You may have noticed that every now and then a dark templar will trigger a spider mine and then casually dispatch it before happily continuing on its quest to kill shit. You may also have shared my feeling of frustration when in PvT a terran expands insanely fast after scouting your fast darks and uses only a few mines to hold it. You're sitting there with the most lethal unit in bw and he's expanding at will because of some lame shit he gets free with vultures. Anyway, you'll be glad to know there's a way around this.
I just recorded this on Europe with low latency. Basically you just move the dark towards the mine and press hold so it'll stop right in front of it. You need to get a feel for the lag and how far the dark will move in the time it takes for hold to happen. But it works well. Sorry for the low quality.
Unless you saw him lay the mines or know where they are it won't help all that much really because the latency is just too high for hold to take effect if you wait until after the mine pops up. Unless you have awesome reactions. Whatever, try and learn it.
On lan or hamachi though you can just hit h when you see the mine and you'll be fine.
This isn't just pressing hold when the mine pops up, if your dark stops short of the mine it won't work. You need the dark to stop right in front of the mine so get a feel for how far it moves after pressing h.
Hope this helps people be more lame in PvT. 1 fact expo really isn't a good build, there's no excuse for letting them win with it just because you went darks.
I'm pretty sure if you spam right click over the mine, you'll be able to use attack command once it comes up and it will do the same thing.
Anyways you shouldn't be complaining about a terran expanding at will, its usually the Toss that gets the easy expand on natural + expands after. Also it takes 100/100 to get vulture mines, and you have to choose to get that aside from seige or speed. Don't complain that terran gets it easy, because we don't, we SHOULD be able to expand if we research mines.
On September 28 2007 07:13 terranmetal wrote: I'm pretty sure if you spam right click over the mine, you'll be able to use attack command once it comes up and it will do the same thing.
Anyways you shouldn't be complaining about a terran expanding at will, its usually the Toss that gets the easy expand on natural + expands after. Also it takes 100/100 to get vulture mines, and you have to choose to get that aside from seige or speed. Don't complain that terran gets it easy, because we don't, we SHOULD be able to expand if we research mines.
This does not work. What happens here is the dark gets a mine in the face. The mine has the faster attack speed, the dark has the greater range. If they're moving towards each other, for example if you target the mine, they'll both be in range at the same time and the dark will do a swishy blade animation and then die from explosion poisoning. If however the dark stops and goes into hold position mode then it will be able to attack the moment the mine reaches it's range while still being just out of range of the mine. The key is that the dark cannot be moving towards the mine at the time because doing so will make the dark templar within the mines range. It must be in hold position and ready to swipe the moment the mine enters its range.
Isn't it posts like these that change terran strategies? Like how terrans used to comfortably rely on using spider mines to keep goons away from their natural until protoss players learned to bust through so they had to be more careful...
I remember this was posted once before like a year ago and Leg said how he invented it:
On November 08 2006 04:56 Legionnaire wrote: T_T afaik i invented the dt vs mines 3 years ago when i was in POS. I actually had a UMS to practice it on, bejjang kept telling me i was wasting my time, but i thought it was fun
Always wanted to win a game by using dts/obs vs mines in a tv match but i never had the opportunity.
You will notice that attacking from a diagonal position, mines pop up a lot earlier, but not from directly on the side, or if the dts a fraction above it. There is also a way to do it with attacking the mines.
Pretty useless if there are multiple mines around :S
That is way different from what this is about. This is beating mines with DT's. The leg one was using obs and DT's together to beat mines. The mechanics are way different, and in the case outlined in this thread, it actually happens in useful situations.
Anyway, I love DT's, they are my fav unit. Thanks a lot for this, I'll try it. I normally just suicide my units to get rid of mines and hope a DT or three survive, lol.
On September 28 2007 08:20 Purind wrote: That is way different from what this is about. This is beating mines with DT's. The leg one was using obs and DT's together to beat mines. The mechanics are way different, and in the case outlined in this thread, it actually happens in useful situations.
