|
United States33192 Posts
Sources:
Daily E-Sports
http://www.fomos.kr/board/board.php?mode=read&keyno=98301&db=issue
http://www.fomos.kr/board/board.php?mode=read&keyno=98384&db=issue
http://www.fomos.kr/board/board.php?mode=read&keyno=98332&db=issue
On August 11th, Kespa held an information session regarding the new "Free Agent" policy. Here are some translated points from e-sports journalists. Most of it's boring, except the repayment clause.
The purpose of the FA policy: To allow pro-teams to employ players for a contracted period of time, and then guarantee the player's right to sign with other teams after the contract has expired.
Qualifying as a free agent
Players must have been active for the following number of years AFTER June 27th, 2006
Progamers registered before June 27th, 2006: Three years.
Progamers on non-corporate teams: Four years.
Progamers on corporate teams: Five years.
Players must have played a minimum amount of games.
Appeared in over 25% regular season pro-league games (excluding playoffs). Appearing in a team's lineup counts as an appearance, even if the player did not actually play a game.
Pro-league games since 2005 are relevant.
The Process.
Negotiations with present team: August 12th ~ 20th.
Uncontracted players announced: August 21st.
Bidding/Offers period: August 21st ~ 25th.
Players informed of bidding teams: August 26th.
Player selection between bidding teams: August 26th ~ 27th.
*REPAYMENT RULES*
Teams that wish to acquire free agents must A) Repay 200% of the progamer's annual salary to their original team, or B) Repay 100% of the progamer's annual salary to the original team, and give one player to the original team (excluding six players on their protected players list). Progamers who earn less than 50,000,000 Won a year are excluded from the repayment rule.
KESPA ADDENDUM: August 14th
Amongst the bidding teams, the player is UNABLE to select their team of choice, and MUST negotiate a contract with the team that bids the highest amount.
You must be fucking kidding
Uncontracted players announced: August 28th.
Final round of negotiations with original team for uncontracted players: August 28th ~ 31st.
Players who are still uncontracted after August 31st will have Semi-pro status until the next Free Agent period.
Final announcements from the FA period: September 3rd.
Players are forbidden from employing agents
Here's a list of Free Agents by Cadical
On August 10 2009 12:18 Cadical wrote:FA Eligibility List is Out KT Fingerboom -  fOrGG, Shine,  Luxury, 815, FireFist,  Nal_rASKTelecom - Bisu, Midas, iloveoov, CanataHwaseung - Jaedong, HiyASamsung - Stork, JangBi, TT, firebathero, oDinMBCGame - Sea, Light, Saint, HyuN, PusanCJ - sAviOr, Iris, MuchHite - go.go, YellOw[ArnC] Estro - UpMaGiC, SangHo, TesterSTX소울 - Hwasin, Calm, July, Kal, SoOWeMade - NaDa, Mind Woongjin - free, GGPlayNegotiation with current team will take place on August 12th through 20th. Other teams excluding current team will place bids between August 21st through 25th. Re-negotiation with current team will be from August 28th through 31st. source1source2
|
United States33192 Posts
I don't know why they bother calling it a "free" agent policy. Looks goddamn terrible.
|
51397 Posts
What defines a corporate and non-corporate team?
I assume those that are big chaebols like SKT, KT are Corporate, while the little teams like eSTRO, Woongjin are non-corporate.
|
United States33192 Posts
On August 12 2009 10:40 GTR wrote:
What defines a corporate and non-corporate team?
I assume those that are big chaebols like SKT, KT are Corporate, while the little teams like eSTRO, Woongjin are non-corporate.
I have nothing to go by except the terrible synopsis skills of e-sports journalists.
|
Wait..so if a team wants a player they have to pay the other team DOUBLE what they were paying said player, on top of his new salary? Seems kinda odd...
|
I'm not sure I'm understanding the repayment rules right. If a team buys up an expensive player, they have to pay even more money to the player's old team?
|
51397 Posts
On August 12 2009 10:43 Cyberspace1 wrote:
Wait..so if a team wants a player they have to pay the other team DOUBLE what they were paying said player, on top of his new salary? Seems kinda odd...
It's to encourage poorer teams into keeping their players.
It's basically a rigged Free Agent system designed to favor the teams that have money.
Also Protected Players = Players who cannot be sold? Or what?
Man, Korean e-Sports journalists suck.
|
On August 12 2009 10:43 GTR wrote:Show nested quote +On August 12 2009 10:43 Cyberspace1 wrote:
Wait..so if a team wants a player they have to pay the other team DOUBLE what they were paying said player, on top of his new salary? Seems kinda odd... It's to encourage poorer teams into keeping their players. It's basically a rigged Free Agent system designed to favor the teams that have money. Also Protected Players = Players who cannot be sold? Or what? Man, Korean e-Sports journalists suck.
I'm guessing if Team A acquired a player from Team B and went the 100% repay + 1 player that Team B chooses option, Team A would have a 6 player protected list that Team B would not be able to choose from.
|
I assume Ace can't obtain free agents 
it might also encourage poorer teams to "sell" their expensive players for cash :/ (like some of the poorer baseball teams)
|
United States33192 Posts
On August 12 2009 10:43 GTR wrote:Show nested quote +On August 12 2009 10:43 Cyberspace1 wrote:
Wait..so if a team wants a player they have to pay the other team DOUBLE what they were paying said player, on top of his new salary? Seems kinda odd... It's to encourage poorer teams into keeping their players. It's basically a rigged Free Agent system designed to favor the teams that have money. Also Protected Players = Players who cannot be sold? Or what? Man, Korean e-Sports journalists suck.
it could just be that the powerpoint at the kespa presentation was shit in the first place, I dunno.
Protected players are just guys you can't name as part of a repayment package from what I can tell. I think the 200% thing is there to try and prevent the rich teams from just FA raiding everyone. You could assemble a ridiculous core of "good" level players who would work for less than $100,000 if you were SKT or KT in this Free agency period, if there wasn't a fee attached to it.
I think players are fucked in the final re-negotiation phase though, since they have to sign with their original team for whatever amount or they're just out of work  .
|
United States33192 Posts
On August 12 2009 10:52 jonnyp wrote:I assume Ace can't obtain free agents it might also encourage poorer teams to "sell" their expensive players for cash :/ (like some of the poorer baseball teams)
I mean they can already do this.... I just assume that 2x salary is a cheaper price than you would typically have to pay as a transfer fee for a non FA.
|
Osaka27136 Posts
What this means is that if a player says no to his original team to test the FA waters, and then gets no/terrible offers from other teams, his original team can rape him in the final phase because the player has no choice but to sign.
|
Katowice25012 Posts
This is really bizarre, so "free agency" will be open for a set period where people will have some kind of bidding war, and then the FA period closes and things go back to normal? Is speculation that they would just do this once a year after proleague or something?
|
I never thought about this before reading this thread, but do progamers have agents that represent them in negotiations like regular sports agents?
|
It sounds rigged for the richer teams. Honestly, I don't like this idea, because my favorite players might move to teams that I don't really like. =(
|
they're not free agents if one team has to pay the other team double for their player...that's just a trade, in a weird sense.
|
Hope that there are some big movers to shake up the teams since it seems like for the most part that there is a little stagnation especially at the bottom. I know Estro is tearing it up right now but if estro or mbc hero got a boost it could help turn their play around and make all the teams that much more competitive. (minus ACE, but who cares, they are everyone's lovable losers)
|
So the whole thing is about trading players but the other team have to pay twice as much to the original player's salary? Wow, I would rather keep my players this way and make them train harder than trade them and have to pay double.
|
Artosis
United States2140 Posts
originally jaedong was going to take advantage of FA, but now hwaseung has promised to make him the highest paid progamer ever, so it looks like Jaedong OZ will continue to win things on the back of 1 player !
|
On August 12 2009 11:19 Artosis wrote:
originally jaedong was going to take advantage of FA, but now hwaseung has promised to make him the highest paid progamer ever, so it looks like Jaedong OZ will continue to win things on the back of 1 player !
damn, I was just thinking that Jaedong might have had enough of carrying Oz and would look to land with a better team. It might be in Jaedong's interest to keep his original pay and tell Oz to get another S-class player or else. ether way he needs to lightin up his work load.
|
is there any salary cap for pro SC ? I mean, like the NBA for example ?
|
Why's Nal_Ra's name on the FingerBoom list anyways..?
|
51397 Posts
because he is technically still contracted to KT
|
This sounds both bad and good...
