EPT**yes i saw the oystein fpvod of 12 hatch stopping proxy gates but is that really viable? it seems a toss with sick micro will destroy your 12 hatch as he will deny sunken placement ect. setting u back
zerg 12 hatch/overpool risk/benifit?
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Xma
United States147 Posts
**yes i saw the oystein fpvod of 12 hatch stopping proxy gates but is that really viable? it seems a toss with sick micro will destroy your 12 hatch as he will deny sunken placement ect. setting u back | ||
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Lightwip
United States5497 Posts
12 hatch can defend proxy gates well enough as long as you use your lings to delay zealots and drones to protect sunkens. That's particularly convenient considering it's an economic choice. You're only really screwed if you go for 3 hatch before pool. Overpool/9 pool give you some map control, but 12 hatch gives you economy earlier. Your choice. | ||
Empyrean
16985 Posts
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seRapH
United States9756 Posts
ZvP is one of my worst matchups so i just won't comment... | ||
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Xma
United States147 Posts
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seRapH
United States9756 Posts
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FyRe_DragOn
Canada2056 Posts
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Xma
United States147 Posts
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Timangi99
Sweden73 Posts
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micro7295
United States68 Posts
note: cheesing bots isnt as fun or exciting as ud like. neither is distracting idiot workers with 1 probe. they dont change  lol. works every timean early pool is generally not for an early contain. thats like the backup plan if ur cheese went horribly wrong. ur gonna get ur zerglings in there for a lil harassment to destroy some of their eco (to make up for urs) and ur gonna micro em and keep em in there for as long as possible . keep distracing them. vs terran, u can generally get 6 in b4 they make too many marines and u can usually cheese them very nicely once marines r dead (if theyre pretty good, theyll have walled off and had a few marines by the time u get there :p and then ur in trouble) | ||
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TheMute
United States458 Posts
For ZvP, 12 hatch is optimal vs 2 gate but bad vs proxy gates. Vs 2 gate get a sunken at nat right away. Proxy gates can be hard to deal with because lings don't come in time for first zeal. Personally, I don't like 12 hatch ZvP because P usually FEs and skips cannons and gets Nexus first. I like to force cannons so I go Overpool or Overpool speed. On 4p maps, P might still put down 2 cannons first to be safe when you 12 hatch. Or if you 12 hatch ZvP, make sure to block his nexus with your scouting drone like they always do to us! | ||
ArvickHero
10387 Posts
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O-ops
United States4236 Posts
On August 15 2010 04:46 ArvickHero wrote: vT if you decide to go for a 9 pool, then you should just go 9 pool burrow With all the idiots that 14cc these days 9 pool is viable  | ||
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Chaos
United States772 Posts
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Severedevil
United States4838 Posts
Against one-base plays: 12 Hatch Against defensible FEs: 12 Hatch or Overpool Against economic cheese: Overpool Overpool can generally delay an FE enough to make back the cost. | ||
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n.DieJokes
United States3443 Posts
On August 15 2010 12:40 Oystein wrote: On most 3\4 player maps 12hatch is perfectly fine as long as you scout correctly with your first overlord to be able to change into an overpool if you see a probe, so you avoid having to go the trash 12pool. Personally I like to scout with a drone slightly before I expo or at the same time, going straight for the center looking for proxies first before I go regular scouting for his main. The advantages for 12hatch is that you get obviously a better econ, at the cost of losing an overlord or 2 more vs his first sairs if he goes nexus, gate before cannons compared to an overpool. Also once you get comfortable defending vs 2gates and proxies, you will have a way better build vs non proxied 2gates and 1gate tech builds than the overpool. With an overpool you don`t really force cannons before nex either, since most good Ps will either do a slight probecut at 12\13 getting that nex up before they start cannons or pylon block you while trying to deny you from planting your first hatch while cannoning up at home. Of course if they do this their gate will be a bit later, so their tech will be delayed but their econ will still be good. In the end its kinda just up to your own preferance what build to use, 12hatch will give you a better economy and versatility while overpool gives you more safety and offers possibly aggressive plays like doing a lingrunby. Knowing how to play both builds are your best choice instead of trying to only learn one. | ||
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Tazza
Korea (South)1678 Posts
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Frigo
Hungary1023 Posts
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Papvin
Denmark610 Posts
Against Protoss, this is slightly tricky. I find blindly 12 hatching bad play, since if a probe scouts you on first try, you're hugely behind, having to go 12 pool, which SUCKS in zvp. So in general in zvp, go overpool. Though, on many maps, like Python and Fighting spirit, you can send your overlord so you will see if his probe finds you on first try. If it does, you'll see it in time to go overpool. If it doesn't, you can go 12 hatch. This is the way Calm and many other tip top zergs opens zvp, and I find it the strongest way to open. | ||
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Uncle NayNay
United States11 Posts
Against protoss, I go overpool as a matter of course, because it can easily stop all 2-gate pressure builds, and transitions nicely into counters for forge FE. In particular: 1. The fast lings force the protoss to make up to 2 cannons before nexus, which puts their economy slightly behind yours. 2. The overpool build actually allows you to get your 3rd hatchery down slightly faster than a 12 hatch build, because you sit with more drones mining while your 2nd hatchery is morphing. But this can only translate into an advantage for the zerg if they can maintain that 3rd base. Then again, that's what that earlier pool is for. 3. Because of the nature of the faster 3rd, overpool builds start off very briefly aggressive with the early lings, then slowly accelerate the economy to a bone-crushing degree. The 12 hatch, on the other hand, gets a faster economy acceleration, because of the opportunity to saturate that 2nd base faster, rather than slowly adding drones at 3 hatcheries simultaneously. This can grant the flexibility of being able to expand slower but safer, as opposed to the rather greedy fast 3-base builds I tend to favor. | ||
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