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I really don't know waht to do when toss goes 1 gate continous zealot to 2 gate goon range to 3 gate range goon with obs. I looked at the replay and I could only see that my control was bad? I don't really know. Waht would be a counter to this strat? Like vs dt u go mine turret or vs reaver siege mode tank with turret so what would be a solid "counter" to this? Just micro better? Also since he went 3 gate I shoulnd't have expanded directly on nat but at my base right? But I had no idea he did 3 gate due to the continous coming of zealot/goon so what should I have done in that situation?
Replay here:
http://www.yousendit.com/transfer.php?action=download&ufid=B78B7C02101F2B09
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Korea (South)11576 Posts
your micro with your first 2 marines could of been a lot better, his first zealot killed 2 marines and a scv. You could of easily stopped that with some better micro.
you missed your 2nd supply depot 
you had 385 minerals 190 gas before your first factory, it could of been up a lot sooner
your 3rd supply was late
I would of took 3-4 scv's instead of 2 to the ramp and use hold position, that way you can repair them, making it harder to get through. Also, he had 3 zealots kill like 6 marines and 5 scv's. You could of easily held that off sooner. By the time he got that far, it was over.
you should of made your supply depots at ~14-15,~21,~28 etc... to keep your unit production nice and smooth
Edit: Also, don't get 1 factory then expo vs 3 gate. You need a 2nd factory to keep up with his unit production for a little while, then once you secure yourself with tanks/vultures at your natural then expand
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use scv to block ur ramp and make enuff marines uisually 4 in TvP and u shud rape his zlots its like 50/50 since u never know just how good the other guy micro will be but it depend if u brot 12 scv to ramp he cud and wud not break thru vs ur wall/4marines. etc... just try blocking ramp when u know P gonna zeal rush and make ur regular 4-6 marins additional marines if u think u have to vs zlots etc.. its all up to what makes u feel comfortable.
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On January 03 2007 14:09 GMer wrote:
use scv to block ur ramp and make enuff marines uisually 4 in TvP and u shud rape his zlots its like 50/50 since u never know just how good the other guy micro will be but it depend if u brot 12 scv to ramp he cud and wud not break thru vs ur wall/4marines. etc... just try blocking ramp when u know P gonna zeal rush and make ur regular 4-6 marins additional marines if u think u have to vs zlots etc.. its all up to what makes u feel comfortable.
Usually in Luna when his first zlot arrives you only have only 1-2 marines, it's better to just to follow this advice than waste SCV's at your ramp:
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?currentpage=1&topic_id=42920
The building placement shown in that thread really kills this "rush," as long as you have ur rax and supply close to your scv. If he trys to attack your SCVs, just surround it with them and focus fire with rines. Remember if ur caught in the open to constantly retreat the marine the zlot is attacking so it can take damage from the other. Always build your fact fairly close to your main on luna, that way everything is protected by that pseudo wall shown in skyglow's thread.
Don't attack after you've held him off. Just get mines and expo. Be careful for DTs, as they are a very common follow up to any initial zeal attack.
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you should just hold your ramp 
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If you scout the zealot on his way, just hold the ramp with 3 scvs and 2 rines. When he kills the first scv, move the 3rd in the way to block the ramp again. If you don't scout the zealot, and the only time you see him is when he is making his way up your ramp, move your 2 rines back, bring 3-4 scv and micro. Your 3rd rine should come out soon also. A little micro and its easy to block.
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United States20661 Posts
or you can pretend to be boxer [boxer vs pusan on RoV] and micro your two marines like a madman while waiting for vulture. Then proceed normally.
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On January 03 2007 14:28 Myxomatosis wrote:Show nested quote +On January 03 2007 14:09 GMer wrote:
use scv to block ur ramp and make enuff marines uisually 4 in TvP and u shud rape his zlots its like 50/50 since u never know just how good the other guy micro will be but it depend if u brot 12 scv to ramp he cud and wud not break thru vs ur wall/4marines. etc... just try blocking ramp when u know P gonna zeal rush and make ur regular 4-6 marins additional marines if u think u have to vs zlots etc.. its all up to what makes u feel comfortable. Usually in Luna when his first zlot arrives you only have only 1-2 marines, it's better to just to follow this advice than waste SCV's at your ramp: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?currentpage=1&topic_id=42920The building placement shown in that thread really kills this "rush," as long as you have ur rax and supply close to your scv. If he trys to attack your SCVs, just surround it with them and focus fire with rines. Remember if ur caught in the open to constantly retreat the marine the zlot is attacking so it can take damage from the other. Always build your fact fairly close to your main on luna, that way everything is protected by that pseudo wall shown in skyglow's thread. Don't attack after you've held him off. Just get mines and expo. Be careful for DTs, as they are a very common follow up to any initial zeal attack.
