My hope is people of ALL ranks use these secrets in their games to expand the Protoss cheese plate, build upon what I will reveal, share more maps and ways this can be done and have some fun exploring the limits of the game.
CAUTION:
DO NOT TRY THIS ON LADDER WITHOUT ADULT SUPERVISION OR HOURS OF OFFLINE TRAINING! MAY CAUSE EXTREME LOSS OF LADDER POINTS! I CAN NOT BE HELD ACCOUNTABLE FOR ANY DAMAGES RESULTING FROM YOU NOT TAKING THIS WARNING SERIOUSLY!
My experiments and research are inspired by ancient quadrupedal cliff jumping Dragoon training techniques by (and I can only assume its this person):
The magic happens at the bottom side of the gateway. So its the bottom bases of a few maps that allow this. If you plug all the holes and the gateways is close enough to the cliff your fatter units will spawn up the cliff!
Ive probably lost most Terrans at this point.. But for those of you (and I know you are out there) who are still reading and do not like to lift your buildings or want to be extremely sneaky... YOU CAN DO IT TOO!
My hope is people of ALL ranks use these secrets in their games to expand the Protoss cheese plate, build upon what I will reveal, share more maps and ways this can be done and have some fun exploring the limits of the game.
CAUTION:
DO NOT TRY THIS ON LADDER WITHOUT ADULT SUPERVISION OR HOURS OF OFFLINE TRAINING! MAY CAUSE EXTREME LOSS OF LADDER POINTS! I CAN NOT BE HELD ACCOUNTABLE FOR ANY DAMAGES RESULTING FROM YOU NOT TAKING THIS WARNING SERIOUSLY!
My experiments and research are inspired by ancient quadrupedal cliff jumping Dragoon training techniques by (and I can only assume its this person):
The magic happens at the bottom side of the gateway. So its the bottom bases of a few maps that allow this. If you plug all the holes and the gateways is close enough to the cliff your fatter units will spawn up the cliff!
Ive probably lost most Terrans at this point.. But for those of you (and I know you are out there) who are still reading and do not like to lift your buildings or want to be extremely sneaky... YOU CAN DO IT TOO!
Ive said too much already. LET THE JUMPS BEGIN!
Lol make a depot, a second factory, and a barracks just so you can achieve the same thing you would with floating a single factory :D Seems legit
On June 15 2019 19:28 fazek42 wrote: Lol make a depot, a second factory, and a barracks just so you can achieve the same thing you would with floating a single factory :D Seems legit
a ling or any unit can block that from landing, this one in OP you have to make a whole row of buildings along the cliff side to block this, much more effective XD
The point IS exactly that... Terrans dont need to do fancy things because their units AND buildings are already made to do those things better...
For the record you CAN block the spawn point if you know where it is as well... On some maps its a few spawn locations. The smartest counter is to kill one of the blocking probes downstairs. That way the goon spawns down, sometimes trapped or the unit is lost because all spawn points are blocked...
I love how players generally practice build orders, or grind ladder games, or play 3v3 BGH or whatever casual game modes, while other people only make maps or only make tools for the game, and then you have a small tiny handful of people like you who just do absurd stuff with their time in the game haha. This is dope. Never change.
@art_of_turtle WELL... Hopefully some1 will try against your Zerg and you will kill them... If I find anything that can help a Zerg out I will share it immediately you can be sure of that... (Floating drone comes to mind, so practice that)
On June 18 2019 06:58 Freakling wrote: Maybe some one should just make a map with multiple spots where you can do this very easily ;D
There was a guy on East back in the day, SirViolator, that only played on this one map that he kept adding cheesy stuff to. Like, there were perfect locations for making and floating Barracks/Factories, Ghost- and Tank-sized islands and platforms that could range into your base. The map had no discernible pattern/rhythm/symmetry. It was just a sadistic man's torture house.
Playing him dozens of times over the course of years, you would be exposed to all the potentially abusive combinations of Terran play and map features, and they changed gradually. Like, there might have been a Tank platform he used against you in January, and by February it's gone or been replaced with some other crap.
Just an island map with your main minerals against a cliff and multiple jump spots to said cliff would be fun. Zerg would be screwed, but TvP could actually be manageable.
The weird thing is that sometimes units can spawn at unlikely distances from the production building and sometimes there's just a "building exit blocked" message even though there is a valid spawn space pretty close by…
EDIT: Under further investigation it turns out that you cannot spawn units into non-connected (in other words: island to each other) regions this way. Luckily there are workarounds around such puny limitations >:D
On June 19 2019 09:04 Freakling wrote: The weird thing is that sometimes units can spawn at unlikely distances from the production building and sometimes there's just a "building exit blocked" message even though there is a valid spawn space pretty close by…
EDIT: Under further investigation it turns out that you cannot spawn units into non-connected (in other words: island to each other) regions this way. Luckily there are workarounds around such puny limitations >:D
Starcraft is full of weird things. Part of the reason I love it...
