Poll: Who will win most dominantly? (Vote): Jaedong (Vote): Movie (Vote): Pure (Vote): ZerO (Vote): Calm (Vote): Shine (Vote): Stork (Vote): Kwanro
Poll: Who are you rooting for? (Vote): The Tyrant- Lee "Jaedong" Jae Dong (Vote): The Iron Reaver- Jin "Movie" Young Hwa (Vote): The Suave Toss- Park "Pure" Sae Jung (Vote): The Little Prince- Kim "ZerO" Myung Woon (Vote): The Brain Zerg- Kim "Calm" Yoon Hwan (Vote): The Typhoon Zerg- Lee "Shine" Young Han (Vote): The Commander- Song "Stork" Byung Goo (Vote): Pikachu- Han "Kwanro" Sang Bong
Poll: Most exciting matchup? (Vote): Jaedong versus Movie (Vote): Pure versus ZerO (Vote): Calm versus Shine (Vote): Stork versus Kwanro
I wonder how much practice either Movie or JD are putting into this.
JD probably doesn't really care about his seed out of the group while someone like Movie, who isn't used to getting far in SLs, might take this more seriously.
Either way since it's ZvP JD should be a huge fav.
Shine v Calm will be very interesting. My bet is on Calm failing after doing so well last time out.
Edit: Movie is doing a PvZ in the PL tonight too so he only has to practice for one MU while JD has to practice for ZvZ and ZvP (if he chooses to).
Why do people think Movie vs Jaedong would be good? They both qualified for the Ro8 already. And they both have PL games today. I'd be quite surprised if either cared to practice coming into this game.
Anyway, rooting for Pure and Stork for the sake of less ZvZs in this OSL.
On December 09 2009 10:20 baubo wrote: Why do people think Movie vs Jaedong would be good? They both qualified for the Ro8 already. And they both have PL games today. I'd be quite surprised if either cared to practice coming into this game.
Anyway, rooting for Pure and Stork for the sake of less ZvZs in this OSL.
I'd typically root for Pure, but I want the Red Sniper to have another shot at the OSL. So therefore, I'm gonna cheer for Zero this one day only.
While I don't like having too many zergs as well, I can't back against ZerO. His play has been through the roof recently and has probably overtaken Calm for the spot of No. 2 zerg.
Hoping for Movie, Calm and Stork wins in the other ones.
Movie and Jaedong is really going to be interesting. They have no reason to play it safe so we are gonna see some intense action and cool strategies(Theoretically)
OR it can all go down to hell with both of them being to lazy to put on a show
On December 09 2009 11:05 supaultramega1337guy wrote: While I don't like having too many zergs as well, I can't back against ZerO. His play has been through the roof recently and has probably overtaken Calm for the spot of No. 2 zerg.
Hoping for Movie, Calm and Stork wins in the other ones.
correction
jaedong > zero > effort > calm is the order for zerg
On December 09 2009 11:05 supaultramega1337guy wrote: While I don't like having too many zergs as well, I can't back against ZerO. His play has been through the roof recently and has probably overtaken Calm for the spot of No. 2 zerg.
Hoping for Movie, Calm and Stork wins in the other ones.
correction
jaedong > zero > effort > calm is the order for zerg
wait, wut? lol
the only thing i can agree with you here is that jaedong leads the pack
On December 09 2009 12:16 AzureEye wrote: Top 5 Zergs imo (overall skill over recent performance) 1. Jaedong 2. Calm 3. Effort 4. Zero 5. Luxury
Calm over Effort in SKILL? Calm's been really average for most of his career tbh, Effort is basically a rookie(hes going to win that rookie of the year award unanimously) with 60+% in all MU's. oh, and Calm is called the brain Zerg cause he wins on smarts rather than mechanics
Zero is way up there on the concept of "overall skill" and has been for a while. His problems in the past were with inconsistency, which appears to be behind him at this point.
On December 09 2009 14:19 Jaksiel wrote: Zero is way up there on the concept of "overall skill" and has been for a while. His problems in the past were with inconsistency, which appears to be behind him at this point.
Go Woongjin Zergs!
His matchlist is the epitome of streakiness. Wins followed by a lot of losses now by a ton of wins. If he keeps this up and gets far in a league, I'll see it otherwise.
On December 09 2009 14:19 Jaksiel wrote: Zero is way up there on the concept of "overall skill" and has been for a while. His problems in the past were with inconsistency, which appears to be behind him at this point.
Go Woongjin Zergs!
Zero is basically GGPlay with upgrades (and without carpal tunnel). If someone else steps up for Stars they'll be as strong as they were during the Hanbit days.
God why does everyone hate Shine so much. He has sick micro, a cool aggressive style (like Luxury but good) and he has a super manner and respectful attitude. Everyone applauded him in the MSL group selection just for being such a nice and respectful guy.
On December 09 2009 16:54 DoctorHelvetica wrote: God why does everyone hate Shine so much. He has sick micro, a cool aggressive style (like Luxury but good) and he has a super manner and respectful attitude. Everyone applauded him in the MSL group selection just for being such a nice and respectful guy.
On December 09 2009 16:54 DoctorHelvetica wrote: God why does everyone hate Shine so much. He has sick micro, a cool aggressive style (like Luxury but good) and he has a super manner and respectful attitude. Everyone applauded him in the MSL group selection just for being such a nice and respectful guy.
Movie shouldn't feel so bad, it was a meaningless game. Movie is now 3:4 against Jaedong, although if they play against each other in the next round of OSL, Movie definitely has a chance of upsetting Jaedong.
Now if yarnc wins against Hwasin we will have a 3-way tiebreak. If yarnc loses Pure advances as #1 and Zero as #2 (means Zero could play against JD again)
Nooooooo, Zero. Frowns. I don't know whether to hope for a Hwasin win or Yarnc win. In theory you want the Hwasin win so Zero advances to Ro8 guaranteed, but it may actually be better for Zero for the group to go to tiebreaker so he can potentially finish first and make sure he dodges Jaedong.
haha Um Jae Gyung went backstage to ask ZerO how he felt, but ZerO was only smiling. Then Calm, who was together backstage, said "Protoss han-bang is hax"
On December 09 2009 19:43 konadora wrote: haha Um Jae Gyung went backstage to ask ZerO how he felt, but ZerO was only smiling. Then Calm, who was together backstage, said "Protoss han-bang is hax"
On December 09 2009 19:43 konadora wrote: haha Um Jae Gyung went backstage to ask ZerO how he felt, but ZerO was only smiling. Then Calm, who was together backstage, said "Protoss han-bang is hax"
what stream you on kona
i'm streaming on my channel, but i requested it to be removed from OP because i dunno if it'll get laggier.
