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Forum Index > Brood War Strategy
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pheered.user
Profile Joined March 2003
United States2603 Posts
July 28 2004 14:46 GMT
#21
Rugbug i dont think you undertand they harass while getting min only and having 20 siege tansk sieged and harrass some more while building a huge army with 2/2 ups and i get anally raped
Looking for Skilled players to join an Active, Involved clan. PM Me for Details.
pheered.user
Profile Joined March 2003
United States2603 Posts
July 28 2004 14:46 GMT
#22
On July 28 2004 23:36 Rt-S.FakeSteve wrote:
When i play terran i slow push

its fun


to beat turtle faggot terran you either have to be better overall or abuse the godliness of carriers.

i play pvt vs turtlers like a countdown. I have so much time before the terran can overwhelm me on land. I need to be set up and ready to go with game-ending units like carriers or arbiters before this time runs out. Harassing him buys me more time. Doing heavy damage to his first surge buys me more time.

If you know he wont come out of his base, devote all your resources to expansion and harass protection. You wont be going on the offense for a bit, so take the time to secure your position. Part of securing your position is throwing up 3-4 stargates and a fleet beacon

if you're having trouble with that 200/200 army, bring like 6 templar along with you on your next crusade. Keep obs around his base, and whatever troops you have in position (When they're not preventing harass). when you see him moving out, move in! tanks and vultures that are bunched up (like they are when they're exiting a base..!) are easy to storm.

What i try to do is cover his shit in storm, then back off so I don't lose TOO much.

more often than not what will happen from here is you will weaken his push (a blanket of storm does ALOT of damage, and near-death tanks don't fight well), buying you a liiiiittle more time.

if you luck out, and you stop his push dead (not likely, but hey it can happen), you have a huge advantage. as soon as it looks like your troops are fucked, back off. Carriers should be on the way, and you'll have a much easier time from there on

You won't win a land battle vs a turtle terran unless your micro is far superior to his push abilities, assuming you both have similar macro.


On another note, keep an eye on his base! if you see somewhere you can sneak a shuttle with two templar in, do it! scv loss is devastating to turtle terrans, and will buy you more time.


Nice sexy man~
Looking for Skilled players to join an Active, Involved clan. PM Me for Details.
FakeSteve[TPR]
Profile Blog Joined July 2003
Valhalla18444 Posts
July 28 2004 14:48 GMT
#23
Harass isn't completely necessary, buuut..

ok, here's my thought: Terran is trying to accomplish a goal.

Turtle terran's goal? Be impervious to attack until he is ready to roll over the protoss with superior forces.

What's my game plan? Keep my opponent from achieving his objective.

By sitting around letting him macro, I'm doing what he wants. I'm allowing him to follow his game plan to a tee.

This is not good. How do I fix it? How do I kill a terran i can't directly assault? Damage his ability to achieve his goal. Easiest way to do that vs a turtle terran? Killing scv's.
Moderatormy tatsu loops r fuckin nice
FakeSteve[TPR]
Profile Blog Joined July 2003
Valhalla18444 Posts
July 28 2004 14:49 GMT
#24
also the fact that clearskies here isn't playing against iloveoov is very prominent in my mind.

Terrans who aren't pros have weaknesses. exploit 'em.
Moderatormy tatsu loops r fuckin nice
pheered.user
Profile Joined March 2003
United States2603 Posts
July 28 2004 14:54 GMT
#25
fakesteve i've played oov 3-0'ed him on bloodbath

Looking for Skilled players to join an Active, Involved clan. PM Me for Details.
Casper...
Profile Joined October 2002
Liberia4948 Posts
July 28 2004 14:54 GMT
#26
reaver rush, expand, carriers
JAM THE FUCKER!
FakeSteve[TPR]
Profile Blog Joined July 2003
Valhalla18444 Posts
July 28 2004 14:55 GMT
#27
if only blood bath was an OGN map
Moderatormy tatsu loops r fuckin nice
FakeSteve[TPR]
Profile Blog Joined July 2003
Valhalla18444 Posts
July 28 2004 14:56 GMT
#28
On July 28 2004 23:54 Casper... wrote:
reaver rush, expand, carriers


