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On December 25 2009 21:53 MountainDewJunkie wrote:Show nested quote +On December 25 2009 21:50 MuffinDude wrote:On December 25 2009 21:45 MountainDewJunkie wrote:On December 25 2009 21:43 Kazius wrote:
Friends, we've been robbed of epic finals [Flash vs Stork]. Maybe Stork should have like... not lost, or something. Seriously what is it with this stork hate from you. I know not all people like stork, but shine v flash or movie v flash? Really? Do you want to see that over stork v flash? Especially the way stork is playing now? You take such interest in my posts. I'm flattered. No one is giving Shine respect, people just keep saying how great Stork is! Shine won, it was a great series, it should be left at that, but this whole "robbed" shit, this "deserves" shit, is... shit. Not everyone cares about Stork as much as you do.
Its not that I care about stork but its more about that i have to go through a final like jd v yarnc again. I want to c quality sc and i'm probably gonna get crap at this rate. Maybe u like wasting ur time watching crap sc but I don't.
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On December 25 2009 21:41 EtherealDeath wrote:Lol yea... I don't think Movie is getting past the Ro4..fml. Unless he pulls out some anti map skills that is.
It's not impossible for Protoss to win on El Nino, Bisu beat Shine on El-Nino. Movie is a much better PvZ player than Pure, he'll study that map, and study that map good.
New Heartbreak Ridge, I think it's safe to say that corsair/reaver is the best bet for Protoss on that map.
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On December 25 2009 21:50 MuffinDude wrote:Show nested quote +On December 25 2009 21:45 MountainDewJunkie wrote:On December 25 2009 21:43 Kazius wrote:
Friends, we've been robbed of epic finals [Flash vs Stork]. Maybe Stork should have like... not lost, or something. Seriously what is it with this stork hate from you. I know not all people like stork, but shine v flash or movie v flash? Really? Do you want to see that over stork v flash? Especially the way stork is playing now?
He's probably a Flash fan that doesn't trust Flash's skill. Or a Jaedong fan. It's not his day either. Notice how he edited out the statistics and explanations which explain why any other finals is a joke compared to Flash vs. Stork just so he could troll some.
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On December 25 2009 21:57 FireGuyX wrote:Show nested quote +On December 25 2009 21:41 EtherealDeath wrote:Lol yea... I don't think Movie is getting past the Ro4..fml. Unless he pulls out some anti map skills that is. It's not impossible for Protoss to win on El Nino, Bisu beat Shine on El-Nino. Movie is a much better PvZ player than Pure, he'll study that map, and study that map good. New Heartbreak Ridge, I think it's safe to say that corsair/reaver is the best bet for Protoss on that map.
True that, but the fact that protoss rarely wins on that map is not cool. Anyone has a chance at winning at any imba map, but its rather unlikely.
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On December 25 2009 21:48 lFrostmourne wrote:so you're saying in order for shine to prove himself, he can't a-move hydras, he has to let every protoss player FE with no danger from lings, and hes not allowed to use mutalisks Show nested quote +On December 25 2009 21:42 phaleos wrote:
What is this bullshit? Why does Shine keep being a faggot by doing the same extreme mid-game aggression bull shit? And more bullshittily why do Stork and Bisu both fall to this moron zerg with 0 management skill?! What? You said that's skill? Yeah, surely Shine's muta micro is nice, and he's good at a-moving hydras and doing gay zergling run-bys... \But has he convincingly beaten a good player without these?\ He hadn't even had the confident to show us a hive tech win yet. And look at game 2 .vs. Stork, just look how BADLY shine got raped when his mass hydra didn't win the game. This sounds very fan-boyish of me. But Shine is a faggot and I am going to continue hating him until he shows me a convincing win, against a high-level player.... WITH HIVE UNITS!!!!!
I'm thinking that still wouldn't be enough
didn't he pick off 2 off of stork's sairs? The mutas really didn't look planned, but he was in a good situation to use them and he did.
Also, stork should have figured out that his backdoor was being mined sooner (from his scout, saw only 8 drones mining, pool building, and overlord morphing), and modified his early cannon placement to defend it better.
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I also want to point out, I think Movie KNOWS that corsair/reaver is the only option against Zergs on HBR, than he will tech to Zealots/Goons/Templars if gets into late game like he did against Zero.
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On December 25 2009 22:00 FireGuyX wrote:
I also want to point out, I think Movie KNOWS that corsair/reaver is the only option against Zergs in HBR, than he will tech to Zealots/Goons/Templars if gets into late game like he did against Zero.
