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[SWL] KT Rolster vs STX SouL - Page 73

Forum Index > Brood War Tournaments
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TwoToneTerran
Profile Joined March 2009
United States8841 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-03-12 03:31:54
March 12 2010 03:31 GMT
#1441
If other ace players didn't exist they wouldn't beat KT's players. I imagine it'd even out that way as well. My point was, KT's non-flash team in the same matchups for the most part perform better, overall, thus far than every other team's back up without their aces. Stumbling in Winner's league, maybe, but they kind of have a comfort zone when Flash can singlehandedly beat every good player on the #2 team.

KT's got a ridiculous lead because Flash is way better than all the other aces and KT is generally better than all the other teams. If it was all about Flash being the best player then KT would've been in 3rd seed last season behind SKT1 and Oz because he was just as good as those 2 aces -- the best by a lot -- but that's not the case. The New KT is why KT is awesome, Flash is just a New Flash as well.
Remember Violet.
iamho
Profile Joined June 2009
United States3347 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-03-12 03:37:54
March 12 2010 03:36 GMT
#1442
that is pure manipulation of statistics.

1. you have to account for the fact that flash plays at the end of wl matches and pl ace matches, thus giving him the hardest opponents. if flash was gone, kt would be in trouble because they have no solid ace player. whereas woongjin still has free after zero, stx has kal after calm, oz still has hiya after jaedong, etc. if flash wins a match against a top player, you can't just take away +1 game differentials from kt's "record," because that would be assuming kt would still have a 50-50 shot at winning without flash. you would need to take away like 1.8 game differentials for every flash win

2. flash not playing would force kt to give a slot to one of their worse <50% winrate

3. flash winning everything helps team moral and momentum

4. violets sucks excluding one round each season, forgg and stats are only good in one matchup, and luxury sucks 90% of the time

kt is the new hwaseung oz-except flash is better than jaedong and hiya is better than the rest of kt.
dani_caliKorea
Profile Blog Joined November 2009
730 Posts
March 12 2010 03:39 GMT
#1443
KT does not have a solid "2nd" ace though. STX got Kal, Woongjin got Kwanro/Free. MBC has Sea



TwoToneTerran
Profile Joined March 2009
United States8841 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-03-12 04:00:52
March 12 2010 03:41 GMT
#1444
It's not manipulating statistics. KT's non-ace players win more often than other team's non ace players. Not by a lot, though! 1 more than MBC, 4 more than STX and 8 more than Woongjin is FAAAAAR off from the 24 over STX, 20 over MBC, and 29 over Woongjin that they're currently at. That difference is all Flash. KT owes a whooooole lot to Flash but they're still a decent team by all rights.

On March 12 2010 12:39 dani_caliKorea wrote:
KT does not have a solid "2nd" ace though. STX got Kal, Woongjin got Kwanro/Free. MBC has Sea


Depends on what part of the season you're talking about. Violet won 2 ace games and beat strong players otherwise(Against Mind and Leta, Beat Sea in the regular games etc) in R1 where Flash won 3. in WL when Flash got sniped by Skyhigh, Stats picked up after him and beat both Skyhigh and Effort. Lux sniped Zero, Hoejja cleaned up after Khan, etc. KT doesn't have a single secondary ace player, but a lot of different people who can fulfill the role given the players' conditions and which match up it is.

Kind of like Wemade but a little better.
Remember Violet.
Xiphos
Profile Blog Joined July 2009
Canada7507 Posts
March 12 2010 03:45 GMT
#1445
Okay if Flash weren't there to stop Hyuk or Shuttle, KT is dead. KT is the ultimate one man team these days.
2014 - ᕙ( •̀ل͜•́) ϡ Raise your bows brood warriors! ᕙ( •̀ل͜•́) ϡ
TwoToneTerran
Profile Joined March 2009
United States8841 Posts
March 12 2010 03:47 GMT
#1446
If Flash weren't there to stop Hyuk and Shuttle, KT would be 7-2? Maybe 6-3 if you assume his 3kill against Khan is the only reason they won.

Every other team that's doing marginally well has someone who's 3kill/allkilled multiple times.
Remember Violet.
sob3k
Profile Blog Joined August 2009
United States7572 Posts
March 12 2010 03:51 GMT
#1447
Just made this...
[image loading]
In Hungry Hungry Hippos there are no such constraints—one can constantly attempt to collect marbles with one’s hippo, limited only by one’s hippo-levering capabilities.
PiePie
Profile Joined February 2010
United States248 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-03-12 03:55:23
March 12 2010 03:53 GMT
#1448
On March 12 2010 12:41 TwoToneTerran wrote:
It's not manipulating statistics. KT's non-ace players win more often than other team's non ace players. Not by a lot, though! 1 more than MBC, 4 more than STX and 8 more than Woongjin is FAAAAAR off from the 24 over STX, 20 over MBC, and 29 over Woongjin that they're currently at. That difference is all Flash. KT owes a whooooole lot to Flash but they're still a decent team by all rights.

Show nested quote +
On March 12 2010 12:39 dani_caliKorea wrote:
KT does not have a solid "2nd" ace though. STX got Kal, Woongjin got Kwanro/Free. MBC has Sea


Depends on what part of the season you're talking about. Violet won 2 ace games(Against Sea and Leta, so not like he was just picking on weak players) in R1 where Flash won 3. in WL when Flash got sniped by Skyhigh, Stats picked up after him and beat both Skyhigh and Effort. Lux sniped Zero, Hoejja cleaned up after Khan, etc. KT doesn't have a single secondary ace player, but a lot of different people who can fulfill the role given the players' conditions and which match up it is.

