In both of these games he made horrible decisions with his lings. Its almost like he didn't care. Maybe he is getting tired of carrying OZ on his back? Did a coach piss him off? I hope this suicide mission ends before his next GOM/OSL/MSL matches.
Your thoughts TL?
Edit: Its not about jaedong slumping, in fact just talking about one of these 2 games is worth a discussion. "The best player in the world" made a D level mistake and to make matters worse he diid it twice in a row. Why? I would like to think there is something behind it. Responses like "don't worry about it" or "zomg jaedong is slumping because he lost 2 games -> get over it" is not a response intended for this thread.
OZ doesn't need to win those games, and the coach realizes that so he's giving Jaedong more time to practice for his 3 starleagues where he will face the likes of bisu, fantasy, and effort.
On July 08 2009 14:09 Sigrun wrote: His game tonight versus Yarnc will help clear things up a bit.
Not really, he could drop this game to eliminate Flash and also because it's ZvZ. Why doesn't Bisu get a thread like this? Geez, people need to stop overreacting when Jaedong loses.
On July 08 2009 14:09 FragKrag wrote: OZ doesn't need to win those games, and the coach realizes that so he's giving Jaedong more time to practice for his 3 starleagues where he will face the likes of bisu, fantasy, and effort.
He's not slumping by any means.
Good point, but just to throw games away like that.... Especially vs light, the decision to try to break the entrance was horrible, and very unlike jaedong. He still has his kespa ranking to worry about and fans to keep happy.
On July 08 2009 14:09 Sigrun wrote: His game tonight versus Yarnc will help clear things up a bit.
Not really, he could drop this game to eliminate Flash and also because it's ZvZ. Why doesn't Bisu get a thread like this? Geez, people need to stop overreacting when Jaedong loses.
What I meant was to watch how Jaedong played, as in whether or not he makes poor decisions and suicides his Zerglings.
Also, why would he drop his game on purpose? Beating Yarnc allows him to advance uncontested, and if he dropped his game in an unconvincing fashion, Flash could simply throw his game versus Effort in retaliation to force Jaedong into tie-breakers, which Jaedong might or might not advance out of.
From what I've gathered from interviews, the relationship between Flash and Jaedong isn't one of spite.
Not condoning his losses, but I would rather he drop two PL games when his team is a lock for the 2nd seed and concentrate on his individual leagues more than vice-versa. I see ur point Sigurn.
Indeed. There's no way Jaedong can possibly lose two games in a row. It's just impossible. Stork and Light must've had some incriminating photos of Jaedong and forced him to suck.
That said, if Jaedong loses to Yarnc, it would be a strategical loss. No way you let Flash advance if you can have Yarnc do so intead.
On July 08 2009 14:09 FragKrag wrote: OZ doesn't need to win those games.
Actually, they do. The difference between the #1 seed and the #2 seed is huge.
On July 08 2009 14:10 T.O.P. wrote: This should be a blog.
To embed youtube clips onto TL, you should just paste the youtube address in the spoiler. TL will handle the embedding.
No, he is suicidal. I think it's normal for Jaedong to lose. He's not a bonjwa.
A bonjwa can't lose? But yes, I agree with the point that dropping 2 games is not a big deal. It's actually a pretty big complement to Jaedong that someone can't understand how he lost 2 games...
On July 08 2009 14:19 baubo wrote: Indeed. There's no way Jaedong can possibly lose two games in a row. It's just impossible. Stork and Light must've had some incriminating photos of Jaedong and forced him to suck.
That said, if Jaedong loses to Yarnc, it would be a strategical loss. No way you let Flash advance if you can have Yarnc do so intead.
On July 08 2009 14:09 FragKrag wrote: OZ doesn't need to win those games, and the coach realizes that so he's giving Jaedong more time to practice for his 3 starleagues where he will face the likes of bisu, fantasy, and effort.
