After seven bloody weeks, the round-robin of the Winners League has finally come to a close. Without a doubt the most exciting round of Proleague, a brutal, no holds barred contest where all the usual rules of polite, civilized competition are thrown out of the booth, the Winners League separates the wheat from the chaff, the men from the boys, those willing to set foot in the jungle from those stuck in the cozy confines of their team houses.
Glued to their booth seats while their victims come and go, the leaders of the pack leave behind a beastlike scent -- the acrid smell of a predator marking his territory. But while the beast in the jungle kills just enough to feed itself, picking off the weakest members of the herd, the progamer knows no such limits -- to hell with one or two meals, he'll slaughter the entire fucking forest. Such a massacre, if successful, has been dubbed "all-kill" by the few biologists reckless enough to study the species. Only the hungriest succeed: eleven players have all-killed this season.
A year ago, CJ Entus and Hwaseung OZ led the pack. A gentleman's agreement between the two might have secured their position, but this is the Winners League, where gentlemen are eaten alive. The rest of the pack looked on bitterly, and jumped at the first sign of weakness. Jaedong's poor form and EffOrt's slump marked them as an ideal prey -- both OZ and CJ were torn to pieces, with CJ barely securing a spot above Air Force ACE (the old and sickly members of the herd, all-killed even by cubs like PuMa and BaBy). The four teams that emerged from the bloodbath this time around are KT Rolster, MBCGame HERO, STX SouL and Woongjin Stars.
STX SouL is the reputedly deep team of the league. Two solid top tier players, Calm and Kal, carry out the heavy lifting. The mid-tier is made up of older warhorses like Hwasin and fresh faces like Shuttle, one of the breakout players of this Winners League. hero has slumped his way into the lower tier, where he joins average scrubs like FrOzen. Matchup specialist Modesty rounds out the team.
Woongjin Stars is spearheaded by two Zerg ruffians, ZerO and Kwanro, backed by the old dragon free. The team's breakout player this round is GuemChi, first all-killer of the Winners League. Stars' weakness resides in its lack of Terrans, or rather its lack of good Terrans. Instead, they have MVP and PianO.
The stakes are high -- the winning team will go on to face MBCGame Hero in the second playoff, for a chance to play in the final. Will Calm remind Kwanro of their little Avalon MSL final? Who will come out on top in the battle of the dragons? Will Shuttle and Guemchi go at each other's throats to see who actually deserves the hype? Will a Woongjin Terran create an upset -- after having been Hyuked, will STX be MVPed? Will Hwasin show Stars what a good Terran looks like? What if July comes out and eats a random Stars player?
In this match, MVP is like the ugly nerd who wasn't invited to the party but comes anyway. And since this isn't a teen coming-of-age flick but the motherfucking Winners League, the ugly nerd isn't getting the hot chick at the end. In other words, MVP ain't putting a dent in His Smugness. Yes, Kal got Hyuked. But Kal is 8-2 vs Terran, with wins against Light, HiyA and fantasy during this Winners League, so I really don't see him losing this. Sure, MVP may have a tricky build up his sleeve, but in his recent game vs fantasy Kal remained cool under pressure, deflected relentless harassment and hit fantasy in the metaphorical nads (DT drop then recall in the main). And this is PvT -- Protoss can always outcheese Terran. MVP is going to stand for Mauled Vs Protoss when Kal is through with this kid.
Roadrunner is good for TvP, but I don't see Stars risking another Terran against Kal. Kwanro is the logical choice, as he has a better chance than Zero of surviving the inevitable ZvZ sniping. This should be a close game, however I'll give Kwanro the edge due to Kal's shakiness against aggressive Zergs. Modesty, the ZvZ specialist, is sent out to deal with the Kwanroller. At this point it's clear that STX has been counting on his ZvZ rather than on Hwasin's TvZ to take down strong Zergs, which is a bit sad, but hey, this is the Winners League. No mercy for the elderly and the weak. Modesty has already beaten Kwanro, and since taking down top Zergs is his bread and butter, I think he can do it again.
After the ling fest, free comes out to abuse Modesty's excessive specialization and recapture some of that ol' dragon spirit. STX skips the Shuttle option and sends out Calm. Calm has taken his meds and keeps Clam at bay, a task made easier by the fact that he isn't going to ZvT. He proceeds to take down free and then goes up against the Stars ace, Zero. Now Zero is a cutie pie, but let's face it, his ZvZ is mediocre these days. Blame Luxury. Calm on the other hand is still one of the top ZvZers in the scene. The matchup is a clusterfuck, so obviously any prediction should be taken with a grain of salt, but the safest bet is to predict Calm taking it home for STX.
Of course, all bets are off if MVP does in fact beat Kal.
Hi all! Joining us for this short prematch interview are TL's prominent fanboys Realpenguin and Carnivorous Sheep
Samsung Khan, SKT and Oz all failed to qualify for the playoffs. Are you surprised your teams made it into the final four of this years WL? What's the main reason for your teams success?
Realpenguin: Samsung Khan, SK Telecom T1, and Hwaseung Oz are all very strong teams, but their reason for success in regular Proleague is really their downfall in Winner's League. They all seem to rely on one or two main players to pick up wins and take it into an ace match where their main players can easily take the series. For example, Khan with Stork and Jangbi, SKT with Bisu and Fantasy, and Oz with Jaedong. One would think "oh yeah these guys have some top players they can allkill in Winner's League ezpz," but Winner's League forces them to play maps and matchups they are uncomfortable with. Not to mention, some unknown players can just practice solely on sniping a well-known player. I'm not surprised that the Woongjin Stars made it in the playoffs because they have a very versatile line of Zerg and Protoss players that can handle each matchup well. And of course they have their "average" Terran line just in case a weak vT player needs to be sniped.
Carnivorous Sheep :Not surprised at all to be honest. STX is an insanely strong team, and had a really good shot last season at winning the grand finals if it wasn’t for the fluke win/crappy scoring system (yeah, that’s what I’m attributing it to!) by Khan. STX is one of the few teams right now with two top players who’re both in form, and when either Kal or Calm drops a game, the other is always there to pick the team back up. Strong performances from Shuttle and ZvZ sniper Modesty also definitely contributed to the team’s success. Last season, STX constantly played newer players to give them experience, and now it’s starting to pay off, whereas a certain one-man team that had great success last WL isn’t doing so hot. While one S-class player can certainly carry the team, overall, depth is winning out.
