EPTCant decide picking a race
| Forum Index > Brood War Strategy |
|
Mojzii1
30 Posts
| ||
|
ProMeTheus112
France2027 Posts
can't see how P in bw has anything to do with T in sc2 but I think if you have checked playstyles but still can't decide, then whichever you prefer character wise (like music sound art), all three races are awesome in bw | ||
|
Mojzii1
30 Posts
| ||
|
RoomOfMush
1296 Posts
P and Z are much more lenient. They have spells that can deal devastating damage (recall, dark swarm, etc) and allow you to come back from incredible positions. If T falls behind it takes a little longer to get back into the game with tanks, mines and science vessels. | ||
|
tokinho
United States792 Posts
Therefore the units are much closer in brood war and less dependent on a racial advantage. You could say overall the races are closer to each other. zerg is therefore closer to playing, protoss, and playing terran. I play random in sc2 and played protoss in brood war mostly. In brood war terran and protoss macro becomes a lot of clicking up and down buildings. The mirrors play out quite differently. There is ZvZ scourge muta fights, PvP dragoon reaver battles, and TvT tank marine medic fights. I personally chose protoss because i liked the mirror the most. As was mentioned above terran is about cost efficiency as it is in starcraft 2. Protoss is about controlling game information. zerg is about map presence. I feel that all are fun and that should play them all for a while just like playing all of them for a while in starcraft 2 and look for how the micro plays out. I don't think you understand the game enough to really pick yet. Starcraft 2 was very boring in hots and a little less in wol and those two games were much less like brood war than LOTV is. I actually played brood war quite a bit during wol and came over later during hots. I didn't like hots waiting for things to happen all the time. In brood war the first fights were generally faster and less likely to be game ending. Its more that way now in LOTV than it was in brood war and i actually feel like LOTV plays much more like brood war. Scouting was much more done with the inital fighting units and a worker in brood war) Back to your background, until you test and learn this with all 3 races i don't think its really that useful to give up on the other two. In starcraft2 , the efforts spent at home working with the macro clicking through building and use the time spent with the macro at home to give more explicit racial advantages. (I.e. creep spread, the usage of addons, and chrono boost) Until you get used to these i wouldn't worry much about this either. Since the races play out much more similarly, and the macro is much more about clicking through buildings and putting workers on minerals. I feel that it should mostly be about what type of caster and special units you like the most. I really liked arbiters and shuttles with reaver micro to control game information over using irradiate/tanks/medics for cost efficiency, crackling hydra ultra with defiler plaguu and dark swarm. Its just not as severe racial advantages in brood war so i wouldn't worry about it so much. | ||
|
Trozz
Canada3454 Posts
Pick whatever looks funnest. Lurker drops won me. | ||
|
Highgamer
1407 Posts
On April 08 2016 22:11 Mojzii1 wrote: What im looking for is late game oriented race which is pretty cost effective (split map situation n stuff) . I'm currently on D+ / C- on iccup with terran and i fell like protoss is dominating late game pretty hard. A Late game orientation is not race dependent in BW, good lategame depends almost exclusively on your personal skill as a player. You can play every race with the mindset that you want to try to set yourself up well for the lategame and make that phase of the game your strong point (except for ZvZ and PvP I think where a majority of short games are inevitable afaik, but maybe even there). If your opponent doesn't do something crazy (and over time: even then) you should get there eventually if you try hard enough and succeed with any race if you practice enough. Cost efficiency can be matchup-dependent in part. Protoss for example is generally cost-inefficient in PvT, but can be very cost-efficient in PvZ. Zerg can be (has to be) super cost-efficient in ZvT in certain phases, but not in the lategame. Terran is not necessarily cost-efficient in the midgame of TvZ, but can be super cost-efficient in the lategame of that MU. In split-map-scenarios Terran surely is the most cost-efficient, but that can be rendered useless in TvP because of recalls (and other stuff). TvP lategame is just sick hard on your level if your first big push doesn't do enough damage (imo), but it's not like Terran is bad in the lategame of that MU in general. Generally I would not worry too much about the reputation of the races in those regards but rather go with the race you have sympathy for for whatever reason, or the one that your player-idol uses. | ||
