I think that replays are the key to getting better, as you see players like RRB who've only been playing 1v1 for a year(team player before that), and Midas who's only been playing for a few years. rA said in an interview that everytime he loses, he watches each replay twice, first time to see what he did wrong, and 2nd time keeping in mind all of his mistakes and possible ways to learn from them. Practice//Not being afraid to lose is probably even more important than replays though.

1sd2sd3sd

660 Posts

November 15 2004 07:43 GMT

#22

Op7 I agree and disagree. I disagree by saying only those who truely want to become better will become better. Now if indeed there are only a "few" people who want to become better play this game then your statement is 100% correct, however I believe that for a game to survive this long more than a "few" people have wanted to become better.

rednob

Korea (South)210 Posts

November 15 2004 07:48 GMT

#23

I also disagree with 7op's advice. While it is true that every one has their limits, you can not ever be sure where yours are. You should always struggle as long as you have the will remaining!

7op

Canada654 Posts

November 15 2004 08:27 GMT

#24

But in the end you will be deceived, because you'll realize that you'll never be good enough and you'll always be seen as a newb by some better players. You have to play constantly, but in the end there is no reward except satisfaction of being good at a game and hopefully be at the same level with the pros

USMCgamer

Korea (South)255 Posts

November 15 2004 08:50 GMT

#25

I didn't take the time to read everyones posts but I skimmed through them. The advice of watching progamers replays is really good. Especially Oromes advice about making sure you understand why they do what they do and trying to draw conclusions. Strategy is only part of the game though, experience plays a very large factor, as does your overall speed and multitasking ability. Every game you play focus on doing what you need to do as quickly as possible and spend any extra time you have on something productive- you should never have "dead time". This is very important because even if you have decent strategy, a faster player with less strategic knowledge can often overcome you.

Also, definately practice on servers where you will get your ass kicked a lot. It feels good to win but you are able to learn more from your losses. (I am guilty of public b.net 1v1 templing on US just bc I know the map so well and know I can usually stomp the competition lol) That reminds me, PLAY MAPS OTHER THAN LT. Most experienced BW players know that map like the back of their hand. I'm not going to get into what "knowing a map" is but most of you know. Learning to be able to adapt your style of play to different maps will help your overall strategic knowledge of the game.

As far as 7ops post goes, no - you probably will never get the chance to be on par with pro gamers. Oh well, they get paid to do it and practice many many hours each day. Being able to play at a decently high level of BW is fun. (I am only NGi 1050-1100 lol) Don't set your expectations too high for yourself but the better you get the more intense the game gets. (at least for me) Good luck :-)

j-man

United States153 Posts

November 15 2004 09:07 GMT

#26

I think the general process that everybody goes thru is similar. After you play a bunch of games, you will be able to answer your own questions as to what you need to work on. You'll start to just realize what you need to practice more, you may go thru many breakthrough periods where you learn something new and seem unstoppable, but there will always be more goals to set and conquer. For example, right now I know i need to work on my macro and on my tvp. And the only way to know these things is by playing.

If you want to know what I think the most important of all the areas is, i'd have to say strategy. This is a strategy game and good players use strategy to win. This has been said by other people many times before, but right now it seems like there is a whole lot of fast players, high apm, and so forth that have a pretty noob strategical game. APM means nothing so long as you feel you have a good reaction time and good control over your units. There are plenty of gosu players out there that have relatively low apms so this is the proof that you dont need to be a 300-400 apm hotkey smasher to be good.

Muhweli

Finland5328 Posts

November 15 2004 09:19 GMT

#27

On November 15 2004 12:33 Orome wrote:

Show nested quote +

That's a fucking lot to do, even if it doesn't look like it. And of course it's only the approach to how you should try to improve. The most important thing is still practice.

Silly he can do that from one game! That's not a lot! (j/k)

iNCuBuS_

United States905 Posts

November 15 2004 11:02 GMT

#28

Thanks for motivational advice 7op :/
Ok thanks guys Ill start putting this advice to good use

Oxygen

Canada3581 Posts

November 15 2004 11:13 GMT

#29

I use this technique to improve:

Play games with people better than you, that beat you consistently 70+% of the time (7/10 games), but that you can still beat (3/10 games).

Now, play a few games with each of them while they're willing. Save at important parts of the game. I.E. before you attack. After you attack. After you pull off good micro. After you expand, before you expand, before/after you've made your tech choice. If all else fails, every 2 minutes.

