Most of the time the first storm drop won't kill much if you dodge at least a little because SCVs are fat and healthy. But they might get damaged significantly enough for the next storm drop to hurt you a lot more.
Storm drops will usually occur in late midgame when the cost of a medic is pretty much nothing relative to your income.
Having 1 medic will probably mean all of your SCVs are healed back to 60hp by the time the next drop happens. I'd keep the medic slightly away from the mineral line so she doesn't die to the actual storm.
That's all, I thought this might be a useful 'niche idea' and fun to read. I hope someone finds it interesting enough to try out. I plan to share some other ideas about niche tactics in the coming time.
I think you instead need to fix drops from happening. Shuttles die quite fast and some turrets make nice work of it with a floating building or vessel as hill vision. Can also get one wraith to help with shuttle killing.
A few vults to kill the single HT that actually survives the shuttle attack.
If you let shuttle drop, it will in most cases be 2 HTs so your SCVs are dead anyway if you let it happen.
A single mine also works unless its too close to SCVs.
Fun fact: If you use Patrol with Medic it will always go back after healing instead of staying where it was last healing. This way you could get one Medic for many expansions by using queue-patrolling (many patrols in a circle(3 or more spots)) which means you only need one.
I'll try to get the numbers for fastest game speed.
Without any upgrades, a medic starts with 50 initial energy, which regenerates until it caps out at 200. One medic heals 18.601 HP/second. It spends 1 energy to heal 2 HP. That means it spends 9.3005 energy/second. With 0 energy, a medic heals ~1.5 HP/second (1.488 to be precise). That's 8% of the healing speed (or one could say it's 12.5x faster with full energy). Energy regeneration is 0.744 energy/second. This is active at all times until the medic has full energy.
One fresh medic can heal 100 HP before it runs out of its initial energy. With that it can fully heal a minimum of (rounded up): ~1.7 nearly dead SCVs (~5.4 seconds) or ~3.4 half dead SCVs (~10.8 seconds) We can add a little more healing due to energy regeneration, but I don't know a good estimate. If I had to take a guess, I'd say that, realistically speaking (considering walking distance, obstacles, suboptimal pathing, etc.), a fresh medic would fully heal anywhere between 2-5 SCVs with its initial energy, depending on their exact health status. I'd put the mean at around 3-4 SCVs (with variance mostly coming from the amount of damage dealt to the worker line). The realistic mean could be higher or lower.
When all energy is spent, the healing rate goes down to 8%. At that rate, when given a whole minute, a medic can fully heal: ~1.5 nearly dead SCVs or ~3 half dead SCVs
So in my rough estimate, about 1 minute and 5-10 seconds after the medic starts to go to work, it has probably healed around 6-8 SCVs. After that it would require 67 idle seconds for the medic to have another 50 energy ready, or 268 seconds (~4.5 minutes) for the full 200 energy. If instead the medic keeps healing, it'll do so at the aforementioned rate (per minute) of ~1.5 nearly dead SCVs or ~3 half dead SCVs.
Fingers crossed that I didn't get any numbers wrong.
On August 04 2021 08:40 MeSaber wrote: I think you instead need to fix drops from happening.
If storm drops happen even on ASL level, then obviously preventing them isn't doable.
Shuttles die quite fast and some turrets make nice work of it with a floating building or vessel as hill vision. Can also get one wraith to help with shuttle killing.
They don't mind if the shuttle dies, as long as they get to unload a few HTs. And a few minutes later, a new shuttle with new HTs comes. Watch some pro games.
A few vults to kill the single HT that actually survives the shuttle attack.
Doesn't work. Especially if they unload 1 zealot before unloading 2-3 HTs.
If you let shuttle drop, it will in most cases be 2 HTs so your SCVs are dead anyway if you let it happen.
Wrong, if you notice it in time, you won't take the whole duration of the storm but will be able to dodge part of it.
A single mine also works unless its too close to SCVs.
Yes. But as you said, doesn't help if it's dropped in the mineral line. No terran will place mines in (or very near) the mineral line, because it's suicide.
