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On May 22 2010 23:09 7mk wrote:Show nested quote +On May 22 2010 23:04 matjlav wrote:On May 22 2010 22:57 7mk wrote:On May 22 2010 22:53 matjlav wrote:On May 22 2010 22:45 Jibba wrote:On May 22 2010 22:42 matjlav wrote:On May 22 2010 22:38 Scaramanga wrote:On May 22 2010 22:35 InTheFade wrote:On May 22 2010 22:28 Waxangel wrote:Elsewhere in Seoul.... ![[image loading]](http://img.dailygame.co.kr/news/200911/attachments/20091115_bc70b2862888a56da2c6b194f72b4332.jpg) Best post thus far. On May 22 2010 22:31 Scaramanga wrote:
Flash was much more deserving of the title than effort, first two games flash raped effort repeatedly for 20 minuets each, 3rd game flash made one mistake of not scouting before moving out which cost him the game and the 5th game he didnt walloff properly and it cost him the game
two mistakes and hes gayed out of a spot in history as one of the games best
two mistakes
fucking bullshit Worst post thus far. Especially when you consider how Effort also made horrible mistakes in games 1 and 2. Thats what im saying, did you actually read my post? Effort made many mistakes in game one and two compared to flash's two, how people can say effort is more deserving of a title is beyond me I doubt many people think that Effort is actually the better player, but the fact is that it's Flash's own fault that he lost. The way you said that he got "gayed out" of it and that it's "fucking bullshit" suggested that you were just blaming Effort's "gay" play. Boston's overall record is 62-33, Cleveland's is 67-26. I guess the Cavaliers are the better team! I don't follow sports, so I don't understand exactly the nuances of what you're saying, but... Flash is blatantly more skilled than EffOrt. He showed that in games 1 and 2. Now, as I said before, it's certainly Flash's fault that he lost games 3, 4, and 5; however, those were not straight up games. Game 2 especially showed that when it comes to straight up macro play, Flash is a complete monster. Effort showed that Flash's early game is weak, but that is more of a mental issue that Flash can fix quickly. The fact remains that Flash has been utterly dominating for a year, and 3 very short games are not anywhere near enough to prove that Effort is the superior player. Of course, I hate arguing over who is a "better" player because the idea of "superiority" in such a variable game is such a vague human construct, but in this case I think it's still pretty blatant. ??? Who in this thread said that effort is overall the superior player? Let me introduce you to a concept called quote tags. Quote tags are a way of referencing a previous post in a thread, while making it clear that it was another person's words, not yours. That way, people can understand what you're saying in the context of the rest of the thread! Neat! Next time you see quote tags, read what's inside them! Then, you won't have to ask unnecessary questions about why the poster said what they said. how about you stop being a fucking asshole for a moment? Which of the people you quoted says that effort is the better overall player?
Trick question! No one did, and I never said that anyone did.
Here, I'll summarize the conversation for you:
Somebody said that they did not understand how people can think that Effort deserved the title after a series of other posts saying that Flash was "gayed" out of the title.
I responded by saying that I don't think that many people consider Effort the better player, but rather Flash lost because he played in a stupid way and Effort exploited it, making Effort clearly "deserve" the title.
Someone responded to this with a sports reference (which I conceded that I may not have fully understood) that I think was basically saying that a better record does not equal a better player.
Then I posted saying that it's pretty obvious that Flash is the blatant better player.
What I was saying if you just read through the quote tags is really obvious. But yeah, I was a little caustic, sorry. It's just annoying when you write three paragraphs in response to something and someone is just like "Huh??? Really obvious question that would be easily explained if I weren't too lazy to read the whole conversation??"
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Last I checked, all games are straight up games. What, if the chess game doesn't last 10 hours it isnt a real game? Get a grip.