exactly what I've said

harass, expo, carriers

dt/templardrop/reaver all effective, all classified as "harass"
Moderatormy tatsu loops r fuckin nice
pheered.user
Profile Joined March 2003
United States2603 Posts
July 28 2004 14:57 GMT
#29
you know ive told people before i wish that bloodbath was in a pro league or some other 64x64 map that would be so sweet and interesting :D
Looking for Skilled players to join an Active, Involved clan. PM Me for Details.
RuGbUg
Profile Joined June 2003
United States2347 Posts
July 28 2004 17:16 GMT
#30
why do you even think harass is necessary? expo yourself, and DONT die to harass. get 3 stargates and start pummeling his min-only with ground.
anguish: its like that time i asked my bestfriend who happened to be black if his dick was bigger than mine anguish: he got angry anguish: and told me i was racist and gay
RuGbUg
Profile Joined June 2003
United States2347 Posts
July 28 2004 17:17 GMT
#31
On July 28 2004 23:46 PheeRed.User wrote:
Rugbug i dont think you undertand they harass while getting min only and having 20 siege tansk sieged and harrass some more while building a huge army with 2/2 ups and i get anally raped
i guess you're right, pvt is impossible because terrans have reached a level of perfection. why the fuck do you think you'll live vs harass if you do harass yourself, but you won't live vs harass if thats all you concentrate on?
anguish: its like that time i asked my bestfriend who happened to be black if his dick was bigger than mine anguish: he got angry anguish: and told me i was racist and gay
ChApFoU
Profile Blog Joined July 2004
France2987 Posts
July 28 2004 17:32 GMT
#32
Storm + big flank carriers. I remember NaDa using that strat all the time o his wsl reps ^^
"I honestly think that whoever invented toilet paper in a genius" Kang Min
jtan
Profile Blog Joined April 2003
Sweden5891 Posts
July 28 2004 17:47 GMT
#33
...Nada won vs 46 gates ground-only
Enter a Uh
SpiriT-DemoN-
Profile Joined January 2003
United States684 Posts
July 28 2004 20:49 GMT
#34
fast tanks is still very strong if u ask me.. dual fact is still a major build its just that toss can really take down ground if it uses a good innovative harass with reaver
An eye for an eye only makes the whole world blind - Gandhi
itzme_petey
Profile Blog Joined February 2004
United States1400 Posts
July 28 2004 21:18 GMT
#35
Boo Hoo tough shit. Thats how a PvT is played. He turtles and the fight for the expos begin. You hold, you will win. You get lazy and let him rub his dick all over you. GG quit SC.
"Last night, I played a game.. as I recall it was a strategy game.. Peeked around and what did I see, a girl playing starcraft better than me.. and I jizzed in my pants.."
suffeli *
Profile Blog Joined October 2002
Finland772 Posts
July 28 2004 21:40 GMT
#36
Watch some old Nazguls PvT replays and copy
koehli
Profile Joined January 2004
Germany350 Posts
July 28 2004 21:42 GMT
#37
On July 28 2004 23:48 Rt-S.FakeSteve wrote:
Harass isn't completely necessary, buuut..

ok, here's my thought: Terran is trying to accomplish a goal.

Turtle terran's goal? Be impervious to attack until he is ready to roll over the protoss with superior forces.

What's my game plan? Keep my opponent from achieving his objective.

By sitting around letting him macro, I'm doing what he wants. I'm allowing him to follow his game plan to a tee.

This is not good. How do I fix it? How do I kill a terran i can't directly assault? Damage his ability to achieve his goal. Easiest way to do that vs a turtle terran? Killing scv's.


hmmm, fakesteve your starting rationales are correct. Terran turtles to have an easily defendable stance that allows him to mass till 2/2 monsterarmy and juggernaut over the toss. I don't think your harass is really a good answer though. Terran built his position so that it's easy to defend. Barracks landed on cliff so you cant land in storm position, turrets in stormdrop path, tanks in siege, some spidermines etc. Trying to harass requires alot of your attention so your macro will be worse than it could be. Also it most often will loose you more than it gains. You're playing right as the terran wants you to play with no real perspective.

I'd rather go with the old Chinese proverb: "One neighbor builds a fence, two neighbors enjoy it." He built defences so he's safe to build up, but so are you with the additional bonus of not having those static defences so you got a lead in the exponential growth curve :-] Your only problem will be the 200 supply problem. At some point your maxed out at 200 supply and cant't grow any more. And 200 supply protoss ground units get completely smoked vs 180 supply terran ground units.

