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Broodwar Cheese? - Page 2

Forum Index > Brood War Strategy
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Pokebunny
Profile Blog Joined June 2008
United States10654 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-10-06 20:09:50
October 06 2010 20:09 GMT
#21
TvZ: 8rax -> vulture -> 2port wraith. it will wreck any bad zerg if you have any semblance of micro. another one i like is the Stylish roflstrat. BBS is decent too.
TvT: BBS, or 6rax proxy -> 2port
TvP: Stylish roflstrat actually works in tvp too, else try a joyo rush with a lot of scvs if you want it to be an allin. bbs is pretty bad in tvp but two early rax with ~10-12 scvs and rallied marines does wonders.

ZvT: 4pool, 9pool speed -> 1 hatch lurker
ZvP: 4/5/6pool, 2 hatch lurker drop, 2/3 hatch hydra/ling allin
ZvZ: 4pool. anything else isn't cheese really

PvT: a million cheeses that are all strong. DT rush, proxy gates inbase, manner proxy gates, proxy reaver, bulldog, speedzeal timing attack, ... etc
PvP: proxy gates/dt rush
PvZ: proxy gates, cannon rush expo -> standard
Semipro Terran player | Pokebunny#1710 | twitter.com/Pokebunny | twitch.tv/Pokebunny | facebook.com/PokebunnySC
Impervious
Profile Blog Joined March 2009
Canada4199 Posts
October 06 2010 21:01 GMT
#22
9 hatch isn't always a cheesy opening though..... I had great success using it as an anti-cheese build rather than a cheese build.....

But, damn, using the cheesy 9 hatch opening and getting 18 speedlings that fast is pretty freaking powerful.
~ \(ˌ)im-ˈpər-vē-əs\ : not capable of being damaged or harmed.
Claytor656
Profile Joined April 2010
United States15 Posts
October 06 2010 22:08 GMT
#23
There was a topic a while back that Random_Korean started in which he just took ideas and ran with it. I love things like this, and last post on the back page that's a nice build and all but he said he was doing this for cheese. You came off condescending as all hell over something like a lurker drop build. I don't know if that was the intention, but nevertheless.

I don't understand why so many times someone is willing to go beyond the box and just have some fun and often it turns into telling him/her why and how NOT to do that.

Then again, you're already running into the problem that if it's early pressure or even just something that needs to be scouted against in order to defend, half the time someone will say cheese. I'm of the opinion that at high level play, cheese is a word that shouldn't even be used. A build is a build is a build is a build. Skill takes over after a certain point and if you can win with something that shouldn't necessarily, then you deserve every bit of credit for playing at optimal level.

That being said...
Good luck with this TC!
You should make replays of each one so we can check them out!

krndandaman
Profile Joined August 2009
Mozambique16569 Posts
October 07 2010 08:29 GMT
#24
--- Nuked ---
Suc
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
Australia1569 Posts
October 07 2010 11:17 GMT
#25
If you play on destination as Z, you can send out one of your first four drones and go straight to the opponent's base, hug the wall and then 9 hatch in the area furthest away from their CC/Nexus/Hatch. Proceed to sunken his base :D
icotuza
Profile Joined January 2010
Bulgaria14 Posts
October 07 2010 13:24 GMT
#26
The best and easiest cheese TvP is 1 base MM and 2-3 tanks with siege mode.Opening is standart but after factory u make academy and don't stop make marines.When u have 2-3 tanks with 8-12 marines and 2-3 medics wiht stim and siege,then push him and this is gg(i was beaten with this strategy only with good micro dark rush).I'm C- terran and i beat a lot of B- B and B+ protoss players
Steelflight-Rx
Profile Blog Joined July 2007
United States1389 Posts
October 07 2010 17:38 GMT
#27
Theres a legend of someone who made it to B- only using BBS build in every match up
yubee wrote: you know? it's a great night you should all smile no matter what harddships, because grass grows and the sky is blue and it's a good life.
Ocular
Profile Joined August 2010
Canada141 Posts
October 07 2010 17:50 GMT
#28
On October 06 2010 12:53 SubtleArt wrote:
A D+ player who doesn't know any cheeses? Odd. Either way:

3 hatch hydra bust ZvP
1 hatch lurker ZvT
2 hatch lurker drop ZvP / ZvT
gas steal --> reaver --> elevator (altho this requires some sick micro to pull off...watch snow vs lomo on matchpoint) PvT
1 Base 4 gate all in PvT
2 Base carrier PvT
10/15 PvT on rampless maps
BBS TvZ
Bunker rush TvZ
2 Proxy facts TvZ / TvP
3 fact (usually 1 proxied) TvP
Sparks Rush TvZ
Ay-u-mi TvZ
3 port wraith w/ cloak TvT


