out the number of terran players overall, be it top ranked Kespa players, or simply in the Proleague rosters. Wipe that. Just take all the televised games in recent years and see which race has won the most. I haven't checked any of these, but I'm pretty sure most of it will have terran in front of the other two races.
|
ALRIGHT, so, to make the format as equivalent to the MSL one I already did, I am doing the OSL thusly:
The Ro16 group stage will be 1 point, the Ro8 elimination stage 2 points, Ro4 will be 4, Ro2 will be 8, and winner will be 10. While this won't point for point add up with the MSL, everything is scaled down to exactly 50% of it to make up for the group stages happening with exactly half the number. This is about averages betwixt the two, not pure point value. If you're a real stickler you can just double everything I put down and go back and add the really weird Ro36's and wildcards and blegh it DOESN'T SCALE WELL I TRIED. =(
We'll be starting with Shinhan3 since it's like a week before Savior's fall so it'd be disingenuous not to include the OSL of the same season!
Shinhan 3 OSL:
Ro16: 6 zerg, 1 protoss, 9 terran
Ro8: 3 zerg, 1 protoss(you own Much), 4 terran
Ro4: 1 zerg, 3 terran
Ro2: 1 zerg, 1 terran
W: 1 zerg
Overall:
Zerg: 34
Protoss: 3
Terran: 37
Daum OSL:
Ro16: 3 zerg, 3 protoss, 10 terran
Ro8: 2 zerg, 3 protoss, 3 terran (get owned terrans)
Ro4: 1 zerg, 1 protoss, 2 terran
Ro2: 1 zerg, 1 terran
W: 1 Zerg
Overall:
Zerg: 29
Protoss: 13
Terran: 32
Ever OSL 2007
Ro16, 4 zerg, 3 protoss, 9 terran
Ro8: 2 zerg, 2 protoss, 4 terrans
Ro4: 1 zerg, 2 protoss, 1 terran
Ro2: 1 zerg, 1 protoss
W: 1 zerg
Overall:
Zerg: 30
Protoss: 23
Terran: 21
Bacchus OSL 2008:
Ro16: 6 zerg, 6 protoss, 4 terran
Ro8: 2 zerg, 4 protoss, 2 terran
Ro4: 1 zerg, 2 protoss, 1 terran
Ro2: 1 protoss, 1 terran
W: 1 terran
Overall:
Zerg: 14
Protoss: 30
Terran: 30 (flaaaash <3)
Ever OSL 2008:
Ro16: 5 zergs, 7 protoss, 4 terrans
Ro8: 2 zergs, 5 protoss, 1 terran
Ro4: 2 zergs, 2 protoss
Ro2: 1 zerg, 1 protoss
W: 1 zerg
Overall:
Zerg: 35
Protoss: 33
Terran: 6
Incruit OSL:
Ro16: 4 zergs, 6 protoss, 6 terrans
Ro8: 1 zerg, 3 protoss, 4 terrans
Ro4: 1 zerg, 2 protoss, 1 terran
Ro2: 1 protoss, 1 terran
W: 1 protoss
Overall:
Zerg: 10
Protoss: 38
Terran: 26
Batoo OSL:
Ro16: 6 zergs, 5 protoss, 5 terrans
Ro8: 3 zerg, 3 protoss, 2 terran
Ro4: 2 zerg, 1 protoss, 1 terran
Ro2: 1 zerg, 1 terran
W: 1 zerg
Overall:
Zerg: 38
Protoss: 15
Terran: 21
Bacchus OSL 2009:
Ro16: 7 zergs, 3 protoss, 6 terrans
Ro8: 4 zerg, 4 terrans (oh god the protossanity)
Ro4: 3 zergs, 1 terran
Ro2: 2 zergs
W: 1 zerg
Overall:
Zerg: 53
Protoss: 3
Terran: 18
Ever OSL 2009:
Ro16: 8 zergs, 4 protoss, 4 terran
Ro8: 4 zergs, 3 protoss, 1 terran
Ro4: 2 zergs, 1 protoss, 1 terran
Ro2 1 protoss, 1 terran
W: 1 terran
Overall:
Zerg: 24
Protoss: 22
Terran: 28
Korean Air OSL 1, 2010:
Ro16: 6 zerg, 4 protoss, 6 terran
Ro8: 2 zerg, 3 protoss, 3 terran
Ro4: 1 zerg, 2 protoss, 1 terran
Ro2: 1 zerg, 1 terran
W: 1 zerg (aaaauuuugh it hurts to type)
Overall:
Zerg: 32
Protoss: 18
Terran: 24
So, tally that all together and you get
Zerg: 299
Protoss: 198
Terran: 243
Zerg comse out ahead! Even despite the MASSIVELY lowered margin of points (740 as opposed to 1776), The difference between #1 and #2 is 56, even higher between the differential between #1 and #3 in the MSL! Zerg has completely dominated the OSL in place of a horribly lackluster Protoss. If you took all the extra points zerg had over terran and added them to protoss, then things would be fairly even. Poor toss, very dominant zerg.
|
On August 12 2010 17:37 Letmelose wrote:Show nested quote +On August 12 2010 17:30 TwoToneTerran wrote:On August 12 2010 17:29 Letmelose wrote:On August 12 2010 17:16 TwoToneTerran wrote:On August 12 2010 17:08 Letmelose wrote:On August 12 2010 17:00 TwoToneTerran wrote:On August 12 2010 16:50 Letmelose wrote:On August 12 2010 16:40 TwoToneTerran wrote:On August 12 2010 16:34 Letmelose wrote:On August 12 2010 16:33 TwoToneTerran wrote:
It just goes to show how well zergs operate in crunchtime, as well. Despite having the lowest average of success in tournaments, they win more titles. Atleast in the current era. If you go back to like 2001 or something then it's just nada and boxer taking all the points. :> The power of Jaedong. Not entirely! This is MSL, Jaedong only won twice. He's actually behind Bisu in that regard. It's just zerg has some secondary players who were capable of taking home gold in Calm/Luxury. Terran has an even spread with Mind/Flash/ForGG. Expect the OSL to be much more one sided. :o If I remember correctly. Ro16, Offlines, Offlines, 1st place, 2nd place, Ro16, Ro32, Ro4, 1st place, 2nd place. Jaedong has 85 points according to your system 1st place, 1st place, 2nd place, Ro32, Ro32, 1st place, Ro32, Ro8, Ro32, Ro32 Bisu has 85 points according to your system. They're even, but zerg has faced harder times overall. Can you name ANY other player that reached two finals in a row, while being the only representative of his race in the round of eight both times? No but that's kind of a silly and arbitrary way to state that Jaedong's great. We all know Jaedong's great, why are you being a jerk and shoving it down my throat when I'm just doing this out of the kindness of my morbidly curious heart? :> waaaah Zergs have it rough they've only won more titles than everyone in the modern era. :p Making the OSL post as we speak. Take Jaedong away, and the entire statistics will be changed for his race than any other player out there in the modern era. That was the point I was trying to make. Don't pretend otherwise, terrans have always been the dominating race in Starcraft ever since the 1.08 patch, and is least affected even if you take away the player of the highest score within the race. Jaedong just happens to be awesome enough to keep the zerg race even statistically. Keep in mind that OSL has an Ro36 format instead of the Ro32 format of the MSL when you make the statistic. holy crap you are a broken record. You just stated that Bisu had the same impact in the overall scheme of things with my little rating system. Why are you saying I'm pretending Jaedong isn't great? You keep shoving words down my throat in defense of Jaedong, I've never said anything bad about Jaedong. You are really mad at something and it shouldn't be me, so I suggest you leave me be. The statistic will scale fine, by the way. I start with the group stages which are the tournament proper. OSL pre Ro16 is a big changing mess each season anyway, especially with the match fixing scandal and ACE recruitment and blaaaah. Why can't you deal with your own stastics being thrown at your face? Zergs have not been dominating the post-Savior era, and if it appears to be so, it's the power of Jaedong. What part of the total number of points being relied upon one player more so than any other race don't you get? Haha you're gonna fucking love the OSL stats Haven't seen it, but I guess Jaedong's great success in it, coupled with the lack of success from protoss have made your argument that zergs have wiped the floor with everybody in recent years more convincing? It's not just the individual leagues I'm talking about here. Check the Proleague stastics, check out the number of terran players overall, be it top ranked Kespa players, or simply in the Proleague rosters. Wipe that. Just take all the televised games in recent years and see which race has won the most. I haven't checked any of these, but I'm pretty sure most of it will have terran in front of the other two races.
Holy shit shut the fuck up, this isn't even an argument. I have said countless times Jaedong is a great, if not greatest player ever. Stop trying to rub your goddamn bias in my face. This little project of mine has nothing to do with my bias, it's just me throwing together a metric and plotting some goddamn trends. I don't care which race has it better -- there was an argument in the thread over it so I went "Oh hey you know what would make this argument easier to settle? Some nice numbers!" entirely free of my bias. I didn't cheese any numbers, and I don't support one race over the other. You have this imaginary notion that Jaedong is carrying the zerg race all by himself, despite Savior, GGplay, Luxury, Calm, July and Effort all taking titles in these statistics of mine, not to mention the many zergs who put up good showings in tournaments despite falling short like Kwanro and Yarnc.
What I'm saying is go away you dumb fanboy god. You look a gift horse in the mouth and then do your best to brand its tongue.