I don't trust movie's sair reaver though. He showed poor shuttle micro in his game today.
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Hey man, you can watch that Flash vs Stork game over and over again and pretend it's the finals, since you're so unhappy with today's results.
You know, I remember last season, some kid had an unstoppable ZvZ, destroyed Effort, breezed into the semifinals of the MSL, and all that. Then he lost to some punk... what was his name... eh..
Now Flash has an unstoppable TvZ... destroyed Jaedong, to advance the the EVER semis. Now who is his next opponent... oh, it's that same punk... the next OSL champion, Clam Calm, that's who ^^
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Vatican City State19 Posts
On December 25 2009 21:42 phaleos wrote:
What is this bullshit? Why does Shine keep being a faggot by doing the same extreme mid-game aggression bull shit? And more bullshittily why do Stork and Bisu both fall to this moron zerg with 0 management skill?! What? You said that's skill? Yeah, surely Shine's muta micro is nice, and he's good at a-moving hydras and doing gay zergling run-bys... \But has he convincingly beaten a good player without these?\ He hadn't even had the confident to show us a hive tech win yet. And look at game 2 .vs. Stork, just look how BADLY shine got raped when his mass hydra didn't win the game. This sounds very fan-boyish of me. But Shine is a faggot and I am going to continue hating him until he shows me a convincing win, against a high-level player.... WITH HIVE UNITS!!!!!
Yeah, but the problem is, if shine wins with hive units, everybody just gonna spam "pvz imba" stuff
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To be fair, Movie was so far ahead, he probably could have suicided reaver/shuttles non-stop into scourges and still won the game. Maybe he knew that. Or maybe he was having an off day.
Previous instances of Movie reaver usage have been awesome.
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On December 25 2009 22:01 MuffinDude wrote:Show nested quote +On December 25 2009 22:00 FireGuyX wrote:
I also want to point out, I think Movie KNOWS that corsair/reaver is the only option against Zergs in HBR, than he will tech to Zealots/Goons/Templars if gets into late game like he did against Zero. I don't trust movie's sair reaver though. He showed poor shuttle micro in his game today.
Movie's shuttle micro is one of the best, he just got in a bad position against the Mutalisks, but he still won the match. Also when he played against Zero on HBR, Movie managed to outmaneuver the scourges with his shuttle. Movie's micro is better than Stork's.
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On December 25 2009 21:39 lone_hydra wrote:Show nested quote +On December 25 2009 21:29 Draffut wrote:On December 25 2009 21:23 cz wrote:On December 25 2009 21:22 Draffut wrote:On December 25 2009 21:19 We Are Here wrote:On December 25 2009 21:16 TheAntZ wrote:On December 25 2009 21:14 Draffut wrote:On December 25 2009 21:11 RowdierBob wrote:
People are going to hate on Shine a lot, but he's a very impressive player.
He's so aggressive, and if you make the slightest mistake he's all over you like spots on grandma. No, no he isn't. All he knows how to do is muta micro. What else did he do in that match that was even remotely notable? a move hydras? exploit the map imbalance against toss? impressive at doing gay runby tactics, amoving mutas, and amoving hydras after, sure. There was no part of that game that any B team zerg could not replicate. then isnt that storks fault for being outplayed by a "b-class" zerg? That's like saying it's a professional boxers fault for being shot in the face with a gun. I mean, he is a professional fighter, if he loses any confrontation it must be his own fault. Man you are dumb. You equate Shine's play with a boxer getting shot and losing a fight? Because one of them is clearly within the rules and the other isn't. Of course, one has a large, clear, inherent advantage outside the realm of their own skill built into the match from the start. Wow cz, learn some english. I love Stork but this hate represents whats wrong with the internets. Before you complain, ask urself is a zerg you like did the same things Shine did, is it smart or gay?
wtf are you talking about
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Jesus Christ Shine's getting shit loads of flack. It's gotta suck to be an average Zerg these days (as opposed to Jaedong, Calm, etc.).
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This was a pretty awesome Ro8 though. . . all in all.
Jaedong and Flash faced off. The crowd could stop from screaming! No matter the results, it was great seeing them play.
Pure and Calm played against each other. Pure that played so impressively against Zero and Calm, current MSL champ. Great potential here as well.
Zero vs. Movie was the best set of the night. The last game on New Heart Break Ridge should be remembered in this time of PvZ imba talk. Movie pulling that set off was just amazing. The second game is tied for the game of the night.
Shine vs. Stork - A lot has been said about this game, so I'll keep it short. Set 2 was great.
