But it’s also such a Zerg map because Zerg can take 6base just by holding 2 chokes and ramps with high ground and lurkers. That’s very tough for Protoss to break with zealot goon temps or any unit combination. And natural exp is super harassable by muta and guardian or just 3hatch hydra. So z has every option available whereas on heartbreak ridge, just as one example, z can’t defend a third or a fourth to a massive Protoss ball or a speedlot rush.

Highgamer

1407 Posts

October 14 2018 10:18 GMT

If I read such a post - "it's a soandso-race favored map because you can take and hold X bases with just soandso" - I always wonder if this is just theorycrafting or if the person actually thought about how that works in a real game.

How could Zerg ever just "take and hold 6 (!) bases with lurk" if Protoss is not a complete no-show in the game? It's an RTS, something has to be delayed if you expand so much. There would have been a few major clashes before Zerg could ever take so many bases. Somewhere between the 2nd/3rd and 6th base there has to be room for aggression/punishment/counter-expanding.
On FS, additionally, the natural-chokes are not that easy to defend without considerable investments...

That doesn't mean that the game couldn't somehow end up in said situation... after half an hour or so... with Protoss having 5-6 gas-bases, too. I don't think that is a good reason to veto FS...

On topic:
I would consider to just ignore map-balance and to learn to play as many maps as possible over time because you might have to play them at some point in time, in a tournament or boX for example where it would suck if you have zero experience on them.

I always try to leave 3-4 maps that I have experience on and feel comfortable, but to include one or two maps that I don't know too well yet or have problems with and additionally I play all my warm-up-games or build-order-practice-games on that map for a while.

XenOsky

Chile2268 Posts

October 14 2018 11:07 GMT

On October 13 2018 06:29 Jealous wrote:
I veto Blue Storm, HBR, and Roadkill.

^

CB and FS just have to deal with it vs Terran...

ortseam

996 Posts

October 14 2018 16:47 GMT

FS is the best PvZ map right now, and Blue Storm is probably 2nd best. HBR, Aztec on the other hand are very good PvT, very bad PvZ. So worst map for P overall is probably CB.

EndingLife

United States1594 Posts

October 14 2018 18:43 GMT

#10

Hbr, aztec, Into the eddy.

WGT-Baal

France3358 Posts

October 15 2018 01:48 GMT

#11

i veto CB because I cant win a single straight PvT on it (i win with bulldog or random cheeses but that s it), and HBR.
3rd veto it depends I kinda like BS so I ve vetoed Eddy this season

Jealous

10141 Posts

October 15 2018 07:08 GMT

#12

On October 14 2018 09:08 EsX_Raptor wrote:
Artosis and Tasteless during the KSL talked about how "no Protoss knows how to wall in Blue Storm". That could be a hint.

BS walls are actually not that bad once you memorize them. The issue I have with it is cheese and Lurker Contains. In theory it's a good map for Protoss because Zerg doesn't get enough bases and they are harder to hold, but might not apply at my level.

kogeT

Poland2037 Posts

October 15 2018 07:59 GMT

#13

On October 13 2018 02:20 TheBrochette wrote:
Was just wondering what were your bans.

The issue with your question is that most maps that suck for PvZ are great for PvT.

TheBrochette

67 Posts

October 15 2018 09:33 GMT

#14

Well ATM i had Eddy roadkill and Aztec vetoed but decided to unceto everymap to pratice Them à bit. I tend yo favor clean macro map that are Aldo easy to fast Nexus on IT vs Z.

I Also Enjoy 1v1 map cause i dont get late scout ans get surprise n'y a Tricky/cheezy build.

Recently un playing à lot of pvp and pvt

iopq

United States909 Posts

October 15 2018 13:18 GMT

#15

On October 14 2018 18:10 Yanokabo wrote:

Show nested quote +

But it’s also such a Zerg map because Zerg can take 6base just by holding 2 chokes and ramps with high ground and lurkers.

you can only hold 4 bases like this, the side bases have their own entrances

you do have to first actually set up in the side bases to hold them, this is easier for Protoss than Zerg because you ideally need things like spores for a strong lurker defense

on the other hand on CB the Zerg can just make infinity units because going hydra/muta for a long time is viable and actually very good and much more mobile than templars

JoinTheRain

Bulgaria408 Posts

October 15 2018 19:27 GMT

#16

Don't ban maps. Try to get good and have fun on any map. That for me was a part of the challenge of BW when I was active for 4-5 hours a day. This map is bad for protoss, like Lost Temple was. Yet the most amazing games I've played on LT.