What do you think of the coaches' decision to open the match with Kal and MVP respectively?
Realpenguin: STX Soul's decision to send out Kal is a good choice. Kal has always been known for being solid in all matchups, losing to only the best of the best (Flash, Jaedong, etc.), and they probably thought that he could handle anything the Stars sent out. On the other hand, sending MVP is also a good choice mostly because of the surprise factor, and that many just write him off as a bad player. Let's not forget that MVP also can pull off great aggressive play (which he used to take a game off Kal in his OSL group), so he may come in with a special build that Kal is very uncomfortable against.
Carnivorous Sheep :Kal is a great opener since he is a solid, nay, great player against anyone Woongjin could possibly send out. Despite losses to Jaedong, Kal has some of the best PvZ on the scene, and he’s not the top ranked Protoss at the moment for nothing. He should be a favorite against anyone on Woongjin.
I must confess, MVP is a baffling choice to me. I’m sure most people are familiar with “Woongjin Terrans.” Playing MVP means that out of Kwanro-Zero-free-Guemchi, probably the four strongest Woongjin players, one of them won’t get a chance to play. It’s like the Stars coach is just giving away set one. Well, if you insist, we’ll take your free win and move on.
Do you thinking a specific map will play a crucial role for the final outcome or do all sets have the same importance?
Realpenguin: It is hard to say that one specific map that will play a very crucial role, so instead take a look at the first three maps. Kal plays against MVP on a very balanced PvT map (Fighting Spirit), but when MVP wins against Kal, he is set up to play games on two relatively good Terran maps (Roadrunner and Neo Moon Glaive). This is great, because having a Stars Terran take at least 2 sets before the big Zerg and Protoss guns are sent out is a huge advantage. Judgment Day is unfortunately a tough map for TvP, so MVP will have a pretty hard time going for an allkill, but the possibility of MVP taking 2-3 sets is very high. After the initial maps are over with, the Stars' deep Zerg and Protoss line will be able to put up a great fight (that is, of course, if MVP doesn't allkill right off the bat, which can happen).
Carnivorous Sheep: Woongjin is certainly not a weak team, and I’m personally quite partial to their Zerg-duo. In a match between two strong teams, there’s a good chance that any one player can unexpectedly perform well. That said, because of the impossibility of predicting how good any particular player will fare, assuming they all perform at potential, I think the first game is going to be the deciding one. Unless MVP can somehow take Kal out of the picture right away, Woongjin is probably done for. Even if MVP wins, STX should still have the edge.
Make your predictions!
Realpenguin:This is a very hard match to predict because both teams are so deep and have so many different options. But MVP will take the first set for sure. After that, the second set on Roadrunner will play a big role in deciding the match. I think STX will send Calm in an attempt to take out MVP and get three good zerg maps in a row (Neo Moon Glaive, Judgment Day, and New Tornado). Neo Moon Glaive is very Terran-sided in TvZ, but I don't think the Stars will risk sending out a second Terran to take out Calm, should he somehow win. And of course, when MVP wins, he has some good Terran maps waiting for him. MVP or Calm will be the key to victory in this series. If either MVP or Calm fail to pick up an allkill, both sides will get to unleash their Zerg and Protoss lines and just play some quality Brood War. But of course, the Stars have much more variety in that regard; they have GuemChi, free[gm], ZerO, and Kwanro, while STX has Kal, Calm, an inconsistent Shuttle, and a slumping hero. Either MVP will allkill these scrubs, or the Stars will edge out a nice 4-3 or 4-2 win with some good games. STX is going down.
Realpenguin:Good luck STX and STX fans; you're going to need it. Oh, and I've got my "MVP BONJWA" images ready for his glorious allkill. Carnivorous Sheep: STX is coming for the championship, baby! First WL, then grand finals! ^_^
I feel like I'm taking crazy pills, as it seems obvious to me that Stars will send Zero for set 2 after Kal beats MVP but no one else in this topic or the topic in the BW forum has predicted Zero in set 2.
Should be a great series. Both teams have such fun, interesting players I expect good games! I feel like if STX can just stop Kwanro from going on a random rape streak they should win easily.
I don't feel like Zero is going to play well vs. STX...
I would usually root for the underdog here (Stars in this case slightly) but I want to cheer for STX since it would be better to not get ROFLSTOMP by Flash (that's right! Flash NOT KT!).
This should be a good match since both teams look even. I think sending MVP first helps in two ways. One is he can luckily snipe Kal and take out one of soul's aces. The more important reason to send him first is that it helps keep your star players out of an early snipe.
Woah, does Korea time not do the whole DST thing? I was pumped cause this is usually when 13:00 KST is for me, but it appears to be another hour away D:
Wow, this blows. My friend just invited me to a party. I'm convinced beyond a doubt that the party won't be one-ninth as good as this match. But it's my spring break, and I need to unwind... I guess I won't watch my 2 favorite teams duke it out. Ah, well. Go STX!
On March 20 2010 12:02 numLoCK wrote: Woah, does Korea time not do the whole DST thing? I was pumped cause this is usually when 13:00 KST is for me, but it appears to be another hour away D:
Yep. The only bad thing about summer is staying up till 2:30/5:30 am to watch games
On March 20 2010 12:21 aycheff wrote: Where would I find this on a steam? I'm actually caught up on a tourny for once and would love to watch this live!
On March 20 2010 10:20 Mystlord wrote: I expected more from the interviews. Oh well.
Kal losees his 2 reavers. Has another at the base, but it's looking bad for him. MVP's got a semi contain on one road to his base. Kal's going around the middle. Setting up a flank, but MPV knows its there. KAL'S GOING FOR MVP'S NAT
kal uses this opportunity to clear out the isolated turrets, resetting some of the distance of mvp's push - but mvp's army returns and sieges up - kal gets a few zealots up close - doesn't look good for mvp!
Finally warping in his temp archive, going to see some storms. I was worried he was just going to tough it out with zealots and dragoons. Storms will make life a little easier.
TANK SHOT GETS ALL THE PROBES BEING MAYNARDED HARASSES THE THIRD AT THE SAME TIME but that's shut down easily.
