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On January 25 2010 08:12 DJONES wrote:
Give me a break.
I am so sick of hearing that flash was "mentally off" in game 4.
These guys prepare their strats in practice the week before.
Regardless of his mindset, an overpool against 7 rax gave jaedong the advantage which he never surrendered.
I am a flash fan, and JD looked like the superior player in every game of the series.
If it weren't for some excellent dropship play in game 2, JD would have won 3-0. Power outage or no power outage.
Umm, I'm much more of a Jaedong fan than a Flash fan, and even I think he was off in game 4. He seemed disorganized, distracted, compared to normal. He even GG'd far before the game was actually over.....
Jaedong did look superior in games 1-3, even with the amazing dropship play of Flash, however, it looked like he just rolled over Flash in that 4th game..... It looked like Flash had already given up, right from the beginning of that match.
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I watch tennis and generally the people are generally pretty good to talk with besides the occasional whinge about Nadal's (or really any mainly clay court player) play style and so forth. I figure its because the people who post such complaints aren't filled to the brim with impotent nerdrage that such criticism about a player's playstyle isn't frustrating to read.
Watch football (European), football (American), basketball, baseball hockey, rugby, you name it, this same kind of stuff happens. Hell, I've even seen in in tennis.
I am not looking to piss off anyone or have anyone think I'm stupid but I honestly don't see why everyone is so angry that MBC/Kespa postponed game 4. Within such a controversial situation like that one it would've been so much worse for MBC to just proceed on with game 4 and not listen to parents/coaches. Otherwise, then the coaches/parents would've probably ended up creating an even bigger reaction and thus, the situation could potentially have gotten 10x worse. Imagine if you are a parent, your kid is in the finals, the opponent is given the win, and then the people in charge decided not to listen to what you have to say. If I were the parent, I'd be beyond furious. I just honestly think the right thing for them to do was to listen to what the coaches/parents had to say.
Watch just about any sport and guess what happens - the coach/parent/whatever gets his ass booted immediately if he doesn't zip it and the game continues - that's the more professional way to do it. Making everyone wait for an hour because you can't stand by your decision is absolutely ridiculous.
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On January 25 2010 08:12 DJONES wrote:
Give me a break.
I am so sick of hearing that flash was "mentally off" in game 4.
These guys prepare their strats in practice the week before.
Regardless of his mindset, an overpool against 7 rax gave jaedong the advantage which he never surrendered.
I am a flash fan, and JD looked like the superior player in every game of the series.
If it weren't for some excellent dropship play in game 2, JD would have won 3-0. Power outage or no power outage.
i totally agree with you
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United States1866 Posts
On January 25 2010 08:12 DJONES wrote:
Give me a break.
I am so sick of hearing that flash was "mentally off" in game 4.
These guys prepare their strats in practice the week before.
Regardless of his mindset, an overpool against 7 rax gave jaedong the advantage which he never surrendered.
I am a flash fan, and JD looked like the superior player in every game of the series.
If it weren't for some excellent dropship play in game 2, JD would have won 3-0. Power outage or no power outage.
I absolutely agree that Flash wouldve played 7 rax and Jaedong would've played the amazingly predicted overpool (when I saw that I was just in awe of how good a series player this guy is), and I dont have a doubt in my mind that Jaedong would've taken that game (which is actually a very solid Zerg map with a good opening advantage like that) regardless of Flash's mental state.
However, that being said, Flash did make some bad decisions later on in the game. His decision to attack into 3 sunkens + some lings with a group that he KNOWS could not break that was just poor. Whether or not he did it, he was behind, but a Flash whos on top of his game would never surrender an advantage, he would play as best he could and hope for a slip-up from his opponent, which leads me to believe he was defintely not playing the way we've seen him play in recent TvZ's.
Either way Jaedong didnt slip up, he played Game 4 like an absolute monster, and I think people are definitely overhyping the "mental state" thing (and you might be downplaying it a bit too much)
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That game 4 looked like a C TvZ or something, it didn't really demonstrate skill at all... huh? :S
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Finally had a chance to see the series and feel desperately sorry for both players.
Game 3 was a hopeless spot. Either way, one player was going to get massively screwed over. JD pretty much had the game. Ultras are way too strong in that spot and Flash didn't have to eco to stop him. From what I saw, Flash had 12 more rines coming in at 7 which is nowhere near enough. As Idra said though, it really, really sucked for Flash to lose like that.