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Braavos36389 Posts
On May 22 2010 23:18 matjlav wrote:Show nested quote +On May 22 2010 23:09 7mk wrote:On May 22 2010 23:04 matjlav wrote:On May 22 2010 22:57 7mk wrote:On May 22 2010 22:53 matjlav wrote:On May 22 2010 22:45 Jibba wrote:On May 22 2010 22:42 matjlav wrote:On May 22 2010 22:38 Scaramanga wrote:On May 22 2010 22:35 InTheFade wrote:On May 22 2010 22:28 Waxangel wrote:Elsewhere in Seoul.... Best post thus far. On May 22 2010 22:31 Scaramanga wrote:
Flash was much more deserving of the title than effort, first two games flash raped effort repeatedly for 20 minuets each, 3rd game flash made one mistake of not scouting before moving out which cost him the game and the 5th game he didnt walloff properly and it cost him the game
two mistakes and hes gayed out of a spot in history as one of the games best
two mistakes
fucking bullshit Worst post thus far. Especially when you consider how Effort also made horrible mistakes in games 1 and 2. Thats what im saying, did you actually read my post? Effort made many mistakes in game one and two compared to flash's two, how people can say effort is more deserving of a title is beyond me I doubt many people think that Effort is actually the better player, but the fact is that it's Flash's own fault that he lost. The way you said that he got "gayed out" of it and that it's "fucking bullshit" suggested that you were just blaming Effort's "gay" play. Boston's overall record is 62-33, Cleveland's is 67-26. I guess the Cavaliers are the better team! I don't follow sports, so I don't understand exactly the nuances of what you're saying, but... Flash is blatantly more skilled than EffOrt. He showed that in games 1 and 2. Now, as I said before, it's certainly Flash's fault that he lost games 3, 4, and 5; however, those were not straight up games. Game 2 especially showed that when it comes to straight up macro play, Flash is a complete monster. Effort showed that Flash's early game is weak, but that is more of a mental issue that Flash can fix quickly. The fact remains that Flash has been utterly dominating for a year, and 3 very short games are not anywhere near enough to prove that Effort is the superior player. Of course, I hate arguing over who is a "better" player because the idea of "superiority" in such a variable game is such a vague human construct, but in this case I think it's still pretty blatant. ??? Who in this thread said that effort is overall the superior player? Let me introduce you to a concept called quote tags. Quote tags are a way of referencing a previous post in a thread, while making it clear that it was another person's words, not yours. That way, people can understand what you're saying in the context of the rest of the thread! Neat! Next time you see quote tags, read what's inside them! Then, you won't have to ask unnecessary questions about why the poster said what they said. how about you stop being a fucking asshole for a moment? Which of the people you quoted says that effort is the better overall player? Trick question! No one did. Here, I'll summarize the conversation for you: Somebody said that they did not understand how people can think that Effort deserved the title after a series of other posts saying that Flash was "gayed" out of the title. I responded by saying that I don't think that many people consider Effort the better player, but rather Flash lost because he played in a stupid way and Effort exploited it, making Effort clearly "deserve" the title. Someone responded to this with a sports reference (which I conceded that I may not have fully understood) that I think was basically saying that a better record does not equal a better player. Then I posted saying that it's pretty obvious that Flash is the blatant better player. What I was saying if you just read through the quote tags is really obvious. But yeah, I was a little caustic, sorry. It's just annoying when you write three paragraphs in response to something and someone is just like "Huh??? Really obvious question that would be easily explained if I weren't too lazy to read the whole conversation??"
As good as Flash is against P and T, he's historically been quite bad against Z in Bo3/5 series.
He's been in three finals against Zerg and lost them all.
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Woohoo Flash lost in the final without blackout.
And just because Flash might be superior macro/micro, doesn't mean that he's the better player. Starcraft is much more than that. Mind games, decision making, strategy, guts to cheese, the ability to counter-cheese, etc. Winning in a BO5 means the other player wins when all these aspects come to play. So at this moment, Effort is the superior player.
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I love how people are saying Flash played great in game 1 and 2 while completely disregarding the fact that Effort was making mistake after mistake and barely even playing properly because he was choking so hard, the guy was practically peeing his pants. Game 3 really gave him some much needed confidence, he was totally lost out there lol.
