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Historically we see Corsairs research D-Web in Sair Reaver builds, but why don't we see progamers utilize them in normal PvZ games? We recently saw how units like Valkyries and Queens are utilized to great effect, why not explore D-Web a bit more?
Arguments for Corsair D-Web
-Protoss is the race to use the most abilities to crowd control and equalize the battle with spells rather than to try to compete in pure numbers.
-You already invest heavily into dominating the air with 5+ corsairs, as long as they survive, why not use them to their maximum potential of helping your battles out instead of just killing OLs and denying map control?
-Fleet beacon (300 min 250 gas) + Energy upgrade (100/100) + Dweb research (200/200) = 600/550 resources vs the survival rate of protoss army atking a zerg army/lurker spore/ sunk defense without the help of Dweb. What do you think will save you more resources in the long run?
How many zealots/goons and hts do you waste trying to bulldoze the zerg entrenched forces? A few well placed d-webs will take a considerable amount of splash dmg away from the lurkers from the battle for a good amount of time. This isn't to forgo hts/storms, but more of a supplement alongside. If you didn't lose your corsairs, you can make them actually a part of your atking army by taking out a considerable amount of forces from the zerg momentarily for those few precious seconds as they try to regroup, your army should have free podshots at them, softening them up if they try to retreat.
Arguments against D-web
-It takes too much resources away from the normal army unit composition. You invest 600/550 as we saw from adding all the upgrades and building cost, and you don't change building corsairs because you already invest them anyways, what is 600/550 investment going to do for you when you save much of your army from normal engagements? If you are worried about timing and not being able to afford right away to make a difference, you are thinking too short term. You gradually build up your corsairs and save them, while getting the necessary upgrades gradually as the game progresses. There's a point where once you reach mid to late game, protoss has the resources to spare and is just floating 2k minerals to bank on after you max out.
-Zerg is more hydra heavy in the meta as of now. This is the only argument that I think has merit because it heavily depends on zerg being more immobile and taking more defensive posture while also trying to counter atk. If Zerg goes hydra heavy, then sure don't bother investing in d-web, but eventually they make lurkers if the game still progresses to later game.
Zerg meta has been to take a 3rd close to their other bases rather than the old meta of taking a natural and then getting a free fourth, so Zerg taking a fourth usually is their weak point as Protoss can take advantage of Zerg's defensive posture. So D-web shouldn't be used in every game of course and should depend on the specific strategy and build, but I think it should be utilized more often given the opportunity.
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Arguments against: Is also mechanically demanding when you already have HT/Reaver/Shuttle to control.
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I think there's a better argument for scouts over corsair/dweb in PvZ.
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I think from the novel things, arbiters >> scouts > dweb.
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Besides being mechanically demanding, that 600/550 will eventually become dead weight as there are no other fleet beacon options in PvZ (as far as I know). It also doesn't play well with speedlots, which are important against hydra. It may be a worthy late game strat against huge sunken farms if you can overwhelm your z in supply to begin with, and it also might be useful for drops. I will say that I've never seen it decisively turn the tables in any game by itself, though many have tried.
Technically off-topic, but DA's with maelstrom have always been an effective but scarcely employed follow-up to dt strats. Maelstrom timings are not well known at my rank so I plan to explore them more in my own games, and I will be looking out for fringe cases where d web works too.
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Arguments for: Play a creative strategy that is unusual to bring more enjoyment to the game. If you play only textbook openings like Jealous then you are missing a large part of this game.
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Exploring arbiters PvZ may be worth looking at but looking at the ratio of gas units that already need to be used, may not leave room for arbiters in an optimal game. Corsairs are already part of the natural tree path of a normal PvZ. The only added investment would be the 600/550 research and building costs. So relative to the additional investment you make for D-web research vs arbiters where they suck away the gas you'd normally be spending on HTs/archons may be too much. But we would have to be more precise in the math equation to see if it's optimal in the resource department.
I'd argue that if you're having 4-6 corsairs, that would be enough to where you wouldn't need to add the apm strain for reavers, since d-web takes out a good amount of lurkers in position and they have to unburrow and move while your army atks them which alternatively accomplishes the same goal that the reaver does only it does it in a more forceful way of splash dmg. I think if you go d-web with corsairs against a hydra heavy army, you'd probably would do well to have a more goon centric force with zealots being the expendable unit. Goons with d-web disabling a good chunk of forces scrambling to get out of the webs and into a good area of atk, they may be disorganized while the goons can pick off stray hydras.