3 port wraith? Its 2 port wraith. You don't have enough gas to 3port. And by the time you do have enough gas for 3port any terran who loses to that is just plain sad.
In the land of make believe you are mine, in the land of make believe I'm doing fine...
SubtleArt
Profile Blog Joined January 2010
2710 Posts
October 07 2010 20:19 GMT
#29
On October 08 2010 02:50 Ocular wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 06 2010 12:53 SubtleArt wrote:
A D+ player who doesn't know any cheeses? Odd. Either way:

3 hatch hydra bust ZvP
1 hatch lurker ZvT
2 hatch lurker drop ZvP / ZvT
gas steal --> reaver --> elevator (altho this requires some sick micro to pull off...watch snow vs lomo on matchpoint) PvT
1 Base 4 gate all in PvT
2 Base carrier PvT
10/15 PvT on rampless maps
BBS TvZ
Bunker rush TvZ
2 Proxy facts TvZ / TvP
3 fact (usually 1 proxied) TvP
Sparks Rush TvZ
Ay-u-mi TvZ
3 port wraith w/ cloak TvT


3 port wraith? Its 2 port wraith. You don't have enough gas to 3port. And by the time you do have enough gas for 3port any terran who loses to that is just plain sad.


2 Port isn't really a cheese. 3 port (generally 1 port then proxy 2 or 2 port proxy 1) is all-in, and yes if you delay siege mode and let wraiths take priority over constant tank production off your 1 factory then it's possible to pull off.
Morrow on ZvP: "I'm not very confident in general vs Protoss because of the imbalance (Yes its imbalanced, get over it)."
SubtleArt
Profile Blog Joined January 2010
2710 Posts
October 07 2010 20:21 GMT
#30
On October 07 2010 17:29 krndandaman wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 07 2010 00:07 SubtleArt wrote:
On October 06 2010 13:30 Carnac wrote:
On October 06 2010 12:53 SubtleArt wrote:
A D+ player who doesn't know any cheeses? Odd. Either way:

3 hatch hydra bust ZvP
1 hatch lurker ZvT
2 hatch lurker drop ZvP / ZvT
gas steal --> reaver --> elevator (altho this requires some sick micro to pull off...watch snow vs lomo on matchpoint) PvT
1 Base 4 gate all in PvT
2 Base carrier PvT
10/15 PvT on rampless maps
BBS TvZ
Bunker rush TvZ
2 Proxy facts TvZ / TvP
3 fact (usually 1 proxied) TvP
Sparks Rush TvZ
Ay-u-mi TvZ
3 port wraith w/ cloak TvT

this is a joke. right?

Why would it be?


Some of the builds there are not cheeses.

Anyways, i feel like the best cheeses are the non-generic ones. People have seen cheese before and its easy to react ifbits the generic cheese. Here are some builds (not all are cheese) that i sometimes use for quick wins.

-forge fe into no stargate +1 zeal rush. The catch is, you can only do this by hiding your gate count from ovies. Add 2nd gate before core and get 3/4 th gate asap. You should have at the very least 16zealots with rallied gates when speed/+1 kicks in. even muta wont stop your unstoppqble ground force. Ive beaten people 3ranks higher with this when i hid it well.
-mondragons overpool speed ling runby. Its amazing how good this shit still is. It will rape balls ez up to c level.
-forge fe into 2nd gate before gas. Move out at 5zeal. Standard timing to apply pressure is 3zeal off 1gate and will catch zergs skimping on lings offguard. A former korean progamer showed me this cheesy build.
-2fac joyo. Will rape many protosses. Up to c- level you will probably win even if its scouted. Shits funny.
-pvp 4gate goon. Autowin vs any non dt build or late/poorly microed reaver.
-pvt vs siege expand. 4gate speedlots. Showing citadel then killing scv is a bonus as terran builds acad/turret.
-tvp you go fd and if you see toss went for fe too go straight for 3fac before detection while cutting scv and gogo for timing with bunker. Most tosses go obs after fe vs fd. Sometimes its reaver or dt drop and u insta lose though: /
-zvt 2hatch lurk into defiler rush. if terran plays way too defensive you can swarm into nat for the gg. Make minimal lurkers/lings in beginning and trick opponent into making mass defense.
Yeah..thats all i got for now. 100% tested and proven on my smurf accounts!


