Terran vs Dark Swarm Defilers - Page 2

minus_human

4784 Posts

June 11 2007 22:46 GMT

#21

Why are you asking such a question? It seems to me you already know the answer.
And no, definitely there isn't any easier method of dealing with defilers than you already know, it's not some well guarded secret or anything

Irradiate, but more importantly, scouting ahead of you army with Sci Vessels/Scan (when you have SV's you can afford to waste some scans). Always remember to run away from it, two.

HiFi

United States518 Posts

June 13 2007 15:12 GMT

#22

On June 12 2007 06:12 IIICodeIIIIIII wrote:
mother tested, boxer approved.

ha ha ha...

evanthebouncy!

United States12796 Posts

June 13 2007 15:43 GMT

#23

On June 11 2007 17:16 Slayer91 wrote:
But seriously: The key is too keep active, if you are boxed in at your nat he will swarm push you into the ground. Keep sending those units out. If he swarms, pull back slightly. Do this while taking out his expands, he will eventually crumble without those. Just tank/mnm/a few vessels/vults for mines will be fine if you can't micro.

Dropships are a bitch to counter, (If you have control of the center you can send dropships through there, maybe with a dmatrix) if he's going around with swarm hopefully you can beat his army head to head, so you can drop one place and stop him from defending the exp with your main army. (keep pressuring his main force, so he can't run around the map.)

I like alot what he said here, I think there's no absolute counter to swarms but if you can economically crumple/overpower him, you can take the swarm threat away indirectly. while staying alive.

HiddenTalent

United States246 Posts

June 13 2007 20:00 GMT

#24

How do u guys micro your veseels? When I move them around, they start stacking and then its hard to find which vessel that has enough energy.

Pads

England3228 Posts

June 13 2007 20:17 GMT

#25

use your mouse and spread them out. you just need slightly quick fingers.

KwarK

United States42270 Posts

June 13 2007 20:32 GMT

#26

On June 12 2007 06:17 IIICodeIIIIIII wrote:

Show nested quote +

ya, dark archon... and that's trained at the uh.. barracks right? damn, why didn't i think of that. if the bastard is going defiler, i'll just train a dark archon at my barrack. the button right next to the "train marine" and "train firebat" sheesh, i can just press "train dark archon". voila!

to op: but just MAKE SURE, before you train ur dark archon, you have all the minerals and gas you need, cause otherwise, your barracks blows up and your mom will all your marines will go hakuna matata and your mom will have sex with andy griffin.

also, you can merge two science vessels into a dark vessel which does all dark archon spells for free. try it. that's what i usually do.

It was clear to me that the dark archon comment meant "I'm a P so take my advice with a pinch of salt". Your post was far more useless than his. He said I'd normally use a darchon but given that you're T aggressive irradiating is the way forward. You just bitched.

Anyway, on topic. Mech seems to work quite well, despite all the skepticism. Tank splash does a lot of damage to units pinned down under swarm and mines can hold them back or if they are careless, take a lot of ling and lurk kills. Of course you still need a core of mnm vessel but mixing in a few mines and a lot of tank works nicely. Any long oov tvz should display my point.

Jayson X

Switzerland2431 Posts

June 13 2007 21:17 GMT

#27

Before:
Prescan - irradiate with vessel cloning - keep spreading until the spaces are too big to swarm again
After:
If you can't see shit...irradiate the one thing that moves around, if nothing moves irradiate everything that highlights

ppshchik

United States862 Posts

January 31 2013 08:02 GMT

#28

Sorry for necroing this thread but I have problems with swarms lately as well.

http://repdepot.net/replay.php?id=52708

Can someone please point out the mistakes I made vs swarm, or the game in general?

Thanks!

quirinus

Croatia2489 Posts

January 31 2013 16:03 GMT

#29

Well, I'll first try to ignore any mechanical errors, like not building stuff and getting supply stuck, because there's a lot of that. xD

Second, once you lose your first scv, you HAVE to send another one, especially if you don't have a bunker, sending it a little bit before you lose the first one is also good. Otherwise you risk getting mass linged, zergs can just make like 12+ lings when the scv dies with speed finishing soon and attack you. Keep the marines in the natural closer to the ramp and maybe put 1-2 in the mineral line as well, to protect from lings sniping scvs. That way if you somehow miss zerg making lings, you can pull your marines up on the ramp and mineral drill your scvs to block the ramp when he attacks.

I think you should use both first scans to scan his base, sometimes zerg make fake and hidden buildings. When you see he's going mutas, make a bunker on the expo as well, when adding turrets, otherwise he can snipe marines defending it easily, and lings can run in as well.

Also, you didn't even try pushing out to make him make sunkens. You also didn't scout for expos with 1-2 scvs. You also didn't place turrets next to your rax, that's almost more important than turrets protecting the main mineral line. You want like 4 turrets at your exp (that one turret you placed left of the gas is too far away) and probably 2 at main mineral line and 2 at rax. Keep like 3-4 marines in the natural mineral line (not behind minerals, but right where the scvs mine, in the cover of the turrets) to prevent zerg from sniping scvs. Keep a small mm group in the main to prevent mutas from killing the turrets. Turrets are just a cover for marines, as they have a higher range and are a bit harder to kill. Just stay near the turrets, don't go chasing mutas away from them.

Oh god now you're going behind minerals. NEVER do that, you see how easy it is to snipe marines there. Just put a few in the mineral line and with the cover of turrets, it should be enough to fend away the mutas. Don't forget to hold position them.

