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MURICA15980 Posts
Alright, I'm going to a LAN tournament soon and I don't want to be cheesed by a totally sucky player. Even though it's a double elim with bo3 in every match, I still don't want to cheesed by a newbie. So I want some help with some 9pool builds and such so it's less risky versus less skilled players.
The reason I ask is because I know ilnp did very well in WDT (hint hint, where are you, son? ) with 9pool builds as they are safe, and if you are more skilled player than your opponent, you can still win the game even if it wasn't the best move.
So enough background, I want to know when and why I would do a 9pool. What advantages does it give me? What do I expect the other player to do, and what is his best move? If there is more than 1 really good move, what should I do to be ready for either and "play it safe" or whatever?
I don't want to know just builds as it doesn't make me a better player in the long run. I want a better understanding of the game, and I just found out recently that I know nothing about 9pooling except for early lurker versus terran. I am asking for opinions of people with relatively good experience who know how the game works and know the answers to the questions, although I won't mind the average joe either as it'll help with the discussion.
Versus all races would be best, but if you know more about one match-up for the 9pool, that's fine. And for a zvz 9pool... I just want to know WHY I would want to do that because a zerg who does 12pool + defensive sunk always blocks my 9pool rush and has a bigger economy.
Thanks for all the help as I'm asking for a rather long explination (understanding of the game usually takes more lines than just build orders).
Oh yeah, I wouldn't mind any pool builds before hatch either, like a 12 pool and why I would do that over a 9pool or a 12hatch. etc etc.
Last note: This shouldn't always apply to LT as this lan will use any WGTour map, that why understanding matters to me a lot.
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Valhalla18444 Posts
I'd also like to know, and I'd like to add the question "Why NOT use a 9pool in (insert situation)."
Thanks
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well, i know jack shit, but i will tell you what even i seem to have a handle on, to get things started anyways.
ZVP: a 9pool build (don't know what is best, a zerg player could tell you, what i would do ignorantly and blindly is 9pool 9gas 8lord) will kill almost any kind of unseasoned weak or lazy toss because they will only have 1 zeal when you reach their ramp which you can run past and then annoy the fuck out of them (keep making lings and rally) and maybe get their pylon or gate if not probes, just micro well and don't waste lings unfavorably. if they are at 9 and they 9/10 gate very skillfully and near their choke then it's possible they have more than 1 zeal to block but that's about it, even then the players you speak of shouldn't. they would have to scout you and know to put a zeal with 2 probes positioned perfectly and even then you have a fair chance to get in. so you keep making lings and get ling speed asap, you scout with a drone so you know where he is (lord already checked one spot). just keep making lings, and then hatches with remaining minerals. if he manages to screw up your rush you still are probably fine unless you completely wasted everything in which case a zeal attack is going to kill you. if you think you're screwing him enough but aren't going to kill him with more lings you might try sneaking in some more drones and getting lair asap, as mutas will gg him, and then of course go right back into lings. you have to understand if the toss is actually hurt or not, though, of cou rse..
as for zvz if you 9 pool, assuming they aren't great players, you really have a good chance against any zerg build if you 9 pool speedlings. players below your skill level shoudl very will just die to your lings. you will have them on the defensive and will still be able to run in and take out a couple drones at no losses. if you do, that's gg. and they will probably get overconfident too easily and you, knowing to keep making lings anyways, will be able to take out his only sunken once you hvae speedlings and then it's also gg. another option you may find is building a sunken on his creep away from his sunken and using your ling micro to win. and you'll probably get free wins from zerg trying to expo zvz too. even if you both scout eachother first, only the best players will really play against a known 9pool properly, so ...
as for vs terran, a terran trying to cheese you will be caught with his pants down. and a lazy/inexperienced terran will be owned by speedlings just running in and microing his few marines before he has enough to do anything (he will not have the knowledge or skill to use his scvs adequately to hold ramp vs 9 pool). and like you said, scaring a player like this with early lings probably gives you a free kill on them with lurkers. just make sure you kill his marines and avoid his scvs for the most part, except free kills of mining/fleeing scvs when no marines are shooting you (same concept when rushing with lings against any race or any rush against anyone really).
that's about all i know, not very specific, but maybe i'll incite the rest out of the real zerg players or at least the real bw players. sorry if u already knew everything i said but i figured someone had to say it anyways.
