On February 18 2010 23:43 craaaaack wrote:Show nested quote +On February 18 2010 19:42 NrG.Qwerty wrote:
Well, I'm B-/B player, so i'm far to be the best player but i have some knowledge of the match up...
-First of all, overpool lair depends a lot of spawning positions, if you're beeing scouted late, it's extremly powerful, against pretty much every build. Ofc, your opponent can try to scout you with lings but he can't be sure of the build you're doing, 12 hatch main into mass lings (even if it's rare), 9 gas/11 pool, 12 pool into hatch main. Ofc this builds are uncommon nowadays but it can happen...
For exemple, on Fighting spirit in cross positions, you are sure of the build of your opponent only when spire is at 500hp or smthg, which is already too late to adapt well...
-second, it can be easily handle by pool12 if he scouted early. I really think mass lings isn't a good option (at least on a map with ramp), drone asap, do the right amount of lings (just enough to handle an attack), drone up, spore (secure 2nd gas is very very important) and dont get too late on spire, then you should have gas advantage, and more mutas...
-Imo, what is a pretty hard counter to overpool lair is 9gas, 11 pool (which is an hard counter to 9p speed too)... You have slightly more gas, you're not too late on spire (mutas should pop when his are comming) and more important, you have your 2nd hatch waaaaay before him. You can add the fact that you kinda lead the game, cause you know he won't pressure (if he does, it's stupid), you have 2nd hatch, you have enough larva too produce lings and drones, and get an even more important economical advantage
Finally a good post. FINALLY.
Hello Qwerty, I'm NrG.Crack haha. I'd consider myself an B-/B player like you, i hit B+ 2 seasons ago, whatever.
Yes you seem right, the builds you described might counter it pretty well but again as you said they are VERY uncommon and just lose vs most of other build orders.
12 pool without ling pressure is exactly what i thought would be the strongest vs overpool lair. However as VODs have shown (i will find them later, just to lazy right now) that the 12pool player still has to get spores up. This in addition to him losing mapcontrol to mutas and a potentional ling-runby together with your pretty early nat-hatch and a good saturated main sets you in a comfortable position.
It may even be that the danger of lingpressure by the overpool player makes it so good. 12pool cant scout if you are making lings or droning up because of mutas and has to get lings. Its all about scouting information and adapting; overpool can keep droning while 12pool has to get lings.
9gas, 11 pool/12pool looks like another possible counter. Make sure to check out the latest Jaedong vs Effort VOD for this.
Gas before overlord builds want to get a fast 2. hatch and do a timing attack with the first 6 mutas.
This build dont plan to expand early because you want to stay at a low ling count and defend with a well placed sunk. Overpool however CAN get that expansion and it will be early enough to nullify the gas disadvantage. While looking the VOD i thought it was allready over after Effort got an early sunken which was a complete waste of money. Maybe if Jd scouted him right away he would be at advantage but it didnt happen. Jd would never had outnumbered Efforts mutas if he attacked his main, and all Effort had to do it to wait and let his 2. gas kick in.
EPT