All in all - This was a great night of Starcraft. I've been glued to the screen for 3hrs! I understand a lot of people are heartbroken over the results though. It is hard to watch a favorite drop out of a league (See you in the SPL Zero)
Movie, take this home.
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On December 25 2009 21:34 blue_arrow wrote:
btw some of you ppl need to get off other ppls asses for being 'disrespectful' and 'so-and-so fans'. It's a fucking damned live report thread and people will get excited and show emotions and anger and raging joy.
Not everybody is all like "Oh dear, he lost; such a little misfortune! Ah well, everything is still jolly good." after their favorite player loses. SC would be fucking dead and nobody would be here except you fantastically exciting people if everybody showed composure and respect and good manners after an intense game involving their favorite player losing in a frustrating manner.
Sadly, it seems to me that some people here are more excited over some other dudes excited comments on the game rather than the game itself.
Way to create a false dichotomy. Nobody is saying passion is a bad thing, what we (few) are complaining about is a post that is just pure F-words in capitals, a caps lock profanity and n-word laced post, etc. That would beg insta perma-ban for ppl with <500 posts or so.
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On December 25 2009 22:03 MountainDewJunkie wrote:
Hey man, you can watch that Flash vs Stork game over and over again and pretend it's the finals, since you're so unhappy with today's results.
You know, I remember last season, some kid had an unstoppable ZvZ, destroyed Effort, breezed into the semifinals of the MSL, and all that. Then he lost to some punk... what was his name... eh..
Now Flash has an unstoppable TvZ... destroyed Jaedong, to advance the the EVER semis. Now who is his next opponent... oh, it's that same punk... the next OSL champion, Clam Calm, that's who ^^
if ur talking about calm who beat effort, he didn't lose to anyone in msl. But seriously with way flash is playing right now, calm has no chance, especially since calm is in a mini slump right now.
On December 25 2009 22:04 FireGuyX wrote:Show nested quote +On December 25 2009 22:01 MuffinDude wrote:On December 25 2009 22:00 FireGuyX wrote:
I also want to point out, I think Movie KNOWS that corsair/reaver is the only option against Zergs in HBR, than he will tech to Zealots/Goons/Templars if gets into late game like he did against Zero. I don't trust movie's sair reaver though. He showed poor shuttle micro in his game today. Movie's shuttle micro is one of the best, he just got in a bad position against the Mutalisks, but he still won the match. Also when he played against Zero on HBR, Movie managed to outmaneuver the scourges with his shuttle. Movie's micro is better than Stork's.
Maybe its good, but theres no way its better than stork's. He did win even with bad positioning, but its his fault for being in the bad position not once, but twice, and him winning after saccing couple shuttle isn't the point here. I want to see him win with it, not using it to quickly finish off the opponent.
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On December 25 2009 21:51 lFrostmourne wrote:how would you argue about game 1 vs stork then? stork had all the advantages early game: his probe got a drone kill and he got away with making only 1 cannon. even stork said he didnt know why he lost after playing perfectly in the follow-up interview. without cheese or any flashy tactics, shine beat stork straight up in this bo3 so at least give him some credit. Show nested quote +On December 25 2009 21:46 StorkHwaiting wrote:On December 25 2009 21:33 Chen wrote:On December 25 2009 21:27 Gryffindor_us wrote:
So, I'm curious what it would take for Shine to gain at least a street urchin's respect from some of you. He didn't 4 pool Stork 3 games in a row. He was in a very difficult group and advanced. Then he beat Stork 2-1. It wasn't as if Stork utterly destroyed him in game two. He won, yeah but he wasn't steamrolled. Yeah, it sucks to have your favorite player or a potential future matchup spoiled because someone you don't necessarily like beat your player. Stork isn't going anywhere guys. And what will you say if Shine wins the OSL? Sure it could be a Sync fluke but let it play out before you judge so harshly. Play impressively for once? Not rely on A-moving units? Showing off a nice new build? Displaying good lategame management/control? Winning a game through something other than mass muta or mass hydra? Plus, wth are you talking about stork not going anywhere, hes basically into the finals, (Movie's PvP is average-slightly above average) and he just beat Flash convincingly rather recently. LoL. This is why Shine does not have my respect and why Stork utterly destroyed him in Game 2. In game 2, he tried for mass hydra spamming on 3 base with a fast doom drop to avoid the cannons. It was an all-in because he knew Stork was taking his third and did not a single thing to stop it. He tried to go for the timing window when the nexus/cannons are just warping in so basically Stork's got a non-operational third rather than 10 more zealots. It got raped. For the rest of the game, Shine played so utterly