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On August 12 2010 17:16 TwoToneTerran wrote:Show nested quote +On August 12 2010 17:08 Letmelose wrote:On August 12 2010 17:00 TwoToneTerran wrote:On August 12 2010 16:50 Letmelose wrote:On August 12 2010 16:40 TwoToneTerran wrote:On August 12 2010 16:34 Letmelose wrote:On August 12 2010 16:33 TwoToneTerran wrote:
It just goes to show how well zergs operate in crunchtime, as well. Despite having the lowest average of success in tournaments, they win more titles. Atleast in the current era. If you go back to like 2001 or something then it's just nada and boxer taking all the points. :> The power of Jaedong. Not entirely! This is MSL, Jaedong only won twice. He's actually behind Bisu in that regard. It's just zerg has some secondary players who were capable of taking home gold in Calm/Luxury. Terran has an even spread with Mind/Flash/ForGG. Expect the OSL to be much more one sided. :o If I remember correctly. Ro16, Offlines, Offlines, 1st place, 2nd place, Ro16, Ro32, Ro4, 1st place, 2nd place. Jaedong has 85 points according to your system 1st place, 1st place, 2nd place, Ro32, Ro32, 1st place, Ro32, Ro8, Ro32, Ro32 Bisu has 85 points according to your system. They're even, but zerg has faced harder times overall. Can you name ANY other player that reached two finals in a row, while being the only representative of his race in the round of eight both times? No but that's kind of a silly and arbitrary way to state that Jaedong's great. We all know Jaedong's great, why are you being a jerk and shoving it down my throat when I'm just doing this out of the kindness of my morbidly curious heart? :> waaaah Zergs have it rough they've only won more titles than everyone in the modern era. :p Making the OSL post as we speak. Take Jaedong away, and the entire statistics will be changed for his race than any other player out there in the modern era. That was the point I was trying to make. Don't pretend otherwise, terrans have always been the dominating race in Starcraft ever since the 1.08 patch, and is least affected even if you take away the player of the highest score within the race. Jaedong just happens to be awesome enough to keep the zerg race even statistically. Keep in mind that OSL has an Ro36 format instead of the Ro32 format of the MSL when you make the statistic. holy crap you are a broken record. You just stated that Bisu had the same impact in the overall scheme of things with my little rating system. Why are you saying I'm pretending Jaedong isn't great? You keep shoving words down my throat in defense of Jaedong, I've never said anything bad about Jaedong. You are really mad at something and it shouldn't be me, so I suggest you leave me be. The statistic will scale fine, by the way. I start with the group stages which are the tournament proper. OSL pre Ro16 is a big changing mess each season anyway, especially with the match fixing scandal and ACE recruitment and blaaaah.
Why can't you deal with your own stastics being thrown at your face? Zergs have not been dominating the post-Savior era, and if it appears to be so, it's the power of Jaedong. What part of the total number of points being relied upon one player more so than any other race don't you get?
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On August 12 2010 17:21 JohnColtrane wrote:
so, you counted players twice? like say, jaedong gets into the round of 16, youll give him points for both r32 and r16? (and further on in the tournament too)
and clubday lol. good times
Yeah, if they advance further they earn more points. It's kind of like the kespa rank in that sense. :D
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On August 12 2010 17:29 Letmelose wrote:Show nested quote +On August 12 2010 17:16 TwoToneTerran wrote:On August 12 2010 17:08 Letmelose wrote:On August 12 2010 17:00 TwoToneTerran wrote:On August 12 2010 16:50 Letmelose wrote:On August 12 2010 16:40 TwoToneTerran wrote:On August 12 2010 16:34 Letmelose wrote:On August 12 2010 16:33 TwoToneTerran wrote:
It just goes to show how well zergs operate in crunchtime, as well. Despite having the lowest average of success in tournaments, they win more titles. Atleast in the current era. If you go back to like 2001 or something then it's just nada and boxer taking all the points. :> The power of Jaedong. Not entirely! This is MSL, Jaedong only won twice. He's actually behind Bisu in that regard. It's just zerg has some secondary players who were capable of taking home gold in Calm/Luxury. Terran has an even spread with Mind/Flash/ForGG. Expect the OSL to be much more one sided. :o If I remember correctly. Ro16, Offlines, Offlines, 1st place, 2nd place, Ro16, Ro32, Ro4, 1st place, 2nd place. Jaedong has 85 points according to your system 1st place, 1st place, 2nd place, Ro32, Ro32, 1st place, Ro32, Ro8, Ro32, Ro32 Bisu has 85 points according to your system. They're even, but zerg has faced harder times overall. Can you name ANY other player that reached two finals in a row, while being the only representative of his race in the round of eight both times? No but that's kind of a silly and arbitrary way to state that Jaedong's great. We all know Jaedong's great, why are you being a jerk and shoving it down my throat when I'm just doing this out of the kindness of my morbidly curious heart? :> waaaah Zergs have it rough they've only won more titles than everyone in the modern era. :p Making the OSL post as we speak. Take Jaedong away, and the entire statistics will be changed for his race than any other player out there in the modern era. That was the point I was trying to make. Don't pretend otherwise, terrans have always been the dominating race in Starcraft ever since the 1.08 patch, and is least affected even if you take away the player of the highest score within the race. Jaedong just happens to be awesome enough to keep the zerg race even statistically. Keep in mind that OSL has an Ro36 format instead of the Ro32 format of the MSL when you make the statistic. holy crap you are a broken record. You just stated that Bisu had the same impact in the overall scheme of things with my little rating system. Why are you saying I'm pretending Jaedong isn't great? You keep shoving words down my throat in defense of Jaedong, I've never said anything bad about Jaedong. You are really mad at something and it shouldn't be me, so I suggest you leave me be. The statistic will scale fine, by the way. I start with the group stages which are the tournament proper. OSL pre Ro16 is a big changing mess each season anyway, especially with the match fixing scandal and ACE recruitment and blaaaah. Why can't you deal with your own stastics being thrown at your face? Zergs have not been dominating the post-Savior era, and if it appears to be so, it's the power of Jaedong. What part of the total number of points being relied upon one player more so than any other race don't you get?