On June 15 2019 22:54 ProllTarodies wrote: Eye roll... Terrans...
The point IS exactly that... Terrans dont need to do fancy things because their units AND buildings are already made to do those things better...
For the record you CAN block the spawn point if you know where it is as well... On some maps its a few spawn locations. The smartest counter is to kill one of the blocking probes downstairs. That way the goon spawns down, sometimes trapped or the unit is lost because all spawn points are blocked...
i think they changed that in RM. I know some examples from my earliest BW days when i just build marines around my rax till i got the error with the spawn points. But doing the same stuff now just spawns the marine in second line. Might have been patched in 2001 or 2. It has been awhile since i tried the "trick" before RM came out.
On June 15 2019 22:54 ProllTarodies wrote: Eye roll... Terrans...
The point IS exactly that... Terrans dont need to do fancy things because their units AND buildings are already made to do those things better...
For the record you CAN block the spawn point if you know where it is as well... On some maps its a few spawn locations. The smartest counter is to kill one of the blocking probes downstairs. That way the goon spawns down, sometimes trapped or the unit is lost because all spawn points are blocked...
i think they changed that in RM. I know some examples from my earliest BW days when i just build marines around my rax till i got the error with the spawn points. But doing the same stuff now just spawns the marine in second line. Might have been patched in 2001 or 2. It has been awhile since i tried the "trick" before RM came out.
You can still lose a unit if Building exit is blocked.
And this still happens in SCR. I give you the fat blimp example below...
SCR looks shiny but it doesnt change core things in BW (which is good).
Happens to ground units with terrible building placement:
And to loop it back to my thread in this case as well:
Of course none of this is of any concern in normal play...
On June 15 2019 22:54 ProllTarodies wrote: Eye roll... Terrans...
The point IS exactly that... Terrans dont need to do fancy things because their units AND buildings are already made to do those things better...
For the record you CAN block the spawn point if you know where it is as well... On some maps its a few spawn locations. The smartest counter is to kill one of the blocking probes downstairs. That way the goon spawns down, sometimes trapped or the unit is lost because all spawn points are blocked...
i think they changed that in RM. I know some examples from my earliest BW days when i just build marines around my rax till i got the error with the spawn points. But doing the same stuff now just spawns the marine in second line. Might have been patched in 2001 or 2. It has been awhile since i tried the "trick" before RM came out.
You can still lose a unit if Building exit is blocked.
And this still happens in SCR. I give you the fat blimp example below...
SCR looks shiny but it doesnt change core things in BW (which is good).
Happens to ground units with terrible building placement:
And to loop it back to my thread in this case as well:
Of course none of this is of any concern in normal play...
When the building exit is blocked you do at least get the money for the unit back.
Time for Necromancy. Saw my thread and decided to test it on newer ladder maps. It's time again for big brain Protosses to go ape shit! ^_._^ (The stuck goon on Largo is experimental. Ideally there would be a probe there.
Elaborate my retraction? Irrelevant information posted
I was imagining you thinking at some point the post is irrelevant and now u have converted to the believer side... I gotta assure everyone this has been tested vs real E and D ranks! While you may say every strategy can work at that level I say that is correct this strategy is fun and makes games weird kek
Elaborate my retraction? Irrelevant information posted
I was imagining you thinking at some point the post is irrelevant and now u have converted to the believer side... I gotta assure everyone this has been tested vs real E and D ranks! While you may say every strategy can work at that level I say that is correct this strategy is fun and makes games weird kek
No, was doing my own tests and was gonna make an addition but my findings werent interesting enough.
I did find out this only works on cliffs that can be accessed from the current layer. IE it doesnt work on cliffs at Lost Temple as there is no ramp.
Also that its doable facing north with a slight modification necessary.
Elaborate my retraction? Irrelevant information posted
I was imagining you thinking at some point the post is irrelevant and now u have converted to the believer side... I gotta assure everyone this has been tested vs real E and D ranks! While you may say every strategy can work at that level I say that is correct this strategy is fun and makes games weird kek
No, was doing my own tests and was gonna make an addition but my findings werent interesting enough.
I did find out this only works on cliffs that can be accessed from the current layer. IE it doesnt work on cliffs at Lost Temple as there is no ramp.