MVP's tank count seems low; he's probably trying to buy time with his vultures in order to build up that critical mass. His nat is mined out i believe.
kal's army aborts mvp's attempt to expand to 2.5 actually the vultures killed a TON of probes at 12 but kal's army kills quite a few tanks at 2.5 - mvp's progress is being reset again and again
kal has 11 up and established - it's just a matter of time before his units overwhelm mvp - as kal is doing a good job of shutting down mvp whenever he tries to expand and continues to check all the expo locations for hidden ones with zealots and shuttles
kal adding 5 gates at 11 to supplement his 7? in his main
reaver dropped at 7 just as scvs arrive to mine there first storm cast - hits nothing another storm cast, okay - one shuttle killed, another retreats with the reaver
kal's goons clearing mines down the right side without observer, takes a lot of hits
kal heads towards mvp's main - mvp desperatly moves his army back to defend reaver/templar dropped at 7 - reaver dies immediately but templar storms a ton of scvs
pure a-move tank clearing a lot of kal's forces at 4 but enough goons are left in the main to take down tons of factories
kal kills mvp's main cc his attack on the main almost cleared out - but tons of mvp's buildings were killed kal pumping tons of zealots from his 6 gates at 11 - and adding 2 more gates there he's now up to 15 gates
MVP right in front of kal's nat. Kal finally attacks it. looks like Kal might not be able to break it, it's a lot of tanks. suddenly, TWO SHUTTLES PUSH BROKEN
i just love it because it's like, OF COURSE KAL WOULD HAVE 2 MORE SHUTTLES
Pretty good game. MVP didn't play all that badly. Considering Perfectman and Hyuk's recent performance, perhaps the famed triple three horror lineups of the proleague is looking better?
Kal is a beast. He isn't the "red shuttle" for nothing. Gosu reaver micro.
I think the main problem was that MVP let Kal get that group of goons on his left flank and didn't properly mine the counterattack avenue, which stalled his push and screwed him since he didn't have a third up.
I didnt see MVP's plan that game, normally if you slow push, you are supposed to take the base on the way, he should have just secured the backstabbing path and taken the third. He was at the lead at one point
Kal's attacks flowed to MVP's weakest points like water flows to the lowest points. I'm rooting for woongjin, but I gotta admit that that was damn good play by Kal. Even if he has that stupid smug face.
On March 20 2010 13:43 Jaksiel wrote: I would view both Kwanro and especially Zero as favorites against Kal.
And you'd be wrong lol.
I can see disagreement on Kwanro, but Zero has owned Kal every single time they've played.
Zero also had to prepare for OSL last night. He's not gonna be sent out since I'm assuming Woongjin had a plan for when MVP inevitably failed. Someone else prepared for Kal, and it's not gonna be Zero.
That was a fantastic PvT. Kal played nearly perfectly, although he could have definitely taken measures to prevent being harassed so much. I'm pretty sure Woongjn will be sending a zerg next.
Stars are really holding on to their stronger players. I'm not sure how smart this is considering how Kal just mopped the floor with another scrub. Guess they're banking on the Hyuk Effect.
I wonder if Woongjin have forgotten that this is the playoffs. Maybe they think it's just the last regular set, and since they won't win WL anyway, they can give their worst players some experience.
Well its playoffs, you can try new players a bit because these games don't count toward overall proleague record even if they lose. Wonder how high they value winnersleague win after all?
On March 20 2010 13:49 Too_MuchZerg wrote: Well its playoffs, you can try new players a bit because these games don't count toward overall record even if they lose. Wonder how high they value winnersleague win after all?
I guess they know that they can't win against KT even if they win today
Most likely they had Zero and Kwanro preparing for a variety of matchups and maps and wanted to let Soulkey prepare specifically for the situation where MVP loses the first set.
On March 20 2010 13:51 dukethegold wrote: Stars is in it to win though, if Zero's interview is any indication. Zero definitely want to take on Light in the playoff.
Well there might be a distinction between a player's desire and the coach's.
But we'll find out soon enough when we see the coach's 3rd and 4th picks.
On March 20 2010 13:51 Zona wrote: I do think soulkey was prepared as a snipe. no disrespect to MVP, but I doubt the coach was counting on winning the first set.
I don't see the point of preparing a specific snipe here when you have three strong players left. This absolutely should have been Zero or Kwanro.
On March 20 2010 13:51 Zona wrote: I do think soulkey was prepared as a snipe. no disrespect to MVP, but I doubt the coach was counting on winning the first set.
given that it's SOULKEY, they probably had him prepared for a snipe and someone else prepared to come in if MVP won. more than 4 players can practice at once
On March 20 2010 13:51 Zona wrote: I do think soulkey was prepared as a snipe. no disrespect to MVP, but I doubt the coach was counting on winning the first set.
I don't see the point of preparing a specific snipe here when you have three strong players left. This absolutely should have been Zero or Kwanro.
Again - Zero had to prepare for OSL, and Kwanro would just get eaten alive. THey'd probably send Kwanro on Neo Moon Glaive for a much higher chance of winning.
On March 20 2010 13:51 dukethegold wrote: Stars is in it to win though, if Zero's interview is any indication. Zero definitely want to take on Light in the playoff.
But why send a sniper when you've already wasted a spot -- ok, that's sounds pretty harsh -- on one of your weaker players? If Soulkey loses, will they send out PianO? "Watch out Kal, we have a second sniper on your ass!1!!" He'll all-kill them at that rate.
On March 20 2010 13:51 Zona wrote: I do think soulkey was prepared as a snipe. no disrespect to MVP, but I doubt the coach was counting on winning the first set.
I don't see the point of preparing a specific snipe here when you have three strong players left. This absolutely should have been Zero or Kwanro.
Again - Zero had to prepare for OSL, and Kwanro would just get eaten alive. THey'd probably send Kwanro on Neo Moon Glaive for a much higher chance of winning.
Kwanro certainly would not get eaten alive, and I really think Zero could manage to prepare for this even after OSL. Besides, given their track record against each other, I doubt Zero needs much preparation to beat Kal.
On March 20 2010 13:51 Zona wrote: I do think soulkey was prepared as a snipe. no disrespect to MVP, but I doubt the coach was counting on winning the first set.
I don't see the point of preparing a specific snipe here when you have three strong players left. This absolutely should have been Zero or Kwanro.
Again - Zero had to prepare for OSL, and Kwanro would just get eaten alive. THey'd probably send Kwanro on Neo Moon Glaive for a much higher chance of winning.