User was warned for this post
|
On August 12 2010 17:40 TwoToneTerran wrote:Show nested quote +On August 12 2010 17:37 Letmelose wrote:On August 12 2010 17:30 TwoToneTerran wrote:On August 12 2010 17:29 Letmelose wrote:On August 12 2010 17:16 TwoToneTerran wrote:On August 12 2010 17:08 Letmelose wrote:On August 12 2010 17:00 TwoToneTerran wrote:On August 12 2010 16:50 Letmelose wrote:On August 12 2010 16:40 TwoToneTerran wrote:On August 12 2010 16:34 Letmelose wrote:
[quote]
The power of Jaedong. Not entirely! This is MSL, Jaedong only won twice. He's actually behind Bisu in that regard. It's just zerg has some secondary players who were capable of taking home gold in Calm/Luxury. Terran has an even spread with Mind/Flash/ForGG. Expect the OSL to be much more one sided. :o If I remember correctly. Ro16, Offlines, Offlines, 1st place, 2nd place, Ro16, Ro32, Ro4, 1st place, 2nd place. Jaedong has 85 points according to your system 1st place, 1st place, 2nd place, Ro32, Ro32, 1st place, Ro32, Ro8, Ro32, Ro32 Bisu has 85 points according to your system. They're even, but zerg has faced harder times overall. Can you name ANY other player that reached two finals in a row, while being the only representative of his race in the round of eight both times? No but that's kind of a silly and arbitrary way to state that Jaedong's great. We all know Jaedong's great, why are you being a jerk and shoving it down my throat when I'm just doing this out of the kindness of my morbidly curious heart? :> waaaah Zergs have it rough they've only won more titles than everyone in the modern era. :p Making the OSL post as we speak. Take Jaedong away, and the entire statistics will be changed for his race than any other player out there in the modern era. That was the point I was trying to make. Don't pretend otherwise, terrans have always been the dominating race in Starcraft ever since the 1.08 patch, and is least affected even if you take away the player of the highest score within the race. Jaedong just happens to be awesome enough to keep the zerg race even statistically. Keep in mind that OSL has an Ro36 format instead of the Ro32 format of the MSL when you make the statistic. holy crap you are a broken record. You just stated that Bisu had the same impact in the overall scheme of things with my little rating system. Why are you saying I'm pretending Jaedong isn't great? You keep shoving words down my throat in defense of Jaedong, I've never said anything bad about Jaedong. You are really mad at something and it shouldn't be me, so I suggest you leave me be. The statistic will scale fine, by the way. I start with the group stages which are the tournament proper. OSL pre Ro16 is a big changing mess each season anyway, especially with the match fixing scandal and ACE recruitment and blaaaah. Why can't you deal with your own stastics being thrown at your face? Zergs have not been dominating the post-Savior era, and if it appears to be so, it's the power of Jaedong. What part of the total number of points being relied upon one player more so than any other race don't you get? Haha you're gonna fucking love the OSL stats Haven't seen it, but I guess Jaedong's great success in it, coupled with the lack of success from protoss have made your argument that zergs have wiped the floor with everybody in recent years more convincing? It's not just the individual leagues I'm talking about here. Check the Proleague stastics, check out the number of terran players overall, be it top ranked Kespa players, or simply in the Proleague rosters. Wipe that. Just take all the televised games in recent years and see which race has won the most. I haven't checked any of these, but I'm pretty sure most of it will have terran in front of the other two races. Holy shit shut the fuck up, this isn't even an argument. I have said countless times Jaedong is a great, if not greatest player ever. Stop trying to rub your goddamn bias in my face. This little project of mine has nothing to do with my bias, it's just me throwing together a metric and plotting some goddamn trends. I don't care which race has it better -- there was an argument in the thread over it so I went "Oh hey you know what would make this argument easier to settle? Some nice numbers!" entirely free of my bias. I didn't cheese any numbers, and I don't support one race over the other. What I'm saying is go away you dumb fanboy god.
I'm sorry that you can't deal with facts. If I could be bothered to look up the numbers, there would be so many ways to proving that terrans are the most dominating race overall. It's just that zergs have caught up a lot in recent years. If this frustrates you, then I'll leave you alone.
|
This 'modern era' business is just picking statistics to fit your argument. The fact still stands terran has won the most titles overall of any race in the history of the SC leagues. It seems very convenient to me to just ignore the first five years or so of competition. I agree that protoss has had the worst run.
|
On August 12 2010 17:47 Letmelose wrote:Show nested quote +On August 12 2010 17:40 TwoToneTerran wrote:On August 12 2010 17:37 Letmelose wrote:On August 12 2010 17:30 TwoToneTerran wrote:On August 12 2010 17:29 Letmelose wrote:On August 12 2010 17:16 TwoToneTerran wrote:On August 12 2010 17:08 Letmelose wrote:On August 12 2010 17:00 TwoToneTerran wrote:On August 12 2010 16:50 Letmelose wrote:On August 12 2010 16:40 TwoToneTerran wrote:
[quote]
Not entirely! This is MSL, Jaedong only won twice. He's actually behind Bisu in that regard. It's just zerg has some secondary players who were capable of taking home gold in Calm/Luxury. Terran has an even spread with Mind/Flash/ForGG.
Expect the OSL to be much more one sided. :o If I remember correctly. Ro16, Offlines, Offlines, 1st place, 2nd place, Ro16, Ro32, Ro4, 1st place, 2nd place. Jaedong has 85 points according to your system 1st place, 1st place, 2nd place, Ro32, Ro32, 1st place, Ro32, Ro8, Ro32, Ro32 Bisu has 85 points according to your system. They're even, but zerg has faced harder times overall. Can you name ANY other player that reached two finals in a row, while being the only representative of his race in the round of eight both times? No but that's kind of a silly and arbitrary way to state that Jaedong's great. We all know Jaedong's great, why are you being a jerk and shoving it down my throat when I'm just doing this out of the kindness of my morbidly curious heart? :> waaaah Zergs have it rough they've only won more titles than everyone in the modern era. :p Making the OSL post as we speak. Take Jaedong away, and the entire statistics will be changed for his race than any other player out there in the modern era. That was the point I was trying to make. Don't pretend otherwise, terrans have always been the dominating race in Starcraft ever since the 1.08 patch, and is least affected even if you take away the player of the highest score within the race. Jaedong just happens to be awesome enough to keep the zerg race even statistically. Keep in mind that OSL has an Ro36 format instead of the Ro32 format of the MSL when you make the statistic. holy crap you are a broken record. You just stated that Bisu had the same impact in the overall scheme of things with my little rating system. Why are you saying I'm pretending Jaedong isn't great? You keep shoving words down my throat in defense of Jaedong, I've never said anything bad about Jaedong. You are really mad at something and it shouldn't be me, so I suggest you leave me be. The statistic will scale fine, by the way. I start with the group stages which are the tournament proper. OSL pre Ro16 is a big changing mess each season anyway, especially with the match fixing scandal and ACE recruitment and blaaaah. Why can't you deal with your own stastics being thrown at your face? Zergs have not been dominating the post-Savior era, and if it appears to be so, it's the power of Jaedong. What part of the total number of points being relied upon one player more so than any other race don't you get? Haha you're gonna fucking love the OSL stats Haven't seen it, but I guess Jaedong's great success in it, coupled with the lack of success from protoss have made your argument that zergs have wiped the floor with everybody in recent years more convincing? It's not just the individual leagues I'm talking about here. Check the Proleague stastics, check out the number of terran players overall, be it top ranked Kespa players, or simply in the Proleague rosters. Wipe that. Just take all the televised games in recent years and see which race has won the most. I haven't checked any of these, but I'm pretty sure most of it will have terran in front of the other two races. Holy shit shut the fuck up, this isn't even an argument. I have said countless times Jaedong is a great, if not greatest player ever. Stop trying to rub your goddamn bias in my face. This little project of mine has nothing to do with my bias, it's just me throwing together a metric and plotting some goddamn trends. I don't care which race has it better -- there was an argument in the thread over it so I went "Oh hey you know what would make this argument easier to settle? Some nice numbers!" entirely free of my bias. I didn't cheese any numbers, and I don't support one race over the other. What I'm saying is go away you dumb fanboy god. I'm sorry that you can't deal with facts. If I could be bothered to look up the numbers, there would be so many ways to proving that terrans are the most dominating race overall. It's just that zergs have caught up a lot in recent years. If this frustrates you, then I'll leave you alone.
Haha "If I could be bothered to back up my opinion that you don't disagree with." You are the worst kind of debater, one that doesn't even have a debate.
I'm not dumb. I know terran is the most dominant race over the history of BW. They're the most consistent overall even after the fall of Savior (Taking #2 in OSL and #1 in MSL, whereas Zerg is #3 in MSL and #1 in OSL. Protoss is, sadly, #2 MSL and #3 OSL). For some reason you pictured this imaginary argument I made up where I said Jaedong hasn't carried a great load for Zerg, when all I was saying was that zerg had multiple champions in spite of also having Jaedong in the MSL, like Lux and Calm.
I just honestly don't get what you're arguing with me about, but you're doing it in the most snide, obnoxious way and it's all in spite of me doing this really nice and I think interesting thing out of my own free time.
|
On August 12 2010 17:49 tomatriedes wrote:
This 'modern era' business is just picking statistics to fit your argument. The fact still stands terran has won the most titles overall of any race in the history of the SC leagues. It seems very convenient to me to just ignore the first five years or so of competition. I agree that protoss has had the worst run.
If you can't see Savior's loss to Bisu in the MSL as a paradigm shift in BW then you're really lost on the history of it all.
OF COURSE Terran is the most dominant. Oov/Nada assured that.
edit -- urgggh I am spending way too much time defending myself from people getting all mad over my little fact dumps. I'm just gonna drop it because I'm apparently a big ol statistics skewing Jaedong hating jerk or something I don't know.
|
Thanks for putting that data together TwoTone. There you have it folks, zerg imba, lay off the terran hate.
|
On August 12 2010 18:08 moopie wrote:
Thanks for putting that data together TwoTone. There you have it folks, zerg imba, lay off the terran hate.
What? His statistics didn't prove that at all. Let me reiterate for the slow here- terran have won the most titles of any race overall. You can pick out sections where the other races have done well but overall the truth still stands.
|
On August 12 2010 17:53 TwoToneTerran wrote:Show nested quote +On August 12 2010 17:49 tomatriedes wrote:
This 'modern era' business is just picking statistics to fit your argument. The fact still stands terran has won the most titles overall of any race in the history of the SC leagues. It seems very convenient to me to just ignore the first five years or so of competition. I agree that protoss has had the worst run. If you can't see Savior's loss to Bisu in the MSL as a paradigm shift in BW then you're really lost on the history of it all. OF COURSE Terran is the most dominant. Oov/Nada assured that. edit -- urgggh I am spending way too much time defending myself from people getting all mad over my little fact dumps. I'm just gonna drop it because I'm apparently a big ol statistics skewing Jaedong hating jerk or something I don't know.
I'm not getting mad and I don't think you're a 'Jaedong hating jerk' but I think we have to look at statistics overall if you want to make arguments about which is the most powerful race. If you leave out certain years you can prove anything.
|
On August 12 2010 19:21 tomatriedes wrote:Show nested quote +On August 12 2010 18:08 moopie wrote:
Thanks for putting that data together TwoTone. There you have it folks, zerg imba, lay off the terran hate. What? His statistics didn't prove that at all. Let me reiterate for the slow here- terran have won the most titles of any race overall. You can pick out sections where the other races have done well but overall the truth still stands.
While I appreciate being called slow, that was sarcasm...
|
On August 12 2010 19:24 tomatriedes wrote:Show nested quote +On August 12 2010 17:53 TwoToneTerran wrote:On August 12 2010 17:49 tomatriedes wrote:
This 'modern era' business is just picking statistics to fit your argument. The fact still stands terran has won the most titles overall of any race in the history of the SC leagues. It seems very convenient to me to just ignore the first five years or so of competition. I agree that protoss has had the worst run. If you can't see Savior's loss to Bisu in the MSL as a paradigm shift in BW then you're really lost on the history of it all. OF COURSE Terran is the most dominant. Oov/Nada assured that. edit -- urgggh I am spending way too much time defending myself from people getting all mad over my little fact dumps. I'm just gonna drop it because I'm apparently a big ol statistics skewing Jaedong hating jerk or something I don't know. I'm not getting mad and I don't think you're a 'Jaedong hating jerk' but I think we have to look at statistics overall if you want to make arguments about which is the most powerful race. If you leave out certain years you can prove anything.