Haha you're gonna fucking love the OSL stats
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On August 12 2010 17:29 TwoToneTerran wrote:Show nested quote +On August 12 2010 17:21 JohnColtrane wrote:
so, you counted players twice? like say, jaedong gets into the round of 16, youll give him points for both r32 and r16? (and further on in the tournament too)
and clubday lol. good times Yeah, if they advance further they earn more points. It's kind of like the kespa rank in that sense. :D
hmmm
i wonder how much the statistics would change if you just counted each player once
and no im far too lazy to do it 
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On August 12 2010 17:30 TwoToneTerran wrote:Show nested quote +On August 12 2010 17:29 Letmelose wrote:On August 12 2010 17:16 TwoToneTerran wrote:On August 12 2010 17:08 Letmelose wrote:On August 12 2010 17:00 TwoToneTerran wrote:On August 12 2010 16:50 Letmelose wrote:On August 12 2010 16:40 TwoToneTerran wrote:On August 12 2010 16:34 Letmelose wrote:On August 12 2010 16:33 TwoToneTerran wrote:
It just goes to show how well zergs operate in crunchtime, as well. Despite having the lowest average of success in tournaments, they win more titles. Atleast in the current era. If you go back to like 2001 or something then it's just nada and boxer taking all the points. :> The power of Jaedong. Not entirely! This is MSL, Jaedong only won twice. He's actually behind Bisu in that regard. It's just zerg has some secondary players who were capable of taking home gold in Calm/Luxury. Terran has an even spread with Mind/Flash/ForGG. Expect the OSL to be much more one sided. :o If I remember correctly. Ro16, Offlines, Offlines, 1st place, 2nd place, Ro16, Ro32, Ro4, 1st place, 2nd place. Jaedong has 85 points according to your system 1st place, 1st place, 2nd place, Ro32, Ro32, 1st place, Ro32, Ro8, Ro32, Ro32 Bisu has 85 points according to your system. They're even, but zerg has faced harder times overall. Can you name ANY other player that reached two finals in a row, while being the only representative of his race in the round of eight both times? No but that's kind of a silly and arbitrary way to state that Jaedong's great. We all know Jaedong's great, why are you being a jerk and shoving it down my throat when I'm just doing this out of the kindness of my morbidly curious heart? :> waaaah Zergs have it rough they've only won more titles than everyone in the modern era. :p Making the OSL post as we speak. Take Jaedong away, and the entire statistics will be changed for his race than any other player out there in the modern era. That was the point I was trying to make. Don't pretend otherwise, terrans have always been the dominating race in Starcraft ever since the 1.08 patch, and is least affected even if you take away the player of the highest score within the race. Jaedong just happens to be awesome enough to keep the zerg race even statistically. Keep in mind that OSL has an Ro36 format instead of the Ro32 format of the MSL when you make the statistic. holy crap you are a broken record. You just stated that Bisu had the same impact in the overall scheme of things with my little rating system. Why are you saying I'm pretending Jaedong isn't great? You keep shoving words down my throat in defense of Jaedong, I've never said anything bad about Jaedong. You are really mad at something and it shouldn't be me, so I suggest you leave me be. The statistic will scale fine, by the way. I start with the group stages which are the tournament proper. OSL pre Ro16 is a big changing mess each season anyway, especially with the match fixing scandal and ACE recruitment and blaaaah. Why can't you deal with your own stastics being thrown at your face? Zergs have not been dominating the post-Savior era, and if it appears to be so, it's the power of Jaedong. What part of the total number of points being relied upon one player more so than any other race don't you get? Haha you're gonna fucking love the OSL stats
Haven't seen it, but I guess Jaedong's great success in it, coupled with the lack of success from protoss have made your argument that zergs have wiped the floor with everybody in recent years more convincing?