Fun fact: If you use Patrol with Medic it will always go back after healing instead of staying where it was last healing. This way you could get one Medic for many expansions by using queue-patrolling (many patrols in a circle(3 or more spots)) which means you only need one.
I think I'd still personally prefer to have 1 per base because it takes time for her to walk from one base to the other, but this is still interesting to know.
Shuttles die quite fast and some turrets make nice work of it with a floating building or vessel as hill vision. Can also get one wraith to help with shuttle killing.
They don't mind if the shuttle dies, as long as they get to unload a few HTs. And a few minutes later, a new shuttle with new HTs comes. Watch some pro games.
A single mine also works unless its too close to SCVs.
Yes. But as you said, doesn't help if it's dropped in the mineral line. No terran will place mines in (or very near) the mineral line, because it's suicide.
Fun fact: If you use Patrol with Medic it will always go back after healing instead of staying where it was last healing. This way you could get one Medic for many expansions by using queue-patrolling (many patrols in a circle(3 or more spots)) which means you only need one.
I think I'd still personally prefer to have 1 per base because it takes time for her to walk from one base to the other, but this is still interesting to know.
Nitpicking on what i said there. Everything i said is in context of just one drop happening. If you have a wraith it will shoot 2-3 shots on shuttle before passing, two turrets making short work of rest of shuttle, you will then get to drop one unit, it will not be a zealot but a HT, you then kill it with 4 vults shooting once each, or mine.
If you now dont defend at all there will be 2 HTs and they will storm at the same time and you wont be able to dodge when you have nowhere to go that isnt stormed. Usually this will kill a lot of SCVs, many more than just having one HT storming twice which is dodgeable.
If enemy comes with 2 shuttles you will more or less lose a lot of SCVs no matter what because you cant deny the drop from happening. Most Pro's leave tanks and vults for this and a bunker with rines.
Best solution is in most cases to just mass turret the edges to prevent many units dropping per shuttle but just one per shuttle making it out.
All this is situational depending on what really happens in a game and the best way to prevent SCVs from dying is just scans or map awareness (spread mines allover map to see shuttle coming).
I want to say wraiths however is really key, having a few of em over the hill and prob a bit away for chase-ability will at least kill one shuttle or maybe two if you chase em all the way.
On August 04 2021 08:40 MeSaber wrote: I think you instead need to fix drops from happening.
If storm drops happen even on ASL level, then obviously preventing them isn't doable.
Shuttles die quite fast and some turrets make nice work of it with a floating building or vessel as hill vision. Can also get one wraith to help with shuttle killing.
They don't mind if the shuttle dies, as long as they get to unload a few HTs. And a few minutes later, a new shuttle with new HTs comes. Watch some pro games.
A few vults to kill the single HT that actually survives the shuttle attack.
Doesn't work. Especially if they unload 1 zealot before unloading 2-3 HTs.
If you let shuttle drop, it will in most cases be 2 HTs so your SCVs are dead anyway if you let it happen.
Wrong, if you notice it in time, you won't take the whole duration of the storm but will be able to dodge part of it.
A single mine also works unless its too close to SCVs.
Yes. But as you said, doesn't help if it's dropped in the mineral line. No terran will place mines in (or very near) the mineral line, because it's suicide.
Fun fact: If you use Patrol with Medic it will always go back after healing instead of staying where it was last healing. This way you could get one Medic for many expansions by using queue-patrolling (many patrols in a circle(3 or more spots)) which means you only need one.
I think I'd still personally prefer to have 1 per base because it takes time for her to walk from one base to the other, but this is still interesting to know.
Nitpicking on what i said there. Everything i said is in context of just one drop happening. If you have a wraith it will shoot 2-3 shots on shuttle before passing, two turrets making short work of rest of shuttle, you will then get to drop one unit, it will not be a zealot but a HT, you then kill it with 4 vults shooting once each, or mine.