I didn't leave out "certain years" for the sake of saying Terran isn't dominant. I counted years where the MSL and OSL were won or greatly affected by players who are relevant, nay, dominant today. I could've counted all of Savior's MSLs if I was trying to make a case against terran. The date at which I set my stats on makes sense in its relevance to current progaming and you're out of your rocker if you think what I did was particularly arbitrary.
ugh I don't know why I argue with people who have quotes like yours in their sigs. They basically just pick a hate campaign to rally behind and disregard anything other people say so they can just thoughtlessly regurgitate soundbites.
|
On August 12 2010 20:02 TwoToneTerran wrote:Show nested quote +On August 12 2010 19:24 tomatriedes wrote:On August 12 2010 17:53 TwoToneTerran wrote:On August 12 2010 17:49 tomatriedes wrote:
This 'modern era' business is just picking statistics to fit your argument. The fact still stands terran has won the most titles overall of any race in the history of the SC leagues. It seems very convenient to me to just ignore the first five years or so of competition. I agree that protoss has had the worst run. If you can't see Savior's loss to Bisu in the MSL as a paradigm shift in BW then you're really lost on the history of it all. OF COURSE Terran is the most dominant. Oov/Nada assured that. edit -- urgggh I am spending way too much time defending myself from people getting all mad over my little fact dumps. I'm just gonna drop it because I'm apparently a big ol statistics skewing Jaedong hating jerk or something I don't know. I'm not getting mad and I don't think you're a 'Jaedong hating jerk' but I think we have to look at statistics overall if you want to make arguments about which is the most powerful race. If you leave out certain years you can prove anything. I didn't leave out "certain years" for the sake of saying Terran isn't dominant. I counted years where the MSL and OSL were won or greatly affected by players who are relevant, nay, dominant today. I could've counted all of Savior's MSLs if I was trying to make a case against terran. The date at which I set my stats on makes sense in its relevance to current progaming and you're out of your rocker if you think what I did was particularly arbitrary. ugh I don't know why I argue with people who have quotes like yours in their sigs. They basically just pick a hate campaign to rally behind and disregard anything other people say so they can just thoughtlessly regurgitate soundbites.
Overall terran is still the most dominant race.
Edit-
OSL
Medals won per Race
As of May, 2010, there have been:
Race 1st 2nd
Terran 12 10
Zerg 9 11
Protoss 8 8
MSL
Medals Won per Race
As of May, 2010, there have been:
Race 1st 2nd
Terran 10 4
Zerg 9 10
Protoss 4 9
Total- Terran 22 gold 14 sliver
Zerg 18 gold 21 silver
Protoss 12 gold 17 silver
Protoss really needs a buff.
|
That's not even what the conversation, statistical dump, or anything has been about. You're a broken record.
edit -- so did you really not read the conversation? Someone got annoyed and said that Terran's been winning everything, then someone made a snarky post about how many finals or titles or whatever they've won. I mad a semi-serious post about how Protoss and Terran have, since the bonjwa days have ended, been massively behind zerg in titles and that it's really been dominated by zerg since Savior. Intothewow proposed an interesting idea to rate the overall success of the three races outside of just "who won a title" (literally what you're doing right now. It's the base level thought that I was doing my best to get rid of) by setting a reasonable metric for this time we had already talked about and judging the overall performance in the leagues of the races.
Basically you're a broken record who didn't bother to read the last couple pages. =\
|
On August 12 2010 20:02 TwoToneTerran wrote:Show nested quote +On August 12 2010 19:24 tomatriedes wrote:On August 12 2010 17:53 TwoToneTerran wrote:On August 12 2010 17:49 tomatriedes wrote:
This 'modern era' business is just picking statistics to fit your argument. The fact still stands terran has won the most titles overall of any race in the history of the SC leagues. It seems very convenient to me to just ignore the first five years or so of competition. I agree that protoss has had the worst run. If you can't see Savior's loss to Bisu in the MSL as a paradigm shift in BW then you're really lost on the history of it all. OF COURSE Terran is the most dominant. Oov/Nada assured that. edit -- urgggh I am spending way too much time defending myself from people getting all mad over my little fact dumps. I'm just gonna drop it because I'm apparently a big ol statistics skewing Jaedong hating jerk or something I don't know. I'm not getting mad and I don't think you're a 'Jaedong hating jerk' but I think we have to look at statistics overall if you want to make arguments about which is the most powerful race. If you leave out certain years you can prove anything. I didn't leave out "certain years" for the sake of saying Terran isn't dominant. I counted years where the MSL and OSL were won or greatly affected by players who are relevant, nay, dominant today. I could've counted all of Savior's MSLs if I was trying to make a case against terran. The date at which I set my stats on makes sense in its relevance to current progaming and you're out of your rocker if you think what I did was particularly arbitrary. ugh I don't know why I argue with people who have quotes like yours in their sigs. They basically just pick a hate campaign to rally behind and disregard anything other people say so they can just thoughtlessly regurgitate soundbites.
The quote was from Sea a terran player- I actually think it's quite humorously worded. I can't understand terran fans getting angry because of a quote from a terran player.
Anyway, I understand your point if you focus on more recent years then zerg has won more titles. I just was reminding people that overall terran has won the most titles- a lot of the newer members might not even know this. There really is no argument so no need to get dramatic.
Also I'm not sure where the statistic is but I remember someone showed that overall of all the pro matches played terran has something like a 56%-44% record against zerg. Another thing worth remembering.
Edit- Ok maybe more like 54%-
# Matchup all-time records:
* TvZ: 1544-1323 (53.85%)
* ZvP: 982-855 (53.46%)
* PvT: 1120-1072 (51.09%)
These stats are from a few years ago. If anyone has more up-to-date stats I'd like to see them.
|
Holy fuck stop riding TTT's ass. You two (tomato and that other guy) are like little kids out to prove your power ranger is the best one.
|
Holy shit, Zerg players are ridiculously whiny these days. Literally every thread is getting destroyed by ''Terran is imba'' complaints. Even when the Zergs are winning. -__-
|
|
|
On August 12 2010 17:47 Letmelose wrote:Show nested quote +On August 12 2010 17:40 TwoToneTerran wrote:On August 12 2010 17:37 Letmelose wrote:On August 12 2010 17:30 TwoToneTerran wrote:On August 12 2010 17:29 Letmelose wrote:On August 12 2010 17:16 TwoToneTerran wrote:On August 12 2010 17:08 Letmelose wrote:On August 12 2010 17:00 TwoToneTerran wrote:On August 12 2010 16:50 Letmelose wrote:On August 12 2010 16:40 TwoToneTerran wrote:
[quote]
Not entirely! This is MSL, Jaedong only won twice. He's actually behind Bisu in that regard. It's just zerg has some secondary players who were capable of taking home gold in Calm/Luxury. Terran has an even spread with Mind/Flash/ForGG.
Expect the OSL to be much more one sided. :o If I remember correctly. Ro16, Offlines, Offlines, 1st place, 2nd place, Ro16, Ro32, Ro4, 1st place, 2nd place. Jaedong has 85 points according to your system 1st place, 1st place, 2nd place, Ro32, Ro32, 1st place, Ro32, Ro8, Ro32, Ro32 Bisu has 85 points according to your system. They're even, but zerg has faced harder times overall. Can you name ANY other player that reached two finals in a row, while being the only representative of his race in the round of eight both times? No but that's kind of a silly and arbitrary way to state that Jaedong's great. We all know Jaedong's great, why are you being a jerk and shoving it down my throat when I'm just doing this out of the kindness of my morbidly curious heart? :> waaaah Zergs have it rough they've only won more titles than everyone in the modern era. :p Making the OSL post as we speak. Take Jaedong away, and the entire statistics will be changed for his race than any other player out there in the modern era. That was the point I was trying to make. Don't pretend otherwise, terrans have always been the dominating race in Starcraft ever since the 1.08 patch, and is least affected even if you take away the player of the highest score within the race. Jaedong just happens to be awesome enough to keep the zerg race even statistically. Keep in mind that OSL has an Ro36 format instead of the Ro32 format of the MSL when you make the statistic. holy crap you are a broken record. You just stated that Bisu had the same impact in the overall scheme of things with my little rating system. Why are you saying I'm pretending Jaedong isn't great? You keep shoving words down my throat in defense of Jaedong, I've never said anything bad about Jaedong. You are really mad at something and it shouldn't be me, so I suggest you leave me be. The statistic will scale fine, by the way. I start with the group stages which are the tournament proper. OSL pre Ro16 is a big changing mess each season anyway, especially with the match fixing scandal and ACE recruitment and blaaaah. Why can't you deal with your own stastics being thrown at your face? Zergs have not been dominating the post-Savior era, and if it appears to be so, it's the power of Jaedong. What part of the total number of points being relied upon one player more so than any other race don't you get? Haha you're gonna fucking love the OSL stats Haven't seen it, but I guess Jaedong's great success in it, coupled with the lack of success from protoss have made your argument that zergs have wiped the floor with everybody in recent years more convincing? It's not just the individual leagues I'm talking about here. Check the Proleague stastics, check out the number of terran players overall, be it top ranked Kespa players, or simply in the Proleague rosters. Wipe that. Just take all the televised games in recent years and see which race has won the most. I haven't checked any of these, but I'm pretty sure most of it will have terran in front of the other two races. Holy shit shut the fuck up, this isn't even an argument. I have said countless times Jaedong is a great, if not greatest player ever. Stop trying to rub your goddamn bias in my face. This little project of mine has nothing to do with my bias, it's just me throwing together a metric and plotting some goddamn trends. I don't care which race has it better -- there was an argument in the thread over it so I went "Oh hey you know what would make this argument easier to settle? Some nice numbers!" entirely free of my bias. I didn't cheese any numbers, and I don't support one race over the other. What I'm saying is go away you dumb fanboy god. I'm sorry that you can't deal with facts. If I could be bothered to look up the numbers, there would be so many ways to proving that terrans are the most dominating race overall. It's just that zergs have caught up a lot in recent years. If this frustrates you, then I'll leave you alone.