It's not just the individual leagues I'm talking about here. Check the Proleague stastics, check out the number of terran players overall, be it top ranked Kespa players, or simply in the Proleague rosters. Wipe that. Just take all the televised games in recent years and see which race has won the most. I haven't checked any of these, but I'm pretty sure most of it will have terran in front of the other two races.
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ALRIGHT, so, to make the format as equivalent to the MSL one I already did, I am doing the OSL thusly:
The Ro16 group stage will be 1 point, the Ro8 elimination stage 2 points, Ro4 will be 4, Ro2 will be 8, and winner will be 10. While this won't point for point add up with the MSL, everything is scaled down to exactly 50% of it to make up for the group stages happening with exactly half the number. This is about averages betwixt the two, not pure point value. If you're a real stickler you can just double everything I put down and go back and add the really weird Ro36's and wildcards and blegh it DOESN'T SCALE WELL I TRIED. =(
We'll be starting with Shinhan3 since it's like a week before Savior's fall so it'd be disingenuous not to include the OSL of the same season!
Shinhan 3 OSL:
Ro16: 6 zerg, 1 protoss, 9 terran
Ro8: 3 zerg, 1 protoss(you own Much), 4 terran
Ro4: 1 zerg, 3 terran
Ro2: 1 zerg, 1 terran
W: 1 zerg
Overall:
Zerg: 34
Protoss: 3
Terran: 37
Daum OSL:
Ro16: 3 zerg, 3 protoss, 10 terran
Ro8: 2 zerg, 3 protoss, 3 terran (get owned terrans)
Ro4: 1 zerg, 1 protoss, 2 terran
Ro2: 1 zerg, 1 terran
W: 1 Zerg
Overall:
Zerg: 29
Protoss: 13
Terran: 32
Ever OSL 2007
Ro16, 4 zerg, 3 protoss, 9 terran
Ro8: 2 zerg, 2 protoss, 4 terrans
Ro4: 1 zerg, 2 protoss, 1 terran
Ro2: 1 zerg, 1 protoss
W: 1 zerg
Overall:
Zerg: 30
Protoss: 23
Terran: 21
Bacchus OSL 2008:
Ro16: 6 zerg, 6 protoss, 4 terran
Ro8: 2 zerg, 4 protoss, 2 terran
Ro4: 1 zerg, 2 protoss, 1 terran
Ro2: 1 protoss, 1 terran
W: 1 terran
Overall:
Zerg: 14
Protoss: 30
Terran: 30 (flaaaash <3)
Ever OSL 2008:
Ro16: 5 zergs, 7 protoss, 4 terrans
Ro8: 2 zergs, 5 protoss, 1 terran
Ro4: 2 zergs, 2 protoss
Ro2: 1 zerg, 1 protoss
W: 1 zerg
Overall:
Zerg: 35
Protoss: 33
Terran: 6
Incruit OSL:
Ro16: 4 zergs, 6 protoss, 6 terrans
Ro8: 1 zerg, 3 protoss, 4 terrans
Ro4: 1 zerg, 2 protoss, 1 terran
Ro2: 1 protoss, 1 terran
W: 1 protoss
Overall:
Zerg: 10
Protoss: 38
Terran: 26
Batoo OSL:
Ro16: 6 zergs, 5 protoss, 5 terrans
Ro8: 3 zerg, 3 protoss, 2 terran
Ro4: 2 zerg, 1 protoss, 1 terran
Ro2: 1 zerg, 1 terran
W: 1 zerg
Overall:
Zerg: 38
Protoss: 15
Terran: 21
Bacchus OSL 2009:
Ro16: 7 zergs, 3 protoss, 6 terrans
Ro8: 4 zerg, 4 terrans (oh god the protossanity)
Ro4: 3 zergs, 1 terran
Ro2: 2 zergs
W: 1 zerg
Overall:
Zerg: 53
Protoss: 3
Terran: 18
Ever OSL 2009:
Ro16: 8 zergs, 4 protoss, 4 terran
Ro8: 4 zergs, 3 protoss, 1 terran
Ro4: 2 zergs, 1 protoss, 1 terran
Ro2 1 protoss, 1 terran
W: 1 terran
Overall:
Zerg: 24
Protoss: 22
Terran: 28
Korean Air OSL 1, 2010:
Ro16: 6 zerg, 4 protoss, 6 terran
Ro8: 2 zerg, 3 protoss, 3 terran
Ro4: 1 zerg, 2 protoss, 1 terran
Ro2: 1 zerg, 1 terran
W: 1 zerg (aaaauuuugh it hurts to type)
Overall:
Zerg: 32
Protoss: 18
Terran: 24
So, tally that all together and you get
Zerg: 299
Protoss: 198
Terran: 243
Zerg comse out ahead! Even despite the MASSIVELY lowered margin of points (740 as opposed to 1776), The difference between #1 and #2 is 56, even higher between the differential between #1 and #3 in the MSL! Zerg has completely dominated the OSL in place of a horribly lackluster Protoss. If you took all the extra points zerg had over terran and added them to protoss, then things would be fairly even. Poor toss, very dominant zerg.
