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Mikami
21 Posts
i know this one base mutalisk build vs other z i know somewhat 3 hatch muta against terran player ( many times i cant excecute it well because many terrans make bunker rushes and weird ass strategys) but in my opinion theres no basics/standart way to play against protoss.. could some of u tl'ers provide me any modern standart ZvP strategies | ||
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nataziel
Australia1455 Posts
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NotSupporting
Sweden1998 Posts
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Lamentations
Australia211 Posts
Applying what you said there to this slight analogy is just like mapping the game out in your brain. Of course SC is very dynamic but freeing up your mind from duties (which now as a D or C player require a lot of concentration to get right) by repeating them endlessly you can utilise your full strategic/creative/tactical potential. Any other typical builds for other matchups that you know and suggest we practice to improve? I am interested in this as I find it is hard to practise crazy tactics if your mechanics are not very good. How can you proxy crazy hatcheries in their main if you can't accurately get the same timing every time - it would only work as often as you play perfectly! This is what I feel many players need to take to unlock that creativity into something useful instead of just pimp plays, and I want to know some good builds as I have a couple mates who are at my SC level who would make prime practice partners  | ||
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UmmTheHobo
United States650 Posts
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Love.Zelduck
United States170 Posts
Would it be possible for someone to post this for each race each matchup? I'm trying to teach my friend to play, he's sticking with Zerg, and all of my training has been learning about Protoss, so I have only a vague idea of what his bo looks like. This is exactly what I wanted us to do, just both of us play the same standard BO's over and over until he learns to properly macro and keep up with me. Otherwise, I get tempted to counter his bo and he gets tempted to try really crappy sneaky stuff. If you don't wanna do all, someone who can say with the same confidence Artosis has about TvZ on what the most standard basic popular ZvP and PvZ bos are. Us chobos trying to practice greatly appreciate it. (I could use the PvT one too =P). | ||
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Love.Zelduck
United States170 Posts
On September 18 2008 07:30 eXigent. wrote: How is it not a good comparison? You disagree that you need a high level of mechanics in order to compete at a top level of SF? It's an arcade game, using a joystick that pivots, and 6 buttons for moves. Each player has a WIDE variety of general moves, and of course big combos. I guarantee that you could play street fighter daily for hours, until the end of the year, and still not hold a candle to a top player who has very good mechanics. It is NOT easy to pivot a 360degree joystick while hitting the right buttons at the exact right time. That needs a high level of mechanics, an insanely high level at that. So, I don't understand why you would say they are a bad comparison. Yes, they are different, but at the core they are exactly the same. Hand speed / co-ordination, and split second timing. In conclusion, I believe you are wrong for stating that. I made a thread a little while ago about comparing Sirlin's SF2 and SC2. The conclusion we came to was that SF2 doesn't have deep mechanics, but very deep mindgames, and BW has very deep mechanics and maybe less mindgames, so it wasn't a good fit. However, SF3 does fit to bw because something that makes SF2 players shy away from SF3 is the deep mechanics. I'm not good at SF3 not because I don't have decent mindgames (I'm pretty decent at SF2), but because I'm unwilling to train hard in SF3 knowing that 4 is coming soon, so ya, any game that has both deep mechanics and, obviously, serious strategy that breaks games is generally comparable to bw. | ||
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Hypnosis
United States2061 Posts
(this starts with FD) 9 depot 11 barracks 11 gas 15 fac 16 depot addon tank mines 22 depot vulture 30 depot 31-32 CC 33 tank 34 engineering bay 35-36 siege tank 4-5 turrets around base (CC finished so no depot until 42) tank 44 Fac 46 Depot Here is where the 5 fac part comes into play. 49 addon 50 2nd gas, armory, acadamy 51 depot -***as soon as your acadamy is finishing stop scv production and get scanners -***as soon as your armory is finishing stop tank production and make 3 more factories, get +1 attack and then as soon as you can make 2 goliaths in your addon factories and begin getting all your upgrades (vult speed first then GOL RANGE) make a lot of depots because you are going to pump 2 rounds of vultures immediately when your 3 extra factories are completed. From here you should have about 7-8 tanks (there are more tanks in there than i wrote down), 4 gols, 4-6 marines and 10 vultures. Rally your 5 factories outside of your base, expo while you push and attempt to kill the protoss. This build is ridiculously good against reaver builds. a varation of this build is to not expo as you push and add a 6th factory while you push and have the ability to reinforce your army easily (while taking a later expo). http://rapidshare.com/files/178834942/5_fac1.rep.html this is basically the build with some slight variations | ||
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Love.Zelduck
United States170 Posts
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Hypnosis
United States2061 Posts
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Ra.Xor.2
United States1784 Posts
Ps. I did not read all the pages in this thread so I dunno if it has been posted already. | ||
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Baddieko
Singapore855 Posts
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kemoryan
Spain1506 Posts
On January 02 2009 11:17 Ra.Xor.2 wrote: In the national geographic doccumentry on pro starcraft in Korea, they analyze Xellos brain and compare it with a common players in an attempt to figure out why progamers are so good at Starcraft. They found out that while the common player used lobes in his brain associated with vision, Xellos was mostly using the brain lobe associated with memory. I think that proves Artosis's point about practice styles. Koreans practice so much that Starcraft becomes mere muscle memory, like playing the piano or any other instrument. Ps. I did not read all the pages in this thread so I dunno if it has been posted already. Wow that's interesting. I might even start playing in my mind before sleep to enhance that muscle memory!  | ||