He's not slumping by any means.
if the coach realizes that then dont sent out jaedong at all and sent out some of their new players like what mbc is doing with their player ACE
On July 08 2009 14:19 baubo wrote: Indeed. There's no way Jaedong can possibly lose two games in a row. It's just impossible. Stork and Light must've had some incriminating photos of Jaedong and forced him to suck.
That said, if Jaedong loses to Yarnc, it would be a strategical loss. No way you let Flash advance if you can have Yarnc do so intead.
On July 08 2009 14:09 FragKrag wrote: OZ doesn't need to win those games.
Actually, they do. The difference between the #1 seed and the #2 seed is huge.
On July 08 2009 14:22 Avidkeystamper wrote: Well, after they lost to Khan, they didn't need to win vs MBC. Or is that still one game off?
After Hwaseung's loss to Khan, SKT snatched 1st place, although it was still possible for Oz to reclaim it if T1 lost to KT or CJ; since T1 beat CJ and Oz got another loss vs. MBC, T1 is assured the 1st place even if they lose 0-3 to KT now.
If we're being total sticklers about things, there is one StarLeague. OnGameNet StarLeague. Then there's MSL. [StarLeague is trademarked by OGN. MSL is not StarLeague].
But the vernacular calls the MSL a StarLeague. Fine. It has SL in it. This has become acceptable, common usage.
I'm not aware of a third SL floating around though. Gom Classic is not a StarLeague because, quite frankly, it is not recognized by half of the progaming teams and the governing body of progaming. You can hate on Kespa all you want, but it's incontrovertible fact that GOM does not deserve to be called a 'StarLeague'.
I am approaching WhatisProtoss levels of banal strictness but I care simply because of all the 'oh YellOw's never won a StarLeague omg wtf' when in fact he's won one (GhemTV) and many tournaments much like the current GOM classic.
On July 08 2009 14:09 Sigrun wrote: His game tonight versus Yarnc will help clear things up a bit.
Not really, he could drop this game to eliminate Flash and also because it's ZvZ. Why doesn't Bisu get a thread like this? Geez, people need to stop overreacting when Jaedong loses.
but jd likes flash, so he'll win tonight so flash can advance
besides, jd has always been really good at throwing away tons of units
vs stork on rotk(?) he threw away his whole army and was dead vs bisu on andromeda, he threw away a control group of lurks and died.
I was thinking about that...I looked at his face after the game against Stork and thought he looked really tired...aiming to end games soon cuz he's so exhausted from his insane schedule?
Btw, this is not probably why, but I read that after the latest OSL opening shot (5 meter underwater scene) he almost got sick but recovered
On July 08 2009 14:09 Sigrun wrote: His game tonight versus Yarnc will help clear things up a bit.
Not really, he could drop this game to eliminate Flash and also because it's ZvZ. Why doesn't Bisu get a thread like this? Geez, people need to stop overreacting when Jaedong loses.
but jd likes flash, so he'll win tonight so flash can advance
besides, jd has always been really good at throwing away tons of units
vs stork on rotk(?) he threw away his whole army and was dead vs bisu on andromeda, he threw away a control group of lurks and died.
On July 08 2009 15:46 lazz wrote: people talking about jaedong slumping after losing 2 games just shows that he's pretty much the best starcraft player right now.
Jaedong slumping is old news, everyone saw it coming when he lost that one game to Stork.
Stork is back in form, the Taek-Bang era is reborn! The six dragons will rule the Korean Starcraft world!!
... nah, it was probably just Jaedong focusing more on his individual league games.
On July 08 2009 15:46 lazz wrote: people talking about jaedong slumping after losing 2 games just shows that he's pretty much the best starcraft player right now.
But seriously, yes, he looks so tired. Give him a goddamn break, someone. He takes care of the entire Oz team's wins and still has to put BackHo to bed every night. AND THEN GO BACK TO PRACTICING.