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Fuck yeah Effort i knew you would win . Now i just hope that the arrogance from Flash fans will lower to a comprehensible level . Now on to Jaedong beating Flash . I'm happy that both my #3 and #2 favourite zergs are geting a crack at Flash .
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On May 22 2010 23:18 matjlav wrote:Show nested quote +On May 22 2010 23:09 7mk wrote:On May 22 2010 23:04 matjlav wrote:On May 22 2010 22:57 7mk wrote:On May 22 2010 22:53 matjlav wrote:On May 22 2010 22:45 Jibba wrote:On May 22 2010 22:42 matjlav wrote:On May 22 2010 22:38 Scaramanga wrote:On May 22 2010 22:35 InTheFade wrote:On May 22 2010 22:28 Waxangel wrote:Elsewhere in Seoul.... Best post thus far. On May 22 2010 22:31 Scaramanga wrote:
Flash was much more deserving of the title than effort, first two games flash raped effort repeatedly for 20 minuets each, 3rd game flash made one mistake of not scouting before moving out which cost him the game and the 5th game he didnt walloff properly and it cost him the game
two mistakes and hes gayed out of a spot in history as one of the games best
two mistakes
fucking bullshit Worst post thus far. Especially when you consider how Effort also made horrible mistakes in games 1 and 2. Thats what im saying, did you actually read my post? Effort made many mistakes in game one and two compared to flash's two, how people can say effort is more deserving of a title is beyond me I doubt many people think that Effort is actually the better player, but the fact is that it's Flash's own fault that he lost. The way you said that he got "gayed out" of it and that it's "fucking bullshit" suggested that you were just blaming Effort's "gay" play. Boston's overall record is 62-33, Cleveland's is 67-26. I guess the Cavaliers are the better team! I don't follow sports, so I don't understand exactly the nuances of what you're saying, but... Flash is blatantly more skilled than EffOrt. He showed that in games 1 and 2. Now, as I said before, it's certainly Flash's fault that he lost games 3, 4, and 5; however, those were not straight up games. Game 2 especially showed that when it comes to straight up macro play, Flash is a complete monster. Effort showed that Flash's early game is weak, but that is more of a mental issue that Flash can fix quickly. The fact remains that Flash has been utterly dominating for a year, and 3 very short games are not anywhere near enough to prove that Effort is the superior player. Of course, I hate arguing over who is a "better" player because the idea of "superiority" in such a variable game is such a vague human construct, but in this case I think it's still pretty blatant. ??? Who in this thread said that effort is overall the superior player? Let me introduce you to a concept called quote tags. Quote tags are a way of referencing a previous post in a thread, while making it clear that it was another person's words, not yours. That way, people can understand what you're saying in the context of the rest of the thread! Neat! Next time you see quote tags, read what's inside them! Then, you won't have to ask unnecessary questions about why the poster said what they said. how about you stop being a fucking asshole for a moment? Which of the people you quoted says that effort is the better overall player? Trick question! No one did, and I never said that anyone did. Here, I'll summarize the conversation for you: Somebody said that they did not understand how people can think that Effort deserved the title after a series of other posts saying that Flash was "gayed" out of the title. I responded by saying that I don't think that many people consider Effort the better player, but rather Flash lost because he played in a stupid way and Effort exploited it, making Effort clearly "deserve" the title. Someone responded to this with a sports reference (which I conceded that I may not have fully understood) that I think was basically saying that a better record does not equal a better player. Then I posted saying that it's pretty obvious that Flash is the blatant better player. What I was saying if you just read through the quote tags is really obvious. But yeah, I was a little caustic, sorry. It's just annoying when you write three paragraphs in response to something and someone is just like "Huh??? Really obvious question that would be easily explained if I weren't too lazy to read the whole conversation??"
well thats my bad then but it's hard as hell to read this conversation and know who says what because the name of the poster is so far above what he actually wrote
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Braavos36389 Posts
On May 22 2010 23:21 ASAzerg wrote:
Woohoo Flash lost in the final without blackout.