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MURICA15980 Posts
Yeah, not much new for me but at least it reinforced what I was thinking.
What I was looking for though was like what is the situation of the game if my harass doesn't work? How many probes need to die for it to be "worth it" etc. Where to do I go after the 9pool? Because usually I go improvising, sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. But you are 100% correct in the fact that usually if I'm better, I'll win. The only reason I'm asking and looking for help is because I'm not confident with it. If I do a hatch first build that I've been using forever (in zvt for example) then I feel more confident. I'm looking for an understanding of early pool zerg, even if it isn't "good". Knowing how to work off small econs is always a good thing to know.
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Valhalla18444 Posts
Hmm.
Using the 9pool is a great way to control the way the game will play out.
If you see the other player turtling up, It's probably safe to power like mad and tech to whatever you desire. You know he won't attack you soon. If you think you can punch through, by all means send wave after wave of lings at him.
If he seems to just try to win with basic units, I'd throw lings at him while building tech slower, mostly because he won't be able to tech properly with so many lings around.
Just my thought, inaccurate as they may be!
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9 pool ZvZ is most risky because it is so easily countered by 12 pool and how well you can make use of it in other situations depends on your ability, luck, opponents ability, etc.
9 pool ZvT is sort of safe and can be useful in starting the game VERY safely from 12v3 on LT. But the timing after the initial lings is tricky and you will almost never actually benefit from the opening vs a good player(ie, early trick win or even able to heavily swing the game in your favor with harass).
ZvP, 9 pool is something of a mind state. Like in ZvT it usually won't benefit you in that your harass won't do much to a high level player, but it allows you to sort of make the game play out early-game the same every time. In that your opponent will need to have their hold-position zealots blocking the ramp before they can really do anything. Then all you have to do is watch for their next move. A coy Zerg can be devastating with this every time(See little tech and emphasis on Zealots, start sunkens. See Stargate, get den/spore).
The most important thing to remember when using a 9 pool(And this goes for everything Z related really) is to learn how to feel the pressure/flow of the game and know when to power/tech/harass/expand. Generally you have enough money if you do a 9 pool+no speedling build to make a hatch right after the lings hatch... If you did a 9 pool in anticipation for close locations in ZvT(like 12v3 LT) then you can feel free to make the hatch before the lings so it will be built faster because your first 6 lings probably have no chance of trading well for you(ie, opponent being close or doing 1 rax), which means slightly faster larvae and the ability to make a sunken faster.
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Ok build for 9 pool = 9/9 pool, scout with drone, 8/9 drone, 9/9 extractor trick, 10/9 lord. 6 lings when pool is done.
9 pool ZvZ is something you can do, a 12 pool + sunk user will have eco loss too (a sunken = 175 minerals). Just keep pumping drones afterwards and proceed with normal zvz.
9 pool ZvT is only useful in close spots (like 12/3 in LT). If you're far away, it's a waste because he'll have it scouted by the time your lings get to his base and he'll have 2 rine + 4 scv guarding his choke.
If you're really far away, you can't get cheesed. If someone is foolish enough to do a cheese rush anyway, you'll have your drones to fend off the first marine, and by the time his 2nd arrives, you'll have ling + sunk morphing. Don't get speed for lings in ZvT 9 pool because it will severely delay your 2nd hatch.
Now, if you attack with your lings in close spots, and you manage to kill his first rines, keep building lings so you can keep killing his rines and scv's. Rally them to his base (you should have 2nd hatch already now, and 3rd soon morphing). If he somehow survives it with excellent micro, just power drones, and get muta/lurker whatever you desire.
ZvP 9 pool: build = 9/9 pool, send drone for scout, 8/9 drone, 9/9 lord, 9/9 gas, 8/9 drone, get drone on gas, build 6 lings, remove drones from gas when you have 100 gas. Don't bother 9 pooling the protoss if he's far away. If you're really scared of cheese, you can do 12 pool vs protoss too, and get hatch in main afterwards if you're really scared.
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twisted i dont think u answerd his questions. he wants to know what he gains/ loses by doing those builds. not just follow instructions. so why is 9pool, scouting drone, 9lord, 9 gas the way to go vs toss? why is 9pooling in far spots so hopeless? i seen many players that are pretty good lose to these things you say are hopeless, so maybe u are very good? better than top WSL? i dont know who u are so sorry. so sorry.