Kwanro certainly would not get eaten alive, and I really think Zero could manage to prepare for this even after OSL. Besides, given their track record against each other, I doubt Zero needs much preparation to beat Kal.
Track record means so little. Kal is ridiculously good vZ. If you take out his games against Jaedong he'd have a beastly PvZ record.
On March 20 2010 13:51 dukethegold wrote: Stars is in it to win though, if Zero's interview is any indication. Zero definitely want to take on Light in the playoff.
i'm going to guess it will either be a 2hatch muta build or involve some sorta 3 hatch hydra bust (at least the kinda of midgame hydra push where you attack the nat with just like 6 or 7 hydras)
On March 20 2010 13:59 Ideas wrote: i'm going to guess it will either be a 2hatch muta build or involve some sorta 3 hatch hydra bust (at least the kinda of midgame hydra push where you attack the nat with just like 6 or 7 hydras)
stargate starts for kal - soulkey's OL starts leaving kal's main - one is still by the bridges though, will be easy to snipe once a goon or sair comes out
kal finally reaches 4 successfully with a probe, confirms that there's a base there
4th and 5th hatches starting for soulkey - similar timings as all the games spire first first sair out hitting overlords a 2nd gate at the nat, that's not something you see everyday
On March 20 2010 14:01 Chen wrote: you have guemchi, free, zero, and kwanro, so as the woojin coach you think its a good idea to send out... MVP and Soulkey.... just wow
As I said earlier, it's like MBC before.
Woongjin knows they have no chance against STX, might as well give their scrubs some exposure and hope they become better.
On March 20 2010 14:02 Carnivorous Sheep wrote: Woongjin knows they have no chance against STX, might as well give their scrubs some exposure and hope they become better.
STX must not have been trying when Woongjin beat them in WL regular season.
On March 20 2010 14:01 Chen wrote: you have guemchi, free, zero, and kwanro, so as the woojin coach you think its a good idea to send out... MVP and Soulkey.... just wow
As I said earlier, it's like MBC before.
Woongjin knows they have no chance against STX, might as well give their scrubs some exposure and hope they become better.
They definitely have a chance considering the two hottest zergs atm are on their team.
first observer sniped as it moves with the army towards 12 to prepare the location for expansion more hydralurk moving forwards! they cross the north bridge!
lurker/hydra contain set up south of 12 storm does a little damage but a lot of scourge snipe both observers kal's locked in a dt or two added to kal's army mix! he has another obs at his rally point
shuttle loads up - but hands around 12 - slow shuttle moves to soulkey's main and drops 2 dts 2 zealots 2 sunkens there with 2 ol's but the sunkens aren't enough!
At this point, soulkey could probably take another two expansions without any consequences. Don't need to mine, just having a hatch there for the future.
more lings rush in to the 1 ramp under swarm, more storms kill them all some lurkers now - kal's army at 1 slowly being whittled down but more goons reinforce!
with swarm, lurkerling pushs up the ramp to kal's base at 1 - but attack dies but soulkey brings more lurkerhydraling there - storms kill a LOT of zerg units
lurkerling pushes further towards 1 - no swarm this time all 4 observers plagued! finally a swarm goes down kal furiously micro'ing his reaver/shuttle still dealing tons of damage to the zerg's forces but the reinforcements are endless
This is probably the only good time to send Hwasin. He's facing an inexperienced zerg who was obviously sent for a specific snipe, on an incredibly good TvZ map, and Woongjin's next two players are almost guaranteed to be zergs.
Kal did his job in that he made Stars send out two crappy players to snipe him, killing one of them. STX is definitely ahead now that Stars can only send out two of their good players.
I don't think kal's 3-shuttle drop was a profit for him he was able to clear about one base's worth of drones with a storm - but after that, all those zealots/dts/reavers/shuttles lost the reinforcing drops were DEFINITELY not worth it
On March 20 2010 14:18 Zona wrote: I don't think kal's 3-shuttle drop was a profit for him he was able to clear about one base's worth of drones with a storm - but after that, all those zealots/dts/reavers/shuttles lost the reinforcing drops were DEFINITELY not worth it
kal needed to break the contain instead
Totally agree. He commited too much there. He desperately needed to break the contain and secure 4th. Instead he wasted tons of minerals on those drops...
Oh yeah, the playback reminds me of something I forgot to note in the LR - soulkey kept lings or OLs at every empty base to ensure kal didn't create a hidden expo
On March 20 2010 14:22 Jaksiel wrote: This also puzzles me, why do you need to snipe Soulkey? Why not save Modesty for Zero or Kwanro?
Why not? Stars have 3 top players left and only two of them are can play. Modesty is a great choice against any Zerg, This basically forces Starts to use Free next game if modesty wins and Calm should be able to take Free down taking...
On March 20 2010 14:24 Devolved wrote: Seriously, why did they use a metal detector on Modesty?
Because KeSPA rules. Mainly to stop any communication tools be used.
It's a good idea. Otherwise a hidden wireless device could give players a huge advantage. Even a vibrating pager to signify that the opponent isn't playing straight up can totally nullify those strategies.
On March 20 2010 14:22 TwoToneTerran wrote: Ugh, I guess Hwasin really isn't relevant for them anymore.
That's why I'm saddened every time they send out Modesty. It's nice to see STX developing new blood, but not when it's at the expense of the Red Sniper. And somehow the guy still makes it into the OSL every season.
On March 20 2010 14:22 TwoToneTerran wrote: Ugh, I guess Hwasin really isn't relevant for them anymore.
That's why I'm saddened every time they send out Modesty. It's nice to see STX developing new blood, but not when it's at the expense of the Red Sniper. And somehow the guy still makes it into the OSL every season.
It is kind of sad =(
Hwasin staying at home to train Last and Bogus, the next generation of Terran bonjwas imo.
On March 20 2010 14:24 Devolved wrote: Seriously, why did they use a metal detector on Modesty?
Because KeSPA rules. Mainly to stop any communication tools be used.
It's a good idea. Otherwise a hidden wireless device could give players a huge advantage. Even a vibrating pager to signify that the opponent isn't playing straight up can totally nullify those strategies.
On March 20 2010 14:22 TwoToneTerran wrote: Ugh, I guess Hwasin really isn't relevant for them anymore.
That's why I'm saddened every time they send out Modesty. It's nice to see STX developing new blood, but not when it's at the expense of the Red Sniper. And somehow the guy still makes it into the OSL every season.