And just because Flash might be superior macro/micro, doesn't mean that he's the better player. Starcraft is much more than that. Mind games, decision making, strategy, guts to cheese, the ability to counter-cheese, etc. Winning in a BO5 means the other player wins when all these aspects come to play. So at this moment, Effort is the superior player.
Additionally, over the past month and a half, Effort has been the superior player.
Flash: 24-7 (77%)
Effort: 19-6 (76%)
But of course, a win in PL and 3-2 OSL Finals. Gonna be a tough power rank to decide if JD beats Flash in the MSL Finals.
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When was the last time Flash lost three games in a row?
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Braavos36389 Posts
On May 22 2010 23:25 DarkMatter_ wrote:
When was the last time Flash lost three games in a row?
July 6-9, 2009 (Kwanro Calm Kal)
To the same player? Bisu, Jan 4-12, 2009 (2 GOM games and 1 PL)
In the same series? Jaedong, Aug 8, 2008 (GOM1 Finals)
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On May 22 2010 23:07 dukethegold wrote:Show nested quote +On May 22 2010 23:06 Grend wrote:
This just sucks.
Without Flash dominating, theres nothing interesting in this game. Everything has been done before, expect for the awesomness a double league win would have been. I think the exact opposite. Nothing is more boring than one side domination. There needs to be competition to make things interesting. I had enough of Flash sitting on the high chair, one level above the rest.
I dont get you, domination is what bring this game to the highest level. Not because I am KTFlash fan but back when Bisu, Savior, Stork, etc was owning I cheer for them as well. Also they win cuz they are straight up one level above the scrubs.
If domination dont exist, this is probably what will happen.
a) Players like Kal or Zero owning two MU but ass horrible on one. In the end isnt that just luck of the draw on who you are playing against in the tournament?
b) mediocre finals.
+ Show Spoiler +Not to take credit away from Effort but really those two got shafted. lol
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Hehe, Hot Bid is such a happy pumpkin right now.
Congratulations to Effort.
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United States11393 Posts
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On May 22 2010 23:24 Hot_Bid wrote:Show nested quote +On May 22 2010 23:21 ASAzerg wrote:
Woohoo Flash lost in the final without blackout.
And just because Flash might be superior macro/micro, doesn't mean that he's the better player. Starcraft is much more than that. Mind games, decision making, strategy, guts to cheese, the ability to counter-cheese, etc. Winning in a BO5 means the other player wins when all these aspects come to play. So at this moment, Effort is the superior player. Additionally, over the past month and a half, Effort has been the superior player.
Flash: 24-7 (77%)
Effort: 19-6 (76%)But of course, a win in PL and 3-2 OSL Finals. Gonna be a tough power rank to decide if JD beats Flash in the MSL Finals.
Am i missing something here?
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I can't believe the results. This was totally unexpected. Too bad the possibility of winning dual leagues won't happen again this season. 
Can't wait to see VODs..
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On May 22 2010 23:21 Hot_Bid wrote:Show nested quote +On May 22 2010 23:18 matjlav wrote:On May 22 2010 23:09 7mk wrote:On May 22 2010 23:04 matjlav wrote:On May 22 2010 22:57 7mk wrote:On May 22 2010 22:53 matjlav wrote:On May 22 2010 22:45 Jibba wrote:On May 22 2010 22:42 matjlav wrote:On May 22 2010 22:38 Scaramanga wrote:On May 22 2010 22:35 InTheFade wrote:
[quote]
Best post thus far.
