EPTTanks and swarm - Page 3
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Hayuken
Sweden201 Posts
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FireBlast!
United Kingdom5251 Posts
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Taguchi
Greece1575 Posts
doesnt really matter if u call it splash or normal damage or w/e, it is 100% of the damage it'd do if the unit wasnt burrowed and got hit | ||
Twisted
Netherlands13554 Posts
On January 25 2005 10:43 FireBlast! wrote: I was toying around with my newb brother with dark swarm + drone drop but drones didnt do any damage under ds.... Drones are ranged units. They don't deal damage under swarm. Only units that deal 100% damage under swarm are melee typed units (like zergling/firebat/zealot) and scarabs/mines. Ranged units like archons/tanks only deal splash damage to units under swarm (yes archon is a ranged unit, and doesn't hit the unit under swarm, so don't TRY to prove me wrong, this is why swarm is awesome vs archons). Burrowed lurkers don't get hit from tankfire if under swarm. I don't know if they get damaged if a unit is next to it, and say.. a tank misses the unit that's next to it, but the animation hits the lurker, I don't know if it gets damaged. | ||
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SCFraser
Canada1534 Posts
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MTF
United States1739 Posts
Map to test on. What this replay shows: Burrowed Lurker does not take direct tank damage. Burrowed Lurkers around the targeted burrowed Lurker take splash damage. Burrowed Lurkers not around the target burrowed Lurker take no damage. Hope this helps. | ||
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Magnade
United States32 Posts
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MTF
United States1739 Posts
On January 25 2005 12:48 Magnade wrote: I was wondering, if a hydralisk is exactly behind the lurker, and the tank shoots, misses the hydra, and hits the lurker dead-on, would the lurker then take splash damage or full damage? Do you mean if the Tank is targeting the Lurker? (There is no other way for the Hydra to take splash.) Tanks may seem like they target multiple units because of their splash damage, but it is only really one. So it would be impossible to miss one target and then hit another. To answer your question, the Hydra would only take splash, and only then if the "animation" for the tank fire hit it. (I forgot to mention that in my post above. Only units within' the animation take the splash damage.) | ||
XaI)CyRiC
United States4471 Posts
On January 25 2005 12:26 MTF wrote: Very Short Replay Map to test on. What this replay shows: Burrowed Lurker does not take direct tank damage. Burrowed Lurkers around the targeted burrowed Lurker take splash damage. Burrowed Lurkers not around the target burrowed Lurker take no damage. Hope this helps. HA! I was right after all! Burrowed units still radiate splash if they're targetted by siege fire, knew I wasn't crazy. Sah-weeeet  | ||
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Taguchi
Greece1575 Posts
On January 25 2005 12:48 Magnade wrote: I was wondering, if a hydralisk is exactly behind the lurker, and the tank shoots, misses the hydra, and hits the lurker dead-on, would the lurker then take splash damage or full damage? if the animation hits dead on the lurker takes 50dmg, which is 100% dmg for a hit by a siege tank dunno if its accounted as splash damage or not, but its 100% of the damage | ||
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SchOOl_VicTIm
Greece2394 Posts
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baal
10541 Posts
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Excalibur_Z
United States12238 Posts
Anyway, most people who have posted in this thread are correct. Units which can attack under swarm (considered melee damage): Zealot Reaver Zergling Firebat Lurker Ultralisk Dark Templar Archon (splash) Siege Tank (splash) Any units with mana-costing special abilities can use them to penetrate the Swarm (Yamato Gun, Psionic Storm, etc.). Static defenses (other than Firebats in Bunkers) cannot penetrate Swarm. To understand the effects of splash vs. Swarm, you must first understand the dynamics of how splash works. Each unit which deals splash damage, with the exception of Firebats and Lurkers, does so in a different blast radius. However, each blast radius has a 100% damage zone (which is not splash but is in fact the main projectile), a 50% damage zone, and a 25% damage zone. When a unit is burrowed, it does not take damage from the 50% and 25% blast zones (splash). However, the projectile itself will always deal full damage. The principle of Dark Swarm is that all ranged attacks will miss. More specifically, projectiles fall short of their intended target. Reavers, Firebats, and Lurkers are ranged units but are not affected by Dark Swarm. You could say the reason is because their attacks remain underneath the Swarm. Tanks and Archons are affected by Dark Swarm. This means that their main projectile will miss, but the 50% and 25% splash zones will still do damage. However, any units that are burrowed will not take splash damage either. This makes them completely invulnerable to these two units, in addition to ordinary ranged attacks. Now, through normal means, burrowed units would be invincible under Swarm. But through a limitation of the engine, it is possible to damage them. Take into account two things: 1) Starcraft is a 2-D game and 2) ranged attacks will always land at the same spot. Expounding on #1: Starcraft understands several Location types - Low Ground, Mid Ground, High Ground, Low Air, Mid Air, and High Air. However, there is no Underground Location - it is included with the other Ground Locations. Because of this, any attacks which carry splash damage that land directly on the burrowed target will deal their full damage. Without detection, this is the only way to kill these units. Expounding on #2: The range of a Siege Tank is 12 matrices. Dark Swarm causes ranged attacks to fall short by about .5 matrices. So, if a Siege Tank attacks a burrowed Lurker at range 10, the shot will land about 9.5 matrices away from the Tank, in a direct line toward the target. Now, consider that there is another unit 10.5 matrices away from the Tank, still in that direct line of targeting. If the Tank were to fire on that unit instead, the shot would predictably land .5 matrices in front of the target, directly hitting the Lurker. Splash damage would then carry over to any surrounding unburrowed units. Now you know a little more about game mechanics =] | ||
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radiaL
Andorra2690 Posts
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evanthebouncy
China491 Posts
On January 25 2005 12:26 MTF wrote: Very Short Replay Map to test on. What this replay shows: Burrowed Lurker does not take direct tank damage. Burrowed Lurkers around the targeted burrowed Lurker take splash damage. Burrowed Lurkers not around the target burrowed Lurker take no damage. Hope this helps. THANKS, k Cyrus u won :D must fix my post now  | ||
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Excalibur_Z
United States12238 Posts
On January 25 2005 17:23 radiaL wrote: excal, instead of writing bnet and BO guides, you should write a big ass library on how the intricate things in SC work That will probably be my next project. I just need enough specific information that's not found in the SCC to actually make a page out of it. | ||
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SchOOl_VicTIm
Greece2394 Posts
 one guy posted that he tested it and he saw burrowed lurkers receiving splash dmg. From what I get by reading excalibur's post is that burrowed units receive NO SPLASH DMG!! wtf???  | ||
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Taguchi
Greece1575 Posts
refer to last big paragraph of excalibur's post for more accurate info btw, really just test the damn thing, before i posted anything i played vs computer, cheated my way to tanks+lurkers and tested everything  MTF's map works even better if u can dl it | ||
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MgZ)Flayer
Finland50 Posts
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88)WhyYouKickMyDog
United States608 Posts
On January 24 2005 14:32 Taguchi wrote: what jazz[auto] says is right, swarm causes tanks to miss their shot 100% of the time but if a unit happens to be burrowed where the missed shot lands, for example a lurker burrowed right beneath the one being targeted, it will take full damage wrong. | ||
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