I really hated Shine until his last game vs special, where he did an incredibly pimp build which made me like him more. However, in his interview he said that the coach created this build, so I'm not sure how much credit I can give him for it
On December 09 2009 19:52 Heimatloser wrote: zero out now?
No, he's 2-1. Though if Yarnc beats Hwasin IIRC, Pure, Zero and Yarnc will have to play a tie breaker. If Hwasin wins through, Zero and Pure are through to the Ro8.
Shine almost falls in that rare gruesome category of depressing progamers that I wish would simply disappear without trace. That category includes go.go and HiyA... Almost there Shine, almost there.
On December 09 2009 20:06 konadora wrote: so what happens now?
Who advances?
Shine and Calm are 2-1 now.
EffOrt is 0-2 and can't advance no matter what. If EffOrt beats fantasy then they are both 1-2 and Shine and Calm advance. If Fantasy beats EffOrt, he'll be 2-1 and there'll be a tiebreak round between Shine/Calm/Fantasy
On December 09 2009 20:10 EvoChamber wrote: Effort in the same position as Flash last OSL, he can't advance but he can still fuck someone else's chances of advancing.
On December 09 2009 20:10 EvoChamber wrote: Effort in the same position as Flash last OSL, he can't advance but he can still fuck someone else's chances of advancing.
means he can 5 pool!
I think there's a good chance of him 4 pooling. He probably won't bother to practice for the match and he doesn't want there to be unnecessary material others can analyze.
On December 09 2009 20:10 EvoChamber wrote: Effort in the same position as Flash last OSL, he can't advance but he can still fuck someone else's chances of advancing.
On December 09 2009 20:10 EvoChamber wrote: Effort in the same position as Flash last OSL, he can't advance but he can still fuck someone else's chances of advancing.
means he can 5 pool!
I think there's a good chance of him 4 pooling. He probably won't bother to practice for the match and he doesn't want there to be unnecessary material others can analyze.
yeah lol
But I really hope he loses so that we can see more Starcraft
I kinda want Calm to advance. I kinda want Shine to advance because he played very good recently. I kinda want Fantasy to advance to have a Terran i hate getting slaughtered in a BO3.
On December 09 2009 20:15 Holgerius wrote: Why would you want Korean commentary when there's Day9?
Not to say I dislike Day[9]'s casts (his casts are fucking amazing) but as a Korean, I prefer to listen to the original Korean commentary :p
Ya, if you understand Korean I bet it's awesome (it's awesome even if you don't understand them ). That Iris vs Jaedong VOD with subtitles is really cool, it seems like they give quite high level analysis.
On December 09 2009 20:10 EvoChamber wrote: Effort in the same position as Flash last OSL, he can't advance but he can still fuck someone else's chances of advancing.
means he can 5 pool!
I think there's a good chance of him 4 pooling. He probably won't bother to practice for the match and he doesn't want there to be unnecessary material others can analyze.
lol its so gay how another player thats not even involved in your match can screw you over by winning or losing -_-- i dont like this part of the OSL lol
Starsense from Stork, puts down 4 cannons at his natural and pulls probes to defend Kwanro's bust. Cannons up ridiculously and is now teching up to H.T. Meanwhile, Kwanro's lair just finished with 2 bases
On November 30 2009 12:27 3clipse wrote: Yes, I've devised a strategy for this. Mass arbiters should allow you to intermittently recall your high templar to the front of your army. Pumping from 3 stargates should do it. Now, in order to get your economy up to snuff for this tacit, I general triple-expand at the start of all my games. The key to getting away with this is building the entirety of your tech and production facilities in your 3rd. This way, the zerg, upon seeing nothing in your main, assumes "oh shit, proxy!". If he uses at least 80% of his drones to make sunkens (as he should fearing a 6+ gate proxy attack), he should be economically crippled enough to be unable to stop your expansions! Later on I like to mind control a drone, build hatcheries all over the map and then give him vision. This can cause him to believe he's expanded many more times than he actually has and damages his economy further. Works especially well vs an opponent of a similar color and/or the elderly. Once you have arbiters out, I advise hallucinating several to combat scourge attacks. In fact, this is probably a better use for your high templar than storm. The symbiotic relationship of templar hallucinating arbiters and arbiters recalling templar to their position is near unbeatable as most zergs will simply leave the game after seeing an army of 30 arbiters, real or otherwise. If they do not, your best strategies are probably name calling, hiding pylons, making disparaging references to your opponent's mother, or dischack. Good luck!
This is a good situation for Flash to be in. If somehow he loses against Type B, he'll have another shot at it since they'll have to play a tie breaker.
basically, he has improved his pvz to be a serious contender for the best pvz in the world by just avoiding all the countless mistakes all the other tosses do all the time. he is just so ahead of everything....
a nice day, pure vs zero was great, calm vs shine was one of the more exciting zvzs and stork vs kwanro literally made me rofl. gg and thx day[9] for casting this!
Jaedong and Movie Advance EffOrt is eliminated for sure. If Fantasy beats EffOrt, Calm/Fantasy/Shine play a tiebreaker round to determine the top 2. If EffOrt wins, Shine and Calm advance. Stork advances. If flash loses to type-b then there will be a tiebreaker round between Flash/Kwanro/type-b, winner advances in 2nd place. Hwasin is eliminated too I think. If Hwasin wins then Zero and Pure advance 100%, if Yarnc wins then there is a tiebreaker between Yarnc/Pure/ZerO to determine top 2.
On December 09 2009 20:48 DoctorHelvetica wrote: Jaedong and Movie Advance EffOrt is eliminated for sure. If Fantasy beats EffOrt, Calm/Fantasy/Shine play a tiebreaker round to determine the top 2. If EffOrt wins, Shine and Calm advance. Stork advances. If flash loses to type-b then there will be a tiebreaker round between Flash/Kwanro/type-b, winner advances in 2nd place. Hwasin is eliminated too I think
On December 09 2009 20:48 DoctorHelvetica wrote: Jaedong and Movie Advance EffOrt is eliminated for sure. If Fantasy beats EffOrt, Calm/Fantasy/Shine play a tiebreaker round to determine the top 2. If EffOrt wins, Shine and Calm advance. Stork advances. If flash loses to type-b then there will be a tiebreaker round between Flash/Kwanro/type-b, winner advances in 2nd place. Hwasin is eliminated too I think. If Hwasin wins then Zero and Pure advance 100%, if Yarnc wins then there is a tiebreaker between Yarnc/Pure/ZerO to determine top 2.