A more clear article needs to come out. ):
|
On August 12 2009 11:19 Artosis wrote:
originally jaedong was going to take advantage of FA, but now hwaseung has promised to make him the highest paid progamer ever, so it looks like Jaedong OZ will continue to win things on the back of 1 player !
I think for that much money the could drop JD and just get quite a few decent players. Would make much more sense but on the other hand they DID reach the grand finals because of him while other teams with a few decent players didn't.
|
Aotearoa39261 Posts
I'm really worried about the players on that list who are slumping at the moment =/
|
|
|
Should get the draft order by reversing the PL standings. That would be more fair.
On August 12 2009 11:19 Artosis wrote:
originally jaedong was going to take advantage of FA, but now hwaseung has promised to make him the highest paid progamer ever, so it looks like Jaedong OZ will continue to win things on the back of 1 player !
+ Show Spoiler +SU (in a non-malicious way)
|
Wow... SC players need a players union to combat this. These aren't FA rules and they just fuck the players and let money heavy teams hump the system.
|
10387 Posts
oh man if you can't get a contract you become a semi-pro?? harsh
|
Cayman Islands24199 Posts
i wouldn't expect unions or any kind of organization when they apparently have no agents and have 2 days of "negotiations."
maybe the parents could organize something, provided that the industry is actually making money.
|
|
|
On August 12 2009 11:09 Xiphos wrote:
So the whole thing is about trading players but the other team have to pay twice as much to the original player's salary? Wow, I would rather keep my players this way and make them train harder than trade them and have to pay double.
They just have to pay 2months Salarys to the Original team, ONE time. not forever. The Salary of the bought player isn't mentioned at all. I say that this helps smaller Teams A LOT! I can afford 2 Month Salarys for a good player much easier than "free" prices. Does nobody else than me get this?
//edit: omg it says annual... LOL
|
konadora
Singapore66145 Posts
*REPAYMENT RULES*
Teams that wish to acquire free agents must A) Repay 200% of the the progamer's annual salary to their original team, or B) Repay 100% of the progamer's annual salary to the original team, and give one player to the original team (excluding six players on their protected players list). Progamers who earn less than 50,000,000 Won a year are excluded from the repayment rule.
Basically a scheme to squeeze out more money.
Damn KeSPA.
|
On August 12 2009 11:19 Artosis wrote:
originally jaedong was going to take advantage of FA, but now hwaseung has promised to make him the highest paid progamer ever, so it looks like Jaedong OZ will continue to win things on the back of 1 player !
Yeah.. I guess Hwaseung Oz will never let Jaedong go away xD
|
Osaka27136 Posts
On August 12 2009 17:29 konadora wrote:Show nested quote +*REPAYMENT RULES*
Teams that wish to acquire free agents must A) Repay 200% of the the progamer's annual salary to their original team, or B) Repay 100% of the progamer's annual salary to the original team, and give one player to the original team (excluding six players on their protected players list). Progamers who earn less than 50,000,000 Won a year are excluded from the repayment rule. Basically a scheme to squeeze out more money. Damn KeSPA.
Actually it is a way for poor teams to at least get compensation if the big 4 decide to throw around big dollars.
|
This is hardly free agency...
|
i dont really like this.
to me, some teams have been defined by the composition of certain players. when they all shift around like this, it'll really change things. and it'll be weird
|
On August 12 2009 11:19 Artosis wrote:
originally jaedong was going to take advantage of FA, but now hwaseung has promised to make him the highest paid progamer ever, so it looks like Jaedong OZ will continue to win things on the back of 1 player !
I really hope OZ atleast scores maybe one of the slumping dragons or something. They can't keep hogging the most talented player like this. If OZ didn't have Jaedong they would be at the same level as ESTRO at best.
|
Germany / USA16648 Posts
On August 12 2009 10:57 Manifesto7 wrote:
What this means is that if a player says no to his original team to test the FA waters, and then gets no/terrible offers from other teams, his original team can rape him in the final phase because the player has no choice but to sign.
This is so fucking stupid
I hate Kespa so much
On August 12 2009 13:31 Avidkeystamper wrote:
Should get the draft order by reversing the PL standings. That would be more fair.
Isn't that how they do it at the draft for new players?
|
Yes, why shouldn't they do it here?
|
I didn´t understand half of that stuff, but I just wish SKT T1 sells Midas,Canata and Bisu and gets Savior, NalRa and Calm just for the lulz.
That would be so win.
|
On August 13 2009 00:05 Mah Buckit! wrote:
I didn´t understand half of that stuff, but I just wish SKT T1 sells Midas,Canata and Bisu and gets Savior, NalRa and Calm just for the lulz.
That would be so win.
You, sir, are dead to me.
+ Show Spoiler +Even if I want Nal_rA and Calm in T1 colors
|
Germany / USA16648 Posts
On August 12 2009 23:59 Avidkeystamper wrote:
Yes, why shouldn't they do it here?
Let me reverse the question: why should they?
Players usually want to go to a team that is better for them, more often than not this will not be a team that is ranked low.
|
That's how they do drafts, why not here?
|
On August 12 2009 17:41 Manifesto7 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 12 2009 17:29 konadora wrote:*REPAYMENT RULES*
Teams that wish to acquire free agents must A) Repay 200% of the the progamer's annual salary to their original team, or B) Repay 100% of the progamer's annual salary to the original team, and give one player to the original team (excluding six players on their protected players list). Progamers who earn less than 50,000,000 Won a year are excluded from the repayment rule. Basically a scheme to squeeze out more money. Damn KeSPA. Actually it is a way for poor teams to at least get compensation if the big 4 decide to throw around big dollars.
Just curious, who are the big 4? SKT, KT, Samsung, and Hwaseung?
|
If somehow Free and UpMaGiC moved to hwaseung it would be the best day Ever
|
Germany / USA16648 Posts
On August 13 2009 00:14 Avidkeystamper wrote:
That's how they do drafts, why not here?
Because it'd be really stupid?
I don't follow US Sports, so before the 1st progamer draft long ago I had never even heard of player drafting before. Back then I read up on it a little and found out that it's apparently common practice for you. I can see the merit of a draft when it comes to new players, who have yet to prove themselves (other than passing courage), but for later transfers? Where's the sense in that? Say Free wants to join a better team, say CJ or SKT. Why would you want him to have to negotiate with the bottom ranked PL teams first when he wants a better and not a worse team? That makes no sense at all
|
MrHoon
10183 Posts
New FA Article
Sauce
I had this posted up earlier, but I had trouble translating it
I really had no idea how to put this in better words in english
So any translator who stops by here wanna correct me please do...
But this is basically what the headlines say
"The main issue is regarding players with salaries less than 50 grand."
So remember this rule?A) Repay 200% of the the progamer's annual salary to their original team, or B) Repay 100% of the progamer's annual salary to the original team, and give one player to the original team (excluding six players on their protected players list). Progamers who earn less than 50,000,000 Won a year are excluded from the repayment rule.
Well the article basically talks about how many players do have a salary lower than 50 grand (ie, Baby has a $6000 salary lolol).
And how players who should be getting paid more than they should could be getting financially abused by their sponsor.