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On August 12 2010 17:37 Letmelose wrote:Show nested quote +On August 12 2010 17:30 TwoToneTerran wrote:On August 12 2010 17:29 Letmelose wrote:On August 12 2010 17:16 TwoToneTerran wrote:On August 12 2010 17:08 Letmelose wrote:On August 12 2010 17:00 TwoToneTerran wrote:On August 12 2010 16:50 Letmelose wrote:On August 12 2010 16:40 TwoToneTerran wrote:On August 12 2010 16:34 Letmelose wrote:On August 12 2010 16:33 TwoToneTerran wrote:
It just goes to show how well zergs operate in crunchtime, as well. Despite having the lowest average of success in tournaments, they win more titles. Atleast in the current era. If you go back to like 2001 or something then it's just nada and boxer taking all the points. :> The power of Jaedong. Not entirely! This is MSL, Jaedong only won twice. He's actually behind Bisu in that regard. It's just zerg has some secondary players who were capable of taking home gold in Calm/Luxury. Terran has an even spread with Mind/Flash/ForGG. Expect the OSL to be much more one sided. :o If I remember correctly. Ro16, Offlines, Offlines, 1st place, 2nd place, Ro16, Ro32, Ro4, 1st place, 2nd place. Jaedong has 85 points according to your system 1st place, 1st place, 2nd place, Ro32, Ro32, 1st place, Ro32, Ro8, Ro32, Ro32 Bisu has 85 points according to your system. They're even, but zerg has faced harder times overall. Can you name ANY other player that reached two finals in a row, while being the only representative of his race in the round of eight both times? No but that's kind of a silly and arbitrary way to state that Jaedong's great. We all know Jaedong's great, why are you being a jerk and shoving it down my throat when I'm just doing this out of the kindness of my morbidly curious heart? :> waaaah Zergs have it rough they've only won more titles than everyone in the modern era. :p Making the OSL post as we speak. Take Jaedong away, and the entire statistics will be changed for his race than any other player out there in the modern era. That was the point I was trying to make. Don't pretend otherwise, terrans have always been the dominating race in Starcraft ever since the 1.08 patch, and is least affected even if you take away the player of the highest score within the race. Jaedong just happens to be awesome enough to keep the zerg race even statistically. Keep in mind that OSL has an Ro36 format instead of the Ro32 format of the MSL when you make the statistic. holy crap you are a broken record. You just stated that Bisu had the same impact in the overall scheme of things with my little rating system. Why are you saying I'm pretending Jaedong isn't great? You keep shoving words down my throat in defense of Jaedong, I've never said anything bad about Jaedong. You are really mad at something and it shouldn't be me, so I suggest you leave me be. The statistic will scale fine, by the way. I start with the group stages which are the tournament proper. OSL pre Ro16 is a big changing mess each season anyway, especially with the match fixing scandal and ACE recruitment and blaaaah. Why can't you deal with your own stastics being thrown at your face? Zergs have not been dominating the post-Savior era, and if it appears to be so, it's the power of Jaedong. What part of the total number of points being relied upon one player more so than any other race don't you get? Haha you're gonna fucking love the OSL stats Haven't seen it, but I guess Jaedong's great success in it, coupled with the lack of success from protoss have made your argument that zergs have wiped the floor with everybody in recent years more convincing? It's not just the individual leagues I'm talking about here. Check the Proleague stastics, check out the number of terran players overall, be it top ranked Kespa players, or simply in the Proleague rosters. Wipe that. Just take all the televised games in recent years and see which race has won the most. I haven't checked any of these, but I'm pretty sure most of it will have terran in front of the other two races.
Holy shit shut the fuck up, this isn't even an argument. I have said countless times Jaedong is a great, if not greatest player ever. Stop trying to rub your goddamn bias in my face. This little project of mine has nothing to do with my bias, it's just me throwing together a metric and plotting some goddamn trends. I don't care which race has it better -- there was an argument in the thread over it so I went "Oh hey you know what would make this argument easier to settle? Some nice numbers!" entirely free of my bias. I didn't cheese any numbers, and I don't support one race over the other. You have this imaginary notion that Jaedong is carrying the zerg race all by himself, despite Savior, GGplay, Luxury, Calm, July and Effort all taking titles in these statistics of mine, not to mention the many zergs who put up good showings in tournaments despite falling short like Kwanro and Yarnc.