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If you want to 9 pool because you are afraid of cheesing, then you can be pretty safe with 12 pool too, in all match ups. I find 9 pool very risky because if you dont do any damage you are far behind. Anyway i think everything is a matter of personal style. Try many bo's and keep the one thats better for you.
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Last week I decided to try to learn the answers to those same questions. So, I played 100 games - all 9 pool. I can say one thing for sure: It will be at least 400 more games before I can answer
I see 2 strong benefits. You can usually safe expand with 9 pool, and you put the fear into your opponent early.
The weakness is you need very good unit control, and you need a lot of experience to be able to do determine when to drone and when to make war units. Each is the most troublesome aspect of playing zerg in general, and they are amplified when 9 pooling.
Overall, it is very fun to play because you are always on the razor's edge of extermination. And that is the biggest reason you should use 9-pool.
Here is a short guide by Testie about 9 pool ZvP. I haven't really played this style much. http://amat.sux2bme.com/Testie9pool.txt
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heh 9 pool works really well zvt.. if you wanna learn real good 9 pool strats vs t watch Hiya[3.33] his macro is awsom he usually does a build like 9/9 ol, pool, one drone, build hatch, by the time pool is finished you should have close to 150 min and 3 larva, 6-ling em while you expo :D gl hf
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Netherlands2766 Posts
I just wanna say i think 9 pool is irratating when being a toss. It forces u to make extra zeal before tech and rush is way slower because u cant really leave ur base with first 3 ..
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On December 20 2003 22:57 stimey d okgm fish wrote:
twisted i dont think u answerd his questions. he wants to know what he gains/ loses by doing those builds. not just follow instructions. so why is 9pool, scouting drone, 9lord, 9 gas the way to go vs toss? why is 9pooling in far spots so hopeless? i seen many players that are pretty good lose to these things you say are hopeless, so maybe u are very good? better than top WSL? i dont know who u are so sorry. so sorry.
Basically why you would do 9 pool is because you want to be safe from cheesing. That's pretty obvious. I was just giving him the basics of 9 pool. When you do it is in close spots, when you don't do it is if you're far away. Why you do it, is because you wanna kill him, or you wanna be safe from cheese.
I thought these things were kinda obvious, so I didn't type those out. If you want any indication of my skill, season 3 WSL I ended with 35-15 on #22 or so, beating some good players (won't name them, cuz that might sound arrogant), season 4 WSL I had something like 40-13, don't really remember..
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Netherlands2766 Posts
On December 20 2003 22:57 stimey d okgm fish wrote:
twisted i dont think u answerd his questions. he wants to know what he gains/ loses by doing those builds. not just follow instructions. so why is 9pool, scouting drone, 9lord, 9 gas the way to go vs toss? why is 9pooling in far spots so hopeless? i seen many players that are pretty good lose to these things you say are hopeless, so maybe u are very good? better than top WSL? i dont know who u are so sorry. so sorry.
I think u might wanna value his zerg opninion more than a lot of others that post here  . A Whole lot. No offence to the others, just regarding his skill.
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sorry it's just i've seen reps of better players and they do very different builds than he's mentioning so i'm wondering why he choose that particular build (not the 9 pool part, duhrr), which he still not explain. maybe he dont understand, english not his language?
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MURICA15980 Posts
Thanks for all the feedback.
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On December 21 2003 20:26 stimey d okgm fish wrote:
sorry it's just i've seen reps of better players and they do very different builds than he's mentioning so i'm wondering why he choose that particular build (not the 9 pool part, duhrr), which he still not explain. maybe he dont understand, english not his language?
I like my own builds, I don't copy replays 
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MURICA15980 Posts
I've tried 9pool a few times in ZvT and it seems like the other player don't know how to play versus it if I don't go fast lurkers with 1 base because they can't copy replays. I think I'm liking this. 
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Klogon your going to the LAN in Portland right? Your friend Cory (I knew him as TheLast[Day] online) told me about it. Don't you go to beaverton high school?
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9 pool holds up very nicely against anything, assuming the 9 pooler has superior skill.