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avilo
United States4100 Posts
On January 04 2009 00:00 kemoryan wrote: Wow that's interesting. I might even start playing in my mind before sleep to enhance that muscle memory! well, really what the study shows is how progamers/top tier people think about the game. An easy example is the novice player visually looking at this screen to remember the current location of say a reaver and a shuttle, whereas the professional player sets aside temporary memory to remember to re-focus his attention back on the shuttle after it's crossed a certain distance. The novice would tell it to go somewhere and forget about it because he has not trained his memory enough to deal with multiple things he needs to keep track of, and the pro knows where everything is within the game while not needing to physically see it on his screen. This is how good players can re-focus their attention and multi-task in multiple places on the map at once, by using hotkeys and their short-term memory in an organized and practiced fashion to juggle between tasks. oh and bump -.- | ||
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Racenilatr
United States2756 Posts
On January 24 2009 08:30 avilo wrote: well, really what the study shows is how progamers/top tier people think about the game. An easy example is the novice player visually looking at this screen to remember the current location of say a reaver and a shuttle, whereas the professional player sets aside temporary memory to remember to re-focus his attention back on the shuttle after it's crossed a certain distance. The novice would tell it to go somewhere and forget about it because he has not trained his memory enough to deal with multiple things he needs to keep track of, and the pro knows where everything is within the game while not needing to physically see it on his screen. This is how good players can re-focus their attention and multi-task in multiple places on the map at once, by using hotkeys and their short-term memory in an organized and practiced fashion to juggle between tasks. oh and bump -.- LOLOL. For some reason, I thought all people knew how to do that but were just too slow or something and couldn't keep up with themselves in one way or another. I have been focusing alot of my multitasking to try to improve it and that's mainly what I have been doing. It IS just like playing the piano and thats where I got the idea form originally | ||
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We Are Here
Australia1810 Posts
On January 02 2009 07:03 Hypnosis wrote: "ErrorTvP 5 Fac push: (this starts with FD) 9 depot 11 barracks 11 gas 15 fac 16 depot addon tank mines 22 depot vulture 30 depot 31-32 CC 33 tank 34 engineering bay 35-36 siege tank 4-5 turrets around base (CC finished so no depot until 42) tank 44 Fac 46 Depot Here is where the 5 fac part comes into play. 49 addon 50 2nd gas, armory, acadamy 51 depot -***as soon as your acadamy is finishing stop scv production and get scanners -***as soon as your armory is finishing stop tank production and make 3 more factories, get +1 attack and then as soon as you can make 2 goliaths in your addon factories and begin getting all your upgrades (vult speed first then GOL RANGE) make a lot of depots because you are going to pump 2 rounds of vultures immediately when your 3 extra factories are completed. From here you should have about 7-8 tanks (there are more tanks in there than i wrote down), 4 gols, 4-6 marines and 10 vultures. Rally your 5 factories outside of your base, expo while you push and attempt to kill the protoss. This build is ridiculously good against reaver builds. a varation of this build is to not expo as you push and add a 6th factory while you push and have the ability to reinforce your army easily (while taking a later expo). http://rapidshare.com/files/178834942/5_fac1.rep.html this is basically the build with some slight variations This file is neither allocated to a Premium Account, or a Collector's Account, and can therefore only be downloaded 10 times. This limit is reached." =[ btw is this a standard at higher levels or a build u made up? | ||
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stack
Canada348 Posts
I think it should be asked if there are any koreans who play like foreigners. ie maybe b team | ||
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niteReloaded
Croatia5282 Posts
On January 24 2009 21:50 stack wrote: too often is it asked whether there are any foreigners as good as koreans. I think it should be asked if there are any koreans who play like foreigners. ie maybe b team If there is one, they probably make him change style and play PROPERLY. There's no korean style and foreigner style. There's only the proper way and the distorted way. Koreans go for the style that will win games in the largest possible % of games, suited for their mechanical abilities. Foreigners do the same, but because their mechanical abilites are inferior, when these two styles clash, foreigners get some puny win percentage. | ||
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s.ilk
11 Posts
In Korea video gaming is not disdained or seen as somehow devoid of cultural value its a new art and a well respected hobby even sponsored by organizations like IT companies (SKT) and banks (Shinhan). Getting those sponsorships in America (which wouldn't happen because there aren't any real tournaments at the local or national level) would be like getting sponsored by IBM and Citigoup (although maybe anymore you'd be sponsoring them). Think about the liklihood of that. Sorry for the book by the way. But I think this is sort of interesting. Video games promote things like quickness of thought, guile, practice, and multitasking. All things that would help in the real world more than the things that sports (not that I have anything against them I'm a better fencer and basketball player than I am a starcraft player) promote physicality, aggressive personality, captainship. I think the first list in today's world is more viable than the second list. Who knows. Just venting to be honest. | ||
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medic27
United States135 Posts
On March 04 2009 13:09 s.ilk wrote: For the rest of the western world at least a black belt in a martial art is either BS or the person is seen as a wierdo or an outcast. lol what? i think i can safely that your perception of norms in the "western world" is ... what am i saying, you have no perception of norms. | ||
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