If a terran ever did that to my zealots -_-;; its very easy to grab alot of scv kills while just taking a few hits from marine. As a terran player, it is much better to use 1-2 scv + 2 marines in order to micro zealot. its quite more efficient.
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On January 03 2007 15:26 SnOwYdaY wrote:Show nested quote +On January 03 2007 14:28 Myxomatosis wrote:On January 03 2007 14:09 GMer wrote:
use scv to block ur ramp and make enuff marines uisually 4 in TvP and u shud rape his zlots its like 50/50 since u never know just how good the other guy micro will be but it depend if u brot 12 scv to ramp he cud and wud not break thru vs ur wall/4marines. etc... just try blocking ramp when u know P gonna zeal rush and make ur regular 4-6 marins additional marines if u think u have to vs zlots etc.. its all up to what makes u feel comfortable. Usually in Luna when his first zlot arrives you only have only 1-2 marines, it's better to just to follow this advice than waste SCV's at your ramp: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?currentpage=1&topic_id=42920The building placement shown in that thread really kills this "rush," as long as you have ur rax and supply close to your scv. If he trys to attack your SCVs, just surround it with them and focus fire with rines. Remember if ur caught in the open to constantly retreat the marine the zlot is attacking so it can take damage from the other. Always build your fact fairly close to your main on luna, that way everything is protected by that pseudo wall shown in skyglow's thread. Don't attack after you've held him off. Just get mines and expo. Be careful for DTs, as they are a very common follow up to any initial zeal attack. If a terran ever did that to my zealots -_-;; its very easy to grab alot of scv kills while just taking a few hits from marine. As a terran player, it is much better to use 1-2 scv + 2 marines in order to micro zealot. its quite more efficient.
if you scout him late you aren't going to be prepared to hold ur ramp.
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United States20661 Posts
On January 03 2007 15:57 Myxomatosis wrote:Show nested quote +On January 03 2007 15:26 SnOwYdaY wrote:On January 03 2007 14:28 Myxomatosis wrote:On January 03 2007 14:09 GMer wrote:
use scv to block ur ramp and make enuff marines uisually 4 in TvP and u shud rape his zlots its like 50/50 since u never know just how good the other guy micro will be but it depend if u brot 12 scv to ramp he cud and wud not break thru vs ur wall/4marines. etc... just try blocking ramp when u know P gonna zeal rush and make ur regular 4-6 marins additional marines if u think u have to vs zlots etc.. its all up to what makes u feel comfortable. Usually in Luna when his first zlot arrives you only have only 1-2 marines, it's better to just to follow this advice than waste SCV's at your ramp: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?currentpage=1&topic_id=42920The building placement shown in that thread really kills this "rush," as long as you have ur rax and supply close to your scv. If he trys to attack your SCVs, just surround it with them and focus fire with rines. Remember if ur caught in the open to constantly retreat the marine the zlot is attacking so it can take damage from the other. Always build your fact fairly close to your main on luna, that way everything is protected by that pseudo wall shown in skyglow's thread. Don't attack after you've held him off. Just get mines and expo. Be careful for DTs, as they are a very common follow up to any initial zeal attack. If a terran ever did that to my zealots -_-;; its very easy to grab alot of scv kills while just taking a few hits from marine. As a terran player, it is much better to use 1-2 scv + 2 marines in order to micro zealot. its quite more efficient. if you scout him late you aren't going to be prepared to hold ur ramp.
Don't need ramp. Just do it like in base marine vs zergling, except vs zealot instead.
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United States42539 Posts
I often do 1 zee into 2-3 gate goon on luna. If you can pylon factory it's often gg then. Zee catches a lot of Ts off guard and then vults vs goons is just not gonna happen. The mining time lost to actually chase down the vults as well as the losses of scvs are pretty fatal. Without the rines goons just don't die and the zee will take care of maybe 2-3 rines when it arrives. Even if he micros they'll all be on low hp. The goons will win.