You should have enough money to swith to carriers or add arbiters, so basically playing a turtling terran is an exercise of macro.
You go to war with the Army you have, not the Army you might want or wish to have at a later time.
Arbiter[frolix]
Profile Joined January 2004
United Kingdom2674 Posts
July 28 2004 21:49 GMT
#38
On July 28 2004 23:13 RuGbUg wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 28 2004 20:22 Refrain[FriZ] wrote:
beat it with carriers + arbit + storm. minimize harass.
arbiter is a waste. i never get it.


We are vigilant.
nortydog
Profile Joined December 2003
Australia3067 Posts
July 28 2004 21:53 GMT
#39
On July 29 2004 06:42 koehli wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 28 2004 23:48 Rt-S.FakeSteve wrote:
Harass isn't completely necessary, buuut..

ok, here's my thought: Terran is trying to accomplish a goal.

Turtle terran's goal? Be impervious to attack until he is ready to roll over the protoss with superior forces.

What's my game plan? Keep my opponent from achieving his objective.

By sitting around letting him macro, I'm doing what he wants. I'm allowing him to follow his game plan to a tee.

This is not good. How do I fix it? How do I kill a terran i can't directly assault? Damage his ability to achieve his goal. Easiest way to do that vs a turtle terran? Killing scv's.


hmmm, fakesteve your starting rationales are correct. Terran turtles to have an easily defendable stance that allows him to mass till 2/2 monsterarmy and juggernaut over the toss. I don't think your harass is really a good answer though. Terran built his position so that it's easy to defend. Barracks landed on cliff so you cant land in storm position, turrets in stormdrop path, tanks in siege, some spidermines etc. Trying to harass requires alot of your attention so your macro will be worse than it could be. Also it most often will loose you more than it gains. You're playing right as the terran wants you to play with no real perspective.

I'd rather go with the old Chinese proverb: "One neighbor builds a fence, two neighbors enjoy it." He built defences so he's safe to build up, but so are you with the additional bonus of not having those static defences so you got a lead in the exponential growth curve :-] Your only problem will be the 200 supply problem. At some point your maxed out at 200 supply and cant't grow any more. And 200 supply protoss ground units get completely smoked vs 180 supply terran ground units.

You should have enough money to swith to carriers or add arbiters, so basically playing a turtling terran is an exercise of macro.
Hmm nice way to look at it, its true that you need to put alot of focus on microing the harass and it does hurt your macro, about 50% of the time vs decent terran players the money I put into harass (800min + 800/600gas) goes to waste because of siege/rax/turrets
NoCleanFeed.com
NeverTheEndlessWiz
Profile Joined November 2003
Singapore827 Posts
Last Edited: 2004-07-28 22:21:05
July 28 2004 22:08 GMT
#40
On July 29 2004 06:53 NoRTyDoG wrote:
............Hmm nice way to look at it, its true that you need to put alot of focus on microing the harass and it does hurt your macro, about 50% of the time vs decent terran players the money I put into harass (800min + 800/600gas) goes to waste because of siege/rax/turrets


the pt of harass is to hit him at the back when he's trying to push up so that the harass can buy u time while he deals with it. if the terran defends vs harass that means he's tying up units to defend and will have less units to push up front. to simply put it, start to harass when he wants to come out. if he doesn't, wait.

imagine this: he comes out with his 180/200 army vs ur 200/200. u move ur troops back to suck the terran push in to buy time and start to harass. at this pt he wants to get more units to support to the push but can't coz the SCVs died OR he's trying to use those units to defend ur harass and can't continue pushing more. either way, all these buy u time to get arbiters/carriers/more expos

besides, toss doesn't really have any real effective harass other than HT storm drops while terran can vult and tank drops. it does make sense to do the same back to him to equal things out.

also remember that there is no other way for terran to stop the 2 HTs once the 2 storms are cast, cept for running scvs away. all the scvs will die instantly. compare this to a 2 tank drop. 2 tank drops can't kill ALL the probes at an expo as fast as a 2 HT storm drop, therefore ur probes will have time to run. not to mention, 2 tank drops are actually more expensive than 2 HT drops!

cheap, fast, effective

y not abuse it!?
Retired Brood War player / WCG SG Top 8 for 2002, 2003, 2004, retired, then made minor comeback to Top 8 at 2008. 2009 = bleh xD
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