Yeah, he beat Killer to get to OSL. Not a great achievement to be honest. As sad as it is Hwasin's days of glory are over...
Hmm, I don't know if Modesty is a good idea or not. Sure he'll kill soulkey, but who will be there to snipe Kwanro or ZerO? At the same time, Stars can only safely send Free against Modesty, so that means either ZerO or Kwanro won't get to play.
On March 20 2010 14:22 Jaksiel wrote: This also puzzles me, why do you need to snipe Soulkey? Why not save Modesty for Zero or Kwanro?
Why not? Stars have 3 top players left and only two of them are can play. Modesty is a great choice against any Zerg, This basically forces Starts to use Free next game if modesty wins and Calm should be able to take Free down taking...
if modesty wins and then free takes out modesty, I expect shuttle from STX before calm. reason being that it puts less pressure on shuttle to win and calm has a whole lot of experience in high pressure situations.
On March 20 2010 14:22 Jaksiel wrote: This also puzzles me, why do you need to snipe Soulkey? Why not save Modesty for Zero or Kwanro?
Why not? Stars have 3 top players left and only two of them are can play. Modesty is a great choice against any Zerg, This basically forces Starts to use Free next game if modesty wins and Calm should be able to take Free down taking...
if modesty wins and then free takes out modesty, I expect shuttle from STX before calm. reason being that it puts less pressure on shuttle to win and calm has a whole lot of experience in high pressure situations.
Good call. Shuttle is a actually really great against both P and Z. I can easily see him taking it home with some luck.
more and more lings stream into modesty's base puffs really exploiting this build's lack of larva modesty down to 5 or 6 drones mutas arrive at puff's nat - but the spore is ready
Modesty is so dead. Spores up for Soulkey and his nat is running just fine, while Modesty's econ is crippled. Hatch in-base is overrated imo. The timing window for the mutas is too narrow.
but modesty has accumulated a group of lings and now counter attacks!
but puffs has 3 mutas of his own at the nat - modesty runs his lings awa from the spores in the main for some reason to attack the nat ones - but despite killing the spore, he lets his own mutas get owned now puffs has 4 mutas while he has 1, (now 2)
puffs attacking modesty's mutas with 4 of his own and 2 scourge, deals tons of damage and kills 1, but another one spawns for modesty and he pulls back
puffs no longer mining at his nat - modesty builds 4 scourge puffs no longer with a gas mining advantage, but he's still got plenty more drones and the spores really hurt modesty's opportunities to attack as his air force hands outside puff's base without fighting
zvz is such a finicky matchup it doesn't make sense to send out a Zerg vs. a b team zerg when you have one of the most consistent TvZ'ers in Hwasin on your team.
On March 20 2010 14:43 Chairman Ray wrote: I'm actually quite surprised at how well Modesty is holding off despite being at such a disadvantage. Soulkey may be playing a bit too passively
He was on two base to one, there was no reason for him to take any unnecessary risk.
On March 20 2010 14:43 Devolved wrote: zvz is such a finicky matchup it doesn't make sense to send out a Zerg vs. a b team zerg when you have one of the most consistent TvZ'ers in Hwasin on your team.
maybe they were trying to get Hwasin vs Zero instead of Hwasin vs Free.
puffs was definitely a bit passive for his advantage, but I don't blame him. It's better to be safe and build your advantage than risk attacking and maybe getting your base ruined by a ling counter or something.
After n.Die_Soo, another no-name Zerg is getting two kills against STX. And Hwasin would've sunken broken that scrub with one hand. STX needs to shape up and improve their Terran lineup. This ZvZ fest isn't cutting it.
I'm 100% not sure about this, but from the fraction of pro games I watch, it seems that the expand-first player is winning more often against the earlier-mutalisks player - which wasn't the case when the expo-first-and-spore-up trend started.
Of course Modesty left himself vulnerable to the ling break which led to his loss he didn't pay enough attention to Soulkey's base to see what spawned from the eggs
well, woongjin has two strong zergs left, so hwasin could be a good choice. but hwasin would likely get sniped by free, and I'm not sure calm can beat free and zero.
I"m incredibly disappointed, the first two games were awesome but now it's boring. The only ZvZs worth watching anymore now that Jaedong is dead are Zero's funny ones. =\
On March 20 2010 14:50 TwoToneTerran wrote: I"m incredibly disappointed, the first two games were awesome but now it's boring. The only ZvZs worth watching anymore now that Jaedong is dead are Zero's funny ones. =\
ZvZ's one of the better matchups, don't be hatin'.
Hwasin must really be sucking ass in practice for them to rely on ZvZ luck to take down soulkey, especially with TvZ stats the way they've been this season.
On March 20 2010 14:50 TwoToneTerran wrote: I"m incredibly disappointed, the first two games were awesome but now it's boring. The only ZvZs worth watching anymore now that Jaedong is dead are Zero's funny ones. =\
ZvZ's one of the better matchups, don't be hatin'.
Anyways, hero's got this. ^___^
Tell me one thing exciting that happens in ZvZ that isn't Jaedong or Zero related.
I like good ZvZ. Modesty, By.Hero and Soulkey are not good ZvZ.
I'm pretty sure out of the two spots that are left, one of them is Calm's, so STX sends a crappy Zerg instead of Shuttle or Hwasin? Especially when Soulkey just smashed STX's best ZvZ player...
On March 20 2010 14:52 TealLurker wrote: If hero wins, we could be looking at Kwanro or Zero next. If SK wins, we are probably looking at Calm next. More ZvZ!!! Ugh!
The only matches left for the day are ZvZ. Calm will come out as STX's fourth if it comes to that and Kwanro and Zero are the shoe ins for Woongjin -- MAAAYBE Free on match point, but I doubt it.
On March 20 2010 14:55 Chairman Ray wrote: Why send out Hero...
I'm pretty sure out of the two spots that are left, one of them is Calm's, so STX sends a crappy Zerg instead of Shuttle or Hwasin? Especially when Soulkey just smashed STX's best ZvZ player...
Hwasin's not doing so hot lately. People need to stop clinging on to the old "OMG Hwasin autowin TvZ" idea.
The next couple maps are pretty bad for PvZ, and Kwanro and Zero are both out there. Might as well use Calm who has good ZvZ, and hero who will stop free from being sent out.
