On November 25 2017 21:01 mishimaBeef wrote: Yeah I just watched Last play TvP on his stream and I just have to voice my concern as I am seeing far too often the same patterns.
In my humble opinion, protosses are mistaken in the correct strategy against terran. I don't understand why they think attacking into terran is a good idea. I understand that when they reach 200 supply they want to trade inefficiently and then remax faster to gain a lead but it just doesn't work out when considering the economics of the situation.
Instead of trading into the terran when maxed first, they should focus on establishing two production sites of approximately 15 gateways each.
Protoss should not be the first to attack into terran, they should be preparing a counter attack as soon as terran moves out. They should be always trying to target the production site and also use recall tactics on the 4th+ bases.
Also, turrets don't stop arbiter if they use a hallucination templar as they should.
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Hallucinations are underused in the late late game, too, and this would allow p to recall further into t bases to avoid mine fields. EMP does counter though, so it's not something that always works, at least the best koreans tend to have vessels in the important spots.
It might be a good idea to send the real arbiters and hallucinations in a row, or in two groups, rather than by just a big clump. This way, one may entice an EMP on fake arbiters from a vessel.
I've seen manner pylons in some vods, but this is my first time playing terran and facing it. I am not sure how to react. If the scv is trapped, I will of course use that scv to attack the pylon, but do I use other scvs to do the same? how many? Or do I leave it alone and wait for my rines to take care of it?
What if the protoss constantly makes manner pylons? Like 2 or more. Do I use scvs to destroy the pylon as soon as possible?
Usually when the toss manner pylons, there is zealot pressure. so the rines can't even destroy the pylons because they must first kill the zealots. Could someone enlighten me so that I can shut this down? I'm thinking that I should place bunker down near my minerals to kill the pylon and defend against zealots. But perhaps there is a better way that you guys can tell me.
if your marine is hitting the pylon you can probably just use the trapped scvs to hit. if your marine has to fight zealots, you want like 4 scvs to bring the pylon down. your barracks has to have a supply sim and you need good micro though. if you lose one or two marines then you will need to pull even more scvs to fight zealots and then youre just way too behind. building a bunker is no good because you are already short on money and you need to control your ramp asap.
how do you hop the scv out? i know the stop move jump (where you have a bunch of scvs gathering the same mineral and then press stop), but not how to get a single scv out. So I just leave the pylon alone? even if there are 2 manner pylons?
have an scv mine next to the trapped scv hit return cargo on the trapped scv and wait for them to overlap mash rightclick on the trapped scv outside of the manner pylon you can try it with probes in a single player game, it's pretty easy once you get the hang of it
i think unless P is committing heavily to the pylon (proxy gate, 2gate, or cannons for example) you just ignore it until your marines can deal with it are you opening 11/11 with constant marines? if not imo you should just wall in
Sooo i opened up two factory cross positions on cb
fac fac, vult, then 2 machine shops. speed + mines, attacked when they finished at 6 or so vultures. Enemy terran opened one factory, vult then grabbed a cc, machine shop, factory, and by the time i attacked had enough vultures to win with a simply rally + scv repair.
The fucks the point of a two factory build if you can just out produce it casually with a safe build? Should I of scouted better and attacked 2 factory without shops?
On November 28 2017 07:08 Dazed. wrote: Sooo i opened up two factory cross positions on cb
fac fac, vult, then 2 machine shops. speed + mines, attacked when they finished at 6 or so vultures. Enemy terran opened one factory, vult then grabbed a cc, machine shop, factory, and by the time i attacked had enough vultures to win with a simply rally + scv repair.
The fucks the point of a two factory build if you can just out produce it casually with a safe build? Should I of scouted better and attacked 2 factory without shops?
Replay would always be helpful but.... just my 50 cents, would be interested in answers, too.
Luckily early timings tend to have a short window of opportunity in BW. Your 2 factory production advantage disappears as soon as he has 2 factories of himself, yes. Plus he has defenders advantage (mass repair, short reinforcement route) and better eco already/soon. So if you go for two shops before starting vulture production, obviously you play into his hands - unless you can do something magical with those upgrades, but what do mines and speedvultures help against... just vultures defending? That's why 2factory play in TvT generally involves tanks and early siege-mode.
I guess you could still do damage with a well-timed, sudden vulture attack if he's not careful or going fast drops, killing his vults and then going for some SCVs in the natural (if no or bad placed bunker) - or catch him with mines if he went tanks.
Apart from that: Yes, if you go 2 factory vult you have to use the small timing when you have 2-5 vults and he only 1-3, at least force bunkers/wall, establish map-control, get your own base(s) up.
For me that is the definition of a safe build, but I doubt it was so simple for him unless you missed your timing or he cut quite some scvs to get more factories up quicker.
On November 28 2017 09:38 HaFnium wrote: Has anyone got the link for the recent SCR game of reach winning against flash? I remember seeing it but really want to see it again.
On November 28 2017 09:38 HaFnium wrote: Has anyone got the link for the recent SCR game of reach winning against flash? I remember seeing it but really want to see it again.
goliath+tank is a natural reply if significantly behind in air, while vult+tank is more of early-mid game composition. Also goliath+tank+drop is decent on maps that allow to build a lot of turrets. Both are valid depending on the game stage and current situation.
EPT