Game 4 was just a massive letdown as you could see Flash just wasn't concetrating properly. Props to JD for keeping it together and I'll actually be a little critical of Flash here. Sure it sucks the decision went against him like that, but in a professional environment the mental toughness to percevere through adversity is really important. Flash spat the dummy and JD continued on. Yeah it was harder for Flash, but sometime you need to be able to suck it up and keep going.
WP to Jaedong, it's just such a shame a great triumph like this had to be tarnished.
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I think Jaedong is as much a loser here as Flash in a way; he may have won the series just the same if none of this would have happened (if the power didn't go out, JD would have won game 3, and Flash would be almost equally discouraged going into game 4). But instead of being MSL Champion, he is MSL Champion*. Which really sucks.
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On January 25 2010 05:29 0neder wrote:
^ wow, Flash really fakin' the smile there...
I don't think it was fake.. it was for his opponent, not MBC game.
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First - i like both players but in this final i was supporting flash. i always support the player with less achievements in games like these.
I believe JD was better prepared and motivated for this final. Even i don't want to admit it JD would have won the title under any circumstances. There is no doubt that both players \and all spectators\ became victims of this blackout - flash for being deprived of the right of fighting for the win in game 3 and JD for taking a title he deserves but would never receive the proper approval from the BW community. The worst of all is the feeling in all fans of being robbed of the most anticipated final ever.
Like one great musician sings in his song “but life still goes on…”
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On January 25 2010 15:39 Atrioc wrote:Show nested quote +On January 25 2010 08:12 DJONES wrote:
Give me a break.
I am so sick of hearing that flash was "mentally off" in game 4.
These guys prepare their strats in practice the week before.
Regardless of his mindset, an overpool against 7 rax gave jaedong the advantage which he never surrendered.
I am a flash fan, and JD looked like the superior player in every game of the series.
If it weren't for some excellent dropship play in game 2, JD would have won 3-0. Power outage or no power outage. I absolutely agree that Flash wouldve played 7 rax and Jaedong would've played the amazingly predicted overpool (when I saw that I was just in awe of how good a series player this guy is), and I dont have a doubt in my mind that Jaedong would've taken that game (which is actually a very solid Zerg map with a good opening advantage like that) regardless of Flash's mental state. However, that being said, Flash did make some bad decisions later on in the game. His decision to attack into 3 sunkens + some lings with a group that he KNOWS could not break that was just poor. Whether or not he did it, he was behind, but a Flash whos on top of his game would never surrender an advantage, he would play as best he could and hope for a slip-up from his opponent, which leads me to believe he was defintely not playing the way we've seen him play in recent TvZ's. Either way Jaedong didnt slip up, he played Game 4 like an absolute monster, and I think people are definitely overhyping the "mental state" thing (and you might be downplaying it a bit too much)
[Attempt to have a serious discussion incoming]
First, a disclaimer that I'm not a good SC player, and I'm going off memory of G4.
What was Flash supposed to do immediately after that opening (i.e., just before he built that second rax)? He was behind and had no wall - surely his only option was to go for a sunken bust, and hence the second rax?
Then, at the point where he started massing in front of the sunks. He was falling further behind on eco, and his options were basically either wait for reinforcements, try to pull back and take his nat, or go for the sunken bust ASAP.
Since he was on 1 base and (IIRC) not even building his nat CC, pulling back and containing himself while behind in eco sounds like a terrible idea. Similarly waiting for reinforcements would have been worse than just going in since Jaedong could reinforce faster than him.
Which leaves going for the sunken bust on 1 medic (which he must have known had like a 1% shot of success) as the least bad of 3 terrible options, surely?
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On January 25 2010 20:45 dmfg wrote:Show nested quote +On January 25 2010 15:39 Atrioc wrote:On January 25 2010 08:12 DJONES wrote:
Give me a break.
I am so sick of hearing that flash was "mentally off" in game 4.
These guys prepare their strats in practice the week before.
Regardless of his mindset, an overpool against 7 rax gave jaedong the advantage which he never surrendered.
I am a flash fan, and JD looked like the superior player in every game of the series.