|
MuNi
United States72 Posts
I played bw for a couple years until Sc2 came out and then I played sc2 until LOTV came out. I just came back to bw this season of iccup and am currently b- (terrible stats) and I play protoss both in bw and sc2. I totally understand what you're saying about protoss in bw being like terran in sc2. In the bw the roles are opposite. So, the beginning of pvt protoss is stronger and has better map control / opportunity for aggressive play atyles. Any race in bw will take to a macro game. That's just skill based not race based. I can only tell you my personal experience which is that I've always played protoss because it is the easiest. I'm just not that great of a keyboard and mouse controller to play terran or zerg at the level that I would like to play at. If something like that is also a factor for you then check out protons for a while. If you love / have more fun with t or z then play your heart out and see where you get. Expect to stay at lower levels for longer with terran especially. | ||
|
Piste
6177 Posts
| ||
|
Jealous
10152 Posts
EDIT: At the lower levels, I think the consensus agrees with your experience that T has more difficulty in TvP than the P, P has more difficulty in PvZ than the Z, and Z has more difficulty than the T in TvZ. You could try to switch to ZvP while still playing T, for example. Some people switch to P for PvT while still playing TvP, TvZ. Just as before, it is all up to your preference for the gameplay. | ||
|
Shinokuki
United States859 Posts
| ||
|
Jealous
10152 Posts
On April 09 2016 05:14 Shinokuki wrote: Pick terran if you're willing to go far. Zerg is dying out in fish server right now. No one plays zerg. Its just stupid to play zerg on fish server if you ask me. You have to be super ELITE to play zerg in fish because most maps are fs where even zvp is balanced and zvt is imba as hell. Pick protoss for easy ride to D on fish. D protoss= F/E zerg skill OP, can you tell this guy is a Zerg player? Don't listen to biased whining. Go with what your heart tells you to do. | ||
|
Shinokuki
United States859 Posts
On April 09 2016 05:20 Jealous wrote: OP, can you tell this guy is a Zerg player? Don't listen to biased whining. Go with what your heart tells you to do. I'm just warning the guy here. He's free to play zerg but be prepared to get dissapointed fast if he starts playing on fish ladder where 50% is toss and only the elites survive to D. | ||
|
Mojzii1
30 Posts
| ||
|
Trozz
Canada3454 Posts
Wall knowledge is critical. Each map's different. | ||
|
MuNi
United States72 Posts
| ||
|
[[Starlight]]
United States1578 Posts
On April 08 2016 22:11 Mojzii1 wrote: can't decide on picking a race + Show Spoiler + To be a really great player, I'd probably go with Korean. | ||
|
Jealous
10152 Posts
On April 09 2016 07:09 Mojzii1 wrote: Thanks for constructive answers, i think i will roll with Terran :D I just love challenges Have fun ^^ I've recently began to enjoy playing Terran more recently (I'd say I offrace the majority of the time now). There's really no comparable feeling in this game to having 5 control groups of Mech and fat line of Siege Tanks, or covering an entire map with Mines and using them as a tracking device on the Protoss army combined with the maphax Comsat xD However, I've finally appreciated the patience that is required to play Terran, finally. Also, understanding the logic behind timings. That's really important for Terrans. A strong timing push is so brutal @_@; I think it's something like 2-1 180? So dirty. | ||
|
coolprogrammingstuff
906 Posts
I'd have to say terran sounds like you want, even if you take that into account. Sounds like you would really like TvP, in particular, if you want to split the map and just dominate lategame armies that find hard it hard to attack into. When you're D+/C- it's hard with carriers/unit control, but terran is pretty hard at that level. If you look at it objectively at a top-level, this starts to become the case a bit more, however! Also getting back into the game a bit more if you're down for a couple  | ||
|
Ty2
United States1434 Posts
| ||
|
chrisolo
Germany2606 Posts
 | ||
|
pebble444
Italy2497 Posts