I would post Korean Netizens comments here, but right now they're arguing whether working in a cubicle for 20 grand is better than being a progamer for 50grand
|
On August 13 2009 00:32 Carnac wrote:Show nested quote +On August 13 2009 00:14 Avidkeystamper wrote:
That's how they do drafts, why not here? Because it'd be really stupid? I don't follow US Sports, so before the 1st progamer draft long ago I had never even heard of player drafting before. Back then I read up on it a little and found out that it's apparently common practice for you. I can see the merit of a draft when it comes to new players, who have yet to prove themselves (other than passing courage), but for later transfers? Where's the sense in that? Say Free wants to join a better team, say CJ or SKT. Why would you want him to have to negotiate with the bottom ranked PL teams first when he wants a better and not a worse team? That makes no sense at all
This is true. Drafts work the way they do because teams will have the chance to raise new talent. It doesn't work with allready established stars. I mean who wants to see Bisu in Estro and Jaedong in MBC?
|
First of all, why is Nal_rA in there? Is he not retired? Yea he is still in the "team" but he doesnt play, nor does he advertise for them or anything... He announced his retirement too... And oov is also retired right?
So this is how I understand it.
Lets just say I am SKT1, and I want to have FireFist in my team. I would have to pay KT Fingerboom twice FireFist's salary OR his salary + give away one of my players (like thezerg) to get FireFist. Is this a good example, or am I wrong. Either way it is kinda confusing...
|
On August 13 2009 00:39 StarBrift wrote:Show nested quote +On August 13 2009 00:32 Carnac wrote:On August 13 2009 00:14 Avidkeystamper wrote:
That's how they do drafts, why not here? Because it'd be really stupid? I don't follow US Sports, so before the 1st progamer draft long ago I had never even heard of player drafting before. Back then I read up on it a little and found out that it's apparently common practice for you. I can see the merit of a draft when it comes to new players, who have yet to prove themselves (other than passing courage), but for later transfers? Where's the sense in that? Say Free wants to join a better team, say CJ or SKT. Why would you want him to have to negotiate with the bottom ranked PL teams first when he wants a better and not a worse team? That makes no sense at all This is true. Drafts work the way they do because teams will have the chance to raise new talent. It doesn't work with allready established stars. I mean who wants to see Bisu in Estro and Jaedong in MBC?
Won't this just widen the gap between the top six and the bottom six? Just because a team like eSTRO gets to choose first, doesn't mean they'll get their pick.
|
This is pretty dumb way of doing things... Progamers should try to stand up for themselves or something, because it's quite ridiculous. Yeah I do understand that they're 15-2x years old so they get abused, but comeon...
|
Wow this makes it real hard to poach expensive players. You basically have to be willing to shell out more than 3 times the money the original team is offering.
|
On August 13 2009 05:32 Avidkeystamper wrote:Show nested quote +On August 13 2009 00:39 StarBrift wrote:On August 13 2009 00:32 Carnac wrote:On August 13 2009 00:14 Avidkeystamper wrote:
That's how they do drafts, why not here? Because it'd be really stupid? I don't follow US Sports, so before the 1st progamer draft long ago I had never even heard of player drafting before. Back then I read up on it a little and found out that it's apparently common practice for you. I can see the merit of a draft when it comes to new players, who have yet to prove themselves (other than passing courage), but for later transfers? Where's the sense in that? Say Free wants to join a better team, say CJ or SKT. Why would you want him to have to negotiate with the bottom ranked PL teams first when he wants a better and not a worse team? That makes no sense at all This is true. Drafts work the way they do because teams will have the chance to raise new talent. It doesn't work with allready established stars. I mean who wants to see Bisu in Estro and Jaedong in MBC? Won't this just widen the gap between the top six and the bottom six? Just because a team like eSTRO gets to choose first, doesn't mean they'll get their pick.
Um well if you pick first at draft you will get whatever player you want/choose, period. Top teams will get less good players that point (might be better few years later though).
Anyways Wemade Fox has first pick then eSTRO.
|
On August 13 2009 05:32 Avidkeystamper wrote:Show nested quote +On August 13 2009 00:39 StarBrift wrote:On August 13 2009 00:32 Carnac wrote:On August 13 2009 00:14 Avidkeystamper wrote:
That's how they do drafts, why not here? Because it'd be really stupid? I don't follow US Sports, so before the 1st progamer draft long ago I had never even heard of player drafting before. Back then I read up on it a little and found out that it's apparently common practice for you. I can see the merit of a draft when it comes to new players, who have yet to prove themselves (other than passing courage), but for later transfers? Where's the sense in that? Say Free wants to join a better team, say CJ or SKT. Why would you want him to have to negotiate with the bottom ranked PL teams first when he wants a better and not a worse team? That makes no sense at all This is true. Drafts work the way they do because teams will have the chance to raise new talent. It doesn't work with allready established stars. I mean who wants to see Bisu in Estro and Jaedong in MBC? Won't this just widen the gap between the top six and the bottom six? Just because a team like eSTRO gets to choose first, doesn't mean they'll get their pick.
Are you saying you want to turn the free agent period into a redraft of all the free agents? Well, it wouldn't be free agency anymore then. The whole reason free agency started in sports like baseball and basketball was because the players could get screwed by their employer. Free agency leads to higher salaries for the players.
If your goal is to balance the rich and poor teams, then you can try things like a salary cap and/or revenue sharing which would screw the players over less than essentially eliminating free agency.
|
On August 12 2009 10:43 Cyberspace1 wrote:
Wait..so if a team wants a player they have to pay the other team DOUBLE what they were paying said player, on top of his new salary? Seems kinda odd...
Yeah that is weird and it seems like that would discourage teams and players from wanting to be traded.
|
On August 13 2009 00:39 StarBrift wrote:Show nested quote +On August 13 2009 00:32 Carnac wrote:On August 13 2009 00:14 Avidkeystamper wrote:
That's how they do drafts, why not here? Because it'd be really stupid? I don't follow US Sports, so before the 1st progamer draft long ago I had never even heard of player drafting before. Back then I read up on it a little and found out that it's apparently common practice for you. I can see the merit of a draft when it comes to new players, who have yet to prove themselves (other than passing courage), but for later transfers? Where's the sense in that? Say Free wants to join a better team, say CJ or SKT. Why would you want him to have to negotiate with the bottom ranked PL teams first when he wants a better and not a worse team? That makes no sense at all This is true. Drafts work the way they do because teams will have the chance to raise new talent. It doesn't work with allready established stars. I mean who wants to see Bisu in Estro and Jaedong in MBC?
I might enjoy that just to see the speed of Plexa's 180 w/r/t Jaedong
|
|
|
I wonder how many players are willing to go "free agent" if their current team offers fairly same amount as their current salary. There might be risk that nobody picks you.
|
51397 Posts
On August 13 2009 00:36 MrHoon wrote:New FA Article SauceI had this posted up earlier, but I had trouble translating it I really had no idea how to put this in better words in english So any translator who stops by here wanna correct me please do... But this is basically what the headlines say "The main issue is regarding players with salaries less than 50 grand."So remember this rule? Show nested quote +A) Repay 200% of the the progamer's annual salary to their original team, or B) Repay 100% of the progamer's annual salary to the original team, and give one player to the original team (excluding six players on their protected players list). Progamers who earn less than 50,000,000 Won a year are excluded from the repayment rule. Well the article basically talks about how many players do have a salary lower than 50 grand (ie, Baby has a $6000 salary lolol). And how players who should be getting paid more than they should could be getting financially abused by their sponsor. I would post Korean Netizens comments here, but right now they're arguing whether working in a cubicle for 20 grand is better than being a progamer for 50grand
Well at least Baby makes more than 99% of the 14 year olds in Korea
|
United States11390 Posts
On August 13 2009 06:20 EvoChamber wrote:Show nested quote +On August 13 2009 00:39 StarBrift wrote:On August 13 2009 00:32 Carnac wrote:On August 13 2009 00:14 Avidkeystamper wrote:
That's how they do drafts, why not here? Because it'd be really stupid? I don't follow US Sports, so before the 1st progamer draft long ago I had never even heard of player drafting before. Back then I read up on it a little and found out that it's apparently common practice for you. I can see the merit of a draft when it comes to new players, who have yet to prove themselves (other than passing courage), but for later transfers? Where's the sense in that? Say Free wants to join a better team, say CJ or SKT. Why would you want him to have to negotiate with the bottom ranked PL teams first when he wants a better and not a worse team? That makes no sense at all This is true. Drafts work the way they do because teams will have the chance to raise new talent. It doesn't work with allready established stars. I mean who wants to see Bisu in Estro and Jaedong in MBC? I might enjoy that just to see the speed of Plexa's 180 w/r/t Jaedong
But would that be more amusing than Pusan coming (back) to Oz?
|
I see a couple of good zergs on there for the picking~
|
On August 13 2009 00:22 EvoChamber wrote:Show nested quote +On August 12 2009 17:41 Manifesto7 wrote:On August 12 2009 17:29 konadora wrote:*REPAYMENT RULES*
Teams that wish to acquire free agents must A) Repay 200% of the the progamer's annual salary to their original team, or B) Repay 100% of the progamer's annual salary to the original team, and give one player to the original team (excluding six players on their protected players list). Progamers who earn less than 50,000,000 Won a year are excluded from the repayment rule. Basically a scheme to squeeze out more money. Damn KeSPA. Actually it is a way for poor teams to at least get compensation if the big 4 decide to throw around big dollars. Just curious, who are the big 4? SKT, KT, Samsung, and Hwaseung?