Also that its doable facing north with a slight modification necessary.
I am interested in any replays that utilize it vs real players too ; D (I think Freakling mentioned something about tiles and layers earlier in the thread)
It does work on Lost Temple.. The original image of the programer is on LT. And I did a quick test below to show it on another base too. Or you mean the cliffs behind the natural?
Yeah I just tested cliffs behind naturals too and can't spawn up there. Not that you would ever want to. That would trap your units there. Unless the opponent is hiding there with antiair and u don't want to make a shuttle or arbiter so you must spawn up... Ur fucked.
This is super interesting. What kind of consistency rates are we talking about if you execute the sim city like intended? Considering the amount of infra you need to essentially sac to get to high-ground it looks kinda impractical but who doesn't like the most experimental of cheeses
On December 27 2022 02:34 Akio wrote: This is super interesting. What kind of consistency rates are we talking about if you execute the sim city like intended? Considering the amount of infra you need to essentially sac to get to high-ground it looks kinda impractical but who doesn't like the most experimental of cheeses
100% all you need to make sure is other potential spawn points are blocked. Of course this is easily countered if the opponent knows what they are doing or scouts it before u can start spawning. The images I've shown are by no means optimal. They are just experimental as you said. So on some maps you can get away with far less structures or probes to plug potential spawns. Worked in a pro game years ago (as shown in the original text) so it can work for you! I am not responsible for any damages tho... ^_._^
On December 27 2022 02:34 Akio wrote: This is super interesting. What kind of consistency rates are we talking about if you execute the sim city like intended? Considering the amount of infra you need to essentially sac to get to high-ground it looks kinda impractical but who doesn't like the most experimental of cheeses
100% all you need to make sure is other potential spawn points are blocked. Of course this is easily countered if the opponent knows what they are doing or scouts it before u can start spawning. The images I've shown are by no means optimal. They are just experimental as you said. So on some maps you can get away with far less structures or probes to plug potential spawns. Worked in a pro game years ago (as shown in the original text) so it can work for you! I am not responsible for any damages tho... ^_._^
No offense to Zelniq but that is not a pro game lol. This has never been done in a pro game. Even the page on Pimpest Plays elaborates on this: Pimpest Plays/2007
On December 27 2022 02:34 Akio wrote: This is super interesting. What kind of consistency rates are we talking about if you execute the sim city like intended? Considering the amount of infra you need to essentially sac to get to high-ground it looks kinda impractical but who doesn't like the most experimental of cheeses
100% all you need to make sure is other potential spawn points are blocked. Of course this is easily countered if the opponent knows what they are doing or scouts it before u can start spawning. The images I've shown are by no means optimal. They are just experimental as you said. So on some maps you can get away with far less structures or probes to plug potential spawns. Worked in a pro game years ago (as shown in the original text) so it can work for you! I am not responsible for any damages tho... ^_._^
I would guess it's the same person Zelniq ??? Sure I'll give you that he may not have been a pro but if I were you I would have gone after the other person. I really can't find any info about them.
I would bet pro pros have tried this strategy in their private games but since it's easy to counter no one has used it in an actual high stakes game (that we know of). To claim it's never been done in a pro game (which using a strict definition I would consider any game with 2 players who are or have been pros in the past) is a much crazier statement.
The point I was making is the proof of concept is there. So if you truly want to be a dirty Protoss go for it. I am no longer impressed by regular proxy gates and robos... ^_._^
On December 30 2022 01:41 IvaNioX_twitch wrote: is allowed to island-jump with scv? (for tournaments)
is technique or bug?
What do you mean island-jump with SCV? That's flying SCV (not allowed) and totally different than what I'm showcasing here (which is just a spawn location on certain maps).
Canceling SCV on the other side isnt flying SCV. Flying SCV is SCV moving over cliffs by intention.
While an SCV builds a structure you have no control where it ends when its completed, you do have control with cancel but this is the same as Vulture mine jumps where you intentionally want to jump over a pylon wall.
This could be done with worker stacking too where you add a worker among army and stack with mineral then unstack jumping on army causing army to move stacked wherever you wanna go. You could in theory walk like this over the whole map with a big enough army that doesnt unstack. Edit: I can showcase this when i get a PC its pretty hilarious and especially with mass tanks as you can siege all tanks ontop of each other making a super cannon :D
On December 31 2022 23:55 MeSaber wrote: Canceling SCV on the other side isnt flying SCV. Flying SCV is SCV moving over cliffs by intention.
While an SCV builds a structure you have no control where it ends when its completed, you do have control with cancel but this is the same as Vulture mine jumps where you intentionally want to jump over a pylon wall.