If it weren't for some excellent dropship play in game 2, JD would have won 3-0. Power outage or no power outage. I absolutely agree that Flash wouldve played 7 rax and Jaedong would've played the amazingly predicted overpool (when I saw that I was just in awe of how good a series player this guy is), and I dont have a doubt in my mind that Jaedong would've taken that game (which is actually a very solid Zerg map with a good opening advantage like that) regardless of Flash's mental state. However, that being said, Flash did make some bad decisions later on in the game. His decision to attack into 3 sunkens + some lings with a group that he KNOWS could not break that was just poor. Whether or not he did it, he was behind, but a Flash whos on top of his game would never surrender an advantage, he would play as best he could and hope for a slip-up from his opponent, which leads me to believe he was defintely not playing the way we've seen him play in recent TvZ's. Either way Jaedong didnt slip up, he played Game 4 like an absolute monster, and I think people are definitely overhyping the "mental state" thing (and you might be downplaying it a bit too much) [Attempt to have a serious discussion incoming] First, a disclaimer that I'm not a good SC player, and I'm going off memory of G4. What was Flash supposed to do immediately after that opening (i.e., just before he built that second rax)? He was behind and had no wall - surely his only option was to go for a sunken bust, and hence the second rax? Then, at the point where he started massing in front of the sunks. He was falling further behind on eco, and his options were basically either wait for reinforcements, try to pull back and take his nat, or go for the sunken bust ASAP. Since he was on 1 base and (IIRC) not even building his nat CC, pulling back and containing himself while behind in eco sounds like a terrible idea. Similarly waiting for reinforcements would have been worse than just going in since Jaedong could reinforce faster than him. Which leaves going for the sunken bust on 1 medic (which he must have known had like a 1% shot of success) as the least bad of 3 terrible options, surely?
going all-in with SCVs + his marine group would have given him a better chance at victory
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On January 25 2010 12:30 Womwomwom wrote:Show nested quote +On January 25 2010 12:23 StorrZerg wrote:On January 25 2010 12:07 Womwomwom wrote:On January 25 2010 11:04 We Are Here wrote:
you guys are probably making a bigger deal than JaeDong and even flash himself lol. im not happy with the results but no matter how much we bitch and argue nothings going to change Because Starcraft fans are literally children who will bicker and moan to protect the honour of their favourite player. The sheer amount of whinging, fanboyism, and maliciousness produced by the fans is why eSports will always been looked upon as a joke by just about everyone else. and the bicker and moaning doesn't happen with real sports? lol? Not in the style I see on Teamliquid that's for sure. Seriously, the Ro8 OSL LR thread is literally one of the most shameful threads I have ever read on the internet and makes the whole community look retarded. Show nested quote +On January 25 2010 12:27 Stratos_speAr wrote:On January 25 2010 12:07 Womwomwom wrote:On January 25 2010 11:04 We Are Here wrote:
you guys are probably making a bigger deal than JaeDong and even flash himself lol. im not happy with the results but no matter how much we bitch and argue nothings going to change Because Starcraft fans are literally children who will bicker and moan to protect the honour of their favourite player. The sheer amount of whinging, fanboyism, and maliciousness produced by the fans is why eSports will always been looked upon as a joke by just about everyone else. Do you ever watch any real sports? Because they do the exact same shit. I watch tennis and generally the people are generally pretty good to talk with besides the occasional whinge about Nadal's (or really any mainly clay court player) play style and so forth. I figure its because the people who post such complaints aren't filled to the brim with impotent nerdrage that such criticism about a player's playstyle isn't frustrating to read.
You think SC has the worst fans? You should read up a bit more about some football (soccer) fans. Stabbings, beatings, riots, the killing of a player in South America for scoring an own goal, etc. SC fans are pretty harmless in comparison.
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On January 25 2010 11:32 Klive5ive wrote:Show nested quote +On January 25 2010 11:12 Picture wrote:
Obviously Flash might have prepared that 7 rax. But you honestly think the normal Flash would build a second rax? Let a ling slip in his base? Attempt that ridiculous sunken break? He played pretty average in game1 too... it just happens.
Yea, and foreigners usually look pretty "crappy" against koreans. JD looked pretty "average" in his OSL games against Flash.
Everybody makes mistakes even jaedong/flash. Even if that outage hadn't happened and he did what he did it probably would have happened if he planned it like that. But you will never know nor will I no point in even arguing about that.
These arent common micro or macro slips (And Flash rarely makes those anyways). These are critical mistakes that even a D+ player will not make.
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On January 25 2010 15:39 Atrioc wrote:Show nested quote +On January 25 2010 08:12 DJONES wrote:
Give me a break.
I am so sick of hearing that flash was "mentally off" in game 4.
These guys prepare their strats in practice the week before.
Regardless of his mindset, an overpool against 7 rax gave jaedong the advantage which he never surrendered.
I am a flash fan, and JD looked like the superior player in every game of the series.