Besides, hero doesn't get enough love. Kid's gonna own.
On March 20 2010 14:52 TealLurker wrote: If hero wins, we could be looking at Kwanro or Zero next. If SK wins, we are probably looking at Calm next. More ZvZ!!! Ugh!
The only matches left for the day are ZvZ. Calm will come out as STX's fourth if it comes to that and Kwanro and Zero are the shoe ins for Woongjin -- MAAAYBE Free on match point, but I doubt it.
On March 20 2010 14:52 TealLurker wrote: If hero wins, we could be looking at Kwanro or Zero next. If SK wins, we are probably looking at Calm next. More ZvZ!!! Ugh!
The only matches left for the day are ZvZ. Calm will come out as STX's fourth if it comes to that and Kwanro and Zero are the shoe ins for Woongjin -- MAAAYBE Free on match point, but I doubt it.
ZvZ FTW. You sir, do shame to to your Zerg icon.
There's just nothing exciting about it, man. My zerg icon is for ZvP and ZvT.
when I did play on Iccup I played TvZ instead of zvz.
On March 20 2010 14:52 TealLurker wrote: If hero wins, we could be looking at Kwanro or Zero next. If SK wins, we are probably looking at Calm next. More ZvZ!!! Ugh!
The only matches left for the day are ZvZ. Calm will come out as STX's fourth if it comes to that and Kwanro and Zero are the shoe ins for Woongjin -- MAAAYBE Free on match point, but I doubt it.
yeah, both teams are playing to win and since none of them have a reliable terran we only see more zerg
On March 20 2010 14:50 TwoToneTerran wrote: I"m incredibly disappointed, the first two games were awesome but now it's boring. The only ZvZs worth watching anymore now that Jaedong is dead are Zero's funny ones. =\
ZvZ's one of the better matchups, don't be hatin'.
Plus - considering hero had just that mutalisk and the few lings left - what else could he have been paying attention to, to let the muta get scourged?
This is kinda funny. STX probably spend all their time practicing vs Z because ZerO and Kwanro are WJN's best players, yet they're getting rolled by Soulkey.
That's the downside of Winners League. It's great when your favorite player is going through an opposing team like a bag of peanuts, but it gets kind of embarassing when a random scrub goes on a tear like this, with some help from the coach's crap decisions.
And I refuse to believe that Hwasin is performing worse than hero during practice.
you guys obviously havent been following dreamleague, Soulkey is absolutely tearing it up, 10-1 over there. nice for him to see it translate to results in the real deal
On March 20 2010 15:27 Devolved wrote: lololololol idiot coach 3 zvz's in a row lol
Why is he an idiot? Thats how every single team(except ace because they suck) has been sniping zergs in WL.
It's stupid because you have one of the highest percentage tvz'ers on your team. Much higher then any of those zergs were at zvz.
Obviously the coach knows more than you and it's very, VERY likely that Hwasin is sucking ass right now. Just look at his record + the fact that he's a relatively old progamer now.
I dont really know those two lings waited for speed finished or for pop limit for two overlords (hence the next egg would morph into overlord and no lings for defense). If it was the later, then the guy is really sick
On March 20 2010 15:27 Devolved wrote: lololololol idiot coach 3 zvz's in a row lol
Why is he an idiot? Thats how every single team(except ace because they suck) has been sniping zergs in WL.
It's stupid because you have one of the highest percentage tvz'ers on your team. Much higher then any of those zergs were at zvz.
Hwasin is not as good anymore. Modesty and Calm have recently over the past few months performed a lot better vs Z over hwasin. + Calm/Hero can actually take 2 games or 3, whileas hwasin will get kwanrolled/Zerolled, and will get crushed by Free.
On March 20 2010 15:31 Chairman Ray wrote: STX made a terrible choice sending out Hero instead of Hwasin or Shuttle. Hwasin could have probably took out soulkey.
he might of been able to take out soulkey but would of gotten totally raped by kwanro or zero.
i assume in set 4 he had to chose between shuttle, calm, and hero. calm has best nerves so should go last. shouldnt use a P on that map. gogo hero -_-
On March 20 2010 15:32 economist_ wrote: I dont really know those two lings waited for speed finished or for pop limit for two overlords (hence the next egg would morph into overlord and no lings for defense). If it was the later, then the guy is really sick
It was speed. His ling were up the ramp RIGHT as speed finished.
On March 20 2010 15:32 economist_ wrote: I dont really know those two lings waited for speed finished or for pop limit for two overlords (hence the next egg would morph into overlord and no lings for defense). If it was the later, then the guy is really sick
It was speed. His ling were up the ramp RIGHT as speed finished.
This is the second time I have seen Calm lose the big game in the playoffs in a very disappointing fashion. Soulkey's all-kill was so unexpected and it proves that woongjin has the best zerg lineup out there
On March 20 2010 15:32 economist_ wrote: I dont really know those two lings waited for speed finished or for pop limit for two overlords (hence the next egg would morph into overlord and no lings for defense). If it was the later, then the guy is really sick
it was probably a combination of both. His overlord was sitting there the entire team, so I guess he did wait out the eggs: 1 into drone.. 2 eggs left 1 into drone.. 1 egg left egg hasn't hatched yet.. SK attacks knowing its an overlord.
On March 20 2010 15:34 OniX wrote: This is the second time I have seen Calm lose the big game in the playoffs in a very disappointing fashion. Soulkey's all-kill was so unexpected and it proves that woongjin has the best zerg lineup out there
On March 20 2010 15:34 OniX wrote: This is the second time I have seen Calm lose the big game in the playoffs in a very disappointing fashion. Soulkey's all-kill was so unexpected and it proves that woongjin has the best zerg lineup out there
ehhh he couldnt really do much in that game. soulkey had the gas advantage AND scouting advantage. calm played really well but basically lost soulkey got lingspeed.
On March 20 2010 15:27 Devolved wrote: lololololol idiot coach 3 zvz's in a row lol
Why is he an idiot? Thats how every single team(except ace because they suck) has been sniping zergs in WL.
It's stupid because you have one of the highest percentage tvz'ers on your team. Much higher then any of those zergs were at zvz.
Obviously the coach knows more than you and it's very, VERY likely that Hwasin is sucking ass right now. Just look at his record + the fact that he's a relatively old progamer now.
