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Bisu had a disastrous PvT performance following his exit in the recent ASL Season 10 Ro24 group A match. His decisions at times were questionable and his unit micro as well as tactical awareness were poor.
The below is a simple breakdown on his mistakes and what he can do better in the PvT matchup.
Versus Leta matchup:
1.Wrong Targeting/ Unit Micro
Bisu's unit micro was questionable at times. Zealots should be targeting tanks, not vultures, and he should pull his dragoons back when he couldn't break the tank lines.
![[image loading]](https://i.imgur.com/za7xjQF.jpg)
![[image loading]](https://i.imgur.com/JO37zcR.jpg)
2.Opting for recall first instead of stasis
Usually, when the Terran goes for a timing attack, it is always better to go stasis first to limit the Terran push. Recalls only work when the Protoss is practically ahead in the matchup where he can then sacrifice the recalled units to deal damage to the eco, main or natural.
![[image loading]](https://i.imgur.com/LNbvjmP.jpg)
Versus JyJ matchup:
1.Wrong Targeting/ Unit Micro
Again, zealots should be targeting tanks, not vultures, and he should pull his dragoons back in time.
![[image loading]](https://i.imgur.com/mu2Ouv0.jpg)
![[image loading]](https://i.imgur.com/iiiRH2m.jpg)
2.Carriers flanked by Goliaths
Here, Bisu's carriers were being flanked left and right by JyJ's goliaths, which proved vital in reducing the carrier count.
![[image loading]](https://i.imgur.com/qK65XP8.jpg)
![[image loading]](https://i.imgur.com/ZyNQnsZ.jpg)
3.No HTs/ Storms
Often, storms are used to break the Terran contain. A bit surprising here to see Bisu not opting for HTs and storms, or maybe he was too late as they could be invaluable in breaking the Terran push together with carriers and gateway units.
What do you guys think?
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I think you are analyzing the result rather than the cause.
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Vs Leta
1) Bisu was behind army-wise, he should have not commited to the attack. Even with perfect micro, I do not think he would have won that engagement. He needed to buy time, make Leta siege-unsiege untill he could muster a greater force, or his stasis had finished researching.
2) Most likely Bisu researched Recall before Stasis. Probably he did not have Statis available. Anyway, it was a desperate move at that time, he was so dead.
Vs JyJ
1) That attack felt unorganized. The Carriers came a bit late, the Zealots and Dragoons didnt work in sync. He didnt have the patience to carry out a proper fight.
2) Yeah.. attacking JyJs base from that angle, not doing any real damage, and getting flanked, a desperate move.
3) Maybe, but he was so screwed from 1) and the consequent push, probably didnt have the economy for it.
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Even from the beginning, I don't understand why he'd go for a proxy robo against leta. Leta's tvp isn't great (especially on that map) and it feels like Bisu should have just played standard (maybe eco greedy because of the map).
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"Bisu could have had better micro when it came to his engages in PvT"
-- Everyone who has watched even a single Bisu PvT except that one single double shuttle game that was impressive
Quick, link the video of him amazingly shooting some mines with retreating dragoons!
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vs leta he went 12 N into proxy robo, big gamble, his robo got scouted and then he had no obs and leta took map control with mines, the rest doesn't matter as much, he was behind from the start
vs jyj going carriers in close positions is a big gamble as well, he got scouted again and his engagements weren't great as the OP said so game over
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So uncharacteristic of him to make mistakes, wtf.
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vs Leta
#2 Bisu had already lost, this didn't matter.
vs JyJ
#1 I'm not sure why Bisu attacked at all. To me that's more important than the zealot positioning.
#2 Bisu had already lost, this didn't matter.
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Should become a Patreon of BSL, they offer coaching.
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On September 08 2020 08:04 LG)Sabbath wrote:
vs leta he went 12 N into proxy robo, big gamble, his robo got scouted and then he had no obs and leta took map control with mines, the rest doesn't matter as much, he was behind from the start
vs jyj going carriers in close positions is a big gamble as well, he got scouted again and his engagements weren't great as the OP said so game over
The proxy robo is Indeed strange. Bisu saw 2 marines so at worst he could have faced rax fe. Why not play safe, 12 nex is a huge advantage for toss and with even without obs should be alble to punish fact triple...
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Game 1 : Bisu's robo was scouted, Leta destroyed it and went -> Vulture -> Mine -> 3ple Command to punish lack of observers.
Is really difficult to come back at this point 3 base vs 3 base with protoss 3rd delayed.
gg
game 2 : Bisu has been playing Carriers in practice and spon matches like 90% of the time since polypoid came out...
JyJ knew that min only expo is bad vs carriers cause u can't produce enough goli in time to stop 4 carrier timing, so he timed 4 scans to confirm carriers and if no citadel + 2ble stargate he would take his gas expo as his 2nd natural.
11 vs 1 didint help bisu either.
well planed game by JyJ
gg
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Willjay84 my dude, I think you have the best intentions, but much like your "possible counter to 973 hydra bust" thread you just clearly don't really understand the fundamentals of the game. I appreciate that you're wanting to put in effort and be constructive, but unfortunately I just don't think you're a good enough player to do so correctly.
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op i think you're wrong ( :
good points xenosky
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Bulgaria750 Posts
Bisu's proxy was a high risk, high reward situation. With a backdoor expo oriented towards his main I think it was just too tempting. Conversely, going for a quick third behind mines Leta knew he'd suffer from reaver play, plus he saw a single gate and it just made sense - would Bisu go for a quick second gate and range in this scenario on this map? He has nothing to pressure. Robo tech made a lot of sense and I still think he was just going on an intercept when he found the robo.
Smart guy Leta.
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United States10360 Posts
On September 08 2020 09:54 TelecoM wrote:
So uncharacteristic of him to make mistakes, wtf.