If it weren't for some excellent dropship play in game 2, JD would have won 3-0. Power outage or no power outage. I absolutely agree that Flash wouldve played 7 rax and Jaedong would've played the amazingly predicted overpool (when I saw that I was just in awe of how good a series player this guy is), and I dont have a doubt in my mind that Jaedong would've taken that game (which is actually a very solid Zerg map with a good opening advantage like that) regardless of Flash's mental state. However, that being said, Flash did make some bad decisions later on in the game. His decision to attack into 3 sunkens + some lings with a group that he KNOWS could not break that was just poor. Whether or not he did it, he was behind, but a Flash whos on top of his game would never surrender an advantage, he would play as best he could and hope for a slip-up from his opponent, which leads me to believe he was defintely not playing the way we've seen him play in recent TvZ's. Either way Jaedong didnt slip up, he played Game 4 like an absolute monster, and I think people are definitely overhyping the "mental state" thing (and you might be downplaying it a bit too much)
flash looking 'sloppy' has everything to do with the fact that he was playing the greatest player of all time...
people talk like the incident in set 3 affected flash mental state like it is 100%... pfft, only flash himself would know if he got affected by it... and if he did get affected by it, its his fault... as jaedong have said, he was affected as well but overcame it
jaedong read flash like a book in the series, predicted everything perfectly
game1: overpool > 1raxcc
game2: 3hatch/po0l > 1raxcc
game3: 3hatch/pool > 1 raxcc
game4: overpool > 7rax
flash thought he could beat jaedong with just solid play(grave mistake)... it was apparent in the series that jaedong is the superior player of the two power outage or not
again flash looking not so perfect in the series has everything to do with the fact that he was facing the greatest gamer of all time
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On January 26 2010 06:02 lyhb wrote:Show nested quote +On January 25 2010 15:39 Atrioc wrote:On January 25 2010 08:12 DJONES wrote:
Give me a break.
I am so sick of hearing that flash was "mentally off" in game 4.
These guys prepare their strats in practice the week before.
Regardless of his mindset, an overpool against 7 rax gave jaedong the advantage which he never surrendered.
I am a flash fan, and JD looked like the superior player in every game of the series.
If it weren't for some excellent dropship play in game 2, JD would have won 3-0. Power outage or no power outage. I absolutely agree that Flash wouldve played 7 rax and Jaedong would've played the amazingly predicted overpool (when I saw that I was just in awe of how good a series player this guy is), and I dont have a doubt in my mind that Jaedong would've taken that game (which is actually a very solid Zerg map with a good opening advantage like that) regardless of Flash's mental state. However, that being said, Flash did make some bad decisions later on in the game. His decision to attack into 3 sunkens + some lings with a group that he KNOWS could not break that was just poor. Whether or not he did it, he was behind, but a Flash whos on top of his game would never surrender an advantage, he would play as best he could and hope for a slip-up from his opponent, which leads me to believe he was defintely not playing the way we've seen him play in recent TvZ's. Either way Jaedong didnt slip up, he played Game 4 like an absolute monster, and I think people are definitely overhyping the "mental state" thing (and you might be downplaying it a bit too much) flash looking 'sloppy' has everything to do with the fact that he was playing the greatest player of all time... people talk like the incident in set 3 affected flash mental state like it is 100%... pfft, only flash himself would know if he got affected by it... and if he did get affected by it, its his fault... as jaedong have said, he was affected as well but overcame itjaedong read flash like a book in the series, predicted everything perfectly game1: overpool > 1raxcc game2: 3hatch/po0l > 1raxcc game3: 3hatch/pool > 1 raxcc game4: overpool > 7rax flash thought he could beat jaedong with just solid play(grave mistake)... it was apparent in the series that jaedong is the superior player of the two power outage or not again flash looking not so perfect in the series has everything to do with the fact that he was facing the greatest gamer of all time
The rest of your quote is fine and all, but the bolded part is pure bullshit. What the hell did Jaedong have to overcome? The fact that the refs gave him the advantage and that he was watching his opponent in the finals get completely demoralized? Yea, I wouldn't have much of a problem riding that kind of momentum either.
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On January 26 2010 06:48 Stratos_speAr wrote:Show nested quote +On January 26 2010 06:02 lyhb wrote:On January 25 2010 15:39 Atrioc wrote:On January 25 2010 08:12 DJONES wrote:
Give me a break.
I am so sick of hearing that flash was "mentally off" in game 4.
These guys prepare their strats in practice the week before.
Regardless of his mindset, an overpool against 7 rax gave jaedong the advantage which he never surrendered.
I am a flash fan, and JD looked like the superior player in every game of the series.