The moon is made of cheese, I'm just too lazy to prove it.
|
When was the last time Stork didn't get silver in any WCG?
|
2-0ed by Pure? Disturbing, Stork.
|
On August 12 2010 17:37 Letmelose wrote:Show nested quote +On August 12 2010 17:30 TwoToneTerran wrote:On August 12 2010 17:29 Letmelose wrote:On August 12 2010 17:16 TwoToneTerran wrote:On August 12 2010 17:08 Letmelose wrote:On August 12 2010 17:00 TwoToneTerran wrote:On August 12 2010 16:50 Letmelose wrote:On August 12 2010 16:40 TwoToneTerran wrote:On August 12 2010 16:34 Letmelose wrote:On August 12 2010 16:33 TwoToneTerran wrote:
It just goes to show how well zergs operate in crunchtime, as well. Despite having the lowest average of success in tournaments, they win more titles. Atleast in the current era. If you go back to like 2001 or something then it's just nada and boxer taking all the points. :> The power of Jaedong. Not entirely! This is MSL, Jaedong only won twice. He's actually behind Bisu in that regard. It's just zerg has some secondary players who were capable of taking home gold in Calm/Luxury. Terran has an even spread with Mind/Flash/ForGG. Expect the OSL to be much more one sided. :o If I remember correctly. Ro16, Offlines, Offlines, 1st place, 2nd place, Ro16, Ro32, Ro4, 1st place, 2nd place. Jaedong has 85 points according to your system 1st place, 1st place, 2nd place, Ro32, Ro32, 1st place, Ro32, Ro8, Ro32, Ro32 Bisu has 85 points according to your system. They're even, but zerg has faced harder times overall. Can you name ANY other player that reached two finals in a row, while being the only representative of his race in the round of eight both times? No but that's kind of a silly and arbitrary way to state that Jaedong's great. We all know Jaedong's great, why are you being a jerk and shoving it down my throat when I'm just doing this out of the kindness of my morbidly curious heart? :> waaaah Zergs have it rough they've only won more titles than everyone in the modern era. :p Making the OSL post as we speak. Take Jaedong away, and the entire statistics will be changed for his race than any other player out there in the modern era. That was the point I was trying to make. Don't pretend otherwise, terrans have always been the dominating race in Starcraft ever since the 1.08 patch, and is least affected even if you take away the player of the highest score within the race. Jaedong just happens to be awesome enough to keep the zerg race even statistically. Keep in mind that OSL has an Ro36 format instead of the Ro32 format of the MSL when you make the statistic. holy crap you are a broken record. You just stated that Bisu had the same impact in the overall scheme of things with my little rating system. Why are you saying I'm pretending Jaedong isn't great? You keep shoving words down my throat in defense of Jaedong, I've never said anything bad about Jaedong. You are really mad at something and it shouldn't be me, so I suggest you leave me be. The statistic will scale fine, by the way. I start with the group stages which are the tournament proper. OSL pre Ro16 is a big changing mess each season anyway, especially with the match fixing scandal and ACE recruitment and blaaaah. Why can't you deal with your own stastics being thrown at your face? Zergs have not been dominating the post-Savior era, and if it appears to be so, it's the power of Jaedong. What part of the total number of points being relied upon one player more so than any other race don't you get? Haha you're gonna fucking love the OSL stats Haven't seen it, but I guess Jaedong's great success in it, coupled with the lack of success from protoss have made your argument that zergs have wiped the floor with everybody in recent years more convincing? It's not just the individual leagues I'm talking about here. Check the Proleague stastics, check out the number of terran players overall, be it top ranked Kespa players, or simply in the Proleague rosters. Wipe that. Just take all the televised games in recent years and see which race has won the most. I haven't checked any of these, but I'm pretty sure most of it will have terran in front of the other two races.
Haha why do you even post? All of your posts just say "terran is imba but because of JAEDONG MY HERO zerg looks okay. I refuse to back this up in any way but STOP DENYING IT!" Do you think this is a normal way to try to prove a point?
I think sc2 whining has bled into bw -_-
|
What the hell stork.... how did you lose 2-0....
|
On August 13 2010 00:40 huameng wrote:Show nested quote +On August 12 2010 17:37 Letmelose wrote:On August 12 2010 17:30 TwoToneTerran wrote:On August 12 2010 17:29 Letmelose wrote:On August 12 2010 17:16 TwoToneTerran wrote:On August 12 2010 17:08 Letmelose wrote:On August 12 2010 17:00 TwoToneTerran wrote:On August 12 2010 16:50 Letmelose wrote:On August 12 2010 16:40 TwoToneTerran wrote:On August 12 2010 16:34 Letmelose wrote:
[quote]
The power of Jaedong. Not entirely! This is MSL, Jaedong only won twice. He's actually behind Bisu in that regard. It's just zerg has some secondary players who were capable of taking home gold in Calm/Luxury. Terran has an even spread with Mind/Flash/ForGG. Expect the OSL to be much more one sided. :o If I remember correctly. Ro16, Offlines, Offlines, 1st place, 2nd place, Ro16, Ro32, Ro4, 1st place, 2nd place. Jaedong has 85 points according to your system 1st place, 1st place, 2nd place, Ro32, Ro32, 1st place, Ro32, Ro8, Ro32, Ro32 Bisu has 85 points according to your system. They're even, but zerg has faced harder times overall. Can you name ANY other player that reached two finals in a row, while being the only representative of his race in the round of eight both times? No but that's kind of a silly and arbitrary way to state that Jaedong's great. We all know Jaedong's great, why are you being a jerk and shoving it down my throat when I'm just doing this out of the kindness of my morbidly curious heart? :> waaaah Zergs have it rough they've only won more titles than everyone in the modern era. :p Making the OSL post as we speak. Take Jaedong away, and the entire statistics will be changed for his race than any other player out there in the modern era. That was the point I was trying to make. Don't pretend otherwise, terrans have always been the dominating race in Starcraft ever since the 1.08 patch, and is least affected even if you take away the player of the highest score within the race. Jaedong just happens to be awesome enough to keep the zerg race even statistically. Keep in mind that OSL has an Ro36 format instead of the Ro32 format of the MSL when you make the statistic. holy crap you are a broken record. You just stated that Bisu had the same impact in the overall scheme of things with my little rating system. Why are you saying I'm pretending Jaedong isn't great? You keep shoving words down my throat in defense of Jaedong, I've never said anything bad about Jaedong. You are really mad at something and it shouldn't be me, so I suggest you leave me be. The statistic will scale fine, by the way. I start with the group stages which are the tournament proper. OSL pre Ro16 is a big changing mess each season anyway, especially with the match fixing scandal and ACE recruitment and blaaaah. Why can't you deal with your own stastics being thrown at your face? Zergs have not been dominating the post-Savior era, and if it appears to be so, it's the power of Jaedong. What part of the total number of points being relied upon one player more so than any other race don't you get? Haha you're gonna fucking love the OSL stats Haven't seen it, but I guess Jaedong's great success in it, coupled with the lack of success from protoss have made your argument that zergs have wiped the floor with everybody in recent years more convincing? It's not just the individual leagues I'm talking about here. Check the Proleague stastics, check out the number of terran players overall, be it top ranked Kespa players, or simply in the Proleague rosters. Wipe that. Just take all the televised games in recent years and see which race has won the most. I haven't checked any of these, but I'm pretty sure most of it will have terran in front of the other two races. Haha why do you even post? All of your posts just say "terran is imba but because of JAEDONG MY HERO zerg looks okay. I refuse to back this up in any way but STOP DENYING IT!" Do you think this is a normal way to try to prove a point? I think sc2 whining has bled into bw -_-
Time to back my theory up.
1) Since the start of the 2007 season (not the year 2007), YGOSU records the following:
TvT 1883 matches
ZvZ 1777 matches
PvP 1320 matches
TvZ 2632 : 2311 in terran’s favour
ZvP 2325 : 1915 in zerg’s favour
PvT 2313 : 2094 in protoss’s favour
Terran is 4726 : 4405 overall against other races
Zerg is 4636 : 4547 overall against other races
Protoss is 4228 : 4419 overall against other races
Terran’s have won the most, and lost the least in non-mirror match-ups. Terran versus terran also happens to be the most played mirror in the game.
2) This is how the record is changed if we count Kespa officiated matches only:
TvT 1038 matches
ZvZ 782 matches
PvP 633 matches
TvZ 892 : 753 in terran’s favour
ZvP 694 : 617 in zerg’s favour
PvT 802 : 737 in protoss’s favour
Terran is 1629 : 1555 overall against other races
Zerg is 1447 : 1509 overall against other races
Protoss is 1419 : 1431 overall against other races
Terran is the only race that happens to have a positive overall record in non-mirror match-ups. Terran versus terran remains the most played mirror in the game.
3) This is how the record is changed if we count Proleague matches only:
TvT 742 matches
ZvZ 601 matches
PvP 490 matches
TvZ 486 : 399 in terran’s favour
ZvP 424 : 375 in zerg’s favour
PvT 462 : 429 in protoss’s favour
Terran is 915 : 828 overall against other races
Zerg is 823 : 861 overall against other races
Protoss is 837 : 853 overall against other races
Terran has again won the most, and lost the least in non-mirror match-ups. Terran versus terran remains the most played mirror.
4) This is how the record is changed if we count individual league matches only:
TvT 208 matches
ZvZ 136 matches
PvP 129 matches
TvZ 250 : 249 in zerg’s favour
ZvP 185 : 148 in zerg’s favour
PvT 244 : 214 in protoss’s favour
Terran is 463 : 494 overall against other races
Zerg is 435 : 397 overall against other races
Protoss is 392 : 399 overall against other races
Zerg is the only race that happens to have a positive overall record in non-mirror match-ups. Terran versus terran remains the most played mirror.
Zerg is the only race that happens to have a positive record in both their match-ups. I guess this is where the consensus that zergs have dominated the other races in recent years stems from.
Considering how much individual league statistics are influenced due to the nature of brackets, the relatively small amount of gaming pool and greater number of games played at higher stages (Bo3, Bo5), it’s not a far fetched thing to say that the might of a few players do change the overall appearance of things in my opinion. I’m just claiming the obvious here, nothing against the common consensus of any well reasoned follower of the progaming scene. How my opinion that terrans are still the most dominating race in the progaming scene, and that the results of individual leagues are swayed greatly by the most successful gamer of our era is somehow so far stretched that it borders on insane ramblings of a blind fanboy is beyond me.
|
See, protoss is the weakest race.
On August 13 2010 00:16 andrewlt wrote:
When was the last time Stork didn't get silver in any WCG?
06, sad i know. =( =(
|
|
|
Oh my god. This is becoming unbearable. People whining like primary school kids about imbalance. Imba this imba that. Imba Terran, poor Zergs can't win against imba Terran... Imba terran this, imba terran that... God...
Every single thread.
You can pull out all the statistics and one thing will remain true. At most there is slight imbalance in favour of Terran in TvZ. No matter how the hell you will try to tilt the statistics towards your liking the ration in TvZ will be at MOST 55:45. And it FLUCTUATES a lot. That's how it is, how it was and how it will be. So please just stop that BS!
|
LMAO, what the hell Stork xD!?!?
|
On August 13 2010 08:52 Lebesgue wrote:
Oh my god. This is becoming unbearable. People whining like primary school kids about imbalance. Imba this imba that. Imba Terran, poor Zergs can't win against imba Terran... Imba terran this, imba terran that... God...
Every single thread.
You can pull out all the statistics and one thing will remain true. At most there is slight imbalance in favour of Terran in TvZ. No matter how the hell you will try to tilt the statistics towards your liking the ration in TvZ will be at MOST 55:45. And it FLUCTUATES a lot. That's how it is, how it was and how it will be. So please just stop that BS!
The last thing I wanted to do was look up numbers on YGOSU just to back up one of the most obvious statement around. It really is a completely pointless endeavor that was only done for the sake of closure. Make what you will of all this, because to be quite frank, the people on the otherside of the fence are just as incoherent with their arguments, and seem to be incapable of dealing with cold, hard facts.
|
On August 12 2010 23:30 Holgerius wrote:
Holy shit, Zerg players are ridiculously whiny these days. Literally every thread is getting destroyed by ''Terran is imba'' complaints. Even when the Zergs are winning. -__-
The terran fans started it this time buddy boy- they were whining about zerg being too dominant, I was just rebutting it.