If you now dont defend at all there will be 2 HTs and they will storm at the same time and you wont be able to dodge when you have nowhere to go that isnt stormed. Usually this will kill a lot of SCVs, many more than just having one HT storming twice which is dodgeable.
If enemy comes with 2 shuttles you will more or less lose a lot of SCVs no matter what because you cant deny the drop from happening. Most Pro's leave tanks and vults for this and a bunker with rines.
Best solution is in most cases to just mass turret the edges to prevent many units dropping per shuttle but just one per shuttle making it out.
All this is situational depending on what really happens in a game and the best way to prevent SCVs from dying is just scans or map awareness (spread mines allover map to see shuttle coming).
I want to say wraiths however is really key, having a few of em over the hill and prob a bit away for chase-ability will at least kill one shuttle or maybe two if you chase em all the way.
You don't know what nitpicking means. You made a lot of claims, I dissected them one by one and showed how you were wrong. Now you say that everything you said is in the context of just one drop happening, when the whole idea of the thread is recovery between multiple drops.
And the way you write seems like haven't watched pro level games that include storm drops. Please don't reply anymore.
On August 04 2021 08:40 MeSaber wrote: I think you instead need to fix drops from happening.
If storm drops happen even on ASL level, then obviously preventing them isn't doable.
Shuttles die quite fast and some turrets make nice work of it with a floating building or vessel as hill vision. Can also get one wraith to help with shuttle killing.
They don't mind if the shuttle dies, as long as they get to unload a few HTs. And a few minutes later, a new shuttle with new HTs comes. Watch some pro games.
A few vults to kill the single HT that actually survives the shuttle attack.
Doesn't work. Especially if they unload 1 zealot before unloading 2-3 HTs.
If you let shuttle drop, it will in most cases be 2 HTs so your SCVs are dead anyway if you let it happen.
Wrong, if you notice it in time, you won't take the whole duration of the storm but will be able to dodge part of it.
A single mine also works unless its too close to SCVs.
Yes. But as you said, doesn't help if it's dropped in the mineral line. No terran will place mines in (or very near) the mineral line, because it's suicide.
Fun fact: If you use Patrol with Medic it will always go back after healing instead of staying where it was last healing. This way you could get one Medic for many expansions by using queue-patrolling (many patrols in a circle(3 or more spots)) which means you only need one.
I think I'd still personally prefer to have 1 per base because it takes time for her to walk from one base to the other, but this is still interesting to know.
Nitpicking on what i said there. Everything i said is in context of just one drop happening. If you have a wraith it will shoot 2-3 shots on shuttle before passing, two turrets making short work of rest of shuttle, you will then get to drop one unit, it will not be a zealot but a HT, you then kill it with 4 vults shooting once each, or mine.
If you now dont defend at all there will be 2 HTs and they will storm at the same time and you wont be able to dodge when you have nowhere to go that isnt stormed. Usually this will kill a lot of SCVs, many more than just having one HT storming twice which is dodgeable.
If enemy comes with 2 shuttles you will more or less lose a lot of SCVs no matter what because you cant deny the drop from happening. Most Pro's leave tanks and vults for this and a bunker with rines.
Best solution is in most cases to just mass turret the edges to prevent many units dropping per shuttle but just one per shuttle making it out.
All this is situational depending on what really happens in a game and the best way to prevent SCVs from dying is just scans or map awareness (spread mines allover map to see shuttle coming).
I want to say wraiths however is really key, having a few of em over the hill and prob a bit away for chase-ability will at least kill one shuttle or maybe two if you chase em all the way.
You don't know what nitpicking means. You made a lot of claims, I dissected them one by one and showed how you were wrong. Now you say that everything you said is in the context of just one drop happening, when the whole idea of the thread is recovery between multiple drops.
And the way you write seems like haven't watched pro level games that include storm drops. Please don't reply anymore.
I reply how much i want thank you. Yes you dissected it until it had no context making each phrase look like a noob talking.
Be a man and stand up for you being wrong. Anyone can see what you did as its in text.
You just want to defend your stupid medic shit and you know it.
Well, the idea wasn't to change the meta or anything.