I think the Big Four are SKT, KT, Samsung, and CJ. Hwaseung if i remember correctly is one of the poorer teams.
|
Cayman Islands24199 Posts
On August 13 2009 00:32 Carnac wrote:Show nested quote +On August 13 2009 00:14 Avidkeystamper wrote:
That's how they do drafts, why not here? Because it'd be really stupid? I don't follow US Sports, so before the 1st progamer draft long ago I had never even heard of player drafting before. Back then I read up on it a little and found out that it's apparently common practice for you. I can see the merit of a draft when it comes to new players, who have yet to prove themselves (other than passing courage), but for later transfers? Where's the sense in that? Say Free wants to join a better team, say CJ or SKT. Why would you want him to have to negotiate with the bottom ranked PL teams first when he wants a better and not a worse team? That makes no sense at all
the system is in place because there exists, for either legal or natural reasons, monopoly control over a particular sport. so for example if major league baseball owners are the only ones with right or capability to run baseball, then they would want a draft so that they can control the player inflow and distribute it. if there is no such monopoly, then players who want to play baseball can negotiate independently with different leagues, and leverage them against each other. but if there is only one league, and one draft, then players have no choice but to enter drafts.
the concept of a league itself and organizations like kespa are there to concentrate market power by controlling who could own teams, and how they should run them. competitive leagues like gom for instance are helpful to players and the scene in general, but to the established interests they are a threat.
these things are there as a result of how the business of the sport has developed over the years.
|
|
|
On August 13 2009 00:26 n.DieJokes wrote:
If somehow Free and Jaedong moved to estro it would be the best day Ever
Fixed.
|
On August 13 2009 08:05 Railz wrote:
I see a couple of good zergs on there for the picking~
Calm and Yellow[arcn] are hot bids right now
|
If free goes anywhere other than coming back to the Stars, it will be the worst day ever.
|
SKT's chance to acquire a good zerg? They're going to need more than BO advantages to pull out their Zerg victories.
|
United States33192 Posts
updated with Kespa's new bullshit ruling
|
ahem
FUCK Kespa
edit: wonder if they're doing a blind bid auction because of the "Players informed of bidding teams: August 26th" bit
the players don't seem to be involved at all except whether they agree to a contract with their current team by Aug 20. if they don't, then they roll the dice and hope a team puts out a decent bid for them.
|
Aotearoa39261 Posts
That latest addition is the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard
|
10387 Posts
what the hell..
when the fuck is this player's union ever coming about
|
Wow, this really changes things.
|
MrHoon
10183 Posts
they should just Ebay the players while they're at it
it would make the process so much easier
lol netizens are forming to ddos Kespa site haha
|
|
|
KESPA ADDENDUM: August 14th
Amongst the bidding teams, the player is UNABLE to select their team of choice, and MUST negotiate a contract with the team that bids the highest amount.
You must be fucking kidding
This blew me away.
|
This draft is so complicated and basically a massive scheme by KeSPA to ensure they maintain their monopoly.
I hope the netizens succeed. KeSPA is a terrible governing organization.
|
MrHoon
10183 Posts
Sorry thunk D:
Fomos and Kespa are now deleting negative comments about the FA on their website
|
51397 Posts
lol
it's like TL is the only e-sports journalist site that doesnt support kespa
|
Wow, that's the stupidest rule I've ever heard of.
|
Valhalla18444 Posts
hahahahahah what the FUCK
|
MrHoon
10183 Posts
On August 14 2009 15:46 GTR wrote:
lol
it's like TL is the only e-sports journalist site that doesnt support kespa
FIGHT DA POWA
|
I guess this is what happens when the players are all school aged kids...
Interested in seeing how things will turn out.
|
|
|
United States33192 Posts
also added note that players are forbidden from employing agents
|
Germany / USA16648 Posts
On August 14 2009 15:38 ActualSteve wrote:
KESPA ADDENDUM: August 14th
Amongst the bidding teams, the player is UNABLE to select their team of choice, and MUST negotiate a contract with the team that bids the highest amount.
You must be fucking kidding
This blew me away.
WHAT THE FUCK?
This is one of the most stupid things I have heard in my entire life
|
Germany / USA16648 Posts
I mean seriously how can anyone think this is a good idea???
Does KeSPA have some sort of in-house competition as to who can come up with the most ridiculous and retarded ideas? Because that's pretty much the only explanation I can think of.
|
fucking worse then endless eights
|
Wow, when I read the title of this thread, and I read the first few pages, I thought, "This isn't really like a slave auction..." But then I read the rule that I guess was added on 8/14, and wow, it really is like a slave auction. The thing is though, what is the incentive for Kespa to change their rules? Are we all just going to stop watching pro SC because of this? I mean, I know that most of us are foreigners who watch bootlegged versions of SC matches anyway, but really. Yeah, Kespa's rules might be completely ridiculous, but they can get away with it, because there's really no one else to challenge them.
So far the only things that I can think of that would stand a chance of changing Kespa's rules would be if many pro gamers went on strike, or if a new governing body came into power or something like that.
Also, I just remembered that there are some pro tournaments that aren't governed by Kespa, like I think the heritage league wasn't (I could be wrong about that though), but really unless a new proleague, OSL, or MSL comes around (I don't know about GOM since I never watch it), I don't see any incentive for Kespa to change.
|
On August 14 2009 16:23 Carnac wrote:
I mean seriously how can anyone think this is a good idea???
Does KeSPA have some sort of in-house competition as to who can come up with the most ridiculous and retarded ideas? Because that's pretty much the only explanation I can think of.
Regardless of how much you or may think it sucks, I don't see why it's a retarded idea from Kespa's standpoint. Slave auctions tend to work better from team standpoint than free agency. It's not so long ago when even American sports had pretty much no FA. And teams buy and sell players like livestock.
It really just boils down to the fact that players have absolutely no rights in the grand scheme of things, because they're not powerful enough to have any say in the matter. So Kespa can do whatever the hell they want. Why be fair when there's no need?
|
Germany / USA16648 Posts
Why be fair when there's no need? By the same logic I can ask why adhere to human rights when there's no need. Sup china? Great argument you have going there.
|
wait wtf, free agents cant even pick their team?
|
Hilariously poignant title edit.
The fans can't really do anything short of a boycott, what really needs to happen is the players themselves demand a players' union.
|
On August 14 2009 16:50 Carnac wrote:
Why be fair when there's no need? By the same logic I can ask why adhere to human rights when there's no need. Sup china? Great argument you have going there.
Nice of you to bring countries into this. Because someone living in China can't possibly understand human rights. If I didn't dislike the rolleyes emoticon so much I'd use it right now.