Wow, Stork must've had a lot of pent up frustrations that he just unloaded on Kwanro. Dude was playing like an ass from the moment he defended that first rush. Almost got a scare there for a second because he was fucking around storming his own zealots and stuff.
Still, got to love a guy who can just laugh and curse(or at least it seemed that way) for half a game.
Pure v. Zero was epic! Near flawless play by Pure. Very entertaining. If Type-B wins over Flash on Friday - aside from it snowing in hell - Kwanro, Type-B and Flash will all be on a score of 1-2 and play a tie-breaker for the second place in the group. Anyway, Stork is guaranteed a spot in the Ro8 so GG Birdtoss!
Quick recap Group A - Movie and Jaedong move on, go.go and pusan are out. Group B - Zero and Pure are 2-1, Yarnc 1-1 and Hwasin 0-2. (Hwasin v. Yarnc on friday) Group C - Shine and Calm are 2-1, Fantasy 1-1 and Effort 0-2. (Fantasy v. Effort on friday) Group D - Stork moving on, Flash 1-1, Kwanro 1-2, Type B 0-2. (Flash v. Type-B on friday)
Moving on to the Ro8: Jaedong, Movie, Stork Eliminated: EffOrt, go.go, Pusan, Hwasin
Hmm.. so if Flash manages to lose to type b he isn't eliminated, type-b, kwanro, and Flash have a playoff in that case. That's a little reassuring anyway.
Hwasin and Effort are now officially out of the OSL along with go.go and pusan
Thoughts: I hope Effort does not pull a Flash and ruin fantasy's chances of creating a tiebreaker or 2 zergs will advance form group C.
Even in the unlikely cicumstances tpye-b beats flash, flash will still have 2 zergs to play with in tiebreaker and one of them sucks at zvz while the other can't handle anything other than early game. He should be fine.
Hwasin better pull a Flash and ruin Arnc's chances of tiebreaker. Don't want to have the chance of 2 zergs coming out of group B as well.
I expect random cheese from go.go and pusan. Marine and SCV rush vs cannon rush
Also: Stork is the fucking MAN!!! Stork for gold incoming!
Shine turned in a good performance despite BO advantage against a respectable ZvZer Effort while Pure led an amazing comeback. Good to see that Wemade has the potential to keep it up.
The many faces of Stork are also hilarious. Too bad Stork can't be called the Joker, damn Kal's got that nickname reserved. :[
Damn it. Pure finally beats zero. I'm kind of hoping yarnc wins so we can have a tiebreaker and zero gets another chance to stomp both of these players.
Jaedong isn't underrated. Flash is underrated for sure- I have actually seen people try to make the case that Flash is bad or that he is not innovative.
On December 10 2009 06:01 TDK wrote: JAEDONG and FLASH finals seems more and more likely now. Those two seem invincible
Stork. Still regarded as the best PvT out there, and he was soooo close to taking down Jaedong in WCG. This is Stork's OSL to win.
Amen to that.
Stork HAD that first game at WCG. He killed like a million drones! But it didn't work out for him that time.
Stork is playing awesome now, but I dont want to get too excited. After all, Canata and Hero knocked him and Movie out of the MSL. I really hope Stork goes far. . . He does play his best against S-class players, so the Ro8 will be epic. Cant wait for the Ro8 matches to be announced!!
1. Pure has regained his vZ play... and then some! 2. Stork is becoming more awesome by the day. God, have I longed for a progamer who laughs/smiles during games! 3. Kwanro makes me think of one very harry-potterish word: "Slytherin". To me he looks like the exact mental image I have of a Slytherin-child. Wormy, sneaky, little creature who's all trick and no straight up play.
edit: damn I made a TL post on my bday.. the shame :/
On December 10 2009 14:48 DoctorHelvetica wrote: Jaedong isn't underrated. Flash is underrated for sure- I have actually seen people try to make the case that Flash is bad or that he is not innovative.
On December 10 2009 14:48 DoctorHelvetica wrote: Jaedong isn't underrated. Flash is underrated for sure- I have actually seen people try to make the case that Flash is bad or that he is not innovative.
Which is like saying Jaedong has bad muta micro
im talking about people here in tl in general
We worship the ground Jaedong stands on...it's just that him doing amazing is nothing new, lately. Flash is on an 18 game TvT streak and 11 game TvZ streak lately, so of course he's getting a lot of attention here lately.
Like Doc said, we still get some people who call Flash a 'boring turtle', which makes me think that they must not have watched basically any of his games this season (especially his TvZ).
On December 10 2009 14:48 DoctorHelvetica wrote: Jaedong isn't underrated. Flash is underrated for sure- I have actually seen people try to make the case that Flash is bad or that he is not innovative.
Which is like saying Jaedong has bad muta micro
im talking about people here in tl in general
No, everyone knows Jaedong is still the top zerg and the best player. He's just looking mortal becauser JvZ doesn't exist anymore and that's because of all the zergs catching up to him in ZvZ understanding.
On December 10 2009 14:48 DoctorHelvetica wrote: Jaedong isn't underrated. Flash is underrated for sure- I have actually seen people try to make the case that Flash is bad or that he is not innovative.
Which is like saying Jaedong has bad muta micro
im talking about people here in tl in general
We worship the ground Jaedong stands on...it's just that him doing amazing is nothing new, lately. Flash is on an 18 game TvT streak and 11 game TvZ streak lately, so of course he's getting a lot of attention here lately.
Like Doc said, we still get some people who call Flash a 'boring turtle', which makes me think that they must not have watched basically any of his games this season (especially his TvZ).
imo flashes streak of late isnt legit and should not be regarded the way some people... most of his win streaks are from pl, always matched with b class terrans and zergs... when he faces s class he loses (best/stork)
i mean flash is very good i get that but i dont think he is better than jaedong like people here make it out to be
jaedong beat bisu/stork in b03 and also beat kal/movie 4 s class players... also beat canata a very good tvz'er and stats a very solid pvz'er
jaedong zvz i think is transitioning to a comfort zone with all the new zergs coming into the scene.... once he is done with that, his 'slump' would be over
people say that flash is playing the best sc right now but i beg to differ
On December 10 2009 14:48 DoctorHelvetica wrote: Jaedong isn't underrated. Flash is underrated for sure- I have actually seen people try to make the case that Flash is bad or that he is not innovative.
Which is like saying Jaedong has bad muta micro
im talking about people here in tl in general
We worship the ground Jaedong stands on...it's just that him doing amazing is nothing new, lately. Flash is on an 18 game TvT streak and 11 game TvZ streak lately, so of course he's getting a lot of attention here lately.