If it weren't for some excellent dropship play in game 2, JD would have won 3-0. Power outage or no power outage. I absolutely agree that Flash wouldve played 7 rax and Jaedong would've played the amazingly predicted overpool (when I saw that I was just in awe of how good a series player this guy is), and I dont have a doubt in my mind that Jaedong would've taken that game (which is actually a very solid Zerg map with a good opening advantage like that) regardless of Flash's mental state. However, that being said, Flash did make some bad decisions later on in the game. His decision to attack into 3 sunkens + some lings with a group that he KNOWS could not break that was just poor. Whether or not he did it, he was behind, but a Flash whos on top of his game would never surrender an advantage, he would play as best he could and hope for a slip-up from his opponent, which leads me to believe he was defintely not playing the way we've seen him play in recent TvZ's. Either way Jaedong didnt slip up, he played Game 4 like an absolute monster, and I think people are definitely overhyping the "mental state" thing (and you might be downplaying it a bit too much) flash looking 'sloppy' has everything to do with the fact that he was playing the greatest player of all time... people talk like the incident in set 3 affected flash mental state like it is 100%... pfft, only flash himself would know if he got affected by it... and if he did get affected by it, its his fault... as jaedong have said, he was affected as well but overcame itjaedong read flash like a book in the series, predicted everything perfectly game1: overpool > 1raxcc game2: 3hatch/po0l > 1raxcc game3: 3hatch/pool > 1 raxcc game4: overpool > 7rax flash thought he could beat jaedong with just solid play(grave mistake)... it was apparent in the series that jaedong is the superior player of the two power outage or not again flash looking not so perfect in the series has everything to do with the fact that he was facing the greatest gamer of all time The rest of your quote is fine and all, but the bolded part is pure bullshit. What the hell did Jaedong have to overcome? The fact that the refs gave him the advantage and that he was watching his opponent in the finals get completely demoralized? Yea, I wouldn't have much of a problem riding that kind of momentum either.
read his interview after the game... its in broodwar section
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On January 25 2010 15:45 KawaiiRice wrote:
That game 4 looked like a C TvZ or something, it didn't really demonstrate skill at all... huh? :S
Agreed 
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On January 26 2010 06:02 lyhb wrote:Show nested quote +On January 25 2010 15:39 Atrioc wrote:On January 25 2010 08:12 DJONES wrote:
Give me a break.
I am so sick of hearing that flash was "mentally off" in game 4.
These guys prepare their strats in practice the week before.
Regardless of his mindset, an overpool against 7 rax gave jaedong the advantage which he never surrendered.
I am a flash fan, and JD looked like the superior player in every game of the series.
If it weren't for some excellent dropship play in game 2, JD would have won 3-0. Power outage or no power outage. I absolutely agree that Flash wouldve played 7 rax and Jaedong would've played the amazingly predicted overpool (when I saw that I was just in awe of how good a series player this guy is), and I dont have a doubt in my mind that Jaedong would've taken that game (which is actually a very solid Zerg map with a good opening advantage like that) regardless of Flash's mental state. However, that being said, Flash did make some bad decisions later on in the game. His decision to attack into 3 sunkens + some lings with a group that he KNOWS could not break that was just poor. Whether or not he did it, he was behind, but a Flash whos on top of his game would never surrender an advantage, he would play as best he could and hope for a slip-up from his opponent, which leads me to believe he was defintely not playing the way we've seen him play in recent TvZ's. Either way Jaedong didnt slip up, he played Game 4 like an absolute monster, and I think people are definitely overhyping the "mental state" thing (and you might be downplaying it a bit too much) flash looking 'sloppy' has everything to do with the fact that he was playing the greatest player of all time... people talk like the incident in set 3 affected flash mental state like it is 100%... pfft, only flash himself would know if he got affected by it... and if he did get affected by it, its his fault... as jaedong have said, he was affected as well but overcame it jaedong read flash like a book in the series, predicted everything perfectly game1: overpool > 1raxcc game2: 3hatch/po0l > 1raxcc game3: 3hatch/pool > 1 raxcc game4: overpool > 7rax flash thought he could beat jaedong with just solid play(grave mistake)... it was apparent in the series that jaedong is the superior player of the two power outage or not again flash looking not so perfect in the series has everything to do with the fact that he was facing the greatest gamer of all time
In game 1 he 12 pooled and gassed not overpool just thought I would correct you  .
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On January 23 2010 18:44 dl2agon wrote:
lol i'm the liquibet leader? i'm not even good at betting. does no1 care about it..?
Congrats on winning, lol
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EPT