These are actually really clever. I've done the FE --> 2 gate zealot thing and the 2 hatch lurker --> defiler rush with some success. Watch Calm vs Sea on I think (probably not) Holy World, where calm executes the tactic perfectly with the added twist of faking 2 hatch mutas.
Morrow on ZvP: "I'm not very confident in general vs Protoss because of the imbalance (Yes its imbalanced, get over it)."
saltywet
Profile Blog Joined August 2009
Hong Kong1316 Posts
October 07 2010 21:35 GMT
#31
i've beaten some c/c+ protoss players last season by going 9 pool speed, mass zerglings, block ramp with initial 6 zerglings while building up 12 zerglings in my base, once i have 18 zerglings rally both hatcheries to protoss base and kill zealot and 2 cannons with 18 speedlings
Leath
Profile Blog Joined July 2006
Canada1724 Posts
October 08 2010 03:00 GMT
#32
i suppose bbs with scv mixed would be really strong.
Same goes for 9/9 gate protoss with a substantial amount of probes.
http://www.kongregate.com/?referrer=Sagess
theslayer922
Profile Blog Joined April 2009
Canada304 Posts
October 08 2010 09:22 GMT
#33
proxy 2 gate zeal >.<
In the Donger I Trust
ReketSomething
Profile Blog Joined November 2008
United States6012 Posts
October 08 2010 09:38 GMT
#34
Choose the map outsider, then play only ZvT and 5 pool everygame. Get the timing so that at a certain point in time you can scout with 2 drones and if you see them send both drones to help harass the building scv.
Jaedong :3
DarkSaieden
Profile Blog Joined July 2008
South Africa254 Posts
October 08 2010 14:58 GMT
#35
Early cheese in zvz is is the weakest of all matchups, even 4 pool will only really beat a hatch first, so any d+ should beat it. Speedling all ins (read pool/spire snipe) work well if you opponent can't count drones though.
djcube
Profile Blog Joined July 2009
United States985 Posts
October 09 2010 04:15 GMT
#36
PvT - Double proxy robo. 2 reavers with shuttle. I don't know the exact build order that will get you the fastest possible double reavers with shuttle. It's pretty damn susceptible to an FD push and blocking ramp with a zeal is probably imperative.

Wish I remembered more about the build, but I first saw it on Shauni's stream long ago.
mia-X17
Profile Joined May 2010
23 Posts
October 15 2010 18:41 GMT
#37
On October 07 2010 20:17 Suc wrote:
If you play on destination as Z, you can send out one of your first four drones and go straight to the opponent's base, hug the wall and then 9 hatch in the area furthest away from their CC/Nexus/Hatch. Proceed to sunken his base :D


anyone half smart scouts their whole base and even their 3rd for proxies on desti
Chaos
Profile Joined July 2009
United States772 Posts
October 15 2010 20:56 GMT
#38
On October 16 2010 03:41 mia-X17 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 07 2010 20:17 Suc wrote:
If you play on destination as Z, you can send out one of your first four drones and go straight to the opponent's base, hug the wall and then 9 hatch in the area furthest away from their CC/Nexus/Hatch. Proceed to sunken his base :D


anyone half smart scouts their whole base and even their 3rd for proxies on desti


It's really annoying hearing this all the time because its obviously not true. Sure good players are good at scouting but it doesn't automatically mean they are going to scout a proxy every time. On Desti most people do scout the entire main at this point but you would be surprised how often high rank players don't.
FruitMarket
JSH
Profile Blog Joined July 2009
United States4109 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-10-15 21:12:33
October 15 2010 21:10 GMT
#39
Proxy in base hatch

awesome stuff

edit:
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=146071
"It's called a miracle because it doesn't happen" - Just like my chances of reaching C- on ICCUP
Nydus Wurm
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
United States42 Posts
October 15 2010 23:07 GMT
#40
Here's one I pulled off on Destination a while back: Triple proxy hatch.

Basically, I feigned a 9pool ling all in, but didn't actually make lings right away. Instead, I saved up 900 minerals and made three hatches on the high ground overlooking his base. I then followed that with some sunkens, and just started pumping lings at the proxy. I pushed the sunkens forward so they were hitting his pylons and he couldn't get cannons in range of my proxy. Then I just harassed with lings, expoed, and got Mutas and won.

I'll try to find the replay and put it up. It was rather epic.
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