Like Doc said, we still get some people who call Flash a 'boring turtle', which makes me think that they must not have watched basically any of his games this season (especially his TvZ).
imo flashes streak of late isnt legit and should not be regarded the way some people... most of his win streaks are from pl, always matched with b class terrans and zergs... when he faces s class he loses (best/stork)
i mean flash is very good i get that but i dont think he is better than jaedong like people here make it out to be
jaedong beat bisu/stork in b03 and also beat kal/movie 4 s class players... also beat canata a very good tvz'er and stats a very solid pvz'er
jaedong zvz i think is transitioning to a comfort zone with all the new zergs coming into the scene.... once he is done with that, his 'slump' would be over
people say that flash is playing the best sc right now but i beg to differ
You're right, Flash was playing his best during the 08 Bacchus OSL period. When he went through Bisu 3-2, Jaedong 3-1, then demolished Stork 3-0 in under 50 minutes.
Flash's TvP looks weak because of everyone has adapted to him just like all of the zergs now know as much as Jaedong about ZvZ - that is the power of replays and VODs. There was period where Flash rolled protoss players left and right and was pretty much the only terran who could win on Katrina and Medusa.
Stats is not a good PvZer. There is no proof of his PvZ skill besides the two games against July, which only shows why July is never in STX's proleague lineup not Stat's PvZ skill.
Always matched with B Class terrans and Zergs? You just hate Flash, just admit it. His TvZ streak are against "nobodies" but his TvT streak is very legit. The only terran he hasn't run through is Sea.
On December 10 2009 14:48 DoctorHelvetica wrote: Jaedong isn't underrated. Flash is underrated for sure- I have actually seen people try to make the case that Flash is bad or that he is not innovative.
Which is like saying Jaedong has bad muta micro
im talking about people here in tl in general
We worship the ground Jaedong stands on...it's just that him doing amazing is nothing new, lately. Flash is on an 18 game TvT streak and 11 game TvZ streak lately, so of course he's getting a lot of attention here lately.
Like Doc said, we still get some people who call Flash a 'boring turtle', which makes me think that they must not have watched basically any of his games this season (especially his TvZ).
imo flashes streak of late isnt legit and should not be regarded the way some people... most of his win streaks are from pl, always matched with b class terrans and zergs... when he faces s class he loses (best/stork)
i mean flash is very good i get that but i dont think he is better than jaedong like people here make it out to be
jaedong beat bisu/stork in b03 and also beat kal/movie 4 s class players... also beat canata a very good tvz'er and stats a very solid pvz'er
jaedong zvz i think is transitioning to a comfort zone with all the new zergs coming into the scene.... once he is done with that, his 'slump' would be over
people say that flash is playing the best sc right now but i beg to differ
You're right, Flash was playing his best during the 08 Bacchus OSL period. When he went through Bisu 3-2, Jaedong 3-1, then demolished Stork 3-0 in under 50 minutes.
Flash's TvP looks weak because of everyone has adapted to him just like all of the zergs now know as much as Jaedong about ZvZ - that is the power of replays and VODs. There was period where Flash rolled protoss players left and right and was pretty much the only terran who could win on Katrina and Medusa.
Stats is not a good PvZer. There is no proof of his PvZ skill besides the two games against July, which only shows why July is never in STX's proleague lineup not Stat's PvZ skill.
Always matched with B Class terrans and Zergs? You just hate Flash, just admit it. His TvZ streak are against "nobodies" but his TvT streak is very legit. The only terran he hasn't run through is Sea.
its not how many games you win or win streaks... its about the quality and substance of the wins
yes reckon bacchus flash is legit adn back then you could argue that flash is better than jaedong/bisu
and stats is a very good pvz'er... the way he dominated july (someone with a very solid zvp [70% i think])... stats is an up and comer... been watching his plays and the guy has potential to be up there
and i dont hate flash tho it may sound like i do. im actually a big fan, have always been even in his 'rainy' days... until he wins againts people in his level or win individual leagues then we can compare him to jd
his tvt wins are legit but as i said i consider terrans right now to be in low (so in a way its not legit? makes sense?)... exept maybe a couple here and there
On December 10 2009 14:48 DoctorHelvetica wrote: Jaedong isn't underrated. Flash is underrated for sure- I have actually seen people try to make the case that Flash is bad or that he is not innovative.
Which is like saying Jaedong has bad muta micro
im talking about people here in tl in general
We worship the ground Jaedong stands on...it's just that him doing amazing is nothing new, lately. Flash is on an 18 game TvT streak and 11 game TvZ streak lately, so of course he's getting a lot of attention here lately.
Like Doc said, we still get some people who call Flash a 'boring turtle', which makes me think that they must not have watched basically any of his games this season (especially his TvZ).
imo flashes streak of late isnt legit and should not be regarded the way some people... most of his win streaks are from pl, always matched with b class terrans and zergs... when he faces s class he loses (best/stork)
i mean flash is very good i get that but i dont think he is better than jaedong like people here make it out to be
jaedong beat bisu/stork in b03 and also beat kal/movie 4 s class players... also beat canata a very good tvz'er and stats a very solid pvz'er
jaedong zvz i think is transitioning to a comfort zone with all the new zergs coming into the scene.... once he is done with that, his 'slump' would be over
people say that flash is playing the best sc right now but i beg to differ
You're right, Flash was playing his best during the 08 Bacchus OSL period. When he went through Bisu 3-2, Jaedong 3-1, then demolished Stork 3-0 in under 50 minutes.
Flash's TvP looks weak because of everyone has adapted to him just like all of the zergs now know as much as Jaedong about ZvZ - that is the power of replays and VODs. There was period where Flash rolled protoss players left and right and was pretty much the only terran who could win on Katrina and Medusa.
Stats is not a good PvZer. There is no proof of his PvZ skill besides the two games against July, which only shows why July is never in STX's proleague lineup not Stat's PvZ skill.
Always matched with B Class terrans and Zergs? You just hate Flash, just admit it. His TvZ streak are against "nobodies" but his TvT streak is very legit. The only terran he hasn't run through is Sea.
its not how many games you win or win streaks... its about the quality and substance of the wins
yes reckon bacchus flash is legit adn back then you could argue that flash is better than jaedong/bisu
and stats is a very good pvz'er... the way he dominated july (someone with a very solid zvp [70% i think])... stats is an up and comer... been watching his plays and the guy has potential to be up there
and i dont hate flash tho it may sound like i do. im actually a big fan, have always been even in his 'rainy' days... until he wins againts people in his level or win individual leagues then we can compare him to jd
his tvt wins are legit but as i said i consider terrans right now to be in low (so in a way its not legit? makes sense?)... exept maybe a couple here and there
Stats generally don't mean crap. July's ZvP was terribad in those two games. Did you even watch those games? Its too early to say Stats has good PvZ.