You might want to brush up on the history of American sports when it comes to player rights. Or for that matter, you could just ask illegal immigrants making below-minimum wage washing dishes and cleaning office buildings what they think of "fairness" and "human rights".
|
this is Retarded, it's unbelievable the length they go to, to satisfy the companies while raping the players.
players should just boycott this, too bad that'll place them in a unbelievably shitty position. it's so unjust it's mind boggling.
edit:
On August 14 2009 17:10 baubo wrote:Show nested quote +On August 14 2009 16:50 Carnac wrote:
Why be fair when there's no need? By the same logic I can ask why adhere to human rights when there's no need. Sup china? Great argument you have going there. Nice of you to bring countries into this. Because someone living in China can't possibly understand human rights. If I didn't dislike the rolleyes emoticon so much I'd use it right now. You might want to brush up on the history of American sports when it comes to player rights. Or for that matter, you could just ask illegal immigrants making below-minimum wage washing dishes and cleaning office buildings what they think of "fairness" and "human rights".
wait, so because it exists, it should be done. especially if there is economical gain?
just so i know exactly where you stand.
|
Germany / USA16648 Posts
On August 14 2009 17:10 baubo wrote:Show nested quote +On August 14 2009 16:50 Carnac wrote:
Why be fair when there's no need? By the same logic I can ask why adhere to human rights when there's no need. Sup china? Great argument you have going there. Nice of you to bring countries into this. Because someone living in China can't possibly understand human rights. If I didn't dislike the rolleyes emoticon so much I'd use it right now. You might want to brush up on the history of American sports when it comes to player rights. Or for that matter, you could just ask illegal immigrants making below-minimum wage washing dishes and cleaning office buildings what they think of "fairness" and "human rights". I never said that you as a person can't understand human rights. You aren't China or the Chinese government for that matter. China is one of many examples, it was just the easiest to use (and Germany isn't perfect either). But that's besides the point
Back to your argument: I don't see what the history of American sports has to do with it (and I don't care about US sports anyway). This isn't about history, this is about right here right now. I'm interested in Starcraft Progaming in Korea, why shouldn't I criticize it when they're very obviously doing something really bad? How can you even regard "why be fair when there's no need" a good argument? Come on, man
|
Aotearoa39261 Posts
On August 14 2009 17:02 MannerMan wrote:
Hilariously poignant title edit.
The fans can't really do anything short of a boycott, what really needs to happen is the players themselves demand a players' union. The irony is that that "union" was originally kespa ...
|
On August 14 2009 17:16 Etherone wrote:
wait, so because it exists, it should be done. especially if there is economical gain?
just so i know exactly where you stand.
I have no stance. Because after working for so many years I've pretty much immunized myself to corporate greed and exploitation of anything they can get away with. It's one thing if you're going to rip on S. Korea for having no laws to protect players from such unfair treatment. It's quite another to blame Kespa for just being greedy.
On August 14 2009 17:23 Carnac wrote:Show nested quote +On August 14 2009 17:10 baubo wrote:On August 14 2009 16:50 Carnac wrote:
Why be fair when there's no need? By the same logic I can ask why adhere to human rights when there's no need. Sup china? Great argument you have going there. Nice of you to bring countries into this. Because someone living in China can't possibly understand human rights. If I didn't dislike the rolleyes emoticon so much I'd use it right now. You might want to brush up on the history of American sports when it comes to player rights. Or for that matter, you could just ask illegal immigrants making below-minimum wage washing dishes and cleaning office buildings what they think of "fairness" and "human rights". I never said that you as a person can't understand human rights. You aren't China or the Chinese government for that matter. China is one of many examples, it was just the easiest to use (and Germany isn't perfect either). But that's besides the point Back to your argument: I don't see what the history of American sports has to do with it (and I don't care about US sports anyway). This isn't about history, this is about right here right now. I'm interested in Starcraft Progaming in Korea, why shouldn't I criticize it when they're very obviously doing something really bad? How can you even regard "why be fair when there's no need" a good argument? Come on, man
I say it because companies are NEVER fair when there is no need to. This has nothing to do with America or Korea or past or present. It has always been the case. And it always will be. It has happened in every corner of the world. There's a reason why you have governments, laws, player unions, etc. trying their best to prevent such exploitation.
|
lol this is ridiculous; the players can't even choose which of the bidding teams he wants to go to, but can only negotiate a contract with the team that is bidding the most? Who came up with this idea?
|
honestly this is just another example of how little regard professional esports has for its players.
|
Please Jaedong get into a competent team!
These rules are just silly, why would the player not be able to choose the team he goes to?
I'm just curious about their justification.
|
On August 14 2009 18:09 ShaperofDreams wrote:
Please Jaedong get into a competent team!
These rules are just silly, why would the player not be able to choose the team he goes to?
I'm just curious about their justification.
shocking it's even legal.
|
Omg this is sooooo stupid...
|
Germany / USA16648 Posts
On August 14 2009 17:42 baubo wrote:Show nested quote +On August 14 2009 17:16 Etherone wrote:
wait, so because it exists, it should be done. especially if there is economical gain?
just so i know exactly where you stand.
I have no stance. Because after working for so many years I've pretty much immunized myself to corporate greed and exploitation of anything they can get away with. It's one thing if you're going to rip on S. Korea for having no laws to protect players from such unfair treatment. It's quite another to blame Kespa for just being greedy. Show nested quote +On August 14 2009 17:23 Carnac wrote:On August 14 2009 17:10 baubo wrote:On August 14 2009 16:50 Carnac wrote:
Why be fair when there's no need? By the same logic I can ask why adhere to human rights when there's no need. Sup china? Great argument you have going there. Nice of you to bring countries into this. Because someone living in China can't possibly understand human rights. If I didn't dislike the rolleyes emoticon so much I'd use it right now. You might want to brush up on the history of American sports when it comes to player rights. Or for that matter, you could just ask illegal immigrants making below-minimum wage washing dishes and cleaning office buildings what they think of "fairness" and "human rights". I never said that you as a person can't understand human rights. You aren't China or the Chinese government for that matter. China is one of many examples, it was just the easiest to use (and Germany isn't perfect either). But that's besides the point Back to your argument: I don't see what the history of American sports has to do with it (and I don't care about US sports anyway). This isn't about history, this is about right here right now. I'm interested in Starcraft Progaming in Korea, why shouldn't I criticize it when they're very obviously doing something really bad? How can you even regard "why be fair when there's no need" a good argument? Come on, man I say it because companies are NEVER fair when there is no need to. This has nothing to do with America or Korea or past or present. It has always been the case. And it always will be. It has happened in every corner of the world. There's a reason why you have governments, laws, player unions, etc. trying their best to prevent such exploitation.
Except, like Plexa said, KeSPA was there to represent the players :<
|
On August 14 2009 18:50 Carnac wrote:Show nested quote +On August 14 2009 17:42 baubo wrote:On August 14 2009 17:16 Etherone wrote:
wait, so because it exists, it should be done. especially if there is economical gain?
just so i know exactly where you stand.
I have no stance. Because after working for so many years I've pretty much immunized myself to corporate greed and exploitation of anything they can get away with. It's one thing if you're going to rip on S. Korea for having no laws to protect players from such unfair treatment. It's quite another to blame Kespa for just being greedy. On August 14 2009 17:23 Carnac wrote:On August 14 2009 17:10 baubo wrote:On August 14 2009 16:50 Carnac wrote:
Why be fair when there's no need? By the same logic I can ask why adhere to human rights when there's no need. Sup china? Great argument you have going there. Nice of you to bring countries into this. Because someone living in China can't possibly understand human rights. If I didn't dislike the rolleyes emoticon so much I'd use it right now. You might want to brush up on the history of American sports when it comes to player rights. Or for that matter, you could just ask illegal immigrants making below-minimum wage washing dishes and cleaning office buildings what they think of "fairness" and "human rights". I never said that you as a person can't understand human rights. You aren't China or the Chinese government for that matter. China is one of many examples, it was just the easiest to use (and Germany isn't perfect either). But that's besides the point Back to your argument: I don't see what the history of American sports has to do with it (and I don't care about US sports anyway). This isn't about history, this is about right here right now. I'm interested in Starcraft Progaming in Korea, why shouldn't I criticize it when they're very obviously doing something really bad? How can you even regard "why be fair when there's no need" a good argument? Come on, man I say it because companies are NEVER fair when there is no need to. This has nothing to do with America or Korea or past or present. It has always been the case. And it always will be. It has happened in every corner of the world. There's a reason why you have governments, laws, player unions, etc. trying their best to prevent such exploitation. Except, like Plexa said, KeSPA was there to represent the players :<
Except, like many other things in the world, what an organization is suppose to represent and what it actually does tend to be quite different.