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Well If you expo early what i would sugest you do is get up maybe 1 or 2 bunkers. They work wonders with say 4 scvs repairing them. If you can do that and have seige mode i think you can pretty much hold anything a toss can bring within the first 5 minutes. Just remember to hotkey the scvs repairing or you will lose quickly.
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mmm i guess it's a micro thing...
if u are really scared get a bunker till your Tank arrives
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On January 03 2007 15:26 SnOwYdaY wrote:Show nested quote +On January 03 2007 14:28 Myxomatosis wrote:On January 03 2007 14:09 GMer wrote:
use scv to block ur ramp and make enuff marines uisually 4 in TvP and u shud rape his zlots its like 50/50 since u never know just how good the other guy micro will be but it depend if u brot 12 scv to ramp he cud and wud not break thru vs ur wall/4marines. etc... just try blocking ramp when u know P gonna zeal rush and make ur regular 4-6 marins additional marines if u think u have to vs zlots etc.. its all up to what makes u feel comfortable. Usually in Luna when his first zlot arrives you only have only 1-2 marines, it's better to just to follow this advice than waste SCV's at your ramp: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?currentpage=1&topic_id=42920The building placement shown in that thread really kills this "rush," as long as you have ur rax and supply close to your scv. If he trys to attack your SCVs, just surround it with them and focus fire with rines. Remember if ur caught in the open to constantly retreat the marine the zlot is attacking so it can take damage from the other. Always build your fact fairly close to your main on luna, that way everything is protected by that pseudo wall shown in skyglow's thread. Don't attack after you've held him off. Just get mines and expo. Be careful for DTs, as they are a very common follow up to any initial zeal attack. If a terran ever did that to my zealots -_-;; its very easy to grab alot of scv kills while just taking a few hits from marine. As a terran player, it is much better to use 1-2 scv + 2 marines in order to micro zealot. its quite more efficient.
I didn't make my post clear enough in that topic. The point is the marine can run through the gap while the zealot takes the long way around the buildings. You won't be able to get scv kills because I can shoot at you and if you decide to comes towards me I'll just move towards the gap. If you decide then to go back to the scvs, I'll shoot at you again, and if you decide instead to keep following me and try and attack me, I'll just run past the gap. In this way you can apply basically no damage and my marine is safe.
Only when theres 2 zealots then you can trap the marine so that it cant keep running through the gap. The first zealot can be taken care of quickly. Most of the time the first zealot simply runs away and waits for another zealot in this case.
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the proper counter:
+ Show Spoiler +
the obvious anti-build:
depot, rax, depot, gas (as opposed to) depot, rax, gas
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On January 03 2007 20:00 skyglow1 wrote:Show nested quote +On January 03 2007 15:26 SnOwYdaY wrote:On January 03 2007 14:28 Myxomatosis wrote:On January 03 2007 14:09 GMer wrote:
use scv to block ur ramp and make enuff marines uisually 4 in TvP and u shud rape his zlots its like 50/50 since u never know just how good the other guy micro will be but it depend if u brot 12 scv to ramp he cud and wud not break thru vs ur wall/4marines. etc... just try blocking ramp when u know P gonna zeal rush and make ur regular 4-6 marins additional marines if u think u have to vs zlots etc.. its all up to what makes u feel comfortable. Usually in Luna when his first zlot arrives you only have only 1-2 marines, it's better to just to follow this advice than waste SCV's at your ramp: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?currentpage=1&topic_id=42920The building placement shown in that thread really kills this "rush," as long as you have ur rax and supply close to your scv. If he trys to attack your SCVs, just surround it with them and focus fire with rines. Remember if ur caught in the open to constantly retreat the marine the zlot is attacking so it can take damage from the other. Always build your fact fairly close to your main on luna, that way everything is protected by that pseudo wall shown in skyglow's thread. Don't attack after you've held him off. Just get mines and expo. Be careful for DTs, as they are a very common follow up to any initial zeal attack. If a terran ever did that to my zealots -_-;; its very easy to grab alot of scv kills while just taking a few hits from marine. As a terran player, it is much better to use 1-2 scv + 2 marines in order to micro zealot. its quite more efficient. I didn't make my post clear enough in that topic. The point is the marine can run through the gap while the zealot takes the long way around the buildings. You won't be able to get scv kills because I can shoot at you and if you decide to comes towards me I'll just move towards the gap. If you decide then to go back to the scvs, I'll shoot at you again, and if you decide instead to keep following me and try and attack me, I'll just run past the gap. In this way you can apply basically no damage and my marine is safe. Only when theres 2 zealots then you can trap the marine so that it cant keep running through the gap. The first zealot can be taken care of quickly. Most of the time the first zealot simply runs away and waits for another zealot in this case.
