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Liquid`Jinro
Sweden33719 Posts
On August 23 2005 14:17 ShadowMaster wrote: Does it work that way? I had always thought that Defensive Matrix did not reduce damage from Irradiate, just as Protoss shields do not. lol  Thanks Works. | ||
GrandInquisitor
New York City13113 Posts
Using sacrificial units because units in a bunker can't target a specific object. | ||
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ShadowMaster
United States238 Posts
On August 24 2005 07:10 GrandInquisitor wrote: Using overlords to soak up splash in muta v muta battles. Using sacrificial units because units in a bunker can't target a specific object. How does the Bunker AI work? How do they decide what is targeted? On August 23 2005 Knickknack wrote: morphing dts infront of a dt blocked ramp to force your way though. How does that work? (Dark) Archons can't be cancelled, so I don't see how this helps to break a ramp. On August 23 2005 Echo wrote: only a newbie (meaning someone fairly new at the game) would consider 98% of what you said to be new or even "tricks".... My original post stated that these aren't meant to be "new". Yes, this is a very basic thread with the greatest use to "newbies"; however, judging by many of the other threads that have been started in this forum lately, it may very well prove useful to many of TL.nets readers. These are little tactics and finesses that the more experienced take for granted, but that those who are new to the game or switching races might normally not pick up for a long time. Finally, some of them might be worth discussion. For example, what is the current opinion on the value of Zerg gas-tricking? Can a probe really get through a Terran box-in with nothing but a pylon? When should you bother to offensive gas? | ||
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sundance
Slovakia3201 Posts
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ZaplinG
United States3818 Posts
- if you morph a hurt drone into a building, then cancel it, it will return to full health - and if you want to do 'every little bit you can', you can steal 8 minerals from their base at the start with scout  - stim before loading into bunker -------------- bunker ai is random, although you can force it to shoot specific targets by sending them in in whatever order you want you have to have three dark archons to jump a wall. morph two to push one yes, a probe can get through a terran box-in with nothing but a pylon and you should offensive gas in: zvt - when you want to delay factory and force m&m instead of mech... or if you want to create a diversion for your rush and to slow medic/fbat zvz - not worth it unless you are close spots and are trying to rush zvp - same as zvz tvt - always go for it to slow factory tvp - do it to slow goons tvz - no need pvt - do to slow factory and help make your goon rush easier pvz - maybe do it to slow lurk and make a diversion for rush pvp - do it to force them to go zealots | ||
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koehli
Germany350 Posts
On August 24 2005 08:36 ShadowMaster wrote: My original post stated that these aren't meant to be "new". Yes, this is a very basic thread with the greatest use to "newbies"; great idea; i love how it reminds us of how much of our brain capacity is wasted by starcraft trivia ;-) On to some (hopefully correct) answers. Finally, some of them might be worth discussion. For example, what is the current opinion on the value of Zerg gas-tricking? I think the current opinion is, that it's the whole trick of a Hatch on 10 build without overlord and good for 9pools with relatively quick gas . Most commonly (12 hatch 11 pool) it's marginally inferior to just waiting for your overlord though. Can a probe really get through a Terran box-in with nothing but a pylon? Yes. Move towards the depot and than build the pylon + shift-click when the probe still moves. There are micro maps to train such stuff. When should you bother to offensive gas? PvT or TvT it usually can't hurt. ZvT it's not that grand most of the times i guess. I've got that anti manner pylon pylon to offer btw :-) | ||
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ShadowMaster
United States238 Posts
On August 24 2005 09:40 ZaplinG wrote: - you can kill scv with a drone/probe with a little bit of micro, as drone/probes have longer range Ah, yes. The devil-probe. I've never seen it done, though. Any examples and/or tips for proper execution? - if you morph a hurt drone into a building, then cancel it, it will return to full health I seem to remember from experience that this isn't completely true; they will have more health, but not full. Or maybe it has to do with how much hp the building had? Anyone know how this works? - and if you want to do 'every little bit you can', you can steal 8 minerals from their base at the start with scout I won't add this, as it is really not influential or skillful; only annoying. - stim before loading into bunker -------------- bunker ai is random, although you can force it to shoot specific targets by sending them in in whatever