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10:30
+ Show Spoiler +![[image loading]](http://img213.imageshack.us/img213/2746/fightingtopleft.jpg) On this one, all of the buildings can be pushed forward a little to make room for cannons against hydra breaks.
1:30
+ Show Spoiler +![[image loading]](http://img213.imageshack.us/img213/2725/fightingtopright.jpg) On this one, the gateway can be moved down to level with the forge to make room for more cannons against hydra breaks.
4:30
+ Show Spoiler +All of these buildings can be shifted right 2 spaces, allowing for a much better cannon line against hydra breaks.
7:30
+ Show Spoiler +The forge and gateway can both be shifted up 1 tile to allow for a nice wall of cannons against hydra breaks.
As a note, I generally engineer my walls to be as effective as possible against ling all-ins, because if you have a good wall and react well, you can survive a ling all-in without having scouted it. Against hydra breaks, it generally doesn't matter if you have a good wall or not if you don't scout it. Also, ling all-ins seem to be a bit more common on ICCup than hydra breaks. That being said, the adjustments I mentioned for each wall will allow room for cannons against hydra breaks without compromising the integrity against Zerglings. The trade-off is that the cannons end up that much farther away from the Nexus and mineral line, so it's less effective against mutas.
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I use bisu's cause you can put core and stargate at nat without the second pylon there.
On January 31 2010 14:31 cUrsOr wrote:The 7 o'clock I used is a direct copy from Stork, and yes I think its superior. The gateway isn't so far out to be sniped, and the cannon line is straight across so they all fire together. Take a look, youll see what I'm saying: Stork: + Show Spoiler +Bisu: + Show Spoiler +
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can't lings pass through the pylon and gate in the stork placement picture?
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iNfeRnaL
Germany1908 Posts
Sorry but 7 and 11 o'clock wallins are absolutely TRASH.
I don't fucking care if Stork used the one for 7 o'clock too, it SUCKS.
Thats like 3 spots where Zerglings can pass, forge and gateway don't even wall together.
11 o'clock is same bullshit, GATEWAY ON TOP OF FORGE NEVER REVERSED.
That's the only way to get it lingtight.
As for 11 o'clock you would put a forge on the bottom cliff, a gateway on top of it and put 2 cannons behind it.
Bisu's placement for 7 is better just because you don't have to place 6 probes at 3 different spots in order to get it closed, but just 4. But Bisu's cannon placement on your screenshot is ridicolously bad as well, just put the cannons + pylon next to the gateway = kthx.
Nice effort tho.
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iNfeRnaL
Germany1908 Posts
On January 31 2010 16:55 Shauni wrote:
can't lings pass through the pylon and gate in the stork placement picture?
Of course they can... lol
[Edit: Except if you put two DT's in there!1111eleven]
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+ Show Spoiler +
I see no reason why you'd want to have your forge above your gate. Lings will get through, and it requires you to block with more units which is always bad.
You could have your forge where your gate is and your gate where your forge is. you'd have a much better wall-in that way, though its a bit harder to make its definately worth it.
+ Show Spoiler +
terrible wall-in. lings get through from between your pylon/gate, maybe even from the right side of the pylon as well. I see no reason at all for this, you could just place your gate next to the cliff instead of leaving a big gap like that.
+ Show Spoiler +
lings might get through from the right side of the forge. Not sure tho.
this is also weak against hydra pushes, which is why I like to place my forge against the left side of the cliff since there's more room for cannons too.