On August 04 2021 07:23 niteReloaded wrote: That's all, I thought this might be a useful 'niche idea' and fun to read. I hope someone finds it interesting enough to try out.
I think this idea is great from a roleplaying point of view. If I were a dude in an SCV, I sure would like to have some BW medics around to heal my wounds or to dab my sweat. Or to chit-chat with while I'm idling like most of my SCVs.
If you put a hot female medic in the middle of 24 sweaty strong miners you never know what’s gonna happen good thing they don’t get to use the stimpack ammarite??
Well I don't know about your bases but obviously there should always be a supervisor on site. The depots pose a bigger problem in this regard. The anti-discrimination officer has to be informed of any grievances.
But good job for pointing out the bigger problem: Terrans really didn't go with the times and don't do enough for a better gender distribution across the different jobs.
Nearly everything can be grouped into a lazy solution, an ideal solution, or a cute solutions. In the context of HT drops:
Ideal: scout the shuttle, place goliaths/early game wraith on its path Lazy: Put an excessive amount of turrets/mines everywhere to deter him from doing drops against you Cute (in no particular order): Ghost with lockdown vs shuttle, medics in mineral lines, late-game cloak wraiths, EMP the HTs when they drop, Yamato cannon shuttles,
Everyone should strive for the ideal solution, but we all end up taking the lazy solution at some point. Cute solutions only work if there's a huge gap (skill or resources) between the two players, or if both players are screwing around.
On August 11 2021 12:31 imBLIND wrote: Cute (in no particular order): Ghost with lockdown vs shuttle, medics in mineral lines, late-game cloak wraiths, EMP the HTs when they drop, Yamato cannon shuttles,
lmao that got me laughing for a good minute. Yamato gun is brilliant. You can also scout the shuttle leaving, calculate time to reach your base, launch the nuke behind your mineral line just in time for it to arrive and remove workers a second prior to the blast. Is that cute or what?!
Don't know why everyone is treating this like a terrible idea. If a single medic can save 6 scvs around the time storm drops occur, that'll surely be worth it. The only problem being that your barracks would had long flown off somewhere and the medic would likely be stormed with the scvs. Pros don't do a lot of things that would seem to be beneficial, like research science vessel energy or making a queen to infest a floating CC. Doesn't mean it is a bad idea.
Not a bad idea, although I cannot help but think this is sort of akin to the way zergs build one spore in their main and call it a day in terms of defense against harassment. With that being said, I think this is such a low cost thing to do that if you have the APM to spare in mid to lategame then sure, could be useful.
On August 08 2021 08:27 iPlaY.NettleS wrote: If it was worthwhile the pros would have done it by now.
By this logic, the development of tactics and strategy would have remained the same ever since the first pros appeared. The game is still evolving when it comes to details.
If you see how it's not worthwhile, point it out. To me it seems like it should be, as it takes just a dozen of clicks.
On August 08 2021 08:27 iPlaY.NettleS wrote: If it was worthwhile the pros would have done it by now.
That's what they said about using Queens
"Broodling takes too long! Just make more muta or switch into ultra/swarm by that point!" - that is, until pros started doing it and showing it's cost-efficient for Zerg, especially if you can broodling some tanks to take out an expansion
Then they said that about valkyries vs. muta
"It doesn't work, they just bring scourge and the valkyrie gets stuck while firing!"
That is, until people discovered a new kind of valkyrie micro
People are now experimenting with DAs vs. Zerg as well. Just because pros haven't done it, doesn't mean it won't be used in the future
On August 08 2021 08:27 iPlaY.NettleS wrote: If it was worthwhile the pros would have done it by now.
That's what they said about using Queens
"Broodling takes too long! Just make more muta or switch into ultra/swarm by that point!" - that is, until pros started doing it and showing it's cost-efficient for Zerg, especially if you can broodling some tanks to take out an expansion
Then they said that about valkyries vs. muta
"It doesn't work, they just bring scourge and the valkyrie gets stuck while firing!"