Read all the freaking thread before making silly comments.
|
sc2 made TL imba
|
On August 13 2010 04:47 Letmelose wrote:Show nested quote +On August 13 2010 00:40 huameng wrote:On August 12 2010 17:37 Letmelose wrote:On August 12 2010 17:30 TwoToneTerran wrote:On August 12 2010 17:29 Letmelose wrote:On August 12 2010 17:16 TwoToneTerran wrote:On August 12 2010 17:08 Letmelose wrote:On August 12 2010 17:00 TwoToneTerran wrote:On August 12 2010 16:50 Letmelose wrote:On August 12 2010 16:40 TwoToneTerran wrote:
[quote]
Not entirely! This is MSL, Jaedong only won twice. He's actually behind Bisu in that regard. It's just zerg has some secondary players who were capable of taking home gold in Calm/Luxury. Terran has an even spread with Mind/Flash/ForGG.
Expect the OSL to be much more one sided. :o If I remember correctly. Ro16, Offlines, Offlines, 1st place, 2nd place, Ro16, Ro32, Ro4, 1st place, 2nd place. Jaedong has 85 points according to your system 1st place, 1st place, 2nd place, Ro32, Ro32, 1st place, Ro32, Ro8, Ro32, Ro32 Bisu has 85 points according to your system. They're even, but zerg has faced harder times overall. Can you name ANY other player that reached two finals in a row, while being the only representative of his race in the round of eight both times? No but that's kind of a silly and arbitrary way to state that Jaedong's great. We all know Jaedong's great, why are you being a jerk and shoving it down my throat when I'm just doing this out of the kindness of my morbidly curious heart? :> waaaah Zergs have it rough they've only won more titles than everyone in the modern era. :p Making the OSL post as we speak. Take Jaedong away, and the entire statistics will be changed for his race than any other player out there in the modern era. That was the point I was trying to make. Don't pretend otherwise, terrans have always been the dominating race in Starcraft ever since the 1.08 patch, and is least affected even if you take away the player of the highest score within the race. Jaedong just happens to be awesome enough to keep the zerg race even statistically. Keep in mind that OSL has an Ro36 format instead of the Ro32 format of the MSL when you make the statistic. holy crap you are a broken record. You just stated that Bisu had the same impact in the overall scheme of things with my little rating system. Why are you saying I'm pretending Jaedong isn't great? You keep shoving words down my throat in defense of Jaedong, I've never said anything bad about Jaedong. You are really mad at something and it shouldn't be me, so I suggest you leave me be. The statistic will scale fine, by the way. I start with the group stages which are the tournament proper. OSL pre Ro16 is a big changing mess each season anyway, especially with the match fixing scandal and ACE recruitment and blaaaah. Why can't you deal with your own stastics being thrown at your face? Zergs have not been dominating the post-Savior era, and if it appears to be so, it's the power of Jaedong. What part of the total number of points being relied upon one player more so than any other race don't you get? Haha you're gonna fucking love the OSL stats Haven't seen it, but I guess Jaedong's great success in it, coupled with the lack of success from protoss have made your argument that zergs have wiped the floor with everybody in recent years more convincing? It's not just the individual leagues I'm talking about here. Check the Proleague stastics, check out the number of terran players overall, be it top ranked Kespa players, or simply in the Proleague rosters. Wipe that. Just take all the televised games in recent years and see which race has won the most. I haven't checked any of these, but I'm pretty sure most of it will have terran in front of the other two races. Haha why do you even post? All of your posts just say "terran is imba but because of JAEDONG MY HERO zerg looks okay. I refuse to back this up in any way but STOP DENYING IT!" Do you think this is a normal way to try to prove a point? I think sc2 whining has bled into bw -_- Time to back my theory up. 1) Since the start of the 2007 season (not the year 2007), YGOSU records the following: TvT 1883 matches ZvZ 1777 matches PvP 1320 matches TvZ 2632 : 2311 in terran’s favour ZvP 2325 : 1915 in zerg’s favour PvT 2313 : 2094 in protoss’s favour Terran is 4726 : 4405 overall against other races Zerg is 4636 : 4547 overall against other races Protoss is 4228 : 4419 overall against other races Terran’s have won the most, and lost the least in non-mirror match-ups. Terran versus terran also happens to be the most played mirror in the game. 2) This is how the record is changed if we count Kespa officiated matches only: TvT 1038 matches ZvZ 782 matches PvP 633 matches TvZ 892 : 753 in terran’s favour ZvP 694 : 617 in zerg’s favour PvT 802 : 737 in protoss’s favour Terran is 1629 : 1555 overall against other races Zerg is 1447 : 1509 overall against other races Protoss is 1419 : 1431 overall against other races Terran is the only race that happens to have a positive overall record in non-mirror match-ups. Terran versus terran remains the most played mirror in the game. 3) This is how the record is changed if we count Proleague matches only: TvT 742 matches ZvZ 601 matches PvP 490 matches TvZ 486 : 399 in terran’s favour ZvP 424 : 375 in zerg’s favour PvT 462 : 429 in protoss’s favour Terran is 915 : 828 overall against other races Zerg is 823 : 861 overall against other races Protoss is 837 : 853 overall against other races Terran has again won the most, and lost the least in non-mirror match-ups. Terran versus terran remains the most played mirror. 4) This is how the record is changed if we count individual league matches only: TvT 208 matches ZvZ 136 matches PvP 129 matches TvZ 250 : 249 in zerg’s favour ZvP 185 : 148 in zerg’s favour PvT 244 : 214 in protoss’s favour Terran is 463 : 494 overall against other races Zerg is 435 : 397 overall against other races Protoss is 392 : 399 overall against other races Zerg is the only race that happens to have a positive overall record in non-mirror match-ups. Terran versus terran remains the most played mirror. Zerg is the only race that happens to have a positive record in both their match-ups. I guess this is where the consensus that zergs have dominated the other races in recent years stems from. Considering how much individual league statistics are influenced due to the nature of brackets, the relatively small amount of gaming pool and greater number of games played at higher stages (Bo3, Bo5), it’s not a far fetched thing to say that the might of a few players do change the overall appearance of things in my opinion. I’m just claiming the obvious here, nothing against the common consensus of any well reasoned follower of the progaming scene. How my opinion that terrans are still the most dominating race in the progaming scene, and that the results of individual leagues are swayed greatly by the most successful gamer of our era is somehow so far stretched that it borders on insane ramblings of a blind fanboy is beyond me.
Are you kidding me? Divide your own data here:
TvZ : 53.25% Terran Favor
ZvP : 54.83% Zerg Favor
PvT : 52.48% Protoss Favor
Combined: Favor in good + (1-Favor) in bad
T : 0.5325+(1-0.5248) = 1.0077
Z : 0.5483+(1-0.5325) = 1.0158
P : 0.5248+(1-0.5483) = 0.9765
A) TvZ isn't the most imba matchup by this data
B) We're talking 2.48-4.83% imbalance in matchups, is this so insurmountable as to complain this much?
C) Using this rough combined metric (seems plausible to me) things are god damn balanced, but if you want to split hairs Z has it better than T by some insignificant margin.
Do not take away from this: Z is imba
Do take from this: Nobody is imba, Toss needs a little love, STFU with Terran imba garbage
Edit: This is the kespa+nonkespa data. I'm at work so I cant run the other numbers now.
|
omg stork.. 2-0.. that's just sad... and I thought you going to go for silver again T_T
|
On August 13 2010 23:14 revy wrote:Show nested quote +On August 13 2010 04:47 Letmelose wrote:On August 13 2010 00:40 huameng wrote:On August 12 2010 17:37 Letmelose wrote:On August 12 2010 17:30 TwoToneTerran wrote:On August 12 2010 17:29 Letmelose wrote:On August 12 2010 17:16 TwoToneTerran wrote:On August 12 2010 17:08 Letmelose wrote:On August 12 2010 17:00 TwoToneTerran wrote:On August 12 2010 16:50 Letmelose wrote:
[quote]
If I remember correctly.
Ro16, Offlines, Offlines, 1st place, 2nd place, Ro16, Ro32, Ro4, 1st place, 2nd place.
Jaedong has 85 points according to your system
1st place, 1st place, 2nd place, Ro32, Ro32, 1st place, Ro32, Ro8, Ro32, Ro32
Bisu has 85 points according to your system.
They're even, but zerg has faced harder times overall. Can you name ANY other player that reached two finals in a row, while being the only representative of his race in the round of eight both times? No but that's kind of a silly and arbitrary way to state that Jaedong's great. We all know Jaedong's great, why are you being a jerk and shoving it down my throat when I'm just doing this out of the kindness of my morbidly curious heart? :> waaaah Zergs have it rough they've only won more titles than everyone in the modern era. :p Making the OSL post as we speak. Take Jaedong away, and the entire statistics will be changed for his race than any other player out there in the modern era. That was the point I was trying to make. Don't pretend otherwise, terrans have always been the dominating race in Starcraft ever since the 1.08 patch, and is least affected even if you take away the player of the highest score within the race. Jaedong just happens to be awesome enough to keep the zerg race even statistically. Keep in mind that OSL has an Ro36 format instead of the Ro32 format of the MSL when you make the statistic. holy crap you are a broken record. You just stated that Bisu had the same impact in the overall scheme of things with my little rating system. Why are you saying I'm pretending Jaedong isn't great? You keep shoving words down my throat in defense of Jaedong, I've never said anything bad about Jaedong. You are really mad at something and it shouldn't be me, so I suggest you leave me be. The statistic will scale fine, by the way. I start with the group stages which are the tournament proper. OSL pre Ro16 is a big changing mess each season anyway, especially with the match fixing scandal and ACE recruitment and blaaaah. Why can't you deal with your own stastics being thrown at your face? Zergs have not been dominating the post-Savior era, and if it appears to be so, it's the power of Jaedong. What part of the total number of points being relied upon one player more so than any other race don't you get? Haha you're gonna fucking love the OSL stats Haven't seen it, but I guess Jaedong's great success in it, coupled with the lack of success from protoss have made your argument that zergs have wiped the floor with everybody in recent years more convincing? It's not just the individual leagues I'm talking about here. Check the Proleague stastics, check out the number of terran players overall, be it top ranked Kespa players, or simply in the Proleague rosters. Wipe that. Just take all the televised games in recent years and see which race has won the most. I haven't checked any of these, but I'm pretty sure most of it will have terran in front of the other two races. Haha why do you even post? All of your posts just say "terran is imba but because of JAEDONG MY HERO zerg looks okay. I refuse to back this up in any way but STOP DENYING IT!" Do you think this is a normal way to try to prove a point? I think sc2 whining has bled into bw -_- Time to back my theory up. 1) Since the start of the 2007 season (not the year 2007), YGOSU records the following: TvT 1883 matches ZvZ 1777 matches PvP 1320 matches TvZ 2632 : 2311 in terran’s favour ZvP 2325 : 1915 in zerg’s favour PvT 2313 : 2094 in protoss’s favour Terran is 4726 : 4405 overall against other races Zerg is 4636 : 4547 overall against other races Protoss is 4228 : 4419 overall against other races Terran’s have won the most, and lost the least in non-mirror match-ups. Terran versus terran also happens to be the most played mirror in the game. 2) This is how the record is changed if we count Kespa officiated matches only: TvT 1038 matches ZvZ 782 matches PvP 633 matches TvZ 892 : 753 in terran’s favour ZvP 694 : 617 in zerg’s favour PvT 802 : 737 in protoss’s favour Terran is 1629 : 1555 overall against other races Zerg is 1447 : 1509 overall against other races Protoss is 1419 : 1431 overall against other races Terran is the only race that happens to have a positive overall record in non-mirror match-ups. Terran versus terran remains the most played mirror in the game. 3) This is how the record is changed if we count Proleague matches only: TvT 742 matches ZvZ 601 matches PvP 490 matches TvZ 486 : 399 in terran’s favour ZvP 424 : 375 in zerg’s favour PvT 462 : 429 in protoss’s favour Terran is 915 : 828 overall against other races Zerg is 823 : 861 overall against other races Protoss is 837 : 853 overall against other races Terran has again won the most, and lost the least in non-mirror match-ups. Terran versus terran remains the most played mirror. 4) This is how the record is changed if we count individual league matches only: TvT 208 matches ZvZ 136 matches PvP 129 matches TvZ 250 : 249 in zerg’s favour ZvP 185 : 148 in zerg’s favour PvT 244 : 214 in protoss’s favour Terran is 463 : 494 overall against other races Zerg is 435 : 397 overall against other races Protoss is 392 : 399 overall against other races Zerg is the only race that happens to have a positive overall record in non-mirror match-ups. Terran versus terran remains the most played mirror. Zerg is the only race that happens to have a positive record in both their match-ups. I guess this is where the consensus that zergs have dominated the other races in recent years stems from. Considering how much individual league statistics are influenced due to the nature of brackets, the relatively small amount of gaming pool and greater number of games played at higher stages (Bo3, Bo5), it’s not a far fetched thing to say that the might of a few players do change the overall appearance of things in my opinion. I’m just claiming the obvious here, nothing against the common consensus of any well reasoned follower of the progaming scene. How my opinion that terrans are still the most dominating race in the progaming scene, and that the results of individual leagues are swayed greatly by the most successful gamer of our era is somehow so far stretched that it borders on insane ramblings of a blind fanboy is beyond me. Are you kidding me? Divide your own data here: TvZ : 53.25% Terran Favor ZvP : 54.83% Zerg Favor PvT : 52.48% Protoss Favor Combined: Favor in good + (1-Favor) in bad T : 0.5325+(1-0.5248) = 1.0077 Z : 0.5483+(1-0.5325) = 1.0158 P : 0.5248+(1-0.5483) = 0.9765 A) TvZ isn't the most imba matchup by this data B) We're talking 2.48-4.83% imbalance in matchups, is this so insurmountable as to complain this much? C) Using this rough combined metric (seems plausible to me) things are god damn balanced, but if you want to split hairs Z has it better than T by some insignificant margin. Do not take away from this: Z is imba Do take from this: Nobody is imba, Toss needs a little love, STFU with Terran imba garbage Edit: This is the kespa+nonkespa data. I'm at work so I cant run the other numbers now.