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well twisted i believe u, i was just wondering if you compared your builds to other possibilities so you know for a fact they give you want you want most efficiently or not?
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Hmm yea, it's safe, and it's pretty strong.
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MURICA15980 Posts
On December 22 2003 17:20 Commander[SB] wrote:
Klogon your going to the LAN in Portland right? Your friend Cory (I knew him as TheLast[Day] online) told me about it. Don't you go to beaverton high school?
shhhh, I don't wanna have competition now do I?
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MURICA15980 Posts
Hmm, thanks for the help. Its a bit of food for thought, but now I'm wondering when it'd be better to 12 pool... maybe when locations are farther away?
Also been having problems with a turtling tech terran that didn't get hurt by my 9pool and gets tanks on my cliff with wraiths. Best counter is...? Because mutas come to slow to stop the wraiths from killing many overlords and lurkers without ol drop can't stop the tanks.
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If locations are far away, just do the standard 12 hatch 11 pool build. If he bunkerrushes anyway, just use 7 drones and save larva for lings, and rally them to your 2nd hatch. You should be fine, just keep on killing scv that builds bunker, and stop rines from entering. Then it's pretty much win, because he's far behind.
Turtling terran that goes tech, if you 9 pool first, get lair + spire really fast, and get gas as soon as you see he's teching (if you do 3 hatch build, your expand hatch is probably fucked if your natural has a cliff, so get lair first, and pump drones. First you'll have a lot of money, and you wonder if you shouldn't build 3rd hatch, but that will severely hurt your eco as you won't have money to build drones). Don't bother making any sunken+ling, unless you fear vulture. Just get 1 sunk then and block entrance with 6 ling or so. It's also nice to sacrifice a lord to see what tech he's building. If he's smart, he'll build his tech somewhere in his main where an overlord can't see it fast, so just try an awkward route with your lord where you expect his tech to be. Also, if he has 1 fact without addon, you know he's doing either fast m&m drop, or dual port wraith. Just get 2 hydra then or so, and keep pumping drones, and get spire asap. If he goes cloak, get lord speed. Spore at minerals isn't bad either. You can then either get muta, but you won't have much eco. My advice is to just get 7 muta (7 muta kill 1 scv in 1 hit), then work on eco. He will probably get 3 rax m&m after he did wraith, so have a good scout outside his base to see when he's coming out. You need either a lot of sunken or lurker when he comes out with a 3 rax army. If he does that wraith/cliff stuff, just use muta to kill it. You should be fast enough if he went wraith first and tank after with your muta.
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I believe Testie wrote a guide to 9 pooling on the old aeOn) site. Not sure if it's still up or not, but I couldn't stop 9 pooling after reading that :D
iirc he went 100-1 or so against x17ers, under a smurf name, opening EVERY GAME with a 9 pool.
So yeah I think it CAN BE a solid opening (no matter the skill level of your opponent in comparison to you) just so long as you know what you're doing. O_O;;
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he lost a game to an x17er?what a loser! oov
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fu! you'd probably lose your first or second game~
:D
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indeed i might devaz,indeed i might.
btw i ran out of money so i'm gonna have to get a job before i can send you some money -.-
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MURICA15980 Posts
Thanks for the helps
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guys i havent been playing z for long, but from 12 or 3 position, zvp, whats your guys take on sending ol other way then drone scouting, while going 9pool to 1hat lurker.
ive found it to really be one of the stronger strats ive used
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ZvT I don't think I'd go 9pool unless I thought he was SCV rushing or something; you can early hatch + sunk@new hatch before he has a chance to even bunker you, if you have micro
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MURICA15980 Posts
Not if he proxies or something.
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Klogon I live in portland and would like to attent the tournament if possible! Could you maybe email me the info or just the site with the info?
Rahvin99 at wotmania.com
Thanks.
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MURICA15980 Posts
sent you an e-mail.
EDIT: No reply yet.. you get it? It was rather long... rather not retype it :/
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On December 24 2003 03:00 travis wrote:
guys i havent been playing z for long, but from 12 or 3 position, zvp, whats your guys take on sending ol other way then drone scouting, while going 9pool to 1hat lurker.
ive found it to really be one of the stronger strats ive used
Could work, but it's a do or die strat =]
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MURICA15980 Posts
Well I don't want to repeat a lot of what's been said here, but I'm starting to like 9pool as much as any other build. It feels like you have more control of the game. Usually after the rush if you just play normal, it isn't too different.