Lategame cost effective with the equal amount of bases and minerals/gas is: T>P P>Z not sure about T and Z. What this means is that for the same ongoing economy your economy to army will be more cost effective. Before making a choice, if i where in your position i would consider the following: - Drops, flanks, recalls, doomdrops. Z and P - Defense, gaining positions, striking T and P - micro, macro, T and Z People are saying play the race you like the most cause its the one you will have the most fun with, and therefore play the most time with. Protoss, zerg and terran each act in their own individual manner and aside from general things that are involved in playing broodwar, have very little in common. Your choice should be oriented by trying out the different units individually and perfect-matched (examples dragoons-zelots, dragoon-observer, defiler-cracklings, tanks-vultures) Trying out the different sim-cities, base layouts, blocks, building measures) Mining, building defences, harassing and drops on the adversary mineral lines. There are other things i left out, my point being: You have to try for yourself all the different everything of a species to be in the position to make a choice. No one will be able to make it for you, but you can get a partner to try out micro maps and the such. Unless you want to make a choice that is not truly yours and maybe in months you will not be happy with it and have to start all over again. You can also define what skills you have in real life and compare them to what skills the different races offer: Human, evolved, animal. Or Instinct, higher knowledge, or a balance beetwen the 2. Which of these is strongest in you, Which of these you enjoy living the most. | ||
|
chouithegewy
United States25 Posts
| ||
|
Escaton
Poland24 Posts
| ||
|
The Intrepid
Canada205 Posts
Cant decide picking a race What do you mean? Choose protoss!  | ||
|
kogeT
Poland2037 Posts
Focus on efficient macro - Plan your buildings placement / simcity for early and mid game (not so important for late game). Correct placement of depots / production buildings / defensive structures can change your game feel from difficult and exhausting to nice and smooth. - Think about macro all the time.. Terran is the most difficult race to macro as units are done very quickly (both bio and vultures spawn instantly vs protoss/zerg units) and require consts supply adding. Terrans army have to be produced non stop as it's not easily replaceable when it comes to critical units and it also dies relativly quickly when mismanaged - Avoid chaos at any cost. There is nothing more disturbing for a terran player than chaos caused by harassment / single units in your base / managing attacks while still not ready with your setup . Sometimes smallest harassment can throw you of out balance completely, hence it's very important to have a tight defense and not get into tense micro situations before you know that your macro / build order is in place. In practice try not to go into attacks requiring much attention when you know that you still have to macro (add production buildings, establish additional expansion etc.) In 99% of situations it's better to wait after you have your setup ready before attacking with terran. (probably not so true for TvZ, but TvZ in general is very APM heavy). If you really want to attack try to do it in moments when you know you don't have so much to do in your base (for example you start moving when you know you'll only be adding single structures to continue with your BO) - Last bot not least, get your build order in place. It's important for all races but again terran seems to suffer mostly from poorly executed build order. If your timings for upgrades / production / expansions / tech are too delayed you'll find no answers to high tech units that Protoss (arbiters/cariers) and zerg (aggresive swarm in your natural/mass expand with few lurkers + swarm defense/guardians) has. Try to execute your build orders through early game very precisely and have at least good understanding of what you should do in mid game, otherwise you'll find yourself in situations with no way out. | ||
|
Chef
10810 Posts
Back in the day when it was Zerg who had to face an onslaught of one-base Terran timings, it might have played out the opposite way. I think someone coming from SC2 should be very comfortable with the idea of the importance of optimal build orders though, as I have often seen that game as one which is excessively focused on that aspect. In BW it's good enough if you know your builds up to the point of the popular timing attacks, and you know your build up to your own main timing attacks. After that you can wing it, although generally knowing your build order one timing further ends up translating to 1 rank higher on iCCup. | ||
|
Shinokuki
United States859 Posts