order you want Bunkers tend to "unfocus fire". Anyone know how they decide what/how many to target? Is it locational? you have to have three dark archons to jump a wall. morph two to push one yes, a probe can get through a terran box-in with nothing but a pylon Example/tips? and you should offensive gas in: zvt - when you want to delay factory and force m&m instead of mech... or if you want to create a diversion for your rush and to slow medic/fbat zvz - not worth it unless you are close spots and are trying to rush zvp - same as zvz tvt - always go for it to slow factory tvp - do it to slow goons tvz - no need pvt - do to slow factory and help make your goon rush easier pvz - maybe do it to slow lurk and make a diversion for rush I have never seen it used here; it doesn't do much sense, as the typical lings can quickly tear it down anyway (or they may not even get gas until after 3rd hatch) and the 100 min is better spent for a Zealot. pvp - do it to force them to go zealots Thanks for the input! | ||
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ZaplinG
United States3818 Posts
drone returns to 100% full health. ive done this many many times to prolong the life of my scout its easiest to push yourself over/through a wall if you stand in a corner and then build/morph/unburrow (if you position a unit on top of a burrowed unit, then unburrow the burrowed unit, it will push the one that was previously on top) also, while they are being 'pushed', it helps to spam rightclick on the other side and i agree - you dont see many tosses offensive gassing zergs. i was just giving the only possible reason i could think for someone who desperately wanted to do it. [edit] thought of another one for terran/toss: building cheap buildings to block things. such as... supply depos/turrets in front of tanks to prevent units from getting close in, or building cannons in untouchable safe spaces between pylons and gateways | ||
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StarN
United States2587 Posts
On August 23 2005 22:50 Echo wrote: this thread = newbie micro dictionary True... | ||
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Echo
United States435 Posts
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Knickknack
United States1187 Posts
drone drill i think qualifies. boxers scv escape mabey boxers rax wall mabey http://www.sclegacy.com/features/pimpestplays_2003.php manner rax elkys frosting? buildings used to keep a player from getting out of his base. pylon prison like i was talkign about..also the counter to this is to take up the space inside the blocked in space with workers in order to have your units spawn outside the blocked in space. http://www.sclegacy.com/features/pimpestplays_2004.php shows the dt thing anti cannon rush thing, has to do with stacking workers then shift clicking behind the mins in order to kill the probe trying to build stuff, or somethign like that, not sure how its done exactly. dunno why echo has such a problem with this list, somthings is better then nothing eh. Think of tricks as just special skills that can be done within the game. just attackmoving is not special or take much skill or knowledge of the game. | ||
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Echo
United States435 Posts
On August 24 2005 12:38 Knickknack wrote: http://www.sclegacy.com/features/pimpestplays_2002.php drone drill i think qualifies. boxers scv escape mabey boxers rax wall mabey http://www.sclegacy.com/features/pimpestplays_2003.php manner rax elkys frosting? buildings used to keep a player from getting out of his base. pylon prison like i was talkign about..also the counter to this is to take up the space inside the blocked in space with workers in order to have your units spawn outside the blocked in space. http://www.sclegacy.com/features/pimpestplays_2004.php shows the dt thing anti cannon rush thing, has to do with stacking workers then shift clicking behind the mins in order to kill the probe trying to build stuff, or somethign like that, not sure how its done exactly. dunno why echo has such a problem with this list, somthings is better then nothing eh. Think of tricks as just special skills that can be done within the game. just attackmoving is not special or take much skill or knowledge of the game. thats the whole point,neither is most of the stuff he mentioned..a few things some people mentioned are pretty good, but as a whole its pretty much a joke. A list of things that were innovative 2-3 years ago is pretty blah. Its also funny cause shadowmaster has obviously no idea what hes talking about... | ||
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OuT[GG]
Canada116 Posts
On August 23 2005 22:50 Echo wrote: this thread = newbie micro dictionary Hahah, sad but so true :D | ||
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ShadowMaster
United States238 Posts
Indeed, that is the point. Newbies have to go somewhere, and there are already many here. | ||
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Cloud
Sexico5880 Posts