I really suck at explaining things, but I think you have to try it some to get a feel for it.
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MURICA15980 Posts
oh, try not to waste your inital 6 lings unless you will do major damage.
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On December 25 2003 04:08 Klogon wrote:
sent you an e-mail.
EDIT: No reply yet.. you get it? It was rather long... rather not retype it :/
I'm lazy about checking my email. thnx
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any other testie guide avaible ?
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i've been getting back into starcraft... thing is i was mainly a BGH player before... so yeah i'm trying to learn how to play on the non-money maps.
anyways, i've been browsing around and 9 pool looks like a build that i'd like to learn with. a few general questions with 9 pool in mind.
the 9 pool i've been considering:
9 pool, drone, extractor, overlord, drone, 6 lings, drone, zergling speed (cancel if necessary) and expansion soon after
-for the mutaling or lurkling builds, how many gases does it need to run? is there a difference for needed gas if i cancel speed for a lair? should i immediately get gas at the expo? or should i lay down sunkens for defense?
-if you are thinking of doing drops, do you double lair to get speed and sacs at the same time? or maybe double lair to get sacs and a hive at the same time? or just sacs? i think one lair, speed first, then sacs, might be good. lair tech waits a bit, but dropping seems more important. speed first since it seems more useful in general, and i dunno, slow drops seem... kinda slow.
-if you are going mutaling, what upgrades to get? it seems like armor seems the most worthwhile. mutalisk mainly being for eco harrassment and it'll always be a fairly slow killer, so armor against anti-air seems important plus attack upgrades don't benefit scourge.
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blahblahblah, mutaling (talking about zvt here) will only hold for so long, and you need to switch to lurker to deal with his MM (you go muta so he builds more marines / makes less tank / builds turret / gets scv building stuff / scouts map / make sure he doesn't island), so getting upgrade for your air units is usually not needed. If you're making al ot of muta, you probably a long term plan of going guardian, in which the +1 attack grade is invaluable in killing armored marines.
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Norway10161 Posts
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sorry 
fuck don't reply
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On December 21 2003 20:26 STIMEY d okgm fish wrote:
sorry it's just i've seen reps of better players and they do very different builds than he's mentioning so i'm wondering why he choose that particular build (not the 9 pool part, duhrr), which he still not explain. maybe he dont understand, english not his language?
maybe you should just take his post for what it is...*hands you a tampon*
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Braavos36374 Posts
one way to nine pool effectively is to get chojja to do it for you
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On December 23 2003 07:45 Klogon wrote:
Hmm, thanks for the help. Its a bit of food for thought, but now I'm wondering when it'd be better to 12 pool... maybe when locations are farther away?
Also been having problems with a turtling tech terran that didn't get hurt by my 9pool and gets tanks on my cliff with wraiths. Best counter is...? Because mutas come to slow to stop the wraiths from killing many overlords and lurkers without ol drop can't stop the tanks.
going hydra against a turtle can be fun. If he early cliffs you, run over and kill his main. If not, exp all over the place.
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mrmin123
Korea (South)2971 Posts
hardcore bumpage there,cappi
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There are three situations where 9 pool is greater than say 12 or 11 pool imo. Against proxy rush/very early pool like 4,5,6; Close spots like 12v3 on Temple or if you wanna pressure early/tech quickly. Otherwise, you want to pool later because you'll be in a stronger position a minute or two later and 9 pool makes you lose out on minerals and extra hatch for more power a little later. I only 9 pool in 2v2 or when I think they're gonna try like 3 gate zealot or scv/rine, cheesy stuff. When you play 9 pool zerg it's best imo to play like you're using Terran: Low unit count and making those units sufficient to do damage to give you room or end the game. Go 1hat/2hat lurks or mutas after 9 pool then expand if you don't end the game. If they turtle, double or triple expand, you'll have the room and units to fight against drop bullshit.
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Abit of topic, but iv always thought H_Paul_W was a 9 pool fan. So maybe there is something to find there.