On December 10 2009 14:48 DoctorHelvetica wrote: Jaedong isn't underrated. Flash is underrated for sure- I have actually seen people try to make the case that Flash is bad or that he is not innovative.
Which is like saying Jaedong has bad muta micro
im talking about people here in tl in general
We worship the ground Jaedong stands on...it's just that him doing amazing is nothing new, lately. Flash is on an 18 game TvT streak and 11 game TvZ streak lately, so of course he's getting a lot of attention here lately.
Like Doc said, we still get some people who call Flash a 'boring turtle', which makes me think that they must not have watched basically any of his games this season (especially his TvZ).
imo flashes streak of late isnt legit and should not be regarded the way some people... most of his win streaks are from pl, always matched with b class terrans and zergs... when he faces s class he loses (best/stork)
i mean flash is very good i get that but i dont think he is better than jaedong like people here make it out to be
jaedong beat bisu/stork in b03 and also beat kal/movie 4 s class players... also beat canata a very good tvz'er and stats a very solid pvz'er
jaedong zvz i think is transitioning to a comfort zone with all the new zergs coming into the scene.... once he is done with that, his 'slump' would be over
people say that flash is playing the best sc right now but i beg to differ
You're right, Flash was playing his best during the 08 Bacchus OSL period. When he went through Bisu 3-2, Jaedong 3-1, then demolished Stork 3-0 in under 50 minutes.
Flash's TvP looks weak because of everyone has adapted to him just like all of the zergs now know as much as Jaedong about ZvZ - that is the power of replays and VODs. There was period where Flash rolled protoss players left and right and was pretty much the only terran who could win on Katrina and Medusa.
Stats is not a good PvZer. There is no proof of his PvZ skill besides the two games against July, which only shows why July is never in STX's proleague lineup not Stat's PvZ skill.
Always matched with B Class terrans and Zergs? You just hate Flash, just admit it. His TvZ streak are against "nobodies" but his TvT streak is very legit. The only terran he hasn't run through is Sea.
its not how many games you win or win streaks... its about the quality and substance of the wins
yes reckon bacchus flash is legit adn back then you could argue that flash is better than jaedong/bisu
and stats is a very good pvz'er... the way he dominated july (someone with a very solid zvp [70% i think])... stats is an up and comer... been watching his plays and the guy has potential to be up there
and i dont hate flash tho it may sound like i do. im actually a big fan, have always been even in his 'rainy' days... until he wins againts people in his level or win individual leagues then we can compare him to jd
his tvt wins are legit but as i said i consider terrans right now to be in low (so in a way its not legit? makes sense?)... exept maybe a couple here and there
Stats generally don't mean crap. July's ZvP was terribad in those two games. Did you even watch those games? Its too early to say Stats has good PvZ.
On December 10 2009 14:48 DoctorHelvetica wrote: Jaedong isn't underrated. Flash is underrated for sure- I have actually seen people try to make the case that Flash is bad or that he is not innovative.
Which is like saying Jaedong has bad muta micro
im talking about people here in tl in general
We worship the ground Jaedong stands on...it's just that him doing amazing is nothing new, lately. Flash is on an 18 game TvT streak and 11 game TvZ streak lately, so of course he's getting a lot of attention here lately.
Like Doc said, we still get some people who call Flash a 'boring turtle', which makes me think that they must not have watched basically any of his games this season (especially his TvZ).
imo flashes streak of late isnt legit and should not be regarded the way some people... most of his win streaks are from pl, always matched with b class terrans and zergs... when he faces s class he loses (best/stork)
i mean flash is very good i get that but i dont think he is better than jaedong like people here make it out to be
jaedong beat bisu/stork in b03 and also beat kal/movie 4 s class players... also beat canata a very good tvz'er and stats a very solid pvz'er
jaedong zvz i think is transitioning to a comfort zone with all the new zergs coming into the scene.... once he is done with that, his 'slump' would be over
people say that flash is playing the best sc right now but i beg to differ
You're right, Flash was playing his best during the 08 Bacchus OSL period. When he went through Bisu 3-2, Jaedong 3-1, then demolished Stork 3-0 in under 50 minutes.
Flash's TvP looks weak because of everyone has adapted to him just like all of the zergs now know as much as Jaedong about ZvZ - that is the power of replays and VODs. There was period where Flash rolled protoss players left and right and was pretty much the only terran who could win on Katrina and Medusa.
Stats is not a good PvZer. There is no proof of his PvZ skill besides the two games against July, which only shows why July is never in STX's proleague lineup not Stat's PvZ skill.
Always matched with B Class terrans and Zergs? You just hate Flash, just admit it. His TvZ streak are against "nobodies" but his TvT streak is very legit. The only terran he hasn't run through is Sea.
its not how many games you win or win streaks... its about the quality and substance of the wins
yes reckon bacchus flash is legit adn back then you could argue that flash is better than jaedong/bisu
and stats is a very good pvz'er... the way he dominated july (someone with a very solid zvp [70% i think])... stats is an up and comer... been watching his plays and the guy has potential to be up there
and i dont hate flash tho it may sound like i do. im actually a big fan, have always been even in his 'rainy' days... until he wins againts people in his level or win individual leagues then we can compare him to jd
his tvt wins are legit but as i said i consider terrans right now to be in low (so in a way its not legit? makes sense?)... exept maybe a couple here and there
Stats generally don't mean crap. July's ZvP was terribad in those two games. Did you even watch those games? Its too early to say Stats has good PvZ.
tru in some cases stats done matter but most of the time it does
and july was not 'terribad' in those games, he just got outplayed
and no matter how you shake it, stats pvz is very solid... it does not really take a long time to average someones level of play, at least not in my case
On December 10 2009 14:48 DoctorHelvetica wrote: Jaedong isn't underrated. Flash is underrated for sure- I have actually seen people try to make the case that Flash is bad or that he is not innovative.
Which is like saying Jaedong has bad muta micro
im talking about people here in tl in general
We worship the ground Jaedong stands on...it's just that him doing amazing is nothing new, lately. Flash is on an 18 game TvT streak and 11 game TvZ streak lately, so of course he's getting a lot of attention here lately.