On April 14 2016 06:11 Chef wrote: Terran might be the race that having not played in awhile, being hazy on the build orders hurts you the most. The modern Terran faces some very tough timing attacks that are the trend from Zerg and Protoss, and has to time adding defences largely in the dark, which optimized build orders really take the uncertainty and work out of. Back in the day when it was Zerg who had to face an onslaught of one-base Terran timings, it might have played out the opposite way. I think someone coming from SC2 should be very comfortable with the idea of the importance of optimal build orders though, as I have often seen that game as one which is excessively focused on that aspect. In BW it's good enough if you know your builds up to the point of the popular timing attacks, and you know your build up to your own main timing attacks. After that you can wing it, although generally knowing your build order one timing further ends up translating to 1 rank higher on iCCup. can you tell me what zerg timings there are vs terran? On fs, its usually terran going with 3 tank push timing, fast MnM 2 Barrack timing, 3 valk MnM timing, and others. The only timing i can come up for zerg is 2 hat muta but its destroyed by good terrans on fish. | ||
|
ninazerg
United States7291 Posts
| ||
|
ProMeTheus112
France2027 Posts
On April 14 2016 12:29 ninazerg wrote: I don't think you get to choose your race. It's more of something you're born into, but it doesn't define who you are as a human being.   | ||
|
Jealous
10152 Posts
On April 14 2016 08:52 Shinokuki wrote: can you tell me what zerg timings there are vs terran? On fs, its usually terran going with 3 tank push timing, fast MnM 2 Barrack timing, 3 valk MnM timing, and others. The only timing i can come up for zerg is 2 hat muta but its destroyed by good terrans on fish. 3 Hatch Muta into getting your 3rd expo with Lurkers morphing on ramp for defense, then you have to have consume + Defiler ready to stop the 3 Tank push timing. At least that's my understanding of "timing" from the standard Zerg perspective. I'm guessing Chef was referring to the fact that if you don't start Turrets at the right time vs. 3 Hatch Muta (or 2 Hatch Muta, as you said), then you're fucked. If you don't do your 3 Tank push before Zerg has consume and Defiler, you're also fucked, because you NEED to push in order to retain map control? From my outsider perspective on TvZ, at least. | ||
|
Shinokuki
United States859 Posts
On April 15 2016 06:22 Jealous wrote: 3 Hatch Muta into getting your 3rd expo with Lurkers morphing on ramp for defense, then you have to have consume + Defiler ready to stop the 3 Tank push timing. At least that's my understanding of "timing" from the standard Zerg perspective. I'm guessing Chef was referring to the fact that if you don't start Turrets at the right time vs. 3 Hatch Muta (or 2 Hatch Muta, as you said), then you're fucked. If you don't do your 3 Tank push before Zerg has consume and Defiler, you're also fucked, because you NEED to push in order to retain map control? From my outsider perspective on TvZ, at least. That's not really timing though. Most terrans on fish get it down so well on fs since rush distance is so short. 3 tank push is easy thing to do as well as turrets. They face it so much that turrets are already there before mutas arrive. There's really no timings for zergs. Zergs defend and if they defend well enough to 4 bases they are good. | ||
|
Jealous
10152 Posts
On April 15 2016 14:33 Shinokuki wrote: That's not really timing though. Most terrans on fish get it down so well on fs since rush distance is so short. 3 tank push is easy thing to do as well as turrets. They face it so much that turrets are already there before mutas arrive. There's really no timings for zergs. Zergs defend and if they defend well enough to 4 bases they are good. I think it is, though? What's the timing for 3 Hatch Muta, 7:30 or 6:30 or something? All I know is it exists. Same can be said for Lurker on ramp and Defiler. There is a definite timing that I guess many people rely on intuitively but pros probably know by heart. | ||
|
RoomOfMush
1296 Posts
On April 15 2016 14:33 Shinokuki wrote: That's not really timing though. Most terrans on fish get it down so well on fs since rush distance is so short. 3 tank push is easy thing to do as well as turrets. They face it so much that turrets are already there before mutas arrive. There's really no timings for zergs. Zergs defend and if they defend well enough to 4 bases they are good. Of course thats a timing. You have to do it at the right time or else you are fucked. How else would you define a "timing" if it isnt something that has to do with time? Terran is full of these timings to remember. When to build turrets, when to do a bio push, when to do an early tank push, when to do a push with your first vessel, etc etc. | ||
|
Shinokuki
United States859 Posts