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why do 9-pool users so often go into 3-hatch (when they don't tech)? Would it be that bad to go into 2nd hatch at exp folowed by returning drones to gas asap and then tech while harassing with the initial lings until they're no longer effective?
i see 9-pools into 3-hatch die horribly to fast dropship ZvT so often it's silly
obviously i understand if it's zerg at 12 on temple for example.
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short guide tvz:
you will probably see one of three builds zvt if you 9 pool that are good:
- 1 base vessel tech, terran moves out with a massive army to do damage while expanding
you beat this by expanding twice after you get lurkers and just massing. be ready for dropships, because there is a good chance they will come
- vultures into something
i know u can do this, but i don't know anything about how it's played, just be on the lookout
- fast expand
if a terran is really good at defending this can be pulled off, you either have to expand a lot urself or go allin on drops
following up 9 pool with drops is pretty good, but if you don't do damage then ur realy behind, whatever you do don't 3 hatch or u risk dieing to dropship
that's all i can think of, just woke up.
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That's why like I said, get lurker or muta tech to stop them from doing drops/harassing/winning if possible then expand or double expand and against a turtler you can go all over the map and be able to defend because a drop isn't going to stop your army and if they move out, you should be on fair grounds to battle, probably better grounds for you because they are gonna leave units to defend.
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This thread is like from 2001 O:
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I'm a toss users so.
9 pool is generally fucking annoying. If you get in and get speedlings in my main that forces me to keep making zealots and micro, usually it also means I have to get a forge for protection against mutas if you are good enough. Against a less skilled toss player it's devestating since you can pick of drones left and rigth and even manage to sneak a pylon here and there. Depending on if they are smart (leaves two zlots at the ramp) or dumb (doesn't) I'd add a few more lings, but 8 lings are really quite sufficent so it's not really neccesary to build more than say, 4 more or so?
Anyway, since the 9 pool also gives you perfect scouting of the toss base you know exactly what he's doing so it's safe to power pretty hard. You don't have to macro perfectly, just make sure to push hard on the gas tech and try to time your lair/spire. If you managed to do damage he's going to get pwned by muta, especially if he gased up really late (maybe 6th zealot or even later).
Of course he can cannon up but then you have toss sitting on mass cannons and zealots with no tech while you have lair. You can't lose that.
Also, a toss cannot move out against muta untill he get's archons so even if he cannons up smart 6 mutas will give you total map controll for a few minutes so power like mad and expo twice (or even 3 times if he manages to expo with mass cannons) and then just go mass hydra or something and rape him.
Even if the 9 pool fails you should have ovi in his base so you know if he got enough to try to kill you soon and you can adapt. Also toss players are worried by lings running around so they will have to leave 2 zlots behind if they attack. Basically 9 pool that doesn't get throug gives you some early map controll, though that's hard to use.
And of course it protects against toss cheese.
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I know this is not exactly the 9 pool u ask about, but anyway here it goes:
- 9 OVER, 9 pool, 12 hach(exp or not) then lings
I find this BO very similar to standar 12 pool, with the advantage of a fast pool, depending on what u scout u can chose to make 2 or more lings.
VS ZERG: if he dont rush u can play EXACTLY like 12 pool, no desadvantages, if he hach or expand u can inflict some damage (and fear) with your 2-4 first lings (depend on map and starting positions)
VS TERRAN: Only good for fast exp or fast lurker drop, DONT DO THIS TO HARASS . I think best option is get only 4 lings and many drones.
VS PROTOSS: continue pumping lings and do 3 hach, when zea rush stopped u chose (gas or 4 hach). Disadvantage: if he makes tech BO u need to know soon to stop pumping lings, its important a good scouting ovies path, if u dont see zealots coming only get 6 lings, dont use the larvas untill u are sure he is not hidding his zealots.
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the most danger part about 9pool is coming from skillful terran and after ur attack fail and his scv scout u expo he simply grap all his scv and then its a gg no re game lol and trust me thats what would happen againest skillful player who know when to attack and recently thats what happen to me. You just simply wouldn't have enought larva to generate enought ling to deffend it ofcourse that only apply when you fail 9 pool but againest skillful t who can micro scv and rine 9 pool just wouldn't work lol.
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If I 9 pool and go to ling harass the t I usually put my second hatch at the ramp so I can defend a scv/rine counter easily with a sunk and some lings.
