[PvZ] Possible counter to 973 Hydra-bust

willjay84

17 Posts

August 31 2020 17:15 GMT

Hi, guys,

Best recently defeated Zero twice in the Ultimate Battle Event as in the links below:-

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KmWxrvUHZiY&t=1h30m10s

Here are some of the points from Best's gameplay which I think are crucial:-

1. Put in double cannons at the 1st natural/ choke point when lings are scouted to prevent a possible ling all-in.

2. Critical number of corsairs - about 3, to snipe Overlords and to slow Zerg's production. Too many corsairs might not be effective as the Zerg will then train Scourges in combination with mutas or hydras.

3. Mass gateways (about 8 gateways built) before the 11th minute mark to ramp up gateway units production.

4. Unit composition. Often, the dragoons are neglected in favour of more zealots in PvZ, and only trained to counter mutas from sniping HTs. However, dragoons do provide cover for HTs as they have a ranged attack and they can also provide meat shields to the HTs when positioned ahead of the HT in the firing line.

Note that dragoons do not necessarily counter hydras but their range attack coupled with a mix of zealots and storms will counter the hydra-bust as shown by Best in the links above.

What do you guys think?

BlueStar

Bulgaria1167 Posts

August 31 2020 17:42 GMT

I think that all the things you mentioned are a natural thing to any Protoss who is playing vs zerg. It's much more needed than just that.

Your list looks good, except that in point 2 you wanted to write to your 1st natural. (Natural is the base you get once you are out of your main base.)

willjay84

17 Posts

August 31 2020 17:57 GMT

On September 01 2020 02:42 BlueStar wrote:
I think that all the things you mentioned are a natural thing to any Protoss who is playing vs zerg. It's much more needed than just that.

Your list looks good, except that in point 2 you wanted to write to your 1st natural. (Natural is the base you get once you are out of your main base.)

Hi, thanks. I've corrected it. Maybe someone else can write down Best's build order in this matchup. I think it might be useful.

FlaShFTW

United States10193 Posts

September 01 2020 00:03 GMT

I think the ranged goons tech might become more relevant as a way to counter the fact that hydras can counter zealots with micro and protoss would eventually bleed out of minerals trying to build more zealots to delay time for cannons/storm.

TT1

Canada10010 Posts

September 01 2020 00:13 GMT

what does any of this have to do with 973? you're talking about regular pvz gameplay, 973 is an early game hydra bust?

willjay84

17 Posts

September 01 2020 01:59 GMT

On September 01 2020 09:13 TT1 wrote:
what does any of this have to do with 973? you're talking about regular pvz gameplay, 973 is an early game hydra bust?

The 973 in general is a reference to a specific drone count timing in my opinion to keep the Zerg economy running and is popularized by Zero. It is not just confined to an early hydra bust but also various all-in timings and builds depending on situations and style.

Avi-Love

Denmark423 Posts

September 01 2020 10:50 GMT

Dude your title specifically says "Possible counter to 973 Hydra-Bust". The game in question has neither 973 or a hydra bust. Zero opens 9p 2nd hatch, speed, cut gas third hatch -> pure macro. The other game is on Plasma which is a semi-island map.

Aeternum

Latvia35 Posts

September 01 2020 14:59 GMT

Willjay84, concerning the title of your post, to my knowledge, 973 refers only to the hydra bust timing as it represents the drone count per base that can sustain 3 hatch hydra production for a potential hydra bust but can also transition to macro play on 3 bases or 4 bases in which case it would be called 9734- 973 meaning the hydra bust and 4 meaning u take the 4th at a different location.

Regarding your points in the post about general pvz ideas:
1. After opening forge u should build 2 canons if you scout no hatch and 6 lings thats just a general play to prevent the 6 lings from runing into your main base, if u build only 1 canon in your natural, you would have to pull probes to block the entrance
2. if you suspect zerg might go muta you should generally get at least 5 corsairs with +1, but if you scout lair after 5 hatcheries as in the game above ( which is a late lair as it generally comes after 3 hatch) spire is gona be late and you dont really need more than the 3 corsairs early on.
3. Scouting lair after 5h is also what can allow you to go fast 8 gates as you know you are gona be facing massive amounts of hydra. In general if you scout late lair you dont need to worry about lurker or muta so you can safely go 8 gates before adding more corsairs or robotics, but if the lair is fast you should get your robo after 6 gates
4. is probably debatable- Bisu really likes going mass zealots and templars before adding in goons but if you choose to play this way you must be attacking and trading with your zealot and templar constantly to prevent zerg from switching to muta. This however requires good zealot micro and multitasking( which Bisu ofc has), Best on the other hand is more macro oriented and controls his big armies well so more goons and big ball attacks fit him well.
just my 20 cents

willjay84

17 Posts

September 02 2020 02:28 GMT

Thanks for the input. Is there any way that I can change the title?

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[PvZ] Possible counter to 973 Hydra-bust

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