That is, until people discovered a new kind of valkyrie micro
People are now experimenting with DAs vs. Zerg as well. Just because pros haven't done it, doesn't mean it won't be used in the future
On August 08 2021 08:27 iPlaY.NettleS wrote: If it was worthwhile the pros would have done it by now.
By this logic, the development of tactics and strategy would have remained the same ever since the first pros appeared. The game is still evolving when it comes to details.
If you see how it's not worthwhile, point it out. To me it seems like it should be, as it takes just a dozen of clicks.
Well a medic only costs 50/25 so I can't knock it that much.It's unlikely to lose you the game.
I just think it's very marginal, and you must watch the medic does not run into the storm to try repair scvs.Unless you are hold positioning in base and then heal later.But either way I don't really care enough to defend the position much.If you already have several damaged scvs, could be worthwhile.
On August 04 2021 08:40 MeSaber wrote: I think you instead need to fix drops from happening. Shuttles die quite fast and some turrets make nice work of it with a floating building or vessel as hill vision. Can also get one wraith to help with shuttle killing.
A few vults to kill the single HT that actually survives the shuttle attack.
If you let shuttle drop, it will in most cases be 2 HTs so your SCVs are dead anyway if you let it happen.
A single mine also works unless its too close to SCVs.
Fun fact: If you use Patrol with Medic it will always go back after healing instead of staying where it was last healing. This way you could get one Medic for many expansions by using queue-patrolling (many patrols in a circle(3 or more spots)) which means you only need one.
Look what happened to this noob T here: and then look what happens at 53:40. if he was on your level, he'd never allow it ofc.
Literally exactly what I described in the OP
Also, please explain to me how come in the first drop, Snow dropped 3 HTs, yet your prediction of "If you let shuttle drop, it will in most cases be 2 HTs so your SCVs are dead anyway if you let it happen." didn't come true and not a single SCV died? :/
On October 24 2021 14:47 MeSaber wrote: No scv would have survived if he didnt know about the drop.
Medic heals 2 HP per E. Thats 400 HP total or 8 SCVs with 10 HP each. One medic wouldnt have changed anything.
Ok, and why didn't you address anything that I wrote? All your assumptions were wrong, while mine would work out if the second drop comes later.
Edit: btw you also again wrote a wrong statement, saying that one medic wouldn't have changed a thing.
If the medic was just born (had 50E) after the first drop was finished, by the time the second drop came (75 game seconds later), she would have recharged another 56E. In total that's 106E = 212 HP = 4 SCVs healed from 10HP to 60HP = 4 more SCVS likely survive the second drop.
On August 08 2021 12:32 MeSaber wrote: I reply how much i want thank you. Yes you dissected it until it had no context making each phrase look like a noob talking.
Be a man and stand up for you being wrong. Anyone can see what you did as its in text.
You just want to defend your stupid medic shit and you know it.
On October 24 2021 14:47 MeSaber wrote: No scv would have survived if he didnt know about the drop.
Medic heals 2 HP per E. Thats 400 HP total or 8 SCVs with 10 HP each. One medic wouldnt have changed anything.
Ok, and why didn't you address anything that I wrote? All your assumptions were wrong, while mine would work out if the second drop comes later.
Edit: btw you also again wrote a wrong statement, saying that one medic wouldn't have changed a thing.
If the medic was just born (had 50E) after the first drop was finished, by the time the second drop came (75 game seconds later), she would have recharged another 56E. In total that's 106E = 212 HP = 4 SCVs healed from 10HP to 60HP = 4 more SCVS likely survive the second drop.
You fail to realize the first shuttle was known while the second was not. Second storm would have killed everything even at full HP. You are too narrow minded to understand basic foresighting. Most likely because you play this game so rarely or at a beginner level that you have no idea how a good game plays out.
Ask any pro if a medic would have changed that scenario and they will say the same.
SCV can run through one storm and survive but not if its caught with pants down like 2nd shuttle. You need to know in advance so you can outrun the most common drop points just like the first shuttle where HTs didnt reach for perfect storms.
