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[Q] PVZ: Proper response to 9734?

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chozen86 United States60 Posts October 29 2019 19:01 GMT #1 Wondering if the community has settled on how to respond to the 9734 build? The ideas so far seem to be: * Gate first * Forge in main, wall with core at nat (so +1 doesn't get denied) * Citadel first, into 4-5 gate zealot * Fast reaver Curious what others think, since it's been out for quite a bit already.

InDi Spain90 Posts October 30 2019 08:45 GMT #2 The real problem with 9734 is that there are several options for the Z, and as P it is really hard to tell and cover everything. Personally I prefer the reaver approach as I think is the most reliable answer, you get Sair as well so you can scout what their followup is. If they go for a full bust you can defend quite easy, if they drone too much, you can harrass, and if they tech you have a strong timing push. If you go reaver, you shouldn't lose your forge either, but you will lose the gate, so no need for forge in main. The problem of course is that it is harder to do and be effective. In my experience the citadel first loses to heavy hydra commitment from the Z, when you move out and realize there's not the usual 10, but 20 or 25 hydras at your door that were waiting behind... not a good feeling, but would be interested in what others think.

Soulforged Latvia984 Posts October 30 2019 09:46 GMT #3 I like citadel/4gate the most. It does lose out to non-stop 3 hatch hydra pump, but zealots+cannons should stop that, and they double as your scouting force. If you see more hydras than expected and confirm zerg didn't switch to drones, backing off to cannons and defending until storm/more gates/more units/more economy is possible. It is only a problem if you commit to try and bust out and fail. The follow-ups, however, I am not sure on. And it is also not something you can do blindly if you lack vision for whatever reason and can't confirm hydra until they pop from nat eggs...at that point you'd have sair in progress and would end up requiring more cannons and have later zealots than if you went citadel off 1 gas & straight after core.

chozen86 United States60 Posts October 30 2019 15:20 GMT #4 Yea citadel/4gate seems like the easiest option for chobos like me. The last time I tried this I didn't die but I was so chobo I forgot to resume probe production after the bust and limped through the rest of the game with like 35 probes. I'm guessing if I didn't do that the follow up is quite straightforward (double-expand behind strong 8+ gate +2 push into normal mid/late game). Out of curiosity, though, what's the general outline for the reaver approach? Add robo and rush to reaver as soon as you see den before lair or hydras? I'm assuming shuttle speed is also a must (since losing shuttle + reaver is likely gg)? I'd like to try this and see how it feels.

InDi Spain90 Posts October 31 2019 02:09 GMT #5 I don't follow straight build orders generally, but the overall idea is to get gate core, when core is almost finished you get 2nd gas, robo at your natural, starport in main, get reaver asap, sair then shuttle speed the 1st reaver should be enough to push hydras back (at this point maybe you lost your gate). If you think the Z is still committing to hydras, you get a 2nd reaver, else you get shuttle 1st, and move out to harrass, meanwhile in the back you add citadel gates and all the bunch. There's a sweet spot to move out with zealots and your reavers if Z drone'd too much or if he is teching to lurkers. You can delay a bit your templars since you get reavers for AOE. Just don't lose the reaver and beware of muta switch with your sairs

chozen86 United States60 Posts October 31 2019 04:16 GMT #6 Nice, thanks!! Follow-up: I'm assuming you also get critical mass of sairs (6 cos probably didn't go +1 air to get reaver faster) to deal with possible scourge, or does spire come so late with 9734 that it doesn't matter?

InDi Spain90 Posts November 01 2019 00:20 GMT #7 Your first sair should be able to scout if Z goes for muta or not, if you see hydras nonstop you can keep it at 1-2 sairs and use the gas on templars. Else you can add more sairs to control Zs vision of the map.

XenOsky Chile2358 Posts November 02 2019 07:56 GMT #8 imo reaver is more flexible, speed shuttles allow to harrass while zerg is still on tier 1, while adding gates for a huge push. 4 gate feels better if zerg doesnt scout my main with an ovie.

Alpha-NP- United States1242 Posts November 02 2019 15:17 GMT #9 Watch the games where Bisu goes reaver against this build.

chozen86 United States60 Posts November 02 2019 18:55 GMT #10 @Alpha-NP, this one?

Zaibakk 101 Posts November 06 2019 23:12 GMT #11 You should play around the weaknesses of the build, and the main weakness is the late spire. Without it, zergs have troubles to deal with: 1) Reavers 2) Dropships for harrassing (with anything inside) Note that reavers are also good vs mass hydra (and lurkers), both for defence (even without dropship) and push (or even harrass).

M3t4PhYzX Poland4300 Posts November 09 2019 22:18 GMT #12 On November 03 2019 03:55 chozen86 wrote: @Alpha-NP, this one? https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=240&v=gDLvQin64nY that was absolutely amazing play.. damn, so satisfying to watch! GG

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