Yeah, I've used that tactic a couple times and i know what you mean 
Yes, that can happen ^^. I agree with you. Its just that i am willing to take a few hits from a marine in order to nab a few scvs. Heck, i might sacrifice that zealot ^^. If you play a hit and run game with the scvs.. Just stating my opinion on the subject
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On January 03 2007 21:03 SnOwYdaY wrote:Show nested quote +On January 03 2007 20:00 skyglow1 wrote:On January 03 2007 15:26 SnOwYdaY wrote:On January 03 2007 14:28 Myxomatosis wrote:On January 03 2007 14:09 GMer wrote:
use scv to block ur ramp and make enuff marines uisually 4 in TvP and u shud rape his zlots its like 50/50 since u never know just how good the other guy micro will be but it depend if u brot 12 scv to ramp he cud and wud not break thru vs ur wall/4marines. etc... just try blocking ramp when u know P gonna zeal rush and make ur regular 4-6 marins additional marines if u think u have to vs zlots etc.. its all up to what makes u feel comfortable. Usually in Luna when his first zlot arrives you only have only 1-2 marines, it's better to just to follow this advice than waste SCV's at your ramp: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?currentpage=1&topic_id=42920The building placement shown in that thread really kills this "rush," as long as you have ur rax and supply close to your scv. If he trys to attack your SCVs, just surround it with them and focus fire with rines. Remember if ur caught in the open to constantly retreat the marine the zlot is attacking so it can take damage from the other. Always build your fact fairly close to your main on luna, that way everything is protected by that pseudo wall shown in skyglow's thread. Don't attack after you've held him off. Just get mines and expo. Be careful for DTs, as they are a very common follow up to any initial zeal attack. If a terran ever did that to my zealots -_-;; its very easy to grab alot of scv kills while just taking a few hits from marine. As a terran player, it is much better to use 1-2 scv + 2 marines in order to micro zealot. its quite more efficient. I didn't make my post clear enough in that topic. The point is the marine can run through the gap while the zealot takes the long way around the buildings. You won't be able to get scv kills because I can shoot at you and if you decide to comes towards me I'll just move towards the gap. If you decide then to go back to the scvs, I'll shoot at you again, and if you decide instead to keep following me and try and attack me, I'll just run past the gap. In this way you can apply basically no damage and my marine is safe. Only when theres 2 zealots then you can trap the marine so that it cant keep running through the gap. The first zealot can be taken care of quickly. Most of the time the first zealot simply runs away and waits for another zealot in this case. Yeah, I've used that tactic a couple times and i know what you mean Yes, that can happen ^^. I agree with you. Its just that i am willing to take a few hits from a marine in order to nab a few scvs. Heck, i might sacrifice that zealot ^^. If you play a hit and run game with the scvs.. Just stating my opinion on the subject
Well then the situation becomes simply 5 scvs or so (the ones close to your zealot at the mineral line) + how ever many rines the guy has vs your zealot, which is a horrible situation to be in
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Ok i have a friend who is zeal happy vs Terran on luna with a build he made up... has managed to beat A+ Terrans. He will make his gateway @ his choke 8pylon;10gate;10gas. Send 2 zeals early and make a cyber core. then a dragoon + add-on another gateway. After 2nd dragoon he expos and techs to DT's and Robo. and goes for Reaver/Dt. O.O very hard to beat without micro. He also attempts a gas steal if he can. Ok but the way i beat it is the 1st zeal comes when you have 2 marines...stall for the 3rd building (always get 4 rines unless you can hold your block with 1 rax or 1rax/depot O.O. Then micro 3 rines and 2 scvs vs the 1 zeal. Make a vult before add-on and get a 1fact CC going. then make non-stop rines ( 8 ). Hold your ramp with 8 rine/Vult which can > 3 dragoons w/ ramp advantage.Soon after get ebay and DT is no longer a problem hence you can upgrade mines while Tank is building and secure your choke . Then macro.
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EPT