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i use 9pool because it gives me a chance to bring a drone to a different base and expo..
Usually my opponents expect me to expo to the base near my main so by gonig to a different base to expo..they will be suprised..
(im using LT as my example)
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it all depends on the map and position, if its a map like nostalgia and you make 9 drone scout im sure you can handle 12 hatch exp against any rush --
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Wait, one question...
5 pool<9 pool<12 pool<5 pool?
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a lot of inexperienced Z players do 9 pool and suck at it because they expect the first 6 lings to own. To really doa 9 pool well you need to keep making ling, to 10-12 so that you can have a big impact, and if you lose a couple you arent impotent.
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Granted people better than me use it but I find 9 pool ineffective unless I go random. If I go random and get z 9 pool is at least twice as effective as before(especially if you don't go scout the base next to u with ol and put pool in the back). Also, if you know your playing people worse than you its always better to do less risky strats and to try to prolong the game.
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I like to ovie before the 9pool, slightly later but the stronger eco allows you to take an expo....
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If protos have to get gas fast vs 9pool, it is valid to take it? It would be hard to kill it when lings are in his base.
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Hell i'm an inexperienced Z player, but i've found recently that 9 pool kicks donkey on LT. I play people @ my level (weak but if they do something stupid it's usually auto death for them.
(well - if i do something stupid it's the same for me
So - some leave game when my ling 'army' arrives (especially 12/3) calling me a newbie and a rusher
Others fight my first 8-10 lings with early marines/scv and i kill few of each while setting up my exp. So it's pretty much cost effective and often they just turtle up letting me take the map.
Against P it's harder but those lings running around buy me some time needed to set up expo with sunks. I'll usually pick a couple of probes too. Also If they try some strange tech build like gas gate it's gg.
And it's also useful against Z cause i get an early gas and put some pressure on them.
Other than that sometimes i just get pwnd shortly after due to some stupid mistake i make but that's all right it's me not the strat
Ah, and i almost forgot - 9 pool's great against cheese - but that's already been said: cannon/sunk rushes, bbs and stuff.
Build i use is: 9 pool, 8/9 drone, 9/9 ext trick, 10/9 over (finishes with pool), 6 lings or 4 lings +drone, exp and either keep pumping lings or drones while attacking.
btw, hi that's my first post here. been lurking for too long
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Hi I no this is an old post but if someone could help me out that would be nice. Is Testie's 9 pool guide anywhere else becasue all the links dont work for me so if you can help thats great.
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im not a Z player but if you can get 9pool before you are scouted it works >_>
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Calgary25974 Posts
I honestly don't understand 9 pool. I see a lot of good Zergs do it, especially ZvP on RH3. It doesn't arrive before Zeals block the ramp and it doesn't arrive before Cannons warp in for FE. It's not more safe than a 12 pool. I don't get it.
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in zvt lots of times you can slow terran down just as much if not more
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they do 9 pool on rush hour because protoss fast expand is so common there, and they want to catch the protoss with his pant down building a nexus before cannons.
For defensive purposes, 9 pool after an overlrod or 11/12 pool is much better than 9 pool because it allows you to expand earlier. 9 pool after an overlord can break a terran's ramp if it goes unscouted, while at the same time allowing a faster second hatch than a regular 9 pool. Your zerglings also hatch right on time to stop and 8 rax bunker rush, so it's the best build against a bunker rush because with a 9 pool they'll just defend and not waste money building and canceling bunker and sending scvs, and if you 12 pool you'll still need to bring drones to defend an 8 rax.
Against protoss, if you're 9 pooling you're aiming to get inside his base and harass his probes with speedlings. You have to keep them alive as long as possible while building and macroing, so don't try this if you have bad multitasking. This is only good when the positions are close (12/3 LT and you want to gamble) or when there's no ramp, and/or the choke is fairly wide (longinus, pioneer period). If you simply don't want to be cheesed, then 9 pool after an overlord or 12 pool is better.
Against zerg these days people go 9 pool 9 gas for a really fast spire and not really to kill, although if you find that your opponent has 12 hatched at expo then that's a nice bonus for your build.
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its pressure, toss must cannon first(when fast exp) otherwise is auto gg. you cointain probes from scouting, you're safe from any kind of rush...