|
Germany / USA16648 Posts
Watch out kids, we have a real smartass on our hands here
|
This is what happens when you don't have a union. (The no agents rule is especially ridiculous)
In the Boxer/Savior interview, Boxer said that he tried to organize a players union but failed, and that he's too old to do that now. I disagree. I think Boxer is the only player that could do it because he is so respected and admired by the players and fans. Or else starcraft players will have to do what other sports players have done in the past, which is to let the owners walk all over them for years and years until someone steps up and gets everyone organized.
|
This is so ridicoulus. Players should be able to go wherever they want after their contract expires, without any fee or anything else and if some team wants a player who is under contract with other team, then pay some money for him etc.
|
On August 14 2009 19:46 Carnac wrote:
Watch out kids, we have a real smartass on our hands here
*Shrugs* Weird how just commenting on smart business decisions turn me into being a smartass. But whatever floats your boat.
|
They shouldn't have to protect the small teams at the expense of the players either, if the teams can't afford to be in the league, they can't afford it.
There can't be revenue sharing because the sponsors do it for advertising, there's no home or away games where 30,000 people buy tickets to each game.
|
Wait... so theoritically, if I won the lottery or was just super rich, I could start my own team and just buy a Bisu, Jaedong, Sea super team?
|
On August 14 2009 20:12 baubo wrote:Show nested quote +On August 14 2009 19:46 Carnac wrote:
Watch out kids, we have a real smartass on our hands here *Shrugs* Weird how just commenting on smart business decisions turn me into being a smartass. But whatever floats your boat.
The reason people are getting so pissed off at this is because the sports and its players which we have all come to love is under serious abuse and exploitations, ans seriously, why are u posting in favor of kespa in these forums where people that LOVES this games and the pro-gamers? when it is obvious that kespa is fucking screwing up the players?
No need for fairness? what u like seeing Jaedong/Bisu or whoever u like being tossed around like slaves? Tell me this,
DO U NOT CARE ABOUT THE PLAYERS OTHER THAN THE GAMES THEY PLAY ON TV?
u don't give a shit as long they give u good entertaintment yes?
I got so furious reading that players aren't even allowed to pick whichever teams they like to go, and they still have the balls to call it FREE AGENTS, when they can't even employ an agent to represent them?
fuck this shit seriously, why are they all not on strike right now?
|
10387 Posts
On August 14 2009 20:49 n.DieJokes wrote:
Wait... so theoritically, if I won the lottery or was just super rich, I could start my own team and just buy a Bisu, Jaedong, Sea super team?
wtf why is Sea in there he's not even that good anymore
and knowing KeSPA they'd say no to you hahaha
|
51397 Posts
On August 14 2009 20:52 ArvickHero wrote:Show nested quote +On August 14 2009 20:49 n.DieJokes wrote:
Wait... so theoritically, if I won the lottery or was just super rich, I could start my own team and just buy a Bisu, Jaedong, Sea super team? wtf why is Sea in there he's not even that good anymore and knowing KeSPA they'd say no to you hahaha
actually hand them a couple of million dollars as a 'gift' and they'll probably let you.
|
Don't the players have a union? If not they should get one asap!
|
On August 15 2009 01:04 nttea wrote:
Don't the players have a union? If not they should get one asap!
Sadly, it's called Kespa.
|
Um, KeSPA's nowhere near to what a union is. In the Boxer-Savior interview, Boxer wanted to start up a union to prevent mistreatment before he retired, but there's been nothing on that yet.
|
As far as I know KeSPA was originally set up to be a front for the players, a representative of sorts. Therefore kind of a union. I might be wrong though, i've only really followed SC from 2007
|
Is this system even worse than before, where there was no system? Right now - the players up for this so-called free agency - have their regular contracts run out? If their regular contracts have run out and this is all they have going for them, it's extremely bad.
Who runs KESPA nowadays? I've heard it mentioned in the past it was a bunch of Korean business interests, probably the corporate team sponsors? And the president of KESPA was a corporate exec?
|
On August 15 2009 17:58 Zona wrote:
Is this system even worse than before, where there was no system? Right now - the players up for this so-called free agency - have their regular contracts run out? If their regular contracts have run out and this is all they have going for them, it's extremely bad.
Who runs KESPA nowadays? I've heard it mentioned in the past it was a bunch of Korean business interests, probably the corporate team sponsors? And the president of KESPA was a corporate exec?
I'm pretty sure SKT1 & OGN (Hite) have some type of business relationship with KESPA
at least I remember something like that during a Mumbo Jumbo explanation of why SKT1 & Hite did not participate in GOM
|
On August 14 2009 20:52 Shizuru~ wrote:Show nested quote +On August 14 2009 20:12 baubo wrote:On August 14 2009 19:46 Carnac wrote:
Watch out kids, we have a real smartass on our hands here *Shrugs* Weird how just commenting on smart business decisions turn me into being a smartass. But whatever floats your boat. The reason people are getting so pissed off at this is because the sports and its players which we have all come to love is under serious abuse and exploitations, ans seriously, why are u posting in favor of kespa in these forums where people that LOVES this games and the pro-gamers? when it is obvious that kespa is fucking screwing up the players? No need for fairness? what u like seeing Jaedong/Bisu or whoever u like being tossed around like slaves? Tell me this, DO U NOT CARE ABOUT THE PLAYERS OTHER THAN THE GAMES THEY PLAY ON TV? u don't give a shit as long they give u good entertaintment yes? I got so furious reading that players aren't even allowed to pick whichever teams they like to go, and they still have the balls to call it FREE AGENTS, when they can't even employ an agent to represent them? fuck this shit seriously, why are they all not on strike right now?
They could strike... and they'd fail hard.
This is a prime example of a business situation where one side having all the leverage and power. It's a very extreme case, which is what really grabbed my attention. Do I dislike it? Of course I do. But I look at what recourse the players have, and I can't find any. They are screwed because they have no power.
|
This will get better when SC2 comes out because there will be more tournaments which won't be ruled by kespa so they won't have monopoly so they'll have to change some things.
|
On August 12 2009 11:19 Artosis wrote:
originally jaedong was going to take advantage of FA, but now hwaseung has promised to make him the highest paid progamer ever, so it looks like Jaedong OZ will continue to win things on the back of 1 player !
Would be fun if someone bought him anyway for 2x "the highest payed player"
|
The way this slave rule reads to me is if they do not sign with their original team by the dead line, it means they are open for purchase to the highest bidder.
|
Aotearoa39261 Posts
On August 15 2009 19:01 baubo wrote:Show nested quote +On August 14 2009 20:52 Shizuru~ wrote:On August 14 2009 20:12 baubo wrote:On August 14 2009 19:46 Carnac wrote:
Watch out kids, we have a real smartass on our hands here *Shrugs* Weird how just commenting on smart business decisions turn me into being a smartass. But whatever floats your boat. The reason people are getting so pissed off at this is because the sports and its players which we have all come to love is under serious abuse and exploitations, ans seriously, why are u posting in favor of kespa in these forums where people that LOVES this games and the pro-gamers? when it is obvious that kespa is fucking screwing up the players? No need for fairness? what u like seeing Jaedong/Bisu or whoever u like being tossed around like slaves? Tell me this, DO U NOT CARE ABOUT THE PLAYERS OTHER THAN THE GAMES THEY PLAY ON TV? u don't give a shit as long they give u good entertaintment yes? I got so furious reading that players aren't even allowed to pick whichever teams they like to go, and they still have the balls to call it FREE AGENTS, when they can't even employ an agent to represent them? fuck this shit seriously, why are they all not on strike right now? They could strike... and they'd fail hard. This is a prime example of a business situation where one side having all the leverage and power. It's a very extreme case, which is what really grabbed my attention. Do I dislike it? Of course I do. But I look at what recourse the players have, and I can't find any. They are screwed because they have no power. Yea I agree. At the end of the day you would expect their coaches to at least try and bring about better rights for the players. But when you find out that the SKT Coach is the head of KeSPA you just are lost for words... (other coaches are on kespa as well)
|
51397 Posts
I don't think SKT Coach is chairman of KeSPA, rather the guy who actually 'runs' the team (some old business dude who doesn't really know about games).