If you research burrow, you can use a drone to make an extractor and before it starts building it order it to burrow, the opponent cant build a gas there before he gets detection. | ||
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Cloud
Sexico5880 Posts
On August 24 2005 09:40 ZaplinG wrote: and you should offensive gas in: zvt - when you want to delay factory and force m&m instead of mech... or if you want to create a diversion for your rush and to slow medic/fbat zvz - not worth it unless you are close spots and are trying to rush zvp - same as zvz tvz - no need pvt - do to slow factory and help make your goon rush easier pvz - maybe do it to slow lurk and make a diversion for rush pvp - do it to force them to go zealots this is wrong, offensive gas is annoying at every single matchup, except perhaps for pvz, but still annoying. In zvt its mostly used when you are rushing with zerglings the point of it is trying to make the terran focus their marines on your extractor, leaving his ramp open for your lings, so as forcing them to something, they will be merely tempted slightly higher than before to fast expand, nothing else. In zvz gas is even more important than minerals, having mutas 30 seconds earlier than your opponent or having 2 more mutas at a certain point can decide the game, but imo its just better to build an offensive creep even if you arent sunkening. in zvp a lot of zergs do offensive gas as soon as they see 2 gates, it forces the toss to do something about it, crappy tosses will let your extractor live for too long, allowing you to kill them with especially muta in the long run. In tvz there are plenty of terrans that do it as well, some of them do it as well as bunker rush you, late gas is harmful for zerg unless he is 3 hatching or something In pvt it is easilly the most annoying... In pvz i can see no real use for it.. zerg doenst really rush lurkers like that and it only forces to either mass ling from the zerg which in turn will force the toss to defend especially when they 1 gate, since its, i think, most used in those ocasions, or either the zerg just power drones. In pvp forcing them to go zealots, when they already planned to be doing them anyway, since you wont be really able to gas them unless they 2 gate, forces you to make zealots as well, so its more harmful for you anyway | ||
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Liquid`Jinro
Sweden33719 Posts
On August 24 2005 09:40 ZaplinG wrote: - you can kill scv with a drone/probe with a little bit of micro, as drone/probes have longer range - if you morph a hurt drone into a building, then cancel it, it will return to full health - and if you want to do 'every little bit you can', you can steal 8 minerals from their base at the start with scout - stim before loading into bunker -------------- bunker ai is random, although you can force it to shoot specific targets by sending them in in whatever order you want you have to have three dark archons to jump a wall. morph two to push one yes, a probe can get through a terran box-in with nothing but a pylon and you should offensive gas in: zvt - when you want to delay factory and force m&m instead of mech... or if you want to create a diversion for your rush and to slow medic/fbat zvz - not worth it unless you are close spots and are trying to rush zvp - same as zvz Gas rush ZvP is worth it in LOADS of situations, for example if he's rushing, and you know he won't be able to do much, taking gas is good since now he can't tech AND rush. Gas rushing just to limit his options is great as well. tvt - always go for it to slow factory tvp - do it to slow goons tvz - no need Wrong, TvZ gas rush can be great on maps like nostalgia where there's no gas at nat. pvt - do to slow factory and help make your goon rush easier pvz - maybe do it to slow lurk and make a diversion for rush pvp - do it to force them to go zealots No about PvZ, do it when you tech and he isn't expanding (you shouldn't be rushing if he's not expanding anyhow). Or on maps like nost with no gas at nat ;O EDIT: A nice, annoying, thing to do is to starting mining with your scouting probe at one of the opponents mineral patches then pressing stop just before it's done, rinse and repeat (basically they'll only be mining from 7 minerals, if you are fast enough it's worth it). | ||
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Cloud
Sexico5880 Posts
Edit: and i really dont find that annoying, more annoying is having the probe across the mineral lines in such a way it can attack the drones. | ||
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Cloud
Sexico5880 Posts
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Liquid`Jinro
Sweden33719 Posts
Me doing devil probe stuff on that ums map ;p Nothing amazing but Shadowmaster asked how it's done. Attack from an angle = best (diagonal preferably) Do NOT get stuck within the scvs attack range, even if it means not attacking for a round or two, because (and this goes for archons too), if you do, they will take like 2 seconds to back away as they turn on the spot before even attempting to breakaway, meaning you'll lose like 10 shield or more -- | ||
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