What part of terran players participating in more televised matches, having more victories and having less defeats despite the greater number of games in non-mirror match-ups don't you get? Why do you think I bothered to list the number of mirror match-ups? Do you think it's a coincidence that terran versus terran happens to be the most played mirror in the scene at every level imaginable? Is it a simple flip of the coin that terran players have represented their team far more than the other two races?
The greater the pool of games we take, the more dominant the terran presence becomes. It's not just about the winning ratio, although it's interesting that you decided to present it as an average of the winning ratio between the two non-mirror match-ups, when I thought a simple calculation of the actual number of games won and games lost in non-mirror match-ups would have been sufficient. There are plenty of other factors to consider, a few of which I have mentioned above.
I find myself repeating the same thing ad infinitum here, and I hope this will be the last time I mention this.
Terrans have pretty much always have been the race to be in the progaming scene. The difference is not much, but it is substantial enough for most people to have noticed. It didn't matter which statistic you took, be it the number of individual leagues won, number of televised matches won, the number of top ranked players, the overall winning ratio in televised matches etc. However, terran superiority over the other two races (however slight it is, it was there) has become less significant in recent years, especially in the individual league with the success of some select few individuals, with Jaedong, being by far the most noticable.
It does not change the fact, that terran players today, are still the most played, most trusted by the coaches, most successful in terms of the number of games won in the scene. To claim that zerg as a whole race, have dominated the scene in recent years seemed to me the arguments of someone who got a little too overwhelmed by the number of individual league trophies taken by zerg in recent years. Surely, it had a lot to do with the individual success of the most successful player of our era. I don't see what was so sacrilegious about my argument.
|
On August 14 2010 00:08 Letmelose wrote:Show nested quote +On August 13 2010 23:14 revy wrote:On August 13 2010 04:47 Letmelose wrote:On August 13 2010 00:40 huameng wrote:On August 12 2010 17:37 Letmelose wrote:On August 12 2010 17:30 TwoToneTerran wrote:On August 12 2010 17:29 Letmelose wrote:On August 12 2010 17:16 TwoToneTerran wrote:On August 12 2010 17:08 Letmelose wrote:On August 12 2010 17:00 TwoToneTerran wrote:
[quote]
No but that's kind of a silly and arbitrary way to state that Jaedong's great. We all know Jaedong's great, why are you being a jerk and shoving it down my throat when I'm just doing this out of the kindness of my morbidly curious heart? :> waaaah Zergs have it rough they've only won more titles than everyone in the modern era.
:p
Making the OSL post as we speak. Take Jaedong away, and the entire statistics will be changed for his race than any other player out there in the modern era. That was the point I was trying to make. Don't pretend otherwise, terrans have always been the dominating race in Starcraft ever since the 1.08 patch, and is least affected even if you take away the player of the highest score within the race. Jaedong just happens to be awesome enough to keep the zerg race even statistically. Keep in mind that OSL has an Ro36 format instead of the Ro32 format of the MSL when you make the statistic. holy crap you are a broken record. You just stated that Bisu had the same impact in the overall scheme of things with my little rating system. Why are you saying I'm pretending Jaedong isn't great? You keep shoving words down my throat in defense of Jaedong, I've never said anything bad about Jaedong. You are really mad at something and it shouldn't be me, so I suggest you leave me be. The statistic will scale fine, by the way. I start with the group stages which are the tournament proper. OSL pre Ro16 is a big changing mess each season anyway, especially with the match fixing scandal and ACE recruitment and blaaaah. Why can't you deal with your own stastics being thrown at your face? Zergs have not been dominating the post-Savior era, and if it appears to be so, it's the power of Jaedong. What part of the total number of points being relied upon one player more so than any other race don't you get? Haha you're gonna fucking love the OSL stats Haven't seen it, but I guess Jaedong's great success in it, coupled with the lack of success from protoss have made your argument that zergs have wiped the floor with everybody in recent years more convincing? It's not just the individual leagues I'm talking about here. Check the Proleague stastics, check out the number of terran players overall, be it top ranked Kespa players, or simply in the Proleague rosters. Wipe that. Just take all the televised games in recent years and see which race has won the most. I haven't checked any of these, but I'm pretty sure most of it will have terran in front of the other two races. Haha why do you even post? All of your posts just say "terran is imba but because of JAEDONG MY HERO zerg looks okay. I refuse to back this up in any way but STOP DENYING IT!" Do you think this is a normal way to try to prove a point? I think sc2 whining has bled into bw -_- Time to back my theory up. 1) Since the start of the 2007 season (not the year 2007), YGOSU records the following: TvT 1883 matches ZvZ 1777 matches PvP 1320 matches TvZ 2632 : 2311 in terran’s favour ZvP 2325 : 1915 in zerg’s favour PvT 2313 : 2094 in protoss’s favour Terran is 4726 : 4405 overall against other races Zerg is 4636 : 4547 overall against other races Protoss is 4228 : 4419 overall against other races Terran’s have won the most, and lost the least in non-mirror match-ups. Terran versus terran also happens to be the most played mirror in the game. 2) This is how the record is changed if we count Kespa officiated matches only: TvT 1038 matches ZvZ 782 matches PvP 633 matches TvZ 892 : 753 in terran’s favour ZvP 694 : 617 in zerg’s favour PvT 802 : 737 in protoss’s favour Terran is 1629 : 1555 overall against other races Zerg is 1447 : 1509 overall against other races Protoss is 1419 : 1431 overall against other races Terran is the only race that happens to have a positive overall record in non-mirror match-ups. Terran versus terran remains the most played mirror in the game. 3) This is how the record is changed if we count Proleague matches only: TvT 742 matches ZvZ 601 matches PvP 490 matches TvZ 486 : 399 in terran’s favour ZvP 424 : 375 in zerg’s favour PvT 462 : 429 in protoss’s favour Terran is 915 : 828 overall against other races Zerg is 823 : 861 overall against other races Protoss is 837 : 853 overall against other races Terran has again won the most, and lost the least in non-mirror match-ups. Terran versus terran remains the most played mirror. 4) This is how the record is changed if we count individual league matches only: TvT 208 matches ZvZ 136 matches PvP 129 matches TvZ 250 : 249 in zerg’s favour ZvP 185 : 148 in zerg’s favour PvT 244 : 214 in protoss’s favour Terran is 463 : 494 overall against other races Zerg is 435 : 397 overall against other races Protoss is 392 : 399 overall against other races Zerg is the only race that happens to have a positive overall record in non-mirror match-ups. Terran versus terran remains the most played mirror. Zerg is the only race that happens to have a positive record in both their match-ups. I guess this is where the consensus that zergs have dominated the other races in recent years stems from. Considering how much individual league statistics are influenced due to the nature of brackets, the relatively small amount of gaming pool and greater number of games played at higher stages (Bo3, Bo5), it’s not a far fetched thing to say that the might of a few players do change the overall appearance of things in my opinion. I’m just claiming the obvious here, nothing against the common consensus of any well reasoned follower of the progaming scene. How my opinion that terrans are still the most dominating race in the progaming scene, and that the results of individual leagues are swayed greatly by the most successful gamer of our era is somehow so far stretched that it borders on insane ramblings of a blind fanboy is beyond me. Are you kidding me? Divide your own data here: TvZ : 53.25% Terran Favor ZvP : 54.83% Zerg Favor PvT : 52.48% Protoss Favor Combined: Favor in good + (1-Favor) in bad T : 0.5325+(1-0.5248) = 1.0077 Z : 0.5483+(1-0.5325) = 1.0158 P : 0.5248+(1-0.5483) = 0.9765 A) TvZ isn't the most imba matchup by this data B) We're talking 2.48-4.83% imbalance in matchups, is this so insurmountable as to complain this much? C) Using this rough combined metric (seems plausible to me) things are god damn balanced, but if you want to split hairs Z has it better than T by some insignificant margin. Do not take away from this: Z is imba Do take from this: Nobody is imba, Toss needs a little love, STFU with Terran imba garbage Edit: This is the kespa+nonkespa data. I'm at work so I cant run the other numbers now. What part of terran players participating in more televised matches, having more victories and having less defeats despite the greater number of games in non-mirror match-ups don't you get? Why do you think I bothered to list the number of mirror match-ups? Do you think it's a coincidence that terran versus terran happens to be the most played mirror in the scene at every level imaginable? Is it a simple flip of the coin that terran players have represented their team far more than the other two races? The greater the pool of games we take, the more dominant the terran presence becomes. It's not just about the winning ratio, although it's interesting that you decided to present it as an average of the winning ratio between the two non-mirror match-ups, when I thought a simple calculation of the actual number of games won and games lost in non-mirror match-ups would have been sufficient. There are plenty of other factors to consider, a few of which I have mentioned above. I find myself repeating the same thing ad infinitum here, and I hope this will be the last time I mention this. Terrans have pretty much always have been the race to be in the progaming scene. The difference is not much, but it is substantial enough for most people to have noticed. It didn't matter which statistic you took, be it the number of individual leagues won, number of televised matches won, the number of top ranked players, the overall winning ratio in televised matches etc. However, terran superiority over the other two races (however slight it is, it was there) has become less significant in recent years, especially in the individual league with the success of some select few individuals, with Jaedong, being by far the most noticable. It does not change the fact, that terran players today, are still the most played, most trusted by the coaches, most successful in terms of the number of games won in the scene. To claim that zerg as a whole race, have dominated the scene in recent years seemed to me the arguments of someone who got a little too overwhelmed by the number of individual league trophies taken by zerg in recent years. Surely, it had a lot to do with the individual success of the most successful player of our era. I don't see what was so sacrilegious about my argument.