On April 15 2016 15:45 RoomOfMush wrote: Of course thats a timing. You have to do it at the right time or else you are fucked. How else would you define a "timing" if it isnt something that has to do with time? Terran is full of these timings to remember. When to build turrets, when to do a bio push, when to do an early tank push, when to do a push with your first vessel, etc etc. I would define timing as in the player who devises a timing to critically damage or even end opposing opponent. I.e like 3 tank push from terran to kill zerg before defiler is out. 3 hat muta, 2 hat muta those are just part of standard builds that eventually evolve into hive play. Those plays are essential for zergs to evolve. Toss death ball to kill the zerg or terran death ball to kill zerg are all timings in my opinion. Now going back to original topic. Like i said, pick terran if you're really into challenging stuff. Right now toss is by far the most popular race on fish. There's a reason koreans call fish toss server or amateur leagues toss leagues. Only the TRUE zerg elites survive. But oh well they still get destroyed at top level by top tier terran because zerg is by far one of the hardest race to understand and control. When understood, zerg is probably top tier hence why effort and zero are slaying everyone and in amateur /semi pro level, terrans and protosses are slaying. | ||
|
todespolka
221 Posts
On April 09 2016 20:28 coolprogrammingstuff wrote: BW isn't really so much like there's better races at stages of games, like there is in SC2. Sure, some late game tech might be, but it's well compensated from actions earlier in the game, rather than periods where it ends up being 50/50 like in SC2. I'd have to say terran sounds like you want, even if you take that into account. Sounds like you would really like TvP, in particular, if you want to split the map and just dominate lategame armies that find hard it hard to attack into. When you're D+/C- it's hard with carriers/unit control, but terran is pretty hard at that level. If you look at it objectively at a top-level, this starts to become the case a bit more, however! Also getting back into the game a bit more if you're down for a couple No idea what you mean. Do you say sc2 has an asymmetric balance? Then i have to say bw too. Dont forget. Bw requires a lot of unneeded clicks. If you want to produce a unit, you need to go through all production buildings. This is not fun and meaningless. But it makes the game more skill based and thats why the asymmetric balance is less obvious. Nontheless lotv is a different game and much more like bw. Thats not a generic post of a sc2 player. Many people think that way. | ||
|
Deleted User 132135
702 Posts
| ||
|
Mojzii1
30 Posts
On April 19 2016 02:38 LSN wrote: Terran is best if you wanna blame balance on a frequent basis without being considered a whiner on TL. woah really? Im currently C- and in my opinion Terran is very very strong | ||
|
nbaker
United States1341 Posts
If you'd been some shitbag diamond or platinum player, I'd say play Terran, but given the situation Protoss is the only reasonable option. | ||
|
iloveav
Poland1478 Posts
Pick random. Its the best way to get to know all races until you decide on one. | ||
|
B-royal
Belgium1330 Posts
| ||
|
[sc1f]eonzerg
Belgium6585 Posts
| ||
|
Cr4zyH0r5e
Peru1308 Posts
On April 15 2016 06:22 Jealous wrote: 3 Hatch Muta into getting your 3rd expo with Lurkers morphing on ramp for defense, then you have to have consume + Defiler ready to stop the 3 Tank push timing. At least that's my understanding of "timing" from the standard Zerg perspective. I'm guessing Chef was referring to the fact that if you don't start Turrets at the right time vs. 3 Hatch Muta (or 2 Hatch Muta, as you said), then you're fucked. If you don't do your 3 Tank push before Zerg has consume and Defiler, you're also fucked, because you NEED to push in order to retain map control? From my outsider perspective on TvZ, at least. The main thing about it having a "timing" is because if you build them too early you set back your macro & unit production & delay your tech. Ideally you want to have them start building when mutas start moving towards your base so that they'll be done right as they arrive. Which for 3 hatch is around 7:30. Sometimes you forget with everything else that's going on (harass, zergling runbys scouting, macro, comsats, denying 3rd base, etc) It's one of the reasons I turned to opening fake mech, or doing fast valkyries from standard openings. even if you mess up your turret timing you have a way of defending against the mutas. provided you have decent micro and building placement. TvZ is only favored towards terran if the terran actually knows what he's doing. Until you figure it out, it's going to be a painful experience. On April 09 2016 16:40 Jealous wrote: Have fun ^^ I've recently began to enjoy playing Terran more