This could be done with worker stacking too where you add a worker among army and stack with mineral then unstack jumping on army causing army to move stacked wherever you wanna go. You could in theory walk like this over the whole map with a big enough army that doesnt unstack. Edit: I can showcase this when i get a PC its pretty hilarious and especially with mass tanks as you can siege all tanks ontop of each other making a super cannon :D
On December 31 2022 23:55 MeSaber wrote: Canceling SCV on the other side isnt flying SCV. Flying SCV is SCV moving over cliffs by intention.
While an SCV builds a structure you have no control where it ends when its completed, you do have control with cancel but this is the same as Vulture mine jumps where you intentionally want to jump over a pylon wall.
This could be done with worker stacking too where you add a worker among army and stack with mineral then unstack jumping on army causing army to move stacked wherever you wanna go. You could in theory walk like this over the whole map with a big enough army that doesnt unstack. Edit: I can showcase this when i get a PC its pretty hilarious and especially with mass tanks as you can siege all tanks ontop of each other making a super cannon :D
No I was referring to SCV flying to complete a building over any terrain. But you should showcase tank stacking none the less.
That bug still works but can only be done with protoss as you need recall. You start a building from A to B and recall the SCV to impassable terrain, then it will start completing the building without being present. There might be a requirement that the building has to exist before it works, ive only done it on Trick maps.
Sure will show both this bug and stacking. Will also try the turret jump over cliff.
On December 31 2022 23:55 MeSaber wrote: Canceling SCV on the other side isnt flying SCV. Flying SCV is SCV moving over cliffs by intention.
While an SCV builds a structure you have no control where it ends when its completed, you do have control with cancel but this is the same as Vulture mine jumps where you intentionally want to jump over a pylon wall.
This could be done with worker stacking too where you add a worker among army and stack with mineral then unstack jumping on army causing army to move stacked wherever you wanna go. You could in theory walk like this over the whole map with a big enough army that doesnt unstack. Edit: I can showcase this when i get a PC its pretty hilarious and especially with mass tanks as you can siege all tanks ontop of each other making a super cannon :D
No I was referring to SCV flying to complete a building over any terrain. But you should showcase tank stacking none the less.
That bug still works but can only be done with protoss as you need recall. You start a building from A to B and recall the SCV to impassable terrain, then it will start completing the building without being present. There might be a requirement that the building has to exist before it works, ive only done it on Trick maps.
Sure will show both this bug and stacking. Will also try the turret jump over cliff.
Looks like cliff jumping has been fixed. Its when you build a structure with SCV and it goes way off from center and end up on a cliff where you cancel and it stays. It seems to never go even close to cliffs now.
Looks like cliff jumping has been fixed. Its when you build a structure with SCV and it goes way off from center and end up on a cliff where you cancel and it stays. It seems to never go even close to cliffs now.
Freakling may correct me but I would assume it may have to do with how a map is made rather than a patch.. I could be wrong.
Anti Tesagi dream - super stacked tanks kek. Did some explode during the stacking or did you target murder them?
I like that u spawned as P and MCed T instead of spawning as T haha
I thought I showcased the SCV flying to build one in my Remastered Glitches video but it turns out I didn't kek... I've known about it for a long time. Lockdown works too instead of recall which is much more useful.
Yes you cannot siege on buildings or minerals/gas then it explodes. Its an anti-measure against stacking tanks under buildings but its not been fully fixed, you can still stack tanks on buildings but the sieging (sieging sound) has to be AFTER building has landed.
How you do that? You put tank in the opposite sieging direction so when you click siege just before building has landed it has a small window where tank turns around to siege.
On January 01 2023 23:26 MeSaber wrote: Yes you cannot siege on buildings or minerals/gas then it explodes. Its an anti-measure against stacking tanks under buildings but its not been fully fixed, you can still stack tanks on buildings but the sieging (sieging sound) has to be AFTER building has landed.
How you do that? You put tank in the opposite sieging direction so when you click siege just before building has landed it has a small window where tank turns around to siege.
Necromancy! Happy to report this is still possible on some modern maps. I now realize I should have put 1 in a million strategy in the title instead lel... Here are some not optimized examples, if you needed a reason to hate em more ; D:
Just quick tests as usual. There are likely much more optimal combos of buildings and probes to block bottom exists so a goon can spawn up the cliff and surprise a noob or overconfident opponent.
EPT![[image loading]](https://i.imgur.com/YULwdYr.jpg)
Zelniq![[image loading]](https://i.imgur.com/AdFkZo0.jpg)
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