The only thing that's obvious is they just got all-killed by a no-name Zerg largely due to the fact that they kept sending zergs out, which is notoriously the most unpredictable matchup in the game.
On March 20 2010 15:34 OniX wrote: This is the second time I have seen Calm lose the big game in the playoffs in a very disappointing fashion. Soulkey's all-kill was so unexpected and it proves that woongjin has the best zerg lineup out there
ehhh he couldnt really do much in that game. soulkey had the gas advantage AND scouting advantage. calm played really well but basically lost soulkey got lingspeed.
Soulkey's Muta micro was terrible, ate so many Scourge. Couldn't make up for the scouting/gas advantage unfortunatley T_T
On March 20 2010 15:35 Holgerius wrote: Awesome, STX totally deserved that for continuously sending out crappy Zergs.
C'mon give soulkey some credit here. They sent out one crappy zerg in hero. The others were kal and calm, and modesty the zerg sniper who's killed guys like jaedong and effort recently
Even more so than the unexpected all-kill, the list of players sent out is pretty eyebrow-raising. Hwasin didn't get sent out for TvZ while modesty the ZvP failure went out.. Soulkey and MVP for a team with geumchi/free/kwanro/zero. If this were a real proleague playoff game, I can't imagine they don't come out with the big guns.
On March 20 2010 15:37 baubo wrote: Even more so than the unexpected all-kill, the list of players sent out is pretty eyebrow-raising. Hwasin didn't get sent out for TvZ while modesty the ZvP failure went out.. Soulkey and MVP for a team with geumchi/free/kwanro/zero. If this were a real proleague playoff game, I can't imagine they don't come out with the big guns.
I don't know why people are mad at the decisions of stx. The only one that was questionable was hero. The others were reasonable choices but they just lost that is all.
The only truly bad decision from the STX coach was hero. Modesty was expected, and once they reached the last game, so was Calm. But hero, a player who's in the throes of what looks like an unrecoverable slump?
On March 20 2010 15:39 thopol wrote: I am a burning cocktail of nerdrage. I wish this were a sport where I could fight a Woongjin fan to feel better about it.
The first 2 games were great. Everything else sucked.
Gotta root for MBC I guess...
MBC is going to get destroyed by Woongjin. Theyll just natural all kill Kwanroll MBC.
On March 20 2010 15:41 Ideas wrote: man so depressed. every time calm gets a chance to redeem himself from his slump he either plays bad or gets screwed.
The best decision of the night might have been the first one for woongjin in sending out MVP first and saving their stars from being easily sniped, like what happened for stx
hahahah omgg why did stx send out these players when they have A MUCH DEEPER LINEUP -___-- seriously and i was so excited after watching kal vs mvp.. great micro and harass there -.- disappointed in stx
WJN will have no trouble against MBC. Light is a very solid player that plays excellent on the fly, but doesn't improve under practice, that's why he lost to Perfectman. Essentially he's an unstoppable noobslayer. He has little against WJN. Sea on the other hand probably has a bigger potential to take down ZerO or Kwanro, but he just ain't that good anymore. Han, Hyun, and Jaehoon probably can't get more than one kill combined.
I can see Stars winning this Winner's league. They will need to practice vT hard to take down MBC but that practice will see them through and lead them to a win against KTFlash as well.
Shuttle could've all-killed Stars; he rapes vs both Z and P, and there's not really any T on Stars good enough to pose a threat. And still they send Hero...
On March 20 2010 15:56 Holgerius wrote: Shuttle could've all-killed Stars; he rapes vs both Z and P, and there's not really any T on Stars good enough to pose a threat. And still they send Hero...
Its most likely due to the map lineup. Kal got stomped hard.
On March 20 2010 15:56 Holgerius wrote: Shuttle could've all-killed Stars; he rapes vs both Z and P, and there's not really any T on Stars good enough to pose a threat. And still they send Hero...
There is no way that YJ will beat both Zero and Kwanro.
YJ's PvT is actually really strong too unlike what his stats say, he plays like a mini Best with insane macro.
On March 20 2010 15:56 Holgerius wrote: Shuttle could've all-killed Stars; he rapes vs both Z and P, and there's not really any T on Stars good enough to pose a threat. And still they send Hero...
There is no way that YJ will beat both Zero and Kwanro.
Last time Shuttle played vs Zero he crushed him. One might also mention that this was during Shuttle's 10 game win streak in PvZ.
anyone remember this interview done last year about soulkey?
Caster: Can you name me one of the players, excluding Free, GGPlay, and Zero, who you think will be the 'next-big-thing'? A player you have a high expectation?
Coach: Yes, Neo.G Soulkey, zerg player. In practise ranking... Well, practise ranking doesn't always prove right, but I have this mindset, "do well during the practise, you'll have chance to shine." At one point, Soulkey was about to be kicked out of the team because he was so bad. But when the coaches began to teach him to be better, he suddenly became one of the top five in our ranking.
Caster: So will we see him in proleague anytime soon? Soulkey?
Coach: For him to do well in proleague... He has to wait at least 6 additional months after I say this
it's been more than 6 months...looks like the star's coaches' prediction is beginning to come true :D
Hahahaha Oh my God. Good thing I missed this match! Though I do love SoulKey, with love mind you, but I'm so mad at Clam right now... it's still pretty funny overall to see the results XD
Didn't use Shuttle, Didn't use Hwasin, used fucking by.slumpinglikefuck.hero?
Why the FUCK did STX not send out Hwasin or shuttle or even Bogus? This has to go down as one of the worst decisions EVER! (I know hwasin and bogus aren't in the best form these days but come on it's TvZ and it's Neo Soulkey it wouldn't have been ard to win..)
Caster: Can you name me one of the players, excluding Free, GGPlay, and Zero, who you think will be the 'next-big-thing'? A player you have a high expectation?
Coach: Yes, Neo.G Soulkey, zerg player. In practise ranking... Well, practise ranking doesn't always prove right, but I have this mindset, "do well during the practise, you'll have chance to shine." At one point, Soulkey was about to be kicked out of the team because he was so bad. But when the coaches began to teach him to be better, he suddenly became one of the top five in our ranking.
Caster: So will we see him in proleague anytime soon? Soulkey?