What I'm saying is go away you dumb fanboy god. You look a gift horse in the mouth and then do your best to brand its tongue.
User was warned for this post
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On August 12 2010 17:40 TwoToneTerran wrote:Show nested quote +On August 12 2010 17:37 Letmelose wrote:On August 12 2010 17:30 TwoToneTerran wrote:On August 12 2010 17:29 Letmelose wrote:On August 12 2010 17:16 TwoToneTerran wrote:On August 12 2010 17:08 Letmelose wrote:On August 12 2010 17:00 TwoToneTerran wrote:On August 12 2010 16:50 Letmelose wrote:On August 12 2010 16:40 TwoToneTerran wrote:On August 12 2010 16:34 Letmelose wrote:
[quote]
The power of Jaedong. Not entirely! This is MSL, Jaedong only won twice. He's actually behind Bisu in that regard. It's just zerg has some secondary players who were capable of taking home gold in Calm/Luxury. Terran has an even spread with Mind/Flash/ForGG. Expect the OSL to be much more one sided. :o If I remember correctly. Ro16, Offlines, Offlines, 1st place, 2nd place, Ro16, Ro32, Ro4, 1st place, 2nd place. Jaedong has 85 points according to your system 1st place, 1st place, 2nd place, Ro32, Ro32, 1st place, Ro32, Ro8, Ro32, Ro32 Bisu has 85 points according to your system. They're even, but zerg has faced harder times overall. Can you name ANY other player that reached two finals in a row, while being the only representative of his race in the round of eight both times? No but that's kind of a silly and arbitrary way to state that Jaedong's great. We all know Jaedong's great, why are you being a jerk and shoving it down my throat when I'm just doing this out of the kindness of my morbidly curious heart? :> waaaah Zergs have it rough they've only won more titles than everyone in the modern era. :p Making the OSL post as we speak. Take Jaedong away, and the entire statistics will be changed for his race than any other player out there in the modern era. That was the point I was trying to make. Don't pretend otherwise, terrans have always been the dominating race in Starcraft ever since the 1.08 patch, and is least affected even if you take away the player of the highest score within the race. Jaedong just happens to be awesome enough to keep the zerg race even statistically. Keep in mind that OSL has an Ro36 format instead of the Ro32 format of the MSL when you make the statistic. holy crap you are a broken record. You just stated that Bisu had the same impact in the overall scheme of things with my little rating system. Why are you saying I'm pretending Jaedong isn't great? You keep shoving words down my throat in defense of Jaedong, I've never said anything bad about Jaedong. You are really mad at something and it shouldn't be me, so I suggest you leave me be. The statistic will scale fine, by the way. I start with the group stages which are the tournament proper. OSL pre Ro16 is a big changing mess each season anyway, especially with the match fixing scandal and ACE recruitment and blaaaah. Why can't you deal with your own stastics being thrown at your face? Zergs have not been dominating the post-Savior era, and if it appears to be so, it's the power of Jaedong. What part of the total number of points being relied upon one player more so than any other race don't you get? Haha you're gonna fucking love the OSL stats Haven't seen it, but I guess Jaedong's great success in it, coupled with the lack of success from protoss have made your argument that zergs have wiped the floor with everybody in recent years more convincing? It's not just the individual leagues I'm talking about here. Check the Proleague stastics, check out the number of terran players overall, be it top ranked Kespa players, or simply in the Proleague rosters. Wipe that. Just take all the televised games in recent years and see which race has won the most. I haven't checked any of these, but I'm pretty sure most of it will have terran in front of the other two races. Holy shit shut the fuck up, this isn't even an argument. I have said countless times Jaedong is a great, if not greatest player ever. Stop trying to rub your goddamn bias in my face. This little project of mine has nothing to do with my bias, it's just me throwing together a metric and plotting some goddamn trends. I don't care which race has it better -- there was an argument in the thread over it so I went "Oh hey you know what would make this argument easier to settle? Some nice numbers!" entirely free of my bias. I didn't cheese any numbers, and I don't support one race over the other. What I'm saying is go away you dumb fanboy god.
I'm sorry that you can't deal with facts. If I could be bothered to look up the numbers, there would be so many ways to proving that terrans are the most dominating race overall. It's just that zergs have caught up a lot in recent years. If this frustrates you, then I'll leave you alone.
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This 'modern era' business is just picking statistics to fit your argument. The fact still stands terran has won the most titles overall of any race in the history of the SC leagues. It seems very convenient to me to just ignore the first five years or so of competition. I agree that protoss has had the worst run.
