EPTPvP - How to counter Goon/Reaver??
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Sanity.
United States704 Posts
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Sanity.
United States704 Posts
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Q~Bert
United States663 Posts
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evanthebouncy!
United States12796 Posts
Lol PvP is boring untill later on you get templars T_T | ||
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SpiritoftheTunA
United States20903 Posts
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S[n]0w
United States10 Posts
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noobienoob
United States1173 Posts
edit: proxy prox pROX | ||
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XCetron
5226 Posts
On September 02 2007 16:20 noobienoob wrote: 3-4 gate zealots no gas! don't forget to bring probes with the first 3 zealots! edit: proxy prox pROX are you serious? | ||
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arew
Lithuania1861 Posts
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Shauni
4077 Posts
Then just mass from 6-8 gates goon. Remember to keep a group outside the exp for flanking. Basically, goon micro is the key to winning this one. Buy time, make him unload, load a lot on the way. Even goon trade favors you. | ||
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nM-BlacK-
8 Posts
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dAemon(1]
14 Posts
just cause they have obs doesnt mean your dts are useless, and storm researches faster then you think if you go straight to it. don't believe it? just look at bisu. a lot of times its the build order, that wins the battle, however a lot of the time, its not the build order, but how you use it that counts. | ||
KwarK
United States42636 Posts
On September 09 2007 04:48 dAemon(1] wrote: try teching striahgt to dt and afterwards get storm right after. dt will let you keep him at bay for a little bit as well as gives you opportunity to harass him, while u get your cannons up at your expo location just cause they have obs doesnt mean your dts are useless, and storm researches faster then you think if you go straight to it. don't believe it? just look at bisu. a lot of times its the build order, that wins the battle, however a lot of the time, its not the build order, but how you use it that counts. The man is right about dark expo storm cannon. Look at Bisu vs Testie at the WWI on Blitz-X. Perfect execution of that opening by Testie. Dark bought him time, he expoed, by the time Bisu tried to pressure he couldn't touch him and had to settle for a much slower counter expo. The only problem was that Testie skipped range for the faster darks and then forgot it. But the game is on youtube and it's a very nice build order. And you get fucking hundreds of stormers from fast 2 gas. Goon reaver can't touch you once you have that many storms ready. | ||
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Equinox_kr
United States7395 Posts
Sort of regurgitating what Shauni said, but oh well :-/ | ||
IntoTheWow
is awesome32274 Posts
On September 09 2007 04:48 dAemon(1] wrote: try teching striahgt to dt and afterwards get storm right after. dt will let you keep him at bay for a little bit as well as gives you opportunity to harass him, while u get your cannons up at your expo location just cause they have obs doesnt mean your dts are useless, and storm researches faster then you think if you go straight to it. don't believe it? just look at bisu. a lot of times its the build order, that wins the battle, however a lot of the time, its not the build order, but how you use it that counts. They reaver harrass you till you die. | ||
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CharlieMurphy
United States22895 Posts
ps- ofc you need a few canons and obs eventually too. | ||
NonY
8748 Posts
testie's build was good for blitz x, but it's not something you can automatically do on every map. 3 gates or 4 gates zealot rush is just stupid on any map and it's not a counter anyway -- just an attempt at prevention. making goons out of 6+ gates after expanding is stupid on any map. if you get a look at their robo, then the easiest solution might be a simple 3gate goon --> expo build. get the 3gates set up quickly without cutting many probes, and then make non-stop goons from them until you've defended against his attack. expand when you can afford it or if you scout him expanding. if you don't see their robo, a DT rush build can potentially work on a large amount of maps, but you have to play it correctly. walking distance between bases should be on the long side. it doesn't matter how quickly your DT's get there because if your opponent is doing a proper goon/reav build, his first obs will come in time anyway. but you do want to have 2 DT's outside his base by the time he's ready to attack. this forces him to have 2 obs (one with army, one at base) and to leave some units behind for defending probes. this should delay him enough for you to have enough storm/cannons to stop his attack. once his attack is stopped, you should head toward ~7gates of units for a big mid-game attack. take control of the map so you can set up your 3rd nexus and prevent his. storm drops are also good in this situation another option if you dont see his robo is to go defensive goon/reav. i dont know if that's too similar for you, but in my opinion it's the most solid counter. basically you're doing the same build as him but you get the shuttle after the reavers and you expand faster. shield battery at your nat can be helpful for this build. once you survive his attack, don't do anything extreme. you should have an advantage since you expanded faster, but not a huge advantage. just play normally and you will feel your advantage during mid-game play | ||
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LumberJack
United States3355 Posts
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Knickknack
United States1187 Posts
Any kind of goon & no robo is typically the hard counter. Dt->expo can work. You can always just expand around the same time as them, in which case you should have at least the same amount of units as them if you play defense. Where it gets tricky with first attack is when you expo first. I also support a defensive goon/reaver build. To quote myself: "I ran a practice example of a zcorez 6:00 expo build myself on 8patch normal LT. At 7:50 I had 11g/1r/5z" I think this build plan is perhaps the best all around on many maps. Heck, it means you'll usually be able to have faster expo and more units than a ~8min 2reaver attack because of travel distance (Though probably not vs a ~9:30 one base late goon/reaver build, though you should be able to defend). Though it can get tricky depending on map, micro and such. It gives the the option to pump probes more or hold off based on what expo timing your ob sees. It gives a strong midgame. | ||
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Asakura
Germany471 Posts
On September 02 2007 15:30 evanthebouncy! wrote: more goon reaver of your own. Lol PvP is boring untill later on you get templars T_T For me it's vice versa... I love Goon/Reavet battles, but dislike the late game with all those freakish storms >< | ||
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micronesia
United States24676 Posts
On September 02 2007 16:37 arew wrote: goon/reaver is rly sux to def =/ u should make reaver or go 2gate expo to get advantage. Expanding early is the worst thing you can do vs goon reaver... Like others said, don't expand earlier under most circumstances. | ||
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KwarK
United States42636 Posts
On September 09 2007 09:36 micronesia wrote: Expanding early is the worst thing you can do vs goon reaver... Like others said, don't expand earlier under most circumstances. I still maintain that dark expo cannon storm is very viable vs goon reaver, though as nony said it's map dependent. The pressuring power of the reavers range which normally makes an expo unholdable is countered by the range and power of psi storm. If he presses your cannons with a reaver then that reavers gonna die. | ||
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micronesia
United States24676 Posts
On September 09 2007 10:24 Kwark wrote: I still maintain that dark expo cannon storm is very viable vs goon reaver, though as nony said it's map dependent. The pressuring power of the reavers range which normally makes an expo unholdable is countered by the range and power of psi storm. If he presses your cannons with a reaver then that reavers gonna die. Oh oops, thanks for reminding me. I didn't mean you shouldn't do dt->expo. I just meant you shouldn't expand ahead without reavers or templar tech units. | ||
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