Scouting doesn't matter. Scout every minute to know what your opponent is up to. So, a surprise attack shouldn't work all that well. If you lose, start back from the place you THINK is the turn of the game (you should be winning the game the entire time. If not, go back and start again. Have your friends give you some space. If they are winning because of X strategy or Y moves, go back and have them make X strategy or Y moves again, and counter differently. See what works and what doesn't, first hand).

This works for me. I've tried it only a few times but the few times it has helped me IMMENSELY. 20 games like this and you are 10 x better.

Good luck.

karelen

Sweden2407 Posts

November 15 2004 11:17 GMT

#30

wax on, wax off...

Allko

China297 Posts

November 15 2004 12:45 GMT

#31

wow i learns so much from you
i think watch replays can improve a little
practice is more useful

NeverTheEndlessWiz

Singapore827 Posts

November 15 2004 12:52 GMT

#32

1-Macro
2-Builds
3-Strategy
4-Micro

y?

if you can't macro well at all, you won't be able to even do the build correctly.

if you can't even do the build at all, you won't be able to start to understand the strategy of the build

if you don't understand the strategy, you won't know what to and how to micro

The Wiz has spoken =P

Jansports

United States80 Posts

November 15 2004 13:26 GMT

#33

On November 15 2004 20:13 Oxygen wrote:
I use this technique to improve:

Play games with people better than you, that beat you consistently 70+% of the time (7/10 games), but that you can still beat (3/10 games).

Now, play a few games with each of them while they're willing. Save at important parts of the game. I.E. before you attack. After you attack. After you pull off good micro. After you expand, before you expand, before/after you've made your tech choice. If all else fails, every 2 minutes.

Scouting doesn't matter. Scout every minute to know what your opponent is up to. So, a surprise attack shouldn't work all that well. If you lose, start back from the place you THINK is the turn of the game (you should be winning the game the entire time. If not, go back and start again. Have your friends give you some space. If they are winning because of X strategy or Y moves, go back and have them make X strategy or Y moves again, and counter differently. See what works and what doesn't, first hand).

This works for me. I've tried it only a few times but the few times it has helped me IMMENSELY. 20 games like this and you are 10 x better.

Good luck.

this is an extremly good learning tool, but also difficult to pull off as it almost requires some kind of connection to better players who are willing to be patient with your learning.

I Myself have recently(few days) Begun learning terran and I find my Execution to be suffering Horribly! learnd protoss and then switched, ouch mistake on my part.

Maybe its just me but theres something about the almost invisible Supply Depots, With Pylons I can see the blue field and it is good! with Depots I always fall behind somehow =/

Practice is essential, I rarely ever get to play against high skill opponents (I cannot find any) which is allright my Terran is very new and weak I doubt I could win. So I over stressed learning theory and now I find myself frustrated that I can know so much but do so little!

Try to keep a good balance between the two and it will work out

LOcDowN

United States1015 Posts

November 15 2004 15:21 GMT

#34

You don't need to be good. You need to understand. The more you understand, the more enjoyment you'll get when playing Starcraft. Winning means nothing. My opinion ofcourse.

gulii

Sweden2795 Posts

November 15 2004 20:14 GMT

#35

This old post is unavailable due to an encoding issue. Please contact an admin if you would like this post restored for historical reasons.

TheGoliath

United States682 Posts

November 15 2004 20:29 GMT

#36

if you cannot scout well, macro well, and micro well, no other skill will matter, so start with them first

[ErOs]~InCoGniTo

Italy513 Posts

November 15 2004 22:49 GMT

#37

not really much to getting better, just practise... your looking for some super fast way to magically get better, it wont happen... work your way up the chain like everyone else has.

FroST(TE)

United States909 Posts

November 16 2004 02:20 GMT

#38

understanding what you're doing what you're doing helps the most i think :o

Casper...

Liberia4948 Posts

November 16 2004 03:19 GMT

#39

if i suck at golf, do i try to play like tiger woods?
no
i try to play how my instructor teaches
step by step
incremental improvement

USMCgamer

Korea (South)255 Posts

November 16 2004 09:16 GMT

#40

Oxygen, that is a pretty baddass idea. I've never heard of doing that but I am sure that could help one hone their strategic thinking capabilities quite a bit...