EDIT: Just checked, the head of KeSPA is indeed Kim Sun-Bae, the SK Telecom Chairman.
|
Whether you like these rules or not, at the end of the day, it's business. They believe these rules will sustain a consistent business whether if it's fair for the players or not. Inevitably though, the longer something exists, the more it starts to become more corrupted.
Whenever anything begins, it's always pure, and it's always honest and natural. But as time goes on, and as things become more used to -- the purity, the honesty, and the naturality of it slowly diminishes and even disguised to make it seem like it's still the way it is.
Not talking only about businesses. I'm talking about pretty much everything. Relationships, love, heck, even the Earth as a planet. Remember that favorite cereal brand you loved when you were growing up? Now it's flooded with extra sugar-coated crap and shit pellets that ruins the entire taste of how it was when you first ate it. Remember the first time you laid your hands on Super Mario Bros.? Now they got overloaded graphical power to attract your attention with no substance whatsoever. And remember the first time you laid eyes on your lover? Now you can't wait to kill this motherfucker.
Talk about going a bit off-topic and for being too generic ^_^ anyway, in the grand scheme of things, and in my view (I'll just talk about Jaedong since he's probably the player most talked about needing a trade) -- Jaedong won't be going nowhere. He belongs in Oz due to their major failure without him (excluding the proleague finals >_> ). If he's not in Oz, then why even have the team exist any longer? If Jaedong is all they need to get to the finals, then that already makes it interesting. Lol, no one wants to see a super rigged team raping everyone up the ass year in and year out.
wooties the end
|
KESPA ADDENDUM: August 14th
Amongst the bidding teams, the player is UNABLE to select their team of choice, and MUST negotiate a contract with the team that bids the highest amount.
You must be fucking kidding
Such a joke...Korean E sports players Association my ass. How does kespa even try to pretend they have the players best interest in mind with shit like this. Its so clear that kespa only cares about corporate interests, I'm suprised the players don't go on strike. But ya it probably would fail because there isn't enough organization amongst the players themselves and the top players/popular players that these companies actually need to sell their product(e-sports) are taken care of well so they might be reluctant.
Something needs to be done though. Having a team manager as the head of the freaking PLAYERS association is completely insane.
|
the free agency is stupid, basically whichever team has the most money can take whoever they want since players must go with whoever offers the most money. that is the dumbest thing ever. the whole point of being a free agent is to be able to choose who u want to play for. kespa basically just ensured that only the big name corporations will have a chance in making it to the playoffs since they have the best chance at acquiring the best free agents.
question: is there any sort of salary cap or luxury tax like in the NBA?
|
motbob
United States12546 Posts
On August 16 2009 07:03 natturner wrote:
the free agency is stupid, basically whichever team has the most money can take whoever they want since players must go with whoever offers the most money. that is the dumbest thing ever. the whole point of being a free agent is to be able to choose who u want to play for. kespa basically just ensured that only the big name corporations will have a chance in making it to the playoffs since they have the best chance at acquiring the best free agents.
question: is there any sort of salary cap or luxury tax like in the NBA?
Except that the teams with lots of money can't acquire all of the big names because of the "pay double the existing salary" rule.
|
still, if they can afford it then y not? also i dunno how big their contracts are now, but there could be a lot of good players out there who are still on small contracts and could maybe easily demand more than twice whatever they're earning now, so paying double might not even seem that bad, but i dunno. not to mention the repayment rule doesn't apply to players who earn less than 50,000,000 won a year. i don't know how big these korean corporations are, but i wouldn't be surprised if Samsung ended up with a lot of big names.
|
Like imagine Jaedong. If the highest bidder is like eSTRO he HAS to accept, otherwise he has to negotiate with hwaseung again and they can cut his pay to like 1/5 and he can't do anything about it unless he wants to spend half a year as a semi-pro. That being said, I'm sure some team like KTF would sell 90% of their players to get enough money for someone like Jaedong if necessary. But it also means that teams like CJ have no chance.
|
On August 16 2009 07:11 natturner wrote:
still, if they can afford it then y not? also i dunno how big their contracts are now, but there could be a lot of good players out there who are still on small contracts and could maybe easily demand more than twice whatever they're earning now, so paying double might not even seem that bad, but i dunno. not to mention the repayment rule doesn't apply to players who earn less than 50,000,000 won a year. i don't know how big these korean corporations are, but i wouldn't be surprised if Samsung ended up with a lot of big names.
totally agree, a salary cap would work much better than the current system
btw, samsung khan is supposedly not that rich, kt and skt are
|
Germany / USA16648 Posts
On August 16 2009 07:16 Shikyo wrote:
Like imagine Jaedong. If the highest bidder is like eSTRO he HAS to accept, otherwise he has to negotiate with hwaseung again and they can cut his pay to like 1/5 and he can't do anything about it unless he wants to spend half a year as a semi-pro. That being said, I'm sure some team like KTF would sell 90% of their players to get enough money for someone like Jaedong if necessary. But it also means that teams like CJ have no chance.
Or he could just negotiate a decent contract with Hwaseung in the first place and eSTRO (or any other team) would never get the chance to bid on him. But yeah, it's stupid
|
This feels so like having a stupid friend that tries to think of rules for the new game to play when you got bored of hide and seek as a kid.
|
Am I the only one who thinks that this new policy was designed specifically to screw over A and S-class Starcraft players?
Example, let's say that Jaedong is being paid $200,000 a year (do we actually know how much he makes? I'm just guessing here...), but he's worth $300,000 and other teams would gladly pay 300k to pick him up.
Normally this would force Hwaesung Oz to either raise his salary to 300k where it belongs, or risk having him leave. But under the new rules they could keep it at 200k without worrying, because any team that wants Jaedong would have to pay $400k to Hwaesung Oz in addition to the higher offer salary they're offering Jaedong himself. They have to spend more than triple to GET him than Oz has to spend to KEEP him.
Now in this case, I'm sure most of you are thinking "200k, 300k, whatever, he's a rich bastard either way", but what about the A-class players? A coach can keep their salary at the 50mil won (about 40k/year in US dollars) trade cap and no other team can pick them up unless they're willing to shell out about 150mil won (120k US dollars). Can those players ever expect their salary to go up from 50mil won to 60 or 70? No, because there's no reason to pay them that much, the rules prevent them from being picked up by other teams now.
Basically this lets the teams who currently have stars (I'm looking at you especially, SKT1, with your Bisu/Fantasy/Boxer/etc.) pay their players much less than they're worth and not worry about losing them.
It also means the chances of Jaedong or Flash escaping their teams becomes almost zero. What bullshit.
|
United States47024 Posts
On August 16 2009 08:35 Hinanawi wrote:
Basically this lets the teams who currently have stars (I'm looking at you especially, SKT1, with your Bisu/Fantasy/Boxer/etc.) pay their players much less than they're worth and not worry about losing them.
Nitpick: Boxer and Fantasy aren't up for free agency to begin with.
|
|
|
Perhaps we should have a liquibet predicting how many eligible players actually get transfered through this new rigged system.
|
so... SKT IS CORRUPT??? o.o
|
wow....
kespa hits new lows everytime i look at the opening post of the thread. first the ridiculous trading terms, then the forced contract signing, and finally the disallowance of player managers?
jesus fucking christ
|
Bullshit policy.
Looks more like a warped version of the NFL Rookie Draft. In both cases you are consigned to negotiating with one team, but at least NFL rookies can have an agent to discuss costs. They can threaten to sit out too. .
What's the point of a FA if you're restricted to one team and one team only? Doesn't that defeat the purpose of being a FREE agent?