Think about a normal battle scenario. You have zealots, goons hts, as your main force to deal dmg. Hydras clusters in various areas to try to form a concave atk. Your hts focus on a good clump of hydras or predicting where they will eventually be forced to move. A back and forth seesaw action of hydras moving forward and back dodging storms while your zealots in the front line and goons firing at the back. Once hydras reach a critical mass, your zealots and goons die so quickly, unless the numbers are relatively equal and the hydras are badly bruised already.
So the critical mass of hydras is where if you keep throwing away units at them, you start to snowball into a disadvantage and rely more heavily on having the perfect storms. If let's say you add d-webs into the mix, while you a-move your army, hts storm, then you can use your apm on spreading d-webs in closed off areas where it's difficult to manuever. You obviously won't engage hydras in an entirely open space but where there's a closed space, like for say fighting spirit middle base, hydras have limited direction of mobility, they can only go up or down, and if you're coming from the south, they only direction they have is north.
In any case, the best scenario to use d-webs is against lurkers and sunken/spore defenses when atking an expansion of theirs. I'm just pointing out that against hydras d-webs are still used. The only difference between d-webbing hydras in a normal PvZ and a reaver build is that you don't have the high potential of splash dmg that could destroy hydras quickly. But if you use d-web in a battle where there's plenty of goons present, then you may do less damage but you save your army.
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On April 18 2020 08:17 Alpha-NP- wrote:
Arguments for: Play a creative strategy that is unusual to bring more enjoyment to the game. If you play only textbook openings like Jealous then you are missing a large part of this game.
We can bo5 on your shitty Blizzard map island picks whenever you want bb. I thought you don't read my posts no more? Poor bb 
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Norway28733 Posts
I think there is most definitely room for more creative and regular use of dweb in pvz and that it has great underutilized potential for busting turtling zergs.
Using it in big battles vs mass hydra I am more skeptical towards, I've tried it some but apm is definitely better used towards storm, but in situations where zergs for whatever reason ended up in a defensive turtling position, I am convinced there is a window where goon+dweb allows for a potential bust that simply can't be done without it.
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It would certainly be handy against camped up Zerg bases with sunkens, lurkers and spores, while the Z can't fight you head on, but you also can't break those bases. Then dweb could be useful for obs safety and zealot safety for sure.
It's more situational though, imo. And even then you can also go reaver, which you will need late game anyway. So you have to see what's the better investment.
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On April 18 2020 15:09 Jealous wrote:Show nested quote +On April 18 2020 08:17 Alpha-NP- wrote:
Arguments for: Play a creative strategy that is unusual to bring more enjoyment to the game. If you play only textbook openings like Jealous then you are missing a large part of this game. We can bo5 on your shitty Blizzard map island picks whenever you want bb. I thought you don't read my posts no more? Poor bb
I haven’t played the game in at least 7+ years. I’m not sure why you are still salty. Grow up.
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On April 20 2020 03:38 Alpha-NP- wrote:Show nested quote +On April 18 2020 15:09 Jealous wrote:On April 18 2020 08:17 Alpha-NP- wrote:
Arguments for: Play a creative strategy that is unusual to bring more enjoyment to the game. If you play only textbook openings like Jealous then you are missing a large part of this game. We can bo5 on your shitty Blizzard map island picks whenever you want bb. I thought you don't read my posts no more? Poor bb I haven’t played the game in at least 7+ years. I’m not sure why you are still salty. Grow up.
You're the one that chose to put that snide little comment on a forum for a game you haven't played in 7+ years. Why are you even here? Go away.
User was temp banned for this post.
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I have seen some Korean pros using Dweb in PvZ. Most of the time it is used to break a Zerg that is turtling hard on 4 bases with mass Sunkens. And also sometimes you see Sair-Reaver with Disruption Web on Hydras. If the game makes it to super lategame, Disruption Web can even prevent Ultralisks from attacking Reavers.
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Fleet Beacon is 300/200. Doesn't change the argument but that just set off my OCD 
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if you have the fleet beacon for +2 and already have corsairs on the field, i think this is a great ability considering your sairs just bank energy all game. 200/200 is not a cheap research, but when the circumstances mentioned earlier are in effect, I would say it is worthwhile.
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EPT