Now i gave you the best possible scenario, a medic will full E and showed you that it wouldnt even heal all SCVs at place and you tell me a new medic would change anything by healing 4-5 SCVs out of 15+. Not even a full E medic would have changed the outcome and thats exactly my point no matter the scenario you try this with.
This is some silly shit to be talking about so ill just stop. Show me some empirical proof that a medic would change the scenario and ill believe you then. Even better convince a pro to use it...
On August 08 2021 12:32 MeSaber wrote: I reply how much i want thank you. Yes you dissected it until it had no context making each phrase look like a noob talking.
Be a man and stand up for you being wrong. Anyone can see what you did as its in text.
You just want to defend your stupid medic shit and you know it.
What's yours? You're completely missing the point. Attention is a resource, OP is suggesting a technique that has a small up front cost in attention to help vs storm drops and you dismiss it because you can spend a lot of attention to catch a drop. This is not a valid comparison.
The reason people don't do this is because you need the barracks to scout, so by the time you have an academy the rax can no longer produce a medic. Furthermore, you'd patrol the medic, which would create dangerous situations such as ramp blocks and so on.
What's yours? You're completely missing the point. Attention is a resource, OP is suggesting a technique that has a small up front cost in attention to help vs storm drops and you dismiss it because you can spend a lot of attention to catch a drop. This is not a valid comparison.
The reason people don't do this is because you need the barracks to scout, so by the time you have an academy the rax can no longer produce a medic. Furthermore, you'd patrol the medic, which would create dangerous situations such as ramp blocks and so on.
Ya reactive vs proactive is the name of the game.
I would rather kill the shuttle than get stormed and hope some SCVs survive (and medic) so i can heal them for toss to do the same thing again in a minute.
How you dont find this a valid comparison is beyond me.
If people wanna have a medic with their SCVs be my guest. Just dont cry when it all get stormed to pieces.
Talk about underestimating storms power.
Im done here. If you get some replays of this ever happening i would gladly watch it but i wouldnt be surprised if the medic dies before it gets to do its thing.
If people wanna have a medic with their SCVs be my guest. Just dont cry when it all get stormed to pieces.
The medic isn't there to heal during storms, it's there to top off health in-between storms. Do you actually think that OP advocates just not moving the SCVs out of storms? I swear you're so dense light bends around you
I think this would be a good idea if you were going medics for blind already. But it's definitely a lot less than optimal, especially if you're just randomly adding it to your mech, since you should be able to stop storm drops ideally with turrets, vision, and maybe a wraith or two. Most SCVs will die by first storm drop if you're not watching your screen in the first place, so the benefit of the medics is mostly useless.
Example games of TvP using medic blind + mines where this strategy might be a good idea:
Notice though, this strategy is only on Matchpoint due to unique geometry and might not be cross applicable, and was played more than 10 years ago, so might not be relevant to current meta.
It's very simple guys. The medic over time will heal damaged scvs to full health so they are less likely to die from another storm drop. It's a basic thing to do but it will most likely not have any meaningful benefit. It can be argued in a late game pvt its not even worth the time to make the medic ( your rax is lifted and scouting). Beyond that the time it will take to repair the scvs etc. In theory it could provide a handful of scvs that wont die to a secondary storm drop because they will be healed back to full life. However is that worth the lack of info/tanking from a lifted rax? It's highly highly questionable. It has nothing to do with build etc. Only what you are doing with your rax and if the 1 medic will actually benefit you. If they are repeatedly storm droping scvs with 1 templar for example it would be great. If they drop with 3 templars and you are not prepared it will be useless. If you have no sight over a cliff because you would normally spot with the rax you are making the medic from you will have lost out massively. This is really a minor thing though. In late game apms are very valuable. Its better to focus on winning the game out right all the time...not healing scvs with minor tricks. That being said it's a potentially useful thing.
We're not even at the point yet where all professional players utilize the 'Return Cargo' command whenever they send their workers back to gather minerals after dodging harassment. Such inefficiency smh :p
1. I suggested this as a very small +EV thing, mostly because I like trying to use new things in a game as old as this. That being said, after some users pointed out that Barracks is always lifted at that point, I'm not longer sure it's a good move.