Perhaps there are more Terran players than others? Maybe that's why there are more mirror matchups. Infact that I remember there ARE more terrans than the other two races, that's why mirror matchups are pointless to look at. Why are there more terrans? Probably because Boxer, Oov, and Nada. Terran used to be terribly op or at least all the good players were terran for some reason, it isn't anymore.
I didn't save the data but % for kespa only support your claim, it was something like 52% for PvT and ZvP and 54% for TvZ. Again at work. The fact of the matter is a difference as small as 2-4% in a single matchup is so incredibly small.
|
On August 13 2010 04:47 Letmelose wrote:
Time to back my theory up.
1) Since the start of the 2007 season (not the year 2007), YGOSU records the following:
TvT 1883 matches
ZvZ 1777 matches
PvP 1320 matches
TvZ 2632 : 2311 in terran’s favour
ZvP 2325 : 1915 in zerg’s favour
PvT 2313 : 2094 in protoss’s favour
Terran is 4726 : 4405 overall against other races
Zerg is 4636 : 4547 overall against other races
Protoss is 4228 : 4419 overall against other races
Terran’s have won the most, and lost the least in non-mirror match-ups. Terran versus terran also happens to be the most played mirror in the game.
Let me ask just one thing here. See that bolded section?
So you said:
TvZ 2632 : 2311 in terran’s favour
PvT 2313 : 2094 in protoss’s favour
If I add that up... and please tell me if I'm doing something wrong
Terran win/loss vs other races: (2632 + 2094 : 2311 + 2313) = 4726 : 4624
And yet you state... "Terran is 4726 : 4405 overall against other races"
Okay. Either something is really wrong with what I've done (please enlighten me), or YGOSU adding programs are screwed up, or... your math sucks. Where did 4405 come out of??
As it stands, 4726 : 4624 seems MUCH MORE reasonable to me.
I haven't read any of the rest of your argument but if I see something equally questionable I'll ask it here.
EDIT 1:
Why do you CONSTANTLY state that TvT is the most played MU? How does that affect anything? It merely shows that Terran is the singular most popular race, completely unsurprising since Boxer is the leading figure in SC. In fact, I think that answers MORE questions that degrade your argument: since Terran is more popular, it naturally affects more "skilled players" as per the rules of proportion, and when those "skilled players" become progamers, more of them end up being Terrans (proportionally speaking vs Zerg & Toss). As a result, it makes perfect sense that TvT always remains the most popular MU, and I don't understand how that's supposed to help your argument.
EDIT 2:
So you basically proved, with your point # 4, that Zergs have been dominating over Terrans (and Toss) in the individual leagues as per the timescale that you chose. Doesn't that single point disprove your entire argument? Let's assume Terran WAS imba (Proof by contradiction). Then how can it not show in a huge part of the proscene (individual leagues)?? And not only does it not show, Zergs were extremely dominant according to your stats. If you assumption was correct, then the imba trend should manifest itself in what we consider to be literally HALF (or greater, to some people) of Professional Starcraft, and Zerg shouldn't have been SO dominant.
EDIT 3:
I have a key concern with your "methodology". You say Terrans have been more "dominant/imba" simply due to a difference in win differential; Terrans have positive wins, while the others might have negative, etc.
However, this methodology is, to me, clearly faulty in some cases. Let's look at your Point # 1 (after we fix your ridiculously-well-placed math error). As stated in EDIT 1, Terrans make up a larger proportion of gamers (due to popularity, or whatever). Using laws of probability, their difference in wins/losses SHOULD be larger than the difference of other races; the PERCENT PROBABILITY should remain the same/constant. Let's see:
Win/loss difference for Terrans: 102
Win/loss difference for Zergs: 89
Let's take the number of TvT's & ZvZ's: (1883 & 1777) as an estimate test proportion number for the number of Terrans/Zergs. 102/1883 = 0.054. 89/1777 = 0.05. That means if we assume a test population of equal numbers of T & Z (say, 1000 each), that means the win differential for Terrans should be 54, and the one for Zergs should be 50.
That's like... nothing. Barely any difference. How is that supposed to help your point?
The only thing I get from seeing your stats is that... wow... Protoss is getting raped by Zergs...
|
On August 14 2010 00:18 revy wrote:Show nested quote +On August 14 2010 00:08 Letmelose wrote:On August 13 2010 23:14 revy wrote:On August 13 2010 04:47 Letmelose wrote:On August 13 2010 00:40 huameng wrote:On August 12 2010 17:37 Letmelose wrote:On August 12 2010 17:30 TwoToneTerran wrote:On August 12 2010 17:29 Letmelose wrote:On August 12 2010 17:16 TwoToneTerran wrote:On August 12 2010 17:08 Letmelose wrote:
[quote]
Take Jaedong away, and the entire statistics will be changed for his race than any other player out there in the modern era. That was the point I was trying to make. Don't pretend otherwise, terrans have always been the dominating race in Starcraft ever since the 1.08 patch, and is least affected even if you take away the player of the highest score within the race. Jaedong just happens to be awesome enough to keep the zerg race even statistically.
Keep in mind that OSL has an Ro36 format instead of the Ro32 format of the MSL when you make the statistic. holy crap you are a broken record. You just stated that Bisu had the same impact in the overall scheme of things with my little rating system. Why are you saying I'm pretending Jaedong isn't great? You keep shoving words down my throat in defense of Jaedong, I've never said anything bad about Jaedong. You are really mad at something and it shouldn't be me, so I suggest you leave me be. The statistic will scale fine, by the way. I start with the group stages which are the tournament proper. OSL pre Ro16 is a big changing mess each season anyway, especially with the match fixing scandal and ACE recruitment and blaaaah. Why can't you deal with your own stastics being thrown at your face? Zergs have not been dominating the post-Savior era, and if it appears to be so, it's the power of Jaedong. What part of the total number of points being relied upon one player more so than any other race don't you get? Haha you're gonna fucking love the OSL stats Haven't seen it, but I guess Jaedong's great success in it, coupled with the lack of success from protoss have made your argument that zergs have wiped the floor with everybody in recent years more convincing? It's not just the individual leagues I'm talking about here. Check the Proleague stastics, check out the number of terran players overall, be it top ranked Kespa players, or simply in the Proleague rosters. Wipe that. Just take all the televised games in recent years and see which race has won the most. I haven't checked any of these, but I'm pretty sure most of it will have terran in front of the other two races. Haha why do you even post? All of your posts just say "terran is imba but because of JAEDONG MY HERO zerg looks okay. I refuse to back this up in any way but STOP DENYING IT!" Do you think this is a normal way to try to prove a point? I think sc2 whining has bled into bw -_- Time to back my theory up. 1) Since the start of the 2007 season (not the year 2007), YGOSU records the following: TvT 1883 matches ZvZ 1777 matches PvP 1320 matches TvZ 2632 : 2311 in terran’s favour ZvP 2325 : 1915 in zerg’s favour PvT 2313 : 2094 in protoss’s favour Terran is 4726 : 4405 overall against other races Zerg is 4636 : 4547 overall against other races Protoss is 4228 : 4419 overall against other races Terran’s have won the most, and lost the least in non-mirror match-ups. Terran versus terran also happens to be the most played mirror in the game. 2) This is how the record is changed if we count Kespa officiated matches only: TvT 1038 matches ZvZ 782 matches PvP 633 matches TvZ 892 : 753 in terran’s favour ZvP 694 : 617 in zerg’s favour PvT 802 : 737 in protoss’s favour Terran is 1629 : 1555 overall against other races Zerg is 1447 : 1509 overall against other races Protoss is 1419 : 1431 overall against other races Terran is the only race that happens to have a positive overall record in non-mirror match-ups. Terran versus terran remains the most played mirror in the game. 3) This is how the record is changed if we count Proleague matches only: TvT 742 matches ZvZ 601 matches PvP 490 matches TvZ 486 : 399 in terran’s favour ZvP 424 : 375 in zerg’s favour PvT 462 : 429 in protoss’s favour Terran is 915 : 828 overall against other races Zerg is 823 : 861 overall against other races Protoss is 837 : 853 overall against other races Terran has again won the most, and lost the least in non-mirror match-ups. Terran versus terran remains the most played mirror. 4) This is how the record is changed if we count individual league matches only: TvT 208 matches ZvZ 136 matches PvP 129 matches TvZ 250 : 249 in zerg’s favour ZvP 185 : 148 in zerg’s favour PvT 244 : 214 in protoss’s favour Terran is 463 : 494 overall against other races Zerg is 435 : 397 overall against other races Protoss is 392 : 399 overall against other races Zerg is the only race that happens to have a positive overall record in non-mirror match-ups. Terran versus terran remains the most played mirror. Zerg is the only race that happens to have a positive record in both their match-ups. I guess this is where the consensus that zergs have dominated the other races in recent years stems from. Considering how much individual league statistics are influenced due to the nature of brackets, the relatively small amount of gaming pool and greater number of games played at higher stages (Bo3, Bo5), it’s not a far fetched thing to say that the might of a few players do change the overall appearance of things in my opinion. I’m just claiming the obvious here, nothing against the common consensus of any well reasoned follower of the progaming scene. How my opinion that terrans are still the most dominating race in the progaming scene, and that the results of individual leagues are swayed greatly by the most successful gamer of our era is somehow so far stretched that it borders on insane ramblings of a blind fanboy is beyond me. Are you kidding me? Divide your own data here: TvZ : 53.25% Terran Favor ZvP : 54.83% Zerg Favor PvT : 52.48% Protoss Favor Combined: Favor in good + (1-Favor) in bad T : 0.5325+(1-0.5248) = 1.0077 Z : 0.5483+(1-0.5325) = 1.0158 P : 0.5248+(1-0.5483) = 0.9765 A) TvZ isn't the most imba matchup by this data B) We're talking 2.48-4.83% imbalance in matchups, is this so insurmountable as to complain this much? C) Using this rough combined metric (seems plausible to me) things are god damn balanced, but if you want to split hairs Z has it better than T by some insignificant margin. Do not take away from this: Z is imba Do take from this: Nobody is imba, Toss needs a little love, STFU with Terran imba garbage Edit: This is the kespa+nonkespa data. I'm at work so I cant run the other numbers now. What part of terran players participating in more televised matches, having more victories and having less defeats despite the greater number of games in non-mirror match-ups don't you get? Why do you think I bothered to list the number of mirror match-ups? Do you think it's a coincidence that terran versus terran happens to be the most played mirror in the scene at every level imaginable? Is it a simple flip of the coin that terran players have represented their team far more than the other two races? The greater the pool of games we take, the more dominant the terran presence becomes. It's not just about the winning ratio, although it's interesting that you decided to present it as an average of the winning ratio between the two non-mirror match-ups, when I thought a simple calculation of the actual number of games won and games lost in non-mirror match-ups would have been sufficient. There are plenty of other factors to consider, a few of which I have mentioned above. I find myself repeating the same thing ad infinitum here, and I hope this will be the last time I mention this. Terrans have pretty much always have been the race to be in the progaming scene. The difference is not much, but it is substantial enough for most people to have noticed. It didn't matter which statistic you took, be it the number of individual leagues won, number of televised matches won, the number of top ranked players, the overall winning ratio in televised matches etc. However, terran superiority over the other two races (however slight it is, it was there) has become less significant in recent years, especially in the individual league with the success of some select few individuals, with Jaedong, being by far the most noticable. It does not change the fact, that terran players today, are still the most played, most trusted by the coaches, most successful in terms of the number of games won in the scene. To claim that zerg as a whole race, have dominated the scene in recent years seemed to me the arguments of someone who got a little too overwhelmed by the number of individual league trophies taken by zerg in recent years. Surely, it had a lot to do with the individual success of the most successful player of our era. I don't see what was so sacrilegious about my argument. Perhaps there are more Terran players than others? Maybe that's why there are more mirror matchups. Infact that I remember there ARE more terrans than the other two races, that's why mirror matchups are pointless to look at. Why are there more terrans? Probably because Boxer, Oov, and Nada. Terran used to be terribly op or at least all the good players were terran for some reason, it isn't anymore. I didn't save the data but % for kespa only support your claim, it was something like 52% for PvT and ZvP and 54% for TvZ. Again at work. The fact of the matter is a difference as small as 2-4% in a single matchup is so incredibly small.