Kind of like Wemade but a little better.


KTs non ace players win more than other teams non ace because there isnt a guy called Flash killing everyone (everyone doesn't apply to KT, see where Im going with this?) Flash's wins alone like are greater than some teams combined. Each time he gets a win, someone else gets a loss, its a 2 point difference. +1 for flash -1 for whoever he beat.
RFG- Raging Flash Fangirl
TwoToneTerran
Profile Joined March 2009
United States8841 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-03-12 04:08:46
March 12 2010 03:59 GMT
#1449
That's not a statistical outlier though. That applies for every player with a positive record, and any player who's ever beaten a KT player (M18M!!!!). It's a completely moot point aside from Flash winning instilling morale. I'm sure KT would have a worse record than +9 without Flash, because they probably would've lost a few of those matches where they won 3-1 with Flash, or maybe one of those ace games Flash won where he lost in the regular game (best and hyun), or even one of those 2 ace games where Violet won when Flash won(hite and wemade). Etc etc. But every other team would probably be a little worse without their ace. Think MBC would be at +22 without light getting 3 all kills? Or without Sea winning all their Moonglaive matches in R1 and 2? It'd be a less significant drop than KT losing Flash, but that'd still make them similar to KT because of just how big KT's lead is.


That's not my point though. My point is that, despite Flash being god incarnate, he isn't the sole reason KT is #1. He's the best reason, same thing with Jaedong and Oz in the 08 season, but that's like saying Oz didn't have ForGG and Anytime in 07 when they won, which they did, despite Jaedong being amazing.
Remember Violet.
POWEROUTAGE
Profile Joined February 2010
Singapore884 Posts
March 12 2010 04:03 GMT
#1450
On March 12 2010 12:51 sob3k wrote:
Just made this...
[image loading]


LOL THIS IS AMAZING. Great work!


Anyway, I don't get why people bring up the "without Flash KT sucks" argument. Every team WOULD suck without their ace player. Moreover if you have a player of Flash's calibre not making full use of him is criminal. That said, KT has players who pull their own weight and lend their strength to being the supporting cast, like Luxury, Violet, ForGG and Stats like TTT has mentioned. And the incredible thing is, whenever a player slumps ie. Lux and Violet right now, the others like Stats and ForGG can step up and bear some of the burden. And that is not accounting for the snipers like 815 and Hoejja.
Stats. The new standard bearer of the protoss.
Fx_
Profile Joined April 2008
503 Posts
March 12 2010 10:05 GMT
#1451
On March 11 2010 07:57 7mk wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 11 2010 07:02 Fx_ wrote:
On March 11 2010 03:47 SuperArc wrote:
On March 11 2010 02:49 years wrote:
I actually would like to see Flash loose, not to see him loose, but to see someone else bring the level of play really high up.

This excludes most cheeses, but seems like the man is invulnerable to those too, so seeing a well executed cheese that can catch him off guard would me impressive.


watch Flash games against Jaedong

Skyhigh managed to beat Flash twice in straight up games too.


LOL
compare FlaSh and Skyhigh...
some about their statistics in WL
FlaSh 16-2
Skyhigh 8-9
feel the difference.
SuperArc u are kill me
ROFL


are you dumb?

did he say skyhigh is as good a player as flash?
it was a direct answer to flash being "invulnerable" excluding cheese, so what the fuck is the point of your post

Show nested quote +
On March 11 2010 07:05 dekuschrub wrote:
when flash double SL's next season


then he will sure as hell deserve it


Man? u are fuckin serious
Just relax...
Power is your Intelligence
Fx_
Profile Joined April 2008
503 Posts
March 12 2010 10:34 GMT
#1452
On March 12 2010 13:03 POWEROUTAGE wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 12 2010 12:51 sob3k wrote:
Just made this...
[image loading]


LOL THIS IS AMAZING. Great work!


Anyway, I don't get why people bring up the "without Flash KT sucks" argument. Every team WOULD suck without their ace player. Moreover if you have a player of Flash's calibre not making full use of him is criminal. That said, KT has players who pull their own weight and lend their strength to being the supporting cast, like Luxury, Violet, ForGG and Stats like TTT has mentioned. And the incredible thing is, whenever a player slumps ie. Lux and Violet right now, the others like Stats and ForGG can step up and bear some of the burden. And that is not accounting for the snipers like 815 and Hoejja.


LOL
Power is your Intelligence
Fx_
Profile Joined April 2008
503 Posts
March 12 2010 11:06 GMT
#1453
trapped lurker
ROFL
never seen it before.
Power is your Intelligence
NoobSkills
Profile Joined August 2009
United States1603 Posts
March 12 2010 20:42 GMT
#1454
On March 10 2010 16:26 Carnivorous Sheep wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 10 2010 16:26 NoobSkills wrote:
On March 10 2010 16:25 Carnivorous Sheep wrote:
On March 10 2010 16:24 NoobSkills wrote:
I do believe he did not scan it initially. The 3rd bunker came after scan I believe we'll see in VOD


It did not.


Solid post. Glad you added your 2 cents or proof. GJ


It just showed the VOD were you not watching?


Interesting in his interview he stated exactly what I said happened.

Oh well everyone can be wrong sometimes. But try backing up your argument with facts. Perhaps like saying if you thought he used scan originally before he built the second bunker. Then you wouldn't seem like a dick basically saying. No you're wrong.
Prev 1 71 72 73
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