Coach: For him to do well in proleague... He has to wait at least 6 additional months after I say this
it's been more than 6 months...looks like the star's coaches' prediction is beginning to come true :D
Exactly the neo Zero. Zero had the same situation, and he pulled through. Heck they even look and play alike. I always knew he was good since I watched his map test games. But lol@STX for failing in the playoffs
On March 20 2010 15:55 Neptuneajax wrote: I can see Stars winning this Winner's league. They will need to practice vT hard to take down MBC but that practice will see them through and lead them to a win against KTFlash as well.
They only need to find another Neo.HeroKey and Neo.RolsterKey.
On March 20 2010 15:55 Neptuneajax wrote: I can see Stars winning this Winner's league. They will need to practice vT hard to take down MBC but that practice will see them through and lead them to a win against KTFlash as well.
They only need to find another Neo.HeroKey and Neo.RolsterKey.
On March 20 2010 15:55 Neptuneajax wrote: I can see Stars winning this Winner's league. They will need to practice vT hard to take down MBC but that practice will see them through and lead them to a win against KTFlash as well.
They only need to find another Neo.HeroKey and Neo.RolsterKey.
I don't get why STX didn't send hwasin after kal. Hwasin has higher chances in sniping soulkey and getting one more kill than hero and modesty unless the next opponent is free or something.
On March 20 2010 15:55 Neptuneajax wrote: I can see Stars winning this Winner's league. They will need to practice vT hard to take down MBC but that practice will see them through and lead them to a win against KTFlash as well.
They only need to find another Neo.HeroKey and Neo.RolsterKey.
Nobody's gonna beat flash.
Piano did last season.
sup, guemchi
YOU GONNA TAKE SHOTS AT FLASH I'M GONNA TAKE SHOTS AT CJ/JD LET'S GO
On March 20 2010 15:36 wantan wrote: does this seem familiar? last season in stx cup where stx played against skt and got hyuked
LMAO so true, I don't think they used their best line up for that? Anyway, I think Stars strategy was send the most random players and hope for their hidden potential to hit on stage, cause MVP was seriously a super random choice to me and Soulkey I've seen a few games from him, seemed like a potential player (micro oriented) but godamn all kill!? -That's how you become a legend overnight.
I CAN'T WAIT FOR MBC VS STARS! - Hope Light doesn't "Perfectman" his Semi Finals for WL and also I hope that 'earmap' hype with flash doesn't get to his mindset, I enjoy seeing the potential rise from different players.
The STX coach didn't send out Hwasin or Frozen because the terrans have probably been getting raped in the practice house. More confidence in their zergs.
they should have sent hwasin second, it was too late by the time calm was sent out. Free would have just completely dismantled hwasin if soulkey went down, at least calm stood a fighting chance against the entire woongjin line up, hwasin probably only stood a chance against soulkey. Raped
I am really surprised that STX didn't send out Shuttle. He has a 60% overall win-rate in PvZ and is 9-1 in his last 10 games vs Zerg. Oh well, hopefully next round the games will be a little bit better.
On March 20 2010 15:34 OniX wrote: This is the second time I have seen Calm lose the big game in the playoffs in a very disappointing fashion. Soulkey's all-kill was so unexpected and it proves that woongjin has the best zerg lineup out there
Jangbi's bullshit Zealot rush last season :3
Yea, it was complete bullshit that calm didn't react to it properly even though he saw the forge spinning really early.
On March 20 2010 15:34 OniX wrote: This is the second time I have seen Calm lose the big game in the playoffs in a very disappointing fashion. Soulkey's all-kill was so unexpected and it proves that woongjin has the best zerg lineup out there
Jangbi's bullshit Zealot rush last season :3
Yea, it was complete bullshit that calm didn't react to it properly even though he saw the forge spinning really early.
But this is hilarious.
Calm never got to see the spinning Forge. Or was it extra gateways? I forgot exactly bit it was some all in the OL couldn't see
I don't care what decision the coaches made or if soulkey deserves his wins, I'm just pissed to see the only game for the next 3 or 4 days end with only one good game. I was pumped after game 1 because it was really really good but I hoped for kal vs zero or kwanro and after that maybe calm vs free. These teams have so many great possible matchups and in then it ends with 3 boring zvz.
On March 20 2010 15:34 OniX wrote: This is the second time I have seen Calm lose the big game in the playoffs in a very disappointing fashion. Soulkey's all-kill was so unexpected and it proves that woongjin has the best zerg lineup out there
Jangbi's bullshit Zealot rush last season :3
Yea, it was complete bullshit that calm didn't react to it properly even though he saw the forge spinning really early.
But this is hilarious.
Calm never got to see the spinning Forge. Or was it extra gateways? I forgot exactly bit it was some all in the OL couldn't see
He saw the forge spinning with the OL. 5:30 in the game. There were no extra gateways(3 gateways off of 2 base is nothing out of the ordinary), he just researched speed early.
As a matter of fact, Jangbi went double stargate which didn't even really come into play. Had he actually gone more all in with the zealot rush he would've crushed Calm even harder. Even if he saw the citadel he would've probably assume he was just teching to templars.
2009 PL playoffs --> fails to win against a struggling Khan team 2009 STX cup --> fails by failing hard to SKT1 2010 WL playoffs --> fails to mediocre ZvZ
Seeing a trend? STX fails in situations where they need to deliver. Not because of their lack of talent, but their abundance of FAIL in ways unimaginable to the human mind.
EPT
![[image loading]](http://i43.tinypic.com/1689chd.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://i41.tinypic.com/wslqjc.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://i44.tinypic.com/9u87eu.jpg)
Kal < Fighting Spirit > 
MVP![[image loading]](http://i44.tinypic.com/11ltu37.jpg)
Jaedong's poor form and ![[image loading]](http://i40.tinypic.com/n2cugw.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://i41.tinypic.com/so4nsw.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://i42.tinypic.com/28b8wv8.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://i41.tinypic.com/e0h6xz.jpg)
uncharacteristically shitty shit talk~
![[image loading]](http://engrishfunny.files.wordpress.com/2010/03/engrish-funny-good-friend.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://img266.imageshack.us/img266/4292/ilovestxcaps.jpg)
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![[image loading]](http://img694.imageshack.us/img694/7758/asdasdasdasdasds.jpg)
soulkey![[image loading]](http://media.tuzulo.com/images/5yuzh/5yhd9/03202010-neogunit.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://media.tuzulo.com/images/5yuzg/5yhd9/03202010-CANTHANDLETHIS.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://img694.imageshack.us/img694/6035/soulkey.jpg)