Bisu has some of the worst Carrier control out of all Protoss. As soon as I watched the game and saw Bisu going carriers, I just facepalmed and expected JyJ to win after that.
Game 1 can be explained by Bisu falling incredibly far behind by losing his proxy robo. Leta already knew what was coming after he killed the robo and he got his 3rd incredibly fast. Bisu was on the backfoot the whole game from that point forward, I don't blame him for losing that one. Did he need to proxy? No.
Game 2: Bisu carrier. In the same way that Best's corsairs are nicknamed "Doh-sairs", Bisu's carrier control should be nicknamed something like "Taek carriers". Also, Bisu's army control in PvT for whatever reason has been historically awful. Realy bad engagements, poor micro within fights. He really should study replays from Stork/Best/Rain to understand how to successfully take engagements in late game PvT.
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lol guy in the chat :he microwed wrong look!: what actually happened bisus proxy robo destroyed proxy robo did nothing put him miles and miles behind also no obs for 10min k thx guy in the chaaat!
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On September 09 2020 09:22 FlaShFTW wrote:Show nested quote +On September 08 2020 09:54 TelecoM wrote:
So uncharacteristic of him to make mistakes, wtf. Bisu has some of the worst Carrier control out of all Protoss. As soon as I watched the game and saw Bisu going carriers, I just facepalmed and expected JyJ to win after that. Game 1 can be explained by Bisu falling incredibly far behind by losing his proxy robo. Leta already knew what was coming after he killed the robo and he got his 3rd incredibly fast. Bisu was on the backfoot the whole game from that point forward, I don't blame him for losing that one. Did he need to proxy? No. Game 2: Bisu carrier. In the same way that Best's corsairs are nicknamed "Doh-sairs", Bisu's carrier control should be nicknamed something like "Taek carriers". Also, Bisu's army control in PvT for whatever reason has been historically awful. Realy bad engagements, poor micro within fights. He really should study replays from Stork/Best/Rain to understand how to successfully take engagements in late game PvT.
bisus carrier with the signature 4zealot shuttle drop to take down turrets fast / harass actually made quite an impact on the scene took down flash among others :-) (pre army)
I think your analysis is often very inaccurate but obviously he didn do well this time or after return from military service how ever u wanna see it
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United States10360 Posts
On September 10 2020 00:55 onlystar wrote:Show nested quote +On September 09 2020 09:22 FlaShFTW wrote:On September 08 2020 09:54 TelecoM wrote:
So uncharacteristic of him to make mistakes, wtf. Bisu has some of the worst Carrier control out of all Protoss. As soon as I watched the game and saw Bisu going carriers, I just facepalmed and expected JyJ to win after that. Game 1 can be explained by Bisu falling incredibly far behind by losing his proxy robo. Leta already knew what was coming after he killed the robo and he got his 3rd incredibly fast. Bisu was on the backfoot the whole game from that point forward, I don't blame him for losing that one. Did he need to proxy? No. Game 2: Bisu carrier. In the same way that Best's corsairs are nicknamed "Doh-sairs", Bisu's carrier control should be nicknamed something like "Taek carriers". Also, Bisu's army control in PvT for whatever reason has been historically awful. Realy bad engagements, poor micro within fights. He really should study replays from Stork/Best/Rain to understand how to successfully take engagements in late game PvT. bisus carrier with the signature 4zealot shuttle drop to take down turrets fast / harass actually made quite an impact on the scene took down flash among others :-) (pre army) I think your analysis is often very inaccurate but obviously he didn do well this time or after return from military service how ever u wanna see it
I've never been impressed with Bisu's carrier control. Maybe my memory is wrong but every time I watch him use it, I'm watching him fail miserably and wishing that Snow or Stork were playing instead.
Could you show me his pre-military carrier games?
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On September 09 2020 09:22 FlaShFTW wrote:
Game 2: Bisu carrier. In the same way that Best's corsairs are nicknamed "Doh-sairs", Bisu's carrier control should be nicknamed something like "Taek carriers". Also, Bisu's army control in PvT for whatever reason has been historically awful. Realy bad engagements, poor micro within fights. He really should study replays from Stork/Best/Rain to understand how to successfully take engagements in late game PvT. Speaking of carrier play, I cannot encourage you guys enough to go watch set 4 of recent UBE event Snow vs Flash
Compared to Bisu's Ro24, it's day and night.
Instead of throwing away units for free, Snow is very patient, and does an incredible job at keeping his ground army just out of range of the tanks, so he can slow the push, snipe some tanks, and instantly jump on any goliath chasing his retreating carriers. Really impressive stuff.
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United States10360 Posts
On September 10 2020 06:53 Grouhh wrote:Show nested quote +On September 09 2020 09:22 FlaShFTW wrote:
Game 2: Bisu carrier. In the same way that Best's corsairs are nicknamed "Doh-sairs", Bisu's carrier control should be nicknamed something like "Taek carriers". Also, Bisu's army control in PvT for whatever reason has been historically awful. Realy bad engagements, poor micro within fights. He really should study replays from Stork/Best/Rain to understand how to successfully take engagements in late game PvT. Speaking of carrier play, I cannot encourage you guys enough to go watch set 4 of recent UBE event Snow vs FlashCompared to Bisu's Ro24, it's day and night. Instead of throwing away units for free, Snow is very patient, and does an incredible job at keeping his ground army just out of range of the tanks, so he can slow the push, snipe some tanks, and instantly jump on any goliath chasing his retreating carriers. Really impressive stuff.
See, this is why I'm confused about Bisu's carrier play. He's so good with reavers and corsairs as harassing units where he picks off units bit by bit, but how is he bad with carriers when they function very similarly? Snow played this game really well and his carrier control impeccable.
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EPT