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On August 12 2010 17:47 Letmelose wrote:Show nested quote +On August 12 2010 17:40 TwoToneTerran wrote:On August 12 2010 17:37 Letmelose wrote:On August 12 2010 17:30 TwoToneTerran wrote:On August 12 2010 17:29 Letmelose wrote:On August 12 2010 17:16 TwoToneTerran wrote:On August 12 2010 17:08 Letmelose wrote:On August 12 2010 17:00 TwoToneTerran wrote:On August 12 2010 16:50 Letmelose wrote:On August 12 2010 16:40 TwoToneTerran wrote:
[quote]
Not entirely! This is MSL, Jaedong only won twice. He's actually behind Bisu in that regard. It's just zerg has some secondary players who were capable of taking home gold in Calm/Luxury. Terran has an even spread with Mind/Flash/ForGG.
Expect the OSL to be much more one sided. :o If I remember correctly. Ro16, Offlines, Offlines, 1st place, 2nd place, Ro16, Ro32, Ro4, 1st place, 2nd place. Jaedong has 85 points according to your system 1st place, 1st place, 2nd place, Ro32, Ro32, 1st place, Ro32, Ro8, Ro32, Ro32 Bisu has 85 points according to your system. They're even, but zerg has faced harder times overall. Can you name ANY other player that reached two finals in a row, while being the only representative of his race in the round of eight both times? No but that's kind of a silly and arbitrary way to state that Jaedong's great. We all know Jaedong's great, why are you being a jerk and shoving it down my throat when I'm just doing this out of the kindness of my morbidly curious heart? :> waaaah Zergs have it rough they've only won more titles than everyone in the modern era. :p Making the OSL post as we speak. Take Jaedong away, and the entire statistics will be changed for his race than any other player out there in the modern era. That was the point I was trying to make. Don't pretend otherwise, terrans have always been the dominating race in Starcraft ever since the 1.08 patch, and is least affected even if you take away the player of the highest score within the race. Jaedong just happens to be awesome enough to keep the zerg race even statistically. Keep in mind that OSL has an Ro36 format instead of the Ro32 format of the MSL when you make the statistic. holy crap you are a broken record. You just stated that Bisu had the same impact in the overall scheme of things with my little rating system. Why are you saying I'm pretending Jaedong isn't great? You keep shoving words down my throat in defense of Jaedong, I've never said anything bad about Jaedong. You are really mad at something and it shouldn't be me, so I suggest you leave me be. The statistic will scale fine, by the way. I start with the group stages which are the tournament proper. OSL pre Ro16 is a big changing mess each season anyway, especially with the match fixing scandal and ACE recruitment and blaaaah. Why can't you deal with your own stastics being thrown at your face? Zergs have not been dominating the post-Savior era, and if it appears to be so, it's the power of Jaedong. What part of the total number of points being relied upon one player more so than any other race don't you get? Haha you're gonna fucking love the OSL stats Haven't seen it, but I guess Jaedong's great success in it, coupled with the lack of success from protoss have made your argument that zergs have wiped the floor with everybody in recent years more convincing? It's not just the individual leagues I'm talking about here. Check the Proleague stastics, check out the number of terran players overall, be it top ranked Kespa players, or simply in the Proleague rosters. Wipe that. Just take all the televised games in recent years and see which race has won the most. I haven't checked any of these, but I'm pretty sure most of it will have terran in front of the other two races. Holy shit shut the fuck up, this isn't even an argument. I have said countless times Jaedong is a great, if not greatest player ever. Stop trying to rub your goddamn bias in my face. This little project of mine has nothing to do with my bias, it's just me throwing together a metric and plotting some goddamn trends. I don't care which race has it better -- there was an argument in the thread over it so I went "Oh hey you know what would make this argument easier to settle? Some nice numbers!" entirely free of my bias. I didn't cheese any numbers, and I don't support one race over the other. What I'm saying is go away you dumb fanboy god. I'm sorry that you can't deal with facts. If I could be bothered to look up the numbers, there would be so many ways to proving that terrans are the most dominating race overall. It's just that zergs have caught up a lot in recent years. If this frustrates you, then I'll leave you alone.
Haha "If I could be bothered to back up my opinion that you don't disagree with." You are the worst kind of debater, one that doesn't even have a debate.
I'm not dumb. I know terran is the most dominant race over the history of BW. They're the most consistent overall even after the fall of Savior (Taking #2 in OSL and #1 in MSL, whereas Zerg is #3 in MSL and #1 in OSL. Protoss is, sadly, #2 MSL and #3 OSL). For some reason you pictured this imaginary argument I made up where I said Jaedong hasn't carried a great load for Zerg, when all I was saying was that zerg had multiple champions in spite of also having Jaedong in the MSL, like Lux and Calm.