generic because he had no other choice. The reason JD is respected is because he does things that are outside the realm of what's normal. He doesn't win on basic racial or map advantages. He wins AGAINST odds. JD will be down by a lot and then he'll claw his way back in with amazing scourge micro, really efficient ling usage, really smart drops, etc. Shine on the other hand, found the need to spend minerals making sunkens AND spores at all of his expos because he didn't have enough trust in his own multitask to use OLs and scourges to defend his shit. This is why he can't ever come back from a disadvantage. Shine got burrow and OL speed + drop, yet never had a single smart burrow ambush vs shuttles nor did he ever have an intelligent drop. He even managed to lose 9 drones to a DT, when he could have burrowed them. And when he saw them dying, instead of burrowing, he tried to run and lost 2 more. Shine could not even rely on scourge micro to snipe obs while using his muta to snipe templars. Instead, Shine stood at the bridge and used his mutas and a ton of OLs to snipe obs. His mutas got drilled by goons, he lost a bunch of OL's every time he brought them to detect, and all he did was delay the inevitable. Not one of these moves are a "skill" move that use superior control/judgment to secure an advantage. This is why Shine sucks. The only time Shine wins is when he secures the basic early game advantages that ALL zergs have vs protoss until storm is done and there are enough dragoons/corsair to babysit the templars. If Shine doesn't win or secure a tremendous advantage before this point in time, he will never ever win a game. It's really a simple concept and it's what many others have consistently said. Shine is not a player that stands out in any way. He relies on the basic advantages of his race, nothing more. The moment ZvP's inherent advantage got taken away, Shine was helpless.
Shine went fast mutas to hit a timing window where Stork did not have enough money to put cannons up at all his expos. Shine then found the expo not cannoned and raped the probes there. Stork scrambled to protect that expo with his army but had massive delays due to the way the map is set up. Shine then made more mutas so he had enough to take out even a cannoned expo. The rest of the game was Shine running back and forth between Stork's expos, raping econ for almost no losses.
Like I said before, all of Shine's strategies revolve around securing a ridiculous advantage before Protoss can move out. Protoss can't move out until they have HT/goon/zeal mass which takes a very long time and lets Zerg have a wide array of things they can do. P at this point have two options, sair/reaver and zeal/archon push. And the zeal/archon push is mostly obsolete now due to Zergs learning to sim-city.
Pretty easy to stop a player when you know they only have one strat. Snipe a few corsairs and it's GG.
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On December 25 2009 22:07 MuffinDude wrote:Show nested quote +On December 25 2009 22:03 MountainDewJunkie wrote:
Hey man, you can watch that Flash vs Stork game over and over again and pretend it's the finals, since you're so unhappy with today's results.
You know, I remember last season, some kid had an unstoppable ZvZ, destroyed Effort, breezed into the semifinals of the MSL, and all that. Then he lost to some punk... what was his name... eh..
Now Flash has an unstoppable TvZ... destroyed Jaedong, to advance the the EVER semis. Now who is his next opponent... oh, it's that same punk... the next OSL champion, Clam Calm, that's who ^^ if ur talking about calm who beat effort, he didn't lose to anyone in msl. But seriously with way flash is playing right now, calm has no chance, especially since calm is in a mini slump right now.
Look at Calm's December stats, his mini-slump is long over
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On December 25 2009 22:08 SuperArc wrote:Show nested quote +On December 25 2009 22:07 MuffinDude wrote:On December 25 2009 22:03 MountainDewJunkie wrote:
Hey man, you can watch that Flash vs Stork game over and over again and pretend it's the finals, since you're so unhappy with today's results.
You know, I remember last season, some kid had an unstoppable ZvZ, destroyed Effort, breezed into the semifinals of the MSL, and all that. Then he lost to some punk... what was his name... eh..
Now Flash has an unstoppable TvZ... destroyed Jaedong, to advance the the EVER semis. Now who is his next opponent... oh, it's that same punk... the next OSL champion, Clam Calm, that's who ^^ if ur talking about calm who beat effort, he didn't lose to anyone in msl. But seriously with way flash is playing right now, calm has no chance, especially since calm is in a mini slump right now. Look at Calm's December stats, his mini-slump is long over
Uh... Good win streak, buuuuuut its all B-teamers with couple good wins over few good people. Pure is good, but you have to admit that hes past his prime a long time ago. The only really good win i see is against zero. And his vt is still untested.
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What a horrible thread. Teamliquid LR is to shit again, I can still remember people being banned for much, much less.
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EPT