This favors rich teams so much. I thought baseball's FA policy was bad, but this one is just ridiculous.
|
On August 16 2009 06:29 Plexa wrote:Show nested quote +On August 15 2009 19:01 baubo wrote:On August 14 2009 20:52 Shizuru~ wrote:On August 14 2009 20:12 baubo wrote:On August 14 2009 19:46 Carnac wrote:
Watch out kids, we have a real smartass on our hands here *Shrugs* Weird how just commenting on smart business decisions turn me into being a smartass. But whatever floats your boat. The reason people are getting so pissed off at this is because the sports and its players which we have all come to love is under serious abuse and exploitations, ans seriously, why are u posting in favor of kespa in these forums where people that LOVES this games and the pro-gamers? when it is obvious that kespa is fucking screwing up the players? No need for fairness? what u like seeing Jaedong/Bisu or whoever u like being tossed around like slaves? Tell me this, DO U NOT CARE ABOUT THE PLAYERS OTHER THAN THE GAMES THEY PLAY ON TV? u don't give a shit as long they give u good entertaintment yes? I got so furious reading that players aren't even allowed to pick whichever teams they like to go, and they still have the balls to call it FREE AGENTS, when they can't even employ an agent to represent them? fuck this shit seriously, why are they all not on strike right now? They could strike... and they'd fail hard. This is a prime example of a business situation where one side having all the leverage and power. It's a very extreme case, which is what really grabbed my attention. Do I dislike it? Of course I do. But I look at what recourse the players have, and I can't find any. They are screwed because they have no power. Yea I agree. At the end of the day you would expect their coaches to at least try and bring about better rights for the players. But when you find out that the SKT Coach is the head of KeSPA you just are lost for words... (other coaches are on kespa as well)
WTF? I didn't know that. So basically Kespa is made of coaches... who are paid by teams and therefore are only loyal to their teams.
Anyway, the fact that the head of SKT is also the head of Kespa makes it understandable why the rules favor rich teams so much.
|
51397 Posts
lol coaches/managers have nothing to do with kespa, it's all run by the chairmans of the companies
|
On August 16 2009 10:53 GTR wrote:
lol coaches/managers have nothing to do with kespa, it's all run by the chairmans of the companies
That still doesn't make things any better. Chairmans of richer companies have a greater influence on KESPA than those with less money.
|
We really need to have an "Atlas Shrugged" team headed up by Flash and Jaedong.
|
On August 16 2009 11:00 Apex wrote:Show nested quote +On August 16 2009 10:53 GTR wrote:
lol coaches/managers have nothing to do with kespa, it's all run by the chairmans of the companies That still doesn't make things any better. Chairmans of richer companies have a greater influence on KESPA than those with less money.
and none of them care about the players
|
On August 16 2009 07:35 Carnac wrote:Show nested quote +On August 16 2009 07:16 Shikyo wrote:
Like imagine Jaedong. If the highest bidder is like eSTRO he HAS to accept, otherwise he has to negotiate with hwaseung again and they can cut his pay to like 1/5 and he can't do anything about it unless he wants to spend half a year as a semi-pro. That being said, I'm sure some team like KTF would sell 90% of their players to get enough money for someone like Jaedong if necessary. But it also means that teams like CJ have no chance. Or he could just negotiate a decent contract with Hwaseung in the first place and eSTRO (or any other team) would never get the chance to bid on him. But yeah, it's stupid
So you never thought that maybe Jaedong might deserve a better team? Of course you don't start seeking a new one if you're happy with your current one -_- If he wants to stay on Hwaseung what's the point. That was in the case he actually like, wanted to play in another team.
|
Oz is a good team...Jaedong is not in the same situation as someone like Flash. Of course Oz depends on Jaedong, hes their ace, but at least Oz has decent preforming players. Proleague finals day 2 is a good example.
|
On August 16 2009 11:13 TheFoReveRwaR wrote:
Oz is a good team...Jaedong is not in the same situation as someone like Flash. Of course Oz depends on Jaedong, hes their ace, but at least Oz has decent preforming players. Proleague finals day 2 is a good example.
Since when does a one shot day have any meaning in starcraft at all?
Oz players in Ro5 have actually been preforming nothing short of terrible... at least on KTF people like Violet started stepping up to the plate.
|
On August 16 2009 11:24 Jayme wrote:Show nested quote +On August 16 2009 11:13 TheFoReveRwaR wrote:
Oz is a good team...Jaedong is not in the same situation as someone like Flash. Of course Oz depends on Jaedong, hes their ace, but at least Oz has decent preforming players. Proleague finals day 2 is a good example. Since when does a one shot day have any meaning in starcraft at all? Oz players in Ro5 have actually been preforming nothing short of terrible... at least on KTF people like Violet started stepping up to the plate.
But then how do u explaint that KT finished 7 and Oz 2?
Oz doesnt sux.. its just that Jaedong is to fucking good... like flash but even better.
BackHo, Lomo and Hiya maybe arent like Bisu with fantasy and canata but they give they get the enough wins to let JD do the rest (not like KT).
Just because they sucked on the last round they suck general... on the winners league Hiya was the second player and got 3 wins like 3 nights and 1 all kill.
Thats just 1 example.
|
|
|
1. The free agency period shouldn't be broken down into sections telling the players when they can and can't negotiate with whom... make it one week where the player can talk to any team at any time, and has to sign by the end of it.
2. The repayment policy is bullshit if the player's aren't already on contract. The point of free agency is that the player is free and no longer bound by contract. So... wtf
|
|
|
|
|
kespa is fail.
good thing sc2 is going to be run by blizzard.
|
I've been ordered by Carnac to move my poll too this thread instead. So here goes:
Poll: What's your oppinion on Kespa's Free Agent rules!?
(Vote): Too complicated, I don't understand a thing.
(Vote): Sounds resonable.
(Vote): I think Kespa should add more rules.
(Vote): GG! The players are being owned by Kespa!
(Vote): Tragic, but thanks for the info!
(Vote): It's neccesary for Kespa to keep some sort of control.
(Vote): How far has those plans of that ddos attack come?
(Vote): I just wanna watch another jaedong-vod :-(
Tell Kespa your oppinion!
|
Are you sure that's not a mistranslation or something? Or there has to be at least some rule to prevent the 1 trillion won over 1 trillion years situation.
|
How do other sports (like for example baseball/basketball in particular) manage players and contracts and switching teams? I'd like to know to be able to draw a comparison between these methods and Kespa methods.
But oh well if I still can't understand, might as well forget about it and just see who ends up where! 
|
51397 Posts
On August 24 2009 16:17 General Nuke Em wrote:
Are you sure that's not a mistranslation or something? Or there has to be at least some rule to prevent the 1 trillion won over 1 trillion years situation.
Max contract length is 3 years.
|
Kespa #1 on the PR next month?
Seriously, the "Free Agency" system worked to perfection from teams standpoint. Notice that player salaries are basically going down. And Oz is going to get away with paying Jaedong about 70% of what the likes of Savior and Nada were getting during their heydays. Only player to get bid on is freaking go.go.
I've never seen such rape of players by the teams in any other sports.
|
So, as of this point no team made a bid on jaedong? and that means he must sign with Oz or quit?
can someone confirm this?
|
thedeadhaji
39489 Posts
ROOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOFL
Players are forbidden from employing agents
HAHAHHAHAHA WHAT A FUCKING JOKE
Sometimes I'm glad I hardly follow progaming anymore.
|
I have the feeling that Kespa will move up to first place in Power Rank soon enough...
|
On August 25 2009 23:58 thedeadhaji wrote:
ROOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOFL
Players are forbidden from employing agents
HAHAHHAHAHA WHAT A FUCKING JOKE
Sometimes I'm glad I hardly follow progaming anymore.
man, really hating kespa....
|
On August 25 2009 23:58 thedeadhaji wrote:
ROOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOFL
Players are forbidden from employing agents
HAHAHHAHAHA WHAT A FUCKING JOKE
Sometimes I'm glad I hardly follow progaming anymore.
My thoughts exactly, shit.
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