I just honestly don't get what you're arguing with me about, but you're doing it in the most snide, obnoxious way and it's all in spite of me doing this really nice and I think interesting thing out of my own free time.
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On August 12 2010 17:49 tomatriedes wrote:
This 'modern era' business is just picking statistics to fit your argument. The fact still stands terran has won the most titles overall of any race in the history of the SC leagues. It seems very convenient to me to just ignore the first five years or so of competition. I agree that protoss has had the worst run.
If you can't see Savior's loss to Bisu in the MSL as a paradigm shift in BW then you're really lost on the history of it all.
OF COURSE Terran is the most dominant. Oov/Nada assured that.
edit -- urgggh I am spending way too much time defending myself from people getting all mad over my little fact dumps. I'm just gonna drop it because I'm apparently a big ol statistics skewing Jaedong hating jerk or something I don't know.
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Thanks for putting that data together TwoTone. There you have it folks, zerg imba, lay off the terran hate.
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On August 12 2010 18:08 moopie wrote:
Thanks for putting that data together TwoTone. There you have it folks, zerg imba, lay off the terran hate.
What? His statistics didn't prove that at all. Let me reiterate for the slow here- terran have won the most titles of any race overall. You can pick out sections where the other races have done well but overall the truth still stands.
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On August 12 2010 17:53 TwoToneTerran wrote:Show nested quote +On August 12 2010 17:49 tomatriedes wrote:
This 'modern era' business is just picking statistics to fit your argument. The fact still stands terran has won the most titles overall of any race in the history of the SC leagues. It seems very convenient to me to just ignore the first five years or so of competition. I agree that protoss has had the worst run. If you can't see Savior's loss to Bisu in the MSL as a paradigm shift in BW then you're really lost on the history of it all. OF COURSE Terran is the most dominant. Oov/Nada assured that. edit -- urgggh I am spending way too much time defending myself from people getting all mad over my little fact dumps. I'm just gonna drop it because I'm apparently a big ol statistics skewing Jaedong hating jerk or something I don't know.
I'm not getting mad and I don't think you're a 'Jaedong hating jerk' but I think we have to look at statistics overall if you want to make arguments about which is the most powerful race. If you leave out certain years you can prove anything.
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On August 12 2010 19:21 tomatriedes wrote:Show nested quote +On August 12 2010 18:08 moopie wrote:
Thanks for putting that data together TwoTone. There you have it folks, zerg imba, lay off the terran hate. What? His statistics didn't prove that at all. Let me reiterate for the slow here- terran have won the most titles of any race overall. You can pick out sections where the other races have done well but overall the truth still stands.
While I appreciate being called slow, that was sarcasm...
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On August 12 2010 19:24 tomatriedes wrote:Show nested quote +On August 12 2010 17:53 TwoToneTerran wrote:On August 12 2010 17:49 tomatriedes wrote:
This 'modern era' business is just picking statistics to fit your argument. The fact still stands terran has won the most titles overall of any race in the history of the SC leagues. It seems very convenient to me to just ignore the first five years or so of competition. I agree that protoss has had the worst run. If you can't see Savior's loss to Bisu in the MSL as a paradigm shift in BW then you're really lost on the history of it all. OF COURSE Terran is the most dominant. Oov/Nada assured that. edit -- urgggh I am spending way too much time defending myself from people getting all mad over my little fact dumps. I'm just gonna drop it because I'm apparently a big ol statistics skewing Jaedong hating jerk or something I don't know. I'm not getting mad and I don't think you're a 'Jaedong hating jerk' but I think we have to look at statistics overall if you want to make arguments about which is the most powerful race. If you leave out certain years you can prove anything.
I didn't leave out "certain years" for the sake of saying Terran isn't dominant. I counted years where the MSL and OSL were won or greatly affected by players who are relevant, nay, dominant today. I could've counted all of Savior's MSLs if I was trying to make a case against terran. The date at which I set my stats on makes sense in its relevance to current progaming and you're out of your rocker if you think what I did was particularly arbitrary.
ugh I don't know why I argue with people who have quotes like yours in their sigs. They basically just pick a hate campaign to rally behind and disregard anything other people say so they can just thoughtlessly regurgitate soundbites.