[quote]
Worst post thus far. Especially when you consider how Effort also made horrible mistakes in games 1 and 2. Thats what im saying, did you actually read my post? Effort made many mistakes in game one and two compared to flash's two, how people can say effort is more deserving of a title is beyond me I doubt many people think that Effort is actually the better player, but the fact is that it's Flash's own fault that he lost. The way you said that he got "gayed out" of it and that it's "fucking bullshit" suggested that you were just blaming Effort's "gay" play. Boston's overall record is 62-33, Cleveland's is 67-26. I guess the Cavaliers are the better team! I don't follow sports, so I don't understand exactly the nuances of what you're saying, but... Flash is blatantly more skilled than EffOrt. He showed that in games 1 and 2. Now, as I said before, it's certainly Flash's fault that he lost games 3, 4, and 5; however, those were not straight up games. Game 2 especially showed that when it comes to straight up macro play, Flash is a complete monster. Effort showed that Flash's early game is weak, but that is more of a mental issue that Flash can fix quickly. The fact remains that Flash has been utterly dominating for a year, and 3 very short games are not anywhere near enough to prove that Effort is the superior player. Of course, I hate arguing over who is a "better" player because the idea of "superiority" in such a variable game is such a vague human construct, but in this case I think it's still pretty blatant. ??? Who in this thread said that effort is overall the superior player? Let me introduce you to a concept called quote tags. Quote tags are a way of referencing a previous post in a thread, while making it clear that it was another person's words, not yours. That way, people can understand what you're saying in the context of the rest of the thread! Neat! Next time you see quote tags, read what's inside them! Then, you won't have to ask unnecessary questions about why the poster said what they said. how about you stop being a fucking asshole for a moment? Which of the people you quoted says that effort is the better overall player? Trick question! No one did. Here, I'll summarize the conversation for you: Somebody said that they did not understand how people can think that Effort deserved the title after a series of other posts saying that Flash was "gayed" out of the title. I responded by saying that I don't think that many people consider Effort the better player, but rather Flash lost because he played in a stupid way and Effort exploited it, making Effort clearly "deserve" the title. Someone responded to this with a sports reference (which I conceded that I may not have fully understood) that I think was basically saying that a better record does not equal a better player. Then I posted saying that it's pretty obvious that Flash is the blatant better player. What I was saying if you just read through the quote tags is really obvious. But yeah, I was a little caustic, sorry. It's just annoying when you write three paragraphs in response to something and someone is just like "Huh??? Really obvious question that would be easily explained if I weren't too lazy to read the whole conversation??" As good as Flash is against P and T, he's historically been quite bad against Z in Bo3/5 series. He's been in three finals against Zerg and lost them all.
You're right in that regard, and that's why I generally dislike arguments over who is a "better" player. "Good" can mean good at impromptu matches, good at preparation, good at BoX's, good at single games, good at macro games, good at short games, high APM, good game sense, etc, etc. It's such a combination of different factors that it's hard to argue.
That said, I do think that Flash simply stomped Effort in games 1 and 2 in a way that really showed superior game sense and macro, whereas the rest of the games just showed Flash cracking under pressure, and Effort (with a little bit of luck on his side) executing relatively easy wins. Again, it does show mental weakness on Flash's part, but then we get back into how we define a "good" player.
Overall, I think that Flash's strategic mistakes he made in the early game during this series were uncharacteristic, and he's unlikely to make them again. Compare that to what it would take for Effort to close the gap in straight-up skills between the two that was displayed in the first two sets, and I would say Flash is pretty easily the better player.
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On May 22 2010 23:22 raga4ka wrote:
Fuck yeah Effort i knew you would win . Now i just hope that the arrogance from Flash fans will lower to a comprehensible level . Now on to Jaedong beating Flash . I'm happy that both my #3 and #2 favourite zergs are geting a crack at Flash .
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Flash brought a game plan that absolutely backfired on him. Some poor play by Flash, but mostly due to being caught off-guard by Effort, who was clearly prepared for the style Flash chose to play.
Reminds me of Barcelona v Inter Milan in the first leg, where a shocking ref decision and an epic failure of defence by Alves lost them the game and the series.
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Why so much Flash hate? -_-; what the fuck?
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EPT