recently (I'd say I offrace the majority of the time now). There's really no comparable feeling in this game to having 5 control groups of Mech and fat line of Siege Tanks, or covering an entire map with Mines and using them as a tracking device on the Protoss army combined with the maphax Comsat xD However, I've finally appreciated the patience that is required to play Terran, finally. Also, understanding the logic behind timings. That's really important for Terrans. A strong timing push is so brutal @_@; I think it's something like 2-1 180? So dirty. Also, dropship play? :D On topic: Pick the race that feels most comfortable when you're playing. I used to think P was super easy and tried to get good at it to no effect, then I switched to T and things just came naturally after understanding the match ups. Also, I love vultures and valkyries. Have fun! | ||
|
pebble444
Italy2497 Posts
On April 20 2016 08:47 Cr4zyH0r5e wrote: Pick the race that feels most comfortable when you're playing. I used to think P was super easy and tried to get good at it to no effect, then I switched to T and things just came naturally after understanding the match ups. Also, I love vultures and valkyries. Have fun! CrazyHorse! come back to play Broodwar! | ||
|
Jealous
10152 Posts
On April 20 2016 08:47 Cr4zyH0r5e wrote: The main thing about it having a "timing" is because if you build them too early you set back your macro & unit production & delay your tech. Ideally you want to have them start building when mutas start moving towards your base so that they'll be done right as they arrive. Which for 3 hatch is around 7:30. Sometimes you forget with everything else that's going on (harass, zergling runbys scouting, macro, comsats, denying 3rd base, etc) It's one of the reasons I turned to opening fake mech, or doing fast valkyries from standard openings. even if you mess up your turret timing you have a way of defending against the mutas. provided you have decent micro and building placement. TvZ is only favored towards terran if the terran actually knows what he's doing. Until you figure it out, it's going to be a painful experience. Also, dropship play? :D On topic: Pick the race that feels most comfortable when you're playing. I used to think P was super easy and tried to get good at it to no effect, then I switched to T and things just came naturally after understanding the match ups. Also, I love vultures and valkyries. Have fun! Yoo, long time no see ^^ How've you been? I used to play Terran with Dropship every game, Mech vZ, all of that. It was fun but it felt gimmicky and when I got denied, I got denied HARD. The other day I almost lost to a 100 apm D~ level Protoss because I went Vulture drop and he went 1 Gate, no Range, Robo + Reaver, no Obs, but FORGE + 2 CANNONS in his mineral line and 1 cannon at the front. Meanwhile, I went CC before Ebay and had only 4 Marines and 1 Tank to defend against 1 Zeal 1 Reaver drop. I lost damn near all of my SCVs and did zero damage in exchange. If the Protoss plays safe or defensive, drop sets you back too, IMO. I've been much more consistent by playing standard, and in the process have improved my play and knowledge more than I ever would have as a harass-oriented Dropship player xD | ||
|
chrisolo
Germany2606 Posts
On April 19 2016 14:29 nbaker wrote: A lot of you guys seem to be ignoring the fact that this guy was top masters in SC2. If you'd been some shitbag diamond or platinum player, I'd say play Terran, but given the situation Protoss is the only reasonable option. Are you serious? | ||
|
AttackZerg
United States7454 Posts
The only race that has never been fully realized is Zerg. With each other race all of the best responses and actions have been coursed through, but with Zerg there is an infinite amount of intelligent or indulgent approaches you can take. This is true in the early game, in the middle game and in late game: Zerg is an Art. Protoss is trolling. Terran is work. Choose a race that shares your infinite potential for genius. Join the hive and free your mind. | ||
|
genevaadmi12
3 Posts
| ||
|
B-royal
Belgium1330 Posts
On May 02 2016 17:38 AttackZerg wrote: Zerg. The only race that has never been fully realized is Zerg. With each other race all of the best responses and actions have been coursed through, but with Zerg there is an infinite amount of intelligent or indulgent approaches you can take. This is true in the early game, in the middle game and in late game: Zerg is an Art. Protoss is trolling. Terran is work. Choose a race that shares your infinite potential for genius. Join the hive and free your mind. Lol, great post :D. Nice to find some like-minded broods around here. | ||
|
XenOsky
Chile2270 Posts
| ||
|
Ty2
United States1434 Posts
| ||
| ||