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On August 12 2010 20:02 TwoToneTerran wrote:Show nested quote +On August 12 2010 19:24 tomatriedes wrote:On August 12 2010 17:53 TwoToneTerran wrote:On August 12 2010 17:49 tomatriedes wrote:
This 'modern era' business is just picking statistics to fit your argument. The fact still stands terran has won the most titles overall of any race in the history of the SC leagues. It seems very convenient to me to just ignore the first five years or so of competition. I agree that protoss has had the worst run. If you can't see Savior's loss to Bisu in the MSL as a paradigm shift in BW then you're really lost on the history of it all. OF COURSE Terran is the most dominant. Oov/Nada assured that. edit -- urgggh I am spending way too much time defending myself from people getting all mad over my little fact dumps. I'm just gonna drop it because I'm apparently a big ol statistics skewing Jaedong hating jerk or something I don't know. I'm not getting mad and I don't think you're a 'Jaedong hating jerk' but I think we have to look at statistics overall if you want to make arguments about which is the most powerful race. If you leave out certain years you can prove anything. I didn't leave out "certain years" for the sake of saying Terran isn't dominant. I counted years where the MSL and OSL were won or greatly affected by players who are relevant, nay, dominant today. I could've counted all of Savior's MSLs if I was trying to make a case against terran. The date at which I set my stats on makes sense in its relevance to current progaming and you're out of your rocker if you think what I did was particularly arbitrary. ugh I don't know why I argue with people who have quotes like yours in their sigs. They basically just pick a hate campaign to rally behind and disregard anything other people say so they can just thoughtlessly regurgitate soundbites.
Overall terran is still the most dominant race.
Edit-
OSL
Medals won per Race
As of May, 2010, there have been:
Race 1st 2nd
Terran 12 10
Zerg 9 11
Protoss 8 8
MSL
Medals Won per Race
As of May, 2010, there have been:
Race 1st 2nd
Terran 10 4
Zerg 9 10
Protoss 4 9
Total- Terran 22 gold 14 sliver
Zerg 18 gold 21 silver
Protoss 12 gold 17 silver
Protoss really needs a buff.
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That's not even what the conversation, statistical dump, or anything has been about. You're a broken record.
edit -- so did you really not read the conversation? Someone got annoyed and said that Terran's been winning everything, then someone made a snarky post about how many finals or titles or whatever they've won. I mad a semi-serious post about how Protoss and Terran have, since the bonjwa days have ended, been massively behind zerg in titles and that it's really been dominated by zerg since Savior. Intothewow proposed an interesting idea to rate the overall success of the three races outside of just "who won a title" (literally what you're doing right now. It's the base level thought that I was doing my best to get rid of) by setting a reasonable metric for this time we had already talked about and judging the overall performance in the leagues of the races.
Basically you're a broken record who didn't bother to read the last couple pages. =\
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On August 12 2010 20:02 TwoToneTerran wrote:Show nested quote +On August 12 2010 19:24 tomatriedes wrote:On August 12 2010 17:53 TwoToneTerran wrote:On August 12 2010 17:49 tomatriedes wrote:
This 'modern era' business is just picking statistics to fit your argument. The fact still stands terran has won the most titles overall of any race in the history of the SC leagues. It seems very convenient to me to just ignore the first five years or so of competition. I agree that protoss has had the worst run. If you can't see Savior's loss to Bisu in the MSL as a paradigm shift in BW then you're really lost on the history of it all. OF COURSE Terran is the most dominant. Oov/Nada assured that. edit -- urgggh I am spending way too much time defending myself from people getting all mad over my little fact dumps. I'm just gonna drop it because I'm apparently a big ol statistics skewing Jaedong hating jerk or something I don't know. I'm not getting mad and I don't think you're a 'Jaedong hating jerk' but I think we have to look at statistics overall if you want to make arguments about which is the most powerful race. If you leave out certain years you can prove anything. I didn't leave out "certain years" for the sake of saying Terran isn't dominant. I counted years where the MSL and OSL were won or greatly affected by players who are relevant, nay, dominant today. I could've counted all of Savior's MSLs if I was trying to make a case against terran. The date at which I set my stats on makes sense in its relevance to current progaming and you're out of your rocker if you think what I did was particularly arbitrary. ugh I don't know why I argue with people who have quotes like yours in their sigs. They basically just pick a hate campaign to rally behind and disregard anything other people say so they can just thoughtlessly regurgitate soundbites.
The quote was from Sea a terran player- I actually think it's quite humorously worded. I can't understand terran fans getting angry because of a quote from a terran player.
Anyway, I understand your point if you focus on more recent years then zerg has won more titles. I just was reminding people that overall terran has won the most titles- a lot of the newer members might not even know this. There really is no argument so no need to get dramatic.
Also I'm not sure where the statistic is but I remember someone showed that overall of all the pro matches played terran has something like a 56%-44% record against zerg. Another thing worth remembering.
Edit- Ok maybe more like 54%-
# Matchup all-time records:
* TvZ: 1544-1323 (53.85%)
* ZvP: 982-855 (53.46%)
* PvT: 1120-1072 (51.09%)
These stats are from a few years ago. If anyone has more up-to-date stats I'd like to see them.
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Holy fuck stop riding TTT's ass. You two (tomato and that other guy) are like little kids out to prove your power ranger is the best one.
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EPT