2. Anyone suggesting that storm drops can dealt with EXCLUSIVELY thru prevention is misguided because otherwise no single storm drop would occur on the pro level. So this argument isn't good.
3. Don't focus on what can be done in one specific scenario, whether you notice the drop early or late. Things like this must be evaluated with the perspective of hundreds of situations where a storm drop occurs. Would a medic help in SOME of them? Yes. Is that positive change worth the cost of a medic? It's very easy to calculate, or make an estimation.
my conclusion: The crucial thing boils down to whether it's worth it to land the barracks. All other arguments against it I've seen here are not good.
On October 24 2021 14:47 MeSaber wrote: No scv would have survived if he didnt know about the drop.
Medic heals 2 HP per E. Thats 400 HP total or 8 SCVs with 10 HP each. One medic wouldnt have changed anything.
Ok, and why didn't you address anything that I wrote? All your assumptions were wrong, while mine would work out if the second drop comes later.
Edit: btw you also again wrote a wrong statement, saying that one medic wouldn't have changed a thing.
If the medic was just born (had 50E) after the first drop was finished, by the time the second drop came (75 game seconds later), she would have recharged another 56E. In total that's 106E = 212 HP = 4 SCVs healed from 10HP to 60HP = 4 more SCVS likely survive the second drop.
You fail to realize the first shuttle was known while the second was not.
Ok. And you can't imagine a scenario where the second shuttle would be seen too, and had a similar effect as the first one? You can't emulate ideas in your head?
Second storm would have killed everything even at full HP. You are too narrow minded to understand basic foresighting.
No, the problem is that you're focusing on 1 specific game and are unable to think about ideas in general.
you have no idea how a good game plays out.
Please explain to Light how a good TvP game should be played, and how he can better prevent storm drops.
Ask any pro if a medic would have changed that scenario and they will say the same.
That's a laughable thing to say in a debate.
SCV can run through one storm and survive but not if its caught with pants down like 2nd shuttle. You need to know in advance so you can outrun the most common drop points just like the first shuttle where HTs didnt reach for perfect storms.
How much do you charge coaching lessons. I'll try to arrange some with Light, so you can teach him prevention.
Now i gave you the best possible scenario, a medic will full E and showed you that it wouldnt even heal all SCVs at place and you tell me a new medic would change anything by healing 4-5 SCVs out of 15+.
Uhmmmm... yep. What's your point? I didn't say the medic will protect every single SCV from dieing, and you're obviously agreeing with me that it could save up to 30% of SCVs for a cost of 50min 25gas.
Not even a full E medic would have changed the outcome and thats exactly my point no matter the scenario you try this with.
Ummm, wrong.
This is some silly shit to be talking about so ill just stop. Show me some empirical proof that a medic would change the scenario and ill believe you then. Even better convince a pro to use it...
This is a very simple idea. If you can't understand, then we'll just have to wait for it to happen in a high level game. If it ever happens because, as others have pointed out, the barracks is usually floating and plays it's part in scouting.
On October 27 2021 23:26 Magic Powers wrote: We're not even at the point yet where all professional players utilize the 'Return Cargo' command whenever they send their workers back to gather minerals after dodging harassment. Such inefficiency smh :p
This was my biggest pet peeve for years actually, but I just accepted I will probably never live to see that day ^^
i've seen Brain do this in 1v1 fastest map, but it's much more viable there because people often start bio in tvp, and also all your SCVs are in the same place
I suppose if you lose your rax and remake it it might be viable to make one, but I still think that the risk of having a patrolling medic block a rally-point is too high for the rather meagre pay-off. I think the death-knell is that you need to do this pre-emptively. If you have suffered several storm drops, a medic spawning with 50 energy simply won't be able to heal your SCVs very well.
Still, I think it's an idea that deserved being discussed, and the reason it's not viable is more subtle than it seems on surface level.