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Here's an awesome example of 9 pool speed against a protoss player on a map with no ramp (cultivation period). The zerg player is me. Sorry if I'm flooding this forum with my own replays. You obviously don't have to watch it if you don't want to, but I assure you that it is good:
http://download.yousendit.com/62A5CB2D5CD1C661
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Against T i prefer 9lord 9 pool
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Wow I'm sorry I just deleted this file from my computer about a week ago. Crazy.
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On October 04 2006 20:45 vinsc wrote:
im not a Z player but if you can get 9pool before you are scouted it works >_>
works? what the hell does that mean?
what matchup? what does it achieve? what happens if they scout you?
why did you post this?
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it works on nub terrans ( like me xD) if you're not scouted so they dont have time to black ramp >_>
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Vin, you don't know what you're talking about.
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On December 20 2003 08:21 Klogon wrote:Alright, I'm going to a LAN tournament soon and I don't want to be cheesed by a totally sucky player. Even though it's a double elim with bo3 in every match, I still don't want to cheesed by a newbie. So I want some help with some 9pool builds and such so it's less risky versus less skilled players. The reason I ask is because I know ilnp did very well in WDT (hint hint, where are you, son? ) with 9pool builds as they are safe, and if you are more skilled player than your opponent, you can still win the game even if it wasn't the best move. So enough background, I want to know when and why I would do a 9pool. What advantages does it give me? What do I expect the other player to do, and what is his best move? If there is more than 1 really good move, what should I do to be ready for either and "play it safe" or whatever? I don't want to know just builds as it doesn't make me a better player in the long run. I want a better understanding of the game, and I just found out recently that I know nothing about 9pooling except for early lurker versus terran. I am asking for opinions of people with relatively good experience who know how the game works and know the answers to the questions, although I won't mind the average joe either as it'll help with the discussion. Versus all races would be best, but if you know more about one match-up for the 9pool, that's fine. And for a zvz 9pool... I just want to know WHY I would want to do that because a zerg who does 12pool + defensive sunk always blocks my 9pool rush and has a bigger economy. Thanks for all the help as I'm asking for a rather long explination (understanding of the game usually takes more lines than just build orders). Oh yeah, I wouldn't mind any pool builds before hatch either, like a 12 pool and why I would do that over a 9pool or a 12hatch. etc etc. Last note: This shouldn't always apply to LT as this lan will use any WGTour map, that why understanding matters to me a lot.
OMG ROFL if you think you can get cheesed by a totally sucky player start to fix it from there!...You should watch out on how your strategie works ROFL!...
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wow why the hell did you guys revive this thread
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Hong Kong20321 Posts
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On October 05 2006 09:56 alffla wrote:
wtf is happenig - _-a
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On October 05 2006 09:40 CCHS wrote:
wow why the hell did you guys revive this thread
he had a request to make and it was a legit reason to revive the thread. stfu.
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didnt mondi's zvp guide say something like 9pool 9ol then 9hatch?
I tried it out and it actually works pretty well
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On October 05 2006 17:38 Peanuts wrote:
didnt mondi's zvp guide say something like 9pool 9ol then 9hatch?
I tried it out and it actually works pretty well
9pool 9hatch wtf? it was 9hatch then idk what.
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I think you mean 9 hatch 9 overlord 9 pool. It allows you to fast expand safely, but it works even better with the extractor trick.
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I think it's safe to say 11 pool will keep you safe, micro is needed though.
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On October 05 2006 17:38 Peanuts wrote:
didnt mondi's zvp guide say something like 9pool 9ol then 9hatch?
I tried it out and it actually works pretty well
I think it said 8 ol
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I have tried 9 ol 9 hat 11 pool
This is very safe and nearly uncheeseable
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if youre looking to cheese, go 9 pool. 12 pool is better if youre just looking to counter cheeses. its more economic friendly and protects against pretty much everything (bunk rush, proxy gates, etc) spare something real gay like 4 pool. but since youre at a lan, if someone four pools you, you can always get up and kick them in the throat and win the next two games.
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It's part of the game right ?
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never said it wasnt =p. just not a classy way to win. theres no fun in it.
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oh there's tons of fun when you are the one 4 pooling and you win. tons. part of it comes from the fact that your opponent will be pissed.
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EPT
