What to do in case where you and your opponent had equal amounts of well developed expansions(between 4-5 ) and equal limit army(170 +) and while massing from many gates you realize that part of his limit is 5-6 carriers already out and another 5-6 wraping in the stargates.Sometimes I build several stargates and start making scouts,sometimes I try to make carriers of my own,sometimes I try to go Mind Control while avoiding his carriers or holding them with Storm(this strat gave the best results ),but it looks like I lose this scenario every time.
My main race is terran and I play toss for fun ,thats why I ask more experienced PvP players for help:-))
Somehow with terran thanks to comsats its so much harder for my toss oppponents to surprise me with carriers and even they catch me offguard first goliaths + mass turrets works so much better than goons+cannons+storm

NonYold

United States2814 Posts

November 28 2004 21:42 GMT

if something like that happens, i pause the game and post on TL.net for help

actually, you could probably use observers more. they are harder to micro than a comsat but they get the job done. usually i'd prefer to remain with all ground units, but of course it depends on the map. having a group of 12 zealots or so to attack his expansions while he's out with the carriers is helpful also

BigBalls

United States5354 Posts

November 28 2004 21:43 GMT

arbiters/storm/goon

suicide your zealots at his expos, starting with the least defended

you wont really need them, you should have a few archons to hold off his zealots anyways

anyways, freeze his carriers when he groups them, if he doesnt group them, he really cant use them effectively. then put a ton of shit under it, and when they unfreeze, they are basically dead.

Beast_Bg

Bulgaria1623 Posts

November 28 2004 22:40 GMT

Make more carriers of course.

But seriously DAs are the best counter IMO.You gain ~800/500 from 1 mind control and the worst that can happen is to lose the dark archon for 250/200.Plus you can take care of every templar or arbiter he has.

karelen

Sweden2407 Posts

November 28 2004 23:54 GMT

imo they should lower the cost for DAs, would ensure more variety.

SCFraser

Canada1534 Posts

November 29 2004 00:26 GMT

What happens if u mind control when u have full psi?
and do stolen units retain upgrades?

NonYold

United States2814 Posts

November 29 2004 00:29 GMT

if you MC with full psi, you'll still get the unit and your psi will go like 206/200. you dont get the weapons/armor/shields upgrades, but you'll get the other upgrades (like +4 interceptor carrier capacity, upgraded speed/range, etc etc)

Malmis

Sweden1569 Posts

November 29 2004 00:30 GMT

On November 29 2004 08:54 karelen wrote:
imo they should lower the cost for DAs, would ensure more variety.

It would also make DT's better +_+

Legionnaire

Australia4515 Posts

November 29 2004 00:45 GMT

Mind Control is best.

Your main problem seems to be not realizing he is switching to carriers. Thus a failure at scouting, just spend a small amount on observers and have them searching all game. It will probably help your overall game anyway by seeing his movements and new exps.

Response

United States1938 Posts

November 29 2004 02:41 GMT

#10

i like arbiters tho the stasis is e-zer to cast then having to mc one @ a time freezing all there carriers then attacking expansions usually works for me....i think if mc would cost 100 i would use it but doing that would probably over power the DA so that might be a bad idea i dono i just think its e-zer to stasis

MaTRiX[SiN]

Sweden1282 Posts

November 29 2004 02:58 GMT

#11

what bigballs said...my games r usually over be4 any1 goes carrier but when it happens thats what i do..

xCx

Poland123 Posts

November 29 2004 02:59 GMT

#12

I like switching to Scouts/storms and then Carriers/storms but DA with mind control can be very usefull too.

koehli

Germany350 Posts

December 01 2004 00:13 GMT

#13

Mind Control not only works on 5-6 carriers, it gives you extra style points ;-) However it comes at the price of becoming immobile, you constantly have to babysit your DA's and use shuttles to get them on cliffs etc. Furthermore MC is a "reactive strat" that is it is good only if you scouted your opponent well in advance.

Most robust counter in my opinion is arbiters with stasis, + storms as you can effectively immobilize your opponents carrier fleet and even lowly below 200 APM players like us have a chance to pull it off

You shouldn't kill his carriers if you got less money than your opponent btw. FrozenArbiters (edit: FrozenCarriers of course

) are a total waste of supply and very annoying for a very long time :p

Stratwise arbiters easily integrate into a standard infantry build. You don't really have to have the carriers scouted, arbiters are totally good as a "preemptive strat" as they improve your infantry army no matter what his units are.

Monsen

Germany2548 Posts

December 01 2004 00:25 GMT

#14

MC Carrier = 1100/500

koehli

Germany350 Posts

December 01 2004 00:33 GMT

#15

On December 01 2004 09:25 Monsen wrote:
MC Carrier = 1100/500

you need some more DA's if you really want to battle a fleet. One arbiter is much cheaper and good vs pretty much any number, at least to keep you in game.

ahk-gosu

Korea (South)2099 Posts

December 01 2004 02:11 GMT

#16

hallucinations
mind control
storm

that an goons or scouts work very nicely.
arb is pretty decent. stasis works wonders.

oPtioNaLk

Korea (South)564 Posts

December 01 2004 09:32 GMT

#17

Some people are saying get arbiters but doesn't the tech take way too long? Maybe I'm just being a newb but I thought stargates weren't a standard part of non isle PvP.

BigBalls

United States5354 Posts

December 01 2004 10:52 GMT

#18

You should go arbs in every pvp when you can secure 3 gas. If you cant secure 3 gas and he has, you should lose anyways. If he cant secure 3 gas he cant carrier.

Liquid`Drone

Norway28900 Posts

December 01 2004 14:56 GMT

#19

arbiters and mind control
supplement with goon and storm

arbs take a while to get but so does a very large amount of carriers. (one you can't beat without arbiters)
if he surprises you with 8+ carriers in pvp that means you've done a horrible job scouting and deserve to lose anyway.
(because even if you don't notice his stargates for some reason, you shouldve noticed that he has 30+ ground units less than he should have. )

OneOther

United States10774 Posts

December 01 2004 15:04 GMT

#20

well, if you were unprepared, goon/storm would be the best answer. If you KNEW it, then the answer would be different. Since its high eco game, you would definitely have many high templs, right?

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