Like Doc said, we still get some people who call Flash a 'boring turtle', which makes me think that they must not have watched basically any of his games this season (especially his TvZ).
imo flashes streak of late isnt legit and should not be regarded the way some people... most of his win streaks are from pl, always matched with b class terrans and zergs... when he faces s class he loses (best/stork)
i mean flash is very good i get that but i dont think he is better than jaedong like people here make it out to be
jaedong beat bisu/stork in b03 and also beat kal/movie 4 s class players... also beat canata a very good tvz'er and stats a very solid pvz'er
jaedong zvz i think is transitioning to a comfort zone with all the new zergs coming into the scene.... once he is done with that, his 'slump' would be over
people say that flash is playing the best sc right now but i beg to differ
You're right, Flash was playing his best during the 08 Bacchus OSL period. When he went through Bisu 3-2, Jaedong 3-1, then demolished Stork 3-0 in under 50 minutes.
Flash's TvP looks weak because of everyone has adapted to him just like all of the zergs now know as much as Jaedong about ZvZ - that is the power of replays and VODs. There was period where Flash rolled protoss players left and right and was pretty much the only terran who could win on Katrina and Medusa.
Stats is not a good PvZer. There is no proof of his PvZ skill besides the two games against July, which only shows why July is never in STX's proleague lineup not Stat's PvZ skill.
Always matched with B Class terrans and Zergs? You just hate Flash, just admit it. His TvZ streak are against "nobodies" but his TvT streak is very legit. The only terran he hasn't run through is Sea.
its not how many games you win or win streaks... its about the quality and substance of the wins
yes reckon bacchus flash is legit adn back then you could argue that flash is better than jaedong/bisu
and stats is a very good pvz'er... the way he dominated july (someone with a very solid zvp [70% i think])... stats is an up and comer... been watching his plays and the guy has potential to be up there
and i dont hate flash tho it may sound like i do. im actually a big fan, have always been even in his 'rainy' days... until he wins againts people in his level or win individual leagues then we can compare him to jd
his tvt wins are legit but as i said i consider terrans right now to be in low (so in a way its not legit? makes sense?)... exept maybe a couple here and there
Stats generally don't mean crap. July's ZvP was terribad in those two games. Did you even watch those games? Its too early to say Stats has good PvZ.
On December 10 2009 14:48 DoctorHelvetica wrote: Jaedong isn't underrated. Flash is underrated for sure- I have actually seen people try to make the case that Flash is bad or that he is not innovative.
Which is like saying Jaedong has bad muta micro
im talking about people here in tl in general
We worship the ground Jaedong stands on...it's just that him doing amazing is nothing new, lately. Flash is on an 18 game TvT streak and 11 game TvZ streak lately, so of course he's getting a lot of attention here lately.
Like Doc said, we still get some people who call Flash a 'boring turtle', which makes me think that they must not have watched basically any of his games this season (especially his TvZ).
imo flashes streak of late isnt legit and should not be regarded the way some people... most of his win streaks are from pl, always matched with b class terrans and zergs... when he faces s class he loses (best/stork)
i mean flash is very good i get that but i dont think he is better than jaedong like people here make it out to be
jaedong beat bisu/stork in b03 and also beat kal/movie 4 s class players... also beat canata a very good tvz'er and stats a very solid pvz'er
jaedong zvz i think is transitioning to a comfort zone with all the new zergs coming into the scene.... once he is done with that, his 'slump' would be over
people say that flash is playing the best sc right now but i beg to differ
You're right, Flash was playing his best during the 08 Bacchus OSL period. When he went through Bisu 3-2, Jaedong 3-1, then demolished Stork 3-0 in under 50 minutes.
Flash's TvP looks weak because of everyone has adapted to him just like all of the zergs now know as much as Jaedong about ZvZ - that is the power of replays and VODs. There was period where Flash rolled protoss players left and right and was pretty much the only terran who could win on Katrina and Medusa.
Stats is not a good PvZer. There is no proof of his PvZ skill besides the two games against July, which only shows why July is never in STX's proleague lineup not Stat's PvZ skill.
Always matched with B Class terrans and Zergs? You just hate Flash, just admit it. His TvZ streak are against "nobodies" but his TvT streak is very legit. The only terran he hasn't run through is Sea.
its not how many games you win or win streaks... its about the quality and substance of the wins
yes reckon bacchus flash is legit adn back then you could argue that flash is better than jaedong/bisu
and stats is a very good pvz'er... the way he dominated july (someone with a very solid zvp [70% i think])... stats is an up and comer... been watching his plays and the guy has potential to be up there
and i dont hate flash tho it may sound like i do. im actually a big fan, have always been even in his 'rainy' days... until he wins againts people in his level or win individual leagues then we can compare him to jd
his tvt wins are legit but as i said i consider terrans right now to be in low (so in a way its not legit? makes sense?)... exept maybe a couple here and there
Stats generally don't mean crap. July's ZvP was terribad in those two games. Did you even watch those games? Its too early to say Stats has good PvZ.
tru in some cases stats done matter but most of the time it does
and july was not 'terribad' in those games, he just got outplayed
and no matter how you shake it, stats pvz is very solid... it does not really take a long time to average someones level of play, at least not in my case
No it was terribad. Watch it again. July had no idea about the concept of storm dodging and had generally bad decision making: not really using hive tech, not using zerglings, having a hydralisk only army against the late game protoss ball, burning scourges left and right for no reason, very reluctant to expand, etc.
Not saying Stats didn't play solidly but July played so poorly that its a clear explanation why STX doesn't play him in proleague anymore and other zergs like Modesty are getting more play than him.
On December 10 2009 14:48 DoctorHelvetica wrote: Jaedong isn't underrated. Flash is underrated for sure- I have actually seen people try to make the case that Flash is bad or that he is not innovative.
Which is like saying Jaedong has bad muta micro
im talking about people here in tl in general
We worship the ground Jaedong stands on...it's just that him doing amazing is nothing new, lately. Flash is on an 18 game TvT streak and 11 game TvZ streak lately, so of course he's getting a lot of attention here lately.
Like Doc said, we still get some people who call Flash a 'boring turtle', which makes me think that they must not have watched basically any of his games this season (especially his TvZ).
imo flashes streak of late isnt legit and should not be regarded the way some people... most of his win streaks are from pl, always matched with b class terrans and zergs... when he faces s class he loses (best/stork)
i mean flash is very good i get that but i dont think he is better than jaedong like people here make it out to be
jaedong beat bisu/stork in b03 and also beat kal/movie 4 s class players... also beat canata a very good tvz'er and stats a very solid pvz'er
jaedong zvz i think is transitioning to a comfort zone with all the new zergs coming into the scene.... once he is done with that, his 'slump' would be over
people say that flash is playing the best sc right now but i beg to differ
You're right, Flash was playing his best during the 08 Bacchus OSL period. When he went through Bisu 3-2, Jaedong 3-1, then demolished Stork 3-0 in under 50 minutes.