You need to scan more to see when he goes lurkers/hive. You MUST make 2 bunkers when you see he's switching to lurkers. Sometimes even 3 if you're behind. It's imperative you macro while pushing out, otherwise you don't have any army to defend backstabs or if your main army gets wiped out too easily, you won't have any map control.

Don't push out without a vessel unless you're 100% sure he has no lurkers out.
When you push out, always scan the other side, so you can see if he's doing a backstab; or send an scv there.

Why are you staying home? Vs zerg you NEED to push him away from your base and threaten to attack his expo or main. Otherwise he contains you and just walks defilers to your base and gg. In the case of you staying home, he doesn't even need to contain you, he can just walk them there straight up and own you. It's IMPORTANT to push out when you see hive and get map control and cut off his way to your base. You want to push as close as you can to his base so he has to swarm leap trough the whole map, thus slowing him down enough for you to deny more expos or get mines/tanks and an expo. Just keep scanning and irradiating defilers if you have him pinned home, while trying to drop his expo.

WTF you're still home after seeing him making guardians, just push out, he doesn't have much gas units if he's making guardians, you have to try to irradiate everything and push him back (also deny expos and put pressure). Minesssss you need them.

Watching on, rofl wtf, like I said, you just let him walk straight up to you and own you with swarm. I know it's hard to control your army and you're scared of those imba lurkers, but you must go out on the map and not let this happen, this is much worse than losing a handful of marines to some lurkers because you didn't pay attention when you pushed out - this way you lost the potential position on the map to deny his attack and then you lost the army and the game.to some rather easy swarms. Also not to mention your macro fell apart I know I said I won't comment on it, but this is important: - you NEED vessels to deal with defilers, and you NEED mines too (well, if you have a good macro and map presence from the start you can get away without them, but I suggest using them as a mech switch is just so powerful (and also a bit less demanding that mm in the late game).

Also, if something like this happens again when he tries to pin you down in your natural, try getting a group of mm out and behind his army so you can cut down reinforcements and wear down his attack with irradiate and tanks, otherwise he's just going to keep reinforcing it and crush you.. Drops, you didn't use them as well, they're not only good for killing stuff, but as a distraction, most people can't handle attacking and macroing while trying to deal with a drop, not to mention he has to use some units while dealing with it. Try dropping and doing something with your army while you try to keep that drop alive, you'll find you have a much easier time just walking up to somewhere or irradiating his stuff. It buys time.

You have 2k 1k, just place down 5 factories and churn out stuff. Try to get another main, if not for anything, just to distract him and make him divide his forces and attention trying to take it down or deny it. Just siege up 1-2 tanks on the high ground and put an mm group on the top of the ramp.

You didn't upgrade after 1-1. :< You want those upgrades if you're staying on mm because they mean a huge deal.

and on that last attack, you didn't irradiate anything, the key thing is to irradiate defilers asap if they're that close to your base, even if it means losing your vessel. Just move the army back a bit, no need to run far and irradiate (first defilers, then the closest lurkers), then move the army again. At the end you died because you didn't irradate his defiler, you could have lived trough that attack (even though it's hard with just 1 tank and a few vessels (bad macro).

All that strategic stuff aside, had you just macroed, you'd crush him. 3k in bank, that's 60 marines ^^ easily enough to crush him or keep him away while you do other stuff that will make you crush him later. In TvZ macro is very important, it's especially hard to macro while moving around, attacking and microing, but you must get in the habit to try to macro while there's not much action. If there's action, micro for a bit (less than you think, DON'T watch the whole fight, that's wasted time), then move the army back a tiny bit so it's safer for a moment and then go macro and then back to the fight. What you'll find is very satisfying, even if your whole attack gets wiped out, you'll have an equal or bigger army waiting home to go crush face. For me it's a really satisfying feeling when I see a big chunk of stuff in my natural after a fight went bad, I just smile. xD Now imagine if the fight doesn't even go bad, you have another army of fucking imbalanced space marines looking to swat some bugs and eat some roasted drone wings. You have to macro so you have something to fall back on if your army gets wiped out, and to protect you from backstabs (although later in the game those shouldn't happen because you should have map control and awareness, as the zerg will be mostly defending his expos) See, if you pressure him, he'll just try to defend, not attack. So, to conclude: attack is the best way to defend and deal with swarm, in this case.

EDIT:
I like how you used search and didn't open a new topic for this, it makes me cringe when people open topics with simple questions that either:
a) can be easily found by searching
b) already have topics that are used for it
c) are one line questions

Thank you.

EDIT2:
Lol wtf, you have 200 apm yet almost 50% of it is selection spam. Try to macro more instead of just doing useless spam. I'm not saying you should stop trying to spam/play faster, as that helps develop apm a lot (and that is very needed in TvZ), but try to direct it more towards multitasking and useful stuff. Try thinking faster instead of just looking on one spot on the map and spamming, try doing it on multiple spots and doing something at each of them. Each time you switch to a different spot try to do at least 1 useful thing and then switch to another one fast. Don't forget to do that even when you get into a battle, do 1 really important thing (set up the start of the fight/positioning), maybe 1-2 less important (micro/move: like irradiate or pull a group of mm away from lurkers a bit) but switch to other stuff immediately (macro, 1 important thing, make units, ignore supplies and upgrades and making workers, you'll do that after the fight) then go back to the fight to finish it or regroup/run away. Do NOT look at the whole fight, you'll often catch yourself just watching the fight doing nothing or microing 2 marines that don't mean jack shit or can't do anything. Gradually you'll get used to not watching the whole duration of the fight and you'll be better at assessing how much of your time is better spent on other things instead of watching the battle. Replays and VODs are for watching and enjoying fights, the actual games aren't.