PvT has shifted away from "do I get Arbiters or I do get Carriers" and towards "I will keep 3--6 Shuttles active at all times and pump HTs and do storm drops so you can never max your supply."
Terrans are adapting. TvP is being played differently than it was 2 months ago. These days Terrans are leaving big mech armies inside their main to prevent double Shuttle plays at key moments. They're doubling up their turrets. They're massing Vultures in mineral lines to make sure HTs don't have time to cast psionic storm.
I don't know whether Medics are going to pay off, but I'm not surprised Terrans are willing to try new ways to adapt. The idea is clearly on Royal's radar, meaning we'll soon know by watching his matches whether he found it useful.
On March 12 2022 23:40 Piste wrote: worth it if it has the time to heal some of the scv's, waste if it does not.
I would like to contest that statement. If HT drop comes after the healing and kills all SCVs even though they had full HP how is that "worth it"?
What you are saying is that LUCK plays a huge role in whether the aggressor(P) is good enough to predict the opponents(T) SCV movement to be able to storm at the most accurate position.
If opponent totally lack awareness that position is easy to locate, but how will you know opponent doesnt react and move SCVs to a totally unpredicted location in the opposite direction?
The answer is simple: You cant predict what will happen as its all luck so by that buying a medic to heal SCVs to prevent em from dying in a random event is an hilarious thought-experiment to say the least. Sure it MIGHT help having em all healed but it could just as well not.
So by that Royal believes fully healed SCVs are better than not but in reality its just a guess, it could just as well be a waste of cash and no visual awareness with Rax which might prove to be "worth" more. I.e moving SCVs before the shuttle arrives or intercept it before it reaches destination.
On March 12 2022 23:40 Piste wrote: worth it if it has the time to heal some of the scv's, waste if it does not.
I would like to contest that statement. If HT drop comes after the healing and kills all SCVs even though they had full HP how is that "worth it"?
You should be moving your scvs away if a HT drop comes. SCV's with full health wont die in that case, but the scv's that are already damaged will. This is why it's typical to see not too many scv's dying with the first storm drop, but way more with the second one.
For beginners with slow reaction time this trick is not worth it.
I did the storm vs mass scv test and yes, no SCV died in ONE storm. Thats a good point but that would be rare cases as its more often than not 2 HTs.
Edit: After doing a proper test with minerals and gas i found out that one SCV died out of 12 (stormed first and reacted immediately, it cornered a mineral so that took time), all SCVs had either 4 or 18 HP. If you add a Zealot to the mix with +1 wep you can kill each SCV in one blow.
The Medic should be stationed close to gas with patrol (it will return to this position after healing) so it wont start in the storm and remain at full HP.
What about not building a medic in advance, but if a storm drop comes in and you’re fast enough to save all your workers at low health, building a medic at that time and walking it around your workers?
On March 18 2022 16:22 bovienchien wrote: how about there is only a medic per bases without scvs?
Now that would be a funny sight for toss trying to storm drop. Big brain plays.
You sneak your shuttle around the map for a storm drop, but there's a spotter medic in the empty base along the way. She tags your shuttle with an optic flare, and you careen blindly into a missile turret.
14:20: Storm drop on Sharp's 3rd; many SCVs hurt Sharp has a rax right at that base. 15:37: Another storm drop. Only one storm fired, but 7--8 SCVs are killed because they were all already hurt.
Seems like a clear example where one medic can save several times its cost in SCVs' lives.
14:20: Storm drop on Sharp's 3rd; many SCVs hurt Sharp has a rax right at that base. 15:37: Another storm drop. Only one storm fired, but 7--8 SCVs are killed because they were all already hurt.
Seems like a clear example where one medic can save several times its cost in SCVs' lives.
Yes, thanks for pointing it out. That's why I started this thread, it happens very often in pro games. The reaction times are great, so first storm drop doesn't kill almost anything, but still, the 2nd and 3rd drop can be deadly, even with amazing reaction time.
I think this tweak will be standard for terrans a few years down the line..
EPT
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