Flash's TvP looks weak because of everyone has adapted to him just like all of the zergs now know as much as Jaedong about ZvZ - that is the power of replays and VODs. There was period where Flash rolled protoss players left and right and was pretty much the only terran who could win on Katrina and Medusa.
Stats is not a good PvZer. There is no proof of his PvZ skill besides the two games against July, which only shows why July is never in STX's proleague lineup not Stat's PvZ skill.
Always matched with B Class terrans and Zergs? You just hate Flash, just admit it. His TvZ streak are against "nobodies" but his TvT streak is very legit. The only terran he hasn't run through is Sea.
its not how many games you win or win streaks... its about the quality and substance of the wins
yes reckon bacchus flash is legit adn back then you could argue that flash is better than jaedong/bisu
and stats is a very good pvz'er... the way he dominated july (someone with a very solid zvp [70% i think])... stats is an up and comer... been watching his plays and the guy has potential to be up there
and i dont hate flash tho it may sound like i do. im actually a big fan, have always been even in his 'rainy' days... until he wins againts people in his level or win individual leagues then we can compare him to jd
his tvt wins are legit but as i said i consider terrans right now to be in low (so in a way its not legit? makes sense?)... exept maybe a couple here and there
Stats generally don't mean crap. July's ZvP was terribad in those two games. Did you even watch those games? Its too early to say Stats has good PvZ.
tru in some cases stats done matter but most of the time it does
and july was not 'terribad' in those games, he just got outplayed
and no matter how you shake it, stats pvz is very solid... it does not really take a long time to average someones level of play, at least not in my case
Wow, seriously? I've read this whole back-and-forth conversation and the things you bring up just show how inexperienced with the scene you are. Bringing up stats no less. Stats good at PvZ? Saying that Canata good at TvZ? Saying that JD beat Bisu and Stork at a chump tournament? I don't know man, it really seems like you're just trying to scrape up every itty bit of proof you can to prove your point, regardless of how convincing or solid the basis is.
In some cases stats don't matter but most of the time it does? In this case it REALLY does not matter. July is washed up now, I wouldn't dare use him as a standard for good PvZ or terribad PvZ.
On December 10 2009 14:48 DoctorHelvetica wrote: Jaedong isn't underrated. Flash is underrated for sure- I have actually seen people try to make the case that Flash is bad or that he is not innovative.
Which is like saying Jaedong has bad muta micro
im talking about people here in tl in general
We worship the ground Jaedong stands on...it's just that him doing amazing is nothing new, lately. Flash is on an 18 game TvT streak and 11 game TvZ streak lately, so of course he's getting a lot of attention here lately.
Like Doc said, we still get some people who call Flash a 'boring turtle', which makes me think that they must not have watched basically any of his games this season (especially his TvZ).
imo flashes streak of late isnt legit and should not be regarded the way some people... most of his win streaks are from pl, always matched with b class terrans and zergs... when he faces s class he loses (best/stork)
i mean flash is very good i get that but i dont think he is better than jaedong like people here make it out to be
jaedong beat bisu/stork in b03 and also beat kal/movie 4 s class players... also beat canata a very good tvz'er and stats a very solid pvz'er
jaedong zvz i think is transitioning to a comfort zone with all the new zergs coming into the scene.... once he is done with that, his 'slump' would be over
people say that flash is playing the best sc right now but i beg to differ
You're right, Flash was playing his best during the 08 Bacchus OSL period. When he went through Bisu 3-2, Jaedong 3-1, then demolished Stork 3-0 in under 50 minutes.
Flash's TvP looks weak because of everyone has adapted to him just like all of the zergs now know as much as Jaedong about ZvZ - that is the power of replays and VODs. There was period where Flash rolled protoss players left and right and was pretty much the only terran who could win on Katrina and Medusa.
Stats is not a good PvZer. There is no proof of his PvZ skill besides the two games against July, which only shows why July is never in STX's proleague lineup not Stat's PvZ skill.
Always matched with B Class terrans and Zergs? You just hate Flash, just admit it. His TvZ streak are against "nobodies" but his TvT streak is very legit. The only terran he hasn't run through is Sea.
its not how many games you win or win streaks... its about the quality and substance of the wins
yes reckon bacchus flash is legit adn back then you could argue that flash is better than jaedong/bisu
and stats is a very good pvz'er... the way he dominated july (someone with a very solid zvp [70% i think])... stats is an up and comer... been watching his plays and the guy has potential to be up there
and i dont hate flash tho it may sound like i do. im actually a big fan, have always been even in his 'rainy' days... until he wins againts people in his level or win individual leagues then we can compare him to jd
his tvt wins are legit but as i said i consider terrans right now to be in low (so in a way its not legit? makes sense?)... exept maybe a couple here and there
Stats generally don't mean crap. July's ZvP was terribad in those two games. Did you even watch those games? Its too early to say Stats has good PvZ.
tru in some cases stats done matter but most of the time it does
and july was not 'terribad' in those games, he just got outplayed
and no matter how you shake it, stats pvz is very solid... it does not really take a long time to average someones level of play, at least not in my case
Wow, seriously? I've read this whole back-and-forth conversation and the things you bring up just show how inexperienced with the scene you are. Bringing up stats no less. Stats good at PvZ? Saying that Canata good at TvZ? Saying that JD beat Bisu and Stork at a chump tournament? I don't know man, it really seems like you're just trying to scrape up every itty bit of proof you can to prove your point, regardless of how convincing or solid the basis is.
In some cases stats don't matter but most of the time it does? In this case it REALLY does not matter. July is washed up now, I wouldn't dare use him as a standard for good PvZ or terribad PvZ.
On December 10 2009 14:48 DoctorHelvetica wrote: Jaedong isn't underrated. Flash is underrated for sure- I have actually seen people try to make the case that Flash is bad or that he is not innovative.
Which is like saying Jaedong has bad muta micro
im talking about people here in tl in general
We worship the ground Jaedong stands on...it's just that him doing amazing is nothing new, lately. Flash is on an 18 game TvT streak and 11 game TvZ streak lately, so of course he's getting a lot of attention here lately.