Jaedong is just like the other S-Class progamers who aren't Bonjwa. They occasionally lose games in retarded fashion. Jaedong does it, Bisu does it, Flash does it all the time, etc etc. Even S-Class players can make a wrong decision.
the difference in the stork jd game just wasn't that much. And it's only been two games. And his team is already in playoff's. And he's tired. And he's got individuals to play. Give him a break.
On July 08 2009 14:09 Sigrun wrote: His game tonight versus Yarnc will help clear things up a bit.
Not really, he could drop this game to eliminate Flash and also because it's ZvZ. Why doesn't Bisu get a thread like this? Geez, people need to stop overreacting when Jaedong loses.
but jd likes flash, so he'll win tonight so flash can advance
besides, jd has always been really good at throwing away tons of units
vs stork on rotk(?) he threw away his whole army and was dead vs bisu on andromeda, he threw away a control group of lurks and died.
also that game against kal on Colosseum
jaedongs game vs kal on andromeda is one of the worst i have ever seen. jd snipes shuttle with two reavers, rapes all zealots, then proceeds to get raped by suiciding everything he has
Yea, I noticed this too. Its not about JD losing games, but it is about how he lose. He makes very poor decisions (mostly with lings) and that is very rare for him. These particular two games made me think about slump (burnout?), but two lost games dont make a slump, we`ll see how he does in next few weeks. There are so manz reasons for him not to perform his best we dont know, such as sickness, personal problems, etc. We`ll see...
On July 08 2009 16:56 Sentenal wrote: Jaedong is just like the other S-Class progamers who aren't Bonjwa. They occasionally lose games in retarded fashion. Jaedong does it, Bisu does it, Flash does it all the time, etc etc. Even S-Class players can make a wrong decision.
if you join a stream with a bunch of D- players claiming their fame as e-famous Starcraft theorycrafters, you to can join in on the "Flash sucks" and "Jaedong is slumpin'" discussion!
On July 08 2009 16:56 Sentenal wrote: Jaedong is just like the other S-Class progamers who aren't Bonjwa. They occasionally lose games in retarded fashion. Jaedong does it, Bisu does it, Flash does it all the time, etc etc. Even S-Class players can make a wrong decision.
So Bonjwa never lost games? wow
They do, but they usually rape so hard after that people tend to forget it. Last time we had a bonjwa, he was so dominant that he made people think ZvP is imba. That dominant.
On July 08 2009 16:56 Sentenal wrote: Jaedong is just like the other S-Class progamers who aren't Bonjwa. They occasionally lose games in retarded fashion. Jaedong does it, Bisu does it, Flash does it all the time, etc etc. Even S-Class players can make a wrong decision.
So Bonjwa never lost games? wow
They do, but they usually rape so hard after that people tend to forget it. Last time we had a bonjwa, he was so dominant that he made people think ZvP is imba. That dominant.
well the only reason we're not thinking zvz is imba is because it's a mirror matchup, but JD is still being used as the prime argument against the "zvz = luck" proposition
btw JD's worst streak career-wise is 4 losses in a row oO
Hwaseung already secured a playoff booth a long time ago and lost their 1st place (and grand finals placing) to sktt1. With a very inconsistent backho and lomo and a slumping hiya, there's really no reason for him to try at all. He has individual leagues to worry about right now and practicing for the pl is pretty useless at this point.
On July 08 2009 16:56 Sentenal wrote: Jaedong is just like the other S-Class progamers who aren't Bonjwa. They occasionally lose games in retarded fashion. Jaedong does it, Bisu does it, Flash does it all the time, etc etc. Even S-Class players can make a wrong decision.
So Bonjwa never lost games? wow
They do, but they usually rape so hard after that people tend to forget it. Last time we had a bonjwa, he was so dominant that he made people think ZvP is imba. That dominant.