Anyway, I love DT's, they are my fav unit. Thanks a lot for this, I'll try it. I normally just suicide my units to get rid of mines and hope a DT or three survive, lol.
The mechanics really arent that different.
From what I can see the only difference would be the fact that with obs you would know exactly where the mines are. You wouldnt have any extra range or anything. And you would still use hold the same way.
On September 28 2007 08:20 Purind wrote: That is way different from what this is about. This is beating mines with DT's. The leg one was using obs and DT's together to beat mines. The mechanics are way different, and in the case outlined in this thread, it actually happens in useful situations.
Anyway, I love DT's, they are my fav unit. Thanks a lot for this, I'll try it. I normally just suicide my units to get rid of mines and hope a DT or three survive, lol.
The mechanics really arent that different.
From what I can see the only difference would be the fact that with obs you would know exactly where the mines are. You wouldnt have any extra range or anything. And you would still use hold the same way.
The one outlined by leg is way different. That one you let the dt go and attack the mine because the dt sees the mine.
The method outline in this thread is seriously awesome :D I'll have to try it out sometime. Where do you do your move command btw? Is it as close to the mine as possible or beyond it or before it?
On top of it or beyond it but I hit hold before it gets that far. It's impossible to give an absolute guide as to when to hit hold as it varies with latency. You need to get a feel for it. You do want to always be moving towards the mine though. If you approach it at right angles then the mine will pop up and your dt won't be heading towards it so will be chased down by a spidery killing boom thingy. You want the mine to pop up, wait for a half second going "sup?" and then die as the dark closes range on it quickly and dispatches it.
Its stuff like these that make me love starcraft. Like when swarm made archons do splash now zerg go defiler vs toss. Or when they found out boxes and hotkey overlord with mutas.
On September 28 2007 12:51 Kwark wrote: Wanna put it in the recommended with the rest of the guides or is it not worthy? I think given the effort put into that paint thing it deserves it.
I'm not going to bother because I'm rebuilding the Recommended Threads thread from scratch. It'll be in the updated version.
On September 29 2007 09:39 PePe QuiCoSE wrote: err... doesn't this also work with patrol?
No. As I feel I've stressed multiple times the dark needs to stop directly in front of the mine. Patrol causes a face full of explosion unless you get a lucky mine ai bugging angle. Unless you have some method I've not seen before in which case please explain how it can be done with patrol.
So in a progame, someone would be able to coast through a minefield by using hold position as soon as a mine triggers (of course, triggering multiple mines is still a problem)? Sick.
edit: If I understand correctly, the key is that the DT should stop moving at a position where the mine is in swipe range but far enough so that the mine needs to pop up and move to be able to explode. Attack move or patrol makes the DT go past the critical point and thus run into the mine pretty often. Holding immediately after the mine pops (assuming no latency) doesn't work either because then the mine won't be in range?
I try this all the time, and i usually end up focusing so hard to inch my DT's in that I forget about everything else, and by the time my DT dies I'm at liek 600 minerals, no expo, 40ish psi.
On September 29 2007 13:32 Myrmidon wrote: So in a progame, someone would be able to coast through a minefield by using hold position as soon as a mine triggers (of course, triggering multiple mines is still a problem)? Sick.
edit: If I understand correctly, the key is that the DT should stop moving at a position where the mine is in swipe range but far enough so that the mine needs to pop up and move to be able to explode. Attack move or patrol makes the DT go past the critical point and thus run into the mine pretty often. Holding immediately after the mine pops (assuming no latency) doesn't work either because then the mine won't be in range?
Precisely. The dt needs to be walking towards the mine too because otherwise, unless you have amazing reactions, it won't be able to close the distance and swipe before the mine starts moving.
On September 29 2007 13:32 Myrmidon wrote: So in a progame, someone would be able to coast through a minefield by using hold position as soon as a mine triggers (of course, triggering multiple mines is still a problem)? Sick.
Nope, Pros will counter with multiple mines next to each other or even Iris floating barracks over mines.
EPT
![[image loading]](http://img220.imageshack.us/img220/3702/darkfs8.jpg)