The number of registered progamers are roughly equal if I remember right. What's your source for the number of progamers for each race? Care to back it up? I seem to recall YGOSU, although its list is probably not entirely accurate (no, I'm not going to individually count from the shitty official Kespa webpage), listing zerg progamers as being the most numerous. Although, the number that actually appears on television, however, is a entirely different kettle of fish.
That's not what interests me, however. Don't you think that it's a little odd that despite your percentage figures, it doesn't change the fact that terran players won more games, while losing less games than the other two races lost in non-mirror match-ups at progaming level? Your percentage figures don't take into consideration the overall number of games played, otherwise it would be impossible for terrans to have won more, while losing less.
Repeating myself for the umpteenth time here.
More terrans on televison. Playing more games. Winning more games. Losing less games.
|
On August 14 2010 00:37 Wings wrote:Show nested quote +On August 13 2010 04:47 Letmelose wrote:
Time to back my theory up.
1) Since the start of the 2007 season (not the year 2007), YGOSU records the following:
TvT 1883 matches
ZvZ 1777 matches
PvP 1320 matches
TvZ 2632 : 2311 in terran’s favour
ZvP 2325 : 1915 in zerg’s favour
PvT 2313 : 2094 in protoss’s favour
Terran is 4726 : 4405 overall against other races
Zerg is 4636 : 4547 overall against other races
Protoss is 4228 : 4419 overall against other races
Terran’s have won the most, and lost the least in non-mirror match-ups. Terran versus terran also happens to be the most played mirror in the game.
Let me ask just one thing here. See that bolded section? So you said: TvZ 2632 : 2311 in terran’s favour PvT 2313 : 2094 in protoss’s favour If I add that up... and please tell me if I'm doing something wrong Terran win/loss vs other races: (2632 + 2094 : 2311 + 2313) = 4726 : 4624
And yet you state... " Terran is 4726 : 4405 overall against other races" Okay. Either something is really wrong with what I've done (please enlighten me), or YGOSU adding programs are screwed up, or... your math sucks. Where did 4405 come out of?? As it stands, 4726 : 4624 seems MUCH MORE reasonable to me. I haven't read any of the rest of your argument but if I see something equally questionable I'll ask it here.
Thanks for pointing the mistake out, makes the whole thing a lot more even.
|
On August 14 2010 00:52 Letmelose wrote:Show nested quote +On August 14 2010 00:37 Wings wrote:On August 13 2010 04:47 Letmelose wrote:
Time to back my theory up.
1) Since the start of the 2007 season (not the year 2007), YGOSU records the following:
TvT 1883 matches
ZvZ 1777 matches
PvP 1320 matches
TvZ 2632 : 2311 in terran’s favour
ZvP 2325 : 1915 in zerg’s favour
PvT 2313 : 2094 in protoss’s favour
Terran is 4726 : 4405 overall against other races
Zerg is 4636 : 4547 overall against other races
Protoss is 4228 : 4419 overall against other races
Terran’s have won the most, and lost the least in non-mirror match-ups. Terran versus terran also happens to be the most played mirror in the game.
Let me ask just one thing here. See that bolded section? So you said: TvZ 2632 : 2311 in terran’s favour PvT 2313 : 2094 in protoss’s favour If I add that up... and please tell me if I'm doing something wrong Terran win/loss vs other races: (2632 + 2094 : 2311 + 2313) = 4726 : 4624
And yet you state... " Terran is 4726 : 4405 overall against other races" Okay. Either something is really wrong with what I've done (please enlighten me), or YGOSU adding programs are screwed up, or... your math sucks. Where did 4405 come out of?? As it stands, 4726 : 4624 seems MUCH MORE reasonable to me. I haven't read any of the rest of your argument but if I see something equally questionable I'll ask it here. Thanks for pointing the mistake out, makes the whole thing a lot more even.
I've also raised a few other points as well in a few edits. Please check my earlier post (end of pg 25).
|
On August 14 2010 00:37 Wings wrote:Show nested quote +On August 13 2010 04:47 Letmelose wrote:
Time to back my theory up.
1) Since the start of the 2007 season (not the year 2007), YGOSU records the following:
TvT 1883 matches
ZvZ 1777 matches
PvP 1320 matches
TvZ 2632 : 2311 in terran’s favour
ZvP 2325 : 1915 in zerg’s favour
PvT 2313 : 2094 in protoss’s favour
Terran is 4726 : 4405 overall against other races
Zerg is 4636 : 4547 overall against other races
Protoss is 4228 : 4419 overall against other races
Terran’s have won the most, and lost the least in non-mirror match-ups. Terran versus terran also happens to be the most played mirror in the game.
Let me ask just one thing here. See that bolded section? So you said: TvZ 2632 : 2311 in terran’s favour PvT 2313 : 2094 in protoss’s favour If I add that up... and please tell me if I'm doing something wrong Terran win/loss vs other races: (2632 + 2094 : 2311 + 2313) = 4726 : 4624And yet you state... " Terran is 4726 : 4405 overall against other races" Okay. Either something is really wrong with what I've done (please enlighten me), or YGOSU adding programs are screwed up, or... your math sucks. Where did 4405 come out of?? As it stands, 4726 : 4624 seems MUCH MORE reasonable to me. I haven't read any of the rest of your argument but if I see something equally questionable I'll ask it here. EDIT 1: Why do you CONSTANTLY state that TvT is the most played MU? How does that affect anything? It merely shows that Terran is the singular most popular race, completely unsurprising since Boxer is the leading figure in SC. In fact, I think that answers MORE questions that degrade your argument: since Terran is more popular, it naturally affects more "skilled players" as per the rules of proportion, and when those "skilled players" become progamers, more of them end up being Terrans (proportionally speaking vs Zerg & Toss). As a result, it makes perfect sense that TvT always remains the most popular MU, and I don't understand how that's supposed to help your argument. EDIT 2: So you basically proved, with your point # 4, that Zergs have been dominating over Terrans (and Toss) in the individual leagues as per the timescale that you chose. Doesn't that single point disprove your entire argument? Let's assume Terran WAS imba (Proof by contradiction). Then how can it not show in a huge part of the proscene (individual leagues)?? And not only does it not show, Zergs were extremely dominant according to your stats. If you assumption was correct, then the imba trend should manifest itself in what we consider to be literally HALF (or greater, to some people) of Professional Starcraft, and Zerg shouldn't have been SO dominant. EDIT 3: I have a key concern with your "methodology". You say Terrans have been more "dominant/imba" simply due to a difference in win differential; Terrans have positive wins, while the others might have negative, etc. However, this methodology is, to me, clearly faulty in some cases. Let's look at your Point # 1 (after we fix your ridiculously-well-placed math error). As stated in EDIT 1, Terrans make up a larger proportion of gamers (due to popularity, or whatever). Using laws of probability, their difference in wins/losses SHOULD be larger than the difference of other races; the PERCENT PROBABILITY should remain the same/constant. Let's see: Win/loss difference for Terrans: 102 Win/loss difference for Zergs: 89 Let's take the number of TvT's & ZvZ's: (1883 & 1777) as an estimate test proportion number for the number of Terrans/Zergs. 102/1883 = 0.054. 89/1777 = 0.05. That means if we assume a test population of equal numbers of T & Z (say, 1000 each), that means the win differential for Terrans should be 54, and the one for Zergs should be 50. That's like... nothing. Barely any difference. How is that supposed to help your point? The only thing I get from seeing your stats is that... wow... Protoss is getting raped by Zergs...
1) Like I mentioned before, YGOSU lists more zerg progamers than terran. The overall number of progamers for each race is roughly the same. The number of progamers on the Proleague roster today for zerg and terran are almost exactly the same. This can only mean that more terran players on being sent to represent his team, despite the overall pool of players being roughly the same.
2) I already mentioned what I believe to be the reasons for the difference in statistics in the individual leagues, compared to the progaming scene overall. While the scene greatly relies upon the existence of the individual leagues for its prestige, I believe that the nature of the individual league (already mentioned), hardly makes the statistics derived from it the representative of the entire scene.
3) I was mistaken with many of my points due to the error, but my point still stands. Terrans, I believe still have the highest winning percentage overall. The difference was substantially less than what was proposed before, but it still helps my point that in the post-Savior era, terrans have been more dominating as a race than zerg.
|
Forever silver medalist Stork (WCG 2007 Korea 2nd, WCG 2008 Korea 2nd, WCG 2008 2nd, WCG 2009 Korea 2nd, WCG 2009 2nd) has ended his streak .
PJ out of WCG China, Stork out of WCG Korea.
Hopefully Bisu will qualify. Or else LX will probably be the best toss this tourny.
|
Effort is going to rape Pure.
(on his way to LA?)
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT![[image loading]](http://www.marshalls-art.com/images/ipaleo/paleopg15/triceratops.jpg)