On January 31 2010 15:52 Kyadytim wrote:+ Show Spoiler +10:30 + Show Spoiler +On this one, all of the buildings can be pushed forward a little to make room for cannons against hydra breaks. 1:30 + Show Spoiler +On this one, the gateway can be moved down to level with the forge to make room for more cannons against hydra breaks. 4:30 + Show Spoiler +All of these buildings can be shifted right 2 spaces, allowing for a much better cannon line against hydra breaks. 7:30 + Show Spoiler +The forge and gateway can both be shifted up 1 tile to allow for a nice wall of cannons against hydra breaks. As a note, I generally engineer my walls to be as effective as possible against ling all-ins, because if you have a good wall and react well, you can survive a ling all-in without having scouted it. Against hydra breaks, it generally doesn't matter if you have a good wall or not if you don't scout it. Also, ling all-ins seem to be a bit more common on ICCup than hydra breaks. That being said, the adjustments I mentioned for each wall will allow room for cannons against hydra breaks without compromising the integrity against Zerglings. The trade-off is that the cannons end up that much farther away from the Nexus and mineral line, so it's less effective against mutas.
you rely on your cybercore too much. If they make a ling runby you probably wont have started your core yet. Secondly, it allows them to scout your tech timing too easily and makes it easier for lurks/hydras to snipe. In other words, dont use your core like that unless you're forced to. which you normally aren't. You can replace a core with a pylon if you really feel like you need it.
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I only use wall like this on 5 clock rest are kinda trash like infernal said. 7 and 11 are really bad positioned and 1 clock is asking like pls hydra allin rush me.
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On January 31 2010 22:54 Ahzz wrote:
you rely on your cybercore too much. If they make a ling runby you probably wont have started your core yet. Secondly, it allows them to scout your tech timing too easily and makes it easier for lurks/hydras to snipe. In other words, dont use your core like that unless you're forced to. which you normally aren't. You can replace a core with a pylon if you really feel like you need it.
Noted. Thanks.
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Storks pylon for 7 is snipeable instead of gateway111
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On January 31 2010 20:28 iNfeRnaL wrote:
Sorry but 7 and 11 o'clock wallins are absolutely TRASH.
Agree, except i'd say that each on the walls are pretty bad. There are a lot better ways for each spot.
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I edited 7' o clock, and the pylon placement picture.
This is a very slight variation on the one in Liquipedia, and with the cannons both in a row.
Thank you for the help.
Also, for the critisizm of 11'... read the post. In the alternate setup I have is the more common build on the south wall, that you described. But have explained why I do not like it for runbys.
Yes, at 7 the forge and the gate are separated, but tight against the walls.
Lets not forget: The point is to keep Zerglings from running up your ramp. Or harrassing your probes at natural (though would probably go up the ramp if they could). My point is, if you have a zergling tight wall on the south side of 11 o'clock, its pretty pointless if they can just run right up your ramp to the north. Same with "Bisu" build at 7, the gate is far out, and IF those lings come from the NW around that western wall, its REALLY easy to run up the ramp. Blocking ramps, and making a long run for the lings so they take cannon hits, is the point.
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Ugh such bad wallins for this 7. Here's mine:
There's a lot of extra room in the choke for cannons against hydra breaks, and it's much less exposed than other wallins that don't take advantage of the unintuitive forge placement. Also, the cannons are flush with the nex for more protection against mutas.
![[image loading]](http://i655.photobucket.com/albums/uu275/Fontong2/SCScrnShot_122409_152540.png)
others:
+ Show Spoiler +
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LoL yes its tight, I tested it too.
You might get shit for not stacking your Gate on Forge though.
I just put mine a bit foward, for a cannon line later...
but it seems to be the best setup right there... ^ ^ ^
Hence the edit.
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iNfeRnaL
Germany1908 Posts
wow fontong nice find for the 7 o clock pos.
it doesnt LOOK tight at all but somehow still is xD great stuff
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Thanks! I especially liked pylon placement and hydra break sections
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what the fuck. Fontong that 7 wallin is ridiculous
IT IS TIGGGGGGGHT <3
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Someone contact bisu and tell him to change his 7 oclock wallin haha. I don't even.... wow wtf wallin.
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waitasec. can goons fit in that 7?
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EPT![[image loading]](http://img27.imageshack.us/img27/551/fightingbottomright.jpg)
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![[image loading]](http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft/images/c/c0/FightingSpirit_7oclock.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e267/8orion8/FightingSpiritGuide/NWbuild.jpg)
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