Like Doc said, we still get some people who call Flash a 'boring turtle', which makes me think that they must not have watched basically any of his games this season (especially his TvZ).
imo flashes streak of late isnt legit and should not be regarded the way some people... most of his win streaks are from pl, always matched with b class terrans and zergs... when he faces s class he loses (best/stork)
i mean flash is very good i get that but i dont think he is better than jaedong like people here make it out to be
jaedong beat bisu/stork in b03 and also beat kal/movie 4 s class players... also beat canata a very good tvz'er and stats a very solid pvz'er
jaedong zvz i think is transitioning to a comfort zone with all the new zergs coming into the scene.... once he is done with that, his 'slump' would be over
people say that flash is playing the best sc right now but i beg to differ
You're right, Flash was playing his best during the 08 Bacchus OSL period. When he went through Bisu 3-2, Jaedong 3-1, then demolished Stork 3-0 in under 50 minutes.
Flash's TvP looks weak because of everyone has adapted to him just like all of the zergs now know as much as Jaedong about ZvZ - that is the power of replays and VODs. There was period where Flash rolled protoss players left and right and was pretty much the only terran who could win on Katrina and Medusa.
Stats is not a good PvZer. There is no proof of his PvZ skill besides the two games against July, which only shows why July is never in STX's proleague lineup not Stat's PvZ skill.
Always matched with B Class terrans and Zergs? You just hate Flash, just admit it. His TvZ streak are against "nobodies" but his TvT streak is very legit. The only terran he hasn't run through is Sea.
its not how many games you win or win streaks... its about the quality and substance of the wins
yes reckon bacchus flash is legit adn back then you could argue that flash is better than jaedong/bisu
and stats is a very good pvz'er... the way he dominated july (someone with a very solid zvp [70% i think])... stats is an up and comer... been watching his plays and the guy has potential to be up there
and i dont hate flash tho it may sound like i do. im actually a big fan, have always been even in his 'rainy' days... until he wins againts people in his level or win individual leagues then we can compare him to jd
his tvt wins are legit but as i said i consider terrans right now to be in low (so in a way its not legit? makes sense?)... exept maybe a couple here and there
Stats generally don't mean crap. July's ZvP was terribad in those two games. Did you even watch those games? Its too early to say Stats has good PvZ.
tru in some cases stats done matter but most of the time it does
and july was not 'terribad' in those games, he just got outplayed
and no matter how you shake it, stats pvz is very solid... it does not really take a long time to average someones level of play, at least not in my case
Wow, seriously? I've read this whole back-and-forth conversation and the things you bring up just show how inexperienced with the scene you are. Bringing up stats no less. Stats good at PvZ? Saying that Canata good at TvZ? Saying that JD beat Bisu and Stork at a chump tournament? I don't know man, it really seems like you're just trying to scrape up every itty bit of proof you can to prove your point, regardless of how convincing or solid the basis is.
In some cases stats don't matter but most of the time it does? In this case it REALLY does not matter. July is washed up now, I wouldn't dare use him as a standard for good PvZ or terribad PvZ.
reply something concrete then we can argue
There's nothing to argue as you have nothing worthwhile to present.
We worship the ground Jaedong stands on...it's just that him doing amazing is nothing new, lately. Flash is on an 18 game TvT streak and 11 game TvZ streak lately, so of course he's getting a lot of attention here lately.
Like Doc said, we still get some people who call Flash a 'boring turtle', which makes me think that they must not have watched basically any of his games this season (especially his TvZ).
imo flashes streak of late isnt legit and should not be regarded the way some people... most of his win streaks are from pl, always matched with b class terrans and zergs... when he faces s class he loses (best/stork)
i mean flash is very good i get that but i dont think he is better than jaedong like people here make it out to be
jaedong beat bisu/stork in b03 and also beat kal/movie 4 s class players... also beat canata a very good tvz'er and stats a very solid pvz'er
jaedong zvz i think is transitioning to a comfort zone with all the new zergs coming into the scene.... once he is done with that, his 'slump' would be over
people say that flash is playing the best sc right now but i beg to differ
You're right, Flash was playing his best during the 08 Bacchus OSL period. When he went through Bisu 3-2, Jaedong 3-1, then demolished Stork 3-0 in under 50 minutes.
Flash's TvP looks weak because of everyone has adapted to him just like all of the zergs now know as much as Jaedong about ZvZ - that is the power of replays and VODs. There was period where Flash rolled protoss players left and right and was pretty much the only terran who could win on Katrina and Medusa.
Stats is not a good PvZer. There is no proof of his PvZ skill besides the two games against July, which only shows why July is never in STX's proleague lineup not Stat's PvZ skill.
Always matched with B Class terrans and Zergs? You just hate Flash, just admit it. His TvZ streak are against "nobodies" but his TvT streak is very legit. The only terran he hasn't run through is Sea.
its not how many games you win or win streaks... its about the quality and substance of the wins
yes reckon bacchus flash is legit adn back then you could argue that flash is better than jaedong/bisu
and stats is a very good pvz'er... the way he dominated july (someone with a very solid zvp [70% i think])... stats is an up and comer... been watching his plays and the guy has potential to be up there
and i dont hate flash tho it may sound like i do. im actually a big fan, have always been even in his 'rainy' days... until he wins againts people in his level or win individual leagues then we can compare him to jd
his tvt wins are legit but as i said i consider terrans right now to be in low (so in a way its not legit? makes sense?)... exept maybe a couple here and there
Stats generally don't mean crap. July's ZvP was terribad in those two games. Did you even watch those games? Its too early to say Stats has good PvZ.
tru in some cases stats done matter but most of the time it does
and july was not 'terribad' in those games, he just got outplayed
and no matter how you shake it, stats pvz is very solid... it does not really take a long time to average someones level of play, at least not in my case
Wow, seriously? I've read this whole back-and-forth conversation and the things you bring up just show how inexperienced with the scene you are. Bringing up stats no less. Stats good at PvZ? Saying that Canata good at TvZ? Saying that JD beat Bisu and Stork at a chump tournament? I don't know man, it really seems like you're just trying to scrape up every itty bit of proof you can to prove your point, regardless of how convincing or solid the basis is.
In some cases stats don't matter but most of the time it does? In this case it REALLY does not matter. July is washed up now, I wouldn't dare use him as a standard for good PvZ or terribad PvZ.
reply something concrete then we can argue
There's nothing to argue as you have nothing worthwhile to present.
you could not present anything in the first place...
EPT![[image loading]](/staff/DoctorHelvetica/livereports/oslday5.png)
![[image loading]](http://www.teamliquid.net/staff/DoctorHelvetica/misc_gfx/lineupimage.png)
Movie < El Niño > 
Jaedong![[image loading]](http://www.teamliquid.net/staff/DoctorHelvetica/misc_gfx/predictionsimage.png)
![[image loading]](http://www.teamliquid.net/staff/DoctorHelvetica/misc_gfx/resultsimage.png)
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