Could the last bonjwa make a MIRROR matchup look imba? Nothing has really changed for JD in the individual leagues because of these losses and they are still in the semifinals for proleague. I'd rather JD get tired now than when it really counts.
First he "slumps" by sticking stubbornly with mutas. Then we get to see his games vs Leta and Movie (and vs any meching Terran). Now he "slumps" by sticking stubbornly with lings. What's next?
To be honest, this is not a bad timing for him to slump, provided that his slump doesn't last very long. He may drop out of one league, but that'll just make him stronger for the other leagues once he rests/returns to form.
On July 09 2009 01:36 Avidkeystamper wrote: First he "slumps" by sticking stubbornly with mutas. Then we get to see his games vs Leta and Movie (and vs any meching Terran). Now he "slumps" by sticking stubbornly with lings. What's next?
On July 09 2009 01:36 Avidkeystamper wrote: First he "slumps" by sticking stubbornly with mutas. Then we get to see his games vs Leta and Movie (and vs any meching Terran). Now he "slumps" by sticking stubbornly with lings. What's next?
He will slump by sticking stubbornly with queens, clearly.
I didn't watch the stork game, but vs light was pretty pathetic. I can understand the first bunch of lings he threw up the ramp he probably hoped light wasn't expecting it, but when it didnt work out he just sent his last reinforcement lings up to what was obviously suicide without any gain whatsoever. Maybe i should watch the game again to see if i missed something but it looked like he just didn't feel like playing a long game and decided to bust.
What I don't understand is if he didn't prepare for these games, why is he trying to End them early. He's Jaedong, he should be trying to force a standard game because the longer a standard game goes the more it showcases ability over preparation. Like against Stork, why would he try and ling all in when, even without massive preparation (I'm sure hes practiced at least a few ZvP for the Kal games) he's still the favorite over Stork because his multitasking/decision making ect. is better. And against Light... I think that was just some standard Jaedong we see occasionally Where he sort of Kwanro's himself for lack of a better word.
Yes; he's out. The most he can do is throw his game vs. Effort and force Jaedong into a tiebreak against Yarnc and Effort. But really, putting Jaedong in a tiebreaker against two Zergs? Yeah, that'll stop him.
Fuck JD he drop vs Yarnc to get flash out.... ii just hate him a littlel more now...
You're crazy if you believe JD drops a game just to get rid of Flash
If anyone is to be blamed, it's Flash alone for playing crap TvZ.
You should post that in the Results and Standings thread too.
On July 09 2009 02:43 n.DieJokes wrote: What I don't understand is if he didn't prepare for these games, why is he trying to End them early. He's Jaedong, he should be trying to force a standard game because the longer a standard game goes the more it showcases ability over preparation. Like against Stork, why would he try and ling all in when, even without massive preparation (I'm sure hes practiced at least a few ZvP for the Kal games) he's still the favorite over Stork because his multitasking/decision making ect. is better. And against Light... I think that was just some standard Jaedong we see occasionally Where he sort of Kwanro's himself for lack of a better word.
Maybe he knows that as Lecaf's only really good player every time he plays the other team is gonna try to snipe him and practice just to beat Jaedong. That with having no time to practice and being sent out anyway maybe he doesn't want to drain himself too much or doesn't want the other guy to use his prepared strat when Jaedong has nothing prepared.
Ok, well from the game against Stork.... Jaedongs zerglings failed, but nevertheless, he was so far ahead n the game anyways, he would have won for sure if he decided to get a Evo Chamber or a Hydra Den. And the game against Light was simply pathedic, but a loss like that happens even to great players. Jaedong plays risky games. He gets just enough defence so he doesn't lose, but if he mis micros a little, he is dead. I do personally think JD has been a little careless lately, but he does care alot, but I do think his workload is making him very tired. I'm in your guys perspective, Starleagues or Individual Leagues are more Important than Team Leugues. But not that many players think so... So I do infact think he has plenty of time to practise for his PL match.
EPT
